Morning Joe 5/6/25

Summary

Morning Joe Podcast Summary Episode: May 6, 2025 | Hosts: Joe Scarborough, Mika Brzezinski, Willie Geist | Guests: Jonathan Lemire, Mike Barnicle, Dave Weigel, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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1. NBA Showdown: Knicks vs. Celtics Revival (00:00 - 06:20)

The episode kicks off with a lively discussion about the recent NBA playoff game between the New York Knicks and the Boston Celtics. Guests Jonathan Lemire and Mike Barnicle provide in-depth analysis of the game's pivotal moments.

• Mike Barnicle highlights the Celtics' strategic overreliance on three-pointers:

  "[...] the Boston Celtics missing a playoff record 45 three-pointers. They were 15 for 60 in the game. That's their game." (03:18)

• Jonathan Lemire commends the Knicks' resilience:

  "They didn't just pack it in. They showed a lot of fight. They were really physical." (04:05)

• Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC) critiques the Celtics' playstyle:

  "There's something tedious about watching a sport where they come down the court and start taking threes from like half court all night long. What about passing? What about playmaking?" (05:13)

The hosts and guests agree that Jalen Brunson was the standout performer for the Knicks, driving them to a crucial overtime victory and setting the stage for a must-win Game Two.

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2. Air Traffic Chaos at Newark Airport (08:34 - 18:37)

A major segment delves into the ongoing travel disruptions at Newark International Airport, attributing the chaos to outdated FAA systems and recent communication failures.

• Mika Brzezinski introduces the issue:

  "There was a malfunction with Federal Aviation Administration equipment, and air traffic controllers were unable to see, hear, or talk with any aircraft." (08:34)

• Willie Geist laments the antiquated technology:

  "They still use floppy disks. Does Gen Z even know what those are?" (10:26)

• Mike Barnicle criticizes the FAA's modernization efforts:

  "Congress in 2003 directed the FAA to modernize its systems, yet the next-gen overhaul is not set to be complete until 2030." (10:26)

• Dave Weigel echoes the frustration, emphasizing the impending summer travel woes:

  "Get ready for another summer of air traffic delays or worse." (10:26)

The conversation underscores the urgent need for technological upgrades to prevent further disruptions, highlighting Governor Phil Murphy's plea for modernization.

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3. Political Spotlight: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s Strategic Decisions (13:35 - 27:18)

The discussion shifts to Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's recent decision not to seek a top position on the Democratic Oversight Committee, exploring its implications for the party.

• Mika Brzezinski provides background:

  "AOC has been drawing large crowds alongside Senator Bernie Sanders at rallies around the country in opposition to President Trump's policies." (13:35)

• Willie Geist praises AOC's grassroots appeal:

  "I remember a focus group from 2016 where a blue-collar woman said, 'because he’s one of us.'" (23:35)

• Danny Savalos highlights AOC's authenticity:

  "Her authenticity makes her, I think, and I think that goes beyond ages because... she was a young entrepreneurial candidate who challenged a party leader and won." (17:30)

• Jonathan Lemire points out internal party dynamics:

  "The underlying dynamics in this caucus have not shifted with respect to seniority as much as I think would be necessary." (17:08)

• Mike Barnicle analyzes Democratic struggles:

  "Democratic leaders love talking about the President's flagging poll numbers. Their own numbers, not so much." (20:09)

The panel discusses the broader challenges facing the Democratic Party, including disconnects with working-class voters and the struggle to modernize leadership structures. AOC's decision is seen as a strategic move that underscores the need for the party to adapt and appeal authentically to a diverse electorate.

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4. Immigration Policies: DHS’s Voluntary Departure Incentive (30:06 - 42:09)

A heated debate unfolds around President Trump's administration proposal to financially incentivize undocumented immigrants to leave the United States voluntarily.

• Mika Brzezinski introduces the topic:

  "The Department of Homeland Security says it will pay immigrants $1,000 and facilitate travel assistance back to their home country if they use the CBP Home app to voluntarily leave the United States." (38:19)

• Willie Geist expresses skepticism about the plan's implementation:

  "It's not clear how the migrants would actually receive the money... they're going to get down to Honduras and then the money's not going to come." (39:32)

• Dave Weigel explains the legal framework:

  "Federal law allows for even broader and speedy removal than has been used in the past. Expedited removal permits summary deportation without extensive judicial review." (43:46)

• Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez criticizes the administration’s approach:

  "How does that happen to a party?" (21:57)

The discussion highlights the logistical and ethical concerns surrounding the DHS proposal, questioning the feasibility of the payment system and the potential for human rights violations. The panel also draws parallels to previous administrations' immigration strategies, emphasizing the recurring challenges in effectively managing undocumented populations.

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5. Additional News Highlights (31:17 - 38:54)

The hosts briefly cover other significant news stories:

• Russia-Ukraine Tensions:

  "Russia says Ukraine has launched an overnight drone attack targeting Moscow for the second night in a row." (31:56)

• Sean "Diddy" Combs Sex Trafficking Trial:

  "Jury selection is now underway in the Sean Diddy Combs sex trafficking trial." (33:20)

• Skype Shutdown:

  "The once popular video calling service known as Skype has shut down yesterday after more than 20 years." (33:26)

These snippets provide listeners with updates on international conflicts, high-profile legal cases, and significant shifts in the tech industry.

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6. Technology Critique: The Decline of Apple’s User Experience (33:35 - 37:08)

A spirited exchange ensues regarding the perceived decline in Apple's user interface and functionality, particularly focusing on the iPhone and Siri.

• Willie Geist vents his frustration:

  "Siri has gotten Siri's worst. And I will say something else that's happened to the latest generation of the Apple phones... the typing is terrible." (33:57)

• Dave Weigel defends the advancements:

  "I mean, the iPhones are, they're incredible devices and they're computers. The video, all the bells and whistles work great." (35:17)

• Jonathan Lemire concurs with the functional shortcomings:

  "Functionality is not as good. And I agree with you, the typing in particular..." (35:52)

The conversation underscores a nostalgic preference for older technologies like BlackBerry, emphasizing tactile feedback and reliability over modern advancements that may compromise user experience.

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7. Closing Remarks and Future Topics (38:06 - End)

In the closing segment, the hosts outline upcoming stories and events to watch, including the high-stakes meeting between President Trump and Canada’s Prime Minister Mark Carney.

• Mika Brzezinski previews the meeting:

  "A high stakes meeting at the White House today could set the tone for the future relationship between Canada and the United States." (37:13)

• Joe Scarborough promotes MSNBC’s weekend programming and the "Project 47" newsletter:

  "Sign up for the Project 47 [e-mail] Project 47." (38:10)

• Reverend Al Sharpton critiques the administration’s deportation efforts:

  "We're taking them out by the thousands... we're getting them out. It's a very difficult thing with the courts." (38:19)

The episode concludes with a humorous exchange about the merits of the BlackBerry versus the iPhone, leaving listeners anticipating the next episode’s deep dives into pressing national issues.

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Notable Quotes

• Mika Brzezinski on immigration due process:

  "It's a big hearing and it's going." (42:10)

• Willie Geist on Democrats' connection with voters:

  "The Democrats need her more than she needs the Democrats." (17:30)

• Dave Weigel on Trump's administration’s immigration strategy:

  "The border's been quiet... They're just not going to hit their numbers." (40:34)

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Conclusion

This episode of Morning Joe offers a comprehensive look into a variety of topics ranging from sports to critical national issues such as immigration and air traffic control failures. The hosts and guests provide insightful analysis, coupled with candid discussions that resonate with both dedicated listeners and those seeking an informed overview of the day's pressing matters.

Transcript

[Joe Scarborough]

Sir David Frost gave us an intimate look at some of the most compelling personalities of our time.

[Willie Geist]

What makes people tick fascinates me. You can't fake interest. You can't fake curiosity.

[Joe Scarborough]

MSNBC Films presents a six part documentary series, David Frost versus On the next episode, Jane Fonda.

[Mika Brzezinski]

The war is being escalated in the most tragic, cruel way.

[Joe Scarborough]

Sunday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

All I'm saying is that you don't that a young lady, 10 year old girl, 9 year old girl, 15 year old girl, doesn't need 37 dolls. She could be very happy with 2 or 3 or 4 or 5.

[Willie Geist]

Buddy, a 15 year old girl is not going to be happy with two or three or four or five dolls because a 15 year old girl isn't happy with anything.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Now that comes from someone, that comes.

[Willie Geist]

From a experience that is funny.

[Mika Brzezinski]

I will second that. All right. President Trump continues to defend his tariffs and the impact they could have on prices and the supply chain. Later this morning, he'll welcome Canada's newly elected Prime Minister Mark Carney to the White House. We'll preview that high stakes meeting between top trading partners. It comes as the Trump administration is now offering to pay a undocumented migrants to voluntarily leave the United States. It's not clear how the migrants would actually receive the money, but it's an idea. Also ahead, Democratic Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez says she won't seek a top position on a key committee. We'll have her comments on that decision. Plus, we're going to dig into alarming new reporting about communication issues at Newark Airport and how the Trump administration is responding.

[Willie Geist]

Man, that's some terrifying stuff right there.

[Mika Brzezinski]

There are lots of different reports coming out that don't bode well. Not good summer travel at the very least. Good morning and welcome to Morning Joe. It is Tuesday, May 6th. Along with Joe, Willie and me, we have the co host of our fourth hour, Jonathan Lemaire. He's a contributing writer at the Atlantic covering the White House and national politics.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Smile.

[Willie Geist]

Smile. Jon.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Jon, are you okay?

[Willie Geist]

Smile.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Tough night.

[Willie Geist]

Smile. Come on, we'll get to it.

[Mika Brzezinski]

President of the National Action Network and host of MSNBC's Politics Nation, Reverend Al Sharpton. And look at this. I mean, come on. He shows up at 6am after a long night on time.

[Mike Barnicle]

4Am you know what?

[Mika Brzezinski]

MSNBC contributor Mike Barnacle is here along with politics reporter for Semaphore Dave Weigel. Good to have you all.

[Willie Geist]

And we will take note, Willie, Dave Weigel wearing Celtic screen this morning. But let Me tell you, last night though, really. What, What a game. Men of Steel. New York's talking about it. We meet again. The back of the Daily News. Give Jonathan Lemire all the news he doesn't want to hear about on that game.

[Mike Barnicle]

Well, we've already last. John and I communicated last night after the game. We've gotten that out of our systems. Great fight by the New York Knicks. They were down by 20 points in the third quarter. It was 75 to 55. They came back to force overtime. This is the last possession in overtime. Knicks up 3. A steal by Mikel Bridges. Story of the game, though. As good as the Knicks were down the stretch. And Jalen Brunson was great again. Og Anunoby was great. Was the Boston Celtics missing a playoff record 45 three pointers. Oh, my gosh, they were 15 for 60 in the game. That's their game. They shoot three pointers. It's strategic and it cost them last night. But John, as I said to you, the fact that they missed 45 three pointers and arguably should have won the game shows a little bit of a talent gap here. But got to give the Knicks credit for the way they played down the stretch.

[Jonathan Lemire]

A ton of credit. It would have been Easy falling behind 20 on the road third quarter to pack it in and say we'll get them in game two. They didn't.

[Dave Weigel]

They were.

[Jonathan Lemire]

They showed a lot of fight. They were really physical. Refs let both teams play last night. Knicks beat up the Celtics, who were small because Porzingis left the game with an. With the illness. And I will say the Celtics played terribly and deserve to lose. They, they did their three pointer. That, that's been their calling card all year. Even their fans, when going well, think they're too reliant on it. And last night they took 60 threes, only making 15 of them.

[Willie Geist]

Very interesting. 40 of those shot by Garrett Whitlock, a reliever that's blown two saves this week, went out to play some basketball.

[Jonathan Lemire]

It's cross current Boston sports disaster this week.

[Willie Geist]

It really is terrible.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Not a tough, not a good week for the Lemire household. But yeah, the Celtics, look, they got beat. They deserve to get beat. They did not play well down the stretch and now suddenly, I mean, I said this is gonna be a fight. It's gonna be a long series tomorrow night. Game two in Boston becomes a must win for the Celtics.

[Willie Geist]

Oh, boy, that's something.

[Mike Barnicle]

And look at just Brunson. You have to say it again. He was the clutch player of the year. The NBA. He's just great when the game matters. Always with the ball in his hands.

[Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

Can I say something?

[Mika Brzezinski]

Sure.

[Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

The Celtics do indeed remind me of the Red Sox bullpen in a certain sense. But there's a larger issue and this must be just for me, not for you guys. You guys are legitimate NBA fans. There's something tedious about watching a sport where they come down the court and start taking threes from like half court all night long. What about passing? What about playmaking? Where is Bob Cousy when we need him?

[Willie Geist]

Exactly, Exactly. I will tell you, Joey is a massive NBA fan and he, you know, he's. He's Rain man when it comes to NBA facts. And he'll just spit them out. And he keeps trying to drag me in through the whole Golden State run. He goes, dad, you gotta watch this tv. And it's just, you know, people walk down the court and they shoot it from 40 and then they turn around and walk back. It is nothing. I'm an old man. It ain't Nothing like the 80s no where. I mean it just. Yeah, but anyway, that's, that's. But last night seemed great. Not to rain on anybody's parade. The old men brigade here they were.

[Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

The Knicks were great. The Knicks are going to win this series.

[Mike Barnicle]

Wow.

[Willie Geist]

They won. Oh, wow. Okay, we'll see. You were at the Met gala last night, right? Rev, you're so good. That is, I've got to say that's something I never quite understand, but I see a lot of funny looking dresses.

[Mike Barnicle]

That's how you do it.

[Willie Geist]

Come on, baby. That is not. Wow. Tell us about it.

[Danny Savalos]

Well, it's. It's fashion's biggest event and it's iconic event and every year everyone is hoping they get invited. And this is my second year. And Asia McShaw, who, you know, how.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Does one get invited?

[Danny Savalos]

Yeah, that's up to Anna Winsome and the Met and they are very selective. And you have everybody every a lister you could think of was there. I mean everyone was there last night from Diana Ross to Stevie Wonder performed Usher and everybody in fashion and Vice President Harris was there. And it was a statement though last night they made on the. What we talk about black male dandyism in terms of how the dress was in the early 20th century, which was a way of rebelling through your fashion. You didn't protest with a picket sign. You just by the way you expressed your yourself and said I'm going to dress up and be noticed despite the fact I'm living in segregation. So that was a statement. And I thought what was important about it is to make a statement of diversity while we're debating diversity in the national political circles, President Trump and others. So I give Anna a lot of credit for having the courage to not cancel it if it was planned in advance or to advance this. But it was a great night, and everyone got on their best.

[Willie Geist]

And you're looking very sharp.

[Mika Brzezinski]

I know, Mika, you'll never be invited.

[Willie Geist]

I know that. I'm thinking that the. The. The Celtics were 3 for 28 from threes. As far as my invites to the met, I'm over 62. It's a little worse. A little, little worse.

[Mike Barnicle]

By the way, all due respect, home watch in the Knicks was the place to be.

[Willie Geist]

Yeah, I know. Listen, for me, exactly.

[Mika Brzezinski]

That looked amazing. All right, let's get our top story this morning. This morning, we continue to see massive travel disruptions at one of the nation's busiest airports. And we're getting new information about what initially caused the delays and cancellations. We've learned at one point last week, air traffic controllers temporarily lost communication with planes flying in and out of Newark International Airport.

[Willie Geist]

Is that bad?

[Mika Brzezinski]

That's not good.

[Willie Geist]

No.

[Mika Brzezinski]

There was a malfunction with Federal Aviation Administration equipment, and air traffic controllers were unable to see, hear, or talk with any aircraft. It's not clear how long communication was lost, but because of that incident, several air traffic controllers went on leave. New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy sent a letter to Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy yesterday asking for technology upgrades at Newark Airport.

[Willie Geist]

You know, Willie, this is something. Steve Ratner has been complaining for years that we have antiquated systems. FAA has antiquated systems. Things were bad before COVID Things have gotten so much worse. Even after Covid. A lot of people getting out as air traffic controllers taking early retirement. You've got a retirement age at 56, which makes absolutely no sense. I would trust myself at my age now than I would have at 56 or 46 or 36. I mean, people into their 60s, early 60s, mid-60s should be able to be doing this. I mean, they've really got to take another look at this. It's not. It's not like 1955. They need to keep the best and the brightest in there for as long as they can.

[Mike Barnicle]

Well, I mean, you hear the details of that story. We are very lucky. There was no catastrophe. Air tragedy. When you lose communication with all the traffic coming in and out of a New York area airport, that's just staggering. And then you. The walkout, which is further made the problems. Even worse, they walked out the faa, the air traffic controllers, because of this, saying, hey, we're going to make a statement here. We need to change something, because this is not. The Wall Street Journal is actually writing about this this morning, America's air traffic fiasco. This comes from the editorial board writing, president Trump wants to reorder the global trading system. How about fixing America's air traffic Mess? Congress in 2003 directed the FAA to modernize its systems, yet the next gen overhaul is not set to be complete until 2030. As Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy notes, the FAA still uses floppy disks. Does Gen Z even know what those are? Few technicians, its aging systems, some of which are more than 60 years old. The best reform would be if the US followed Canada and other nations and turned air traffic over to a private nonprofit. Meanwhile, get ready for another summer of air traffic delays or worse. And I think we've all heard this. You're sitting at a gate somewhere and you go, weather looks good, weather's good. Where I'm going. What's going on? And I heard this just a couple of months ago at one airport where they said we actually have to fly to Denver first, get to a hub and wait until Newark clears because of all the chaos there.

[Willie Geist]

Yeah. And this has happened, Mike, summer after summer, since COVID a couple of years ago. Especially bad. I know people to judge, was constantly going to airports and coming on television trying to explain what was going on. Here we are 2025. The situation seems to be going from bad to worse. This looks like a terrible launch for a travel summer for millions and millions of Americans and a summer that appears to be the least safe in some time.

[Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

So, but we accept it as passengers. We accept that we go to the airport. There's going to be a delay in our flight. We're going to sit on the Runway yesterday because of the Newark situation. And it all starts in Philadelphia with the lack of FAA control or whatever. We sat on the Runway for an hour and a half to two hours. We take off. We're coming to New York. It's very rainy and cloudy out, obviously on the ground. We're coming in for a landing, plane's coming in and all of a sudden, zoom, we swoop upwards. The pilot comes on the air and says, you know, sorry about that. The Runway is a little overcrowded. We're going to take another round and take a run at it again. And that happens too often. And it's a miracle that something really, truly tragic and horrific has not happened, especially on the east coast of America. With all of these airports in such a small geographical area and FAA traffic control problems. Please.

[Willie Geist]

Yeah, I mean, they've got to do something. I mean, they're using floppy disks right now. They've got systems that are, that are so old, 60 years old. I mean, come on, why can't we can't wait till 2030. We got to get it now.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Okay. We'll be following this story. Let's move to politics now. Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez is passing on the chance to seek the top Democratic position on the Oversight Committee. The New York Democrat ran for the job last year, but lost to Congressman Gerry Connolly, who's now stepping back from the role for health reasons. She cited her party's preference to select more senior members of Congress for leadership roles as an obstacle to a potential run. Ocasio Cortez has been drawing large crowds alongside Senator Bernie Sanders at rallies around the country in opposition to President Trump's policies.

[Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

Rev.

[Willie Geist]

Nobody ever said that Congress was a meritocracy. I understand that AOC may be more progressive than a lot of people. I also understand that she's one of the most articulate, exciting people in the Democratic field. She goes out with Bernie Sanders and yeah, she just draws so many people very good, very effective in hearings, we've seen a lot of people. Nancy Pelosi was a progressive. When Nancy became leader, she realized she needed to represent the entire caucus. AOC certainly could do that as well. After the election, she was going around talking to people voted for her and Donald Trump saying, I wanted to stand. Why did you do that? What's that? What don't I understand? I just listen Democrats, I mean, and we're going to talk to Dave Weigel about this in a second, their approval rating is just absolutely disastrous. They don't need to keep getting people like in retirement, you know, past retirement age being their voice. They need somebody young like aoc. And again, it's not about ideology. You know, she can carry the message forward for a Democratic Party that really needs to reach out to younger Americans.

[Danny Savalos]

They need to reach out to younger Americans and they need to reach out in an authentic way. I think that what makes AOC effective is not only that she's younger, but that she comes off authentic without saying, I'm trying to kick the older crowd aside because it was very important. She did that tour with 83 year old Bernie Sanders, while some of the younger members of Congress saying the old guard needs to retire, she's showing a balance and a maturity As a young person and a message that penetrates.

[Willie Geist]

And by the way, what a great message to have. You've got all these Ivy League boys, you know, that are in the Trump administration that went all to, no offense to Ivy League boys here or anywhere, but all these guys, billionaire Ivy Leaguers, right, attacking her, going, oh, she's an elitist. She's like, why do you. It's like a bartender or a barista or whatever she was. She's like, what are you talking about? I had to work my ass off to like, like stay one step ahead of creditors and debtors. I know you.

[Danny Savalos]

And she talks as one who was right, had to work her way against some trust fund babies that are playing blue collar workers in the White House that has no idea what it is. Her authenticity makes her, I think, and I think that goes beyond ages because like I said, for her and Bernie to hook up shows the age gap really dies if you deal with people that are really speaking to the will of people.

[Jonathan Lemire]

We should note though, you know, certainly very supportive of her tour there with Senator Sanders. But her statement is that I shall read it. It's actually clear to me that the underlying dynamics in this caucus have not shifted with respect to seniority as much as I think would be necessary. There's a dig there that the Democrats are still a little bit, still stuck in the past. Now, does she need it? No, she's a huge, She's a huge star already. She's an immense political.

[Willie Geist]

The Democrats need her more than she needs the Democrats. Yes, it's that simple. And so she's got to be thinking, wait a second, wait, I'm going to put myself out there again just so a bunch of old members and seniority. Are you gonna like, knock me down?

[Jonathan Lemire]

Yeah, no, that's the thinking here is that she doesn't need it. She's a big, She's a big brand. She's very talented. There's already a lot of speculation as to what her political future would be if she wants to run for something statewide, New York or even bigger down the road. But in her decision here, she makes it clear, like, hey, this party still needs to change how they're doing things.

[Mike Barnicle]

Democrats don't know what to do with her because she is so exciting, she draws big crowds and yet they worry that Republicans use her successfully as a boogey woman. Yeah, she's the Green New Deal. She's a leftist in New York and all that.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Yeah, I don't think it's either or. I think she's Incredibly talented. But there's a lot of room to look at a lot of people over the coming months. And you know, yes, of course it's always good to appeal to young people, but they are not the most dependable voters. You need someone who appeals to all people, including Republicans.

[Willie Geist]

Well, I mean, and she and Bernie do. We talked about the fact that you have none other than Steve Bannon who talks about AOC all the time and says, yeah, she's right on a lot of populist issues.

[Mike Barnicle]

So Dave Waggle's writing about all of this. Dave, in your latest piece titled Trump's Falling in Polls, why Aren't Democrats Benefiting? You write this. Democratic leaders love talking about the President's flagging poll numbers. Their own numbers, not so much. The easiest answer to the Democrats problems is the one reporters enjoy the least. It's early. Most voters rejected Democrats last year and they're not looking at politics again until they really have to. But why are Democrats less popular now than they usually are after defeats? And why are Republicans holding on to most of their 2024 support? One reason suggested by the actual special election results so far is that some of the anti Democratic negativity is from people who will vote for the party anyway. Another reason is a long term shift against the party that's been visible in voter registration patterns for eight years. At this point in 2017, Democrats still outnumbered registered Republicans in Florida. Republicans now hold a 1.2 million voter advantage. Dave, we talked about that poll that was out last week that showed the president with only 37% approval rating. But when you look down, Democrats had a 30% approval rating. That's the ABC News Washington Post poll from last week. We've asked Democratic leaders on this show how they explain that number and there really actually hasn't been a great answer so far.

[Mark Carney]

There really hasn't. Everyone has tried. And Democrats keep describing these poll numbers and Trump support almost like a lever. He's going to go down, we're going to come up. And they haven't come up their own polling. I talked to Navigator Research, which does a lot of polling for Democrats, helping with their messaging. Their analysis is just that 74% of the country in their numbers doesn't like the political system, wants to change it completely. The rest of the electorate, which is smaller than even that Democratic chair you pointed out there, says you can make changes to it. And this AOC conversation you were just having leads into that. The party is still seen as protecting a sort of system, a sort of set of norms that are not that popular. And you find this talking to voters who are not, as I said in that piece, not that engaged with politics yet as unpopular as coverage of the tariffs has been, as unpopular as the tariffs has been with people who have, who are trying to build things in America. There's still this impression you hear from a lot of voters, or I guess a lot of people who might vote that Trump is trying something different. Maybe it'll work, maybe it'll bring factories back home. There is still a bias in the electorate towards trying something new against defending the norms and the people who set those norms up.

[Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

So, Dave, off of your reporting here and getting back to Donald Trump, who you just mentioned, how is it that the Democrats seemingly have no idea of how strong Trump is in people's lives compared to them? They feel that Democrats just simply do not know them. They don't know the Democrats, don't know people who go shopping, who have kids in elementary school, who pay pump prices at the gas station that are ridiculous to them, that have a tough time making a living, and yet they still think that Democrats don't know me. How does that happen to a party?

[Mark Carney]

Yeah, that's another part of this data that says that Democrats have lost their lead on which party identifies people like you, fights people like you, everything. You were saying, a number of reasons for that. One, historically the party is seen as redistribution, not oriented towards success. And that got worse after Covid. The party still has this hangover from the COVID spending that was popular at the time, that Trump took credit for the idea that it is giving money to people who are not working. It has a number of problems with the way the Trump economy is sold, the way that they're responding to it. Again, I don't want to repeat myself talking about the tariffs, but Democrats keep trying to change the conversation to Medicaid, to Medicare, to the things they're most safe on, defending entitlements the way they are. And Republicans are not giving them much breathing room too. Republicans are being smart here too, not just Trump in not really talking about how they want to change Medicaid and Medicare and talking only about giving more benefits to people, only about cutting taxes on tips. This is part of the story. Democrats are not taking every advantage, but Republicans too are offering lots of free stuff to people, including and tax cuts, not quite explaining how they're going to pay for it. Democrats are still trying to find some way through that that will come with an explanation for how they're going to fund their programs. And that's Just not very compelling right now. Is it less compelling if everything falls, falls apart and the numbers don't add up? Possibly Democrats might have an opening once Republicans have a budget, which they punt and they punt week after week. But the situation right now is that they're associated, Democrats are associated with free stuff for other people and the Republicans are associated with benefits, tax breaks, everything you want for you.

[Willie Geist]

Well, and again, I mean, the greatest irony of all is you've got all these Ivy League billionaires who actually, Americans believe understand how they live more than Democrats who have been successfully painted and I will say over the past 30, 40 years have painted themselves into the corner of being elitists. And so much of this just has to do with personality. We always talk about a focus group we saw in 2016 where a blue, a working class, blue collar woman, you know, asked why are you supporting Donald Trump? And she said, because he one of us. Because he's one of us. I remember, was it Tom Wicker that had a book on Nixon called One of Us? And Republicans have been very good whether they are one of them or not affect, you know, connecting there. You take an example that you gave in the book. Democrats don't have that right now, not on the national stage. Maybe Bernie, maybe aoc. But you look at the leadership, you look at Chuck Schumer and you brought up a conversation with Chuck Schumer when you're talking about his approval ratings versus Donald Trump's. Tell us about it.

[Mark Carney]

Yeah, Schumer was asked a pretty natural follow up question by Maharaju of cnn. You keep talking about Trump polls, but our poll says you're 17%. And Schumer's answer was polls come and go. But he is part of this conversation too. And you're talking about aoc. If she's not running for president. If she is running for something else, it would be Schumer. Steve. And a lot of AOC's popularity still comes from the fact that she was a young entrepreneurial candidate who challenged a party leader and won. And there's not even a really partisan valence to that. The story of the left versus the center of the Democratic Party has almost been lost in the story of how AOC came up the same thing for Bernie Sanders. Sanders is more popular than Chuck Schumer or most other people in the Democratic Party. And it's not because voters are going through all of his policies and making sure they align with them. It is this idea that they are changing. They are not for the people who run the government. All the time, the permanent government. A very powerful narrative that Trump is not really upsetting. There are people who are people who are making quite a lot of money by backing Trump. But the idea out there remains that there is a ossified government that doesn't work very well. Big donors own it, and anyone who wants to smash that is okay with me. And AOC passes some of that test for people rhetorically. Sanders does. Trump to an extent still does. And Chuck Schumer does not. And Chuck Schumer's appeals are towards stopping what Trump is doing and getting back to the government as we had it in January 19, 2025. That's not as compelling. And Democrats have found that is still not a compelling offer to people. The Democrats who've been on the trail, like J.B. pritzker, I should say they're not on a trail yet. Democrats who might run for president, who have been more successful so far, are implying that the government will change if they get elected, too. Democratic leadership is not. It is very backward looking. Not very far backward looking. Four months, but backward looking.

[Willie Geist]

Yeah. You know, and we talk about this all the time, Willie. Americans just aren't as ideological as people in Georgetown and Manhattan think they are. You have again, the same people that voted for Bernie Sanders in a primary in 2016 flipped over, voted for Donald Trump. We talk about it all the time. People who voted for Bobby Kennedy after he was assassinated, a lot of them jumped over and started voting for George Wallace. They want fighters. They want people who believe they're on their side. Right now, there are a lot of people who look at Bernie and AOC and they're not sitting there saying what people in Manhattan and Georgetown are saying or on Fox News or msnbc. Oh, they're leftists. They're this. No, it's like they'll fight for us. They're going to shake up the system.

[Mike Barnicle]

And it's usually not even about policy. It's stylistic. It's, are you fighting for us? Because that's been part of the frustration in these first couple of months of the second Trump administration. Democrats who can't believe Donald Trump is back in the Oval Office saying, what are we going to do about it? Who's going to stand up and push back on the public stage? And AOC and Bernie Sanders have been doing that.

[Mika Brzezinski]

So there's one model right there. There's also the efforts, the things that Hakeem Jeffries and Cory Booker are trying. And you know what? You can't criticize people for trying different ways to break through. And we need more of that. Not just Bernie and aoc, although that's a model. I think the campaign starts today, and they should be looking every day for ways to break through, make news and get their message across. And sometimes it won't work, and sometimes it will. That's the time we're in right now. They've got to get out there. And it can't just be two people.

[Willie Geist]

Yeah. You know, and Alex, I know we gotta go. Just one final point, Rev. And I know you know it, and I know I saw it when I campaigned. This isn't all about where do they stand on Medicare Part B. Where do they. I always knew within five seconds of walking into a room whether I had the crowd or not.

[Danny Savalos]

That's right.

[Willie Geist]

I always knew. And there have been times where Mika and I walked into a room and she said, joe, Doc. Right, right. This is going to be a rough night. You just survived. She just look around and surveil the crowd. But there are other times where I would walk in on a debate with an opponent, and I'd walk in and five seconds later, I'd be like, oh, man, I can tell Red Sox stories or Alabama stories. I got this. And I know you know that, too. And that's the thing about politicians. They walk into a room, some people got it, some people don't. And when you walk into that room, they aren't going, oh, he's wrong on this ideological issue. It's like, look at him, right? He's going to fight for us.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

Or look at her.

[Willie Geist]

She's pissed off. She's going to fight for us.

[Danny Savalos]

Right. I remember, you know, I told people that I had a lot of good mentors in civil rights, but the best advice I ever had came from James Brown, the Godfather. Soul was like a dad to me. He said, reverend, people can feel you before they hear you and they know who you are and whether you connect with them. Don't ever lose your feeling. Because we were riding around in Georgia one night and he was playing all this jazz. And I said, Mr. Brown, you play jazz? He says, Reverend, I love jazz, but people like me to do. Get on the good foot. Do what people understand and feel from you. And that's what I think a lot of Democrats have been. They're too smart to get a feeling.

[Mika Brzezinski]

That's a lot of smart feeling people.

[Danny Savalos]

You can't be that smart.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Politics reporter for Semaphore, Dave Weigel. Thank you so much.

[Willie Geist]

Thank you, Dave.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Still ahead, I'm warning Joe the Trump administration is trying to persuade unauthorized immigrants to self deport. We're going to dig into the new plan that offers a financial incentive. Plus, amid those deportation efforts, our next guest is asking the question, how much due process is actually due? This is an important conversation. MSNBC legal analyst Danny Savalas joins us with more on that. We're back in 90 seconds.

[Joe Scarborough]

It's conversation, it's perspective. It's the weekend on MSNBC with three new dynamic hosts, Jonathan Capehart, Eugene Daniels and Jackie Alemani. And in the evening, it's the weekend prime time with Eamon Mohadin, Katherine Rampel, Elise Jordan and Antonia Hilton join them as they offer analysis on the week's most important events and set the agenda for the week ahead. The weekend at 7:00am Eastern and the weekend prime time at 6:00pm Eastern. Saturdays and Sundays on MSNBC. MSNBC Films presents a six part documentary series, David Frost Versus on the next episode, Jane Fonda the war is being.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Escalated in the most tragic way.

[Joe Scarborough]

Sunday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC.

[Mike Barnicle]

Citizens, since we each upgraded to Xfinity in our homes, the WI fi has been booming. It's fair to say our town has officially become a boom town.

[Mark Carney]

Mayor, will I be able to drop.

[Willie Geist]

Into multiplayer gaming battles with low lag?

[Mike Barnicle]

The lag won't be an issue, but your questionable skills may be.

[Mika Brzezinski]

And what if I have hundreds of.

[Willie Geist]

Devices on the WI Fi?

[Mika Brzezinski]

Purely hypothetical.

[Mike Barnicle]

Seems like a lot, but sure, hundreds of devices all booming together with the Xfinity Gateway. Yes, friends and neighbors, with Xfinity, the WI fi is booming.

[Willie Geist]

Restrictions apply.

[Mika Brzezinski]

All right, 31 past the hour. Time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. Russia says Ukraine has launched an overnight drone attack targeting Moscow for the second night in a row. Several airports imposed flight restrictions as air defenses were deployed around the capital. Falling debris damaged several buildings. The attacks come just days before, before Russia's annual Victory Day parade, which President Putin is expected to attend. Jury selection is now underway in the Sean Diddy Combs sex trafficking trial. The trial began yesterday morning with Combs appearing in court. The music mogul has pleaded not guilty to all five criminal counts. He faces 15 years into life in prison if convicted. Opening statements are scheduled to begin next Monday. And the once popular video calling service known as Skype has shut down yesterday after more than 20 years. Founded in 2003, Skype was the first to allow free voice and video calls over the Internet for a mass audience. Parent company Microsoft announced the closure plan in February and encouraged users to migrate over to its teams app Instead, Microsoft acquired Skype in 2011 for $8.5 billion.

[Mike Barnicle]

I have trouble with teams.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Skype.

[Willie Geist]

I'm not a space age whiz kid. So easy. Teams can't get it.

[Mike Barnicle]

You can't do team.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Are you not a team player?

[Willie Geist]

Well, I'm team player. I just can't do it. I can't get everybody. Anybody have any problem with that?

[Mika Brzezinski]

Any problem with Teamsters?

[Willie Geist]

You guys get on teams. I mean, so this is me. Okay.

[Mike Barnicle]

Isn't it the same kind of as zoom? Just click the button and then I will tell you.

[Mika Brzezinski]

The first couple of times I had a hard time.

[Willie Geist]

It was a hard time. Okay, so while we're talking about it being technically deficient.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Yeah.

[Willie Geist]

I want to ask another question.

[Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

What happened to payphones?

[Willie Geist]

One, what happened to payphones? And two, when did Siri get so bad?

[Mika Brzezinski]

Oh, yes, Siri got bad.

[Willie Geist]

Siri has gotten Siri's worst.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Siri is the worst.

[Willie Geist]

And I will say something else that's happened to the latest generation of the Apple phones also. So you go in. Because I do a lot of my work on my phone. I, you know, the typing is terrible, but the typing will be terrible. You go terrible and I'll go in and I'll want to put one letter in a word.

[Mika Brzezinski]

You can't.

[Willie Geist]

And it highlights the entire thing.

[Dave Weigel]

And you're stuck there like that.

[Willie Geist]

I'm telling you, Apple technology on typing messages on Siri, I mean, in this age of AI where everything is going forward, Apple is, it's seriously, it's gone back 10 years. It's horrific.

[Mika Brzezinski]

And then it records like an entire conversation onto a text when you don't want it to do that.

[Willie Geist]

And it gets that right. But anyway, is this just me?

[Mike Barnicle]

No, I've never, you know, you got the big thumbs. I've never liked typing on an iPhone. Oh, so frustrating. You got to get the pad that connects to it. Then you have to carry that around with you.

[Willie Geist]

Yeah.

[Mike Barnicle]

Bring back the BlackBerry. Something tactile.

[Willie Geist]

Let me tell you something.

[Dave Weigel]

What I would do, what I would.

[Willie Geist]

Do Le Maire, to have a BlackBerry. You know, we always assume that when we move forward that the next level of technology is better than the last level of technology. I will tell you, for working, nothing's as good as the BlackBerry.

[Mika Brzezinski]

That's right.

[Willie Geist]

You're right. It's tactile. But also you're. Also, you can type faster. You could get things done. It didn't screw up this way. I'm telling you that. I'm telling you. Apple, Apple, Apple's. Siri just keeps getting worse and I have no idea why. Because you would think again, as everything else moves forward, Apple would be moving forward with it. But the editing also just got awful.

[Jonathan Lemire]

I could type better on the BlackBerry I had in 2008, right? The iPhone I have now, no question there. I mean, the iPhones are, they're incredible devices and they're computers. The video, all the, all that stuff works great, the bells and whistles.

[Dave Weigel]

But some of the day to day.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Functionality is not as good. And I agree with you, the typing in particular, like also the word you. Maybe you misspell something. Not only can you not put the letter back in, but it suddenly prompts you with words that aren't even real words.

[Willie Geist]

I was talking to Barnica last night about this and he said, where's the Gutenberg Press? When I had that.

[Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

Where's Al Gore? In his BlackBerry?

[Willie Geist]

Yes, exactly.

[Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

I bet he's still using 1:1. That aspect of it is furiating. You want to put exhaust. You're talking about a car exhaustion. All of a sudden it gives you the words.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Exactly.

[Willie Geist]

Well, and then again, that's step one. Step two, you go back and I'm dead serious, you go back and you try the correct exhaustion back to exhaust. And again you press the H and it will highlight like 12 paragraphs.

[Mika Brzezinski]

And the worst thing is that they are ripping off everyday Americans on chargers like there is no tomorrow. I mean, they're so expensive. Then you have to change the charger. If you upgrade your nose, you know you're doing it like stop ripping people off. They could be less than half the price.

[Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

Could we just have a public service message to the audience? And it's this. We realize that what we're talking about has nothing to do with the strife of your daily life.

[Willie Geist]

I don't know. I guarantee there are a lot of people that are.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Again, if the chargers.

[Willie Geist]

If you're gonna say you have the technology, make sure the technology works and.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Charge a little less. Coming up, a high stakes meeting at the White House today could set the tone for the future relationship between Canada and the United States. We'll talk about what to expect when Prime Minister Mark Carney meets with President Trump today. Morning Joe is back in a moment.

[Joe Scarborough]

As President Trump continues implementing his ambitious agenda. Follow along with MSNBC's newest newsletter, Project 47. You'll get weekly updates sent straight to your inbox with expert analysis on the administration's latest actions and how they're affected. The American people.

[Mark Carney]

The American people are basically telling the.

[Willie Geist]

President that they are not okay with any of this.

[Joe Scarborough]

Sign up for the Project 47 [e-mail] Project 47.

[Reverend Al Sharpton]

And what we've done for, you know, the numbers, but we've. Because we're taking them out by the thousands. We're being obstructed. It's very unfair what's happening because the court system is being. It's very unfair. So we're getting them out. It's a very difficult thing with the courts because the courts have all of a sudden, sudden, out of nowhere, they said, maybe you have to have trials. Trials. We're going to have 5 million trials. Doesn't work. Doesn't work. You wouldn't have a country left, but hopefully the Supreme Court will save it. But what they've done is a very, very serious thing.

[Mika Brzezinski]

President Trump at the White House yesterday complaining the courts are preventing his administration's deportation efforts. Meanwhile, the Department of Homeland Security says it will pay immigrants $1,000 and facilitate travel assistance back to their home country if they use the CBP home app to voluntarily leave the United States. The agency says the money will be paid after their return has been confirmed through the app. But DHS did not respond to questions about how the funds would be provided or what proof would be required to show that the person had returned to their home country.

[Willie Geist]

Sounds like this sounds like a James Brown problem. I will play like, as you said, but pay me first. So, yeah, they're going to get down to Honduras and then the money's not going to come.

[Danny Savalos]

Pay me in advance in cash.

[Willie Geist]

Yeah. Now, I think, though, I mean, Jonathan will talk about it for a very long time and we're going to get more into this story. Yeah, but we've talked about this since the election, all of us have. They talk about deporting millions and millions of people. They're not going to be able to do that. First of all, one of the reasons President Obama was able to do it is because there were a lot of illegal immigrants down by the border and so he could move them across. With Joe Biden, you had 5 million illegal immigrants come in very quickly. They were also able, when they finally awakened to the fact do that. I mean, the border is kind of quiet right now. They're not going to get, you know, millions of illegal immigrants deported. They're just not. So they've gone from during the campaign promising a bloody mass deportation and they'll say, we'll give you 1,000 bucks.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Yeah. I mean, the border has.

[Willie Geist]

Which, by the way, economically makes the most sense.

[Mike Barnicle]

Sure.

[Jonathan Lemire]

I mean, the border's been quiet even during the final months of the Biden administration after they did start cracking down, because for a long time, by their own admission, they were slow to act there. And it has even gotten quieter since Donald Trump took office, in part because of the. They did sort of install a culture of fear. Immigrants didn't want to try to try to risk it there. They're not going to hit their numbers, not only because they just simply aren't. The immigrants they can deport in a logistical fashion, but it's too expensive. We talked about this during the transition, what they thought they were going to do, the plans they were unveiling. It just wasn't going to happen. We also remember the thoughts of, like, migrant camps being built across, you know, near major cities across the country. None of that has, has occurred. We had a few high profile ICE raids in that first week or two. That was about it. There was an attempt of shock and awe. That was the first play. And as we've been talking at great length yesterday, the El Salvador prison is the next play in terms of trying to create this idea. And not to belittle the plights of the people who are actually there, but to create this idea. There's this widespread deportation effort. They simply haven't been able to do it. Now they're turning to this cash payment.

[Willie Geist]

Yeah.

[Mika Brzezinski]

All right, let's bring in MSNBC and NBC News legal analyst Danny Savalos. And Danny, as the debate on due process continues to grow, you explored how much due process is actually due in your new piece and substack. Tell us about it.

[Dave Weigel]

Here's the thing. The Supreme Court not too long ago said that these detainees are entitled to due process. And ever since then, I feel like everyone's been waving due process around like it's some magic talisman.

[Mika Brzezinski]

It's a big hearing and it's going.

[Dave Weigel]

To guarantee someone a full blown trial, a court appointed defense team. And that simply may not be the case. It requires notice and an opportunity to challenge. But even that doesn't give us a lot more information about what exactly due process means in this context. Notice, by the way, the government is saying, hey, well, we define notice as 24 hours is more than enough notice. And they point to another section of the immigration law that says that in cases of expedited removal, people can be removed without a hearing within 24 hours or maybe even seven days.

[Willie Geist]

And now this is for people that have been here for two years or less.

[Dave Weigel]

Right, two years, years or less. And they either didn't have sufficient documentation or they had fraudulent documentation. But you're right, it applies to a.

[Willie Geist]

Different class if they're here illegally two years or less. And I, and we, we want to, we all talked yesterday. Rev was talking about how he, the ACLU's other civil rights leaders were going in during the Obama administration complaining that they were removing people who had been here two years or less in an expeditious manner and didn't get this massive judicial review and hearings that, you know, Barack Obama, again accused of being the deporter in chief. Explain to us how when he was doing it and in 2012, the ACLU says he deported over 300,000 migrants without any real judicial review. How is that not a violation of the Fifth Amendment, but suddenly it's a violation of the Fifth Amendment if the Trump administration does it?

[Dave Weigel]

Well, the short answer back then, we're talking about immigration law. The Alien Enemy act is actually not part of immigration law.

[Willie Geist]

So we have three things, and as we said, excuse me for interrupting, but we have the Alien and Alien Alien Enemy act, which the South Texas judges said is illegal. We have what's happened in Venezuela, but then we have general deportation. What I'm talking about right here.

[Dave Weigel]

Yep. So federal law allows for even broader and speedy removal than has been used in the past. And expedited removal, as you talked about, allows for summary removal. That means no entitlement even to a hearing, possibly within 24 hours. It hasn't been used as broadly as, say, the Trump administration might want to use it. But under the statute, it is permissible to remove aliens who arrive at the border and even those who have been here for two years, although that two year provision you talked about is the lesser used in practice. But just because it isn't used very often doesn't mean it's a part. It's not a part of federal law that can be used, and it will be used because it's permitted under federal law. The Congress, in its infinite wisdom, decided that aliens who arrive at the border, and they define people who arrive at the border as people who have even been here two years if they have fraudulent documents, if they don't have sufficient documents, they can be removed in an expedited fashion, unless, unless they seek asylum. So you don't run into those due process concerns, at least, presumably, because that statute as it exists today, is still valid. Now, that's not what's at stake with the Venezuelans and the Alien Enemies Act. But the government's argument is that, hey, court, listen, you're telling US, we need to provide notice. Well, take a look at this federal law. It says that we don't even need to have a hearing. It can happen within 24 hours. So if that's a good, if that's good enough for people who arrive here who are aliens, it's certainly okay for people that the president has deemed to be alien enemies.

[Willie Geist]

And of course, that's been the problem. A lot of the problems with the court is they didn't just go the way Barack Obama did. They did Alien Enemies Act. They went back a couple of hundred years for an act that doesn't even apply now because we're not at war with Venezuela, first of all. And then secondly, again, it's one thing to deport somebody back to their home in Honduras. It's quite another to send them to the most, the most heinous prison in El Salvador.

[Mike Barnicle]

And the president has said again and again and in the last couple of days, well, what are we going to do, have 20 million trials, Danny, for these illegal immigrants? The point you're making is there won't be trials in the sense that we view criminal defense trials. You're going to get the O.J. trial 20 million times over if he tries to deport people. So let's take Abrego Garcia, for example. If Garcia comes back to the United States and stands trial or has a hearing, what does that look like as an example of what others might face?

[Dave Weigel]

Yeah, Garcia is a little different. He wasn't removed under the Alien Enemy act because he's not a Venezuelan. And so that whole argument about Venezuela being the enemy or trend, Aragua being the enemy doesn't apply. But you're absolutely right. If he comes back, what due process is he even entitled to? Well, probably the government will go back to the immigration court and challenge or reopen his case because. Because remember, the only thing that kept him here was a withholding of removal order from, I believe, 2019. So they can go back to that court, try to reopen that case and say, hey, since then he's done some bad things. Now, factually, you can argue, hey, no, he didn't do any of these bad things.

[Willie Geist]

But Danny. But even that's just limited to don't send him back to El Salvador, they could deport him to Honduras.

[Dave Weigel]

Exactly. You make a really good point, which is again, everyone's saying, hey, bring him back, give him due process. But that due process may mean he can go to any of the other, what, 200 or so countries other than El Salvador, and that's why I'm cautioning, folks, this whole idea of due process, everyone's saying it, well, this is what they're entitled to. The Supreme Court said. But as a criminal defense attorney, I can tell you the due process sometimes feels a little hollow. Going to your point about habeas, I file habeas petitions all the time. It's a slightly different statute because I'm usually dealing with criminal defendants. These are detainees. But the vast majority of habeas petitions are denied without even an evidentiary hearing. In fact, rare is the case where you get an evidentiary hearing for criminal defense attorneys. Any of you watching now, you're thinking, oh, my gosh, I got a hearing on my habeas petition. Because most of the time they get tossed. And it makes sense because anyone who does, anyone who knows prisoners or the way they litigate, they file a lot of habeas petitions. And your point is spot on. If there was a hearing for every habeas petition, the courts would shut down.

[Mika Brzezinski]

All right, msnbc, wait.

[Willie Geist]

We have to ask you one final question.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Okay.

[Willie Geist]

IPhone or BlackBerry?

[Dave Weigel]

IPhone or BlackBerry? Easy, BlackBerry. Bring it back. Look, I want the Atari back. I want ColecoVision back. I want VHS.

[Danny Savalos]

I want Pong. I want it all.

[Dave Weigel]

I want it all. I'm a Ms. Pac man professional. That's what I want back, man. Yeah, Ms. Pac Man, Pac man, that's. You know, these games now, the first person shooter. I don't want any of that. I want to. I want to gobble up ghosts.

[Willie Geist]

That's what I like. On the BlackBerry, though. You can fly with that thing. You said 200 words a minute.

[Dave Weigel]

Pardon?

[Willie Geist]

200 words a minute.

[Dave Weigel]

200. 300 words a minute. Absolutely.

[Mark Carney]

Yeah.

[Dave Weigel]

I mean, piano key should be that small, so we could. I would be virtuoso.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Same here.

[Willie Geist]

Activision. You remember Activision, of course.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Still stuck on Atari. All right, MSNBC and NBC News legal analyst Danny Savalos. Thank you so much.

[Dave Weigel]

BlackBerry expert, too.