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Morning Joe
Morning Joe 5/12/25
00:47:36
Mother's Day mayhem as ground stops issued at Newark and Atlanta airports
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- [00:01]
Joe Scarborough
We have.
- [00:03]
Willie Geist
Reached an agreement on a 90 day pause and substantially moved down the tariff levels. Both sides on the reciprocal tariffs will move their tariffs down 115%. U.S. treasury Secretary Scott Bessen earlier this morning in Switzerland announcing a major breakthrough in trade negotiations with China. That's one of several stories we're going to be following from overseas as President Trump gets ready to travel to the Middle east this week with a focus on securing more trade deals. Meanwhile, US Officials just wrapped up a fourth round of meetings with Iranian officials seeking to reach an agreement on Tehran's nuclear program. And Ukrainian President Zelensky is challenging Russian President Putin to meet him personally in Turkey this week to discuss a peace deal. Plus, India and Pakistan, two nuclear powers on the brink on Friday, are now accusing each other of violating a cease fire agreement that President Trump announced over the weekend. Good morning and welcome to Morning JOE on a LOT going on. It's Monday, May 12th. With us, we have the co host of our fourth hour, Jonathan Lemire. He's a contributing writer of the Atlantic covering the White House and national politics, US Special correspondent for BBC News and a host of the Rest is Politics. Katie K, president emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations, Richard Haass is the author of the weekly newsletter Home and Away, available in substack, and columnist and associate editor for the Washington Post. David Ignatius, Great to have everybody with us. Katti, how was your Mother's Day?
- [01:56]
Katty Kay
It was, it was great. I had 75% attendance for my children. So three of the four kids were home. I know, not bad, right? They cooked dinner. The boys cooked dinner in the garden. I felt very lucky to have my kids with me, you know, at our stage in life, Jo, where the kids are leaving home, three of them being back home for the weekend was as good a Mother Day as you could ever have. So that was very, I got it.
- [02:21]
Willie Geist
I got to say, Jonathan will not understand that this with children under, underfoot. But if you have like I, you know, Caddy and I and Barnica, we all have like 87 kids combined. But if you have, let's say four kids, if you get two home, like, I mean that's beyond like all star. I mean that's that, you know, that's, that's Joe DiMaggio. If you have two under the household roof same time. So Caddy had three out of four. I'm hoping, John, that since your kids are relatively young, you had them all with you on Mother's day.
- [02:57]
Jonathan Lemire
Yeah. Ages 13 and 10. So they didn't really have a choice. They Were they were there. We went to dinner last night. Certainly celebrated her the way she deserved. It was very nice. But I'm not looking to curse to me like I have. My oldest will be in high school this fall. I was reminded of that again yet this morning, and that I'm not ready for that. So I'm heading down the path towards. Towards you guys. Trying to get them to slow down growing.
- [03:20]
Willie Geist
Yeah. So I don't usually ask questions that I don't really know the answers to. So, David Ignatius, I hope you had a wonderful mother. And if you do not have a wonderful mother, tell us about your wife and what a wonderful mother she is. Tell us something about your mom.
- [03:38]
David Ignatius
So, bless her heart, passed away six years ago. She was a remarkable woman. And we go visit a little stone bench that the cathedral in Washington dedicated to her. That's our visit to her on Mother's Day. But my wife Eve and our three daughters and my three grandchildren were around for Mother's Day. And we had everything you want to have on Mother's Day, including everybody sulking and getting angry at everybody else for a little while. I said it wouldn't really be a family holiday, let's be honest, if we didn't have a little one.
- [04:14]
Willie Geist
Of course not exactly. And Richard Haas just staying on this theme. Why are the Giants so hapless year and year out with their draft picks? Just sad.
- [04:24]
Joe Scarborough
Joe, in the spirit of love, you.
- [04:26]
Willie Geist
Can tell us about your mom if you'd like.
- [04:27]
Joe Scarborough
We were two for two. We had 100% children representation.
- [04:32]
Jonathan Lemire
That's great.
- [04:33]
Joe Scarborough
One of them, our son cooked a spectacular dinner. Just spectacular. So that was as good as it gets. My mom was born about 104, 105 years ago. She passed away maybe 30 years years ago. It's sad. She never really got to see the kids grow up, but she was one of those women of a different generation.
- [04:57]
Jonathan Lemire
And.
- [04:59]
Joe Scarborough
I think a lot of us, it was pre women's lib and it was just a different time for women in America.
- [05:05]
Willie Geist
Yeah. Yeah. You know, my mom was great. A perfect combination of telling me I could do anything that I wanted to do, and then when I came up short, like getting on me really hard and pushing me, saying, do not embarrass yourself and the family, Joe, Joey. And then she'd go on to say, you can do anything you want to do. But anyway, it is. It is crazy. And caddy, I don't know if you're at the stage where you feel this yet, but I. You know, when my parents passed, it was so sad and it was such a terrible, tough transition. I will say the further I get away from that moment and that day, it is really true that, you know, when, when I think about them, a tear doesn't come to the eye, a smile comes to the face. And I just feel like I have them with me all the time. You know, I don't need to do an Instagram post. I feel my mom and my dad's presence with me every day. And you know, it's something really that I'm just, I am glad for Hallmark creating these holidays. I am glad it stops and makes you think about your mom and dad, especially for those of us who enjoyed them and were so shaped by him. But then they moved on. Because Katty, I'm sure you feel your parents presence every day as well and you certainly did yesterday.
- [06:30]
Katty Kay
Yeah, yesterday morning I put on the necklace that my grandfather gave my mother the day I was born and that she gave me on my 50th birthday. And it's a beautiful silver Danish necklace. As I grew up, she was wearing it and yesterday I wore it too, thinking of her. So. Yeah.
- [06:47]
Willie Geist
With me all the time.
- [06:48]
Katty Kay
Do you want to.
- [06:48]
Willie Geist
That is wonderful. Who's that?
- [06:52]
Katty Kay
Do you want to know who did not have a very good weekend, a very spectacular weekend.
- [06:57]
Willie Geist
Everybody that was trying to. Everybody that was trying to find a Newark and you know, we suspect you had three of your four kids with you because they couldn't get out. Because I tried to get out yesterday to New York. It did not happen. A mess across the East Coast. This really is getting, this really is getting critical. The first time we had a blackout at Newark, they said, oh, it's old frayed coils. Well, have we had old freight coils two more times? I mean, it's a. It is. I have always been the person telling my friends and loved ones, flying safest thing to do in the world. The numbers are extraordinary. Please just relax, get on your flight. You know, it's still by far the safest. But Katie, there is no doubt we have a crisis in our, our system and our air safety system.
- [07:56]
Katty Kay
Yeah, we would think you might need an infrastructure week for this one new international airport. By the way, guys experienced another telecommunications outage yesterday. This marks the third incident in two weeks following a brief radar and radio blackout on April 28 and a similar outage on Friday as well. Yesterday's equipment failure, a 45 minute ground stop at Newark, kicking off even more delays, even more cancellations. US Airlines are now expected to meet with the FAA this week to discuss cutting flights in and out of the airport. Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy said yesterday that Newark will operate at reduced capacity for several weeks to avoid further delays. In an interview on Meet the Press, he insisted flying is safe. Right now.
- [08:44]
Sean Duffy
The equipment that we use, much of it, we can't buy parts for new. We have to go on ebay and buy parts. If one part goes down, you're dealing with really old equipment. We're dealing with copper wires, not fiber, not high speed fiber. And so this is concerning. Is it safe? Yes. We have redundancies, multiple redundancies in place to keep you safe when you fly. But we should also recognize we're seeing stress on an old network and it's time to fix it.
- [09:13]
Willie Geist
You know, John Lemire, I'm curious what the White House, how aggressive this White House is going to be. This has been a crisis for 20 years, 25 years, as Steve Ratner pointed out last week. And Congress hasn't moved on it. Presidents throughout this century haven't moved on it. We have an old fraying, decrepit system. It's something that we've been warned about for years by Steve Rattner. It's something we talked about COVID and post Covid, and now it's upon us. The question is, will Congress get serious? And you know, there's been so many infrastructure cuts through the years on the state, local level especially. But do you get a sense that the Trump administration and Sean Duffy understand that they're going to finally have to do what other presidents and Congresses haven't done over the past 25 years?
- [10:08]
Jonathan Lemire
I mean, this was not on their original to do list, but it's rapidly climbing up the ranks of their priorities. Let's recall, of course, when there was that accident at DCA at Washington National Airport back in January in the first couple days of President Trump's term, the reaction was even from the president himself in the White House briefing room to blame dei, to blame hiring practices under the Biden administration to basically point the finger elsewhere. What was a tragic accident, but now, but that what we've seen since is the number of these incidents increase, that they've had to take it more seriously. And we reached that tipping point this past week at Newark where we've had these multiple stops, real concerns about aviation safety, passengers rattled. This is Newark, of course, one of the busiest airports in the country. And we've seen Secretary Duffy be deployed on a number of talk shows in the last couple of days, pledging the administration will take this on. Now they've got a lot on their plate right now as we're going to dive through all morning long with trade deals and the president's overseas trip and the like. But this is going to have to be part of the issue too, Caddy, because they understand as summer travel season approaches, if this continues to not only not get better but potentially even get worse, it's going to bring cripple air travel, which is going to have not just impact potential passenger safety, but have a trickle down effect for the economy, which of course, President Trump cares so deeply about. So this is something we'll have to Congress, we'll have to see what sort of relationship push they have with the Hill. But there they are now in the last few days realizing, hey, this is something we've got to take on.
- [11:46]
Katty Kay
Yeah, Newark, of course, United's hub. You can imagine there is a lot of pressure on the White House from United and the other airlines as well. Joining us now, associate professor of air traffic management at Embry Riddle aeronautical University, Michael McCormack. He is former vice president of the FAA Air Traffic Organization. Thank you so much for joining us, Mr. McCormick. How does America's airport infrastructure compare to other major economies? Airport infrastructure because my sense is I travel a lot around the world and I come back here and I feel like I'm coming into a crumbling airport system.
- [12:23]
Michael McCormack
Morning, Katie, and thanks for having me on. The airport infrastructure in United States is complex. It's by far the largest in the world. So as you can expect, that it takes a lot of support, a lot of funding in order to maintain and modernize and upgrade the airport system in the United States. And what is different about the US Versus other countries is that the US Airport infrastructure is heavily funded by federal government through the Airport Improvement Program, which those ticket taxes that you pay every time you fly, a portion of that goes to funding of that airport infrastructure.
- [13:11]
Katty Kay
You've had stories a lot about air traffic controllers and the relatively low mandatory retirement age. We heard Sean Duffy over the weekend saying that a bunch of air traffic controllers had actually left from Newark just in recent days because of the problems at Newark airport. So is this not just air traffic infrastructure problem, but also a personnel problem and shouldn't that be relatively easy to fix?
- [13:40]
Michael McCormack
You're correct, Katie, that the staffing levels for air traffic controllers in the United States has reached a critical level. The United states is over 3,000 controllers short of where they need to be in terms of their staffing. However, it's not an easy fix because the Federal Aviation Administration's academy can only handle about 1,800 trainees per year. So you can see that there's a big gap between how many need to be hired and how many can be hired and trained. In addition to that, once through the academy, it takes one to five years to fully certify as a controller. There isn't a quick fix. However, there are ways that in the short term, there can be things done, such as providing incentives for controllers to not retire, to stay within the system when they're eligible, but they haven't reached that mandatory age, 55 retirement age. Additionally, there can be incentives to bring controllers to facilities that have been perennially hard to staff. In terms of control by numbers.
- [14:50]
David Ignatius
This is David Ignatius in Washington. I wanted to ask how long it's going to be before this air traffic control problem, I want to say mess, begins to have real economic effects for the United States. Do you think we're nearing that point where we'll, we'll see a real difficulty in moving things from one place to another?
- [15:12]
Michael McCormack
I think we're seeing part of that today. And there is an axiom within the aviation industry, and that is, however New York goes, so goes the rest of the system. And we're seeing at Newark with the ground stops and the significant ground delay programs that have led to delays upwards to four hours to try to get into Newark is going to have an impact upon the New York region and in turn, the rest of the country.
- [15:41]
Katty Kay
Okay. Associate professor at Air Traffic Management at Embry Riddle aeronautical University, Michael McCormack. I'm suddenly very glad that there is such a thing as an associate professor of air traffic.
- [15:52]
David Ignatius
Yes, indeed.
- [15:52]
Katty Kay
No. And I'm glad you're there with us. Thank you so much for joining us. I mean, we're going to, Michael's going to be back clearly on the show regularly coming up. Yes, very much so. Still ahead on Morning Joe, Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky challenges Vladimir Putin to meet in person for peace talks. We're going to have the latest on those negotiations to end that war. Plus, Hamas says it will release the last known living American Israeli hostage in Gaza. What it could mean for ceasefire efforts. We're back in just 90 seconds.
- [16:32]
Willie Geist
Hey, welcome back to MORNING JOE Caddy. Quite a busy weekend for the White House on foreign policy issues. Of course. On Friday, we were talking about the deal between the United States and the UK A lot of people tried to sort of brush that aside. I actually said on Friday I thought that was going to be significant. And it was sort of a hat tip to the other countries that The White House was open for business. They were willing to make deals. And then of course, we saw that with China. But also we woke up to the news Saturday morning, actually good news that there had been at least a cease fire, not peace, but a cease fire brokered between two nuclear powers, India and Pakistan. President Trump making that announcement on Saturday morning. There's still skirmishes there, but that remains and has ever since Pakistan went nuclear as well. That remains a hot spot on the, on the global stage that a lot of Americans don't really focus on and maybe we in the press don't focus on enough.
- [17:33]
Katty Kay
Yeah. And look, here is the United States back in its familiar role that the rest of the world has always looked to since the Second World War, playing that role of negotiator and mediator in chief, even though we know this is an administration that would like to have more of a pullback for the US in those roles. But it's true, David. I mean, you look at everything that happened over the course of the weekend. You had the China, US Talks over tariffs, you had the India talks, you had the UK Deal, you had the news coming out of the Middle east that the last remaining American, Israeli hostage would be released, who's still alive. A lot happening over the course of the weekend. When you look at all of that, David, what strikes you as most important? What should we be focusing on?
- [18:14]
David Ignatius
The first thing is for an administration that talked about pulling back from the world, they're in pretty deep. And thank goodness, I mean, I'm one who believes that American leadership in the world matters in precisely moments like this, when you have a nuclear flare up between India and Pakistan that could escalate into real catastrophe. Who's going to intervene to negotiate that? It turns out, in this case, as in the past, the United States. And from everything I can see, the White House Secretary Rubio did a pretty good job of calming things down. They were really getting to the flashpoint we see.
- [18:53]
Katty Kay
So normal service resumed between India and Pakistan, between the US in terms of its role as globally.
- [19:00]
David Ignatius
So here's what I say as I look at this amazing agenda of negotiations that are going on. First, I see the ambition that Donald Trump has to be a peacemaker. We like to joke about how he wants to win the Nobel Prize, and if he doesn't win it in Ukraine, well, he's going to go over to Iran. But there is something to that. He has this big ambition that the United States will play a decisive role. And second, we see the extraordinary chaos of his efforts because this really is kind of a one man show. He's got different envoys on Ukraine. For example, his envoy to Ukraine, General Keith Kellogg, and his envoy to Russia, Steve Witkoff, were saying basically different things. Kellogg didn't seem to know that Trump had tweeted basically agreement with Vladimir Putin's insistence that the meeting held in Saudi Arabia without a prior ceasefire, Keller was still saying would have been the US European line. Got to have a ceasefire first. But in sum, I would say to viewers of this program, the efforts that Trump is making generally are positive. We'll see this week whether the Ukraine negotiations can actually move forward. As Trump said in his tweet yesterday, we'll see better when they meet on Thursday if Russia is serious and if it isn't, then we'll take appropriate steps. So, you know, finally we should say something about China. That's the biggest trading relationship in the world. It looked like it was going right in the trash bin and that the agreement that was announced by our treasury secretary to cut tariffs back to 10%. One measure is that last I looked this morning, The S&P 500 futures were up about 3%. That's a big gain. And that says for the financial markets, few glad that this is not heading to further catastrophe.
- [20:51]
Jonathan Lemire
Yeah, the markets have always sort of anticipated that eventually Trump would blink, this trade war would go to the side. We're probably going to see a big day on Wall street, but we'll set that aside for the moment. Richard, as David just went through a lot on the foreign policy docket, but let's focus for the moment on the Middle East. The President leaves later today for Saudi Arabia. He's got two other stops in the Gulf while there, As I wrote about previewing the trip, certainly there are geopolitical concerns. We saw Hamas release that hostage. As noted, there's still no progress there on a cease fire, at least not yet, which is why Trump is not stopping in Israel. While there, the business deals are going to be his primary focus. While over there, what should we be looking out for for this first planned consequential trip of the Trump term?
- [21:36]
Joe Scarborough
Well, in some ways, Jonathan, it symbolizes Donald Trump's approach to foreign policy. It's almost, how would I put it? The business of American foreign policy is business. It's not geopolitics. It's not, quite honestly, peacemaking and all that. It is, it is business. And what we're looking going to be looking for are investment deals and so forth. Coming out of Saudi Arabia, coming out of the United Arab Emirates, I Expect we'll talk about the airplane coming out of Qatar and so forth. I think that's the big thing. That said, he can't avoid diplomacy. It's interesting. He has proposed against Israeli preferences that the United States and Iran reach a negotiated agreement on Iran's nuclear program. Well, guess who supports that? All the countries he's going to. Why? If there's a military confrontation with Iran, Iranian retaliation would first and foremost probably come against them. So my hunch is he will get some support for what he wants there. What he's not going to get is Saudi forthcomingness to normalize relations with Israel. Why Palestinian issue, what Israelis have done in Gaza. There was initially some understanding in the Arab world about what they were doing against Hamas. But now that you've had, what, 40, 50,000 Palestinians killed in Gaza, simply the politics, even for an authoritarian country like Saudi Arabia, do not allow them to normalize relations with Israel. So there'll be some, some geopolitics, some diplomacy, but you're basically 100% right. The focus here will be on, will be on business deals and again, totally in keeping with Donald Trump's approach to the world.
- [23:11]
Willie Geist
Well, David Ignatius, let's take a step back and look, you talked about the extraordinary range of things that are happening right now from China to Iran. Just go, go down the list. And I will say on tariffs, I mean, I got reporting this weekend that Donald Trump is still all in on tariffs. But you know, this is, this is part of the negotiation process. This is what he expected to happen. And he's, you know, Japan, South Korea going to be a little, little tougher. But they firmly believe, the Trump White House firmly believes, because Donald Trump firmly believes that if you take a tough position, the other side will eventually come to you. And they believe that's exactly what's happening right now. This is not about blinking. This is about what they planned all along. Start tariffs at 140%. You know, suddenly you get it down to 80% and people are celebrating. The markets are relief. You get it down to 10, 20, 30%. Suddenly it's a victory. And your, your, your tariff levels are still 10% higher than when everybody started. But the markets absorb it and actually you gain praise for it.
- [24:27]
David Ignatius
So, you know, Joe. Well, we'll see how this settles out. For me, what I've been watching is Donald Trump having a series of reality checks. He had a vision of a fundamentally different international trading system and he's been forced, I think, to back away from that. So we're going to have a trading system that resembles pretty much what we've known. There'll be some higher tariffs. But the idea that we would decouple from China, which some people talked about for a while in the early phases of this, just proved too dangerous to Trump. The reaction from the financial markets was a strong no, thou shalt not. And when the financial markets really get unhappy, you know, presidents pay attention. So I think this reality check phenomenon has been evident in his dealings with China and his dealings with Ukraine and Europe. You know, realizing that Europe has power, Europe can push back. But I do think that we're seeing a learning administration that started off, I think, completely chaotic. And in some ways the best use of power, most precisely and urgently was the negotiations with India and Pakistan. That was really dangerous, dangerous. And they got involved in the right moment, and they seem to have ratcheted it back before it got even more dangerous. And this could lead to a nuclear war. And you need an American president, American White House, that gets involved. And they did that pretty well.
- [26:05]
Katty Kay
And as Richard mentioned on another topic, the Trump administration is preparing to accept a super luxury Boeing jumbo jet from the royal family of Qatar as a gift to be used as the new Air Force One, four sources familiar with the planning tell NBC News. According to one of the sources, the arrangement will be done according to US and international laws in observance of ethics rules. Ownership of the plane will then be transferred to the Trump Presidential Library foundation once his second term ends, two of the sources confirmed. Trump confirmed the gift on social media yesterday while criticizing Democratic lawmakers who say it another example of him using the presidency to enrich himself. So, Richard, first of all, how unusual would this be? How much of a potential conflict of interest is there? And the reporting that this goes to the Presidential Library, would that then mean actually to Donald Trump to be able to fly as much as he wanted, wherever he wanted?
- [27:08]
Joe Scarborough
Unusual is a good example of British understatement. Fatih and I want to thank you.
- [27:12]
Roger Bennett
For.
- [27:14]
Joe Scarborough
Is beyond unusual. Look, this would be a massive giving. This is from Qatar to the, to the United States. In the short run, there's questions of security. The idea that Air Force One would be coming from another country and all the considerations that go into it. This is not, shall we say, simply a normal airplane. It is configured in all sorts of ways for what is it can defend against and what it's able to carry out from when it, when it's up in the air. And then, yes, it would be transferred in what, several years to the Presidential foundation, which would then this would become an aircraft there for the personal use for then the former President of the United States. And the idea that it does, it's not inconsistent with U.S. law, as the attorney general and one of the lawyers seem to have said, because the Clint program is not explicit, that doesn't pass the seriousness test because obviously this would mean that the government transferring the plane would get certain considerations or we couldn't be sure that they, they didn't. So I could. It's hard to imagine that people would not be, let me put it that way, would not be uncomfortable with this. And just as an aside, 10 seconds, you know, we began the show, we're talking about Newark. Well, what is wrong with Boeing? The idea that this is even on the agenda, that you have a company with the major companies in the United States that can produce a functioning Air Force One on time and remotely in the zip code of the budget. The fact that this is even contemplated seems to me something seriously wrong.
- [28:50]
Jonathan Lemire
Yeah, I mean, certainly no doubt that delays with the new Air Force One frustrating to a lot of president presidents of either party. But yeah, Joe, I mean, to Richard's point here a moment ago about this uncertainty, even if there's no explicit quid pro quo, the fact that we even have to ask those questions in the years to come are exactly why this sort of thing has always been prohibited. So therefore, President, there wouldn't be concern about undue influence and the like. And I know we play the game a lot of, like, what would it be like under another administration. But we just spent four years hearing about the, quote, Biden crime family and Hunter Biden allegedly in efforts to enrich themselves. And now we have this aircraft being gifted to the president for his personal use both before and after his time in office. I mean, I suspect we're going to hear a lot from Democrats in the days ahead about this, to them anyway, appears untoward.
- [29:36]
Willie Geist
So. And David Ignatius, I just want to go to you on another issue that Richard brought up, which was actually the first thing that came to mind to me. Obviously, there are going to be the ethical concerns that Congress is going to talk about, but. Well, first of all, an American company not being able to deliver Air Force One in a way that is on time and that meets the specs in a way that the presidents want them to. But number two, I'm just curious about the security concerns again, letting another country build Air Force One for our American president to fly around on. And I would think that would, that would make most people in the national security community deeply Unsettled?
- [30:23]
David Ignatius
Yeah, like having a stomach ache or wanting to throw up. It's. I mean, they're charged with making sure that this space in which the President and his closest advisers discuss the most sensitive issues of policy is secure. How you would do that, but with a plane provided entirely by another country where surveillance devices, systems, you know, new technologies we may not even be aware of, could be embedded in the plane. You'd have to take the darn thing apart and put it back together before you really felt secure about it. So, you know, that's a whole other category of problems. I just think back to, you know, recent years, if an American official traveled abroad and was given a ceremonial sword or, you know, a leather bound notebook, he'd have to declare it and give it to somebody at the State Department and probably never see it again. And here's a president who's going to take a 747 from another country. Are you kidding me? It's just, it's so, it's so completely different from anything we've ever seen. So, yeah, the security problems are significant, but the. Oh my gosh, how could this be happening? That's really what. When it hits me.
- [31:39]
Katty Kay
Yeah, my polymer office was telling me about how he got given a $200 watch and he had to return it. This is a little different scale. So it's a plane that may come with added benefits for the Qataris as well. David Ignatius, thank you very much for coming this morning. MSNBC contributor Pablo Torre joins us with a look at the NBA playoffs and an update on Bill Belichick's girlfriend and her access to the UNC football program. Lots of mysteries there. Morning Joe. We'll be right back.
- [32:14]
Willie Geist
Final three seconds of the half.
- [32:17]
Roger Bennett
Nice.
- [32:17]
Willie Geist
Smith gets a clean look and he.
- [32:20]
Katty Kay
Hits it right now.
- [32:22]
Jonathan Lemire
That was Aaron Neesmith beating the buzzer at the break. Given the Indiana Pacers an NBA playoff record tying 41 point half halftime lead over the top seeded Cleveland Cavaliers last night. Rebounding from Friday's 22 point loss at home, the Pacers pushed the Cavs to the brink of elimination with a 129 to 104 victory in game four. The game was not as close as that score. This was a rout and Indiana will now try to close out the series tomorrow night in Cleveland. Out west, Jay Gill Gilgamesh Alexander helped the Oklahoma City Thunder get even against the Denver Nuggets last night, leading OKC with 25 points on way to a 9287 road win. SGA was good down the stretch and the Series shifts back to Oklahoma City for game five tomorrow night. Joining us now, the host Pablo Torre finds out on Metal Arc Media MSNBC contributor Pablo Torre. Pablo, good to see you this morning. So, lots to cover with you. Let's start with the NBA. The Cavaliers were a 60 plus win team, you know, bunch of all stars, Donovan Mitchell heroic in game three and now they, he goes out with an injury, they get crushed and they're a loss away from elimination.
- [33:42]
Pablo Torre
Yeah. So this postseason, this is sort of a microcosm for what we're seeing largely, which is that there has never been more of a difference between the regular season and the playoffs than this specific postseason. And we always know it's a war of attrition. Right. Injuries matter. That depth is less important. Important even if you have all the guys on the bench. For me, the thing to monitor here is simply that there is a difference when it comes to a great regular season team and a really good contender. And the Cavs are not that. John, the Cavs are not that. And I wonder how you feel. By the way, are we getting to the Celtics yet? Can I, can I begin to prod and joke about that?
- [34:19]
Willie Geist
No, no, I'll get you there. I, I actually thought we were going to see after game threes with Cleveland crushing Indiana and then, let's just face it, the Knicks being humiliated at home by the Celtics. I was, I was certain we were going to see both Cleveland and Boston sweep the next three games and close it out. Didn't happen with Cleveland. That really is, I mean, just, just shocking. But I mean, I'm just wondering, Pablo, do you, as a, as a Knicks fan, do you really think that the Knicks can keep up with the Celtics when again, Celtics lost the first two games, playing the worst games offensively they played in two years. So even if they just play kind of an average game, you're going to have your heart broken in the end, aren't you?
- [35:09]
Pablo Torre
Yeah. I got to clarify my Knicks fandom because I am a Knick fan the way I am a Catholic, which is to say I am burdened by a lifetime of guilt, trauma, and I'm a buffet style sort of a person when it comes to the precepts that I, that I embrace. But I felt that Joe, look, for those who slept through the first two games of the series, I went back to church. Right. Two 20 point leads by the Celtics blown the Knicks on clutch. Jalen Brunson looks like Clyde Frazier. But in 2025, and the question, when it comes to how Jon feels about this, as the Knicks get to Madison Square Garden and lose the decisively because The Celtics shoot 50% from 3 is how much of this is mere regression to the mean. Because the NBA playoffs uniquely, uniquely in sports are three months long and they're seven game series and actually the best team gets to take as many shots as they want until they start hitting them first.
- [36:05]
Jonathan Lemire
To your original point, what we're seeing here is that there's no good argument that the NBA regular season matters.
- [36:09]
Roger Bennett
It doesn't.
- [36:10]
Pablo Torre
It's really.
- [36:11]
Jonathan Lemire
And that's really a problem for the sport going forward. But, but as far as the Celtics, I mean my. It's frustration, obviously. I'm very pleased that they won Saturday. They won convincingly. It was a statement that had they played even 1% better in either games one or two, they're up two games to one. This series feels very different. And Richard, I will say, look, I. This is not over yet. It's, it's, it's game four tonight in Mask Garden. Yes. The Knicks regressed to their mean and you could see it in the fans. That was the hottest knicks ticket since 1999.
- [36:39]
Pablo Torre
Most on Zoom.
- [36:41]
Willie Geist
Yeah.
- [36:41]
Jonathan Lemire
On Saturday. And people were leaving early because it was, it was obviously a route. So that said, if they can, if the Knicks steal tonight and it's three games to one, is the series over? No, but you have to like their chances. But I just think that, I would like to think that the Celtics on Saturday, they realize, hey, we got to keep our foot on the gas, go to the basket, don't settle for threes and just you're the better team. Play like it.
- [37:03]
Joe Scarborough
They're the better team. And the Knicks need good games from every one of their players. Knicks have no margin for error. And when you have people like O.J. not showing up for two games in a row. Mitchell Robinson. The most painful thing now in sports for those who didn't watch the last game is to watch Mitchell Robinson at the free throw line. It is like a professional golfer missing successive two foot putts. One after. It's the yips. It is the basketball yips. It was just painful. So the Knicks just have no cushion against the better Celtics team. They need to play at their best and the Celtics need to have an off night like the those first two games, in which case the Knicks could win tonight. If they lose, then I think it's over with two games and set in Boston.
- [37:44]
Pablo Torre
There's another thing about pain, Joe. There's another thing about pain. Karl Anthony Towns, you know, they do the thing in the playoffs like it's hockey where they don't say actually what's wrong with them. Karl Anthony Towns is alluding to a broken something and he's not admitting what it is, perhaps for self preservation reasons. But it is, it is disheartening when the psychological torment shifts to a guy like Mitchell Robinson at the line. There's really nothing you can do to spin that one.
- [38:13]
Willie Geist
No, no. You know, while, while a lot of people were watching some good baseball over the weekend, the Red Sox had a good Saturday and Sunday at least. Other people watching. Other people watching NBA, other people watching NBA playoff games. Yet another group of people have been watching beauty pageants in Maine. Tell us about it. For Jonathan o' Mear. Tell us, tell us about how Bill Belichick spent his weekend.
- [38:45]
Pablo Torre
Ms. Maine. Joe is an institution in this country that I know John Lemire is familiar with. The winner goes to Miss usa. And on the line this weekend was truly millions of eyeballs that would have then paid attention to the national competition if in fact 24 year old Jordan Hudson, the COO of Belichick Productions, the voice and typing fingers of the greatest coach in football history, the person at the center of a controversy that I have now become enmeshed in, entangled in, in a PR war with University of North Carolina over whether she is banned from their building or not. If she were to win, and I hesitate to report here that she was second runner up, they did not send her ahead to the national competitions. She was second runner up. But Bill Belichick was there right in front watching all of this happen. And that I can say, having talked to people around his family over the weekend, him showing up amid all of this to Ms. Maine at that Holiday Inn in Portland, Maine, which is where it's held, as we all know, was a sign that maybe this is a long summer ahead for a now very, very, very dysfunctional college football program.
- [40:00]
Jonathan Lemire
Well, caddy, I guess we just have to note though, the credibility, the convictions of these judges in Maine who not only to Pablo's point, you have sacrificed millions of viewers for the pageant if she were to win, but also, let's remember, Bill, this was in, in Maine. Bill Belichick is a God in New England. He delivered them six Super Bowls. He's in the room. And yet they still stuck to their guns and gave her third place.
- [40:26]
Katty Kay
They're tough, those main judges. They will not be swayed.
- [40:30]
Joe Scarborough
They're not like the old.
- [40:34]
Katty Kay
Rule of law. Rule of law in America. Still there in the main pageants. Okay. Still ahead member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut will join us to discuss the President's upcoming trip to the Middle east this week and the efforts to strike a cease fire deal between Russia and Ukraine. Morning Joe will be right back.
- [41:02]
Willie Geist
In a moment, we're going to be joined by Treasury Secretary Scott Bessen following this morning's big trade announcement with China. But first, we bring to you our own global trade negotiator, NBC Sports soccer analyst Roger Bennett. He's a founder and the CEO of the Men and Blazers Media Network, America's largest dedicated soccer media company. And again, our key Morning Joe global trade negotiator. And we thank you, Roger, first, for keeping tariffs on Morning Joe products across the globe at a, at a 5% low. We're very thankful for that. But let's talk instead of trade for now, let's talk Premier League. And just a couple of things stand out. One, Arsenal is not still really out of the woods yet. And two, can you believe it, Forest? They're going to Europe next year. That's pretty incredible.
- [41:58]
Joe Scarborough
Good Lord.
- [41:59]
Roger Bennett
There is joy in football when there is darkness almost everywhere else. That is the love of it all. And this one I'm about to show you. It's almost as exciting as Mismane. Let's look at yesterday's action. The top two collided. Boston Red Sox own Liverpool facing LA Rams owned Arsenal. Poor Arsenal could have been a title decider. But the title has already been decided. Liverpool becoming champions already. Arsenal bridesmaids again. Bridesmaids who can never catch the bouquet toss. Their agony levels known only to Sisyphus. And it began 87 first. First half seconds. Two goals for Liverpool. First, Cody Gakpo like a Dutch Kyle Schwaba. Then in the blink of an eye, Luis Diaz tapping home. And suddenly Arsenal, sadder than the prospect of Sesame street without poor Elmo. Straight after half time. Oh, it did go a little bit. Are you there, God? It's me, Margaret. Happiness. Arsenal fans, you can have it too. Martinelli found a gap as big as the one between between Belichick and Jordan. Hudson headed home, gave them hope. 23 minutes later, Erdogard followed Joe Missoula's advice to tap into your darkness. And Mikel Marina stoop to conquer 2. 2 Arsenal draw the battle, but lose the war. Joe, two more games until you, Liverpool, lift the trophy. Joy for the second time in five years. For John Henry and Tom Werner, your American owners fsg, this is the biggest, biggest game of the weekend. LA Dodgers owner Todd Burley's Chelsea Went north of the wall to Newcastle, owned by the investment arm of Saudi Arabia. Football is just geopolitics. A game played with heavy armor. And inside two minutes, Newcastle took the lead. The very, very handsome, glistening Sandro Tonali bouncing the ball home like an NBA player calling glass. And then Newcastle put the game away. Look at this. Bruno Guimores channeling Michael Scott channeling Wayne Gretzky. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take this. This towns like a cold tell. Like Gary, West Virginia. They are one way away from the Champions League football big time. More large tattooed stomachs per acre than anywhere else on earth. In that crowd than it is utterly beautiful. Quick one. Nottingham Forest, who you mentioned, Joe, trying to close out on a season of fairy tales last minute against a rival. Bueno. Not a hand jive through a goal that could cost Nottingham Forest a hundred million dollars if they don't qualify for the Champions League. And right afterwards, their Greek owner, Evangeline is Marinakis. The giant man who looks a bit like the Athens version of Bluto from Popeye ran onto the field. There he is, he's like. I don't know how you say George Steinbrenner in Greek joke, but that is the man. If you can lose your head when all about you are keeping theirs and blaming it on you or whatever that quote is, Joe, but as they say in Liverpool for your title, mazel tov, mate. I'm happy for you.
- [45:00]
Willie Geist
Well, thank you. Kipling would be very displeased with the. The Forest owner for not keeping his head about him while all others lost theirs. Yeah, no it. I'm going to say it with Liverpool it was an interesting run. It was really a war of attrition. You had City who underperformed this year. Arsenal who has been underperforming the second half of the season for the last three years. It's. It's fascinating. A lot of good teams had down seasons. Liverpool of course though pretty good year, will take the title.
- [45:38]
Roger Bennett
You know, happiness is yours. And the joy of that fan base, your fan base when they left the trophy, I mean, is in Britain. A lot of suffering, a lot of challenge football bringing such joy, such global connectivity. Even though I'm dead inside, Joe, I feel like the 2% of me that's still human. I wish you deep, deep meaning and a complete congratulations. Big, big love. Now back to the tariffs.
- [46:02]
Willie Geist
That is very, very kind coming from a man who says that 98% of his soul is in utter darkness. Thank you Roger. Have a glorious day. Msnbc contributor Pablo, what say you? Who are you looking to win the Champions League as we look past Liverpool already winning the Premier League?
- [46:24]
Pablo Torre
Oh, you know, I'm still focused on my Ms. Main coverage, Joe. I'm still focused on the second runner up. I got odds on next year's competition as well. And, yes, I could say Tottenham. I could tell you about, son, I could tell you about great, you know, fan base there. But hold on, someone's whispering in my ear, psg. You know what? Psg. Yeah, let's go with psg. Sources reliably close to the situation. Tell me, Joe.
- [46:53]
Willie Geist
Pablo, are you a Tottenham fan?
- [46:56]
Pablo Torre
Look, my brother Joe was radicalized over the pandemic into a Tottenham Hotspur. He was. And so I get all of the osmosis fandom. I feel South Korea breathing down my neck. I do. And I respect the hair. Son has amazing hair.
- [47:12]
Willie Geist
You know what?
- [47:13]
Jonathan Lemire
He is good.
- [47:13]
Willie Geist
You know what? You know, Joey Scarborough called Tottenham, and it's not meant as a compliment. The Auburn of Premier League football. Pablo Tory, thank you so much. And coming up, we're going to be talking live with Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant about the administration's trade announcement with China. That is straight ahead when Morning Joe returns.