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- [00:00]
Joe Scarborough
America's beverage companies are investing in America. We're American companies making American products with American workers in America's hometowns. We're local bottlers and manufacturers operating in all 50 states employing more than 275,000Americans in good paying jobs delivering for the nation because we believe in the promise of America and the people who make it great. Learn more@wedeliverforamerica.org paid for by the American Beverage Association.
- [00:31]
Mika Brzezinski
The bottom line is, even as the Trump administration tries to end abortion access, slash funding and shut down health centers, Planned Parenthood continues its vital work without flinching. The assault on reproductive health is strategic and persistent.
- [00:45]
Jonathan Lemire
And who gets hurt the most?
- [00:46]
Mika Brzezinski
Women, People of color, rural communities, folks with low incomes. The people who already face the biggest barriers to care. If you believe everyone deserves to control their own body and future, donate now@plannedparenthood.org defend.
- [01:02]
Donald Trump
I've always liked Elon and it's always very surprised. You saw the words he had for me. The words and he hasn't said anything about me. That's bad. I'd rather have him criticize me than the bill because the bill is incredible. He knew every aspect of this bill. He knew it better than almost anybody. And he never had a problem until right after he left. Look, Elon and I had a great relationship. I don't know if we will anymore. I was surprised because you were here. Everybody in this room practically was here as we had a wonderful send off. He said wonderful things about me. You couldn't have nicer said the best thing.
- [01:40]
Joe Scarborough
President Trump in the Oval Office yesterday as Elon Musk was escalating his feud with the president online, leading to a complete meltdown on social media. We will dig into their full back and forth. It is extraordinary. Also ahead, the latest from Ukraine after a series of Russian missile and drone strikes on Kyiv overnight. It comes as President Trump suggested both countries might need to fight for a little while. Meanwhile, President Trump and President Xi of China have agreed to an in person meeting on trade talks. We'll look at whether an actual deal might come out of that. Sit down. And game one of the NBA Finals did not disappoint. If you went to bed thinking it was a blowout, the thunder maybe we're going to sweep the series. Here's what happened late last night. Clock and game clock. Gildis Alexander spins, pulls up, jumper off.
- [02:34]
Ali Vitale
Lamar won't go.
- [02:35]
Joe Scarborough
Rebound N. Pacers with a chance to win it. Final seconds. No fouls to give. Haliburton looking. Haliburton driving Pulls up.
- [02:43]
Garrett Hake
Jump shot.
- [02:44]
Mika Brzezinski
It's gone.
- [02:45]
Joe Scarborough
It's gone with 3.10of a second remaining. Timeout. Okay, Jonathan Lemire. Jonathan Lemire. Tyrese Halliburton. Tyrese Halliburton. This guy. If you're having flashbacks as a Knicks fan, it's because this is exactly what happened in game one of the Eastern Conference Finals. You got a game at home you think you're going to win. The Thunder were up 15 points in the fourth quarter. They were terrible, the Pacers in the first half. I confess I missed the second half turning the ball over, suffocating defense from the Thunder. SGA was great with 38 points, but the Pacers stage this comeback. And Halliburton hits the jumper. Now they steal game one of the NBA Finals on the road.
- [03:25]
Ali Vitale
The Pacers had one lead all night right there, 111 to 110 with three seconds to go. I also. I think most of America flipped this game off at halftime. The Pacers played terribly to start and finished with a total of 25 turnovers. Just seven for Oklahoma City. The Thunder go into this series, as we've talked about it, Willie, that's sort of like the secret juggernaut. They've had one of the best seasons any NBA team ever has. They're almost unbeatable at home. A lot of predictions thought this would be a very short series, but the Pacers keep coming. Haliburton didn't even play that well on the hole last night, but got the big shot at the end. And, hey, we've got a series now. One nothing Indiana.
- [04:07]
Joe Scarborough
Yeah, he did it against the Knicks. Hit a big shot against Cleveland. Hit a big shot in Milwaukee. This has been months of this. Now for this, Tyrese Halliburton, who is now maybe Mr. Big Shot of the NBA. We'll have full highlights coming up later. But we do begin with the relationship between billionaire Elon Musk, the world's richest man, and President Trump devolving into a very public feud yesterday. NBC News senior White House correspondent Garrett Hake has all the details.
- [04:33]
Jon Meacham
The stunning public breakup.
- [04:34]
Donald Trump
Elon and I had a great relationship. I don't know if we're well anymore.
- [04:40]
Jon Meacham
I was surprised just days after that lavish Oval Office sendoff.
- [04:44]
Donald Trump
He's done a fantastic job.
- [04:45]
Joe Scarborough
I expect to remain a friend and an advisor.
- [04:49]
Jon Meacham
President Trump and his once top ally, Elon Musk, now in a nasty public feud.
- [04:54]
Donald Trump
I'm very disappointed in Elon. I've helped Elon a lot.
- [04:57]
Jon Meacham
All starting when the president was asked about the former Doge Leaders criticism of his so called big beautiful bill which extends the Trump 2017 tax cuts and eliminates taxes on tips and overtime. Musk slamming it, saying it spends too much.
- [05:12]
Donald Trump
Elon knew the inner workings of this bill better than almost anybody sitting here.
- [05:16]
Jon Meacham
The President, who recently showed off his Tesla at the White House, saying Musk's opposition began because the bill eliminates electric vehicle tax credits, which hurts Musk's business.
- [05:26]
Donald Trump
He had no problem with it. All of a sudden he had a problem and he only developed the problem when he found out that we're going to have to cut the EV mandate.
- [05:33]
Jon Meacham
Musk responding in real time on X. False. This bill was never shown to me even once. Moments later writing, whatever, keep the EV solar incentive cuts in the bill, but ditch the mountain of disgusting pork. I press Trump about Musk's criticism and this is the guy you put in charge of cutting spending. Should people not take him seriously about spending now? Are you saying this is all sour grapes?
- [05:54]
Joe Scarborough
No, no.
- [05:54]
Donald Trump
He worked hard and he did a good job. And I'll be honest, I think he misses the place. People leave my administration and they love us and then at some point they miss it so badly and some of them embrace it and some of them actually become hostile. I don't know what it is. It's sort of Trump derangement syndrome.
- [06:16]
Joe Scarborough
Put the signs up, put the hat on, let's go.
- [06:20]
Jon Meacham
All of it. A sudden shift for Musk, who enthusiastically campaigned for Trump. The president suggesting he would have won in 2024 without the support of the world's richest man.
- [06:30]
Donald Trump
I think I would have won. Susie would say I would have won Pennsylvania easily anyway.
- [06:34]
Jon Meacham
Minutes later, Musk firing back, writing, without me, Trump would have lost the election. Such ingratitude, the war of words escalating even further. President Trump posting, elon was wearing thin. I asked him to leave. I took away his EV mandate and he just went crazy. And that the easiest way to save money in our budget, billions and billions of dollars, is to terminate Elon's governmental subsidies and contracts. Musk then writing, time to drop the really big bomb. Trump is in the Epstein files. That is the real reason they've not been made public. Musk offered no evidence to back up his accusation. And nothing made public has implicated Trump, who's denied any involvement in Epstein's criminal behavior. The White House responding to Musk's claim, saying, it's a, quote, unfortunate episode from Elon Musk. The president posting, I don't mind Elon turning against me, but he should have done so Months ago. This is one of the greatest bills ever presented to Congress. Meanwhile, as all of this unfolded, Tesla stock plummeted, losing over 14% of its value.
- [07:35]
Joe Scarborough
Garrett Hake reporting for us there. So, Jonathan Lemire, as you know, yesterday, this was so explosive, this back and forth. It actually made a lot of people put X back onto their phones if they had deleted it some many months ago. But it's worth remembering it was one week ago today, last Friday, they had that very nice send off from the Oval Office. Thank you for your service. Elon Musk, you did a great job, you and your Doge team. Now you get back and run your businesses, smiled for the cameras and now six days later, this thing just kept escalating from the policy, talking about the big beautiful bill and Elon Musk criticism of it to the deeply, deeply personal.
- [08:13]
Ali Vitale
Yeah, for one day. Anyway, Elon made Twitter great again. This was both inevitable, but also stunning. The speed of this was so stunning, just how quickly, quickly it escalated yesterday. Now, these are two billionaires with giant egos who to this point sort of surprised a lot of observers by how well they did get along. Musk was Trump's biggest campaign donor then. Randosh was even borderline co president there for a while, even though his influence certainly had waned in recent weeks. And this clash was several weeks in the making. Yes, it's about the bill to a degree. It's about the EV mandate, It's about Trump snubbing Musk's pick to run NASA. There are some real personality conflicts there that emerged at the end. Musk and a lot of Trump's senior staff didn't get along. Trump as well as some of Trump's cabinet members didn't get along. And then just the stunning speed, how quickly this devolved. Yesterday, Trump's comments there in the Oval disappointed, but didn't take a blowtorch to Musk either. Musk then really ramped things up on social media. And look, you can hurl insults at Donald Trump. One thing you can't do, as one of his advisors put to me yesterday, you can't claim credit for his victories. And that was the thing that really angered Trump yesterday. And then of course, as noted, Musk only went further, suggesting at one point agreeing with a tweet that suggested that Trump be impeached and then that Jeffrey Epstein claim as well. So there was some efforts late last night to cool things off. White House officials saying they're trying to broker a call with Musk later today. Musk tweeted that he would like to smooth things over with Trump. We'll see. But Ali Vitale, the host of Way Too early, joins us now. I mean, this is, this is sight seismic. It is Musk. We've never seen one person have the influence that Musk did, both as a campaign donor and then as a member of Trump's administration here. And the clout his fortune gave Trump that sort of in that threat, don't challenge me. I have this guy's deep pockets supporting me in the background. And yet here it goes. It blows up. And doesn't just blow up, it blows up spectacularly.
- [10:21]
Jonathan Lemire
But that's always how it was going to go, right? I mean, I know you and I talked to people close to the administration on Capitol Hill, and many of them were forecasting that this was not a question of if the breakup would happen, it was when. And of course, now we see that we're at that moment. The idea that it's so public that it's literally playing out on their dueling social media platforms. It almost feels like if you wrote it, it would be too cute. But that's exactly how it's going. And I think one person asked me yesterday as I was texting my sources, what could get worse than this? And I think we know that there's always a deeper floor here. I don't think that we've hit rock bottom, though. The allegations that are being cast about are absolutely jaw dropping and stunning. But at the same time, there's also an open question legislatively here of what does this mean for a massive bill that is going to have big impacts on Americans. We're talking about health care, we're talking about food assistance programs. And so as much as this is entertaining, and it very much is, and the Internet understood the assignment yesterday, they came up in the clutch. At the same time, I think it's also important to remember a lot of people's lives are at stake here from a government policy perspective. And these are guys that are quarreling over electric vehicle mandates. And yeah, look, I mean, I finally get a chance to do what you guys always do. I hate my ex. I mean, this is the headline of the New York Post. I mean, you're holding a paper that has just a similar one. This is entertainment. But these are two very powerful people who can have big impacts on people's lives. And I think it's important we keep that focus there, too.
- [11:46]
Joe Scarborough
And John Elon Musk did come back to the bill. He went after Mike Johnson again yesterday, Speaker Johnson, saying, this is so irresponsible where's the Mike Johnson of 2023 who was a fiscal hawk? Speaker Johnson responded in his own way, saying, I'm still a fiscal hawk. I think the question on a lot of people's mind is you both just said, I don't think anyone was surprised that this relationship blew up. This did seem inevitable at some point. But why so fast? Because it felt like it was about much more than an EV mandate or a policy element of this big, beautiful bill that has Elon Musk worried about his business interests. Perhaps this, this did feel deeply personal. So the question a lot of people are asking is why did Elon Musk suddenly go to 11 so quickly?
- [12:30]
Ali Vitale
Yeah, well, there are a few things at play here, and let's start with the obvious, which is money. Not only are there things in this bill like the EV mandate that Musk wanted, he's also been opposed to a lot of the tariffs that President Trump has put forth because that would hurt his businesses. And also, let's just think about, as someone close to Musk said yesterday to me, think about the money that Musk has put into this, not just the couple hundred million in the campaign, but as he looks at it, the money he's lost since going into the Trump administration because Tesla and other businesses have taken such a hit. And that's why one of his responses yesterday, you know, certainly a petulant, angry one, was to maybe suggest he would scrap the Space Dragon rocket ship, that working with NASA, which would potentially really cripple the American space program, he seemed to back off that late last night. But first of all, there's the money part of this, but there's also is the personality side Musk wanted. Musk had a few of his top lieutenants, including the administrator for NASA, get rejected from top administration posts. There were these clashes, as I mentioned a few moments ago, with White House staff and Cabinet members. Trump and Musk surprisingly, and I say surprisingly, from senior Trump aides, they got along for the most part. Like the two men, actually, despite the egos, despite their insecurities, despite their volatile natures, they did get along. But we'll see. You know, Trump still largely stayed above the fray. He was mad at Musk, but didn't go after him personally. We'll see if that changes. Some White House aides, though, Willie, we should just note, you know, pointed to that New York Times story that came out a week or so ago back that detailed some of Musk's drug use, suggesting this was an unstable personality. You know, and Musk certainly lashed out in a significant way yesterday to the point that dismayed some of his allies. We will see where things are this morning. There is going to be a phone call to try to smooth things over. I wouldn't hold your breath. Maybe we'll get a ceasefire, but certainly this relationship is forever changed. It's not going to be the partnership that we saw to this point or.
- [14:32]
Joe Scarborough
With the two of them. Maybe it just goes right back to where it was.
- [14:35]
Ali Vitale
Yeah, maybe it was a bit the whole time.
- [14:37]
Joe Scarborough
We'll see. Let's bring in Rogers chair in the American Presidency at Vanderbilt University, historian Jon Meacham. Jon, good morning. Always great to see you thinking about the busts of Lincoln and Churchill in the Oval Office and those portraits of Washington and Lincoln and others staring down at the President United States yesterday as he answered questions about tweets posted by the richest man in the world in this very public feud. What they must have been thinking. What were you thinking as a historian, as you watched this yesterday?
- [15:08]
David Ignatius
That we're, you know, Emerson was right. There is properly no history, only biography. You know, personalities here matter enormously. And President Trump has always been an exaggerated example of how one person's character, one person's vices and the view of his admirers, his virtues, affect all of us. And there is, as Ali was just saying, this is an enormously important piece of legislation. It could set certainly the next three years, perhaps beyond that, which is an enormous amount of time when you're talking about the power and scope of what the federal government does in people's lives. And the nature of that now is somewhat in the hands, somewhat in play because of this kind of billionaires, you know, non Brokeback Mountain moment. And so what we're, I think what we're looking at is legislatively a really, really interesting political question, which is, will Republican members of Congress find some courage in this, find some margin to oppose the president, to keep pushing on certain elements because they now have someone else to be afraid of. Right. So ordinarily, they're just afraid of the president and his remarkable connection to the MAGA base. But now you're looking at a situation where you have someone who has the capacity to put a lot of money behind a primary opponent. And there is no more fearsome verb in Washington than to be primaried. You know, it's hard to conjugate that verb, but that is the central term. And if Elon Musk wants to roll that threat out, he can do it. He's shown he can do it. And so you're looking at a moment here at a particularly crisis hour for this big bill where there's a countervailing force not coming from the left, but coming from the Republic of Mosque.
- [17:26]
Joe Scarborough
Well, it's been interesting to watch that exact question even before this really blew up yesterday. Over the last couple of days, John, of, you know, as the criticism from Elon Musk came in for this so called big beautiful bill, where would Speaker Johnson side? Where were these members of Congress, some of whom, by the way, had their reelection campaigns bankrolled by Elon Musk? Where would they come down on this? It seems, and Ali can talk about this too, for the most part, they're staying with Donald Trump, that the forces of MAGA are stronger than, I guess, the money. And the primary threat that Elon Musk can bring. He's a relative newcomer to the MAGA movement. You know, just last year kind of latching onto this is because he thought Donald Trump was gonna become president. He was right about that. So what's your suspicion about where Republicans, Speaker Jon has been pushing back hard against Elon Musk, which way they fall? They stay with the president or do they follow Elon Musk?
- [18:17]
David Ignatius
Well, I'm almost always wrong about the future. Not that, you know, not to be wrong about the past, but I mean, I get some of that wrong too. My suspicion is that MAGA prevails over money in this particular battle. But for the first time, there have been two moments, right, where the Republicans who might not actually believe in what President Trump wants to do. There have been two factors that I think have given them some pause. Maybe three, two. One would be falling poll numbers, right? The president's approval rating not being as high as it might room. Then there's now there's Musk and then there's simply the calendar, which is three and a half years, is three and a half years. And these folks, their calendar runs on their election cycle. The best way to tell where anyone is going to be, and this is not cynical, it's simply, as Abraham Lincoln said, all people act on incentive. The best way to know where someone's going to land on this bill or anything else President Trump wants to do is show us your primary electorate, show us the demography of your state, show us how the funding of your opponents might be, and we can probably, 9 times out of 10, 9.8 times out of 10, find out where you're going to land because of that.
- [19:53]
Jonathan Lemire
I like the dichotomy that you set up there, this idea of Musk over money or MAGA over money. I think that might be the way Republicans on Capitol Hill are thinking about it. But. But I think, by and large, yesterday, what we saw when they were asked about it was a lot of attempts to put some distance there. I don't know that they're ready to pick sides in the divorce. And quite frankly, I wouldn't want to if I were them. Because you do still have three and a half years of the Trump presidency. You're watching all of these fissures within the MAGA movement, whether it's Steve Bannon now teeing off against Elon Musk. We know that they had had disagreements on things like H1B visas and other parts of the immigration program that the Trump administration was putting together. Obviously, electric vehicles and government subsidies towards that are another stick point that are coming to a real head right here. So there's that. But then on the money piece of it, I think you're right. And I also don't know how to conjugate the primary. But the idea that you're gonna get primaried has always been. And Lemire, you said this, the idea that Musk always had that in his back pocket, that he was the enforcer to the Trump agenda on Capitol Hill, that was always the extra oomph and I think the extra insulation that Musk always had in the president's orbit is whether he was in government or not, he was always the guy that would put some money towards their side, keep people in line legislatively. That's a big on Capitol Hill. Maybe not to people like Thomas Massie, who sort of have their own permission structure in their own states, but to other members, the threat of a primary challenge really did help them bend towards the President's will. And so now without that enforcement mechanism, and even without it, and even with it potentially working against them, that's going to be an interesting ecosystem for Republicans to play in. And it's why you're watching them kind of try to shy away from taking sides.
- [21:32]
Ali Vitale
Yeah, Mike Johnson literally ran away from cameras yesterday. Others did as well.
- [21:35]
Jonathan Lemire
Very cute baby.
- [21:36]
Ali Vitale
He did there was sort of as a shield, I think, you know, and Musk was certainly really very scattershot on Twitter yesterday, to say the least. But one thing he did say was that he would fund challenges to anyone who votes for this bill, like suggesting he would set up his own political party. You know, we'll see about the follow through there. But it's a reminder about the sort of weapon that he has. And to Ali's point, though, there is a schism. I mean, Steve Bannon went so far as to say not only should the US Scuttle all government contracts with Musk, an idea that I will say Trump also floated. Bannon went so far as say Musk should be deported. I'm not sure that's gonna happen, but there is certainly here a potential for a real fracture that's gonna reshape the Republican Party or, or not. We'll be onto something else tomorrow. I mean, that's just how fast yesterday went. I think we're all gonna be glued to our phones again today for latest developments.
- [22:30]
Joe Scarborough
You're right. It's equally possible they'll hold a rally together tonight somewhere in the country. We shall see. All right, Jon Meacham, stay with us. Still ahead, MORNING Joe, the latest from Ukraine as Russia now targets Kyiv with a deadly missile and drone attack overnight, less than a week after that audacious drone attack by the Ukrainians. Plus, we're learning President Trump and Chinese leader Xi Jinping have agreed to meet in person. We'll talk about what this could mean for the escalating trade tensions between Washington and Beijing. And a reminder, the Morning Joe podcast is available every weekday featuring our full conversations and analysis. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. MORNING Joe, back in just 90 seconds.
- [23:31]
Garrett Hake
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- [24:02]
Mika Brzezinski
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Jonathan Lemire
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Mika Brzezinski
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- [24:34]
Ali Vitale
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- [24:39]
Mika Brzezinski
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- [25:07]
Joe Scarborough
Would you consider to put more sanctions on Russia? Because this discussion is going on now for weeks and months and you tweeted about it once, but then nothing happens.
- [25:16]
Donald Trump
Yeah. When I see, when I see the moment when we're not going to make a deal when this thing won't stop at that moment. Yeah, it's in my brain, the deadline. When I see the moment where it's not going to stop and I'm sure you're going to do the same thing will be very, very, very tough. And it could be on both countries. To be honest. You know, it takes two to tango. But there'll be. We're going to be very tough. Whether it's Russia or anybody else, we're going to be very tough.
- [25:46]
Joe Scarborough
President Trump speaking from the Oval Office yesterday, suggesting the United States could impose sanctions on Russia, but also on Ukraine unless a peace deal is reached between those two countries. Meanwhile, four people were killed and 20 others were injured by a series of Russian missiles and drone strikes on the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv overnight. The City's mayor reports 16 of the injured people were taken to the hospital for treatment. Reuters reports in addition to the strikes on Kyiv, one of which slammed into an apartment building, Russia launched attacks in the western part of the country as well. According to local officials, these assaults follow President Trump's phone call with Vladimir Putin just on Wednesday in which Putin claimed Moscow would have to respond to Ukraine's recent drone strikes that targeted Russian military airfields. Let's bring in columnist and associate editor for the Washington Post, David Ignatius. David, good morning. Your latest column for the Washington Post titled Ukraine's Dirty War is Just Getting Started. In it, David writes this. With Trump stepping back as a peacemaker, at least for now, Ukraine will depend more than ever on its intelligence services, which have shown an ability to strike Russian forces deep inside their home country and around the world. The front line inside Ukraine will remain a hellscape of drones and artillery. But covert operations could expand into a dirty war beyond the front with more targeted killings, sabotage and strikes on countries that supply arms to Ukraine and Russia, respectively. So, David, obviously that drone attack of less than a week ago was just stunning in its sophistication and its planning of 18 months or so. When they shipped them in on trucks, the top of the trucks opened and the drones attacked more than 40 aircraft on military installations across Russia. But what you're suggesting here is that without Donald Trump putting a line in the sand for Vladimir Putin, it leaves the war open ended. He said just the other day these two countries might have to fight for a while, that this war will change and take on a new shape in these covert operations.
- [27:47]
Lisa Rubin
So, Willie, the attack Sunday on the airfields across the breadth of Russia was just stunning. I think the whole world saw Ukraine's skill in mounting these covert actions using drones, and people hoped that it might be a knockout punch against Vladimir Putin and Russia. But it's clear now that it really is a prelude to a new phase of this war. And I do worry that this next phase could be even bloodier than what we've seen. As President Trump says again and again, the killing field in Iran has led to a kind of violence we haven't seen since the Second World War. He was very graphic yesterday in describing what satellite intelligence shows of the bodies, what it looks like when you have have close up images, as he does as president, of what the battlefield carnage looks like. President Trump, to me, sadly, has now stepped back from this conflict. There was a lot of hope when he became president that he would be the peacemaker, he'd find a way to put enough pressure on Russia to get Russia and Ukraine to terms that might lead to a stable settlement. We saw this week with the meeting between the two negotiators in Istanbul that they're so far apart that a negotiated settlement isn't possible. And Trump is now characterizing this as a fight between kids on a playground, in effect, and you got to let them keep fighting. That's bad news for Ukraine because as the president stands back, we've been the crucial ally for Ukraine. It was very interesting to see the German chancellor sitting next to Trump, trying to make Trump understand the importance of working together to support Ukraine. I didn't see that he was making any real progress. So it's now up to Europe to see if it can provide Ukraine with the weapons, the intelligence, the support it will need to hold its ground against what's going to be an increasing Russian assault.
- [29:51]
Ali Vitale
And let's take a look at what David just said moment yesterday from the Oval Office. Trump talk, talking about children on the playground.
- [29:59]
Donald Trump
Sometimes, and this is me speaking, maybe in a negative sense, but sometimes you see two young children fighting like crazy. They hate each other and they're fighting in a park and you try and pull them apart. They don't want to be pulled. Sometimes you're better off letting Them fight for a while and then pulling them apart. And I gave that analogy to Putin yesterday. I said, president, maybe you're going to have to keep fighting and suffering a lot because both sides are suffering before you pull them apart, before they're able to be pulled apart.
- [30:35]
Ali Vitale
I think a lot of Ukrainians who have lost loved ones in the war will object to that analogy, David. Certainly I reported yesterday as well on this, that in the White House, as audacious as that Ukrainian drone strike was, they were. Are unhappy with it because in Trump's mind, it simply prolongs the war. That, yes, now he feels Russia's gonna have to retaliate. They'll be. And then Ukraine will hit back and there'll just be this domino effect of escalation. And we heard that from him yesterday as well, when he did yet again suggest, well, I'm gonna step away from this. So if that's. And more than that, even in his call with Putin, wanna change the subject, like, well, I wanna. Because we know he wants to have better relations with Russia, whether it's a trade deal or getting Putin's help with Iran. He seems to be wanting off ramps where he's trying to wish this conflict away. It's not going to happen. Do you see? If the US doesn't step in, this could be years to go. No.
- [31:33]
Lisa Rubin
So I fear that there are years ahead. I just want to give your viewers a sense. Trump talks about this as two kids on a playground. I have an app on my phone for when I'm in Ukraine. Every air raid gets a notice. Here's what I hear on my phone. That's the sound of air raid sirens. And if you're in Ukraine, you hear that sound multiple times every night as missiles and drones fly over the city and increasingly go after residential areas. This is not a fight on a playground. It's a fight between a country that was invaded without provocation by Russia, a country with a much larger army, much greater resources, and they're really going to get pounded. And I hope that people have a sense of just how much they stand to lose and how important it is for the United States and Europe to stand with them.
- [32:30]
Joe Scarborough
Yeah. The attack last night we just reported on was on an apartment building, a residential apartment building in Kyiv, not on a military installation. The war between Ukraine and Russia, just one of the topics President Trump discussed with German Chancellor Friedman. Frederick Mertz yesterday at the White House, with Mertz urging Trump to increase pressure on Russia. The German chancellor also invoked D Day as an example of another Time the United States helped a European ground war leading to this exchange. And may I remind you that we are having June 6 tomorrow. This is D Day anniversary, when the Americans once ended the war in Europe.
- [33:10]
David Ignatius
And I think this is in your.
- [33:12]
Ali Vitale
Hand in specific, in ours.
- [33:14]
Donald Trump
That was not a pleasant day for you.
- [33:16]
Ali Vitale
No, that was not a pleasant.
- [33:18]
Joe Scarborough
Well, in the long run, Mr. President.
- [33:20]
Ali Vitale
This was the liberation of my country from Nazi dictatorships.
- [33:25]
Donald Trump
That's true.
- [33:26]
Joe Scarborough
And we know what we owe you.
- [33:27]
Ali Vitale
But this is the reason why I'm.
- [33:29]
David Ignatius
Saying that America is again in a.
- [33:32]
Joe Scarborough
Very strong position to do something on this war and ending this war. So let's talk about what we can do jointly. Jon Meacham, Today is the 81st anniversary of D Day. Americans and British and Canadian, Australian troops were on the beaches right now, 81 years ago, the beginning, the liberation of Europe from the Nazis. And you heard the German Chancellor Yesterday effectively saying, Mr. President, you've missed my point entirely with your one liner there. I'm trying to explain to you why I'm. American influence is so critical today as it was 81 years ago on D Day.
- [34:09]
David Ignatius
This is the hinge of the 20th century. It's in many ways the moment, this operation that created the. A world that could be a post war world. I think it is a remarkable thing. I think David can shed more light on this than I can. But that's a remarkable moment when the head of government, government of the former combatant nation Germany, would talk about that in terms of what we owe you for liberating us from Nazi dictatorship. That's a moment where you really should step back just for a second. And it's beyond musk and it's beyond tweets, and it's beyond the things that understandably consume us every day. The images you're showing there are of ordinary Americans who, under Franklin Roosevelt, projected force across the Atlantic, across the Pacific as well, to stand against autocracy, to stand against totalitarianism in a way that in an era not wholly unlike our own, it's important to remember, as Winston Churchill is alleged to have remarked, that you can always count on the Americans to do the right thing once we've exhausted every other possibility. And The World War II is arguably our greatest historical hour. Right? It's America using its industrial might, using its moral might, sending its sons to foreign shores to stand up for the principles that were embodied in the Declaration of Independence and in the Atlantic Charter. It's a marvelous story, but let's remember that we got into World War II at the last possible moment. It was after Pearl Harbor. We were attacked in the Pacific. And then Franklin Roosevelt didn't send up a declaration of war until Hitler had declared war on us later that week in 1941. And so politics, history, it seems black and white. It seems simple, simpler. Anyway, it's not. The men who began to turn the tide of the war to liberate Europe in these hours 81 years ago were doing something that makes our lives possible. And I think that example should not. It's so overwhelming that it's almost as if it belongs to a different world. But the reason I mentioned the complicated politics of the era is because they were human, too. They almost got it wrong, and then they got it right. And that gives us, I think, hope.
- [37:09]
Lisa Rubin
So John is right. D Day, which we celebrate today, is a day on which the history of the modern world turns out. And I thought it was very moving to have a German sitting next to President Trump yesterday. I'm not sure Trump fully absorbed what he was saying. You came to rescue us, didn't rescue Germany, but to rescue the values of Europe and to allow the creation of a modern Europe. I've sat with Joe and others from Morning Joe at that graveyard in Normandy where the crosses grave markers of all those thousands of Americans who died on D Day are so visible. And you can look at the cliff that they had to climb up to to get to the German positions, that the heroism of the individual American, British and other soldiers who on that day liberated Europe. And I think if there's anything that that the German chancellor and other Europeans are trying to say today to President Trump and Americans is don't forget this heritage. You have been the people who came to the rescue when Europe was facing enormous danger from adversaries like Hitler. And Europeans would say today, like Vladimir Putin. So it's a day to remember what America has done in the past, how grateful people are still for the sacrifices we made.
- [38:43]
David Ignatius
Yeah.
- [38:44]
Joe Scarborough
And the chancellor blowing through President Trump's one liner there to say no. No. What I'm saying is you have the power, just like you did on June 6, 1944, to rally to help a European nation. You are still the United States of America, and Europe needs you. The Washington Post. David Ignatian, David Ignatius, historian Jon Meacham. So great to have you both here, especially on this 81st anniversary of D Day. Thanks, guys. Coming up, senators have started the president process of considering President Trump's judicial nominees. MSNBC legal correspondent Lisa Rubin joins us with a look at some of the potential judges as well as the latest on the Trump administration's wrongful deportation of a Guatemalan man to Mexico. Morning Joe's coming right back.
- [39:37]
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- [41:07]
Jonathan Lemire
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- [41:13]
Joe Scarborough
Live picture of Reagan National Airport, Washington, 6:43 in the morning. Earlier this week, the Senate Judiciary Committee held its first judicial nominations hearing of President Trump's second term with testimony from his initial batch of potential judges. Trump's picks fit into a continuation of his first term where he applied a conservative slant across the federal branch, as you'd expect. But the judges also are facing questions on their qualifications. In other legal news, the Trump administration returned a Guatemalan man wrongly deported to Mexico, the first instance of compliance with a judge's order to facilitate the return of a migrant. Let's bring in MSNBC legal correspondent and former litigator Lisa Rubin. Lisa, good morning. A lot to talk to you about, including the travel ban. So let's go back to the beginning of what I mentioned There. And these potential judges, what do you make of the collection of nominees that have been put forward in terms of their ideology, but also their qualification?
- [42:11]
Mika Brzezinski
So, Willie, I would tell you that by some measures, most of these people are qualified in the sense that they have the credentials that we would expect judges to have. They have Supreme Court clerkships or they've graduated first in their class from law schools, where. Where they fall short is according to the traditional measure of what it means to be qualified. The American Bar association, for example, typically requires 12 years of legal experience and actual lawyering experience before they consider somebody qualified. Trump's first appeals court nominee who had her hearing the other day. Whitney Hermendorfer, a nominee to the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals, has been out of law school for just 10 years. She spent four of those years in judicial clerkship. So her substantive lawyering experience only spans six years. There were definitely some senators that aired concerns about what they called the brevity of her legal experience necessary to sit in that chair for a lifetime.
- [43:04]
Ali Vitale
So, Lisa, let's turn to President Trump's new plans for his travel ban. He put it out the other day. It's gonna start Monday. He's citing the attack in Boulder, Colorado. There's an Egyptian national, we should note Egypt, not one of the countries correct mentioned here, but it's total ban for 12 countries and partially restricting travel from seven others. The travel ban in the first term was overturned in the courts. What do you see here? Does he have more legal standing?
- [43:30]
Mika Brzezinski
I think they've done a better job of trying to justify the travel ban. So, for example, the White House put out a fact sheet, Jonathan, that says here are the stats on all of these countries and their visa overstay rate. That's a good way to justify an order like this. On the other hand, the rhetoric that has accompanied the order. You mentioned, for example, that he cited the Boulder, Colorado attack, Egypt, not on the list. But also there were statements about radical Muslim extremists. If you're trying to show that racial animus or ethnic animus is not motivating this travel ban, that's a funny way of doing it. So expect courts to look at whether or not there's sufficient, but also whether or not that support is pretextual. It's kind of reminiscent of some of the citizenship question litigation that we saw in the first Trump term, where there was sort of an effort to paper over why they were asking the question, even though there was also a contemporaneous record showing why they were really asking the question.
- [44:29]
Jonathan Lemire
So the travel ban revival here an example of the way that the administration is trying to stem the flow of people coming into this country. But there's also been much legal action around the deportations that they've done. We talked a little bit at the beginning of this segment about how they did return a Guatemalan man who was wrongfully deported. And yet we've seen this larger question of to comply or not to comply. This is seemingly the first instance where they are complying with court orders saying, you wrongfully deported this person. You didn't give them due process. What does this mean? That they're doing it in one instance but not, for example, for Kilmara Garcia or others we've done talked about.
- [45:03]
Mika Brzezinski
So there are three existing court orders that would ask the administration or direct the administration, I should say, to facilitate the return of migrants. This is one of them. But this guy Ali, I would submit to you, is differently situated than both Kilmar Abrego Garcia and the man known as Cristian in that he is a Guatemalan national. He was first sent to Mexico, and Mexico sent him on to Guatemala where he was in hiding. Like Kilmar Abrego Garcia, he had an order that said he couldn't be sent back to Guatemala, his home country, because he feared persecution there. The issue here was also that in his initial detention proceedings, he said, I don't want to be sent to Mexico either. I was raped and held for ransom there. And the government contested that that ever happened. Ultimately, though, the evidence was strong that it did, and they relented on the eve of a particular deposition. So one of the things I think you see throughout these cases is I won't call it abject lying yet because I don't think we have enough evidence to show that. But definitely a failure of veracity or maybe just some carelessness that when you're playing with people's lives here and subjecting them to true danger, as in the case of this particular gentleman, can't be ignored.
- [46:14]
Joe Scarborough
Yeah, betting in due process would be helpful, wouldn't it? MSNBC legal correspondent Lisa Rubin covered a lot of ground for us as always this morning. Lisa, thank you. You can check out Lisa's show. Can they do that on MSNBC's YouTube channel? Still ahead this morning, a conversation on working class voters in America. They've shifted more and more toward Republicans. Talk about what Democrats might be able to do to win them back. Also ahead, Aaron Rodgers finally makes a decision about the future of his NFL career. I'll tell you where he's headed next on Morning Joe. A hazy morning in Western PA. Live picture of Pittsburgh 6:53 in the morning and that is where Aaron Rodgers is headed. The future hall of Famer finally has made a decision on his future. He is headed to the Pittsburgh Steelers on a one year deal ending months of speculation about where or if the 41 year old would play this season. Rodgers is expected to be on the field when minicamp starts on Tuesday. If he starts the season under center, he'll be the fifth different Week 1 quarterback in five seasons for the Steelers. So Jonathan Lemaire, this was widely expected. Reported more than a month ago that he was likely headed there. The Steelers frankly don't have a starting quarterback they needed. Aaron Rodgers, unclear what he gives you at 41 years old. He's got that Achilles injury a couple years ago he's coming off of. But the good news? The jets didn't have this luxury. It sounds like he actually will be going to the minicamp and not be on an Ayahuasca retreat.
- [47:52]
Ali Vitale
That is a step in the right direction I suppose. But Willie, this has been met with pretty mixed reviews I think from Steeler fans. Rodgers brings with him a lot of off the field baggage and also he just wasn't very good last year. Now the Steelers are in a win now mode. I get it. They were sort of boxed in. They didn't have any other options at quarterback. They play in a really tough division. But Rodgers showed real signs of decline last year with the jets as well as being a bit of a head case. So it's worthy of rolling the dice. But I think expectations should be modest. 41 year old quarterbacks, with the exception of Tom Brady, don't tend to perform like all stars like they used to be.
- [48:31]
Joe Scarborough
By the way. Perhaps a coincidence. Perhaps not. Week 1 Steelers at the New York jets jets in New York City out at the Meadowlands in Jersey. So we got a big series coming up this week. Starts tonight. John yeah. Red Sox. Yankees. Red Sox. Yankees three game set. The Yankees are up five and a half games in the division. Nine and a half on the Red Sox. You know we're 61. You guys are 64 games. Still got 100 games left in this season. But how are you feeling heading in.
- [49:03]
Ali Vitale
At the beginning of the season? I circled this weekend, it was like this is going to be really fun. Red Sox come into this season with their highest expectations in a while. This will be a great series. I'll go to a couple games. Willie I will not be going to the Bronx this weekend. Now, a lot of that is because of kids, kids stuff and other plans, but it's because, I mean, the Red Sox have sadly, really disappointed to this point this season. You're right. Long way to go. But they, you know, they're four games under.500. There's four or five games out of the wild card. The division seems almost out of grasp. And to credit to your Yankees, Aaron Judge hitting nearly.400. Max Freed, one of the best pitchers in baseball. Yankees playing really well, I'd say. Exceeding expectations to this point. After losing Garrett Cole, after losing Juan Soto.
- [49:49]
Joe Scarborough
Yeah. And Freed has really stepped up as the ace of the staff. He's even better than I realized he would be. The Yankees, Yankees feel a little bit like they've muddled along this season. And then you look up and they're tied in the loss column for the best record in baseball with the Tigers and Cubs. So they're getting it done with a win yesterday. Free dealing yesterday. All right. Yanks, Red Sox this weekend and they play at Fenway next weekend. We'll be watching, of course. Coming.
- [50:13]
Garrett Hake
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