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Morning Joe
Morning Joe 6/2/25
00:56:01
Eight injured in attack on Israeli hostage advocates in Colorado
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- [00:00]
Joe Scarborough
The bottom line is, even as the.
- [00:02]
Mika Brzezinski
Trump administration tries to end abortion access funding and shut down health centers, Planned Parenthood continues its vital work without flinching. The assault on reproductive health is strategic and persistent.
- [00:14]
Joe Scarborough
And who gets hurt the most? Women?
- [00:16]
Mika Brzezinski
People of color, Rural communities, folks with low incomes, the people who already face.
- [00:22]
Joe Scarborough
The biggest barriers to care. If you believe everyone deserves to control their own body and future, donate now@plannedparenthood.org defend your new beginning starts now. Dr. Horton has new construction homes available in Ellensburg and throughout the greater Seattle area. With spacious floor plans, flexible living spaces and home technology packages, you can enjoy more cozy moments and sweet memories in your beautiful new home. With new home communities opening in Ellensburg and throughout the Seattle area, Dr. Horton has the ideal home for you. Learn more@drhorton.com Dr. Horton, America's builder and equal Housing Opportunity Builder.
- [01:03]
Mika Brzezinski
I am a fiscal hawk. Many of my Republican colleagues in the House feel the same way. But it did not. We didn't get in this situation overnight, Kristen.
- [01:12]
David Ignatius
It took us decades, many decades of.
- [01:15]
Mika Brzezinski
Congress's, frankly, mismanagement of the public fisc to get in this situation. And the last four years, the Biden administration increased spending dramatically.
- [01:22]
David Ignatius
So it's going to take us a.
- [01:24]
Mika Brzezinski
While to get out of it.
- [01:26]
Joe Scarborough
You know, he says you can look at the Bible and figure out what type of speaker he is. Maybe I just want to give the speaker the benefit of the doubt here. Maybe he just doesn't know history. In fact, maybe he doesn't even know current events, because if he did, you would know that actually 20 years ago or so, Congress balanced a budget four years in a row. And over the past eight years, the Trump administration the first time passed the largest deficits, the biggest debt, the biggest budgets in history up to that point. Donald Trump's administration and the Republicans in the House of Representatives and maybe, I don't know, maybe Mike Johnson wasn't paying attention back then, but they increased the national debt more in four years than every other Congress and every other president had in the history of the country, cumulatively. And now, and I'm sorry to start the show this way, I just have to when somebody says something that is so misleading, excuse me here, so misleading. When somebody says something that's so misleading, you just, it's very, very important that people know that this budget that Mike Johnson is trying desperately to pass will help increase the federal debt by $20 trillion over the next 10 years. Let me just say that again. Mike Johnson is desperately working to pass a budget that will increase the national debt by $23 trillion over the next 10 years. Do you realize this country didn't even accumulate that much debt over its first 220 years of existence combined together from George Washington through Barack Obama. Think about this. From George Washington's term, beginning of George Washington's term, through the end of Barack Obama's term on January 20, 2016, 2017, the United States of America did not increase the national debt by as much as Mike Johnson's budget will increase the national debt over the next decade. And he says he's fiscally conservative. No, he's not. He's not at all. And again, how any Republican could ever claim to be conservative and vote for a budget that adds $20 trillion to a $37 trillion debt and wrecks our economy is just beyond me.
- [04:24]
Jonathan Lemire
Well, despite that, the speaker of the House on Meet the Press continued to dismiss projections. The sweeping domestic policy bill narrowly passed by House Republicans would add trillions to the national debt. So it comes as senators return to Capitol Hill today with that legislation at the top of their agenda. We'll go through the changes they're looking to make. Plus, Republican Senator Joni Ernst of Iowa doubling down on comments about possible cuts to Medicaid that angered her constituents at a town hall.
- [04:56]
Joe Scarborough
What we're going to be looking at, we're going to be looking at in the midterm elections, the richest man in the world wielding a chainsaw, bragging about cutting veterans benefits, bragging about cuts to farmers benefits, bragging about cuts to rural hospitals. You name it, all of the cuts, they're going to be looking at that. And then when Joni Ernst is asked what she's going to do about the fact that maybe 40% of children in the state of Iowa, her state, are going to be impacted by Medicaid cuts, and about 50% of seniors that are in nursing homes in her state are going to be impacted by these cuts. Her response is, well, we're all going to die anyway. And then she makes a joke about it in the graveyard. This is I'm sure Webster's Dictionary wants to kind of use video in the future. Put that next to clueless, because that's what these Republicans are right now. They're clueless. They're savaging health care in their own districts in their own states. And Joni Ernst feels confident enough not only to say, well, you're going to die anyway, then she feels confident enough that she can do whatever she wants to do, go into a graveyard and make jokes about how everybody's going to die anyway. Think about how she burst onto the scene. She was going to be the person that was going to go after pork barrel spending and all this squealing and all that other stuff. So that's how she starts. And this is where she comes to, which is again, making jokes about senior citizens who are going to have their health care gutted, about children in her state going to have their health care gutted. And her response is we can all die anyway later.
- [06:46]
Jonathan Lemire
We have a massive amount of news to cover this morning. Also ahead, we'll go through President Trump's new escalation with US Trade partners and the blockbuster deal he was touting on Friday. And we'll bring you the very latest out of each Eastern Europe after Ukraine's massive drone strike on Russian bombers called codename Spiderweb. This is and the Russians were caught in it.
- [07:10]
Joe Scarborough
This is, this is this is the story of the week, maybe the story of the month. It's extraordinary.
- [07:16]
Jonathan Lemire
Let's get right to it. With us, we have the co host of our fourth hour contributing writer at the Atlantic, Jonathan Lemaire, columnist and associate editor for the Washington Post, David Ignatius. Before that, though, we have breaking news in Colorado. A man is in custody this morning after authorities say he attacked a group of people in Boulder using a makeshift flamethrower while shouting free Palestine. The group was attacked as members were marching for awareness of Israeli hostages being held by Hamas in Gaza. Eight people injured, with the worst in critical condition. Authorities say they're investigating the assault as an attack of terrorism, an act of terrorism.
- [07:59]
Keir Simmons
When this call came out today, our.
- [08:01]
Joe Scarborough
Officers rushed as quickly as they could.
- [08:03]
Keir Simmons
Somewhere close to the area and they immediately ran into a chaotic situation where a man was throwing Molotov cocktails and using other devices to hurt people. Our officers, as they're trained, immediately interacted with the suspect, took him into custody.
- [08:17]
Joe Scarborough
And then began rendering aid to those victims.
- [08:21]
Jonathan Lemire
According to Boulder police booking reports, the suspect has been charged with first degree murder, among other offensive. We are currently seeking clarification from authorities since police have not publicly said anyone died following the attack. Let's go right to Boulder and NBC News correspondent Morgan Chasky. Morgan, what's the latest on the injured and are police saying anything more about a motive here?
- [08:48]
Michael Weiss
Yeah, they're digging into that. Joe. Mika, good morning. And a tragic morning here in Boulder. We know as for those eight victims injured in this horrific attack, they range in age from 52 years old to 88 years old. And authorities have said that there are four men and four women all of whom were taken to nearby hospitals to undergo treatment. We do believe at least one of those victims is in critical condition. The injuries are primarily significant and severe burns as a result of what this lone suspect, 45 year old Mohammed Solomon, was using. And authorities say it was a makeshift flamethrower combined with some incendiary devices they describe as Molotov cocktails. A combination of those two items is what he approached the group that was gathering near this popular outdoor mall in Boulder to take part in a weekly peaceful rally that they hold every Sunday afternoon to essentially honor the hostages that remain in Gaza. And this broke out around 1:26pm when the first 911 calls went out. And authorities say that they arrived. And it was a chaotic scene with multiple people suffering significant burns and the suspect walking around carrying bottles fil with some sort of unknown liquid shouting at them, antagonizing them. Fortunately, bystanders were able to treat multiple victims on the ground until authorities could move in and take that suspect into custody. As you mentioned, Mika, he does face murder charges in addition to a litany of others. And he is in custody as of right now. But his motive as investigators try to dig into his social media history still remains unclear at this hour.
- [10:32]
Jonathan Lemire
Mika, NBC News correspondent Morgan Chesky in Boulder, Colorado, thank you very much. We'll be following that.
- [10:39]
Joe Scarborough
Well, I mean, I would be surprised if we don't find out this, this person again. It sounds, it sounds like terrorism to me. You look at what's happened over the past couple weeks, it's just absolutely sickening. You look at the young couple who was engaged, Jewish couple who were slaughtered last week in Washington, D.C. and now here you have seniors that are marching to remember hostages that have been taken, brutalized, some raped, savaged by Hamas terrorists. And you have senior citizens that are out marching simply in Boulder, Colorado, to remember those, to remember those who are still being held hostage by the terror group Hamas and by other terror groups. And they are attacked. They're savage. It is. I have if this is an act of terrorism, I don't know what is. We'll see what happens moving forward with the FBI and the investigation.
- [11:41]
Jonathan Lemire
All right. Another major story we're following this morning. There are significant developments in Ukraine's efforts to hit back against Russian aggression. Ukraine launched a massive drone attack deep inside Russian territory. The New York Times calls a coordinated operation that targeted sites from eastern Siberia to Russia's western border. A source inside Ukraine's security service tells NBC News that more than 40 Russian bomber planes were targeted in the operation. Nearly 3,000 miles away from Ukraine. The mission, codenamed Spiderweb, is estimated to have cost Russia more than $2 billion worth of damage to its planes. The was planned over the past year and a half and involved a meticulous method of first smuggling the drones into Russia and then disguising them so they could be activated remotely. NBC News cannot independently verify the claims made by the Ukrainian source. However, Russia's Defense Ministry confirmed the attacks in a statement. There's also video. Let's bring in NBC News chief international correspondent Keir Simmons and editor at the Insider, Michael Watts. Good to have you both with us.
- [13:03]
Joe Scarborough
We'll be with you all in just one minute. David Ignatius, I want to begin with you. Though it is hard, is it not, to overstate the scale, the scope, the significance of these attacks. That's why we have the best panel of experts possible. I want to begin with you, David. Explain the scale and the scope of this and the strategic significance of it. And yes, the audacity of it. It's. Every part of this operation seems breathtaking. Tell us about it.
- [13:35]
David Ignatius
So, Joe, Operation Spiderweb does show that Ukraine still has the ability to attack Russia in creative, surprising, aggressive ways across the whole breadth of that vast country. The basic details that we've learned, that this was planned for 18 months, that the Ukrainians figured out a way to take these cheap little FPV drones, as they're called, and pack them and transport them to near the attack sites in ways that were invisible to the Russians, and then use them to attack some of the most strategic aircraft in the Russian fleet in these widely dispersed bases from Siberia all the way to Murmansk in the north. It's a statement, Joe and Mika, that contrary to what President Trump said just a few weeks ago, Ukraine does have cards. You remember Trump saying, you have no cards. Basically, you have to capitulate in these negotiations. And here's Ukraine on the day before negotiations are set to begin in Istanbul, saying, oh, yes, we do have cards. Take a look. It's said that there are 47 Russian planes that were in some way damaged. 117 Ukrainian drones are said to have been used in the attack. It's a startling statement. We're not as weak as you think we are.
- [15:01]
Joe Scarborough
Keir Simmons, I'm curious Russia's reaction to this and what you're hearing about the scale of these attacks.
- [15:13]
Keir Simmons
Well, Russia is calling it a terrorist attack, says the actions were, quote, repelled and that it has detained some involved. Although Ukraine says its operatives escaped Russia without capture. I Think that's probably a holding pattern by the Russians when inside Moscow. Our folks who are based there say that on the morning news in Moscow, there was very little reporting, if none of this, because the Russians will be kind of, you know, licking their wounds, frankly, as David suggests. I mean, to give you a picture, another picture of the statistics, according to the Ukrainians, 34% of Russia's cruise missile capable aircraft have been taken out by this attack. And just the audacity of it, you just, it's very difficult to describe to folks who haven't been to Russia how big Russia is. 11 time zones. You get it, you get that picture when you're over in Siberia or over in Vladivostok and you do a live shot for evening news shows on the east coast and it's the morning in Russia, I mean, it is enormous. It's a long, long way from Ukraine. And for Ukraine to have been capable of doing this, be capable over all of those months of hiding those drones in those, in those cargo trucks and then to release images of those trucks, the roofs, the roof opening remotely of those Russian bombers burning on the tarmac, unprotected is another point. The Russians were so confident that these long range bombers were not able to be struck, that they were not in hangars, protected. They were frankly, unprotected. I mean, to David's point about cards, there's a meme going around and of course, there's so much propaganda that follows these kinds of things. There's a meme going around that is a king of drones playing card. It is like something from a spy thriller. The actual operation, it really is. Of course, there now will be questions about how President Putin will respond. We haven't heard from him yet. He has his delegation in Istanbul right now in Turkey negotiating with the Ukrainians. One of the questions has been Ukrainians, according to an envoy like Keith Kellogg, President Trump's envoy have put forward their term sheet for what they want, their negotiating position. The Russians haven't done that. The Trump administration is saying, okay, President Putin, you've got weeks before we get fed up with this. Give us your term sheet. The question is whether a strike like this puts pressure on President Putin to negotiate more or angers him and leads to further strikes. Just this weekend, I should just say, and I point out it's important to say there were further strikes in Ukraine. 71 year old woman killed. So the. Despite the talk by the Trump administration of a cease fire, frankly, there is no sign on the ground in real terms of a ceasefire on either side.
- [18:25]
Joe Scarborough
And it certainly doesn't escape notice of most observers here that Vladimir Putin often targets civilians in a terror campaign, kills elderly people in apartment complexes, children on playgrounds. The Ukrainians, of course, attacking military sites over this weekend. Michael, I'll bring you in here. The asymmetry of all of this is also breathtaking. We've talked about the scale and the scope of it, the strategic importance. But, Michael, let's talk about the asymmetry of it. Is Michael here? Can we get Michael up? Thank you. The asymmetry of all of this, Michael, where drones can be used, launched from 18 wheelers and blowing up these planes instead of aircraft carriers.
- [19:13]
Mika Brzezinski
I mean, what we don't appreciate, I think, in the west is there's been a complete revolution in 21st century Warfare pioneered by the Ukrainians. I mean, drones are their wonder often, I mean, of this campaign. And they'll tell you, I mean, we talk about U.S. security assistance, which is deeply important. They need three things. They need air defense systems which can shoot down ballistic missiles, rocket artillery such as ATACMS and GMLers for their HIMARS howitzer ammunition. But they will also emphasize, look, now, this war is much different from what it was in 2022. 40% of what Ukraine relies on for its defense capability is domestically sourced, including and especially these FPV drones, which now run on fiber optic cables. An entire fleet of pilots are trained to do nothing but fly these things. And I mean, you have to appreciate, Joe, this is a military intelligence operation planned 18 months, completely undetected by Russia, which is one of the most invigilated countries on the planet. The fsb, the successor to the kgb, they control the border. The Ukrainians managed to recruit assets inside Russia, smuggle these things into concealed compartments in shipping containers, then have lorries drive those shipping containers within striking distance of multiple at least four, possibly five different airfields. And they've possibly taken out now a third of Russia's strategic bombers. You know, one of the things Ukraine will tell you is they run low on air defense systems. The Trump administration is apparently looking to find new Patriot missile batteries for them to put around major cities, population centers. You mentioned that the Russians are very fond of attacking civilians. This is a huge problem for them. So what they do is what's known as targeting the archer rather than the arrows. These planes are the ones that shoot cruise missiles at Ukrainian women and children and destroy apartment blocks on a daily basis. So this is a massive, massive coup for Ukraine. And I just want to emphasize, if you go back now and rewatch that footage of Volodymyr Zelenskyy sitting in the Oval Office having his two minutes of hate session by Donald Trump and JD Vance, who were telling him, you have no agency without the United States. You're finished, you're done. You have no cards. In the back of the Ukrainian president's mind was, oh, yeah, wait till you see what's up my sleeve.
- [21:21]
Joe Scarborough
Next, let's bring in right now former U.S. ambassador to both Sweden and Poland, Mark Brzezinski. Mr. Ambassador. Mark, we want to get you in on this conversation because it's very interesting. I've made a couple of trips to Europe over the past six months, and we've talked about a lot of things about where the United States is going, but also where this war is going. And I was fascinated. Whenever the conversations turned to military, suddenly, in whispered tones, people around the table that knew about this war and knew about weapons started talking about drone warfare. And they were saying, it's going to be a type of drone warfare that is going to forever change battlefields. And at the time, of course, the Houthis were shooting drones at ships that. And we were talking about the asymmetry of that. But I was told two, three months ago, just wait and see what's being developed that's going to be used against the Russians. You obviously served on the front lines as an ambassador there in Poland. Talk about what happened over the weekend and how this may be the future of this war.
- [22:43]
Mark Brzezinski
And I'm speaking to you from Warsaw, Poland, this morning. Joe and Mika, thank you for having me. This is an important development in the sense that these are attacks well within Russia. And remember, during the Biden administration, there was a lot of pressure put on the Ukrainians to keep the battle within the battlefields of Ukraine. And now we're talking about airfields deep into Russia, which shows one, the innovative capacity of the Ukrainians fighting for their lives is practically limitless in terms of what they pulled off, but also, too, that the battlefield is changing. And remember when President Putin first became president, replacing Boris Yeltsin In 2000, the Chechen war with Russia was going on. And at first, the Chechen war was contained within the borders of Chechnya, Dagestan and Ingushetia in the North Caucasus. And then the Chechens began to hit inside Russia, including in Moscow, but also in territories well within Russia. And Putin very quickly changed his tactics to scorch to earth with regard to Chechnya. So we'll see what happens in terms of the retaliation from the Russian side. Today, everyone wants these efforts towards peace to be successful, for there ultimately to be a fair peace, a ceasefire and a rebuilding of Ukraine. My, my worry is that we're going to see this drag on for a long time. We're approaching 1 million casualties on the Russian side. I repeat, 1 million casualties. When the Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan in the 1980s, it was after 40,000 casualties. Today, we're talking 1 million casualties on the Russian side. And Putin shows no sign of wanting to truly address peace.
- [24:44]
Michael Weiss
The word we keep coming back to here is audacious, that this was such an extraordinary, audacious move by the Ukrainians, that one of the military bases more than 2500 miles from the Ukrainian border and they were to hit it, and then they put out all this footage. Dave Ignatius. It's definitely a propaganda win too. It's almost like a video game. The shot there of the landing strip with the bombers being detonated one after another. So we should note the White House, White House aides told me last night they were not given any heads up on this. They did not know it was coming. That seemed to be a point of pride from President Zelensky's messages on social media. This is something that Ukraine did and Ukraine did alone. We have not yet heard from President Trump. I imagine we will today as to what he thinks of this. We also have not heard yet from President Putin, as mentioned earlier. So, David, talk to us a little bit more about exactly what was hit here, what Russia just lost and now the pressure on Putin to respond. These negotiators are meeting in Istanbul this week. You know, we have seen there have been another number of times in this conflict where people thought Putin might have been pushed across his red line and then, and strike back in an unprecedented way. He hasn't. At least not yet. Do you think that could change here?
- [25:54]
David Ignatius
So, Jonathan, the targets were widely dispersed. It was a demonstration that Ukraine can, can strike in ways that Russia simply isn't expecting. These planes, these facilities appear to have been almost undefended. So obvious to the Russians that they, that they were basically invulnerable to attack. That'll all be reevaluated. I have a feeling, to be honest, that we should see this as a great tactical success, you know, stunning display of what Ukraine can do, but it isn't likely to change the strategic balance in this war. Ukraine is signaling that it can continue to fight and intends to continue. It's a message on the eve of negotiations. We're not desperate. We're not going to settle for whatever Russia dictates as terms we're prepared to fight on. But these attacks illustrate additionally Ukraine's ability to operate invisibly inside Russia. They could move the, the drones inside these containers, it seems, at will. And the Ukrainian intelligence services can do a lot of other things inside Russia. If anything, I'd see this as a prelude to other kinds of attacks, maybe not on airfields, but other targets that the Ukrainians want to hit. So I think the takeaway for me is Ukraine, as I said earlier, has more cards than President Trump suggested and Ukraine is prepared to fight a longer war. This, this terrible war, this, this bloodbath, as President Trump has called it, seems to me likely to continue for, for a year or two more because neither side seems willing to make the fundamental concessions.
- [27:45]
Joe Scarborough
And as Mark said, I mean, almost a million casualties on the Russian side when 40,000 actually was enough to end the war in Afghanistan. Mr. Ambassador, I know you have to go. We have a hard out. Final thoughts on Ukraine and also the president presidential race in Poland yesterday was had more ceremonial than the, obviously than the prime Minister in Poland, where almost all the power is. But, but, but final thoughts on Ukraine and also on the election yesterday.
- [28:19]
Mark Brzezinski
Well, on Ukraine, the, the 14 countries in Central Europe remain absolutely steadfast supporters of the Ukrainian people. And reg. The decisions of other countries will continue to provide resources for the Ukrainians to fight this war. And so if, as David says, the war continues to go on, the Ukrainians will find the material to arm their troops and their efforts. I'm speaking to you from Warsaw, Poland, where there was frankly almost a redux of the election, Trump Biden or Trump Harris, in the sense that you had a, a highly international, progressive, multilingual media savvy candidate on one side and a candidate who represents the Poles who feel that they've been left out of the economic miracle of modern Poland and are reacting against the capitol. That is the presidential election that happened in Poland yesterday with Carol Novrotsky, the conservative, winning. In many ways, the Trump administration was directly involved in this election in the sense that they sent cabinet member Christy Noem, the Secretary for Homeland Security here last week, to headline a CPAC conference in Warsaw to send the message that, you know, President Trump is with Carol Novrotsky, who is the victor. So it's a very much a political win. But the important, I think, takeaway for President Elect Nosky of Poland is whether he can get into the ear of the top Trump foreign policy team in a way that his predecessors have not been able to because the polls simply have not been at the table when it comes to negotiations between Ukraine and Russia. Despite being holding the presidency of the European Council, Carol Novrotsky has won. It's a political win also for the Trump administration. Can Novrotsky convert that into closer ties with the top Trump team? We shall see.
- [30:26]
Jonathan Lemire
All right, former U.S. ambassador to both Sweden and Poland, Mark Brzezinski with us from Warsaw. Thank you very much, Mark. Talk to you later. So, Keir Simmons, back to Ukraine. Given the humiliation and the extensive losses in this drone attack, Operation Spiderweb, that Ukraine carried out, what's the hope of these peace talks today in Istanbul?
- [30:57]
Keir Simmons
Oh, very slim, Mika. Honestly, we got from the last peace talks, which were the first direct talks between Russia and Ukraine for years. We got a prisoner exchange, a lot of prisoners, but they'd already been carrying out prisoner exchanges and not much else. I don't think that either side is expecting very much to come out of this. The Americans are there, too. So are the various officials from European, major European capitals. But the real issue here is that all of, as we've been saying, all of what we know about Moscow is that President Putin looks comfortable, looks confident. Just one data point which I think was really interesting in recent weeks is that it emerges that he didn't ask, according to intelligence that has been reported, he didn't ask the North Koreans for the troops that they sent. The North Koreans offered to send them. And what does that tell you about what? Because remember that when that happened, there was a lot of speculation that that meant that Russia was struggling with its forces. What does that tell you really, about where the Russians really think they are now over a longer period? They may well, given the losses that you've been talking about, they may well face serious issues with recruitment. But so far, that hasn't shown up in the numbers. And the Russians, here's what the Russians are calculating. Ultimately. They are calculating that the west will run out of steam, will lose its ability, its enthusiasm, if you like, to support Ukraine. That isn't what we're seeing from the Europeans. Of course, I think there's still a question about the U.S. despite the different things that President Trump has said. But President Putin will play the, the diplomatic cards, if you like, that he has. I'll just give you another example of that. The Russians are signaling that they are looking for another prisoner exchange between the US And Russia. So another big exchange, the like of which we saw under the Biden administration. And that would be something if the Russians are able to get the Americans to agree to that. And to do it, that would be something that might put President Putin in a position where he says, you see, sorry, President Trump in a position where he says, you see, President Putin is trying to be a good guy, if you like. So I think there are many weeks ahead, months ahead, probably, frankly, in terms of this war, years ahead.
- [33:27]
David Ignatius
Michael Weiss, this is David in Washington. I just wanted to jump in with a question. You spoke interestingly before about this new age of drone warfare that Ukraine is helping to pioneer. Do you think Ukrainian capabilities are strong enough with their drones that they'll be able to resist what Russia is suggesting will be a new summer offensive hitting the Ukrainian lines in the east hard? Are their drones strong enough to hold that line?
- [34:00]
Mika Brzezinski
It's an excellent question. And you know, I should mention Ukraine isn't the only one that is innovating and adapting with drone warfare. The Russians are doing the exact same thing. I mean, you've got about a 15 kilometer buffer zone all along the thousand mile contact line in Ukraine, which is kind of a gray zone, a no man's land, if you like, where neither side can break through precisely because the sky is swarming with these drones. The Russians are terrified of them, but the Ukrainians are also terrified of them. And I think it remains to be seen, does Russia, it certainly has the manpower in the sense that recruitment efforts are going pretty well for Putin. I mean, they're paying higher salaries to these mobigs that they're sending to the front line. But do they have the military capability to go in and seize more territory? The Ukrainians seem to think that they can withstand this summer offensive. But a lot, David, is going to depend on security assistance. I mean, they still very much need things that only the United States can provide. And you know, one of the central questions we have to ask ourselves is if Donald Trump decides he wants to walk away from, from peace negotiations and diplomacy, does that mean he's going to walk away from, forget about donating weapons to Ukraine? I think that that ship has sailed. But will he sell weapons directly to Ukraine? And more important than that, will he allow weapons that are sold to the Europeans, including Patriot missile systems and so on, to be donated to Ukraine, to Ukraine? In other words, will he allow third party transfers? If he does that, then Ukraine has a pretty good chance of staying in the fight for a long time. Time.
- [35:27]
Joe Scarborough
So, Michael, let me just ask you in closing. At the start of this war, the Russian military was the second most powerful in the world, most would say, but just behind the United States. Can you talk about the remarkable losses that the Russian military has as endured throughout this war. I mean, the numbers from what I've read, just seem to be breathtaking. Not just manpower, but also in terms of equipment.
- [35:58]
Mika Brzezinski
Yeah, I mean, thousands of main battle tanks. You know, the reporting on the battle damage assessment of this drone strike is still a little bit sketchy. Ukrainians are coming out very gung ho about having hit 41 aircraft, a third of the strategic bombers. As mentioned earlier, among the aircraft that they claim to have destroyed or damaged are two A50s. These are like the AWACS of the Russian Air Force, the Soviet era, machines that are not able to be reproduced or remanufactured. And they only have six. So if Ukraine took out two, I mean, that is something that every NATO military and every NATO intelligence service could only dream about doing, especially with no casualties on the Western side. So, yeah, I think it's been extraordinary. Ukrainians have done two things very well in the last several years. Number one, they have dismantled years, decades I would say, of Kremlin propaganda about if you punch us in the nose, we're going to nuke everything. Right. This is the so called red lines that we keep talking about. Ukraine violates them. Russia does not escalate in the way that it has threatened to do. So it's dismantled the propaganda, but it is also physically hollowing out this great shiny new Russian army that the former Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu claim to have built. And I mean, one of the things that people like Alexei Navalny, the slain Russian opposition leader, would tell you before he died is that corruption in Putin's Russia has itself hollowed out every major institution, not least of all the military industrial complex. So it's important not to take the Russian sort of Potemkin image of what they can do at face value. There's a lot of bluster. There's a lot of myth making here. And the Ukrainians really want to demonstrate, especially in the United States, that they can continue this fight almost with impunity.
- [37:45]
Jonathan Lemire
Editor for the Insider, Michael Weiss, thank you very much. And NBC's Keir Simmons, thank you as well for your reporting on all of this. And still ahead on Morning Joe, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer will be our guest as the Senate prepares to take up the House passed domestic policy bill to advance President Trump's agenda. We'll talk with him about what Democrats are doing to counter Republicans. Plus, as we mentioned at the top of the show, we'll show you Republican Senator Joni Ernst's sarcastic apology after telling her constituents. We're all going to die. Morning jevis. Back in 90 seconds.
- [38:27]
Jonathan Greenblatt
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- [38:58]
Michael Weiss
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Jonathan Greenblatt
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Michael Weiss
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- [39:29]
Mika Brzezinski
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- [39:58]
Jonathan Lemire
See site for details. 37 past the hour. Time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. The leader of Syria facing a challenge from the same insurgents that helped him topple the Assad regime late last year. Thousands of foreign fighters remain in that country, but the Trump administration is demanding those militants leave as a condition for easing American sanctions. That is a tough balancing act for Syria's new leadership, which has appointed some of the men to top positions while others are operating outside a centralized command structure. Hundreds of Democrats gathered in California over the weekend to prepare for next year's elections. Several contenders for governor were there in person, but not not former Vice President Kamala Harris, who spoke in a three minute video message instead, according to The New York Times the response to that address was tepid and left many in the crowd questioning just how seriously she was considering a run. And three of President Trump's cabinet members are visiting Alaska this week as the administration looks to boost oil and gas drilling, including in the pristine Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. While many indigenous communities oppose development there, others say the work would bring new jobs and revenue to the region. The Biden administration canceled drilling leases in 2023amid a pledge to address climate change.
- [41:38]
Michael Weiss
Jonathan, we'll certainly be watching that as it happens. But we want to return now to, to some of the breaking news and more reaction now to that brazen attack in Boulder, Colorado, where a man is in police custody this morning after officials say he used a makeshift flamethrower to attack a group of people marching yesterday in support of the Israeli hostages in Gaza, injuring at least eight. Joining us now, the CEO of the Anti Defamation League, Jonathan Greenblatt. Good morning, Jonathan. Thank you for being here. This, as we noted at the top of the show, comes just a short time after this attack in Washington, D.C. outside an event there that left two members of the Israeli embassy slain. Now this in broad daylight, the attacks here give us just your sense here. As you sat down, you and I were talking about how it's sort of just one terrible hate filled headline after another.
- [42:32]
Jonathan Greenblatt
Yeah, I mean, this is really a very, very terrible time. I think first I'll just say that our hearts go out to these victims. I think their status is still unclear, although it was said at the top by the correspondent. It appears that this man is being charged with murder. We know that eight elderly people were affected by this attack. And look, this happens in an environment where we're seeing incitement against Jewish people, against Zionists in the United States and really around the world over the last few days. We had vandalism against synagogues and a kosher restaurant in Paris. We had Jewish youth attacked in London. We had public graffiti calling to kill Jews in Brisbane, Australia. And then, of course, as you said 12 days ago, the murder of two people coming out of the Capitol Jewish Museum. By the way, it's 45 days since Governor Shapiro's mansion, the governor's mansion in Harrisburg was firebombed. And in all these cases, the assailants, the would be killers, have said things like free Palestine. The man yesterday said, I want to end all Zionists. He asked a group of elderly people marching peacefully, as you said, to remember the 58 hostages held in Gaza for 600 plus days. He said how many children have you killed. So I think we need to recognize that this dangerous rhetoric, globalizing, Intifada, river to the sea, by any means necessary. It reminds me, Jonathan, of the climate that we saw back in 2018 when there was incitement against immigrants. And Robert Bowers said, screw the optics. I'm going in and killed people in that synagogue, the Tree of Life congregation in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. That was the bloodiest attack on the Jewish people in the United States in our history. And now we have attack after attack again in an environment of incitement.
- [44:24]
Joe Scarborough
Jonathan, we've been talking about it for years, you and I. And you have been every day, every week, every month, been charting anti Semitic attacks in America and across the globe. Talk about how we're really at a tipping point right now as the anti Semitic attack really have begun to spiral out of control over the past month or two.
- [44:50]
Jonathan Greenblatt
Yeah, I mean, the level of insanity, Joe, isn't like anything that we have ever tracked. ADL has been doing this longer than any other organization in America. And we have broken the record for the number of anti Semitic incidents year after year, five of the last six years. Last year alone, nearly 9,400 acts of harassment and vandalism and violence that we track. That's literally 10x what we saw in America when I started in 2015. Literally again, the highest number ever. And if you think about it, I mean, there's a reason why. I mean, we're lucky, Joe, that the casualty count isn't higher because every synagogue, every Jewish school, Jewish businesses, have security, have cameras, have armed guards, have bulletproof glasses. It isn't normal. And we cannot allow the incitement to be normalized. And one thing I'll just say about this attack, this was not some accident. I know it was stated earlier. We're unclear about the motives. You know who was very clear about the motives? The suspect. The man who literally, with a makeshift flamethrower and Molotov cocktails, attacked these people. He said, like the shooter 12 days ago. Free Palestine. The FBI is reporting that. So they're creating this environment where you conflate all Jewish people with actions you don't like in the Middle East. It's racist and it's wrong. And I'm sorry. I, like, refuse to believe that my children here in America have to be afraid when they walk to services. Today is the Jewish holiday of Shavuot. It's a day when Jews around the world celebrate when God gave Moses a Ten Commandments. It's about our identity, our covenant, if you will. And the idea that there are people coming after us, assailing us, trying to murder us because of that covenant. Look, it's not just anti Semitic, although it is. It's anti American to hold out to harass and to target people because of how they pray or what they believe.
- [46:52]
Joe Scarborough
Right. And in this case, again, Micah, these people were attacked savagely for simply trying to remember the hostages that, that are still being held that were abducted. Talk about terrorists by Hamas terrorists.
- [47:12]
Jonathan Lemire
CEO of the Anti Defamation League, Jonathan Greenblatt, thank you very much for coming on.
- [47:17]
Joe Scarborough
Thank you, Jonathan.
- [47:18]
Jonathan Lemire
Thank you so much this morning. And coming up, Elon Musk is opening up about his time as special government employee in the White House. House and working directly with the president will play for you some of his comments. That's straight ahead on Morning Joe.
- [47:53]
Jonathan Greenblatt
Building a business may feel like a big jump, but on deck small business loans can help keep you afloat. With lines of credit up to $100,000 and term loans up to $250,000, OnDeck lets you choose the loan that's right for your business. As a top rated online small business lender, OnDeck's team of loan advisors can help you find the right business loan to fit your needs. Visit ondeck.com for more information. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by Ondeck or Celtibank. Ondeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.
- [48:23]
Joe Scarborough
Hey guys.
- [48:24]
Michael Weiss
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- [48:55]
Mika Brzezinski
Busy work weeks can leave you feeling drained. Prolon's five day nutrition program rejuvenates you at the cellular level with boxes labeled by day so you know exactly what to eat. Developed at USC's Longevity Institute, Prolon supports biological age reduction, metabolism, skin health and fat loss when combined with proper exercise and nutrition. Get 15% off plus a $40 bonus gift when you subscribe@prolonlife.com pand or a promo. These statements have not been evaluated by the fda. Products are not intended to diagnose treat or prevent disease. See site for details.
- [49:27]
Joe Scarborough
The math doesn't really add up. One of the things this big and beautiful bill is, is it's a vehicle for increasing spending for the military and for the border. It's about $320 billion in new spending. To put that in perspective, that's more than all the Doge cuts that we found so far. So the increase in spending put into this bill exceeds the Doge cuts. I think they're asking for too much money. And in the end, the way you add it up to see if it actually is going to save money or add money is how much debt are they going to borrow? 5 trillion over two years. Enormous amount. If the big beautiful bill does add to the debt, will President Trump own.
- [50:05]
Jonathan Greenblatt
That.
- [50:09]
Mika Brzezinski
It'S not going to add to the debt?
- [50:10]
Joe Scarborough
Are you, are you really telling the American people this will not add one.
- [50:14]
Jonathan Lemire
Penny to the debt and deficit?
- [50:15]
Joe Scarborough
You can guarantee that?
- [50:18]
Mika Brzezinski
I am telling you this is going to reduce the deficit. There are no Medicaid cuts in the big beautiful bill. We're not cutting Medicaid. What we're doing is strengthening the program. We're reducing fraud, waste and abuse that is rampant in Medicaid. Those 4.8 million people will not cut lose their Medicaid unless they choose to do so. The people who are complaining that these people are going to lose their coverage because they can't fulfill the paperwork. This is minor enforcement of this policy.
- [50:48]
David Ignatius
And it follows common sense.
- [50:51]
Joe Scarborough
No, it doesn't follow common sense. And I'm not sure why you would ask if this adds to the debt, it's going to add to the debt. Mike Barnacle, the Congressional Budget Office suggests it's going to add 20 trillion to the debt over the next decade. We're going to add $20 trillion to debt over the next decade. This will contribute significantly to it. Mike Johnson knows that. Reporters know that. Everybody knows that. They also know we're on a precipice and we're going to fall off that press preface it. When the debt bomb goes off, you talk to anybody on Wall street, they'll tell you this, this is not sustainable. And we have Mike Johnson, speaker of the House, with a straight face, saying this is not going to add to the debt. When every single Republican in Washington knows it, Mike. They know it and they're going to take us over the cliff on this debt. I know of what I speak. I've been following this my own. We continue blindly move forward. I've said it. When Democrats are in power, I've said It when Republicans are in power. But the only time Republican elected leaders seem to give a damn about deficits, other than we have Rand Paul there actually sound like he gave a damn. But most of them, the only time they give a damn is when the Democrats in the White House. When the Republicans in the White House, they don't care. So the question, Joe, is nearly everyone with just and a minor interest, a minor knowledge of the American financial system can see that fuse burning towards the debt bomb exploding. Anyone with any common sense knows it's going to explode given what the Republican.
- [52:39]
Mark Brzezinski
House has done passing this bill.
- [52:41]
Joe Scarborough
Now, the question really is why? Why in the face of common sense and math, nearly everybody involved in it, with an independent statute, us looks at it and says, whoa, this is not going to be just my problem or your problem. It's going to be our children and our grandchildren and it is going to explode unless they begin to get some common sense into this thing.
- [53:06]
Jonathan Lemire
All right? Meanwhile, Republican Senator Joni Ernst of Iowa is defending comments she made at a town hall event on Friday. Ernst was criticized for her response to constituents who were angry over proposed cuts to Medicaid. Despite the backlash, the senator doubled down, posting our a sarcastic apology video that appears to be filmed at a cemetery. Take a look at her original comment and then what she had to say later. So we people are not well. We all are going to die. So for heaven's sake, sakes, for heaven's sakes, folks. Hello, everyone. I would like to take this opportunity to sincerely apologize for a statement that I made yesterday at my town hall. See, I was in the process of answering a question that had been asked by an audience member when a woman who was extremely distraught screamed out from the back corner of the auditorium, people are going to die. And I made an incorrect assumption that everyone in the auditorium understood that, yes, we are all going to perish from this earth. So I apologize. And I'm really, really glad that I did not have to bring up the subject of the tooth fairy as well. But for those that would like to see eternal and everlasting life, I encourage you to embrace my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
- [55:01]
Joe Scarborough
Oh, that makes it okay? You throw Jesus under the bus? You actually mock people that tell you the truth, that about 40% of children in your home state depend on Medicaid for their primary health care, that up to 50% of seniors in nursing homes depend on Medicaid and the funding for Medicaid, and you're mocking them and talking about the tooth fairy and voting for a bill that is going to savage rural health care in your home state. Rural health care over the past 10 years. Talk to anybody in rural health care. They'll tell you this. Talk to Republicans running hospitals in Iowa. Talk to doctors, Republican doctors who never voted for a Democrat before in Iowa.
- [56:05]
Mika Brzezinski
Iowa.
- [56:06]
Joe Scarborough
Talk to people that run nursing homes in Iowa that have never voted for a Democrat before. Talk to pediatricians in Iowa and rural Iowa who probably never voted for a Democrat before. They'll all tell you that cutting Medicaid is going to have a substantial impact. These proposed cuts are going to have a substantial impact on rural health care. We had a rural health care specialist on about a month ago talking about these cuts and Jonathan Lemire, again, it's, I guess this is what Republican politicians in Washington, D.C. too, when they get desperate. Not sure why they do this because, you know, we, we just out and out told people what we were going to do when we were balancing the budget. Did it four times in a row. Didn't do it without savaging people. We did it without savaging people here, though. They're going to vote for tax cuts for Elon Musk, other billionaires, richest people on earth, and they're going to cut Medicaid, which again, for Joni Ernst in rural Iowa actually provides an enormous amount of funding for health care in the state of Iowa. And she decides she's going to a cemetery and talk about the tooth fairy and then throw Jesus under the bus at the end. I'm not sure how that squares up with the red letters in the Gospels. I'm not really not sure how it squares, but I guess she tried to do it. But so bizarre video and also especially bizarre when what she was being told by her constituents during that town hall meeting is something that every Republican with rural hospitals, with rural nursing homes, with rural pediatric centers, they know it to be the truth.
- [58:17]
Jonathan Lemire
Truth.
- [58:17]
Joe Scarborough
Like, how has she become this, how has she become this type of legislator? I'm just, I'm at a loss.
- [58:26]
Michael Weiss
Yeah. Well, first, to your point about the bill itself, it's right. This is going to provide tax cuts for the wealthy and it's going to slash services to the poor, including the rural poor. Republicans can try to spin that away. They can try to run away from it. It's simply there. We heard from Speaker Johnson as well, claiming it's not going to drive up the deficit. And of course it is. We can do the math. As for that video, what the hell? Like, I mean, that was, that was some of the strangest politics I've ever seen.
- [58:51]
Jonathan Lemire
It's really weird.
- [58:52]
Michael Weiss
And what it is is it's an evolution of just how Trumpified the Republican Party has been in terms of his guiding ethos. Never apologize.
- [59:01]
Joe Scarborough
You always just go forward.
- [59:03]
Michael Weiss
You keep pushing, you never back down. And she tried to do it with these jokes in the cemetery that just landed so poorly. It was so tone deaf. She got legitimate anger in that town hall. She didn't know how to handle it. Then she said something that she knew and her team surely knew was going to be used in a campaign ad against her, a made for TV moment. We're all going to die. And instead of trying to walk it back, she goes. She pushes forward. Let's remember, I think the other important context here is Senator Ernst in particular was the one who was the victim of a pressure campaign from MAGA allies over the confirmation battle for Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth. She was seen as sort of the swing vote that might submarine his bid to run the Pentagon. She was threatened with a primary from the right. She didn't want to face that. She changed her vote. She came around. She voted for Hegseth. But it's very clear that she's still dealing with that and is gun shy of trying to do anything to cross what she believes the president wants because she's afraid she might be gonna battle internally to hang onto her seat.
- [60:11]
Mika Brzezinski
Busy work weeks can leave you feeling drained. Prolon's five day nutrition program rejuvenates you at the cellular level with boxes labeled by day so you know exactly what to eat. Developed at USC's Longevity Institute, Prolon supports biological age reduction, metabolism, skin health and fat loss. Loss when combined with proper exercise and Nutrition. Get 15% off plus a $40 bonus gift when you subscribe at prolonlife.com PandoraProMo these statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. Products are not intended to diagnose, treat or prevent disease. See site for details.