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- [00:01]
Joe Scarborough
Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. New episodes of all your favorite MSNBC shows are ad free plus ad free listening to all of Rachel Maddow's original series, Ultra Bagman and Deja News and all MSNBC original podcasts are available ad free and with bonus content including why is this Happening? Main justice and more. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. Sir David Frost gave us an intimate look at some of the most compelling personalities of our time.
- [00:36]
Willie Geist
We want to involve both world leaders and world entertainers.
- [00:40]
Joe Scarborough
MSNBC Films presents a six part documentary series David Frost versus On the next episode, Elton John.
- [00:49]
Willie Geist
I realize what my flaws are.
- [00:50]
Mika Brzezinski
Now I can do something about them.
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Willie Geist
It's okay to ask for help.
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Mike Barnicle
I didn't think it was because I.
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Willie Geist
Thought it was a sign of weakness.
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Joe Scarborough
Sunday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC.
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Willie Geist
I think we have unbelievable unity. I think we're going to get everything we want and I think we're going to have a great victory today. I think it was a really great. That was a meeting of love, let me tell you. That was love in that room. There was no shouting. I think it was a meeting of love. There were a couple of things that we talked about specifically where some people felt a little bit one way or the other, not a big deal. And I covered them. It wasn't so much a speech. I covered certain points.
- [01:29]
Katty Kay
President Trump speaking to reporters yesterday after a closed door meeting on Capitol Hill hoping to sway holdouts on his budget package. We're bringing the latest from Washington as the House Rules Committee is hours into a meeting on the legislation. Plus, we're learning more about former President Biden's medical history amid his cancer diagnosis, including the last time he had a screening for prostate cancer. And New Jersey Congresswoman LaMonica McIver is our guest this morning. Morning ahead of her federal hearing on charges alleging that she assaulted an agent at an ice facility. Good morning and welcome to Morning Jo. It is Wednesday, May 21st. Good to have you right here, Joe.
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Willie Geist
Lot to talk about today and going to be talking about tonight as well. Willie. So it begins.
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Mike Barnicle
Yeah. Knicks Game 1, Eastern Conference Finals at home. The Garden will be rocking tonight at 8 o' clock when the Indiana Pier Pacers come in. Got through that series with the Celtics, of course, a couple of nights ago. It's a really good Pacers team. The Pacers bounced the Knicks from the playoffs last year, but there is real genuine excitement in New York right now that one step at a time. But this could be the team that gets them to the finals. Although we got a little preview, whoever gets to the finals of the potential opponent last night, the Oklahoma City Thunder look really, really good.
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Willie Geist
They look great. So I don't know if everybody's playing for second place or not, but the Knicks, it's going to be craz. It's going to be.
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Mike Barnicle
Everybody's going to be there. Not me, but everyone else. Everyone. Who's everyone?
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Willie Geist
Exactly.
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Katty Kay
I bet Barnacle will be there.
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Willie Geist
Front row.
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Katty Kay
Yes. Okay, let's get right to the news. The House Rules Committee is holding a meeting right now on the Republican Party's massive domestic policy bill to advance President Trump's legislative agenda. The lawmakers convened at a 1am hearing to process and debate any changes to the legislation. More than 500amendments have been submitted to the committee, most of them from Democrats. This meeting comes after President Trump visited Capitol Hill yesterday to pressure some party members to get on board with the bill. Behind closed doors, Trump warned conservative hardliners against steeper cuts to Medicaid. He also criticized some blue state Republicans pushing to raise the state and local tax deduction cap, known as salt. President Trump spoke to reporters afterwards.
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Willie Geist
Who told you? I said I'm losing. That's what we heard inside the room.
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Mike Barnicle
Wait a minute.
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Willie Geist
Who's told you that? We heard from people inside the room. It's totally true. I never use the term. I didn't say losing. I didn't even talk about it. In fact, it's the opposite. I think we're going to get it done. I'm not losing. Patience. We're ahead of schedule. Anybody that told you that is a liar. And this morning we're learning that House Republicans may be closing in on a deal to address the state and local tax deduction for Republican sources familiar with a matter tell NBC News. You know, yesterday we had J Mart on and basically he said the ideology is Trump, and if he goes to the Hill and he tells them what to do, you know, they'll say, well, what's the process for it? What's the ideology? And he'll say, just get it done. This was J Mart yesterday morning, and looks like that's exactly what happened. And now even on salt, looks like they're coming close to a deal on salt. Yeah.
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Mike Barnicle
President Trump is reported to have said in the room to Congress, Mike Lawler of New York, who's been pushing for a higher cap like a lot of other in New York and some blue state Republicans saying, mike, just drop it.
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Willie Geist
Just drop.
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Mike Barnicle
So after all that, we'll see if they drop it fully, but it may not. They may not get what they want, those Republicans. And there are many sticking points. By the way, Donald Trump supported raising the cap on salt during the campaign, but there are sticking points from conservatives like Chip Roy, who's saying, what you've been saying all along, Joe, is that we're supposed to be fiscally conservative as Republicans.
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Willie Geist
Right.
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Mike Barnicle
And if this passes in its current form or even close, it's going to skyrocket the national debt well beyond what it was post World War II. Or they're going to set a new record, 125%, 130% of GDP.
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Willie Geist
Right.
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Mike Barnicle
That's not supposed to be who we are. So we'll see if they can hold the line there.
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Willie Geist
Well, I mean, they already set those records in Donald Trump's first term. And now if you are on Capitol Hill and you claim to be a conservative, fiscal conservative, you cannot vote for this bill. I mean, I can't tell you how many times I was, you know, shoved in back corners of leaders offices and said, you have to do this or just can't do it. Like, we determined we were going to balance the budget even if it meant that we were going to lose all support from everybody in the leadership. And we did. And we still got reelected and we balanced the budget. And these guys are sitting there and every say, what can I do? What can I, My party's coming on. The president came down. You can say no. You can just say no. I mean, it worked for us. And by the way, you don't need a ton of people to do it. We had like 11 people, 11 hard no votes. And there aren't two or three people that don't want to add like that don't that are going to go along with adding 10, 20 trillion dollars to the national debt. I'm telling you, the crisis that's going to ensue from this fiscal insanity over the past 20 years, I've got to say push mainly when Republicans are in office. If you add up the numbers, we're going to come to a cliff, we're going to fall over and it's all going to come back to this vote. This is the time they have to get serious. Moody's is downgrading us. You've got Ray Dalio and others on Wall street warning it's much worse than you think it is.
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Mike Barnicle
Jamie diamond, too.
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Willie Geist
Jamie Dimon's getting a little warning. This is not a close call. 37 trillion going toward $38 trillion. And I swear to God, I say it every year. And every year they pass crazy budgets. I don't get it.
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Mike Barnicle
And it's a fiscal crisis potentially. But also, Mika, a political one with some of these Republicans, especially in those swing districts, saying, you're going to ask me to vote for something that gives a massive tax cut to rich people and to corporations.
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Katty Kay
Right.
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Mike Barnicle
But make all of these other cuts somehow to make up for it. You want me to get rid of a bunch of Medicaid for people?
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Katty Kay
Oh my God, that's not going to.
- [08:09]
Mike Barnicle
Work for me politically. Some of these Republicans are saying let's.
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Katty Kay
Bring in us special correspondent for BBC News and the host of the Rest Is Politics podcast, Katty Kay, the host of Way Too Early, Capitol Hill reporter as well, Ali Vitale and chief White House correspondent for the New York Times, Peter Baker. Ali, let's start with you and get the lay of the land of what's happening in Congress with this situation right now.
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Ali Vitale
Yeah, they're keeping way too early in Morning Joe hours and we love to see it. Honestly, I love when more people are awake with us. But look, they're actually quite behind schedule here in the Rules Committee. They were expecting all of these amendments to be introduced by like 5 or 6 o' clock this morning. They're still hearing from the more senior members on some of these committees. There you see Jim McGovern, who's one of the Democrats on the Rules Committee holding court there. As this Rules Committee hearing continues on. There's the procedural piece of what we're going to see this morning. It's going to look like more testimonials from Democrats, Democrats and Republicans alike. But then it's also going to be the introduction, introduction of hundreds of amendments. We could potentially see some votes on those in the Rules Committee later this morning. And then what we're really anticipating is this so called managers amendment that the speaker or another member of Republican leadership will basically drop into this bill and it will show the concessions and negotiations that he that Johnson has been having with key members of the Republican conference. So I would imagine that one of the things we see in there is the agreement that they've come to on salt, at least our understanding is that the SALT cap deduction would be raised to $40,000 for people making less than $500,000 a year and then it would go up 1% annually and then stay there after 10 years. So a win for the Salt Caucus or at least one that they could get behind despite being told to drop it. And then the other piece of this that we're waiting to see is what happened with Medicaid work requirements. The concern from some hardline conservatives was that these new restrictions didn't snap in soon enough. And so they wanted to see those CL come into play sooner. Chip Roy and Ralph Norman and other hardliners that we often talk about have been negotiating hard on pieces like that that could be cost, cost saving mechanisms that assuage some of their concerns on the deficit. But I have to tell you, I think that Joe's read on the converse on this situation is right, which is that despite people who have been deficit hawks, Trump coming in and saying just pass this thing honestly is likely enough here. And it doesn't tackle a lot of the deficit concerns that these conservatives said that they care about.
- [10:39]
Mike Barnicle
So, Peter Baker, you had the president of the United States yesterday just telling every Republican it's time to get on board, enough, let's get this one big beautiful bill, as they're calling it, through Congress. He's asking, though, as Joe and I were just discussing conservative Republicans to vote for something that projects almost $4 trillion added to the deficit over the next decade or so. So I guess the question is, do you stick to your principles as a conservative or loyalty to the president?
- [11:07]
Peter Baker
Well, I mean, look, you know, what we've seen time and time again is that some of these hard right conservatives will make their displeasure known with bills like this. They'll gum up the works for a while, but then Trump will come in, crack the whip, and ultimately they go along. And so far, there's nothing to suggest that Trump doesn't continue to have, you know, the dominant hand in this party. That's why he, they sent him to the Hill yesterday. He's not negotiating. He doesn't know the details probably all that well. It's not his thing. His thing is there to go up there and say, look, guys, time's up, enough of this, get on board. And he has made clear to them the consequences if they don't. Those who don't get on board when he counts, when he's paying attention, they get primaries, or at least that's the threat. And they know that he sometimes makes good on that and the fact that he has more popularity among their constituents than they do. So it's a technique that's worked for him over the years. It's also worth remembering that you're asking these House members, these Republicans, to take a vote on something that's not even going to last. This is not going to be the final version of the bill. It's going to go to the Senate. Senate's going to do a very different thing with it. We don't know exactly how it'll be different, but you may end up as a House member taking a vote to do something that won't be in the final bill, but you'll pay a cost for it politically back home anyway.
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Willie Geist
Yeah. And Caddy, as I said yesterday, that happened to Democrats in 1993. They were BTU'd, as they said, where they were forced to vote for something in the House that didn't even survive the Senate bill and it ended up costing them. And it's so fascinating this. Here we are 10 years later still saying the same thing, where there are some members in districts that need to go along with Donald Trump to win the primary. But going along with something like this bill will likely make some of these people that want in Biden districts actually endangered politically and most likely will make them lose the election. And we just keep seeing this cycle over and over again and you just wonder when people actually start worrying about, one, what's best for the country and two, what gives them the best chance to win a general election.
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Kristi Noem
Yeah, I mean, why is Mike Lawlor pushing for more salt deductions? Because he's living in a blue state where Donald Trump pushed up the tax costs for people living in his district and he knows that he has to campaign against that. But you're right on what's best for the country. I mean, the warning signs are everywhere. That trip I just took talking to European business business members, this was a topic of conversation, Joe, that came up repeatedly, like, what is the health of the American economy? Should we now be looking at reweighting our investments out of the United States? The American market has been fantastic for investors ever since 2008. It's been booming. But there's a real sense around the world now, particularly in Europe, that this is not the place to put your money. America is too risky. And the thing that is risky is partly the politics are too volatile and the tariffs, but the other thing that is risky is this underlying financial irresponsibility. The debt is just out of control. So, Peter, to you, when members are debating these issues, just to Joe's point, how many of them are actually just thinking about their short term survival and how many are thinking this is actually potential? I mean, there are a lot of warning bells out there. Ray Dalio is not the only one who's saying this is a crisis looming. How many of them are thinking, my God, this could be something really serious that we're on the brink of, well.
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Peter Baker
You'Ve never lost money making bets in Washington on short term imperatives over long term health of a country. No question about that. And you're right, they're looking at what happens in the next two years, not what happens the next 10 years, not what happens next 20 years. Remember Elon Musk told us in last year's campaign that they would be cutting the deficit, not adding to it. He was asked at that Madison Square Garden rally right before the election. I was there, how much would we cut out of the deficit if Trump gets elected? He said, we'll cut $2 trillion out of the $6 trillion annual spending from the government. Instead, of course, rather than cutting anything that will change the overall fiscal picture, they're adding to it. They've made a lot of cuts, they've heard a lot of agencies throwing a lot of people out of work, but they're simply adding to the deficit anyway through big spending on certain items that they care about and through tax cuts that will cost the treasury even more money over the next 10 years than previously. So the truth is this has been a bipartisan issue for lot of years. There's not been much of a constituency for long term fiscal health in this country. Really since the 90s when Joe was in Congress, really since the Bill Clinton Republican Congress era when they balanced the budget. It has not been a political imperative to care much about the deficit. Frankly, for either party. They give lip service to it. But the last serious effort to make any real dent in the deficit was more than a decade ago during Obama's presidency. Didn't last very long. That's been a victory of short term over long term for quite a while now.
- [16:04]
Mike Barnicle
The pressure from the White House is real. They put out a list yesterday targeting Republicans saying 20 reasons Congress must unite behind this bill going through them one by one. That Donald Trump, the president was there in person to do it himself, but also wanting to distance himself from the parts of it that are going to be unpopular, saying, don't mess around with Medicaid. He used an expletive to them. But this does mess around with Medicaid.
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Willie Geist
Of course it does.
- [16:28]
Mike Barnicle
There are pieces of this that are going to be deeply unpopular and cost people their jobs. And to underline something Peter said, this may be an academic debate because Republicans in the Senate have said, we're not voting for this.
- [16:39]
Willie Geist
Yeah, I mean, they are. They're going after Medicaid in a very, very aggressive way. And it's not just work requirements. And so the idea that it's like, oh, waste, fraud and abuse. No, it's what everybody. So you know, anytime they're great with the debt going up, they go, we're cutting waste, fraud and abuse. And then you look at the numbers, there's nothing there. Which also reminds me, we're talking about Elon Musk and here's the guy. Yeah, they were saying, oh, we're going to cut 2 trillion. And we said, no, you're not. Oh, yeah, we're going to cut 2 trillion. I was saying inside the administration now you're not. Maybe you get 100 billion, maybe, maybe there's not a serious person in Washington D.C. that believed anything that, that Elon Musk said because they knew the money wasn't there. Unless you go after defense, whether you don't extend the tax cuts for the rich, whether you go after Social Security, whether you go after Medicare, whether you go after Medicaid, whether you figure out how to reform entitlements in a way that doesn't savage the American people, but they just didn't put the work into it. And so what do they do? I mean, this is, it's ghastly. You have the richest billionaire in the world, a chainsaw wielding South African immigrant, coming to America wielding a chainsaw. Doesn't understand our government, doesn't understand how it works. Obviously from a lot of things. He tweets, he doesn't understand the Constitution and the richest man in the world decides he's going to show fiscal prudence by taking food out of the mouths of the poorest starving children on the planet. I mean, it's just what's happening. I mean, the idea that they're going after USAID to cut the budget, the money's just not there.
- [18:38]
Mike Barnicle
Rounding error.
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Willie Geist
Rounding error. And they're desperate to figure out how to give tax cuts to the richest people. Billionaires, multinational corporations, like people who run tech monopolies. I mean, you could make this up. Like a Democrat who would said this, nobody would believe that this would happen. It is happening. And Republicans are setting themselves up like dominoes to be knocked down.
- [19:10]
Mike Barnicle
It's kind of what these, some of these Republicans are saying, you are setting us up. We're going to lose our seats and then you never, you're not going to have the votes two years from now in anything you want to do. But that seems to be falling on deaf ears at the White House. By the way, Elon Musk was challenged in an interview yesterday by Bloomberg and exactly what you're saying. You said a trillion dollars. We Ran the numbers, you're never going to get close. And he sort of had a meltdown and insulted the reporter because the math just doesn't work.
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Willie Geist
It never added up. I mean, anybody that spent five minutes, like looking at a budget, trying to figure out how to balance it would know that's not where the money is. I mean, you're looking at the things that people go govern maybe 9, 10% of the entire budget as people say, you know, as some people have dryly said about the United States government, it's an insurance company with a military. And it is, I mean, again, 90% Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, defense and interest on the debt. And you're 90% there. So they say, okay, we're going to savage the 10% that people actually need, whether it's education, whether it's Veterans affairs, whether it's, you know, you go down the list, basic health care for the poorest among us. There's not the money there. I remember. I'm sorry. I'll just say one final thing about Medicaid. I was a very conservative Republican in 1995. Contract with America was going through. I voted yes on most of the things. Balanced budget, go down the list. And they got to cutting Medicaid. And their big thing was, we've got to balance the budget, we're going to cut Medicaid. And even 1995 version of me said, you're saying that we've got a national deficit because we give the poor too much. That's funny. I mean, the world's changed since then. Then it was less rural and more urban. Now the benefit goes more to red state America, to Donald Trump's America. So again, I.
- [21:18]
Katty Kay
They're gonna feel the cut people.
- [21:20]
Willie Geist
Why is he going on and on about this? Cuz I can't believe Republicans are going to allow themselves to walk into this.
- [21:25]
Katty Kay
Political gauntlet and show constituents exactly who.
- [21:29]
Willie Geist
They are, exactly who they are, and exactly what they're not. Not conservative. You vote for this bill on the deficit, on the debt, you're not conservative. Forever not conservative.
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Katty Kay
All right, and the host of Way Too Early, Ali Vitale and Peter Baker of the New York Times, thank you both very much for your insights and reporting this morning. And still ahead on Morning Joe, Secretary of State Marco Rubio defends the Trump administration's foreign policy as he gets grilled by Democrats during a tense Senate hearing. We'll show you some of those exchanges. Plus, does Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem understand the meaning of habeas corpus? We'll take a Look at her response when asked to define that legal principle. Also ahead, he was best known as as Norm on the hit sitcom Cheers. Emmy nominated actor George Wendt has passed away at the age of 76. We'll take a closer look at his career and a quick reminder that the Morning Joe podcast is available each weekday featuring our full conversations and analysis.
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Willie Geist
It'll change their life, won't it?
- [22:38]
Mike Barnicle
Yeah.
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Katty Kay
I know a lot of people who.
- [22:41]
Willie Geist
Listen to Back Swing and this is what I don't believe.
- [22:44]
Katty Kay
Make fun of our podcast.
- [22:45]
Willie Geist
It reverses male pattern. Bald.
- [22:47]
Katty Kay
I Everybody look at me. I was bald last week.
- [22:49]
Willie Geist
Listen to the podcast.
- [22:51]
Katty Kay
Didn't know I had a podcast. All right, you can listen wherever you get your podcast. We're back in 90 seconds.
- [22:59]
Willie Geist
You're going to miss the White House at all.
- [23:02]
Mike Barnicle
My rough plan on the White House.
- [23:03]
Willie Geist
Is to be there for a couple.
- [23:06]
Mika Brzezinski
Days every, every, every few weeks and.
- [23:09]
Mike Barnicle
To be helpful where I can be helpful.
- [23:14]
Joe Scarborough
Stay connected with the MSNBC app bringing you breaking news and analysis anytime, anywhere.
- [23:20]
Katty Kay
All the stories that we're covering are live and happening as we speak.
- [23:25]
Joe Scarborough
Watch your favorite shows live.
- [23:26]
Willie Geist
What's happening right now is a hostile takeover of the US Government.
- [23:31]
Joe Scarborough
Read live blogs and in depth essays and listen to coverage as it unfolds. Go beyond the what to understand the why. Download the app now@msnbc.com app hey everyone, it's Chris Hayes.
- [23:44]
Willie Geist
This week on my podcast, why is this Happening? We discuss tax fights within the GOP with Lever Time podcast host Arjun Singh. This is a really fascinating point in Republican politics because I think first and foremost what it tells you is that the Republican Party has been a party of tax cuts. It's clearly the party of Donald Trump.
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Mika Brzezinski
And when Donald Trump says jump a lot of Republicans at least and his expectations should say, how high does it fit with their tax cutting agenda?
- [24:11]
Willie Geist
It doesn't make sense in that party. It only makes sense that the president.
- [24:14]
Mika Brzezinski
Wants to cut a deal and he's.
- [24:16]
Willie Geist
Asking him to do that any way possible. That's this week on why is this Happening? Search for why is this Happening?
- [24:21]
Peter Baker
Wherever you're listening right now and follow.
- [24:26]
Willie Geist
What do you say, Norm? Well, I never met a beer I didn't drink. And on it goes. Evening, everybody.
- [24:38]
Katty Kay
Norman.
- [24:38]
Willie Geist
What's your pleasure, Mr. Peterson?
- [24:40]
Mike Barnicle
Boxer shorts and loose shoes for a beer?
- [24:45]
Willie Geist
Afternoon, Everybody. How's life, Mr. Peterson? I'm waiting for the movie. Evening, everybody. What can I do for you, Mr. Peterson? Elope with my wife?
- [24:59]
Mika Brzezinski
What do you think?
- [25:01]
Willie Geist
Afternoon, everybody.
- [25:05]
Mike Barnicle
Hey, what's happening, Norm?
- [25:06]
Willie Geist
It's a dog eat dog world, Sammy. And I'm wearing milk bone underwear.
- [25:12]
Mike Barnicle
Norm. That's beloved actor George Wendt, known best of course as Norm on Cheers. He died yesterday at the age of 76. NBC News national correspondent Morgan Chesky has a look back at Wendt's life and career.
- [25:28]
Katty Kay
Afternoon, everybody.
- [25:29]
Willie Geist
Oh, no. In a place where everybody knew his name, George Wint made all our troubles feel the same as the lovable Norm at the Boston bar, Cheers. Wint was never without a beer or a trademark one line.
- [25:44]
Mike Barnicle
Hey, what's happening, Norm?
- [25:45]
Willie Geist
It's a dog eat dog world, Sammy. And I'm wearing milk bone underwear. Went nominated for an Emmy for six.
- [25:52]
Joe Scarborough
Consecutive years over the show's 11 season run.
- [25:58]
Willie Geist
One of the great perks of employment history. I get free beer wherever I go. Born in Chicago, the beloved everyman found.
- [26:05]
Joe Scarborough
His footing on stage at the famed Second City.
- [26:08]
Willie Geist
But it wasn't until he landed Cheers in 1982 Wint became a household name, appearing in everything from movies to Michael Jackson music videos and Saturday Night Live. The Bears. The Bears.
- [26:22]
Joe Scarborough
A family spokesman confirming Wint passed away peacefully at home.
- [26:26]
Willie Geist
Here's co star Ted Danson sharing he's.
- [26:28]
Joe Scarborough
Devastated and sending love to Wint's wife and children.
- [26:32]
Willie Geist
You know what I think the most.
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Mike Barnicle
Important thing in life is?
- [26:36]
Willie Geist
Love. You want to know what I love?
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Katty Kay
Beer, Norm.
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Willie Geist
Yeah. That was a quick one. Fans poured one out for the one and only.
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Katty Kay
That was NBC's Morgan Chesky reporting. All right, 26 past the hourless. Bring in the co host of our fourth hour, Jonathan Lemire. And look at this.
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Willie Geist
It's big.
- [27:03]
Katty Kay
I mean, Norm, he's our Norm. He's his up late.
- [27:07]
Jonathan Lemire
There you go.
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Willie Geist
I'll take it to Cannon's. Cliff Clavin. There you go. A poor man spins. It's hard for people to. We were just talking about it. This was, this was one of the last great stretches of television and its glory days. I remember watching this show first season, loving it, but thinking it was going to be canceled because nobody else was watching it, you know, except a handful of people. And NBC had the wisdom to say, no, no, we think there's something here. And I will tell you that just that became an institution of the 80s. And when you went to Boston, the first place you had to go after going to Fenway, you had to go, where's the Cheers bar? Still and still and still. I had a friend actually that we went to see a Red Sox game this year. He goes, I got to see the Cheers bar.
- [28:04]
Jonathan Lemire
You Know, I think I might be wrong, but I think Grant Tinker was the head of programming for NBC at the time, and he stuck with Cheers at its inception, its first season. And every character. And I know you haven't. You two kids haven't watched it a lot.
- [28:19]
Mika Brzezinski
No, I'm gonna push back. This was my favorite show too.
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Katty Kay
Okay.
- [28:23]
Jonathan Lemire
Every character was perfect.
- [28:25]
Willie Geist
Yeah, every character.
- [28:26]
Jonathan Lemire
Woody Harrelson's character, the fireman in it, you know, George went. Cliff Clavin, Sam Malone, the bartender, Diane the.
- [28:37]
Willie Geist
His girlfriend, Shelly Long, Ted Dance. Just. I mean, everybody.
- [28:41]
Jonathan Lemire
Everything.
- [28:41]
Willie Geist
Everything was perfect about it. And you know, John, the thing also that made it so great is it was a comedy. But there were also times the writing was so damn good. I remember when Coach, the older guy at the bar, was talking to his daughter about how beautiful she was. I don't think anybody watching that wasn't crying at home. And it was just. It was an extraordinary show. And George went was such an important part of that.
- [29:11]
Mika Brzezinski
Yeah, the show had a lot of heart beyond being just clever and outrageously funny. And the writing was so good. They introduced Frasier Crane, of course. And the thing that it was my parents favorite show at the time. I got into it and then caught up later in reruns. It was always so clever about. They'd set up a joke and you'd think it was going one way and they'd spin it the other. And it was just. It was always. It always got a laugh. And the Norm characters is iconic. And I think it's actually. We showed the montage to entrances to the bar and fitting. The final scene of the show is actually just Sam Malone and Norm saying goodbye to the show and to the cast. Yeah. Certainly a wonderful career beyond Norm, too.
- [29:47]
Mike Barnicle
And so simple. It was almost a play. I mean, we think of like TV now as cinematic Netflix and everything else. They're just on a stage and the characters walk in and out for all those seasons.
- [29:58]
Willie Geist
You know, the amazing thing about how great the writing was and how great the producing was, I think when I'm a little slow, of course, but it takes you about two or three seasons to go. Wait, just what you said. They've got one set, they hardly ever leave it. And the writing is so damn good. It keeps you there. And of course also had one of the best, most successful spin offs ever in Frasier. I mean, the whole thing was just extraordinary. And they piled up Emmys and Emmy nominations. And speaking of that, so too did the Barnacle Boys last night. Oh, my God. Thank you.
- [30:40]
Jonathan Lemire
Yes, they won an Emmy. Oh, you were on the best sports documentary.
- [30:43]
Katty Kay
Wait, Mike, how are you? You must be tired, right?
- [30:45]
Jonathan Lemire
I am, but I'm always tired, generally.
- [30:49]
Mika Brzezinski
Mostly.
- [30:49]
Willie Geist
Well, I go back to the picture.
- [30:51]
Katty Kay
Back to the picture.
- [30:51]
Willie Geist
So tell us, tell us what they won for. Look at that.
- [30:54]
Jonathan Lemire
They won for a documentary called the Comeback.
- [30:58]
Willie Geist
Yeah.
- [31:00]
Jonathan Lemire
A three part documentary on Netflix that surprised everyone because sports documentaries don't usually shoot to the top of the top 10 Netflix list. And if it does, falls off right away. But this stuck on there and it told a terrific story that was about more than baseball. It was about, don't give up, come back.
- [31:19]
Katty Kay
Yes.
- [31:19]
Mika Brzezinski
2004, I mean, captured the most important week of my life. So congratulations to The Barnacle Boys. 2004 Red Sox. William remembers it last month.
- [31:30]
Mike Barnicle
I sort of scrolled through it quickly. Yeah. Congratulations.
- [31:34]
Willie Geist
Congratulations.
- [31:36]
Jonathan Lemire
Thank you.
- [31:36]
Katty Kay
It's good you're here. You might be a little. We'll get you an extra coffee. Thank you. Yeah. No leaving. All right, coming up, the Justice Department has opened a criminal investigation into former New York Governor Andrew Cuomo. We'll dig into that and how this could affect his bid for New York City mayor. Morning Joe will be right back.
- [32:04]
Joe Scarborough
MSNBC's Jen Psaki, host of the Briefing.
- [32:07]
Willie Geist
We've never experienced a moment like this in our country, and it leaves us all with a choice. Are we going to speak out or are we going to be pressured into silence? I've worked for presidents.
- [32:16]
Katty Kay
I've faced the tough questions from the.
- [32:18]
Willie Geist
Press and even threats from the Kremlin and the. And if there's one thing I've learned, it's that you can't cower to bullies. You don't need to be hopeless. We have our voices and I will continue using mine.
- [32:27]
Joe Scarborough
The Briefing with Jen Psaki, Tuesday through Friday at 9:00pm Eastern on MSNBC.
- [32:39]
Katty Kay
All right. We are coming into New York City at 36 past the hour. Welcome back to Morning Joe. The Department of Justice kind of looks like the Matrix.
- [32:47]
Willie Geist
I don't know, kind of gram. Yeah.
- [32:50]
Katty Kay
Well, our next story is about New York City to an extent.
- [32:53]
Willie Geist
Look at this. Look at this. This is a matrix. Yeah, exactly.
- [32:56]
Katty Kay
I like it. All right.
- [32:58]
Willie Geist
Trying to do a Matrix reference today, Willie. Yesterday I talked about Matrix.
- [33:03]
Mike Barnicle
It's twice this every day.
- [33:04]
Willie Geist
Every. Let's do it every day.
- [33:05]
Mike Barnicle
Okay.
- [33:06]
Willie Geist
Now, did you see.
- [33:06]
Katty Kay
Is there a reason for this?
- [33:07]
Willie Geist
Not many people like. Yeah. Do you ever see Matrix?
- [33:11]
Mike Barnicle
Oh, yeah.
- [33:11]
Willie Geist
You saw three?
- [33:12]
Katty Kay
Three.
- [33:13]
Mike Barnicle
Yeah. Yeah.
- [33:13]
Katty Kay
Okay.
- [33:14]
Willie Geist
Yeah.
- [33:14]
Mike Barnicle
Oh, my God.
- [33:15]
Ali Vitale
I saw three.
- [33:16]
Mika Brzezinski
But I, I just. As I said, the Other day. I think the quality of the sequels did decline as we went. But the first one's brilliant.
- [33:23]
Mike Barnicle
I love groundbreaking.
- [33:24]
Willie Geist
I love the third one. I love the first and the third. I just. Yeah, we're gonna talk about it every day. Because most people haven't seen it, so I haven't.
- [33:31]
Katty Kay
And I don't think I missed much.
- [33:32]
Willie Geist
Day and age, so I like, let's keep it down in the weeds. I just.
- [33:36]
Mika Brzezinski
It's been 20 years since they came out, so now's a good time to revisit it.
- [33:38]
Mike Barnicle
People don't realize how they. The first one revolutionized.
- [33:40]
Willie Geist
Oh, my God.
- [33:42]
Mike Barnicle
Today, for granted. Are because of the first.
- [33:45]
Willie Geist
Because of the Matrix. Yeah. I mean, but you take the Matrix coming out and you take Fight Club about the same time.
- [33:52]
Jonathan Lemire
Ooh.
- [33:52]
Willie Geist
Just defines.
- [33:54]
Katty Kay
Yes, I think I did see that.
- [33:55]
Willie Geist
Sort of the late 1990s LA. I mean, it was incredible. But now, zip it. Everything that has a beginning.
- [34:03]
Katty Kay
Oh, I've got a coffee.
- [34:04]
Willie Geist
That's an end. Come on, man. Man. All right, so what happened was. If you. If you haven't seen it, Mika, what happened was the oracle actually got inside Smith's head.
- [34:17]
Katty Kay
Let me tell you something.
- [34:18]
Willie Geist
And she tricked him a little inside.
- [34:20]
Katty Kay
Baseball cookies. This doesn't stop after the show.
- [34:24]
Mike Barnicle
Like, people who make the red pill reference today, do they even know that that comes from the Matrix? I don't know.
- [34:29]
Willie Geist
Yeah, exactly.
- [34:30]
Katty Kay
Yes. All right, thank you. Back to the news now. The Department of Justice has opened a criminal investigation into former New York Governor Andrew Cuomo.
- [34:39]
Willie Geist
Okay, hold on. If you're keeping square at home. So the Justice Department in a couple months, they. They've opened an investigation into Cuomo, who's probably going to be New York's next mayor. We heard about an investigation into Chuck Schumer, like, the day Donald Trump got inaugurated. Who was Ed Martin? Was he the guy?
- [35:04]
Kristi Noem
Yeah.
- [35:04]
Willie Geist
Said I'm going to investigate.
- [35:05]
Katty Kay
He's gone now.
- [35:06]
Willie Geist
Chuck Schumer. No, no.
- [35:08]
Katty Kay
Is he back? He's better than ever.
- [35:12]
Willie Geist
So Schumer and of course, and now a Democratic congresswoman. We're going to be talking to Democratic mayor of Newark, who I guess they arrested and then released and dismissed the charges. And I mean.
- [35:25]
Mike Barnicle
I mean, don't forget Bruce Springsteen. The president wants an investigation.
- [35:29]
Willie Geist
Going to be investigated.
- [35:30]
Katty Kay
Okay, Can I continue, please? Thanks. The probe is focused on congressional testimony that Cuomo gave last year. That is, according to a person familiar with the matter who spoke to NBC News. Republicans in the House requested the investigation, alleging the former Democratic governor lied to the Oversight Committee. When he said he wasn't involved in reviewing a New York Health Department report on the state's handling of the coronavirus pandemic. The investigation comes just one month before the Democratic primary in New York City's mayoral election.
- [36:04]
Willie Geist
Wait, one month? Wait, wait. Just one month.
- [36:08]
Katty Kay
That'd be just a few weeks.
- [36:09]
Willie Geist
But wait, I don't understand. All I heard during the 2024 election was you can't do anything to release. So now this Justice Department's doing one month. Yeah, but this one you don't understand. Willie the Matrix. So she makes those cookies and she knows he's coming, right? Why did she make the cookies? No, here's what you don't understand. They have to know. This assures Andrew Cuomo of being the next mayor of New York City. Like, they have to know. They are getting him. Like, this is what they kept laughing at Democrats about a year ago. You do understand you're getting Donald Trump elected President of the United States by putting him on trial. Now they. Why don't they get a crown and put it on Cuomo's head that says.
- [36:57]
Mike Barnicle
Mr. Mayor, he doesn't have to run ads anymore.
- [37:00]
Willie Geist
Doesn't have to be.
- [37:02]
Mike Barnicle
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [37:03]
Katty Kay
Okay.
- [37:04]
Mike Barnicle
It's. Yeah. I mean, the. The fact that they're. I think there's some questions targeting Cuomo this close to the election, I don't fully understand what the idea is, except that maybe they've accepted that he's going to be the mayor and they want him tangled up in legal problems at the beginning. I don't know.
- [37:20]
Mika Brzezinski
This would be the second consecutive mayor that they had. I mean, let's remember, Eric Adams is another one, you know, has.
- [37:25]
Willie Geist
Well, he worked hard.
- [37:26]
Mika Brzezinski
He did.
- [37:27]
Willie Geist
He worked hard for his.
- [37:28]
Mika Brzezinski
But the Trump DOJ investigation, the Trump doj, of course, you know, a deal was cut. There was suggestions that that Adams was beholden to the Trump administration because of the way the charges were filed. Now, eventually it was tossed out, but Adams, you know, who. Again, some of this predates Trump, but some of the allegations of corruption. But this would be the second straight mayor where Donald Trump's Department of Justice has attempted to put a thumb on. But you're right, it is certainly in this race, perhaps a political gift to Andrew Cuomo. He is the front of. He is facing a slightly tougher race than expected from a progressive candidate. Well, not anymore, but maybe not anymore, but he still has a pretty solid lead in the polls. It's a ranked choice voting primary. So that's always a little complicated. But a month Out. Cuomo is the clear favorite. This can only help.
- [38:12]
Willie Geist
Yeah. And, Mike, of course, the question's not whether there are questions not about his handling of COVID Right.
- [38:19]
Katty Kay
Which. There are a lot of questions.
- [38:20]
Willie Geist
There are a lot of questions about his handling of COVID A lot of. Lot of people I know, friends I know, still blame him for the death of their parents, grandparents, the things that he said, the policies that he pursued. This, again, this is about one month before the election, and I've got to say, just the inability of whoever decided, decided to release this information, maybe just not understanding. They have just put him through the Democratic primary. It's over.
- [38:50]
Jonathan Lemire
I would propose that there's an even larger issue involved here, and it's that one political party, the Republicans who control the House of Representatives, are literally not just in this case, but in other specific cases, are basically undermining the government of the United States of America. They are unloosening. They're loosening the knots, nuts and bolts of the foundations of this country by tampering with stuff like this, injecting themselves politically into a situation like this with clear political motives. I don't know whether the country is still sleepwalking through this, but some of these things that are going on are truly incredulous.
- [39:29]
Willie Geist
Well, again, a month before the election, after every argument we heard last year on why it shouldn't be within six months or a year before an election.
- [39:39]
Katty Kay
All right. Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem failed to define habeas corpus, the constitutional right against unlawful detention. Noem was asked about the constitutional protection by Democratic Senator Maggie Hassan of New Hampshire after pointing out that White House adviser Stephen Miller told reporters earlier this month that the administration was actively looking. Looking at suspending habeas corpus. So, Secretary Noem, what is habeas corpus? Well, habeas corpus is a constitutional right that the president has to be able to remove people from this country. Let me stop, ma' am. Habeas corpus. Excuse me, That's. That's incorrect, President. Habeas corpus. Excuse me. Habeas corpus is the legal principle that requires that the government provide a public reason for detaining and imprisoning people. If not for that protection, the government could simply arrest people, including American citizens, and hold them indefinitely for no reason. Habeas corpus is the foundational right that separates free societies like America from police states like North Korea. So, Secretary Noem, do you support the core protection that habeas corpus provides? That the government must provide a public reason in order to detain and imprison Some. Someone. Yeah, I support habeas corpus. I also recognize that the President of the United States has the authority under the Constitution to decide if it should be suspended or not. Katty Kay, after Senator Hassan there defined it for her, what do you make of her answer?
- [41:21]
Kristi Noem
Look, I watched this. There's no way that Kristi Noem went into that hearing without being briefed by her staff. Right? I mean, principals are prepped when they go into briefings like that. It seems to me unlikely that she didn't know what habeas corpus is. So you then have to think, was she acting for an audience of one and just trying to make her boss happy with her redefinition of it? If that's the cynic of me, and maybe I've been in Washington too long, but otherwise, she just was dumb and didn't know something that is basic about American law that she clearly should know, particularly given the position she's in and given all of the cases and the amount of times habeas corpus has come up in political and legal discussion in this town in the last couple of months, I think she was. I think she was performing.
- [42:07]
Willie Geist
You know, there are a lot of surprises that we've had over the past three months. I think you're being very gracious, by the way. So, anyway, there are a lot of things that have surprised Americans over the last three months and a lot of things that. That people have gone, oh, my God, you know, what's. Where's the America that I grew up knowing? I'll tell you one thing that I have been so heartened by is the fact that so many Americans have shown pollsters, politicians, everybody else, they understand what due process is. They understand what habeas corpus is. They get it as they're right. And I will keep going back to William Gson, Wall Street Journal op ed, where he said, elites, they don't think Americans understand the due process, that debate. And he said, he showed some poll results. He said, oh, no, they understand. They understand, and they like it very much. They understand what separates America from most of the countries across the world. And you look at Abrego Garcia, you look at that situation where in most polls, you know, the White House is upside down by like 20 points because, again, they don't love Abrego Garcia. But they're like, they said what the Supreme Court said. Can't just throw somebody on a plane and make them disappear into an El Salvador prison. And so in this respect, the American people are proving to be pretty stubborn about their rights, their Due process rights.
- [43:42]
Mika Brzezinski
Yeah. And it's a fundamental right and something that is part of the American foundation. And, and we know, we've talked about on this show the Trump White House reflexively, always, when they want to change the subject, they always go back to immigration. I think that's his signature issue. That's what's got him elected a couple of times, they believe. And they did so with a real shock and awe approach this time. Yes, violating due process, but also those slickly produced promotional videos of those prisoners being put in, heads shaved, being put into that El Salvador prison. And that's backfired. Polls suggest that Americans don't like that outside of perhaps the very core manga base. And there's a recognition even in the White House, some of the people like I've talked to. This is Stephen Miller's plan. He's the lead architect of this, but he's had support from others that it hasn't quite landed the way they want. It doesn't mean they're gonna adjust approaches. And they haven't yet. They're certainly still trying to deport migrants without due process to other places. But this hasn't been the political winner that they hoped it would be.
- [44:35]
Willie Geist
Well, and there hasn't been the consistency because as Meek and I have explained in some of our off the record discussions with White House House, it's very clear that Donald Trump had told people around him, I want to avoid those pictures of mothers being separated from their children. So. And telling people around him that did me no favors in the first term. But again, there seems to be an inconsistency approach because there's also the belief that these slick videos that have been highly produced of this seizure and dropping in notorious El Salvador prison. I didn't quite. And the words, as we keep going to pop culture and the words of Will Ferrell and the other guys, that didn't turn out the way you expected, did it? I mean, it's upside down.
- [45:36]
Jonathan Lemire
It's interesting what moves the needle on this. And it's visuals stuff. I mean, there was a young woman, tough graduate student in Medford, Massachusetts, walking from her apartment to a meeting, this is about six weeks or so ago. And all of a sudden two black SUVs pull up alongside her. Snatcher put her in the SUV, by the way.
- [45:58]
Willie Geist
Unidentified and it's on a cell phone. Yeah. And again. UNIDENTIFIED this doesn't look like America. And what if that's your daughter? What if that's your daughter and this is normal in the United States. Everybody that looks every father that looks at that is thinking, okay, what if that's my daughter? And she's asking, who are you? Who are you? And they just say, come with me. And nobody's showing them any identification, nobody's doing anything, and they dump her in a car. I mean, that's just, again, I don't care what your ideology is. I don't care if you're like me. And I actually believe the border is there for a reason and people shouldn't come here illegally. That's not how you proceed in this country.
- [46:42]
Jonathan Lemire
That's why they're not getting the bounce off this thing that they thought they were going to get to Jonathan's point.
- [46:47]
Katty Kay
All right, still ahead, we're going to have the latest in former President Joe Biden's cancer diagnosis and the growing concerns his health may have been deteriorating while he was in office.
- [46:58]
Willie Geist
By the way, this whole thing, I. Sorry, Mike, will ask you later, but this whole thing, like, I didn't take a psa test since 2014. Why? You're running for President of the United States and you're not taking a PSA test for six years before you're going into the office and then for four years while you're in the office. We'll talk about that in a little bit. But there's no good answer to that. That's either a lie or it's extraordinarily reckless. There's no good answer to that in 2014. And I will say I don't believe it. 2014. I know a lot of guys, they don't go, you know what? I'm going to get my mineral level. I want to see what my potassium level is, but I don't want to know what my PSA is. It just doesn't happen in the real world. It just doesn't happen, especially when you're.
- [47:59]
Mike Barnicle
President of the United States.
- [48:01]
Willie Geist
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm saying even beyond that, it's not how guys think. That's like, and that's not what their doctors tell them. It's like PSA test once every six months. Once every six months. You gotta get it, you gotta. I don't know a doctor that doesn't say that.
- [48:19]
Katty Kay
Yeah.
- [48:20]
Joe Scarborough
So Sir David Frost gave us an intimate look at some of the most compelling personality of our time.
- [48:26]
Willie Geist
We want to involve both world leaders and world entertainers.
- [48:30]
Joe Scarborough
MSNBC Films presents a six part documentary series David Frost versus On the next episode, Elton John.
- [48:39]
Willie Geist
I realized what my flaws are.
- [48:40]
Mika Brzezinski
Now I can do something about them.
- [48:42]
Willie Geist
It's okay to ask for help. I didn't think it was because I thought it was a sign of weakness.
- [48:47]
Joe Scarborough
Sunday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC.