Morning Joe 5/8/25

Summary

Morning Joe Episode Summary - May 8, 2025

Released: May 8, 2025

Hosts: Joe Scarborough, Mika Brzezinski, Willie Geist
Guests: Steve Rattner, John Heilemann, Bishop Robert Barron

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1. Opening and Planned Parenthood Segment (00:00 - 01:34)

The episode begins with a brief discussion highlighting the importance of healthcare access, specifically focusing on Planned Parenthood's role in providing essential services such as birth control, cancer screenings, and abortions without judgment.

• Joe Scarborough (00:10): "People still need healthcare. That should be obvious, right?"

• Mika Brzezinski (00:28): "Healthcare shouldn't be up for debate."

The hosts encourage donations to Planned Parenthood, emphasizing the non-partisan nature of healthcare access.

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2. Sports Segment: Knicks vs. Celtics Series (03:02 - 10:26)

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to analyzing the ongoing playoff series between the New York Knicks and the Boston Celtics. The discussion delves into the Celtics' unexpected offensive collapses and the Knicks' resilient defensive plays.

• Mika Brzezinski (06:22): "If they would just be mediocre, they would win by 10. That's not a knock on the Knicks. That's telling you how good the Celtics are as a team."

• John Heilemann (05:33): "It's a historic collapse for a team that won 60 plus games with one of the most efficient offenses in the league in several years."

• Willie Geist (09:17): "We have not won a title since 1973. It's been 52 years... maybe on your home court from getting to the Eastern Conference finals."

The hosts compare the Celtics' struggles to historical sports upsets and discuss the potential impact of upcoming games at Madison Square Garden.

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3. Vatican's Papal Election Update (11:14 - 19:12)

The panel discusses the ongoing conclave to elect a new Pope, with black smoke signaling no decision yet. Insights are provided by Bishop Robert Barron.

• Mika Brzezinski (12:24): "The direction of the church going forward. Do they continue with Pope Francis opening up the church, his liberalization, or do they return to a more conservative papacy?"

• Steve Rattner (14:03): "This is the most international conclave for sure... moving away from a very Eurocentric or Western oriented conclave to a much more global one."

• John Heilemann (15:55): "They represent sort of a breath of fresh air into a somewhat musty system."

The discussion highlights the global influence on the Church's future direction and the diversity among the cardinals.

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4. Economic Updates

a. Federal Reserve and Interest Rates (19:17 - 54:37)

Steve Rattner provides an analysis of the Federal Reserve's decision to hold interest rates steady, amidst pressures from President Trump and ongoing economic challenges.

• Fed Chair Jerome Powell (52:16): "If the large increases in tariffs that have been announced are sustained, they're likely to generate a rise in inflation, a slowdown in economic growth and an increase in unemployment."

• Joe Scarborough (53:16): "Jerome Powell is in a tough spot because he's promised 2% inflation... that's going to put the Fed in a really difficult position."

The panel discusses the possibility of stagflation—a combination of stagnant economic growth and inflation—and the Fed's strategic dilemma in managing these pressures.

b. Trump's Trade Deal with the United Kingdom (21:32 - 27:06)

President Trump announces a major trade deal with the UK, aiming to cement the relationship between the two nations. The hosts evaluate the implications of this agreement.

• Mika Brzezinski (22:10): "This is good news... a trade negotiation that began his first term in office."

• Joe Scarborough (23:19): "The United Kingdom is one of the few major countries with which we have a trade surplus where we actually sell them more than we buy from them."

• Steve Rattner (26:32): "If you can't get a trade deal with the longest standing and loyalist United States ally... you're going to be in trouble with other countries."

The discussion underscores the strategic importance of the UK as a trade partner and the challenges ahead in negotiating deals with larger economies like China, Canada, and Mexico.

c. Newark Airport FAA Issues (30:10 - 37:27)

The hosts address the severe delays and cancellations at Newark International Airport caused by FAA's air traffic control issues.

• Steve Rattner (30:10): "Nearly 11,000 passengers suffered through 64,000 hours of delays due largely to air traffic control staffing issues, runway construction, and equipment failures."

• Joe Scarborough (32:04): "We don't have a new system for air traffic control... it's an old-fashioned system that hasn't been modernized in decades."

• Mika Brzezinski (36:15): "It's absolutely ridiculous that controllers have to retire at 56."

The conversation highlights the systemic failures within the FAA, the bureaucratic hurdles in modernizing air traffic systems, and the environmental and economic impacts of these inefficiencies.

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5. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and Air Traffic Control (32:34 - 37:27)

Further analysis is provided on the antiquated air traffic system, emphasizing the need for modernization to prevent future delays and enhance safety.

• Willie Geist (36:15): "It's ridiculously low [retirement age]."

• Joe Scarborough (36:03): "We have controllers literally passing strips of paper... it's like the 1950s."

The panel debates the challenges in updating the FAA's technology and policies, questioning the sustainability and safety of the current system.

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6. Trump's Economic Claims and Tax Cuts (37:25 - 55:26)

The hosts critically examine President Trump's claims regarding economic improvements, oil prices, trade deficits, and proposed tax cuts.

• Joe Scarborough (42:40): "Inflation is running at roughly 3% and going up... tariffs... will not only add to inflation, they will slow down growth, they will lead to fewer jobs."

• Steve Rattner (44:34): "The notion that 'drill, baby, drill' has created a whole upsurge in drilling activity is absolutely counter to the facts."

• Joe Scarborough (47:17): "Inflationary expectations have gone up enormously... This is a dangerous thing."

• Mika Brzezinski (50:57): "Any tax cuts, any new tax cuts, the extension of tax cuts... are absolutely devastating for our fiscal health."

• Joe Scarborough (51:59): "Republicans are determined to pass a humongous tax bill... any kind of spending reductions are going to be minimal."

The segment debunks Trump's assertions about the economy, highlighting inaccuracies in his statements about inflation, trade deficits, and the actual impact of tariffs on consumers and industries. The hosts express concern over the potential exacerbation of the national debt due to aggressive tax cuts without corresponding spending reductions.

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7. Conclusion and Final Thoughts (55:25 - End)

The episode wraps up with final remarks on the economic landscape, emphasizing the intricate balance the Federal Reserve must maintain amidst political pressures and global trade dynamics.

• Steve Rattner (52:16): "There's no real cost to our waiting at this point."

• John Heilemann (54:37): "President Trump really continues to pound the bejesus out of the Fed... urging again the Federal Reserve to cut rates."

The hosts acknowledge the complexity of the current economic situation, reiterating the need for informed policy decisions to navigate potential stagflation and maintain economic resilience.

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Notable Quotes:

• Joe Scarborough (00:10): "People still need healthcare. That should be obvious, right?"
  (00:10)

• Mika Brzezinski (00:28): "Healthcare shouldn't be up for debate."
  (00:28)

• Mika Brzezinski (06:22): "If they would just be mediocre, they would win by 10. That's not a knock on the Knicks. That's telling you how good the Celtics are as a team."
  (06:22)

• Mika Brzezinski (22:10): "This is good news... a trade negotiation that began his first term in office."
  (22:10)

• Joe Scarborough (32:04): "We don't have a new system for air traffic control... it's an old-fashioned system that hasn't been modernized in decades."
  (32:04)

• Mika Brzezinski (50:57): "Any tax cuts, any new tax cuts, the extension of tax cuts... are absolutely devastating for our fiscal health."
  (50:57)

---

This episode of Morning Joe offers a comprehensive analysis of current healthcare debates, sports upsets, significant global events like the Vatican's papal election, and pressing economic issues, including trade negotiations, FAA inefficiencies, and the Federal Reserve's challenging policy decisions amidst political pressures.

Transcript

[Joe Scarborough]

You know we love a good debate, right? Digging deep on the issues, it's kind of our thing.

[Willie Geist]

But here's something that shouldn't need in depth analysis.

[Mika Brzezinski]

No matter what's happening in our country.

[Joe Scarborough]

People still need health care. That should be obvious, right?

[Willie Geist]

That's why Planned Parenthood health centers are.

[Joe Scarborough]

Here to provide birth control, cancer screenings, abortion and more without judgment. But they can't do it alone.

[Mika Brzezinski]

If you believe everyone deserves access to.

[Joe Scarborough]

Care, donate [e-mail] defend because healthcare shouldn't.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Be up for debate.

[John Heilemann]

MSNBC Films presents a six part documentary series David Frost versus On the next episode, Jane Fonda.

[Steve Rattner]

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[Joe Scarborough]

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[Mika Brzezinski]

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[Steve Rattner]

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[Mika Brzezinski]

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[Steve Rattner]

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[John Heilemann]

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[Steve Rattner]

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[John Heilemann]

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[Steve Rattner]

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[Mika Brzezinski]

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[Steve Rattner]

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[Mika Brzezinski]

Now just $7,000. And now you can feed Tara Tilly with real American made baby formula. Uh oh.

[Steve Rattner]

Looks like you got a tainted badge.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Oh, a health inspector's got dosed.

[Steve Rattner]

Import Tara Tilly to your playroom today available Christmas 2029.

[Kristen Welker]

Okay. Good morning. Got your early Christmas gift ideas.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Very exciting, very exciting.

[Kristen Welker]

Welcome to Morning Joe. It's Thursday, May 8th. We have a lot of economic news to get to, including President Trump. A major trade deal today. It comes as the Federal Reserve is holding steady on interest rates, citing the uncertainty tied to the President's tariffs.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Also talking about some strong resilience from the economy. The New York Times again saying what we've been saying for about three years now when it came to moving interest rates up. This US Economy is just, it's been extraordinarily resilient. We'll see if that can continue. And right now, the Fed suggesting there's some strong signs. We'll have Steve Rattner here to tell you all about it.

[Kristen Welker]

Yes. And we'll also show you what the fed chair actually had to say about that and the overall state of the economy. Also ahead, we'll have an update on the major travel issues at Newark airport and the FAA's plans to address them. We'll also bring you the very latest from the Vatican. As a plume of black smoke just moments ago signified, no pope was elected this morning.

[Mika Brzezinski]

And that means something. I think, Willie, we're going to have to go to the third ballot and who knows what's going to emerge from there or what memes are going to be putting out. We're going to be, of course, we're going to be talking about this throughout the day. But let us begin. That smoke, similar to the smoke coming off of Jonathan Omir's head last night, there it is at an extraordinary, I.

[Kristen Welker]

Know where we're going here.

[Mika Brzezinski]

An extraordinary incident, NBA game. And you know when you watch pti, they always have the debate, is this more about this or more about that? And the debate here could be as it was in the first game. Is this more about the Knicks doing great things or about the Celtics just being terrible? In this case, it really is both. I mean, the Knicks just keep coming back. Brunson had a bad game, had an incredible ending. Man, that guy, what a star in the clutch, right?

[Willie Geist]

Yeah, he's clutch player of the year. Yeah.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Yeah. But the, but, but, but the Celtics, after a horrible first game performance, the Celtics, the worst offensive, the third worst offensive rating over the past two years. Just another terrible offensive game for them.

[Willie Geist]

Yeah, they shot 25% from three again. They were 10 for 40 after going 15 for 60. 60. I think it was the game before. Three point shot is their whole game. That's their offense is based around it. Won him a title last year. So you can't knock it, but if you're not making the threes, you're not winning the games. Now with that said, they were up by 20 points again last night, just as they were in game one and this was late in the third quarter. They were up by 20 points, but they could not deliver. In the fourth quarter, they went eight minutes without making a shot. And the Knicks, you have to say, are incredibly tough defensively and relentless. They could have walked away and said, all right, we stole one in Boston in game one, let's pack it up, get back to the garden. But they kept coming. They kept coming. Celtics kept missing the shots and the Knicks win the game. Brunson hitting two clutch free throws with 12 seconds left in the game. And then another great defensive play by Mikhail Bridges, just as he did to end game one, stopping Jayson Tatum. This is the back page of the New York Daily News. Too good to be true. It happened again. John Lemire. The Celtics blowing a 20 point lead. And now they go back to. They come to the Garden. Down two zero.

[John Heilemann]

Yeah, I'm going to go slightly different than what Joe said. I think game one was as much about the Knicks. Knicks didn't play that well last night either, at least not offensively. The defense was very tough. Last night in particular was about the Celtics. They just collapsed. Second game in a row. They choked. They were too reliant on the three. They didn't go to the basket. And when they did, they missed some easy shots. They just went ice cold there in the fourth quarter. Look, they're the defending champs. The banner will fly forever from last year, but this is a pretty terrible showing so far. And look, they're the best. They're the best road team in the NBA all year. So I guess they still have a fighting chance when they come back to New York, starting with two games there on Saturday. But they're going to have to play a lot better than this. Porzingis is out. Tatum and Brown have gone ice cold. And Joe, they just. This is a. It's a historic collapse for a team that won 60 plus.

[Mika Brzezinski]

It really is.

[John Heilemann]

For a team that's won 60 plus games with one of the most efficient offenses in the league in several years to just. To just be unable to deliver at home two days in a row. Pretty shocking and frankly, embarrassing.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Well, you know, Mike Barnacle, the question is not whether they can have, you know, two. Two great games at msg. The question is not whether they can, you know, finish strong with four games. I mean, this is a Celtics team. If they would just be mediocre, they would win by 10. That's not a knock on the Knicks. That's. This is telling you how good the Celtics are as a team. But they have just been historically bad the first two games of this series. And again, God bless the Knicks, they. The door has been opened and man, they have walked through it. But again, it's not like the Celtics have to reach deep. I mean, they. They just have to play their game and, and not be just historically bad. Well, you know, Joe, I have no explanation, nor have I read or heard any explanation to outline the historic offensive collapse of the Boston Celtics in these two games. The only question now for the Celtics is they're Going into the beast that is Madison Square Garden to play the New York Knicks. And that's going to be an incredible chore. That's, that's an uphill task. But can they replicate the 2004 Boston.

[Steve Rattner]

Red Sox who went to, who went.

[Willie Geist]

To New York, though they were.04, they.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Were the underdog, but who went to New York down? Everybody counted them out and came back to win. Now, the Celtics don't have to, you know, do what the Red Sox did, but they've got it. They've got to get their game together. There's no explanation for how pathetic they've been in that. Yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't even know that you can. Red Sox won last night, Joe. I know. Thank God. Thank God they didn't give up four runs in the last inning, which would have been right on par with what they've been. Yeah, they won. But seriously, can you ever relax with the Red Sox, Willie? And by the way, this isn't, this wouldn't be 2004 with the Celtics, because this Celtics team is like a 1950s New York Yankees team. Right. So it's not, it's not like the little engine that could. I mean, they, they should be winning. I just, you know, Willie, I'm not from New York, but I've obviously worked there for a very long time. New Yorkers love the Yankees. New Yorkers obviously love the Mets. They love, I mean, they love the Rangers. But just talk about, for people that, that haven't spent much time in New York, what it means to New Yorkers, what it means to the fans, to the city when the Knicks start winning at the right time. I can't even imagine how crazy Madison Square Garden is going to be next game.

[Willie Geist]

Yeah, you know, I went to one of the Detroit in the previous series playoff games, the first one, and that was just the first round of the playoffs. Knicks fans, remember now we have not won a title since 1973. It's been 52 years. We got close when Michael Jordan took a break in the 90s for a little while, lost to the Rockets with Patrick Ewing, had some really good teams through there. But it's not that often actually, when you look through history and especially the last 30 years, that the Knicks get down this far. So now with a vision of being up two zero, coming back to our place, the Garden on Saturday, three thirty in the afternoon going to be rocking. As Charles Barkley said last night, they got to move that game tonight, Saturday night game in New York City. But it's going to be crazy at the Garden and it's Boston and all the history of sports that our two cities have with each other, it's going to be wild in there. And with the idea that you could be now two wins away, maybe on your home court from getting to the Eastern Conference finals, a place we haven't been in some time and perhaps, I'm not saying the Knicks are going to win the title this year, but the thought does enter your mind. 1973. Could we put that to bed finally? We'll see.

[Mika Brzezinski]

I mean, that would be something. I will tell you what is Mika and we were just showing the the Eastern Conference m when she was getting off her phone with a bookie last night at 12:30. She turns to me, wakes me up. He said, who would have believed at this point that the cavs would be down 20 and the Celtics would be down 2? Oh, I think she's right.

[Kristen Welker]

It's what I said.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Nobody, nobody would have imagined that.

[Willie Geist]

I mean, you get in this day and age where Mika could just use DraftKings, use the app. I love that she's still as the bookie on the landline, you know, personalized touch.

[Mika Brzezinski]

It's rotary. I mean, that's the thing. It's rotary too. She's got a martini, she's smoking an unfiltered cigarette and she's making her call to Vegas.

[Kristen Welker]

The rotary phone.

[Willie Geist]

Little neighborhood kids running slips of paper back and forth to the, to the row house. It's amazing.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Kristen Welker]

Okay. Also with us this morning, former treasury official and Morning Joe economic analyst Steve Ratner, an NBC News national affairs analyst and a partner and chief political columnist at pac. John Hellman is here with us this morning. Good to have you both. A lot to talk about. Let's get back to the pope. Cardinals have not yet selected a new Pope. The second vote of the day just wrapped up just before the show started with black smoke rising from the top of the Sistine Chapel. The ballots are only burned after two rounds of voting unless a selection is made. Yesterday we also saw black smoke rise above the Sistine Chapel. If we see white. If we see white smoke, it signifies there is a new leader of the Catholic Church. A two thirds majority needs to be reached in order for that to happen. Two more votes will be held today. Out of the more 250 cardinals in Vatican City, only 133 are eligible to vote. Under those, the age of 80 can cast a ballot.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Hey, Mike. Barnacle. Obviously you're following this pretty closely, right? Now, what's going on? I know there are a lot of different, a lot of different segments of the Catholic Church that are pushing and pulling. What's the word that you've heard? Well, there were two votes this morning. They break for lunch and there'll be two votes later this afternoon and we'll look for the black or the white smoke. I think what's going on is largely ideological and the direction of the church going forward. Do they continue with Pope Francis opening up of the church, his liberalization in the views of many, or do they return to a more conservative papacy? We're going to find that out. We're going to find out the impact of the global south on the Catholic Church. I mean, the growth of the Catholic Church is much higher in the global south than it is in Europe or.

[Steve Rattner]

The United States of America.

[Mika Brzezinski]

And that I think is going to have an impact on the vote and on the next papacy.

[Willie Geist]

Let's go to the Vatican. That's where we find Bishop Robert Barron of the Diocese of Winona Rochester in Minnesota. Bishop, thanks for being with us today. So black smoke. We still wait for the white smoke. Reminding our viewers the last two popes were elected on the second day and we are now in day two. So we'll see what happens after this lunch break. What is your sense, though? Obviously you're not in the room. We don't know how these votes are going exactly, but what is your sense of how you believe the Church may go after Pope Francis in terms of its choice of a new pontiff?

[Steve Rattner]

Well, right, that's the big question in terms of the electoral process. Things are kind of going as you'd expect. We'd be very surprised if there was white smoke either last night or today. Now possibly the end of today. Pope Francis was elected on that fifth ballot. My guess is tomorrow, I think it might be a little more divided Conclave. We heard during the General Congregations, those discussions before of the Conclave that there were disagreements about the direction of the Church. Some wanted to go, you know, very much with the Francis momentum. Others felt this was problematic. One of the difficulties in talking about the Church is we tend to look at it through our Western lens. And so we have certain preoccupations usually around questions of sexual morality. But go to Africa, for instance, where the church is burgeoning, but also under great persecution, go to the church in Asia and you see the inter religious dialogue is of huge importance. So they're considering all these different dimensions of the Church's life. And there's something you know, happening inside the walls of that Sistine Chapel right now and we'll see. My sense is it might be a little more divided than it was last time. Also, I'd say to speak politically last time, the more liberal faction was better organized. This time I know the conservatives were better organized going into the conclave. That could lead to a little more of a deadlock, but we'll see.

[John Heilemann]

So, Bishop, talk to us, if you will, about the nature of the cardinals who were there in the Sistine Chapel in this, in this conclave, as you say, certainly different factions, but also so many of them. This is the first time they've been through this. Pope Francis appointed so many new cardinals who are now potentially wanting to carry forth his legacy. So talk to us about these new cardinals, but also, as you say, that so many of them are coming from parts of the world which have been underrepresented in previous conclaves.

[Steve Rattner]

That I think is the central dynamic of this conclave. So it is the most international for sure, but also people that had very little experience of Rome. Many of them, that's why they extended the congregations for a couple of days. And that was at the behest, they say, of some of these more developing world cardinals because they wanted to know each other better and they don't know the Roman scene as well. Now, depending on your perspective, that's good or bad, could they be manipulated by those who do know the system better? Do they represent sort of a breath of fresh air into a somewhat musty system? So depending on your take, but I think it will certainly influence the movement of this conclave. We're moving away from a very Eurocentric or Western oriented conclave to a much more global one. And I think with a lot of them, we don't really know what their views are. Francis seemed to prioritize getting people from diverse places on the, on the map. But do they all share his perspective on everything? Some do. I'm not sure about others. So we'll see how that shakes out.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Bishop, I'm so glad. And I want to underline this for those of us that are viewing so many people in the west, so many people in America, so many people that follow this in the news, they focus on one small set of issues. And you were talking about sexual morality, sexual issues, whether it's abortion, whether it's same sex marriage. But for most of the world, especially in this, we keep talking about the south, they talk about that. But you're right, the focus is on religious persecution. It's on those Matthew 25 issues where Jesus talks about feeding the poor, clothing the naked, bringing hope to the hopeless. Underline that fact for us and explain to Americans that are watching right now, this is, this isn't just about what somebody's position on abortion is going to be or on same sex marriage.

[Steve Rattner]

Right. And that's the beautiful part of the Francis papacy. I think they all want to carry forward. He wanted a church that turned with a merciful face toward the world, that was the friend of the marginalized, the friend of the poor and the forgotten. And I think that's the great legacy of Pope Francis. As far as I'm concerned. They all want that to continue. It's in regard to some other issues that I think they will find greater division. But, you know, conclaves often involve, you know, taking what they consider the best of the previous papacy and then maybe trying to correct difficulties in the previous papacy. And it's a playing out of those issues. There's also the question of the personalities involved. So one thing is the position the cardinal holds. The other one is the cardinal himself. What kind of person is he? Even his age, even his health, even your personal interactions with him, Often at the general congregations, the cardinal will say, that guy gave a speech, or I just sensed something in him that I thought was worthy of a pope. So all those factors are at play, as in any political reality, and this one, on a very small scale, you got 133 electors, and they're weighing all these different elements.

[Kristen Welker]

It's amazing. Bishop Robert Barron, thank you so much for helping walk us through this all. It's fascinating.

[Steve Rattner]

God bless you.

[Kristen Welker]

All right, up next, we're going to Steve Ratner's thank you. Analysis on the new developments in Trump's trade war. Plus the latest on the travel troubles at Newark International Airport as the Federal Aviation Administration pledges to address the air traffic control problems. They're also ahead with Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts is saying about the importance of judicial independence as the Trump administration criticizes courts that have blocked the president's policies. We're back in 90 seconds.

[John Heilemann]

Stay connected with the MSNBC app bringing you breaking news and analysis anytime, anywhere.

[Joe Scarborough]

All the stories that we're covering are.

[Kristen Welker]

Live and happening as we speak.

[John Heilemann]

Watch your favorite shows live.

[Steve Rattner]

What's happening right now is a hostile.

[Joe Scarborough]

Takeover of the US Government.

[John Heilemann]

Read live blogs and in depth essays and listen to coverage as it unfolds. Go beyond the what to understand the why. Download the app [e-mail] app hey, everyone, it's Chris Hayes.

[Mika Brzezinski]

This week on my podcast, why Is this Happening?

[Steve Rattner]

Harvard political scientist Erica Chenoweth.

[John Heilemann]

People often find out the world they're.

[Joe Scarborough]

In after the fact.

[John Heilemann]

And that's what makes this wave of global autocratization, as they call it, much more like the one that was in the 1920s and 30s than the one that was in like the 1960s and 70s. Because in the 60s and 70s, there were bright lines.

[Steve Rattner]

There was a coup outright by the.

[John Heilemann]

Military declaring themselves the caretaker government, or there was an armed revolution that won. We're in a different world where most of the aspiring autocrats today are elected authoritarians. That's this week on why Is this Happening?

[Mika Brzezinski]

For why Is this Happening? Where you're listening right now and follow citizens.

[Steve Rattner]

Since we each upgraded to Xfinity in our homes, the WI fi has been booming.

[Willie Geist]

It's fair to say our town has.

[Steve Rattner]

Officially become a boom town.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Mayor, will I be able to drop into multiplayer gaming battles with low lag?

[Steve Rattner]

The lag won't be an issue, but your questionable skills may be.

[Kristen Welker]

And what if I have hundreds of.

[John Heilemann]

Devices on the WI Fi?

[Joe Scarborough]

Purely hypothetical.

[Steve Rattner]

Seems like a lot, but sure, hundreds of devices all booming. Together with the Xfinity Gateway. Yes, friends and neighbors with Xfinity, the WI Fi is booming.

[John Heilemann]

Restrictions apply.

[Kristen Welker]

Welcome back to Morning Joe. It's 20 past the hour. Later this morning, President Trump is expected to announce the details of a trade deal with the United Kingdom. The President posted about it just moments ago, writing on Truth Social, quote, the agreement with the United Kingdom is a full and comprehensive one that will cement the relationship between the United States and the United Kingdom for many years to come. Because of our long time history and allegiance together, this is the first trade agreement since the president imposed higher tariffs on America's trading partners. So what do you think it means?

[Mika Brzezinski]

Well, I mean, what does it portend? I think it's good news. This is what the President, the White House has been saying is going to be coming for some time. There have obviously been real concerns, but. But here you have the president that's moving forward on a trade negotiation that began his first term in office. A similar thing could happen with Canada. There was a trade deal there. Maybe they can move forward and figure out a way to get a trade deal done that way. Of course, all eyes on the market are on China because obviously it's such a key player there. But there is no doubt. Steve Ratner, this is good news that and politics is very personal with Donald Trump. He has let everybody around him know he likes Keir Starmer. He is an Anglophile, obviously excited about the state visit to Great Britain. And so again, it's the White House will tell us this is the first of many trade deals moving forward. You know, maybe Japan, South Korea coming up next. Obviously, though, very complicated, these trade deals.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah, Joe, that's exactly right. It's good for Trump that he got a trade deal and he got a trade deal with a country that people recognize as a major country. And I don't want to completely rain on his parade, but I think there's a couple other points to be made. First, the United Kingdom is one of the few countries, few major countries anyway, with which we have a trade surplus where we actually sell them more than we buy from them. So it's not like China, where we obviously have a big trade deficit. Secondly, they are, I think, eighth largest trading partner, ranking behind Switzerland and a bunch of other places in our economic, international economic activities. So, look, we all know the president was desperate for a trade deal. The markets, every time it perceived there would be no trade deal went down. Every time they perceived there was one, it would go up. It's going to open up this morning. And so it's a step along the way. And I don't want to, I'm not trying to completely rain on the parade. It's an accomplishment. But as you pointed out, you've got Canada, you've got Mexico, you got China, are the, are the big three, and those are the ones that we have to crack if we really want to make progress on this.

[Mika Brzezinski]

And, you know, it's going to be interesting. Jonathan o' Mear, I mean, when you're just looking at relationships that the president has with foreign leaders, again, he said he likes, likes Keir Starmer. He, he, it didn't start that way. And I know there were, there was what judges would call dicta in that meeting with, with Carney, but he likes Prime Minister Carney personally, respects him. Maybe, maybe there's a deal in Canada to happen. The same thing with President Sheinbaum in Mexico. I think you look for what's more most likely, most likely those trade deals are going to come from leaders that he's more comfortable with. And he certainly, again, says he's very comfortable with Keir Starmer.

[John Heilemann]

Yeah, no question there. For President Trump, diplomacy is very personal. I mean, there's, there's the degree of that for most presidents, but this one in particular, it's really whether or not he likes you. We know there have been foreign leaders he very much did not like. He did not care for Prime Minister Trudeau of Canada, he did not care for Chancellor Merkel of Germany. He certainly doesn't much care for President Zelensky of Ukraine. But Keir Starmer is one. Despite people in Trump's orbit actively campaigning against him before those before the British elections, Starmer has put a lot of time and energy into this relationship. He has really understood this will be a key one for him at home as well. And though they certainly differ on some issues, Ukraine in particular, Starmer and Macron have actually been able to try to bridge that gap to try to bring Trump at least a little bit more towards Keeves perspective. But this is going to be a political win for the White House. Mika, we've already President Trump up very early this morning posting around 5:30 in the morning. We've heard from a couple times already today about this. They're going to have an event at 10 o' clock. He's going to hold a news conference along with it. This is going to be something that they recognize. White House aides have told me for a while it's been turbulent since so called Liberation Day. They've seen the markets bounce back some but there's a lot of economic worries. They needed to start delivering deals. This is the first.

[Kristen Welker]

Yeah. And we're going to get to more on the economy in just a moment. But on that issue of President Trump liking Keir Starmer or liking Carney, he does, but he also respects them. They are leaders. And perhaps I don't know if this is transferable to Republicans and others, but if you are a strong leader and you push back and you get along with Trump, that can work. That is showing the proof is in the pudding here multiple times now that he likes and respects leaders that kind of step up to him and meet him there.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Yeah. And it is interesting John Hyle and we talked about this in the a few days ago actually compare the first term of the second term and you actually have Donald Trump in the first term who had little use for Theresa May. It fight a good bit with Macron, other leaders across and of course Angela Merkel here again you have he and Macron have seemed to figure out how to get along. Same with Starmer. And of course good meeting, private meeting I'm told with Carney and Sheinbaum. They continue to have good relationship. So this is something that the White House wants, something that the markets need. And the question is, is this going to be the first of many tariff deals that will, let's just say possibly ease the markets?

[Steve Rattner]

Well, right. That's that's the question, Joe. And to go back to what Steve said a second ago, this is in addition to the personal relationship where Trump seems to respect and be able to work with Keir Starmer. This is relatively low hanging fruit. If you, if you can't get a trade deal with the longest standing and loyalist United States ally anywhere in the world over generations, you're going to be in trouble when you're dealing with some of the more obstreperous countries around the world, the ones that are more willing to resist your entreaties and those, to Steve's point, those big three are still out there. There was no sign of a trade deal coming out of that meeting with Mark Carney the other day. And you had Scott Besant testifying on Capitol Hill this week acknowledging something that pretty much everybody knew already, which is that although Trump has been saying repeatedly that there are ongoing negotiations with China, that those negotiations have not taken place, have not started up at all. Besson, of course, recognizing that you can't lie to Congress, it's illegal to do that. So when he was asked directly about it, he had to contradict the president and say, you know, we're just headed off. We're going to, we're going to, we haven't done any of those negotiations yet. We have to start having a first, we have to have a meeting with China just to try to cool the temperature down before we could even get to negotiations. And those are going to be the big issues. On the economic front, Wall street believes that Trump is going to cave on all of this and knock all these deals out at some point, maybe not 90 and 90 days. Trump's discussion about, you know, dolls and pencils and all the stuff that he's been talking about suggests that he might not be in any hurry to cave. We'll see. But there's a lot riding on it for sure.

[Willie Geist]

And definitely most people around these negotiations announced by the president this morning say this is the framework to begin a con that you won't get an actual agreement announced today. We'll see in just a few hours. When you get back to the Fed with Steve in just a moment. But also want to get to this story. The Federal Aviation Administration is now promising to help to alleviate some of the problems that have plagued Newark International Airport, where hundreds of flights have been delayed or canceled just this week. But the agency is warning a total fix could take years. NBC News senior correspondent Tom Costello from Newark Airport.

[Steve Rattner]

At Newark Airport, far fewer delays and cancellations as the FAA reduces traffic into and out of Newark airspace. With its big hub at Newark, United airlines says nearly 11,000 passengers suffered through 64,000 hours of delays due largely to air traffic control staffing issues, Runway construction and equipment failures, including the simultaneous loss of radars and radios. Last week, three of the four radar screens went black. A current controller tells NBC News they've lost radars and radios multiple times since August. Last November, controllers say a FedEx plane drifted into LaGuardia airspace after newer controllers lost comms. Citing stress, several controllers have now taken medical leave. The FAA announced it's taking action, deploying a temporary backup radar system at the TRACON in Philadelphia, leaning heavily on controller trainees who are certified in certain positions, and adding more telecom lines to improve unsteady transmission lines feeding radar data. But the upgrades could take till the end of the year.

[Mika Brzezinski]

That relay system through the New York.

[Joe Scarborough]

TRACON is what is contributing to or causing the allergies.

[Steve Rattner]

Have your passport, real ID and your boarding pass. Meanwhile, minimal delays at TSA checkpoints nationwide as they began requiring real IDs or passports to travel. Passengers who have neither may be sent for secondary screening. If I show up, I don't have a real ID and oh boy, I forgot my passport. Can I still get on my flight, that is?

[Joe Scarborough]

You can, absolutely.

[John Heilemann]

And we're going to work with you.

[Joe Scarborough]

To make sure that we go through certain procedures.

[Willie Geist]

Tom Costello reporting there. Steve, you're a longtime pilot. Couple questions for you on this. First of all, what does it mean to lose communication and radar with a commercial aircraft? What's going on in the cockpit when that happens?

[Joe Scarborough]

What's going on is that the ground control can't talk to the pilot and they don't necessarily know where the plane is if they've lost radar contact. Look, let's just. Can we back up for half a second here? Because there's a lot of history here. If you go back to the last century, the year 2000, there was a similar problem in the summer, huge delays, outages, all this stuff. And Congress said we've got to have a next generation air traffic control system. We are now here, 25 years later, we have pieces of one, but we don't have.

[Willie Geist]

Why, Steve, why in this country of innovation, why?

[Joe Scarborough]

Oh, you know, the technical part is easy to do. The bureaucracy, the contracting, the slowness of movement. In 2012, they issued a contract for a new communication system so that they could not have these communications outages. In 2018, they canceled the contract and they've never reawarded it. Let me Explain. Like, let's just talk about radio communications. When you want to talk to Joe or Mika or Alex, you might often just text them. You send them a quick text, they send you an answer that way. Not like the way it used to be where you picked up a phone and you called them and you had to find in a cockpit. The communications are almost always voice. If the pilot wants to do something, he's got to reach get the controller. And by the way, it's like an old fashioned party line. Everybody's trying to talk at the same time and that's the way it is. It's so antiquated. Look, it doesn't really compromise safety in my opinion. We did have a crash. We've only had two fatal crashes in this country in 15 years. I think the record is pretty strong. But it causes all this commotion, all these delays, all these outages because the equipment problem feeds into the personnel problem because they are way understaffed, because they did move what's called TRACON terminal radar control from Philadelphia from I slept Long island to Philadelphia to try to make more of the controllers they had and make it more productive. Controllers didn't like it. Some of them left. They can't hire them. I'll give you another small example. They have a retirement age of 56 to be an air traffic controller. You can be a pilot at 65 and you're up in the air. I'm not sure why. If you're on the ground, you have to retire at 56. And so it's really government amok. But one last point. We are wasting billions of dollars, hundreds of millions of gallons of jet fuel polluting the atmosphere, delaying people because the system is so antiquated that the routes the planes fly go back to the days of propeller planes when the controllers didn't really know exactly where people were. So they had to keep them far apart. They had to space them out. They had to do this. We can. Today we have much better equipment. Once we get it working properly, we can know where planes are exactly and how and make them and allow them safely to be closer to each other. And therefore we can dramatically or significantly increase the capacity of even airports like Newark. Fewer delays, less carbon emissions going into the airport, into the air, shorter trips because you save time on the. And it's a win, win, win. But the government can't get it done.

[Mika Brzezinski]

I mean, it's incredible. Ezra Klein is going to be on in a little bit. He wrote a book about how in the US we just can't build Things, fix things anymore. I certainly can't do it efficiently. You hear about these bullet trains that, like, you know, take forever to get done. And. And you still wonder like the one out in California is ever going to get done. In this case, though, Steve, I've been hearing you say for a long time that we have an antiquated system, and again, this should be top priority. Why can't we get it fixed? If they were saying in 2000, we're going to upgrade the system, that's something that should take one or two years, tops. That's the first question. The second question has to do with retirement. At 56 years old, I would much rather have me as an air traffic controller at 62 than at 56. I mean, tell me when the.

[Steve Rattner]

Why in the world.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Why is 56 a cutoff date? And is that a union decision so they. So they can keep younger people coming in? Why 56? That's. That's ridiculously low.

[Joe Scarborough]

It is ridiculously low, Joe. And I can't say exactly I know where that came from. I suspect the union is a part of it. But it may just be one of those things that's been around forever and nobody has changed. I don't know. Look, we have the advantage now that people are focused on this, and that may lead to at least some improvement. But again, to go back to the way this thing works, you literally have controllers. As the plane flies along, it goes from the supervision of one controller to another controller. We literally have situations still that go back to the 1950s where one controller gives the other controller a little strip of paper and it says, well, here's where the plane is and here's where it's going, as opposed to simply, again, some kind of an electronic form of communications. It's really quite incredible. And I'd like to say that out of, you know, never let a crisis go to waste. Out of all this will come a new system. But that's what happened in 2000, and 25 years later, we have pieces of a new system. But all that's going on out there is because we don't really have a new system.

[Mika Brzezinski]

It's just ridiculous.

[Kristen Welker]

It's Newark Steve Ratner. I'm going to ask you that question since it is the Steve Ratner hour.

[Mika Brzezinski]

It is a Steve Ratner variety of it.

[Kristen Welker]

It is. So Steve's going to have.

[Mika Brzezinski]

He's going to be singing, by the way, with tap dance. Yeah, a little tap dance.

[Kristen Welker]

I love Stevie. All right, so Steve will head to over the southwest wall. Some of the recent claims President Trump has made about oil prices and the trade deficit. Wake up the kids. He's got the charts. I'm going to ask him if it's safe to fly into Newark. That's straight ahead on Morning Joe.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Look at that shot of New York City at 6:35 on a beautiful May morning. Thanks, chopper.

[Kristen Welker]

For spring in New York.

[Mika Brzezinski]

As President.

[John Heilemann]

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[Mika Brzezinski]

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[John Heilemann]

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[Mika Brzezinski]

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[Joe Scarborough]

The American people are basically telling the president that they are not okay with any of this.

[John Heilemann]

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[Mika Brzezinski]

Project 47 Sir David Frost gave us.

[John Heilemann]

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[Joe Scarborough]

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[John Heilemann]

MSNBC Films presents a six part documentary series David Frost versus On the next episode, Jane Fonda.

[Steve Rattner]

The war is being escalated in the.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Most tragic, cruel way. Sunday at 9:00pm Eastern on MSNBC. Hey, welcome back. Good morning Joe. We've been obviously talking about the problems in Newark also with the faa. I wanted to go to you, John Heilman, because we've been talking offset about something that James Fallows wrote about about sort of all the friction there. And you can talk about that before you talk about that. If you want to just need a mirror a little bit. As a longtime Laker fan, you can do that too.

[Steve Rattner]

Go ahead.

[John Heilemann]

Let's skip that. They're already out.

[Steve Rattner]

Well, you know, I don't think Willie really did enough to speak to the schadenfreude that some of us on the show feel over what's happening in that Knicks Celtics series. I gotta say, you know, for Lakers fans everywhere, couldn't happen to a nicer guy to see John Lemaire's Celtics struggling the way they are against the Knicks. Also, let's give credit to the Knicks. The Celtics are playing really bad, but the Knicks are playing really well. Hey, John, John in the same, in the same place, the Celtics will be playing relatively shortly.

[John Heilemann]

We'll see.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Yeah.

[Steve Rattner]

Joe, to your place. Jim Fallows. Jim Fallows, who like, who likes Steve Ratner, who, who likes Steve Ratner is a long time, not just a long time private aircraft flyer pilot, but also a longtime chronicler of aviation policy and politics, pointed out in this piece, wrote a long piece, really good piece yesterday on substack about what's going on with airline safety and, and sort of said there are three important factors that are slowing things, that have slowed things down in terms of modernization of the air traffic system for the past 40 years since really, I guess almost 40 years since, since Reagan and the air traffic controllers back in the early 80s. One of those things is that technology keeps changing really fast and it's always a struggle to try to keep up with it. So any new system feels like for people who are advocating for changing the system, any new system, the worry is it will be overtaken by new technology really quickly. The second is that in the aviation world, the world I don't know that much about, Steve knows more about it than I do. There's a kind of a core belief that you should always go slow in terms of changing any system because the stakes are so high. And then the third thing that kind of factors in here is that every administration, whether you're Republican or Democrat, Republicans tend to be more draconian about this than Democrats. But all administrations always look at all of the safety bureaucracies that deal the safety administrations that deal with those issues in airline traffic, they look at those as places to get easy money in periods when they're trying to cut budgets. So even before Doge, which took a chainsaw to a lot of those regulatory agencies, even before that, there's kind of a long standing tendency to try to undermine those agencies and suck money out of their budgets.

[Willie Geist]

All right, John Howman, thank you very much. Remember now, win with class. Win with class. John, thanks very much. Let's go back to Steve Rattner. He's made his way from the set over to the Southwest Wall with a fact check of some of recent claims President Trump made in that interview on Sunday with Kristen Welker on Meet the Press. So let's start here with your first chart. President Trump insisted during the interview he already had gotten costs down in his first couple of months. Here's what he said.

[Joe Scarborough]

I was able to get down the cost. Oil is down, gasoline is down. Groceries are down, eggs. But you don't talk about the fact that gasoline is down at numbers that nobody believes possible. You know why they're down, by the way? Drill, baby, drill. We're drilling like crazy right now.

[Willie Geist]

What do the numbers show?

[Joe Scarborough]

Well, as usual, there's a lot to unpack here. Donald Trump has a loose relationship to the facts. So let's talk about prices. First of all, prices are still going up. If you look at headline, meaning all items together in the Consumer Price Index. You'll see that they rose by 6.10of a percent in the first three months of the Trump administration, compared to 0.9% under the Biden administration. A little bit slower, but still significant price increases. Groceries went up faster under Trump than under Biden by 1% in that quarter, which is close to a 4% annual rate. 8, 10 under Biden. I'm going to come back to gas in one second. But what's also happening, that is very worrisome. And notwithstanding Trump's exhortations, shall we say, the public isn't really buying it. Inflationary expectations on the part of consumers have gone up enormously. They were 2.8% back in December, and now they're 6.5%. And sometimes perception becomes reality. And so this is a dangerous thing as well. Now back to oil. Why? Why are gasoline prices down? They're down for two reasons. One, because OPEC is pumping more oil, which brings prices down. And secondly, because when the oil market perceives that the economy, the biggest economy, ours, is weakening, then prices start. They expect demand to fall and prices start to fall. And the next thing that happens is people drill less oil, because if they don't think they're going to get the same price for their oil, they're going to drill less oil. So this notion that drill, baby, drill has created a whole upsurge in drilling activity is absolutely counter to the facts.

[Willie Geist]

And then there's the point, of course, made during the campaign by the Biden campaign that no one in the history of human civilization had drilled more and taken more out of the ground in the last year than the Biden administration. So President Trump also made a claim during that interview on Meet the Press about how much money America lost every day on trade deficits under President Biden. Here's what he said.

[Joe Scarborough]

We lost five to six billion dollars.

[Mika Brzezinski]

A day with Biden.

[Joe Scarborough]

Five to six billion. And I've got that down to a great number right now in a very. In a record time. You know, we're talking about 100 days, but just think of what that is. $5 billion a day we're losing on trade. What about the car business? They're going to make a fortune because of the tariffs.

[Willie Geist]

Steve, the charts show the trade deficit is actually increasing right now.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah, I'm not going to do a whole thing on how trade deficits work, but I'm going one simple thing, because he keeps saying we lost $5 billion a day. If I go downstairs in 30 Rock here and I buy a Morning Joe t shirt for $20, I give them $20, I get a T shirt. Have I lost money? No, I've gotten something back for my money. And that's, in effect, what we're doing. We're buying stuff from overseas. There are issues there. But it's not like we're just handing the Chinese $5 billion a day. And that's the wrong number. Of course, in 2024, the trade deficit equaled $2.5 billion a day. So less than half of what Biden, of what Trump claimed Biden had done. Here's the Biden period. Here, look what's happened under Trump. The trade deficit has soared, soared, soared. And I'm not saying that it's because of Trump, but what's been happening is people are importing a lot more to get ahead of the tariffs. And the result is now the trade deficit is about $5 billion a day. But he got the president wrong. That was under President Trump, not under President President Biden. Now, as for the cars, he also said, as you just heard, that this is going to be the greatest thing ever for the car companies. They're going to make a fortune and so on and so forth. It's not how the car companies feel and it's not how the market feels. So let's look at how the market feels. These are the stocks of the Detroit three companies that used to be Chrysler for GM and now Stellantis. And you can see that after the election, the stock prices kind of hung in there up and down a little bit, but pretty stable since the election and since Liberation Day, which was right here, you can see what happened to the prices of all these shares. And why did that happen to their shares? Because the company started putting out announcements. Ford said that tariffs would reduce their earnings this year by a billion and a half dollars. General Motors said it's going to cost them 2 to 3 billion dollars. And so it's a little bit hard to see how the car companies, why the car companies think this is a great thing, as Donald Trump claims.

[Willie Geist]

And Ford announced this morning it's going to raise prices on three of its most popular cars because of these tariffs. Finally, Steve, President Trump dismissed the idea that economic uncertainty is on the rise and then doubled down on his plan to pass another tax cut. Here's what he said.

[Steve Rattner]

Are these tariffs permanent?

[Joe Scarborough]

I think there's only uncertainty in the fake news. We're trying to get approved right now the biggest tax cut in the history of our country. And if it doesn't get approved, it's a 68% tax increase. And that's what the Democrats want. They want a 68% tax increase. It's rather incredible.

[Willie Geist]

Steve, what's he talking about there?

[Joe Scarborough]

God only knows, Willie. I couldn't figure out what he was talking about there because I can't replicate those numbers at all. What he's talking about is what would happen if his tax cut from 2017, which has to be extended, were allowed to expire, which would mean taxes would go up. But here's what they would go up by, depending upon your income, they would go up by between $74, 36,000. But for the people at the top, that's only a 6% tax increase. For the people at the bottom, it's an 18% tax rate. But there's no 68% numbers in here anywhere. It is made up. But I also have to say that President Biden's last tax proposal was to extend these tax cuts for everybody except the very, very rich. And so why Trump is claiming that the Democrats would have taxes go up is mystery. And lastly, I think to sum up a lot of what we've been talking about, he also said, as you heard, that uncertainty is sort of a made up fake news idea. Well, there are indices of uncertainty actually compiled from legislative progress on the Hill. What's going on here, news reports, things like that. And what you can see here, this index goes back to 1985 when it was first created. Economic Uncertainty Index. This is Covid. It obviously spiked up enormously. This is Trump 2.0 holding second place now for creating economic uncertainty over the last 40 years. And in addition to that, more anecdotally, and you've seen a lot of this, you have company after company saying that they have to withdraw their earnings guidance this year. They can't predict what their earnings are going to be because life is so uncertain for them. Mattel Skecher, snap, Harley Davidson, Alaska Airlines, UPS and so forth. Company after company doing this because it is so uncertain. So to say we're not living in an uncertain time I think is a gross misrepresentation of the truth.

[Mika Brzezinski]

So, Steve, I want to talk about tax cuts really quickly and then we want to get to what the Fed said yesterday. But on tax cut cuts, any tax cuts, any new tax cuts, the extension of tax cuts, I would just say going to be absolutely devastating when it comes to our fiscal health. We're already over what, 36, 37 trillion dollars of possibility, the CBO has said, of the federal debt going up another 10 to 20 trillion dollars over the next decade that is unsustainable. It's something that I've been talking about now for 30 years. It's something you and I have been talking about on the show know for 15 years. When spending continues to skyrocket, when the Pentagon budget continues to skyrocket, when the cost of entitlement programs can continue to explode, when you're talking about giving tax cuts to billionaires and millionaires, these numbers don't add up. And we're talking about everything else except possibly the one thing that will take this country's economy to the cliff. Talk about that for a minute.

[Joe Scarborough]

Joe, we are headed no one, of course, knows exactly what Congress is going to do. But when you look at all the various proposals and things that are out there, we are headed for the worst damage that we have probably ever done to our fiscal situation. The Republicans are determined to pass a humongous tax bill, $4 trillion at least, maybe more. Remember, Trump made a lot of promises during the campaign about not taxing overtime, not taxing tips, all this stuff. So they're going to have to deal with that. But they're going to pass a massive tax bill. And on present course and speed, any kind of spending reductions or spending constraints are going to be really minimal. The Republicans margins in both the House and the Senate are so tight that when you have someone like a Josh Hawley say I don't want to cut Medicaid, makes it really hard to get the votes to cut Medicaid. And that's the way this process is working. And so you right now have a huge tax cut sitting up there and virtually nothing to be done on the spending side except increased spending for things like defense that we all agree we probably need to do that.

[Kristen Welker]

So meanwhile, as expected, the Federal Reserve is holding interest rates steady at the level they've been at since December. Fed Chair Jerome Powell said several times yesterday the central bank is in a wait and see moving.

[Steve Rattner]

If the large increases in tariffs that have been announced are sustained, they're likely to generate a rise in inflation, a slowdown in economic growth and an increase in unemployment. Look at the state of the economy. The labor market is solid, inflation is low.

[Joe Scarborough]

We can afford to be patient as things unfold.

[Steve Rattner]

There's no real cost to our waiting at this point.

[Mika Brzezinski]

So, Steve Rattner, this seems like a repeat of what we've been saying over the past four years where the Fed continued to raise interest, interest rates. They kept waiting for the economy to slow down. We expected a hard landing. We expected it not just you and me, I mean, all of Wall street, the banks expected a recession. Then we heard about the possibility of a soft landing. Then after the tariffs and the disruption, everybody started predicting a hard landing again. If you listen to Jerome Powell yesterday, he's saying, you know, there are a lot of indicators that things are going in a bad direction, but this economy still is resilient. We're going to have to wait and see, talk about that.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah, that's exactly right, Joe. We did much better these last few years than any of us would have thought. This still is an amazing economy that can just keep growing through a lot of uncertainty and a lot of factors that would bring down many other economies. But now, now Jerome Powell is in a tough spot because he's promised 2% inflation. Inflation. Inflation today is running at roughly 3% and going and perhaps going up based on the tariffs and so on and so forth, that the tariffs, as we've talked many times, will slow down. He and Powell said it yesterday, will not only add to inflation, they will slow down growth, they will lead to fewer jobs. That's what he said. Not me, Jerome Powell. But I happen to agree with that. And that's going to put the Fed in a really difficult position. Trump is beating the, the bejesus out of them to cut interest rates, but Powell has committed to get to 2% inflation. And he can't really cut interest rates until inflation comes down, but inflation may well be going up. So the Fed is really in a tough spot as to how to handle this. And there's another word for that scenario which I just outlined and frankly Powell kind of outlined, which is called stagflation. And that may be where we're headed, not like the 1980s, but, but a situation where we have higher inflation, less growth, and interest rates don't go down as fast as people would like.

[John Heilemann]

President Trump really continuing to pound the bejesus out of the Fed. Taking to truth Social to write too late. This is nickname for Joan Powell. Too late. Jerome Powell is a fool who doesn't have a clue other than that I like him very much. And he goes on to say some things are not true about prices going down and no inflation tariff money pouring in. But he ends by saying what's happening here is the exact opposite of too late and urges again the Federal Reserve to cut rates. There's real pressure from the White House.

[Willie Geist]

Quoting again, Chairman Powell yesterday said if the large increase in tariffs that have been announced are sustained, they're likely to generate a rise in inflation, a slowdown in economic growth and an increase in unemployment. That's from the Fed chair Jerome Powell. Morning Joe. Economic analyst Steve Ratner. A very, very busy morning. We appreciate you, but especially today. Steve, thanks so much.

[Joe Scarborough]

Thank you.

[Willie Geist]

Still.