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- [00:00]
Joe Scarborough
You know, we love a good debate, right?
- [00:03]
Mika Brzezinski
Digging deep on the issues.
- [00:04]
Joe Scarborough
It's kind of our thing.
- [00:06]
Mika Brzezinski
But here's something that shouldn't need in depth analysis.
- [00:09]
Jonathan Lemire
No matter what's happening in our country.
- [00:11]
Mika Brzezinski
People still need health care.
- [00:12]
Steve Ratner
That should be obvious, right?
- [00:14]
Katty Kay
That's why Planned Parenthood health centers are.
- [00:16]
Joe Scarborough
Here to provide birth control, cancer screenings, abortion and more without judgment.
- [00:20]
Mika Brzezinski
But they can't do it alone.
- [00:21]
Jonathan Lemire
If you believe everyone deserves access to.
- [00:24]
Mika Brzezinski
Care, donate now@plannedparenthood.org defend because healthcare shouldn't be up for debate.
- [00:31]
Mike Allen
USAA knows dynamic duos can save the.
- [00:33]
Jonathan Lemire
Day like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With usaa, you can bundle your auto.
- [00:39]
Mike Allen
And home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a'@usaa.com bundle restrictions apply right now.
- [00:47]
Donald Trump
And I told you before, they're having tremendous difficulty because their factories are not doing business. They made a trillion dollars with Biden. A trillion dollars, even a trillion one selling this stuff. Much of it we don't need. You know, somebody said, oh, the shelves are going to be open. Well, maybe the children will have two dolls instead of $30, you know, and maybe the $2 will cost a couple of bucks more than they would normally.
- [01:16]
Nicolle Wallace
Okay. President Trump yesterday acknowledging Merry Christmas, made early shortages on some goods because of this tariffs on China. Joe, it's like, yeah, just get one doll.
- [01:32]
Mika Brzezinski
Well, I mean, you know, our, our dear friends at the New York Post and I know they love us calling their dear friends. It is after all, the paper of record for Morning Joe. Skimp on the Barbie, Willie Geist. Come on. They've done it again. The headline writers at the Post have done it again.
- [01:53]
Katty Kay
We've talked about this for a long time, Joe. I want to go into one of those meetings, the headline meetings.
- [01:57]
Mika Brzezinski
Yes.
- [01:58]
Katty Kay
Right. Donald Trump or anybody says something, they race in there, they get a zoom going. Maybe a whiteboard meeting. A whiteboard.
- [02:05]
Nicolle Wallace
Yeah.
- [02:05]
Katty Kay
And they just best idea wins. And today, best idea, skimp on the Barbie. Well done. Basically, Donald Trump saying, you spoiled little brats are only getting two dolls this year.
- [02:16]
Nicolle Wallace
Yeah.
- [02:17]
Katty Kay
And it's going to cost more. Deal with it.
- [02:19]
Nicolle Wallace
Rather than 10. I think it's more about more than dolls. With us we have the co host of our fourth hour contributing writer at the Atlantic, Jonathan Lemire, US special correspondent for BB and the host of the Rest is Politics podcast, Katty Kay is with us. Former treasury official and Morning Joe economic analyst Steve Ratner is here and co founder of Axios, Mike Allen so Joe, we're still sort of poring through all the economic news that came, came through yesterday and how the President is spinning it well.
- [02:55]
Mika Brzezinski
And that's why we have Steve Ratner. He studied economics in college so we don't have to, and he's to tell us all about that in one second. I do really though want to go back to, go back to it. I saw Ali talking about it. They had their cabinet meeting which we can get into later if we choose to or not. But I thought an extraordinary moment happened there and that was when the President was in effect saying goodbye to Elon Musk. And it is, it has been remarkable, it has been a dizzying rise and fall for Elon Musk star in Washington D.C. over the past, what, three months. I mean, think about it. Three months ago he was considered the most powerful person and he was written this way. Most powerful non elected official in the history of US government. Richest man in the world, Tesla, top, I mean just top prices in the world. Now yesterday he's leaving town and, and he's lost. Reports are at least $125 billion of his fortune personally still extraordinarily rich. The New York Times also has reported this past week, based on studies that Doge's mistakes, errors and actions will end up costing taxpayers about 120 billion or so dollars. And you, you compare that to the so called savings, it's a wash. You look at how he became such a political liability, this guy, most powerful person in the world supposedly became such a huge liability. The Wisconsin race, he was just crushed in the Wisconsin race. 71% declinings in Tesla's earnings over the quarter. And we just saw the headline Wall Street Journal saying it, Tesla's denying it. But the Wall Street Journal is not going to be running this as their, as their lead story this morning if it's not true that the Tesla board has began a search for a CEO to replace Elon Musk. All this, Willie, all this in three months. It's almost as if Washington always wins.
- [05:22]
Katty Kay
And the lasting image of Elon Musk's time in Washington, if it is in fact coming to an end. And even the White House has said that Elon Musk is quote, working remotely from now on that he has left the White House. Effectively the lasting image will be the one we just showed, which is Elon Musk, the world's richest man in a pair of sunglasses, holding a chainsaw, bragging about going in and making dramatic cuts to the U.S. government. Not just waste, fraud and abuse, but USAID rural hospitals, health care for people, all the things that may come back to haunt if Democrats already have begun to use that imagery, I think we'll continue to see it in midterm elections of the co president, as some people have called him, came in for three months, wreaked havoc on the government, tanked his own company, Tesla. We have that, as you mentioned Wall Street Journal report that the Tesla board was casting about suggesting there needs to be a new CEO because he is so distracted and that he needs to come home and run the company. So obviously damage to the country, doing damage to people's livelihoods, but also to the very company that made him rich and famous.
- [06:31]
Nicolle Wallace
Well, and President Trump is trying to pin the blame on his predecessor, Joe Biden, after the latest GDP report revealed the US Economy shrank in the first quarter. Trump, who took credit for market gains under Biden, was quick to say yesterday's weak number and potentially bad future numbers are not his fault.
- [06:55]
Donald Trump
You probably saw some numbers today and I have to start off by saying that's Biden, that's not Trump because we came in on January, this are quarterly numbers and we came in and I was very against everything that Biden was doing in terms of the economy destroying our country. I'm not taking credit or discredit for the stock market. I'm just saying that we inherited a mess. We came in on January 20th. So this is Biden. And you could even say the next quarter is sort of Biden because it doesn't just happen on a daily or narrowly basis, but we're turning it around. It's a big ship to turn around.
- [07:35]
Nicolle Wallace
I guess a little wink to the future not looking bright because he's already trying to blame it on Joe Biden, which is what he does with bad news. Steve, I'll launch you with a little bit from the Wall Street Journal editorial board. They have a new piece entitled tariffs Shrink the US Economy, and it reads in part, quote, the first decline in the U.S. economy reported Wednesday may not portend a recession, but it was worse than most economists expected. The main story we see throughout the data is that President Trump's tariffs are holding growth hostage. Investors didn't take the GDP news well after some recent optimism that Mr. Trump is easing his tariff assault. Perhaps that's because the tumult over tariffs and the uncertainty they're causing seem to have bled into consumer spending. The best response to the warning from the first quarter GDP decline would be for Mr. Trump to call the whole tariff thing off. Another set of people who could do that is Republicans.
- [08:40]
Steve Ratner
Steve.
- [08:41]
Nicolle Wallace
But the tariffs seem to be the problem.
- [08:44]
Katty Kay
Yeah.
- [08:44]
Joe Scarborough
And actually they had a vote in the Senate yesterday that the Democrats sponsored to take the tariffs off. And not surprisingly, the Republicans, other Republicans blocked it. A couple things. First, on Elon Musk, this is another example of a businessman who's never set foot in Washington going to Washington thinking they can fix things and finding out that this is not the federal government, does not run like a private company. And he ran into his own chainsaw, in effect. And it's just another example of that on steroids, of course, because we've never seen anything quite like it. Look, on the economy, the first quarter GDP number was a little bit illusory. It was very messed up by some tariff stuff and things like that. But the fundamental point is that Trump inherited an economy that was firing on all cylinders. It was growing at about two and a half percent a year. We had low unemployment, we had low inflation. Business was operating, they were making investments, they were going about their affairs, and now we have chaos. And I've been in Houston for a couple of days this week. I talked to a lot of businessmen, every single one of them. I have yet to find a businessman who thinks that this railroad is on its tracks. Every one of them says it's not almost as much what he's done as the uncertainty over what he might do. How do I know what to do? How do I know what to plan for? How do I know what to buy in equipment? How do I know whether to invest? How do I know where to locate a plant? They don't know anything. And this thing about Barbies on shelves at Christmas, that is going to be a small example of what we're going to be facing, because stuff is just not going to be coming in this country.
- [10:17]
Nicolle Wallace
Joe.
- [10:18]
Mika Brzezinski
Yeah, you know, it's what we talked about throughout the campaign. You know, we, people were talking about, we were talking about democracy, but I also talked about American capitalism. I said CEOs, business owners, small business people, they need certainty. And you don't want a leader who's erratic. And of course, that's now what the business community of many of whom supported the president, the Republicans are complaining about. And it's the back and forth, the back and forth. They're also repeated warnings, repeated warnings. JOHN lemire Time and time again, repeated warnings about what would happen if Republicans and the White House went through door one. And they chose that door. They chose tariffs, extreme tariffs. And, you know, if I'm a Democrat running, I'm not I'm not blaming this all on Donald Trump. As Steve Ratner said, Republicans in the Senate had a chance yesterday to say, okay, there's not an emergency, because there's not an emergency. In fact, our economy was stronger than it's ever been in December. We can roll the tape if anybody would like us to, talking about just how strong it was in December and how Republicans needed to protect that economy. And only three Republican senators yesterday voted to end the so called emergency that, that had them forfeiting all of their power on tariffs to the White House. So, so, you know, they can't go on the campaign trail and point their finger at Donald Trump. I mean, those Republicans, they own this. Those Republican senators, they own it. Republican House members, they own it. Own it. They've given up their power. They had a chance to take back their constitutionally mandated power yesterday and all but three said not only, no, hell no, we want to wrap our arms around this economy, around this possible recession and take full credit for it. And so that's what those Republican senators are doing right now.
- [12:31]
Mike Allen
Yeah, it's been such a tumultuous first hundred days of the Trump administration. But one of the great themes here is Trump's attempts to gain more executive power. And he has been successful in many ways. But the other part of that is Republicans in Congress gleefully giving it to him, seeing their own constitutional powers there in the House and the Senate and giving it down the other side of Pennsylvania Avenue, and they every time they have the ability to step up to Trump to try to put a check on him, to try to say, look, this is not a good idea, they don't do it. And yesterday was just the latest example. Yes, you can see the campaign ads. I know we're a long way still from the 26 midterms, but this is where this is going to be fought over. This is the terr is the President of the United States. These are self inflicted wounds. He can try to blame President Biden. No one's going to buy that outside of the hardcore MAGA sphere. These are his ideas, these are his policies. And to your point, Joe, we did talk about this last year and the Republicans and business leaders alike had convinced themselves, well, he's saying things, but he doesn't mean them. They're just negotiating tactics. This is just something he's thought since the 80s, but he won't actually follow through thinking to the first term where the tariffs were there but not nearly this severe. Well, he meant what he said and we should really always take him at his word. And the businesses, leaders, the markets and now Republicans are all feeling it. And soon as prices start to go up and supplies start to go down, everyday Americans are too.
- [13:56]
Katty Kay
And we should underline again what we've been saying every day. China has said again and again, we are not negotiating right now in the United States. We are not negotiating a new trade deal. So these are not levers for negotiating. Mike Allen, just to go back to something Joe mentioned, that vote, there was a Senate resolution proposed to end the national emergency that the president used to justify these global tariffs. In other words, Republicans had a chance to put a stop to a lot of this. And as Joe said, all but three Republicans voted to continue this. They voted against the resolution. Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski and Rand Paul were the three Republicans who voted for this to say let's stop this tariff madness. Mitch McConnell was not there for the vote and the Democrat Sheldon White House missed the vote as well. So it's 49. 49. J.D. vance broke the tie. So that's sort of a chance, as Joe said, for Republicans to say, you know what, this has gone too far. We gave you a chance to make this work. The economy's cratering. We need to stop it. But it appears that Republicans continue to go along for the ride.
- [14:56]
Jonathan Lemire
Here it is, an astonishing undercovered Washington story. How much power Joe's branch of government the Congress is ceding to the White House. Yesterday had Axios, Axios had House Speaker Mike Johnson on stage at an Axios News Shapers event. Hans Nichols did a great interview with him and really pressed him on this idea of you caught and fought for this job. You put down all these rebellions, you're at the peak of your power and what do you do? You hand power over spending. That is the prerogative of Congress. You hand Article 2 tariff powers, that is a prerogative of Congress to the White House like a, why are you doing that? And B, are you fine with a future Democratic president doing the same? And Speaker Johnson said to Hans Nichols, if I have a problem with this, I will first call President Trump. So at the moment Republicans continue to go along.
- [16:02]
Nicolle Wallace
Barry Bezos in her first major speech since leaving office, former Vice President Kamala Harris last night address the economy, the courage of Americans who are banding together in the face of the greatest man made economic crisis in modern presidential history. Americans across the political spectrum who are declaring that the President's reckless tariffs hurt workers and families by raising the cost.
- [16:43]
Steve Ratner
Of everyday essentials, devastate the retirement accounts.
- [16:49]
Nicolle Wallace
That people spent a lifetime paying into and paralyze American businesses large and small, forcing them to lay off people, to stop hiring or pause investment decisions.
- [17:07]
Mika Brzezinski
You know, it's interesting. Caddy Kamala Harris gives a speech and a bunch of right wing media outlets go crazy over it. I just, just for the record, I mean, it's hard data. When Kamala Harris and Joe Biden left the White House over the past year, we'd had the strongest dollar in 50 years. We had the strongest economy we've ever had relative to the rest of the world, at least since 1945, the United States did. We had record low jobless rates over a period of time. We had again for the very people that were calling her and Joe Biden socialists and Marxists who have now seen their portfolios smashed. We had the strongest stock market, strongest Dow, strongest Nasdaq, strongest S& P markets in history. In history. And there were people, as we said throughout the campaign that would be calling Biden and Harris socialists and Marxists who were driving their Maseratis to their country clubs with their don't tread on me license tags, going out playing 18 holes of golf and coming back looking at their phone and seeing that the stock market had just made them another million dollars. Like, these are not serious people. They're really not. They voted against their own interest. Why? Don't know. But they certainly. We talk about working class people voting against their own interests. Well, the richest of the rich voted against their own interests too, and they're paying for it every single day.
- [18:56]
Ayman Mohyeldin
Somebody once said to me recently that the way that Donald Trump understands the economy is big line go up. And that's really what he cares about. The big line of the stock market, the Dow Jones has to go up and it hasn't been going up recently. I don't know if Kamala Harris is the answer to the kind of hand wringing that the Democrats and the autopsies quite reasonable. And what they should be doing. Autopsies of the last election the Democrats have been going through. I don't know if she is the answer or will be the answer. We don't know if she will one day be governor of California. But there's clearly a need in the Democratic Party for leaders to start emerging who are prepared to speak up against what we are seeing now. And the leaders on the Democratic side who are having the most success at the moment, Bernie Sanders, AOC Pritzker, are those who are speaking very forcefully against what is going on around the country. And you're right, of course, at the end of, I still remember that Economist magazine October cover at the end of October, just before the election saying whichever American president is elected will inherit one of the strongest economies they could ever possibly have. And it was Donald Trump who was elected. He inherited a very strong economy by global recognition. And look at where it is today and the amount of uncertainty continues.
- [20:12]
Mika Brzezinski
Yeah. And Nika, I mean, again, you can, as you look at Kamala Harris there, I mean, not talking about what happens in the future, I'm talking about what happened in the past economically and how again, our allies, our enemies, everybody across the globe were saying the same thing four months ago, that the US Economy was stronger than at any point in their lifetime. And this morning the Wall Street Journal editorial page is talking about Republican tariffs holding America's economy hostage four months later. So somebody do a meme on that or I don't know, I try to figure out how to make fun of Kamala Harris for being part of an administration that left with the strongest economy in 15 years, destroying it. Good luck.
- [21:06]
Nicolle Wallace
Still ahead on Morning Joe, we're going to get to President Trump's cabinet meeting that featured over the top praise from members of the administration. Plus, Steve Ratner going to head over to the Southwest Wall with charts on the growing pessimism among American consumers. Morning Joe is back in 90 seconds.
- [21:39]
Mike Allen
USAA knows dynamic duos can save the.
- [21:42]
Jonathan Lemire
Day like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance.
- [21:46]
Mike Allen
With usaa, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a'@usaa.com bundle restrictions apply. Stay connected with the MSNBC app bringing you breaking news and analysis anytime, anywhere.
- [22:02]
Nicolle Wallace
All the stories that we're covering are live and happening as we speak.
- [22:06]
Mike Allen
Watch your favorite shows live.
- [22:08]
Mika Brzezinski
What's happening right now is a hostile.
- [22:10]
Joe Scarborough
Takeover of the US Government.
- [22:12]
Mike Allen
Read live blogs and in depth essays and listen to coverage as it unfolds. Go beyond the what to understand the why. Download the app now@msnbc.com app MSNBC Films presents a six part documentary series, David Frost versus on the next episode, Mohammad Ali.
- [22:33]
Joe Scarborough
You think I'm gonna get on this.
- [22:34]
Jonathan Lemire
TV show and deny what I believe?
- [22:36]
Mike Allen
Sunday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC. The last four years, the world experienced a total lack of zero leadership under Biden.
- [22:49]
Mika Brzezinski
And then we've had 100 days of your leadership. With respect, with strength, sir. It's been a momentous hundred days with.
- [22:58]
Katty Kay
You at the helm.
- [23:00]
Mika Brzezinski
And I view this hundred days as setting the table for peace deals, trade.
- [23:04]
Katty Kay
Deals, tax deals, so the next hundred days will be harvesting.
- [23:08]
Mika Brzezinski
You've created negotiating leverage and leadership that are going to yield remarkable results.
- [23:13]
Katty Kay
The reason the media attacks this administration.
- [23:17]
Mike Allen
As chaotic is because the president is.
- [23:20]
Mika Brzezinski
Solving the problems the American people set about to solve.
- [23:24]
Mike Allen
He's actually doing the things that he.
- [23:26]
Katty Kay
Promised that he would do.
- [23:27]
Mike Allen
And, Mr. President, it's been an honor.
- [23:29]
Mika Brzezinski
To be part of it for the past 100 days.
- [23:31]
Nicolle Wallace
President, your first 100 days has far exceeded that of any other presidency in.
- [23:37]
Steve Ratner
This country ever, ever.
- [23:40]
Nicolle Wallace
Never seen anything like it. Thank you.
- [23:42]
Mika Brzezinski
I think this could be the greatest.
- [23:44]
Mike Allen
Administration out of your country.
- [23:46]
Mika Brzezinski
Everybody I've met, whether it's in a coal mine or at the border, law enforcement, the one thing they say on.
- [23:51]
Katty Kay
Those trips is, please thank President Trump.
- [23:53]
Mika Brzezinski
From all of us.
- [23:54]
Jonathan Lemire
Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you for the honor to be able to serve alongside you, for you and alongside all these excellent people.
- [24:01]
Nicolle Wallace
That was some of the praise for President Trump yesterday during a Cabinet meeting marking his first 100 days in office. Mike Allen, what do you make of what we saw there? There was a lot of praise.
- [24:15]
Jonathan Lemire
Well, as I watched that live playback, I kept waiting for the president to say, stop. You shouldn't have. But remember how these Cabinet members were chosen, like these Cabinet members were chosen in part because of their effectiveness in delivering the president's message on tv. As I talk behind the scenes to top administration officials, top advisers to the president, they still say it is remarkable how responsive he is to what he sees on the screen, including Morning Joe. The president continues to consume a massive amount of content, and so he's drinking in that praise. But here's a nuance to this president that you talk to. People who deal with him day to day are at his right hand. He loves the praise. No two ways about it, drinks it in. But if you're having a meeting with him, whether it's at Mar a Lago or in the Oval Office, he also wants you to deliver value, to bring him something new. And that's been the power of Elon Musk. And yesterday, he sat down in the Roosevelt Room just outside the Oval Office with a dozen reporters, including Alex Eisenstadt from Axios, and acknowledged, as you were talking at the top of the show, about the fact that Doge has not nearly done what he dreamed of. They're now saying 160 billion in cuts far short of the 2 trillion. But, Mika, listen to this. He said that Doge will go on. It had a date certain of July 4, 2026. Now, he says at the president's Discretion. It might well go to the end of the presidency. And Megan, Joe, listen to this. He compared Doge to Buddhism. He said it's a way of life. And he said that you wouldn't say who's going to be the next person to lead Buddhism. So he believes that Doge will be a legacy and he plans to stay involved a day or two a week and is going to keep his office in the West Wing, which he complains doesn't have much light. A view of the H Vac system.
- [26:24]
Mika Brzezinski
That's fascinating. Why, Willie, it's almost as if people said when they were running around Talking about cutting $2 trillion, it's not there. Just look at the budget. Maybe you'll get 100 billion. We said it. Maybe 100 billion, maybe 150 billion. There's not a trillion. There's not $2 trillion there. It's just like tariffs. I mean, all of these things are so predictable. And Elon Musk goes in there and I'm going to do this and I'm going to do that. They said we're going to take. No, no, you're not. Because there's not $2 trillion to slash and burn. And what did they do when they went in and basically cut first and asked questions later? What they. First of all, they turned the American people against them. You look at every poll that shows Americans want a government that's responsive and a government that works and not good reviews in the polls. But they also cut VA staffing. They also cut Social Security staffing. They also cut staff, staff members from nuclear safety agencies that they had to bring back. I mean, this has been a disaster in every single way. You could say, well, at least it was a PR win. Now, it wasn't a PR win. This is, this is going to be hanging around Republicans political necks over the next year and a half.
- [27:57]
Katty Kay
There never was $2 trillion of savings unless you're willing to touch entitlements and the Pentagon, which they weren't going to do because they can't do it. So they got, he says, $160 billion worth of savings. Most people believe it's much lower than that and did it by nibbling around places like the va, cutting all those jobs at the va. So wait, times are longer for veterans trying to get care. We can go down the list. We talked about usaid, we talked about rural hospitals here in the United States suffering from this. So I'm not sure where the PR win is there exactly. And John, as you look at that Cabinet meeting, we've seen a couple of these already, but this one was exceptionally fawning, I guess is the word to understate perhaps a little bit what we saw in there, where the entire exercise is to go around the table and using in many cases, wildly inflated data or just wrong data to praise the President of the United States, including, we should point out, the Attorney General. The Department of Justice is supposed to be separate from the executive branch. I think we've already forgotten about that, but clearly not in this case, as we watched Pam Bondi yesterday.
- [29:09]
Mike Allen
Yeah. And she suggests you have some fentanyl seizures, obviously a good thing. But in her estimation, that Trump, quote, single handedly saved 258 million lives, which is more than 75% of the American population. So, yes, it's good to get the fentanyl off the street, but yeah, I don't think we even need to do a fact check on that one. You, of course, seen here the red hats, most of them, Gulf of America hats, which is one of President Trump's signature accomplishments in his estimation. During the first hundred words. Yes. The focus on Elon Musk. Of course, this might be the last time we see him, maybe in one of these meetings. Although I will say, Democrats heartened by the news that he still might work one or two days a week because he has become such a face of chaos here and of these cuts that have been so painful to Democrats and Republicans alike. And we've seen the anger at the town hallucination, you know. But I was told afterwards the President was very pleased with this Cabinet meeting, but not everyone, even Ann Coulter. Ann Coulter tweeted yesterday saying, would it be possible to have a Cabinet meeting without the Kim Jong Il style tributes? So even some on the right feel like perhaps a bit over the top.
- [30:11]
Nicolle Wallace
Yeah.
- [30:11]
Steve Ratner
All right.
- [30:12]
Nicolle Wallace
Morning Joe. Economic analyst Steve Ratner has made his way over to the Southwest wall to break down the various economic indicators that we are seeing, including, Steve, how Americans are feeling about all this.
- [30:24]
Joe Scarborough
Yeah, Mika, and the answer, Americans are not feeling good at all. So let's take a look at a couple of the numbers that we do have. So consumer sentiment obviously measures what consumers feel about the economy at a point in time. This gray line going to black here is all Americans put together. And you can see how it's rolled over like that. This is the fourth lowest reading in history since they started taking this survey. It's an interesting thing that I've shown you before, but people switch around based on who's president before the election. The Democrats are more Optimistic now less and vice versa. But even this Republican number, which has gone up a little bit in Trump's first term, confidence among Republicans was up here. So even Republicans are still a long way from feeling as good about Donald Trump 2.0 as they did about 1.0. No ambiguity about CEOs. CEOs feel like this has just gone off a cliff. This is the lowest reading since 2010 in the wake of the financial crisis. CEOs and I've been around a lot of CEOs in the last few days, and we talked about it a few minutes ago. They hate the tariffs, but they hate the uncertainty even more. They have no idea how to plan their business. They have no idea what's coming. You're seeing CEOs at the moment releasing their first quarter earnings reports where they normally tell you the outlook for the year. And company after company is saying, we can't tell you the outlook for the year because we don't know.
- [31:47]
Katty Kay
Steve, I asked this Sincerely. Are the CEOs you talk to, are they genuinely surprised by what's happening here? I mean, this is exactly what Donald Trump advertised during the campaign. It's exactly what places like Goldman Sachs predicted, that the economy would be much stronger if Joe Biden were reelected. Excuse me, if Kamala Harris were elected. Are they actually surprised by what they're watching here?
- [32:10]
Joe Scarborough
Yeah, Willie, they are. And I think they thought that a campaign is a campaign, people make lots of promises and then they come in office and do something more moderate, something more like the right thing. And so they're stunned. They are really literally in a state of shock. They never expected this.
- [32:25]
Katty Kay
So let's look at your second chart, Steve, which gives us some of the reasons for the pessimism you just laid out. And that's inflation, that's cost of living. That it's just going to get a lot more difficult here this year to get through the day.
- [32:37]
Joe Scarborough
Yeah. So prices haven't actually started to go up much yet, but it is coming because as these goods come in and the import taxes are put on them, prices are going to go up. Consumers are terrified. The market itself actually is not quite as pessimistic about inflation, but consumers really are scared. 6.5% up from under 3% just a couple months ago, the highest since 1981. And so you see that then reflected in something you guys have been talking about. But we'll lay it out here. Here, which are the polls. 39% approval rating for Trump, lowest going all the way back to somewhere before Nixon, maybe LBJ at the height of the Vietnam War, who knows? But for a very, very long time, lower than where Trump was last time at this point, first hundred days, and actually lower than where Joe Biden was after his first hundred days.
- [33:27]
Mika Brzezinski
You know, Steve, I just want to go back. You said these CEOs, these captains of industry, these, these wizards of Wall street are stunned. They are stunned that Donald Trump is doing what he said he was going to do since 1987, that he's doing what we said he was going to do. We kept warning about, you know, if you like certainty, this is not the way to go. He's going to really, really lean into the tariffs. He said tariffs is the most beautiful word in the English lane. I just. How could they have deluded themselves that he was going to come in and be Eisenhower? He never was going to be Eisenhower. He promised them every day on the campaign trail that this is exactly what he was going to do. So how can they sit back going, oh, my God, I can't believe he said he. I can't believe he's doing what he said he was going to do since 1987.
- [34:28]
Joe Scarborough
You know, Joe, it's a great question. I think there's a combination of reasons, and I'm not here to defend or explain it even, but I'll try to put myself in their head for you. Trump 1.0 had some tariffs, but they were far more modest than this. They caused much less chaos. Politicians say a lot of things on the campaign trail. And honestly, just what Trump did here has done here with the tariffs is just so far over the top. It just never occurred to them. I shouldn't say never occurred. They never believed that we could have 154% tariffs on things from China, meaning effectively, those toys will not be on the shelves at Christmas.
- [35:04]
Nicolle Wallace
So, Steve, moving forward, President Trump said that Biden is also responsible for the future. What is the economic outlook under Trump's second presidency?
- [35:17]
Joe Scarborough
Yeah, he said Biden was responsible for what's happened in the stock market and moreover would be responsible for anything else that happens in the stock market.
- [35:24]
Nicolle Wallace
Yeah.
- [35:24]
Joe Scarborough
So let's talk about what happened in the stock market in Trump 2.0. The stock market is down 7%. That is the worst performance of a stock market in the first hundred days of a presidential term since Nixon's second term in 1973. It is in stark contrast to Trump's first term when, contrary to what many people expected, the stock market actually went up 5%. And back to Joe's question, because he didn't come out and do all this crazy stuff. But also what is really troublesome for every American, whether you have an IRA or you're an investor, is the volatility. Look at what the stock market did in the course of these hundred days and compare it to any of these other periods. This is another form of uncertainty which is unbelievably destabilizing to business. So where does that put us all together? Puts us all together with recession odds going up very, very sharply. We don't yet obviously have data yet on what's happened really in the last little bit. But let's just go back and take a look. There were some fears of recession back in 24 when the Fed was raising interest rates when Joe Biden left office. You guys have talked over and over again. How about when Joe Biden left office? Economy is growing two and a half percent, low unemployment, inflation on its way down. And so recession odds close to zero. Trump comes in, recession odds go up, up, up, up, up 45 to 40%. Goldman Sachs versus Bloomberg. And then just as a fun fact, on April 9, Goldman Sachs raised its recession probability to 65% because of the tariffs. Two hours later, Trump rescinded some of the tariffs or delayed them and they took that forecast back down to 45%. And this is another example of the volatility and the uncertainty that business hates and just makes their job unbelievably difficult.
- [37:11]
Mika Brzezinski
All right, so Steve, before, before we, but before we let you go, Steve, really quickly, I just want to ask you about, you referenced it. This report is a little quirky, just as a caveat. A little quirky because imports flooded in, people were trying to beat the tariffs. That sort of skewed some of the GDP numbers. There's no doubt that the next two, three months are looking pretty rocky. But you had mentioned it. Talk about why this reading was a little bit quirky.
- [37:41]
Joe Scarborough
Yeah, Joe, it was quirky for a couple of reasons and it's worth pointing out. First of all, Trump wasn't even president for the whole 90 days. Secondly, it ended on March 31 and the tariffs came in on April 2. But as you said, the key things were that imports came into the country in anticipation of the tariffs. That lowers the gdp. But you also had a bunch of businesses out there trying to make some investments and buy some capital goods before the tariffs. That makes it higher. When you strip it all apart, it does appear that the economy grew by a couple percent in the first quarter. But that is that I would put on Biden. I mean, Biden was the president for a month of that. Plus it was his economy that Trump inherited. So I give Biden credit for what was actually not a bad GDP number. We got to look at it. There was a jobs number yesterday from adp. We're going to get another jobs number this Friday. But the ADP number that came out yesterday showed roughly half as many jobs, jobs being created last month as the month before. So you may start to see some effects of Trump. But, but I, but looking ahead, it's all bad. There's nothing but gloom out there in the business and the investor community.
- [38:48]
Mika Brzezinski
Yeah, I mean, that's why, that's why again, we've said it here, the next 100 days will be more telling. Even in the first 100 days, as far as the economy goes. Again, there are a couple of different, couple of caveats to add to this number. But you look at consumer confidence plummeting, you look at savings rates down, a lot of reasons to be deeply concerned for, for, for Americans as we move forward over the next three months. Morning Joe economic analyst Steve Rattner. Thank you so much, Katie. Americans aren't the only ones concerned. As we've said repeatedly here three months ago, leaders in Britain, leaders across Europe, Europe wanted to be more like the United States. Its economy was roaring. They, they wistfully wish that they had the, quote, animal spirits that Americans had. As we've discussed on this show and discussed recently in London, when I was in London, they're not wishing for those sort of animal spirits anymore. They're deeply concerned right now. Talk about the drag on their economy, but also the opportunities that many leaders feel are being presented to them because America is stepping back on the global stage economically.
- [40:02]
Ayman Mohyeldin
First of all, I have to take a moment to get over what Steve was just saying. It's all bad was how he ended. So I circled that so that I remember just how grim things are. Look, I've spent the last couple of weeks speaking to business leaders in Europe. They are both kind of fascinated and appalled and trying to make sense of what is happening here. Most of them are deciding that we can't make any plans to invest in the United States. You've got companies like dhl, which is the kind of big international equivalent of ups, which has even now just stopped shipping to small businesses in America. So imagine the knock on effect that that is having for American businesses, but also that is happening for European businesses, for example. So they are in a, they're in a kind of holding pattern. I mean, the effect of Donald Trump on the world cannot be over exaggerated. I mean, I've never seen a president that's not just had this much impact at home, but has upended the rest of the world in the same way in the first hundred days. So he's causing chaos, but he's also like you say that, Joe, that's interesting that you use that word opportunities, because what are we starting to see? We're starting to see the Europeans in the United Kingdom talk about closer ties post Brexit. Could they somehow rectify that post Brexit alliance in the wake of Donald Trump? We're seeing the Canadians talking to the Europeans about some kind of post Brexit, post kind of Trump alliance. We're seeing Japan, South Korea, the Australians talking to the Chinese about closer ties. It takes a lot to get the Japanese and the Chinese to be talking to each other about a closer relationship. But that's the impact of Donald Trump global trade. When I all the international business leaders that I've spoken to in economists, global trade will continue. It may just have to find its way around the United States rather than through the United States. And that will hurt America.
- [41:53]
Nicolle Wallace
A painful realignment. And Mike Allen, before you go, what is Axios looking at today?
- [42:00]
Jonathan Lemire
Yeah, thank you. Picking up on Steve's point about what's ahead and concerns of CEOs. We know the president likes to make deals. And I think you're going to hear a spate of deals announced at the White House. They've been teasing a few of them. But here's something super important for your viewers, that some of this damage is done. If they were to walk out and announce a bunch of big deals today, there still would be sluggishness in the supply chain. The port bookings are down, freighter activities are down. And what I'm hearing as I talk to business executives is six to eight weeks from liberation day. So the next couple weeks is when consumers, small businesses will start to feel it and they're most concerned about small businesses. And final word, for some reason, some event happened in the past. I set alerts for Automotive News and I got an alert from Automotive News yesterday with a word that stuck with me in the alert. It said the uselessness of business forecasts. And that's the knock on effect. The businesses live by these forecasts and now they're just throwing them out, not even issuing them.
- [43:17]
Nicolle Wallace
Co founder of Axios, Mike Allen, thank you very much. See you soon. And coming up, we're going to have the latest on the deportation case against Kilmar Abrego Garcia, as a judge, denies the Trump administration's request to delay providing documents on how officials are facilitating the Maryland man's return. Morning Joe will be right back.
- [43:57]
Mike Allen
Stay connected with the MSNBC app, bringing you breaking news and analysis anytime, anywhere.
- [44:03]
Nicolle Wallace
All the stories that we're covering are are live and happening as we speak.
- [44:07]
Mike Allen
Watch your favorite shows live.
- [44:09]
Mika Brzezinski
What's happening right now is a hostile.
- [44:12]
Joe Scarborough
Takeover of the US Government.
- [44:13]
Mike Allen
Read live blogs and in depth essays and listen to coverage as it unfolds. Go beyond the what to understand the why. Download the app now@msnbc.com app Citizens, since.
- [44:28]
Katty Kay
We each upgraded to Xfinity in our homes, the WI Fi has been booming. It's fair to say our town has officially become a boom town.
- [44:35]
Ayman Mohyeldin
Mayor, will I be able to drop into multiplayer gaming battles with low lag?
- [44:39]
Mike Allen
The lag won't be an issue, but.
- [44:40]
Katty Kay
Your questionable skills may be.
- [44:42]
Nicolle Wallace
And what if I have hundreds of.
- [44:44]
Steve Ratner
Devices on the WI Fi?
- [44:45]
Nicolle Wallace
Purely hypothetical.
- [44:47]
Mike Allen
Seems like a lot, but sure, hundreds of devices all booming.
- [44:50]
Katty Kay
Together with the Xfinity Gateway.
- [44:52]
Mike Allen
Yes, friends and neighbors, with Xfinity, the.
- [44:54]
Katty Kay
WI Fi is booming.
- [44:55]
Steve Ratner
Restrictions apply.
- [44:56]
Jonathan Lemire
Hey, everyone, it's Chris Hayes.
- [44:58]
Mika Brzezinski
This week on my podcast, why Is this Happening?
- [45:00]
Jonathan Lemire
New York Attorney General Letitia James.
- [45:02]
Mike Allen
It's important that individuals understand that in.
- [45:05]
Mika Brzezinski
Our system of justice that there are judges independently analyzing all that we put forth.
- [45:12]
Mike Allen
They make a determination as to whether.
- [45:14]
Mika Brzezinski
Or not our cause of action, our claim, has any merit based on the law. Politics stops at the door. That's this week on why is this Happening?
- [45:24]
Jonathan Lemire
Search for why is this Happening? Wherever you're listening right now.
- [45:26]
Mika Brzezinski
And follow 100 Days, Trump did an interview with ABC's Terry Moran. Here he is showing off the Oval Office.
- [45:34]
Donald Trump
Over here you have the original of Abraham Lincoln and George Washington. And of course, you have the Declaration of Independence. What does it mean to you? Well, it means exactly what it says. It's a declaration. It's a declaration of unity and love, respect. And it means a lot. And it's something very special to our country.
- [46:00]
Katty Kay
Come on, skate.
- [46:04]
Mika Brzezinski
Skate. More things. Jim, can we see Terry Moran's face again? Oh, Terry, Terry, tonight we are all your face.
- [46:17]
Katty Kay
It's not a declaration of unity. In fact, the opposite. A declaration of separation. A federal judge, meanwhile, is denying the Trump administration's request to delay answering questions about what steps it is taking to facilitate the return of the man it mistakenly, by its own admission, deported to a prison in El Salvador. Yesterday, a judge set new deadlines in the Kilmar Abrego Garcia case, calling for an expedited discovery schedule. During that time, four Trump administration officials will be deposed. This comes just days after the judge granted the Trump administration a week long pause in presenting documents. We don't know how much more time the lawyers actually had requested. Meanwhile, the New York Times is reporting the White House has sent a note to officials in El Salvador inquiring about the release of Abrego Garcia. It's not clear if they were asking specifically about him. The White House declined to comment on the report. They may have just been asking about, generally speaking, about the return of a migrant from El Salvador. Let's bring in MSNBC legal correspondent, former litigator Lisa Rubin. Lisa, good morning. I understand you had a chance to speak to one of Abrego Garcia's attorneys.
- [47:27]
Steve Ratner
I did.
- [47:29]
Katty Kay
What are they thinking?
- [47:30]
Steve Ratner
Well, so Willie, they wouldn't tell me what happened yesterday in a short hearing before the court. That hearing was sealed, and that means they're not at liberty to discuss the contents of what each side said, including themselves. But they did give me a statement and they said that the week long pause in the case was brought about because the Department of Justice represented that the government wanted time to negotiate for Abrego Garcia's return. We had seen that said in public reporting so far, but neither of the sides involved in the litigation had confirmed that until Abrego Garcia's own lawyers told me that last night.
- [48:03]
Katty Kay
And so what do you make of the Justice Department inquiring, as they say, as a general matter, what would it take to get a migrant back from El Salvador? Do you think they're actually exploring the possibility, despite what the president is still saying publicly that there's nothing we can do about it now?
- [48:20]
Steve Ratner
Well, if you believe public reporting, it's not just the Justice Department. The Justice Department made that representation in court, according to Mr. Abrego Garcia's lawyers. But it's the State Department that has gone to the Bukele government in El Salvador and started to make those inquiries about facilitating his return. What's not clear is whether this is an elaborate charade designed to satisfy the Supreme Court's ruling that the government has to facilitate Mr. Abrego Garcia's return or whether it was something actually done in earnest. We also then have that moment from the president's interview with Terry Moran where he says if he wanted to, he could make this happen. But the guy isn't who some people say he was. That, Willie, is not, as you know, in keeping with the Supreme Court's ruling so far.
- [49:03]
Nicolle Wallace
Okay, so new details are Coming to light behind the deal to deport Venezuelans to El Salvador's most feared prison. The New York Times reports that El Salvador and President Bukele has agreed to house only what he called convicted criminals in the prison and wanted assurances from the US that each of those locked up in the prison was a member of Trende Aragua. The Times reports Mr. Bukele's demands for more information about some of the deportees, which has not been previously reported, deepen questions about whether the Trump administration sufficiently assessed who it dispatched to a foreign prison. Mr. Bukele was willing to let the United States use his prisons with conditions he did not want to bring in non criminal migrants. He could not convince Salvadorans he was prioritizing their national interests if he turned their country into a dumping ground for US Deportees from other countries. The paper continues. Publicly, the administration insisted all 238 Venezuelans who were deported were members of Trende Aragua. But few had documented public links to the official to the gang and officials admitted that many did not have criminal records in the United States. Lemire, if I can, am I hearing this right? The dictator from that he's, he's more interested in our constitution apparently and due process.
- [50:41]
Joe Scarborough
Yeah.
- [50:41]
Mike Allen
The president of El Salvador, the self proclaimed world's coolest dictator.
- [50:46]
Nicolle Wallace
Yeah.
- [50:46]
Mike Allen
Is concerned about the identity of the people that he has in his about the due process and the due process that led them there far more than the United States government has been. Is he this terrific reporting in the Times.
- [50:55]
Nicolle Wallace
That's mind blowing.
- [50:56]
Mike Allen
Yeah. That he, that the Salvadoran government expressed concern about who are these people? We want to make sure we just have convicted criminals here. And then there's going to go back and forth about wanting some MS.13 members to be part of the swap. But Lisa, this is so illuminating here. Talk to us about how this can be used. And beyond what we've heard from the Abreu Garcia hearing yesterday for others who were there who beyond this one man also had no due process here and are being even the Salvadoran government concerned where they are.
- [51:30]
Steve Ratner
We're at a place right now where discovery about the government's compliance with the Alien Enemies act rulings is also something that will be litigated. Judge Boasberg, even though his orders were vacated by the Supreme Court, wants to get to the bottom of who allowed those planes to even go to El Salvador in the first place. And John, one of the things I thought was really interesting about that same reporting that you and Mika were just referring to is there's a discussion of what happened in the White House when they became aware of Judge Boasberg's orders. And this is the thing that Judge Boasberg himself wants to get to the bottom of, and may indeed get to the bottom of, they say. Inside the White House, senior administration officials quickly discussed the order and whether they should move ahead. The team of Trump advisers decided to go forward, believing the planes were safely in international airspace and well aware that the legal fight was most likely destined for the Supreme Court, where conservatives have a majority. In other words, they knew that the order was there. They knew they were flouting it, and they decided to go ahead anyway. I doubt this is the last that we've heard of this. What the judge would really like to do, once the DC Circuit perhaps lifts a stay on his discovery himself, is try to figure out who were those people, and maybe we'll find out.
- [52:41]
Nicolle Wallace
MSNBC legal correspondent Lisa Rubin, thank you very much for coming on this morning. The latest episode of Lisa's show, Can They do that? Premieres tonight on YouTube. It features a discussion about immigration with the national legal director of the aclu, Cecilia Wong. And we appreciate your coming on this morning.