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- [00:00]
Joe Scarborough
Introducing the new 2025 Ford Maverick truck with in bed power, up to £4,000 of towing capability and elevated off roading capability. The new 2025 Ford Maverick truck with a standard hybrid engine and available all wheel drive. Ford make it with Maverick Max Towing on all wheel drive models with available Max trailer tow package excludes Maverick, Lobo and Tremor models when properly equipped. Max towing varies based on cargo vehicle configuration, accessories and number of passengers. Always consult the owner's manual before off roading. Know your terrain and trail difficulty and use appropriate safety gear.
- [00:31]
Willie Geist
Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts New episodes of all your favorite MSNBC shows are ad free plus ad free Listening to all of Rachel Maddow's original series, Ultra Bagman and Deja News and all MSNBC original podcasts are available ad free and with bonus content including why is this Happening? Main justice and more. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.
- [01:01]
Donald Trump
The other, of course is Syria. We took out the sanctions and that's been I didn't even realize it's been many, many years that they've had sanctions. And as you know, there was a very big change at the top. I met the new leader of the country and he's got a, you know, strong past. I'll be very nice. He got a strong past, but I liked him a lot. I think you'll be a great representative and we'll see.
- [01:28]
Jonathan Lemire
That was President Trump earlier this morning talking about one of the major moments of his foreign trip. Right now he is speaking to US Troops at a military base in Qatar. It was used as a staging ground during the U.S. wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and has supported the recent US Air campaign against Yemen's Iran backed Houthis. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It's Thursday, May 15th. Along with Joe Willey and me, we have the co host of our fourth hour, Jonathan Lemire. He is a contributing writer at the Atlantic covering the White House and national politics. Also with us here at the table, columnist and associate editor for the Washington Post, David Ignatius. Good to have you on.
- [02:13]
Joe Scarborough
Before we get to the news, let's get to the news. What?
- [02:16]
Jonathan Lemire
What news?
- [02:16]
Joe Scarborough
Bloody hell. That's the back of the New York Post, the Daily News, the same shot. So talk about last night.
- [02:27]
Derrick White
24 hours ago, you may remember I said the Celtics are still really good even without Jayson Tatum. They had all stars, Olympians, six Men of the year, veteran big guys, really good team. When they're making their threes, they're hard to beat. Good first Half, close first half. And then the Celtics blew out the Knicks at home in the second half. 127, 102, 20 point blowout. Derrick White was great last night. So now it comes back to the Garden for game six and it's a little bit of a tense time now. You really, really want to close it out at home. You don't want to have to go back to Boston for a game seven because John Tatum crushing heartbreaking injury. But as I say, even without him, Celtics are still really good.
- [03:07]
David Ignatius
Yeah, heartbreaking this year over for Jason Tatum. Next year likely as well. Celtics showed a lot of heart last night. I'm not surprised. They kind of won it for Tatum. The crowd was really good. Didn't want their season to end on their home court. They had a very second half. Derek, what you mentioned, Jaylen Brown, the word, the name Luke Cornett has never been mentioned on the show before. I will give him a shout out now.
- [03:26]
Joe Scarborough
He. There you go.
- [03:28]
David Ignatius
He was terrific. So yeah. And the Celtics, I mean as a Celtics fan, it's frustrating because they have outplayed the Knicks the vast majority of the quarters of this series, but yet they're down three to two. But I, I think that's right that the Knicks a little. Knicks still up 3 2. Certainly still the favorites to finish this off tomorrow night. But there's pressure to do so because you got to do it at home because you just simply don't want to go back to a game seven in Boston.
- [03:50]
Derrick White
Game seven.
- [03:51]
Joe Scarborough
And the pressure actually will be even though obviously this has been the next series of pressure wheel in the Knicks tomorrow night they'll know they have to win it at home.
- [04:00]
Derrick White
Yeah, the Garden is going to be absolutely rocking because the fans know that too. They do not want to go back to Boston for game seven. By the way, Luke Cornett, you point out six, seven blocks last night. Something like that. Maybe more. He was great.
- [04:12]
David Ignatius
He's flying around.
- [04:13]
Derrick White
Vanderbilt guy. His dad Frank played at Vanderbilt. His mom T.R. is a WNBA NBC anchor in Nashville.
- [04:21]
Joe Scarborough
Wow.
- [04:21]
Derrick White
Big Nashville family.
- [04:23]
Joe Scarborough
That's great.
- [04:24]
Derrick White
Sad the Knicks lost, but happy for Luke.
- [04:26]
David Ignatius
He was Bill Russell last night.
- [04:30]
Joe Scarborough
And in other Boston sports news, the Red Sox once again blew a game at the end. We lead the league and blown saves. We lead the league in one game losses. There was one incredible catch. Do we have this incredible catch, Alex, that we can show. Watch this. This is, you know, this is what happens when you keep losing games. You, you know, get excited about one play. But look at that.
- [05:00]
David Ignatius
So ball is going to be it's going to be a home run and one outfielder Willie o' Brady hits it with his glove, keeps it in the park into the hands of his teammates. And I'm Rafaela. So they team up to steal away a home run. I will say, you know, watch baseball my whole life, I have never seen this before. But you're right, it comes amid another heartbreaking loss for the Sox. They get swept by the Tigers. Yeah, it has just been a run of grisly defeats.
- [05:23]
Joe Scarborough
It's been grizzly defeats and just, just one blown save after another. But the exciting thing about that catch is we only lost by one run.
- [05:30]
Derrick White
Yeah, we go.
- [05:31]
David Ignatius
It's a static supposed to.
- [05:32]
Joe Scarborough
There you go. Let's go.
- [05:33]
Jonathan Lemire
To mention at the top of the show, President Trump is speaking at a military base in Qatar. After this speech, he will then head to the United Arab Emirates, the final stop on his four day tour of the Middle East. Earlier today, the President spoke about his efforts to strike a nuclear weapons deal with Iran.
- [05:56]
Donald Trump
There's two steps. There's a very, very nice step and there's a violent step. The violence like people haven't seen before. And I don't, I hope we're not going to have to do this. I don't want to do the second step. Some people do. Many people do. I don't want to do that step. So we'll see what happens. But we're in very serious negotiations with Iran for long term peace.
- [06:20]
Joe Scarborough
David, you know, we're talking an awful lot. We've been talking, everybody's been talking a lot about the jet from Qatar, which again, we will, we shall see if that ever comes to fruition. Move past that and talk about all the things that have happened this week with Syria, with Iran, with Netanyahu being shut out, the hostage negotiation where Donald Trump basically says, to hell with Bibi, I'm going to do this on my own. You could go down a long list of things that have really, in a very significant way sort of reshuffled the board. And now here we, we come to Iran, where Bibi wanted to invade. Trump said no, not going to do it. And now negotiating with, with Bibi's sworn enemy.
- [07:07]
Mark Levin
So the big issue for me on this trip is where Trump isn't and where Trump isn't is in Israel.
- [07:13]
Joe Scarborough
Right.
- [07:14]
Mark Levin
Physically and symbolically in deciding that he's going to recognize President Al Shara, former Al Qaeda affiliate, as the new ruler of Syria. An amazing break from what Israel would have, would have wanted there. Similarly, in continuing to press for negotiations Seriously. With Iran, Israel's mortal enemy, he's moving further and further away from Israeli positions and finally negotiating directly with Hamas, still characterized as a terrorist organization, basically giving up on President Netanyahu, Prime Minister Netanyahu's ability to deliver the American hostages being held. Those are big steps. I'm sure there's high anxiety in Israel about what this trip means in some.
- [08:00]
Joe Scarborough
And Willie, Trump is hands off of Syria the first term, allowing, obviously, Vladimir Putin and Russia to go in. First time they'd been in the Middle east since, I think, like, 1973. This is a significant break even from his first term.
- [08:17]
Derrick White
Yeah, and we heard it as we came into the show, the comments getting a lot of attention, that President Trump describing Al Shara, the leader now of Syria, as a young, attractive, tough guy with a, quote, strong past. His strong past says a commander with Al Qaeda.
- [08:35]
Mark Levin
That's pretty strong, isn't it?
- [08:38]
Derrick White
So, yeah. I mean, and Israel has obviously expressed concerns about this leader, and because of his past, they worry about his leadership in Syria. What do you make of Donald Trump's coziness here with this new leader? Is it. Well, he's the rebel. He took out Assad. That's a good thing. And let's see what we can do with him.
- [08:55]
Mark Levin
So, you know, one thing is you don't disrupt things. And Trump is famously the disruptor without breaking some of them. And this breaks what had been, you know, a strong rule, Thou shalt not negotiate with former terrorists. Ashara has a chance to put Syria back together. Syria was a wonderful country that was shattered by a civil war. I covered that. Just the misery and pain that Syrians felt. And here's a leader who may actually be able to recreate a Syria that works. And the idea that the United States will help, that we've been assured by Turkey. I don't know how much that's worth, but they're his strongest backers. That this person has changed, that he's not a terrorist. And so Trump's willing to give that a try. I don't think that's crazy. It sticks and draw a little bit, given his past. But what we're seeing is a president who's willing to challenge received assumptions, traditional ways of doing things, different balance in the relationship with Israel. And that's opening the way to many possibilities, mostly good. Be good to have, you know, a new nuclear agreement with Iran. It'd be good to have a real relationship with Syria with this new president. So I think we just have to. Have to hope that he's getting advice from real experts and not just winging it.
- [10:18]
Joe Scarborough
Right. And also also good that he's not just sitting back waiting for Netanyahu to define what's going to happen in the Middle east and what's not going to happen in the Middle East. Fascinating though has been John blowback from Republicans, from conservatives. And of course, when things get shaken up, you're going to get blowback from both sides by Fox News host and a vocal supporter of Donald Trump, Mark Levin is taking a tough tone in reaction to the president's current trip to the Middle East. Yesterday on social media, Levin, without Levin, without mentioning the president by name, blasted Saudi Arabia for playing a significant role on the 911 slaughter of our people. He also slammed Qatar for having protected the leader of the 911 attack from the FBI before he was able to launch his war on America that killed our people. And you're certainly hearing a lot from Mark Levin. Ben Shapiro was critical chorus, you know, Ted Cruz and a chorus of Republican senators critical on the Qatari jet. It is he's hearing about as much from the right as he is from the left.
- [11:32]
David Ignatius
Yeah. On a number of fronts. Certainly some of these saying these are not countries we should be cozying up to. You know, there are some on the right certainly who think that we're upset that Trump has is not going to Israel this week. He's turning his back a little bit on Netanyahu. And certainly and the jet is symbolic of this is that it's hard to find any voices who say this is a good idea.
- [11:53]
Joe Scarborough
I was going to ask have you found any? Because I've even people very close to Donald Trump when I calling them and asking them to defend it. So what's the defense? They start laughing and they're like the jet swear. Yet yesterday nonstop defender of him laughed because the jet are you kidding me, Joe? Don't ask me to defend that. Yeah, it's they're not there.
- [12:17]
David Ignatius
I wrote on this for this morning for the Atlantic and no one does the president himself wants to keep the jet. He is, he is very frustrated that Air Force One he believes is outdated, that he thought that the new one was supposed to be delivered during this term. It hasn't happened yet. Boeing obviously faced all these delays. We he has told people privately that he feels like Air Force One is so old that other world leaders are laughing at the United States. We know how that is a thing that really gets him going. But no one thinks this is a good idea. First of all, of course, just the fact that as a $400 million gift. When federal workers, as we've been talking about all week, have to report things, if it's over $20, they can't accept that. And then the security implications, this is, first of all, it's a symbol of American power, Air Force One, you're going to outsource that to the Q salaries and then beyond that, the amount of work it would take to tear this thing apart, make sure it's not bugged, to rebuild it in adherence to American military standards, it would be years and extraordinarily expensive as well. So we are seeing pushback on the Hill as well as true believers in mog world like Ben Shapiro and even Laura Loomer.
- [13:18]
Derrick White
And true what you said that NBC, our colleagues reported yesterday it would take $1 billion and many years to make it safe and to make it Air Force One, perhaps beyond his term. So it never would serve for him as Air Force One.
- [13:30]
David Ignatius
And the other Boeing jet would be ready by then, perhaps. So, yeah, there's no one who suggests, I mean, I think there's some doubt whether this deal will actually happen. But even just talking about it has overshadowed this trip in some ways and has been a distraction.
- [13:41]
Derrick White
And often with Donald Trump, President Trump, it's not that complicated. He kind of gave it away in that interview with Sean Hannity. They were sitting on his plane. He looked out the window at the planes of the princes and kings from the Middle east and said, see how nice their planes are? Ours is crappy. I want one of those planes. That's what it is.
- [13:57]
Joe Scarborough
I will say also, David, the thing is, and but for this plane distraction that has overshadowed the trip for, for a lot of people, like you said, there are a lot of very significant policy moves here that if they come to fruition, if they are successful, rewrites the map of the Middle east in a significant and yes, positive way. Unless you're Bibi Netanyahu and want war, permanent war declared on places like Syria.
- [14:28]
Mark Levin
And Iran, Trump seems to be willing to question basic assumptions. The most interesting example in some ways is his war on the Houthis. Back in March, we'll remember, with Signal Gate, they decided they were going to bomb the hell out of Yemen to get these Houthi rebels to stop shooting at American ships. Trump was all for it. But he said, I want to look at the results of this. After 30 days, what are we getting out of it? And the New York Times in a super piece this week said that he concluded After 30 days we'd spent a billion dollars firing the most exquisite weapons at Houthi rebels in caves. It just didn't make any sense. And so he just declared victory. Thank you very much. And that's it. It's the solution that Senator George Akin famously proposed for the Vietnam War. Declare victory. And that's new. That's different, and it's appropriate. We ought to look at these military commitments and say, hey, wait a minute, what are we getting for this? Does this make sense in terms of the kind of trade of expensive weapons chasing fairly primitive rebels? So, you know, he's trying new things. He's going to make mistakes. He is Donald Trump. You wonder whether he's really thought through any of these things carefully, and the details do come back and bite you. But it's a week where, other than the jet, which is an absolutely dreadful idea, people ought to take a careful look and think, that's interesting. That's different.
- [15:58]
Derrick White
So while all that's happening in the Middle east, the President about to leave Qatar to go to the uae. Big news coming out of Turkey moments ago in the Turkish capital of Ankara. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky arrived ahead of peace talks set to begin today with Russia in Istanbul aimed at finding an end to the war. Secretary of State Marco Rubio, along with presidential envoy Steve Witkoff and retired Army Lt. Gen. Keith Kellogg, expected to join the negotiations tomorrow. Secretary Rubio arrived in Turkey yesterday for meetings with NATO officials. Russia's Vladimir Putin is not expected to attend this week's peace talks in Turkey. President Trump addressed Putin's absence from the negotiations during a business roundtable earlier today in Qatar.
- [16:48]
Mark Levin
Are you disappointed by that?
- [16:50]
Donald Trump
No, I didn't anticipate. I actually said, why would he go if I'm not going? Because I wasn't going to go. I wasn't planning to go. I would go, but I wasn't planning to go. And I said, I don't think he's going to go if I don't go. And that turned out to be right. But we have people there. Marco, as you know, is doing a fantastic job. Marco is there. Secretary of State, and we have people there. But I don't. I don't. I didn't think it was possible for Putin to go if I'm not there.
- [17:18]
Derrick White
Bring in NBC News chief international correspondent Kier Simmons, live from Istanbul, Turkey. Kier, what's the latest there?
- [17:28]
Kier Simmons
Well, Willie, Marco Rubio isn't here right now. Not here by the Bosphorus, here in Istanbul. He's in Antalya, where there is an informal NATO Meeting long planned. The Russians are here, but they are a much reduced group of negotiators than might have been expected, led by Vladimir Badinsky, the former Culture Minister in Russia, a man who does not have the stature, for example, of Foreign Minister Lavrov or other members of the Russian delegation that have been negotiating with Steve Witkoff. So it's difficult to tell exactly what we're going to get. It doesn't seem to be going very well right now. President Zelensky is antakya the capital and he is there meeting with Erdogan already though the Russians and Ukrainians throwing abuse at each other from a distance. So Zelensky saying that President Putin has simply sent stand in props for these negotiations. The media are here in force believing that we might get the first Ukraine Russian talks in three years. You can see the crowd here behind me. That's the former Ottoman palace where in 2022 I was here then too, the negotiations that failed took place. Why everyone thinks it's going to be in there, not clear. Because first of all it was thought that it was going to happen at 10am local time this morning. Then after 12, still no sign of negotiators. Maybe the only reason everyone's here is because this is where it happened last time. One Russian TV crew tells us that they've booked their flight home tomorrow, expecting it to be a day, a day that hasn't started. And meanwhile, as I mentioned, the Secretary of State not here yet, but talking to reporters about why the US still believes this is important.
- [19:30]
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
The big issue on everyone's mind is what's happening with Russia and Ukraine. The President of the United States has been abundantly clear he wants the war to end. He's open to virtually any mechanism that gets us to a just, enduring and lasting peace. And that's what he wants to see. He wants to see an end to wars. He wants to keep wars from happening.
- [19:49]
Kier Simmons
Big headline, Willie, is that President Putin saying, making clear that he's not coming. And then as you heard at the top there, President Trump saying, well, that's probably because I'm not coming. So this isn't the face to face leaders summit that we thought a few days ago might be possible.
- [20:07]
Derrick White
Keir, was there expectation that President Putin would be there from the Ukrainian side and are they disappointed that he's not?
- [20:17]
Kier Simmons
Oh, I think the Ukrainian side are deeply cynical about all of this. I mean, really what's happening here is both the Russians and the Ukrainians are trying to stay on the right side of President Trump, even though President Trump isn't here trying not to be blamed when the talks, well, if the talks fail. But you think when, don't you really? Because the Russians are saying, well, we're here to talk about what they call the root causes. And we're here in Istanbul to pick up the negotiations where we left off. Well, those negotiations were talking about things like that Ukraine should be largely neutral, something the Ukrainians would never sign up to. Now, on the other hand, Ukrainians are making clear that the only thing they really want to talk about here is whether Russia is prepared to begin a full and lasting ceasefire that just this huge, it's the size of the Bosphorus between them. And I'm not sure how you, you bridge that, that gulf.
- [21:11]
Derrick White
NBC's Keir Simmons live in Istanbul. Kir, thanks as always for your reporting. David, sounds like expectations pretty low for these negotiations in Turkey.
- [21:20]
Mark Levin
For the moment, Willie, this is a blame game. It is interesting. President Trump said that he wanted a 30 day ceasefire. Zelensky responded, okay, I'll have a 30 day ceasefire. Putin stalled. President Trump said, I want to see a meeting in Turkey between the two sides. Zelensky within minutes said, I'll be there. And Putin is sending very junior people to represent Russia. So this is a situation in which Zelenskyy is trying to tell Trump, you're being played by Vladimir Putin, wake up. And the hope that he has, I just was in Kyiv last week. The Ukrainian hope is that Trump will see that he needs to put pressure on Russia in a way that he's put pressure on Ukraine to get these negotiations into a real phase where it's not sparring and who's going to be here, but a real negotiation. But they're trying, as I say, they want no distance right now between Trump and Zelensky.
- [22:25]
David Ignatius
And there are signs that it might be working. In the last few weeks, President Trump has really changed his rhetoric towards Putin, expressed real impatience with his unwillingness to get to a deal. We heard from the Secretary of State there saying the president basically would take any mechanism to get a cease fire to get the fighting to stop. And Russia continues to drag its feet. We reported last week about the sanctions they're considering. President Trump talked about them again earlier this week that they are on the table. He is still never in his career really defied Putin. So I think there is skepticism among those in Washington, certainly those in Kiev, that this might be the moment to do so. But this is the closest he's come. And I think there is a sense that if Russia doesn't show. I've been told if Russia doesn't show some good faith effort here, I think we might get an angry Trump feeling like Putin is trying to humiliate him.
- [23:11]
Jonathan Lemire
All right, coming up on Morning Joe, the Supreme Court is set to hear arguments today over birthright citizenship. Will talk about what to expect when that legal fight goes before the justices. Plus a meta fight with the Trump administration. The president of Harvard is trying to absorb some of the shock from major funding cuts. We'll explain that ahead. Morning Joe is back in 90 seconds.
- [23:40]
David Ignatius
USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With usaa, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a'@usaa.com bundle restrictions apply.
- [23:56]
Willie Geist
Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. New episodes of all your favorite MSNBC shows are ad free plus ad free listening to all of Rachel Maddow's original series, Ultra Bagman and Deja News. And all MSNBC original podcasts are available ad free and with bonus content including why is this Happening, Main justice and more. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. MSNBC Films presents a six part documentary series David Frost versus On the next.
- [24:31]
Mark Levin
Episode, former President Richard Nixon.
- [24:33]
Donald Trump
But when the president does it, that.
- [24:35]
Mark Levin
Means that it is not illegal.
- [24:36]
Willie Geist
Sunday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC.
- [24:42]
Jonathan Lemire
Time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning at 24 past the hour. The president of Harvard is taking a 25% pay cut amid the university's battle with the Trump administration. It's unclear how much money he makes, but the move is largely symbolic as the White House has blocked more than $2.5 billion in federal funding for the school. Harvard has been trying to offset those costs by pausing hiring and merit based raises for some non union faculty members.
- [25:16]
Joe Scarborough
So John Lemire, New York Times had an article, Michael Schmidt had an article out last week that Harvard loses. Any way you look at this, even if they win the court battle, how are they going to get funding over the next several years for the research? Money. And as much as any school Since World War II, Harvard is has become very dependent on money from the federal government for research and development because that's how the United States invests in research and development. They go to the best schools, spend a lot of money. And so yeah, so even if they win in court, the feeling is they're probably going to lose in the long run because where Will the funding come next year? And the next year you hope sanity will return to Congress, but doubtful.
- [26:04]
David Ignatius
Yeah, I'm certainly a surge in alumni donations, but that can't offset some of the money that the federal government would direct for research. And on that point, there's such a spillover effect here. The Boston Globe actually had a great piece in the last couple days that Harvard and some of those other schools in the greater Boston area, because of the work that they do, has really fueled the economy of that region. And they're already seeing real changes there because of the cutbacks to these universities and the fears that more could come. So, yeah, and I think other schools are obviously watching what's happening at Harvard, making their own decisions. Some, like Columbia, not put up much of a fight against the administration, others looking more towards the Harvard model.
- [26:39]
Joe Scarborough
You know, David, what's so shocking to me is that members of Congress understand, especially the ones that have the relevant committees, they understand that America's research and development, that is. That's kept us ahead. Whether you're talking about the military industrial complex, whether you're talking about intel, whether you're talking now about AI, whether you're talking about the technological revolution of the early 1990s. And that happened. So much of that was fueled out of research and development coming from whether it's Harvard, mit, Yale, Penn, Stanford, the best schools on the planet. That happened because the federal government funded their research and development operations. There's not like, you know, Bob's R and D shop in Omaha, Omaha, Nebraska, that's going to be able to take this on. So while the President's making his point, America's falling further and further behind in R and D. And again, you know, when I'm. When I'm in Britain, when I'm in Europe, they're giddy about the fact that they're getting the best and the brightest students that were coming to the United States, that will not come to the United States now, but instead will be researching at King's College, Cambridge or Oxford, or you pick the school in Britain and Europe again, where are the Republicans in Congress standing up going, we're losing our R and D advantage. Every single day this goes on, they talk about dei, dei, dei. Okay, we'll take care of dei. But don't slash R and D to these institutions that, again, since World War II, have driven America's technological and economic prowess.
- [28:27]
Mark Levin
You know, Joe, the scariest thing is that they may be breaking this exquisite machine precisely because it is so good, right? Because it's elite, because Harvard and Stanford and these other universities, Johns Hopkins, are world leaders. And there is an anger. It's inexplicable to me. But. But as you say, once you begin to break apart a lab, it's hard to put it back together. The kids in that lab have to go find work somewhere else. They go to Amsterdam or they go to Oxford or Singapore, and you'll never put that research group together quite again. So I hope you got it exactly right. People need to look at what we're losing and how long it will take to. To put it back together.
- [29:18]
Jonathan Lemire
Officials in Argentina are combing through a startling discovery. Boxes full of Nazi propaganda from World War II. The documents, stamped with swastikas, had been stored in the basement of the country's Supreme Court for more than eight decades.
- [29:37]
Joe Scarborough
That whole Argentina thing. Yeah, check.
- [29:40]
Jonathan Lemire
Officials say the material, the material was brought there in 1941 from the German Embassy in Tokyo and was intended to consolidate Hitler's ideology. In Argentina, researchers and members of the local Jewish community held a ceremony as they began to catalog the contents. And overdose Deaths in the US fell by nearly 30,000 last year, the largest one year death decline on record. An estimated 80,000 people died from overdoses in 2024, according to the CDC. That is down 27% from the year prior. That previous largest one year drop was 4%. However, annual overdose deaths remain higher than they were before the pandemic. Experts cite several factors for the decline, from the increased availability of overdose reversing medications to expanded addiction treatment.
- [30:38]
Joe Scarborough
The question is, are those going to be cut? Now, I've heard the possibility that some of that funding is going to be cut as well. But you look 2024, we saw crime down, we saw a lot of economic factors going up, a lot of teenage pregnancy way down, overdose deaths way down. A lot of quality of life and social trend lines going in the right direction in 2024.
- [31:05]
Derrick White
Yeah, I mean, this is objectively good news. We debate things. Politics is injected into everything. But this is good news. When we were 30,000 fewer deaths last year than the year before. 27% decline in drug fatalities still way too many. Over 80,000 a year. It's still the leading cause of death for young people in America. The cdc under the Trump administration did inject a little politics into their announcement of this, giving President Trump credit for it. His first term, his first administration did start an initiative against opioids, so he deserves some credit. But so too, of course, does the Biden administration. So to your point, let's keep this going. Is what all the doctors are saying concurrently, you had HHS Secretary Kennedy up on Capitol Hill talking about the cuts he's going to be making to that department. And these doctors are saying, please, we're moving in the right direction on this epidemic in our country. Please don't make those cuts.
- [31:57]
Jonathan Lemire
Well, speaking of coming up, HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Says Americans should not take his medical advice when asked at a congressional hearing.
- [32:06]
David Ignatius
Jack?
- [32:07]
Derrick White
Yes.
- [32:07]
Joe Scarborough
Right.
- [32:08]
Jonathan Lemire
About vaccines. I think we all got that right.
- [32:11]
Joe Scarborough
Yeah.
- [32:11]
Jonathan Lemire
We're going to play for you those new comments. Plus, Steve Ratner has charts on President Trump's executive order focused on cutting prescription drug prices and the impact it could have on the pharmaceutical industry. MORNING Joe will be right back.
- [32:36]
David Ignatius
USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With usaa, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get get a'@usaa.com bundle restrictions apply as.
- [32:52]
Willie Geist
President Trump continues implementing his ambitious agenda. Follow along with MSNBC's newest newsletter, Project 47. You'll get weekly updates sent straight to your inbox with expert analysis on the administration's latest actions and how they're affecting the American people.
- [33:09]
Joe Scarborough
The American people are basically telling the president that they are not okay with any of this.
- [33:13]
Willie Geist
Sign up for the Project 47 newsletter@msnbc.com.
- [33:19]
Jonathan Lemire
Project 4737 past the hour. Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Faced tough questions during two congressional hearings yesterday.
- [33:31]
Joe Scarborough
Anybody ask him about swimming in Rock Creek and the floating children?
- [33:41]
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Yeah.
- [33:47]
Jonathan Lemire
It all sticks to you for quite some time as long as you're wearing it.
- [33:54]
Joe Scarborough
I know people asking questions there. Sets up shop, gets a home. The bacteria, it's really something. Lawmakers on the House Appropriations Committee obviously deeply disturbed by that. I'm sure they were, even if they said something. The Senate helped committee were scheduled to discuss next year's HHS budget. But amid an ongoing deadly outbreak of measles and swimming in Rock Creek, focus soon shifted Secretary Kennedy's stance on vaccinations. Now, the question is that stance on vaccination, Willie, because I'm a simple country lawyer, so I don't understand. Let's sort that when he talks about his, his stance.
- [34:39]
Jonathan Lemire
Yeah.
- [34:39]
Joe Scarborough
Is he talking about his stance as it pertains to his online following, or is he talking about his stance when the doctor says, Mr. Kennedy, would you like to give your own children these vaccines? Because for that he was like, yes, I do. I do. Because what if we, for instance, decide years down the road to swim in Rock Creek where there's the fluent all over lake.
- [35:06]
Derrick White
Yeah.
- [35:07]
Joe Scarborough
So it's like, is it what he says for people to do or what he does for himself?
- [35:13]
Derrick White
It's funny you should ask Joe. He was asked that very question hearing yesterday.
- [35:16]
Jonathan Lemire
Oh my gosh.
- [35:17]
Joe Scarborough
I don't follow the news. It's good to know. Let me see.
- [35:20]
Donald Trump
Measles.
- [35:23]
Joe Scarborough
Probably for measles. I, you know, what I would say is my opinions about vaccines are irrelevant. Don't want to.
- [35:31]
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Measles.
- [35:31]
Joe Scarborough
Seem like I'm being evasive, but I don't think people should be taking advice. Medical advice from me.
- [35:38]
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Right, no, I got that. And I'm not asking you to give the medical advice, but would you vaccinate your child for me?
- [35:43]
Joe Scarborough
Answer that question directly and it will seem like I'm giving advice to other people. And I don't want to be doing that. I want people to make.
- [35:51]
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
But that's kind of your jurisdiction because CDC does give advice. Right.
- [35:54]
Joe Scarborough
Would you.
- [35:54]
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Can you talk about chickenpox? Would you vaccinate your child against chickenpox?
- [36:02]
Joe Scarborough
I. Again, I don't want to give advice.
- [36:05]
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Just one last one. Just a yes or no, please, if you could.
- [36:07]
Joe Scarborough
Polio. Polio. Again, I don't want to be giving advice.
- [36:12]
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
That's fair.
- [36:13]
Joe Scarborough
The answer, I'm just a Turpin. Okay, so I'm actually a simple caveman lawyer. I do understand things better say. So those answers were yes, yes, and hell yes, polio.
- [36:26]
Willie Geist
Yeah.
- [36:26]
Joe Scarborough
And yet he goes out and tells everybody not to do it. He's got quite a following because of it. And yet he vaccinates his own children, but says don't vaccinate yours or suggests maybe you shouldn't vaccinate yours. Come on, what are you going to do next? Jump in like Rock Creek?
- [36:42]
David Ignatius
No.
- [36:42]
Joe Scarborough
With your jeans on.
- [36:43]
Derrick White
And by the way, he has said in the past, a few weeks ago, he attended the funeral of a child who died of polio in Texas and was asked after, should people be getting the polio vaccine? Excuse me? Measles. Measles. And he said, yeah, you should get the measles vaccine. So very evasive there yesterday, as you say, he's built this entire universe around himself around anti vaccination. I'm just asking questions. All that Weasley stuff. He's enriched himself. He's the prominent speaker at all these events, so he has to sort of keep that credibility. But we know that he's vaccinated, so.
- [37:17]
Joe Scarborough
So what is his Standing in the administration because it seemed, it's interesting, the MAGA base at times in the past has been skeptical of him because he's left wing on a lot of issues. But what is his standing in the administration? What is his standing with President Trump?
- [37:35]
David Ignatius
We're about to find out because this is sort of his first moment in the spotlight. The measles outbreak and now these hearings. He was President Trump, deeply pleased with Kennedy with the endorsement and the support down the stretch of the campaign, telling people that he had a Kennedy with him. That was something that really meant a lot to him in his campaign. And he loves the idea of having a Kennedy work for him as part of the Cabinet. To this point, Keith, Kennedy has been largely relatively low profile in the first couple months. That's now changing. We're going to have to see how this goes. I mean, this obviously was an absurd performance yesterday.
- [38:09]
Joe Scarborough
That's terrible.
- [38:09]
David Ignatius
As the Congressman pointed out, as Kennedy said, well, I don't want to give advice. That's exactly your job. You are the Health and Human Services Secretary of the cdc. You give advice, you give health recommendations. Kennedy trying to walk a fine line. We will see how that plays the administration in the months ahead.
- [38:24]
Joe Scarborough
Yeah, so. So, David, I'm not sure. I do think at some point this anti vax approach may come in conflict with Donald Trump and his understanding of what one of his great achievements been in his two presidencies. Because he understands, and the people closest to him understand something that was said on the show, I think, by Ezra Klein, that one of the great achievements, one of the great scientific achievements over the past 50, 60 years was Operation Warp Speed. And, and the fact that they understand that that's one of the great scientific achievements. But he can hardly ever talk about it because this anti vax movement that Robert Kennedy is at the center of, I just wonder at what point, the deeper he goes into his presidency, he doesn't start talking about it.
- [39:23]
Mark Levin
He's so opportunistic, Joe. He created through warp speed the MRNA vaccines that arguably saved a lot of lives in America. He should be taking credit for it. But then this anti vax movement began to sweep the country and he seems to have just tucked himself in behind it, ignoring the fact that he was, you know, in the eyes of medical professionals, responsible for funding this extraordinary breakthrough. I think it's going to take a real rebellion by healthcare professionals and researchers to stop this. And when I say rebellion, you know, not going to demonstrations, but also putting pressure on the institutions that fund, say, we just can't practice medicine the way that we're asked to with the rules that you're instituting.
- [40:09]
David Ignatius
An early sign of conflict is that Kennedy has proposed reducing the use of pesticides. Trump White House has pushed back on that saying. Wait a minute. That could endanger food supplies. That could endanger people's health. So we might see more to your point these tension moments coming up.
- [40:24]
Joe Scarborough
And now there's the Surgeon general, apparently very New Agey, like not.
- [40:32]
Mark Levin
Not a licensed doctor.
- [40:35]
Joe Scarborough
That's not her job. Oh, wait, it is as a surgeon general. But now apparently some of the base not happy that her. I don't know if she. I don't know. Something about the moon and I don't know.
- [40:48]
Derrick White
There's some woo in there. She's got some good stuff. When they talk about clean eating and having our children eat healthier food. When Secretary Kennedy talks. Talks about that stuff. She does.
- [40:57]
Joe Scarborough
Yeah.
- [40:57]
Derrick White
That's all good stuff. But that is. And by the way, the other nominee to be Surgeon General was pushed out because she supported the COVID vaccine and that was a fatal.
- [41:07]
Jonathan Lemire
This is so convoluted.
- [41:09]
Joe Scarborough
So she supported the vaccine that Donald Trump.
- [41:13]
Derrick White
Correct.
- [41:14]
Joe Scarborough
Like, yeah.
- [41:15]
Jonathan Lemire
Galvanized push.
- [41:16]
Joe Scarborough
Galvanized operation.
- [41:18]
Jonathan Lemire
Warp speed.
- [41:18]
Derrick White
Historic. Yeah.
- [41:19]
Jonathan Lemire
Perhaps.
- [41:20]
Joe Scarborough
Wow.
- [41:20]
Jonathan Lemire
Okay, so the cost of prescription drugs is next. Get the kids. Because Ratner's.
- [41:27]
Joe Scarborough
Wake up, kids.
- [41:28]
Jonathan Lemire
He's got his charts. We'll be right back. Earlier this week, President Trump signed an executive order that the White House says will reduce the price of prescription drugs for some Americans to the low prices paid by other nations around the world.
- [42:06]
Joe Scarborough
Wake up, kids. Because we've got former treasury official. Can we have. Hold on a second here. Now. It seems to me we need. I hear laugh tracks are still a thing. I read it in the New York Times. We need an applause track and a laugh track for Steve Ratner when we.
- [42:23]
Jonathan Lemire
Call him in, I think an applause track.
- [42:25]
Joe Scarborough
TJ do you have any cheering right here? Can you press a button and get some cheering?
- [42:29]
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
We'll see.
- [42:29]
Kier Simmons
We'll see if Q can get something.
- [42:31]
Joe Scarborough
All right, here we go. Ready? Because right now we have former treasury official and Morning Joe economic analyst Steve Ratner. Steve says the reality of prescription.
- [42:41]
David Ignatius
Keep it going.
- [42:42]
Joe Scarborough
The drug pricing is much more complicated. And he hit the wall with it. And with charts to break it down, kids. Ladies and gentlemen, Big Pharma. Get on the edge of your seats. The one, the only, the incomparable Steve Ratner. Steve, take us through the charts.
- [43:00]
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Well, I don't think I can live up to that. There will not be APPLAUSE at the end of this, there might be booing.
- [43:05]
Joe Scarborough
Oh, no, we'll have applause.
- [43:07]
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
But let's, let's just start with a quick, surreal, parallel universe Trump moment. Because Trump put out this executive order on Sunday saying that he was going to. This was the most consequential thing almost in the history of the country. He was going to lower prescription drug prices by 30 to 80%. The executive order actually does nothing. He doesn't have the authority to do any of those things. But then he said just recently, I heard it on way too early this morning out in the Middle east, wherever he is, that, that a lot of Democrats were going to vote for this tax bill going through Ways and Means because it was going to lower drug prices. There's nothing in the tax bill that would lower drug prices. So the President is off on one universe and the world is on a different universe, but he is talking about a world that does exist. He's talking about a world in which drug prices are much more expensive outside the country than here. So if you look at all drugs and you look at these countries, plus about 25 developed countries as a whole, whole, you can see that they pay about 36% of what we pay. In other words, we pay almost three times as much. When you look at branded drugs, the disparity is even greater. But when you look at generics, in fact, it's the other way around. Generics here are actually cheaper, but branded drugs are what people pay attention to. Why do they pay attention to it? Because while 90% of all the prescriptions written are written for generic drugs, branded drugs are 90% of the cost because they cost so much. So drug prices are higher here, and they definitely occupy a lot of people's wallet share.
- [44:42]
Joe Scarborough
Why are they so much more expensive here than in Canada or other countries? Why do you have Americans actually traveling around to other countries to buy drugs?
- [44:52]
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
That's a great question, Joe. And there are really two reasons for it. One reason for it is because most other countries, take Britain for example, which has national health insurance, they negotiate with the drug companies for the whole country at one time, and they basically say, here's what we're willing to pay. The drug companies don't have as much leverage, so they lower their prices. Also, versus our system, where of course, you have Medicare, you have Medicaid, you have private insurance, you have people paying for it on their own. We have a very fragmented system, so there's no equally large force operating against the drug companies. The other reason, quite frankly, is we're A wealthier country and we're willing to pay more. And Europeans and others would simply say no to some drugs. We'll look at that in a minute. Instead of paying those high prices.
- [45:36]
Joe Scarborough
Okay, so when the drug prices go up, do the stocks go up?
- [45:39]
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Well, that's an interesting question. You would think they would make a ton of money because it is a fact that drug prices have gone up much faster than inflation. It's a combination of reasons, but it includes the fact that a lot of new drugs, as we'll also talk about in a second, are very expensive. So you'd think this would create a great environment for the companies. It's actually, it's not bad, but it's not been as great as people might think. So this is the S and P going back to the year 2000. And you can see the black line right there. This is an index of the 13 biggest drug companies. So it looks like they way outperform, although it comes back down a bit here. But two of those drug companies make Mongovi and Ozempic, the two big weight loss drugs that have been such a bonanza. If you take those two companies out of the index, in fact, drug companies have underperformed the S and P. They've not done as well. And it gets a lot to the cost of developing all this stuff.
- [46:32]
Joe Scarborough
So talk about how many drugs are sold in the US versus other countries.
- [46:36]
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Right, so we are developing a lot more drugs. This goes back to the cost factor. Over the last 10 years, we've been developing about 41 and a half new drugs a year, and that is about 50% higher than what it was back here. A lot of the new drugs, these greens are what are called biologics. They're much more expensive to develop. I won't get into the details of that. So you're getting a lot more drugs at a much higher price. But we also get more drugs. We had 212 new drugs sold over this five year time period. Germany, 149. UK 122. And this gets back again to cost and price and who's willing to pay the most, that is us. And so we get the most drugs. So we do get something for paying as much as I just showed you that we pay for this stuff.
- [47:24]
Joe Scarborough
All right, so Morning Joe economic analyst Steve Ratner. The crowd absolutely loves you. We love you too. They just want maybe for your next set of charts, you can do charts on the differing political views of the Pope's two brothers.
- [47:42]
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Oh, there you go.
- [47:43]
Jonathan Lemire
Well, there's that?
- [47:44]
Joe Scarborough
There you go. Look at that.
- [47:47]
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
I thought you were going to say why don't we get an applause.
- [47:50]
Joe Scarborough
That's pretty good. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I know we need the Ed McGon line as well. And then we'll be set. Hey, Steve, why don't you come over and next, next, next, what we call them segments around here.
- [48:05]
Jonathan Lemire
Yeah.
- [48:05]
Joe Scarborough
We'll talk a little bit more about drug prices and the Pope's brothers.
- [48:08]
Jonathan Lemire
And also coming up, we're going to go through more.
- [48:10]
Joe Scarborough
And also the Pope's brothers.
- [48:13]
Jonathan Lemire
Yes.
- [48:13]
Joe Scarborough
And we'll also talk. They're a little slow on the tank. That's okay. We're going to work on it.
- [48:21]
Mark Levin
That they dropped the laugh line.
- [48:23]
Derrick White
That's right.
- [48:23]
Joe Scarborough
Exactly.
- [48:27]
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
How many discounts does USAA Auto Insurance offer? Too many to say here.
- [48:31]
David Ignatius
Multi vehicle discount, Safe driver discount, new vehicle discount, storage discount.
- [48:36]
Derrick White
How many discounts will you stack up? Tap the banner or visit usaa.com autodiscounts restrictions apply.