Morning Joe 4/2/25

Summary

Morning Joe - Episode Summary (April 2, 2025)

Hosts: Joe Scarborough, Mika Brzezinski, and Willie Geist
Guests: Simone Sanders Townsend, Claire McCaskill, Jonathan Lemire, Julia Ainslie
Release Date: April 2, 2025

---

1. Susan Crawford’s Victory and Elon Musk’s Influence

The episode opens with a focus on Wisconsin Supreme Court Justice Elect Susan Crawford’s significant victory over her conservative challenger, Brad Schimmel, who was backed by both Elon Musk and the Trump White House.

• Susan Crawford’s Victory Speech:
  Timestamp [00:01]
  Susan Crawford, in her victory speech, quoted Thurgood Marshall:

  “Democracy just cannot flourish amid fear. Liberty cannot bloom amid hate. Justice cannot take root amid rage.”
  She emphasized the integrity of the courts, stating,
  “Courts are not for sale.”
  — Susan Crawford [00:58]

• Elon Musk’s Efforts:
  Elon Musk invested approximately $25 million to defeat Crawford. Despite his substantial financial backing and personal campaigning efforts, Crawford secured a 10-point win over Schimmel.

• Impact of the Loss:
  Timestamp [01:25]
  Joe Scarborough highlighted the significance of Crawford’s win as a major setback for Musk, who attempted to sway the outcome with considerable resources.

  “It is a moment of reckoning for Republicans and also, I will say, a much needed burst of enthusiasm and good news for Democrats.”
  — Joe Scarborough [04:01]

2. Republican Reactions and Potential Shifts

The discussion delves into the broader implications of Crawford’s victory on the Republican Party and Elon Musk’s influence.

• Mika Brzezinski on Republican Sentiment:
  Timestamp [07:17]
  Mika Brzezinski remarked on the Republicans' internal stance:

  “Republicans in Washington are cheering because Musk doesn't have a lot of fans among Republican elected officials.”
  She pointed out that Musk's tactics may be alienating traditional GOP supporters.
  — Mika Brzezinski [07:35]

• Simone Sanders Townsend’s Insights:
  Timestamp [07:18]
  Simone Sanders Townsend explained how Republican insiders view Musk as a liability:

  “Republicans in Washington are cheering today because it's a moment of reckoning for Musk.”
  The hosts discussed how this backlash could free Republicans from Musk’s influence in future races.
  — Simone Sanders Townsend [08:17]

• Historical Context with Claire McCaskill:
  Timestamp [09:27]
  Claire McCaskill drew parallels to her own electoral experiences, emphasizing the effectiveness of grassroots campaigning over high-dollar interventions.

  “Talk about liberation Day... just like that judge up in Wisconsin.”
  — Claire McCaskill [09:26]

3. Special Elections in Florida and MAGA Backlash

The conversation shifts to recent special elections in Florida, highlighting Republican underperformance and a broader MAGA backlash.

• Wall Street Journal’s Perspective:
  Timestamp [12:35]
  Joe Scarborough summarized a Wall Street Journal editorial titled “The MAGA Backlash Arrives,” noting:

  “The comfortable win by Democratic Judge Susan Crawford is the second sign in two weeks of a political backlash against the Trump presidency.”
  This indicates growing resistance within the GOP against Trump and Musk’s influence.

• Florida Special Elections Results:
  Timestamp [16:35]
  The hosts discussed how Republicans held two House seats in Florida but with significantly reduced margins:

  • Randy Fine’s Victory:
    Reduced from a 33-point to a 14-point win.
  • Jimmy Petronas’s Victory:
    Dropped from a 32-point to a 14-point margin, with Escambia County flipping blue—a county that hadn’t voted Democrat since 1960.

  Mika Brzezinski connected these outcomes to dissatisfaction with Musk’s interventions:

  “It's about Elon Musk... tariffs, it's about all of these things, you know, put all together.”
  — Mika Brzezinski [16:35]

4. President Trump’s “Liberation Day Tariffs”

Joe Scarborough briefly mentions upcoming developments regarding President Trump’s tariff plans.

• Anticipation of Tariff Announcement:
  Timestamp [04:01]
  Scarborough previewed an upcoming segment on Trump’s “Liberation Day tariffs” and their potential economic impact.

5. Immigration Policies and Deportation Mistakes

A significant portion of the episode addresses the Trump administration’s contentious immigration policies, focusing on recent deportation errors and lack of due process.

• Case Studies of Deportation Errors:

  • Women Accidentally Deported to El Salvador:
    Two women, Hemar Moya Tones and Scarlet Rodriguez, were mistakenly deported to El Salvador despite having no criminal history.
    — Transcript Excerpts [34:01 – 35:55]

• Critique of Administration’s Handling:
  Timestamp [24:36]
  The hosts criticized the administration for poor handling and communication regarding deportations:

  “Whoever heard of sending someone potentially for a life sentence in El Salvador without giving them any due process to show they don't belong?”
  — Willie Geist [26:06]

• Implications for Due Process:
  Jonathan Lemire questioned the administration’s disregard for legal procedures:

  “They are actively and intentionally skirting the due process because they feel like if they can do it for people who are perceived as criminals and immigrants that don't belong here, this is the gateway to be able to do it to Americans.”
  — Jonathan Lemire [28:03]

• Elon Musk’s Stand:
  Elon Musk voiced strong opposition to the administration’s deportation practices:

  “You got to get scared that people who are not criminals are getting, like, lassoed up and deported. Horrific. It's horrific.”
  — Elon Musk [40:06]

• Internal GOP Concerns:
  Claire McCaskill emphasized bipartisan discomfort with current policies:

  “These are people, Republicans who may have lost their jobs or their neighbor or a family member lost their jobs. This stuff is hitting people. They're feeling it and they don't like what they see.”
  — Claire McCaskill [36:35]

6. Senator Cory Booker’s Historic Floor Speech

The episode concludes with coverage of Senator Cory Booker’s record-breaking Senate speech.

• Booker’s Marathon Speech:
  Timestamp [45:00]
  Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey delivered a 25-hour and 4-minute continuous floor speech, setting a new Senate record previously held by Senator Strom Thurmond. Booker’s speech protested against the Trump administration’s sweeping new policies, particularly those related to immigration and civil rights.

• Booker’s Closing Remarks:

  “This is a moral moment. It's not left or right, it's right or wrong.”
  — Cory Booker [47:13]

---

Key Takeaways

• Elon Musk’s Political Ambitions Backfired:
  Despite significant financial investments, Musk’s efforts to influence the Wisconsin Supreme Court race and other Republican races appear to be alienating traditional GOP allies and contributing to a broader MAGA backlash.

• Republican Party’s Potential Shift:
  The backlash against Musk and Trump’s policies suggests a possible realignment within the GOP, where elected officials may distance themselves from extreme interventions to regain favor with constituents.

• Immigration Policy Crisis:
  The Trump administration’s flawed deportation practices are causing bipartisan concern and undermining public trust, highlighting a critical need for reform and adherence to due process.

• Democratic Resilience and Momentum:
  Democratic victories in key races and historic actions by leaders like Senator Booker indicate growing optimism and strategic strength within the party, positioning them well for upcoming elections.

• Economic and Social Implications of Tariffs:
  The impending announcement of President Trump’s tariffs is poised to have significant economic repercussions, with experts on the panel prepared to dissect potential outcomes.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Susan Crawford:

  “Democracy just cannot flourish amid fear. Liberty cannot bloom amid hate. Justice cannot take root amid rage.”
  — [00:01]

• Joe Scarborough:

  “It is a moment of reckoning for Republicans and also, I will say, a much needed burst of enthusiasm and good news for Democrats.”
  — [05:07]

• Elon Musk:

  “You got to get scared that people who are not criminals are getting, like, lassoed up and deported. Horrific. It's horrific.”
  — [40:06]

• Senator Cory Booker:

  “This is a moral moment. It's not left or right, it's right or wrong.”
  — [47:13]

---

This episode of Morning Joe provided extensive coverage on the intersection of politics, judiciary elections, immigration policies, and internal dynamics within the Republican Party, offering listeners a comprehensive analysis of the current political landscape.

Transcript

[Susan Crawford]

And while we celebrate tonight, I want to share some words of the great Honorable Thurgood Marshall which I find fit the unprecedented moment we are living in. Democracy just cannot flourish amid fear. Liberty cannot bloom amid hate. Justice cannot take root amid rage. America must get to work in the chill climate in which we live. We must go against the prevailing wind. We must dissent from the indifference. We must dissent from the apathy. We must dissent from the fear, the hatred and the mistrust. We must dissent because America can do better. Because America has no choice but to do better.

[Joe Scarborough]

That was Wisconsin Supreme Court justice elect Susan Crawford quoting Supreme Court Associate Justice Thurgood Marshall in her victory speech last night. She told her supporters, quote, courts are not for sale. After Elon Musk spent millions in the race trying to defeat her. The Trump White House says there's nothing to see here, but the Wall Street Journal editorial board says there is. Dig into that.

[Mika Brzezinski]

And also, Jonathan, didn't Elon Musk say just a couple of days ago that Western civilization would rise or fall with this election if, if Democrats didn't lose?

[Willie Geist]

He said humanity's destiny rises, rides on that particular seat. So grand stakes. He was clearly willing to go all in, make this a referend. And they lost.

[Mika Brzezinski]

I mean, it's hard, Willie, to under, understate what a massive victory this was for him and what a massive loss it was for Elon Musk. I mean, Elon Musk put himself front and center. I think it's safe to say after last night in Wisconsin, the heat shield has melted. It did not hold together coming back into Earth's atmosphere. And man, again, just, just think Wisconsin, media wise, it's a small state. He spent tens of millions of his own dollars handing out million dollar checks. I mean, they went all in on this race and lost big double digits.

[Claire McCaskill]

Lost by 10 points in a race that was decided by less than one point in November, the presidential race with Donald Trump on the ballot, less than 1 percentage point, less than 30,000 votes last night, by the way. Big, big turnout too. If you look at the numbers there. About 2.3 million people turned out and Democrats turned out. If you talk privately to Republicans, they believe a lot of that was anti Elon Musk when he's out there jumping around on stage with a cheese head. Nobody was buying that act and they did feel like he stepped in with $20 million of his own money to try and buy that seat and it backfired.

[Mika Brzezinski]

I mean, Wisconsin clearly said we are not for sale. And yeah, big, and we'll talk about the Florida races too. I've just got to say in my own, in my own old district, I was the first Republican to win my Pensacola and Escambi county since Reconstruction. No Democrat has won that county since then. Since 1994, none in any federal race for Congress, House, whatever. Last night you were there, I got a call and my old chief of staff going, you need to look at the Escambia county, the results. Results interesting. I mean it's just, it's the, it's the deepest red part of Florida and it went blue.

[Joe Scarborough]

To all of this crazy. Hours from now, President Trump will announce his so called Liberation day tariffs. Our experts are standing by to break down what to expect with that. Along with Joe Willie, Jonathan Lemire and me, we have Ms. MSNBC host Simone Sanders Townsend and NBC News and MSNBC political analyst, former U.S. senator Claire McCaskill. Thank you everybody. Everyone's been up all night watching everything. In a blow to President Trump and billionaire Elon Musk, the Democratic candidate for Wisconsin's Supreme Court, Susan Crawford, has defeated her conservative challenger, allowing liberals to maintain a narrow majority on the battleground state's highest court. Crawford, a circuit court judge, secured a 10 year term over Brad Schimmel who was backed by both Trump and Musk. The outcome a major setback for Musk, who spent $25 million and personally campaigned in the state in an effort to defeat Crawford. Crawford spoke about her win last night.

[Susan Crawford]

I know how glad you are to see the TV ads end. So today, Wisconsinites fended off an unprecedented attack on our democracy, our fair elections and our Supreme Court. And Wisconsin stood up and said loudly that justice does not have a price. Our courts are not for sale. As a little girl growing up in Chippewa Falls, I never could have imagined that I'd be taking on the richest man in the world for justice in Wisconsin. And we won.

[Claire McCaskill]

That is Susan Crawford who won by 10 points last night. Claire McCaskill. We hesitate to read too much into one night in Wisconsin in an off year, but what does it tell you so far in these early days of the Trump administration?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Well, understand that the ads up there were about two things. The Republicans ads were I'm Donald Trump, Donald Trump loves me. Vote for me because you love Donald Trump. And the Democrats ads were vote for me because you do not want to sell Wisconsin to Elon Musk. So it was really a one, two punch because Trump wasn't enough and Musk was a big problem. And here is the dirty little secret. There are Republicans in Washington cheering Today they, many of them behind the scenes were saying, we are okay with losing this Wisconsin Supreme Court seat because it's time we take Musk down a peg. He needs to be put in his place. Trump needs to realize that he's hurting him. And I really think that the Democrats are excited today and feel energized by.

[Joe Scarborough]

A lot of things.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Mike Johnson got whipped yesterday on the floor of the House. Cory Booker stood up and did brave things. We won Wisconsin and Florida was closer than it should have been. But the Republicans in Washington are also cheering because Musk doesn't have a lot of fans among Republican elected officials in.

[Mika Brzezinski]

D.C. you know, that's a point we really need to underline, Simone. Yesterday afternoon, reports started coming out all across, all across media that Republicans wanted an April Fool's massacre, not for Democrats, but they wanted a political pounding against Elon Musk. And that's Republicans, of course, off the record, were all saying he needs to lose. We want him to lose in Wisconsin. We want him basically to get out of our way and let us do the job we were elected to do.

[Jonathan Lemire]

You know, I was thinking last night, will this now free up Republicans? I'm thinking of people like Thom Tillis, right? Who, and he was doing an interview in the hallway, I believe, yesterday on the Hill where he talked about the fact that the tariffs are not that his farmers cannot afford short term pain.

[Mika Brzezinski]

So they go bankrupt, right?

[Jonathan Lemire]

He said they are one crop, one bad crop away from bankruptcy. But folks like Thom Tillis, folks like, I'm thinking of Senator Cassidy, right? They voted for all of these things that Donald Trump wants. They voted for the people that he wanted in his cabinet, even though they didn't necessarily agree. So my question becomes, are the Republicans now going to release themselves from the shackles, being scared of Elon Musk jumping into their primary and spending money against them. Because if Susan Crawford can hold on against the onslaught of the money, 20 more than $20 million, 26 million, I believe. And she leaned into it. She said she's the one that made this race about versus her versus Elon Musk. They were literally running ads in Wisconsin calling Brad Schummel, who's a sitting judge in Waukesha county, knee pad. Brad?

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Let me tell you, the, the. Yikes.

[Jonathan Lemire]

I know right now it was bad.

[Mika Brzezinski]

It gets rough up there. Nashkosh. It gets rough. You know, Claire McCaskill, we know how this works, right? I mean, I had the Repub doing everything they could to beat me in 1994 through there. I won. And So I get up there and I start voting in ways they don't want me to vote and they threaten me. And at one point I had a member of leadership say, if you, you know, if you don't go this way, Scarborough, we're going to. And I cut him off. I go, what? Come into my district, please come into my district. I went by 62% the first time you did come in again and I went by 75% and I turned around and walked off like it was. Talk about liberation Day. You know, this is liberation day for Republicans. If they want to take it, they don't have to be scared of Elon Musk. They can actually do their constituents biddings. And when he says, I'm going to come into your district, say great, I'll win big. Just like that judge up in Wisconsin.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Yeah. As Cory Booker said over and over again for over 24 hours, he said this is a moral moment. This is not about right or left, Democrat or Republican. This is about right and wrong. And Republicans know that. And they have been scared of Elon Musk. So it, especially the ones who are from states. I mean, look at somebody like Dave McCormick. He won very narrowly in Pennsylvania. Does he, is he really comfortable now going MAGA in Pennsylvania? I mean, these guys need to understand that there is real energy. There's frustration, there's anger, there's depression, there's disappointment. But under it all, there's real energy behind people in this country that don't like what's going on with the way we're treating our allies. They don't like what's going on. People are being deported without any due process. They don't like the idea that we're going to have escalating costs and our economy is going to be in the ditch because of the ego of this man around of tariffs, which he clearly doesn't completely understand. There's a huge critical mass of people out there ready to act right now. And I think it's a big deal and I think you're going to keep seeing it in special elections.

[Mika Brzezinski]

And you know, Elon Musk said before the election, remember he said, oh, Americans are going to have to go through a period of pain. Said that.

[Joe Scarborough]

Trump said that.

[Jonathan Lemire]

He was.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Elon Musk said it too.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Can I just note that none of the, this does not happen without organizing. And you know Wisconsin, the Wisconsin Democratic Party led by Ben Wickler and the Democrats in that state, they have been organizing year round and not just for the presidential races or the big congressional races like they are focused on these Supreme Court races. They're focused on, say, legislative races. And concurrently, when we get to talk about Florida, the same thing is true for the Florida Democratic Party. What Nikki Freed and Democrats in Florida have done, they have clawed themselves back, honey, from the brink where Democrats are ready to just write Florida off. They are not there yet, but they are competitive because of the investment in the organizing.

[Joe Scarborough]

So the Wall Street Journal editorial board has a new piece entitled the MAGA Backlash Arrives. It reads in part, quote, the comfortable win by Democratic Judge Susan Crawford is the second sign in two weeks of a political backlash against the Trump presidency. Democrats sought to make the race a referendum on Elon Musk and Donald Trump. And Mr. Musk responded by trying to mobilize the Trump voters who tend to stay home in spring elections. The Democratic bet paid off. That's a warning to the GOP that the Trump Musk governing style is stirring a backlash that could cost them control of Congress next year. All the more so given the results in two special House races in Florida Tuesday to replace a pair of Republicans. The elections are a warning to Mr. Trump to focus on what got him reelected, especially prices and growth in real income after inflation. His willy nilly tariff agenda undermining stock prices and consumer and business confidence isn't helping, helping. And today, of course, you know, we're going to be seeing more consequences probably from the tariffs on this so called liberation.

[Elon Musk]

Yeah.

[Mika Brzezinski]

You also are getting a growing sense, and we'll play it in a little bit, Willie, of a real discomfort among right wing conservatives about immigration. Ann Coulter coming out saying, wait, I'm, I'm sorry, you can't deport a student because of their political views. I think we still have a First Amendment Ann Coulter saying that Joe Rogan will play in a little bit. Joe Rogan just talking about the craziness of this immigration mess. I mean they are now deporting people. You know, they're going, they're gang members, they're gang members, they're gang members. New York Times showing the reports that what are they looking at? If people have like Chicago Bulls, Chicago Bulls, Michael Jordan like jerseys and also one guy had Real Madrid crown on and they said, oh, you're a gang member. He's like, I'm a Real Madrid fan. We go on and on and on. But again, even we heard Matt Lewis, even conservatives right wingers can uncomfortable about what's going on. And you see it in all of these races. There does seem to be a blowback. We Lancaster, Pennsylvania a couple weeks ago for the first time in 100 years, a Democrat wins a Senate seat there you go to Iowa. There in late January, another shocker. Last night, the Louisiana Republican governor pushed four constitutional amendments. All four of them rejected. All four of them. So, yeah, there is. You know, you don't overread too much. But I guarantee you, if Republicans had won these seats and had won by 38 points like they were supposed to in those seats, instead of 12 or 13 points, boy, we would be hearing it's the end of the Democratic Party forever.

[Claire McCaskill]

And by the way, those people you're talking about, Ann Coulter, Joe Rogan, not exactly soft on immigration policies over the years, they believe that we need to clean up the system. I think most Americans agree with that. But not coming in with a net and taking people with Michael Jordan jerseys off and sending them to El Salvador. Also in terms of Wisconsin, when you look at Elon Musk, he's the guy with the chainsaw. He's the guy who said Social Security is a Ponzi scheme. 80,000 people laid off at the VA just yesterday, 10,000 people at HHS. Those are people who check our food and our drugs and vaccines and public health, all these other things. Those are not partisan issues. Those are people, Republicans who may have lost their jobs or their neighbor or a family member lost their jobs. This stuff is hitting people. They're feeling it and they don't like what they see. And Elon Musk is the very symbol of all of that. And then, as Joe mentioned, there's Florida last night. Republicans, as we said yesterday, they would, held on to two open House seats last night in special elections in Florida, NBC News projects, Republican State Senator Randy Fine has won his race in the state's six congressional districts. Fine defeated Democrat Josh Wheal for the seat left vacant by President Trump's national security adviser, Mike Waltz. Now, Waltz won that district by a 33 point margin in November. Fine's margin last night, though, down to 14 points. In Florida's first district, Republicans also held onto the seat left vacant, this one by former Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz. Republican Jimmy Petronas won against Democratic opponent Gay Vallomont with the latest results showing him with a 14 point. Gates, though, won that same district just a few months ago by 32 points. As Joe mentioned, very notable in that Florida First District special election, the Republican stronghold of Escambia county turned blue with 95% of the vote in Valemont is ahead there by three points. For context, that county has not voted for a Democrat for president since John F. Kennedy in 1960, even when its district was held by a Democrat. The county also has voted Republican in the last 18 gubernatorial election.

[Mika Brzezinski]

And this is a county again, this is a county and you're always looking for a beachhead, you know, and see where things are going. The Marco Rubio would always win by 30 points. Rick Scott wins by 25, 30 points. They, Donald Trump won the whole district 38 points. But, but you know, it's interesting, you look at these two Florida races, they were, if you just compare to what happened November, these two results are about minus 21 is minus 18, underperformed by 18 points and 19 points. And it's not even about the candidate. I do think it's actually, it's about Elon Musk. It's about the chainsaw, it's about tariffs, it's about all of these things, you know, put all together. Donald Trump, all of these things put together. Basically people saying, we didn't vote for this. We've had to, you know, we, you know, because we were all, you know, sackcloth and ashes afterwards going, we misread them. We were talking about, you know, this and that. The other. Well, now voters are saying, yeah, well, the media may have misread it beforehand. Republicans are misreading it now. Especially a guy running around with a chainsaw and firing veterans.

[Willie Geist]

Yeah, November, not that long ago, it is a remarkable drop in Republican support there. And I'm sure Donald Trump is still personally very popular in those counties. But this is not the agenda that they voted for. And as the Wall Street Journal, as you just read, is telling them to focus on that, focus on prices, focus on what got you here. And that's not what Americans are seeing. And no one voted for Elon Musk. No one. They knew he was a big supporter down the stretch of the campaign. No one voted for him with a chainsaw. No one voted for him with a cheese head and a 2 inch vertical leaf.

[Mika Brzezinski]

By the way, why are we talking about Elon Musk more than Don Donald Trump? We're talking about Elon Musk because if you go see those town hall meetings, they're all with Elon is not present. This is all, not all about Elon Musk, but a lot of it is about Elon Musk and the chaos and that chainsaw picture we're going to see in ads for a long time to come.

[Willie Geist]

He inserted himself into these races and he inserted himself into the national political conversation. That's what people reacted to. Joe, as you well know, that the panhandle of Florida there, that's a huge military county, huge military district. Those veterans likely upset by some of the cuts coming from Elon Musk going to the va. So it is, it's a moment of reckon. The White House will try to downplay this. It is a moment of reckoning for Republicans and also, I will say, a much needed burst of enthusiasm and good news for Democrats who were so despairing in November. And here again, just a few months later, you're showing that some of their messaging is working, trying to find their voice and getting some positive results. Much narrower losses than expected in Florida and a really important win in West.

[Mika Brzezinski]

I mean, something for Democrats to be excited about. And again, is this shocking? No, this is not shocking. This is like I've been saying it. We've been saying it for the past couple of months. And Democrats really, it's the end of the world. We've given one example after another example after another example. This is what happens. Democrats weren't dead and buried. We've seen it time and time again. I won't go through the fact that Barack Obama won in the most massive landslide in ages in 2008, and in 2009, they lost Ted Kennedy's seat. And in 2010, the Tea Partiers took over. There are 20 examples of that this century. And we just saw it happening a lot faster, I think because of the chainsaw man.

[Joe Scarborough]

Well, that's it. Claire McCaskill buttoned this up for us in. It seems chainsaws, cheese heads and checks didn't work in.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Oh, come on. Did you just make that up?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

That's pretty good.

[Joe Scarborough]

That's true.

[Mika Brzezinski]

That is good. Hold on, hold on. Chainsaws, cheese heads, cheese heads and checks.

[Claire McCaskill]

The big Ed McMahon check.

[Mika Brzezinski]

That's pretty good.

[Joe Scarborough]

But is it transferable? It didn't work in Wisconsin.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Yeah, I think it is transferable. You know, he's just not a likable guy. I mean, you start out, you start out in a hole when you're the richest man in America, right? I mean, there are some people out there that are probably jealous and aspire to be the richest man in America or in the world. But somebody that wealthy coming in and not having any kind of transparency or accountability and frankly, the way he behaves is so immature. You know, I do think the majority of Americans, not all Americans, but the majority of Americans want people who are making big decisions that impact their lives, whether they can sell their crops, whether or not Alzheimer's research is going to continue, whether or not they're going to continue to get Medicaid. They don't want a guy with chainsaw and sunglasses dressed in all black jumping, you know, as John Lemire said, you know, a 2 inch jump with a cheese head on. They don't want that. And he is so out of touch with his personal feelings in terms of, you know, you have to have some awareness and self awareness whether or not you are a popular guy. And clearly this guy and Trump both think the entire country loves them and they are really misreading the room and they're going to continue to have bad results as long as they do.

[Joe Scarborough]

We shall see. Still ahead on MORNING joe, President Trump is expected to unveil his sweeping tariffs plan today and some Republicans are expressing their concern. We'll have the latest from Capitol Hill to the White House. Plus, the Democratic Party has struggled to find a way to take on Donald Trump, but Senator Cory Booker is trying to change that. We'll take a look at his marathon Senate speech that broke records. You're watching Morning Joe. We're back in 90 seconds. All right. Two women say they were on a deportation flight to El Salvador despite claiming they have no criminal history. The women tell NBC News the prison declined to take them in, sending them back into US Custody. This comes as the Trump administration is acknowledging it mistakenly deported a Maryland man to that same prison last month. No sign of him.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Let me ask. So there was. It's very strange. John, maybe you can help me out here. So this happened with Signal Gate where the White House admitted this is legitimate. This, we, this is actually, you know, Goldberg got it right. That's actually the text chain that they had on Signal. And then you had the defense secretary getting off the airplane going, going, this is fake news. And like Brit Hume was like, for God's sake, man, you've already admitted it. And we have the same thing here where the White House admits we made a mistake. Right. And then they get the reaction to that mistake and then get pushback from the White House really strong. This guy's the worst guy ever. Da, da, da. No evidence. I don't know, maybe war, Chicago Bulls, you know, form whatever. But the police, again, 2019 found no evidence that that are. Yeah, that, that he was a gang member. And in fact, the evidence they found was he was at risk because he and his brother would not join the gang. But again, they say we made a mistake. Then they get a reaction to that. And then they spend all day yesterday basically saying this guy's Pablo Escobar. He's the worst guy. That's you know ever walked the streets. And so what is it?

[Willie Geist]

So here's the dynamic. First of all, you're right. In both these cases, had they simply owned the mistake, the story would have probably gone away and been far less damaging for them.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Well.

[Mika Brzezinski]

And they would have earned some goodwill. Hey, we made a mistake. We're talking to the El Salvador government. We're going to get him back to his family, and then we will have proper deportation issues. If he's here illegally, we will send him home.

[Willie Geist]

But the dynamic is what's on television or not. And one person watching. When they admitted the Signal Gate was real, that was a statement from the National Security Council, a spokesperson. When they admitted a mistake was made with this person, with this man being deported, that was an attorney in court.

[Mika Brzezinski]

What?

[Willie Geist]

Instead, though, when senior officials get before a television camera, they're expected to fight. They're not expected to own a mistake. They're not expected to say they did any wrongdoing, because that's not what the President of the United States wants to see. They're on camera because they're performing for him.

[Joe Scarborough]

Right.

[Willie Geist]

And that is what he wants. He does not want to say we made a mistake, but isn't that he.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Wants to do it?

[Willie Geist]

That's bad politics, per se. That's what he wants.

[Mika Brzezinski]

I was gonna say, isn't it much better? I mean, I think they admitted a couple days ago, yeah, the signal thing was bad. We're not going to do it again. Americans hear that.

[Claire McCaskill]

Yeah.

[Mika Brzezinski]

And they're like, okay, great, okay, some guy made a mistake. They fixed mistake. So. And actually I found in politics people like, yeah, I screwed up. I learned my lesson. I'll be a better representative for you next time. So I don't understand why they can't just.

[Claire McCaskill]

There was a moment last week where it wasn't just the Wall Street Journal and Signal Gate, where the pro maga podcasters who were with Donald Trump on everything finally kind of got together, said, guys, just say you screwed up, moved on. You've made this a weak story. It could have been a one day story.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Yeah, move it on, move it on.

[Joe Scarborough]

Except, and I know we need to get to Julia Ainslie, but I think it's important to point out here that when you talk about one case being a mistake or these two women being a mistake, you're actually implying that all the others are not a mistake. When their deportation to a prison in El Salvador was not lawful and a mistake, at least, are we. What am I. Is there anything wrong with what I'm.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Saying, and we're paying for it. Where is the cutting the waste and the fraud in that one?

[Joe Scarborough]

Deporting a bunch of people with no due process just saying that they are gang members. And I know people on maga, right, are going to say, oh, oh, they want gang members to go free. No, we want gang members who commit crimes to go to prison. But we also want to make sure that they are gang members and we want to make sure they have due process. None of these people got it.

[Willie Geist]

That's right.

[Joe Scarborough]

There's not three mistakes here. There's up to 300, and they know it.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Again, I think, and that's where the transparency comes in, Simone. I mean, and that's why, again, even Ann Coulter's going, wait a second, we're deporting people, people because of political speech. So this is all about transparency. Again, I want, and I think the majority of Americans want people who came here illegally, who were violent to be sent out. I want them to be sent back home. And also, if somebody is here illegally and they're not a violent gang member, you know, go through the process and deport them, send them back home. That's.

[Joe Scarborough]

That's no problem.

[Mika Brzezinski]

That's great. That's what, that's what most Americans want. Just do it the right way.

[Jonathan Lemire]

A process. There's a process. There are judges. Stephen Miller was on television yesterday, and he said, oh, they want folks to go before all these judges. And I'm paraphrasing and let the judges decide. No, we're not doing that. They are being so wildly and egregiously clear that they do not care about the law, that they will not participate in the process, in the laws that we have all agreed upon. They're being very clear. And my question is, what is the collective we going to do? Because they are telling us they don't care that there's no due process here. They're actively and intentionally skirting the due process because they feel like if they can do it for people who are perceived as criminals and immigrants that don't belong here, this is the gateway to be able to do it to Americans.

[Mika Brzezinski]

And as Jonathan said, too, so much of this is about tv. And as we say here, they want the images out there, they want the blowback from it, they want the media talking about it, because that sends a message to their base. Oh, boy, we've got the media really upset about this, you know, because, you know, they're for gangs and we're for.

[Joe Scarborough]

Just for due process.

[Mika Brzezinski]

As if. As if you can't actually be for tough enforcement, a strong southern border, and also basic American values and some transparency. Like Americans, Republicans don't want people sent to the most notorious prison in the world because they have a Real Madrid tattoo or a Michael Jordan basketball jersey on.

[Claire McCaskill]

Yeah, if Michael Jordan jerseys are a crime, I'm going to El Salvador many times over. I got lots of them. I got lots of them. Yeah, but they're still in the clear.

[Mika Brzezinski]

It's not Bird.

[Claire McCaskill]

You put your finger on something, though, which is really important, which is that Donald Trump cannot allow himself to give what he would perceive as the media and Democrats a win. Right. If he admitted he was wrong, even in one case, as Mika says, of hundreds that could be wrong, hundreds, it would be conceding defeat in some way. And he just can't allow himself to do it. Let's bring in NBC News senior Homeland Security correspondent Julia Ainslie. Julie, want to get to your piece in just a moment about a couple of separate cases here? But what are you hearing about this Maryland case? We're hearing that there's no way, says the Trump administration, to get this man back. Most people don't believe that, given the leverage they've held over the government in El Salvador. Where does this stand right now?

[I]

Yeah, that's right. Well, there will be a hearing tomorrow on this man, Willie, and that's where those arguments will be on display, because you're right so far, the government has said, look, once they're in El Salvador, they're completely out of our control and out of the control of federal courts and judges in the United States. And that's the same argument that they made in D.C. court before Judge Boasberg saying that they could not turn around those planes even though he had explicitly ordered them to do so on Saturday night, March 15, when he said that Trump could not invoke those wartime powers under the Alien Enemies Act. And so you're right at the heart of this. It's an agreement between the US And El Salvador. This started when Secretary of State Marco Rubio met with Salvador and President Bukele and he agreed to take back Americans. As Simon pointed out, this is part of what America is paying for. And so it would stand to reason that there's a way that they could call people back if they've been sent there erroneously. But what Mika presented is also part of the truth. This is one man that we know about, and we're about to get to two others where it seems that there was a mistake that may have been made. But there's a list of 261 that they could go through that we don't know enough about. Even their plaintiff's attorneys that I've interviewed as part of this package you're about to see. They don't know enough about their own clients that they're representing in this class to know what evidence the Justice Department or ICE or anyone had against them before they made those arrests and sent them down there. So even though the debate may be about this one man, and we're going to get into what might happen tomorrow, I think it's all part of a bigger picture of what we don't. What information we don't get when we don't put people through due process, either about their criminality or about their immigration status. In circuit court Last week, the Justice Department could not answer a judge who said, could you put me on one of those planes?

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Mm.

[Joe Scarborough]

So, Julia, tell us about the two women you're reporting on.

[I]

Yeah, that's right. Joe and I had a conversation about the conditions in that prison right here in D.C. last week. And so we were really struck when we found in the court documents an unnamed woman who said that she was sent on a plane to El Salvador, seemingly by mistake because Bukele refuses to take women in those prisons. And so my team and I were able to dig through and actually speak to two of those women who were turned around and put in Iced Attention. It's actually amazing, the footage you'll see here. The women are passing around an iPad inside their cell and Iced Attention eager to tell their stories to Asmika. Take a listen to what they said.

[J]

The images sparked a legal showdown over President Trump's mass deportations, alleged gang members arriving on flights to a notorious prison in El Salvador, and two women who say they were on those planes, speaking exclusively to NBC News.

[Joe Scarborough]

We were lied to when we arrived at our destination. That's when they told us we were in El Salvador.

[J]

Hemar Moya Tones tells us she was arrested by ICE and was expecting to be deported home to Venezuela. Scarlet Rodriguez says she used the Biden administration CBP1 app to get across the border.

[Mika Brzezinski]

We are from Venezuela. We know that airport.

[Jonathan Lemire]

And we were like, no, we are not in Venezuela.

[J]

Both women say they have no criminal history and are not part of a gang consistent with court declarations. She said she witnessed an official push three men to sign papers claiming they were gang members.

[Jonathan Lemire]

And there was a man who said, no, that he wasn't going to sign it because he had nothing to do with that. And the official Came and said, whether.

[Mika Brzezinski]

We sign or don't sign the paper.

[Jonathan Lemire]

They were going to leave us there.

[J]

The women are now back at a US Detention facility after El Salvador's president refused to take female prisoners. Moya Tonnes says she's worried about her two year old son left with a relative in Pennsylvania.

[Joe Scarborough]

I am very afraid because I've always been with my son.

[J]

There's now a legal battle over the Trump administration's use of wartime powers for some deportations. The administration said it mistakenly sent a Maryland man to El Salvador despite an immigration judge's order saying he could not be deported there. His attorney says he was not a gang member. Vice President Vance posted. This man is an illegal immigrant with no right to be in our country.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

It was an administrative error. This individual, who was deported to El.

[Joe Scarborough]

Salvador and will not be returning to.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Our country, was a member of the brutal and vicious Ms. 13 gang.

[J]

The Trump administration touts its handling of border security with illegal border crossings now the lowest ever recorded. A new poll shows 58% of Americans approve of the president's deportation efforts. But an ACLU attorney says mistakes have been made.

[Willie Geist]

Whoever heard of sending someone potentially for a life sentence in El Salvador without giving them any due process to show they don't belong?

[J]

We spoke to Rodriguez's mother back in Venezuela who said her daughter hoped for a better Future in the U.S. now both women just want to be deported to their own country.

[I]

What will you do the moment you see her for the first time?

[J]

My God, it is going to be the happiest day of my life. She said.

[I]

And when we reached out to DHS for comment on these two women, they said that they cannot comment because it's a matter of privilege and state secrets that is tied up in ongoing litigation. And we should point out what's also significant about talking to these two women is not just learning that perhaps there was a mistake in who was rounded up and sent there, but this was the first on camera account we had from anyone who actually was on these flights to tell us about the condition, tell us what people trolled, tell us they weren't allowed to open their windows. And really to learn also about the papers they were going to sign to try to claim that they were members of a gang without actually giving due process.

[Mika Brzezinski]

All right, NBC News senior Homeland Security correspondent Julie Ainsley, thank you for your reporting. And you know, in that package, we saw 58% of Americans approve of Donald Trump's handling of deportation efforts up to this point. Obviously, we'll see how these individual cases play into it. But you said something while looking at it. You said, not only are they not hiding from this, but they're filming it, like, so it looks like a documentary. They, again, as we're saying, they want us to talk about it. They want us to be shocked, stunned, and deeply saddened by it. They want the reaction. And they're showing that again by turning these arrests into almost like a documentary.

[Jonathan Lemire]

I mean, I would like to know who's the camera crew that was hired to film this propaganda and what company is literally exploiting the men in these videos for what? Look, I think that a lot of the things that the Trump administration does is, in fact to distract us. They want us to talk about this so we don't talk about that. Like, he comes out and says, third term, and, oh, I'm at. And he thinks he'll get signal gate pushed from the front of the Sunday shows. But lucky for, you know, well, maybe unlucky for Donald Trump, we can walk and chew gum at the same time. The men that you see in these videos that are dressed in white that the United States sent to El Salvador, your tax dollars are paying for them to be housed there. They didn't just pay for the flight. The tax dollars are paying for every single one of these men, many of them. Now, we now innocent people who are not gang members to be housed in a prison with, and they were sent there with no due process. That's not the America that I want to live in for sure. But again, for an administration that talks about waste and fraud, that talks about wanting to cut the costs and save money for the American taxpayer, this is not doing that. So maybe people will ask this question in the briefing room today, because I would like to know, why are we paying for this?

[Mika Brzezinski]

And again, nobody's saying that. If you bring some of these people back and they're here illegally, they don't get deported. They. If they're illegally, they need to be sent back home, but that'll be a lot cheaper for them to be sent back home and us not be paying El Salvador for these people who are not gang members. So, I don't know. It seems so. Transparency actually is the best economic route.

[Joe Scarborough]

And due process, people tend to like that. As we mentioned, some of President Trump's allies and voices on the right are speaking out against the administration, immigration tactics. Influential podcaster Joe Rogan had this to say over the weekend.

[Elon Musk]

You got to get scared that people who are not criminals are getting, like, lassoed up and deported. Horrific. It's horrific.

[Mika Brzezinski]

I Don't think that should be controversial.

[Elon Musk]

No, that's not controversial at all. And this is the thing, you know, measured twice, cut once. This is the, like, this is kind of crazy that that could be possible. That's horrific.

[Joe Scarborough]

Last month, far right commentator Ann Coulter posted about Mahmoud Khalil, the former Columbia University graduate student who'd been involved in campus protests and who is now detained in an ICE detention center. Quote, there's almost no one I don't want to deport, but unless they've committed a crime, isn't this a violation of the First Amendment? So, again, we're covering these mistakes, so called mistakes of people who may not be gang members in el Salvador. Claire McCaskill, I'll give you the final word on this, but it's, I think, well over 300 mistakes, unlawful acts of these people either being pulled off the street or yanked out of their homes and sent to El Salvador or being held in detention centers.

[Mika Brzezinski]

And also, we didn't put Fox News commentator and National Review columnist Andy McCarthy, who sort of the voice of the right on legal issues, saying, this is no way to do it. You can't just deport who you wanted to port. There is a process and says at the end, we are a nation of laws, not men. We are. There it is. The president, however, may not just kick out of the country people whose presence here displeases him. We are a nation of laws, not men. These are voices on the hard right that are actually saying this, Claire.

[Simone Sanders Townsend]

Yeah, yeah. And by the way, we're not at war with Venezuela. So Minka's right. The underpinning for this whole thing is this idea that we're at war with Venezuela and therefore these people need to be deported without due process, process, without the court's involvement. Clearly, everybody in America wants violent criminals who are here illegally out of the country, end of discussion, full stop. So let's do it according to our laws. It's not that hard. It doesn't have to take a lot of time. So. But the other thing, Ann Coulter's point, I don't think we spend enough time on. We have been a beacon to the world for the brightest minds to come to our universities. Many of them end up becoming American citizens and becoming doctors and researchers and engineers. And we have led the world in so many areas because of our higher education system. What Donald Trump is doing right now, he is deporting people not for what they've done, not because they're here illegally, because he doesn't like their opinion. Now, think about that we are taking graduate students and moving them out of the country. They're here legally. They're studying. They have a different opinion than Donald Trump. And Marco Rubio is being his mini me and actually giving voice to this, that somehow you can get deported in America if you say things we don't like. What happened to our freedom of speech? And I really want to underline, I would never frankly, in my life think I'd be underlining Ann Colton her, but she's exactly right. And we need to be more angry about that. In addition to the father who is when they made a mistake and is in a hellhole in El Salvador, we also need to be worried about the deportation of legal students who are here that just aren't expressing their opinions.

[Mika Brzezinski]

So Claire McCaskill channeling Ann Coulter and Joe Rogan, thank you so much for being with us. And go cardinal.

[Joe Scarborough]

Check. Okay, check, check. Still ahead, we are following the major election win out of Wisconsin where Supreme Court justice elect Susan Crawford beat Elon Musk's efforts to defeat her. So is Musk's influence hurting down ballot elections for Republicans? Plus, Democratic Congresswoman Brittany Peterson of Colorado will join us on her push to allow proxy voting on the House floor for new parents. Also ahead, award winning actor Pierce Brosnan will be live in studio to talk. Very excited about bland. MORNING JOE will be right back.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Mobland. Very good.

[Joe Scarborough]

It is the top of the second hour of MORNING joe, a live look look at Capitol Hill. A beautiful day in Washington this morning. Democratic Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey is now the record holder for the longest continuous floor speech in Senate history after speaking for 25 hours and 4 minutes in protest of the Trump administration's sweeping new policies. With his speech, Booker eclipsed the long held previous record by late South Carolina Republican Senator Speaker Thurmond, whose speech in 1957 opposed the civil Rights Act.

[Elon Musk]

Every single day, it just seems our president is challenging constitutional principles, pushing past constitutional boundaries. Every day we're hearing new stories of immigrants, some here legally, some awaiting trial, most charged with no crimes, being rounded up, detained, arrested, arrested, deported, often just disappeared. This is happening without charges, evidence, trials, hearings, without what the Constitution says, due process. There's a room here in the Senate named after Strom Thurmond. To hate him is wrong. And maybe my ego got too caught up that if I stood here, maybe, maybe, just maybe I could break this record of the man who tried to stop the rights upon which I stand. I'm not here, though, because of his speech. I'm here despite his speech when our founders said we must mutually pledge, pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor. We need that now from all Americans. This is a moral moment. It's not left or right. It's right or wrong. Let's get in good trouble, my friend. Madam President, I yield the floor.

[Joe Scarborough]

And as you saw there, shortly after 8pm Eastern, the same senator walked away from the podium after over 25 hours of holding the floor as the chamber applauded. Throughout Senator Booker's time on the floor, Senate colleagues intermittently took time to ask questions, granting Booker a short reprieve. What a run there. Joining.