Putin, Kim Jong Un attend Xi's 'Victory Day' event in Beijing

Summary

Morning Joe – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Putin, Kim Jong Un attend Xi's 'Victory Day' event in Beijing
Date: September 3, 2025
Hosts: Joe Scarborough, Mika Brzezinski, Willie Geist
Notable Guests/Contributors: Richard Wolffe, Mike Barnacle, Janice Mackie Frayer, Anne Applebaum, David Drucker, TJ Holmes, Jonathan Lemire

---

Overview

This lively edition of Morning Joe focuses on the global realignment of autocratic leaders as Presidents Xi Jinping (China), Vladimir Putin (Russia), and Kim Jong Un (North Korea) converge in Beijing for a massive 'Victory Day' military parade. The episode explores the escalating symbolism and substance of authoritarian collaboration, what it means for Western democracies, and how the U.S. should respond. Other major topics include RFK Jr.'s controversial tenure as HHS Secretary, political shakeups in the Senate, and fleeting moments of sports banter.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Authoritarian Summit in Beijing: Victory Day Parade

(10:21–16:09, 17:23–24:26)

• Xi Jinping's Parade:

  • Lavish display of military strength in Beijing marks the 80th anniversary of the end of World War II.
  • Attendees include Putin, Kim, and leaders from two dozen mostly autocratic countries, notably absent: the U.S.
  • Emphasis on new hypersonic missiles, drones, and “the world’s most powerful laser."
  • Xi frames China as leading the world toward a choice “between peace or war”—while projecting military might.

  “He claimed the world is facing a choice between peace or war with Putin at his side, ironically.”
  —Mike Barnacle, [11:42]

• Symbolism of Autocratic Solidarity:

  • Janice Mackie Frayer (NBC’s Beijing correspondent) describes the spectacle’s heavy symbolism (security, press restrictions, optics of unity).
  • Kim Jong Un travels in his armored train, brings his daughter, grabs attention.
  • Putin thanks Kim for providing soldiers to the war in Ukraine, highlighting North Korea’s growing role in global conflict.

  “What we're seeing is ... the world's autocracies ... are beginning to make common cause. And the thing that they are consolidating around is their dislike of us.”
  —Anne Applebaum, [16:25]

2. The West’s Position and Response

(17:23–24:26)

• Global Power Dynamics:

  • Joe Scarborough stresses economic and military disparities; U.S. and allies collectively dwarf China, Russia, North Korea.
  • Despite relative weakness, autocracies gain strength through mutual support—no need to “save face” in front of the world, unlike the old Soviet Union.
  • Applebaum and Wolffe emphasize that Western division allows autocrats to advance; stress the importance of Western unity.

  “If we divide, united we stand. Divided we fall, both internationally ... and also domestically, the consensus about America's role in the world.”
  —Richard Wolffe, [19:23]

  “Unless we reverse that view, unless we put pressure on them, then they'll take us seriously again.”
  —Anne Applebaum, [21:35]

• Implications for Ukraine and Global Security:

  • Hosts question whether America truly wants the likes of Putin and Xi determining Ukraine’s future and the fates of Eastern/Central Europe.
  • Applebaum warns of Putin’s “limitless ambition,” citing historic precedents and the continuing threat to European security.

  “This is somebody who has limitless ambition. He will go as far as he's allowed to go.”
  —Anne Applebaum, [23:20]

  • Discussion of lagging U.S. leadership both on foreign and domestic political consensus; calls for the Senate to step up with sanctions.

---

3. RFK Jr. and the CDC Crisis

(03:56–07:02; 31:12–42:17)

• RFK Jr.’s Controversial Stance:

  • Widespread condemnation from former CDC leaders and the hosts after a Wall Street Journal op-ed by RFK Jr. asserting he’s restoring trust at the agency.
  • Hosts unambiguously critique RFK Jr. for undermining public health and vaccine confidence.
  • Senator Bill Cassidy comes under fire for supporting RFK Jr.’s HHS nomination (“He knew this was going to be a disaster” — Joe Scarborough, [04:13]).

  “You’ve got eight months of evidence that we’ve got someone in that job who’s manifestly unqualified... and dangerous.”
  —Richard Wolffe, [04:57]

• Political Cowardice:

  • Accusations that Senate Republicans, even those with medical expertise, refuse to oppose RFK Jr. due to fear of Trump and his voter base.
  • David Drucker and hosts lament erosion of trust in science, linking it to deaths from preventable diseases and the return of measles.
  • Discussion of how “everyone likes to throw around the term 'rigged'” further erodes faith in institutions.

  “Dr. Cassidy took an oath to first do no harm. Supporting RFK Jr does harm.”
  —Richard Wolffe, [38:48]

---

4. U.S. Politics: Senate Shakeups and Electoral Consequences

(07:12, 47:39–54:48)

• Senate Departures and Political Climate:

  • Senator Joni Ernst (IA) announces she won’t seek reelection—potential opening for Democrats, though Iowa is now considered a deep-red state.
  • Discussion of why senators (both parties) are opting out—heightened partisanship, threats to personal safety (Ernst allegedly received threats over a key vote).
  • Maine’s Senate race heats up, with Democratic challenger Graham Platner seeking to unseat Susan Collins.

  “She and her family were threatened and she changed her vote ... that was a pretty harrowing experience for her.”
  —Jonathan Lemire, [52:39]

• Broader Trends:

  • Scarborough reflects on wave elections and the way looming political tectonics often precede retirements: “...you know, I won probably because the guy who had been there for 16 years before me saw what was coming ... and said, I don’t want any part of that.” [54:19]

---

5. Israel/Palestine Policy and Two-State Prospects

(42:17–46:24)

• Richard Wolffe on Two-State Solution:

  • New Foreign Affairs piece assesses viability of two-state solution; Wolffe believes U.S. (especially Trump) could play a decisive role, but not under Netanyahu.
  • Points to risks of Israeli isolation, perpetual conflict if no political process is initiated soon.
  • If Palestinians see no political avenue, radicalization will only deepen.

  “Israel is becoming a pariah. I worry about that. I hate the idea that Israel is going to permanently isolate itself from the West.”
  —Richard Wolffe, [45:16]

  “True ... the idea that you can eliminate Hamas militarily is a nonsensical idea.”
  —Richard Wolffe, [45:33]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Beijing parade and autocratic optics:

  “Rich in optics, a lot of symbolism with this display of ambition as Xi Jinping seeks to stoke national pride here, but also show that China’s clout is growing.”
  —Janice Mackie Frayer, [12:48]

• On the RFK Jr. drama:

  “He's got an HHS secretary that's basically engaging in witchcraft.”
  —Joe Scarborough, [35:48]

• On congressional cowardice:

  “You see fear in that clip. You see fear of Donald Trump. You see fear of Donald Trump’s supporters.”
  —Mike Barnacle, [37:00]

• On historical perspective:

  “I've never bought it, but in tennis, it’s… it’s looking that way.”
  —Joe Scarborough (lighthearted comparison of U.S. decline in sports, [09:48])

• On generational wounds in Gaza:

  “They have established ... an entirely new generation of people who will hate Israel till the day they die.”
  —TJ Holmes, [45:16]

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• White House/Chicago Military Deployment Debate: [01:03–03:26]
• RFK Jr. at HHS and Senate oversight: [03:56–07:02; 31:12–42:17]
• US Open Tennis / American Sports Reflection: [07:40–10:07]
• China’s Victory Parade, Meeting of Autocrats: [10:21–16:09]
• Anne Applebaum on “Autocracy Inc.” and the new world order: [16:25–24:26]
• Senate Politics—Ernst, Collins, and Rising Threats: [47:39–54:48]
• Israel/Palestine, Two-State Prospects: [42:17–46:24]

---

Conclusion

This episode paints a vivid picture of authoritarian leaders banding together in a show of force against Western values and discusses the risks of U.S. division—both internationally and domestically. From the symbolic spectacle in Beijing to the real-world consequences of anti-science governance at home, Morning Joe offers detailed analysis, sharp criticism, and a call for renewed commitment to democratic alliance and reasoned leadership.

For a broader understanding, Anne Applebaum’s new paperback, “Autocracy Inc.”, is highly recommended by the hosts to connect today’s dots on the global stage.

Transcript

[Commercial Announcer]

McCormick knows unbeatable flavor starts with the right spices. It's why we created Flavour Sealed. So anytime you peel back the seal of McCormick herbs and spices, you can be confident they will pack the same amount of flavor as the day they were packed. The kind of flavor that brings out the best of your favorite recipes and keeps everyone coming back for seconds or maybe even thirds. McCormick flavor sealed for unbeatable flavor. Need to restock inventory, cover seasonal dips, or manage payroll. Ondeck's small business line of credit provides immediate access to funds up to $200,000 exactly when your business needs it. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and full control over repayment, you can tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. Apply [e-mail] and funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by Ondeck or Celtic Bank. Ondeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amount subject to lender approv.

[Joe Scarborough]

I want to be very clear on.

[Richard Wolffe]

This point and I want to speak.

[Joe Scarborough]

Directly to the press right now. We know before anything has happened here that the Trump plan is to use any excuse to deploy armed military personnel to Chicago. If someone flings a sandwich at an.

[Richard Wolffe]

ICE agent, Trump will try and go.

[Joe Scarborough]

On TV and declare an emergency in Chicago. I'm imploring everyone, if and when that happens, do not take the bait. Well, I mean, Willie, we're not really talking about subway sandwiches here. We're talking about 54 people shot over the weekend, seven people killed. And again, nobody believes that federal troops can go into Chicago legally, constitutionally, and in fact, we had a judge say after the fact that what happened in illegal was unconstitutional. That said, like, if 54 people are shot in Chicago over the weekend and seven people are killed, I think the focus needs to be on protecting those residents every bit as much as it does striking out against Donald Trump's plans for Chicago.

[Mike Barnacle]

Yeah, it's just a question of the solution. No one could possibly disagree that there's a problem in Chicago and 54 people are shot. But the president did say yesterday we're sending troops into Chicago. I didn't say when, but we're going to send troops in. It's going to be more difficult in Chicago for him because of the Constitution.

[Joe Scarborough]

Right.

[Mike Barnacle]

But I think everyone who knows Donald Trump agrees he's going to try to find a way. And what the governor and the mayor of Chicago perhaps would be wise to discuss, as Mayor Bowser of Washington has been doing, is what can we do together here? What's the part what's the solution to stop the killing in our city?

[Joe Scarborough]

What can we do together? Because, Mika, you know, we've talked to people who, when they go down in the subway and they see the National Guard there, they don't mind it. They're not sitting there going, oh, my gosh, my rights are being violated. They're like, no, we're really glad that Kathy Hochul has the National Guard down in the subway. And people who want to protest that, like Kathy Hochul doing it. They can, I can tell you, people that, like, use the subway to go to and from work and to get around the city are not enraged by that.

[Mika Brzezinski]

All right, we'll talk more about this. That, of course, was Illinois Governor J.B. pritzker urging Chicago residents to stay calm if President Trump makes good on his promise to deploy National Guard troops to the city. We'll bring you the latest on that in just a moment. Also ahead, Republican Senator Bill Cassidy of Louisiana, Louisiana, who was a crucial vote in the confirmation of RFK Jr. As HHS Secretary, now says he will conduct oversight on the country's top health officials.

[Joe Scarborough]

This is pathetic.

[Mika Brzezinski]

The question is, what does that actually mean? And seriously, seriously, this is emphatic. Where were you?

[Joe Scarborough]

And by the way, Richard, he was asked, do you regret your vote? And he was like, no, Richard Oz is here. No, I mean, you have a doctor.

[Mika Brzezinski]

How can you not regret your vote?

[Joe Scarborough]

Who knew that this guy had been like talking in quackery for decades? He knew what he was voting for. He knew that this was going to be a disaster. The hell. There were people inside the Trump administration who said, yeah, before the transition, yeah, this is the bad one. This is, yeah, this one's gonna be a problem because, you know, he's, he actually is going against generations of what doctors and scientists have said. And Bill Cassidy votes for it because he's scared, because I don't know, what's he going to do, run for governor or something? I don't know.

[Richard Wolffe]

And now he says after eight months that he's going to do his job and conduct oversight, should have done his.

[Joe Scarborough]

Job when it was time to vote.

[Richard Wolffe]

Vote. And every day, and every day since, you've got eight months of evidence that we've got someone in that job who's manifestly unqualified to have that responsibility and dangerous.

[Joe Scarborough]

Well, and is it war? And is it war with the nation's health, the health of children? And by the way, this Willie bears underlining. If you look before insanity took over, like with the COVID vaccines and anti vaccine Went from being something that hippies in San Francisco did to what politicians and state boss hogs and state legislatures across the Deep south started doing. It was states like Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansas that had the highest percentage of vaccination rates and they had absolutely no religious exceptions. And that's one of the reasons why those states in the Deep south, some of the poorest states in the nation, had the highest vaccination rates and the lowest incidences of these diseases that RFK Jr obviously thinks can just be played around with. Maybe natural immunity will thin out the herd and that'll be a better way to do it. Kill a couple of kids here, kill a couple of kids there. You know, it's probably better in the end. Measles is back is what RFK Jr thinks.

[Mike Barnacle]

Yes, measles is back in some places. As you said, a couple of children have died in large part because of the quackery that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Has led this movement against vaccines. And then he tries to have it both ways when he's getting confirmed, no, I wouldn't be against vaccines. He is. He's said it many times and now he's showing it. And he's actually got a piece in the Wall Street Journal and the op ed page saying, I'm here to restore trust in the CDC when just the opposite is happening. And you have these group of people who've worked at the CDC who committed their lives to the public health, who said, it pains us to say this, but you cannot trust the information now coming out of the CDC under this man.

[Mika Brzezinski]

All right. Plus the House Oversight Committee released a batch of Jeffrey Epstein files yesterday amid pressure to share more information about the case. We'll go through what, if anything was revealed.

[Joe Scarborough]

Nothing new was revealed.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Also dig into nothing. Republican Senator Joni Ernst of Iowa announcing she will not seek re election next year and what it could mean for the midterm.

[Joe Scarborough]

We're also going to look at Maine. Some really interesting things happening up there in the race against Susan Collins. It'll be very interesting to see if Susan Collins will continue to fight on through next year. This, this challenge looks like it's going to be something.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Also a decades long streak at the US Open will continue after American Taylor Fritz was eliminated last night. There's still hope on the women's side.

[Joe Scarborough]

Really? You won the US Open and I think the French Open in 99.

[Mike Barnacle]

Thank you for.

[Joe Scarborough]

I think you're gonna have to go back. It was inspired by my masters win in 87 the year after Nicholas, that was not Larry that was me. It's amazing what AI generated stuff can do right now. But this is really. We come from the land of Stan Smith.

[Mike Barnacle]

Yeah.

[Joe Scarborough]

Wait, is he. Is he Australia or is he American? Stan's American, right? We come from the land of Jimmy Connors. We come from the land of McEnroe. We come from Arthur Ashe. We come from the land of Arthur Ashe. The stadium's named after one of the great American tennis players of all time. Where are the men? Where have all the good men gone? Why can't we. Who sang that?

[Richard Wolffe]

Where have all the flowers? Where are you going?

[Joe Scarborough]

No, where have all the good men gone? Or something. I don't know. It's an 80s song or 90s song.

[Mike Barnacle]

Our team's working on that.

[Joe Scarborough]

I don't know. Working on that, guys. And I don't want to hear it. Going to break. Let's do Chumbawompa or something. But, yes, exactly. What happened to them, right? Yeah. What's happened to American tennis? Come on. I'm a little riled up here.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Okay.

[Joe Scarborough]

What's happened to American tennis? Willie?

[Mike Barnacle]

It's an incredible thing that Andy Roddick is the last American to have won the US Open. That was in 2003. And he. So we went from the era of Connors and McEnroe to the era of Agassi and Sampras, the Michael Chang. We had great players. And by the way, Andy Roddick was a great player. What happened is he ran into the era of Djokovic, who's still here, Federer and Nadal, and they just dominated for 20 years. So it's unbelievable. Hopefully now we can start a new era.

[Richard Wolffe]

It's the poster.

[Mike Barnacle]

Women have been great.

[Joe Scarborough]

We are in the post America.

[Richard Wolffe]

We're going to talk about it later. But tennis, basically. Tennis was the fourth run of the post American world.

[Joe Scarborough]

You know, people have been talking about for some time, Richard, the downfall of the United States. My fourth grade teacher talked about it. I've never bought it, but in tennis, it's. It's looking that way.

[Richard Wolffe]

The Europeans have won eight of the last 11 Ryder Cups. Oh, golf as well.

[Mike Barnacle]

That changes in a couple of weeks.

[Richard Wolffe]

We'll see. We'll see. We're counting on it.

[Joe Scarborough]

At Beth Page. Black Page. Yeah. Usa. I'm proud to be an American. Really? What do we got off the top?

[Mika Brzezinski]

All right.

[Mike Barnacle]

The top of the show. We're deep into the show.

[Mika Brzezinski]

That's.

[Joe Scarborough]

Why do we want to talk baseball? What do we got, nine minutes, Willie.

[Mike Barnacle]

We've got time. All right, let's Start in China. Chinese President Xi Jinping showcased his country's military force with the leaders of Russia and North Korea by his side. Fighter jets, tanks, thousands of troops marching across Tiananmen Square in Beijing to mark the 80th anniversary of the end of World War II.

[Joe Scarborough]

Really, I think he does protest too much. I see these things as a sign of weakness. I really do. Look at our military hardware. We haven't fought a war in, like, a generation, but we know how to dance down the streets. I said Trump's in Washington is a sign of weakness. If you got it, you don't have.

[Mike Barnacle]

To show enough to show it. That's right. This was one of China's most elaborate military parades ever, featuring some of the country's weaponry, hypersonic missiles and drones, all on display. The leaders of 26 countries it's attended the event, including Russian President Vladimir Putin and North Korea's Kim Jong Un. The United States had no representative there. The Washington Post notes the parade highlights Xi's desire for China to be seen as a formidable military adversary for the United States and one that is building a coalition of world leaders who can help him challenge Western global leadership. In a speech to thousands of spectators, Xi claimed the world is facing a choice between peace or war with Putin at his side, ironically.

[Joe Scarborough]

Peace or war. Now look at our weapons. And here's Vladimir Putin, right? Like launching the first invasion in Europe since Vladimir Putin launched the last. Since Vladimir Putin launched the last.

[Mika Brzezinski]

I'm saying this with a smile, but go ahead.

[Joe Scarborough]

I mean, come on.

[Mike Barnacle]

And Kim Jong Un threatened South Korea every day across his border. Xi adding, the Chinese people, quote, firmly stand on the right side of history. President Trump weighed in on the parade as it got underway, writing on Truth Social, quote, please give my warmest regards to Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong Un as you conspire against the United States of America.

[Joe Scarborough]

They're upon the same way. Does he congratulate, is he not?

[Mike Barnacle]

There's a twist. Following the event, Putin and Kim held their own meeting in which Putin thanked the North Korean leader for providing soldiers to fight in the war with Ukraine.

[Joe Scarborough]

This is straight out of Austin Powers. Except, of course, the stakes are.

[Mike Barnacle]

Stakes are a little higher. Let's go to Beijing, where we find NBC News international correspondent Janice Mackie Frere. Janice, what's it been like there today?

[Janice Mackie Frayer]

Rich in optics, a lot of symbolism with this display of ambition as Xi Jinping seeks to stoke national pride here, but also show that China's clout is growing. Some of the PLA's most advanced weapons were on display we saw new hypersonic anti ship missiles, underwater drones, what's being billed as the world's most powerful laser. The event commemorating the 80th anniversary of the end of World War II. But there is this effort here to reshape the post war narrative around China's contributions. But as you were saying, just as significant for Xi, all of the leaders who came to watch, Russia, North Korea, Iran, nearly two dozen mostly authoritarian countries. Kim Jong Un grabbing the spotlight as soon as soon as that armored train rolled into town. He brought his daughter as well, seen as a potential successor, and immediately thanked Xi for his hospitality. Vladimir Putin has been here for days after hand holding with India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi at a summit, going for a car ride, embracing Xi. All of this getting attention in Washington, as you mentioned, President Trump posting to Truth Social just as the parade was getting underway, perhaps imagining that image there of the leaders watching the parade unfold from the balcony above that iconic Mao portrait in Tiananmen Square. We were there among hundreds of foreign media waiting to get that image of Xi, Putin and Kim together. And right as the parade was going to start, we were informed that we weren't allowed to film it. We could certainly take pictures of all of the military hardware that was parade in front of us on Chang' An Avenue, but we could not turn the cameras in the direction of Xi Jinping and those leaders on the balcony. And that was one small example of the security precautions and restrictions that were being rolled out for this event. Roads were closed. There was a six square mile area around the square that had been in total lockdown for the past couple of days. Entire neighborhoods where people, if they have a window that happens to look out onto the parade route, they're forbidden to look out the window. They have to stay at home. And they were encouraged to watch it on television. All of this for a 70 minute show by Xi Jinping, but one that obviously carried very high stakes for him.

[Joe Scarborough]

All right, NBC's Janice Mackie Frayer reporting live. Thank you from Beijing. Following following the optics there. Thank you so much. They showed Willie the world's largest laser. Today, Kim Jong Un will show sharks with lasers on their heads.

[Mike Barnacle]

It's right out of the movie.

[Joe Scarborough]

It's right out of the movie. Let's bring in right now staff writer at the Atlantic, Anne Applebaum. And Ann. You know, I occasionally have people asking me to write books. Right. I'm going to use your publisher next time because I've got to say, the little party that they threw in Beijing to launch the paperback version of Autocracy Inc. The dictators who Want to run the World. I mean, it's pretty good. That is marketing.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Hats off to you. But it also seems, given what we just reported, that we're a long way from the ambitions of an outcome in Alaska. How would you describe what we're seeing now on the world stage and what is going on with the world order?

[Anne Applebaum]

What we're seeing is what I wrote about in my book, which is that the world's autocracies, regardless of their ideologies or their geography or their backgrounds, are beginning to make common cause. And the thing that they are consolidating around is their dislike of us. And by us, I mean people who use the language of rule of law, people who talk about trans transparency, people who talk about accountability, about human rights. All of those things are dangerous for them. Those are things that appeal to their own oppositions. And so they're working harder than ever to fight back. You know, we aren't powerless. The United States is also part of a huge international coalition, if it wants to be, of countries who believe in rights and who believe in the rule of law. And we're able to fight back. But at the moment they're demonstrating their consolidation, as you say.

[Joe Scarborough]

You know, Richard, it just a couple of things. First of all, it's important for people to keep a perspective on things. The United States and the eu, along with Japan, Australia, our allies, probably have a combined GDP of around 65, $70 billion trillion dollars a year. China has 2025. Russia, a GDP smaller than the size of Texas. Stunning. I mean, forget about California. California is twice the GDP of Russia and North Korea. They can't even keep their lights turned on at night. So you look at that. You also look at our military. Our military, obviously we've seen how, how weak Russia's military is. But that said, and Anne's book, which I read when it first came out, predicted all of this. She talked about how they don't care. The Soviet Union used to care what people would think of them. They would go in the United nations and lie every day because they thought they had to to save political face. Now, as Ann said, if you run Belarus, you can oppress everybody there. Doesn't matter there. There will be no revolution that will bring down the power because they'll get help from all the other autocrats across the globe. And isn't that exactly what we're seeing playing out right now in Beijing?

[Richard Wolffe]

I think that's half the story that they are there for One another.

[Joe Scarborough]

That's the other story, part of the story.

[Richard Wolffe]

We're making it easy on them. Ann referred to the fact that we have this great network of alliances. You know, you made the point that we represent two thirds of the world economy, but what are we doing? We alienate India. So India shows up at this confab that's being we had one of the building blocks of American foreign policy, which was to bring in India, are closer to us to put pressure on China so much that we put tariffs against many of our allies. We've introduced great uncertainty into whether we're actually there for them.

[Joe Scarborough]

So are you saying if we're united together, shoulder to shoulder with our allies, and there's nothing these countries can do, but if we divide, united we stand.

[Richard Wolffe]

Divided we fall, both internationally, if we divide, and also domestically, the consensus about America's role in the world. So where are we? We talk on this show all the time about, you know, Ukraine. Why aren't we doing more there? Vladimir Putin shows up here in China and he gets all these people wrapping their arms around him, including, by the way, the Chinese who have been helping him consistently. Why aren't we doing more to pressure him in terms of putting sanctions on him or giving more help to Ukraine? Why aren't we doing more for Taiwan? So, yes, half the story is what they're doing. The other half of the story, the story we can control, is why aren't we doing more to help ourselves and to strengthen ourselves?

[Mika Brzezinski]

And why, why aren't Trump's words and intentions. President Trump's being heated by Vladimir Putin, but what was what happened in Alaska that was so destructive that we've ended up here with everything Trump said he was going to do to try and help Ukraine and end this war? It seems worse.

[Joe Scarborough]

I think the question also, Willie is now with the Senate back in. Will those Republican voices watching this, watching these autocrats, Autocracy Inc. Gather to plan, you know, to plan our destruction? Will the United States Senate finally step up and pass that sanctions bill that I think 80, 85% of the Senate supports?

[Mike Barnacle]

And what pressure can they apply to President Trump? The two weeks, he said, you have two weeks, Vladimir Putin, to reach a deal. The two weeks are up.

[Mika Brzezinski]

They're up.

[Mike Barnacle]

Where's the deal? And, Ann, if you look at what happened in Anchorage with the rolling out of the red carpet for Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump thought perhaps that flattery could win him some type of a peace deal. He even talked about a bilateral meeting that he now concedes will not happen between Zelenskyy and Putin. So what is the message as you watch these images this morning of Putin standing shoulder to shoulder with Xi and Kim Jong Un? What is the message to they hope President Trump receives?

[Anne Applebaum]

So Putin has made his choice. He's made it clear that he feels more comfortable with those group of other autocrats who are indeed helping him win the war. The North Koreans are providing soldiers and weapons. Chinese are providing components and spare parts for the Russian defense industry. Those are the people who help him win the war. And the United States, you know, in lots of ways that we don't see, you know, in terms of funding for foreign broadcasting and funding Russian language broadcasting, in terms of help for Ukrainian military, in terms of, you know, in terms of relations with our allies, looks to the Russians like it's moving back. And unless we reverse that view, unless we are able to put pressure on them, then they'll take us seriously again.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah, I just, I was watching a picture and tj, if you can put it up again, I was watching a picture of Xi and Putin walking next to each. And I'm sitting there thinking, does the United States really want these autocrats to determine the outcome of Ukraine and by determining the outcome of Ukraine and determining the outcome of Eastern Europe and possibly Central Europe? Because as you know all too well, Vladimir Putin didn't stop in Georgia, he didn't stop in Ukraine. He didn't stop in Crimea. He's not going to stop in Ukraine this time. He'll go into Poland. He'll go to Lithuania, to Latvia, to Estonia. What are the stakes at hand if we as a nation don't do anything to push back against these autocrats?

[Anne Applebaum]

So Putin has actually himself said anywhere where there has ever been a Russian soldier is potentially Russia. And I have to tell you, that's not just Eastern Europe. That includes Berlin. And if you go back to which, of course, Putin remembers, he was a Soviet official in Berlin, KGB officer in Berlin in the 1980s. Of course, if you go back even farther, there were once Russians in Paris. So this is somebody who has limitless ambition. He will go as far as he's allowed to go. His economy is weak. His army is not what it was meant to be. He's still stuck on the, you know, in the Donetsk, which he was meant to have conquered three years ago. But he retains those ambitions. And if he is allowed to win, if he's allowed to take territory, he will then launch further attacks as long as he can. As long as he's allowed to do it, he will. And the one thing that can stop him is the thing that just been discussing that Richard Haass was talking about the the alliance of democracies American, Asian, European, International. We are able to stop him if we want to.

[Joe Scarborough]

Seth Ryder for the Atlantic and Applebaum, thank you. And if you want to understand what's going on right now, that's the book. This is the book to read Autocracy Inc. It explains how all the dots connect. And again, and kudos to your publisher. That was we did not see lasers on sharks, but we saw everything for your Truman book. Short of that, amazing.

[Mika Brzezinski]

The books out in paperback now. Thank you and very much. And still ahead on Morning Joe, a federal judge rules the Trump administration violated the law when it deployed the National Guard to Los Angeles. We're going to dig into that decision and the impact this could have on other cities as the president threatens to speak, send in more troops to crack down on crime. Plus, we'll bring you the latest on the backlash Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Is facing amid the upheaval at the CDC and how he's defending his decision. And a reminder that the Morning Joe podcast is available each weekday, featuring our full conversations and analysis. You can listen wherever you get.

[Mike Barnacle]

Your step to the war.

[Joe Scarborough]

47, 47 couple kids.

[Mika Brzezinski]

We'll be right back.

[Joe Scarborough]

They didn't even know what a podcast was when we pitched it.

[Commercial Announcer]

The bottom line is this. Even as the Trump administration tries to end abortion access, slash funding and shut down health centers, Planned Parenthood continues its vital work without flinching. The assault on reproductive health is strategic and persistent. And who gets hurt the most?

[Joe Scarborough]

Women?

[Commercial Announcer]

People of color? Rural communities? Folks with low incomes. The people who already face the biggest barriers to care. If you believe everyone deserves to control their own body and future, donate [e-mail] defend McCormack knows unbeatable flavor starts with the right spices. It's why we created Flavour Sealed. So anytime you peel back the seal of McCormick herbs and spices, you can be confident they will pack the same amount of flavor as the day they were packed. The kind of flavor that brings out the best of your favorite recipes and keeps everyone coming back for seconds or maybe even thirds. McCormick flavor sealed for unbeatable flavor. Cash flow crunch on Deck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock, invent or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing and control over repayment. Get funded quickly and confidently. Apply [e-mail] funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes. Your business loan may be issued by Ondeck or Celtic. Bank on Deck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans in amount subject to lender approval.

[Joe Scarborough]

Oh, yeah. No.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Half past the hour, everybody. Let's bring in the co host of our fourth hour of Morning Joe, staff writer at the Atlantic, Jonathan Lemaire, MSNBC contributor. Mike Barnacle just. Just walked in and showed up here.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yes.

[Mika Brzezinski]

I don't know.

[Joe Scarborough]

Jackie was in the back of the chair. He said.

[Mika Brzezinski]

I think that's my senior writer for the Dispatch and a columnist for Bloomberg Opinion, David Drucker joins us as well. He was actually scheduled.

[Joe Scarborough]

He was. He was. You know, Willie, we usually talk about the east all the time, even when everybody's below.500. But this year we actually, we woke up in September and there's a, actually a playoff race going.

[Mike Barnacle]

Yankees and Sox one last night. Still both two and a half back, tied for the first spot in the wild card. And we're just talking. The Rays are quietly creeping up. They might make a run for the wild card.

[Joe Scarborough]

A great coach, Mike. Great organization. The Rays also. They always have our number, but yeah, you don't know what's going to happen.

[TJ Holmes]

One of the best managers in baseball.

[Joe Scarborough]

One of the best managers. He's great.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Okay, so back to the news.

[Joe Scarborough]

Just cutting Mike off. Why have they gotten here?

[Mika Brzezinski]

Wait, was Mike just getting started?

[TJ Holmes]

Jonathan, you jump in here.

[Joe Scarborough]

And Roman Anthony. We won a crazy game last night.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Great win for the Sox race. Garrett Crochet, a rare off day. He got shelled. But the Sox Blue elite came back. One great victory. However, we need a prayer circle here. Willie, feel free. Richard, feel free to join in. Roman Anthony, our phenom, pulled some sort of oblique injury. Going to miss time. Maybe a few weeks. Michael will find out. Today is going for an MRI.

[Joe Scarborough]

10 days.

[Mike Barnacle]

Okay, let's hope.

[Joe Scarborough]

There you go. So there you go, Mike, I asked you this question back in the 70s. I mean, we had this happen with Casas, of course, Judge, and would happen every other year. Like, guys get hurt swinging the bat too hard. Now, would a guy in 1974 swing the bat too hard, grab his side, go to the dugout and go, you know what? I need to take a couple of weeks.

[TJ Holmes]

One of the most vicious left handed swings you're ever going to see was Kyle Yastremsky.

[Joe Scarborough]

Okay, how many times did Jazz go? I swung too hard.

[TJ Holmes]

I mean, the lack of trainers and medical personnel back then, they played through Everything. They would play through everything. But Willie was right earlier when he was talking about the huge money involved.

[Mike Barnacle]

Now give that to.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Yeah, I made that point. That's okay, Willie. Stolen Valor.

[Richard Wolffe]

This is a Marxist analysis of a.

[TJ Holmes]

Lot of tension here.

[Joe Scarborough]

A lot of tension. Journalists. And we've talked about this before, Willie. I think they over. I think they over. Over Train. I really do. They, you know, guys in the off season, you know, back. You know, back in the 70s, you know, drink beer and eat pieces in the off season. I'm telling you, these guys over Train and I. I think, you know, the torque and everything when they're swinging that bat in that.

[Richard Wolffe]

You gotta. You gotta lay off a little bit the weights, Joe.

[Joe Scarborough]

I know. I'm. I'm trying.

[Mike Barnacle]

You know, we're old school.

[Joe Scarborough]

We're old school.

[Mike Barnacle]

Mickey Manel.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah, you get the. There's a picture ready? I tell you what, that team. Well, we. We have that. We have that on Len Dawson.

[Mike Barnacle]

If you can't underline enough. That's at halftime of the Super Bowl. He's ripping a lung dart during the Super Bowl.

[Joe Scarborough]

Oh, my God.

[Jonathan Lemire]

That photo always ready.

[Mike Barnacle]

Bam.

[Jonathan Lemire]

There it is.

[Joe Scarborough]

You know, Jim Cramer has his five buttons. TJ has five pictures, right? One, you know, the troops going on. On one. Well, the. One of his troops going on Omaha beach has that one ready to go all the time when we talk about. But always has that. Lynn Dawson 1. One of his five. I don't know why.

[Mike Barnacle]

Cigarette and a Fresca at halftime of the Super Bowl.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Okay, Great stuff. Now, speaking of health, it's 33 after.

[Joe Scarborough]

That's a good, nicely terrific Sega. Good job.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Is pushing back one day after a group of former CDC leaders said he is endangering every American's health.

[Joe Scarborough]

But the only reason why they said that is because he's endangering every American. Go ahead.

[Mika Brzezinski]

It would be nice. It's hard to laugh, but we got to laugh because it's ridiculous and never.

[Joe Scarborough]

Have to laugh enough.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Well, we're laughing in an opinion piece.

[Joe Scarborough]

In the Wall Street Journal titled We're Restoring public Trust to the cdc. Kennedy didn't tell the truth. I'm not reading what he said. All right, so who do we have? David Drucker. So yesterday we had Bill Cassidy come out and go, well, I don't really regret my vote, but, well, you want. You want to play it? TJ do you have that one? Along with Lynn Dawson? Already press the button.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Do you trust RFK Jr. No.

[Joe Scarborough]

People are going to try and make.

[Richard Wolffe]

This something more than it is.

[Joe Scarborough]

I'm not presupposing anyone is right or wrong. I am saying we got to get to the truth because there's serious allegations. And so that will take radical transparency to quote the president, to quote the secretary. So I'm not presupposing someone's right or wrong. I just know we got to figure.

[Janice Mackie Frayer]

It out at this point.

[Anne Applebaum]

How do you feel about your vote for rfk? Do you regret it at all?

[Joe Scarborough]

You know, I don't mean to insult, but that's really nothing to do with this.

[Mika Brzezinski]

What?

[Joe Scarborough]

It has anything to do with this. He's there.

[Mika Brzezinski]

What?

[Joe Scarborough]

And he's attacking 50, 60, 70 years of science because of your vote. Bill Cassidy, MD. So, please, David Drucker, tell us, what kind of pushback is RFK Jr going to get from Republicans in the Senate? Is he going to get any pushback at all?

[David Drucker]

Why do you guys always give me the hard questions?

[Joe Scarborough]

Listen, well, because you always answer, no, no, no, they're not actually. But I thought maybe one time, maybe one time they will.

[David Drucker]

Look, there's always, there's always the moment at which things change. But when you look at President Trump's 90 plus percent appropriate approval rating with Republican voters in most of the polling, in some Gallup polling, I just looked at, and you look at how he came back into office with this coalition that included a lot of voters that wanted RFK Jr. To do exactly what he's doing, which is exactly what he said he would do. And anybody who believed the confirmation hearings wanted to believe it and didn't pay attention to what the man believed and said he wanted to do, they do not want to get out in front of President Trump. Now, when you look at that truth social post, I guess in the last 48 hours or so or at some point in the last couple days, where he talks about wanting the drug companies to prove that his successful operation, Warp Speed, was in fact successful, which was an odd turn of phrase. I guess it's possible that the president himself is concerned about a broad backlash for something that has always been successful and never been messed with by any president, no matter how much they thought the government was rigged or the, or the economy was rigged. But I think until the president gets there, I don't expect Republicans in the US Senate, never mind the House, to do any sort of pushback about this publicly. I think what we can look for, because this will happen actually quite often, look for whether or not Republicans in Congress are privately urging the president to do Something about this. One thing I will say is that one of the reasons I think we often don't see a lot of pushback from voters except voters that you would expect to be upset about something like this is that all politicians like to throw around the term rigged. It's not just Republicans, it's Democrats. I'm not blaming anybody here, but there's this broad belief that everything's rigged and nothing's trustworthy. And so what we see from voters is they tend to trust the president when it's the president that they support and distrust. The politicians saying things, if they don't like those politicians, as opposed to looking at issues more broadly and saying, yeah, I like you, but you're wrong on this. I like you, but you're wrong on that.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah. You know, it's so interesting. Nobody trusted science, really, during COVID and I had relatives and friends who didn't trust science, didn't trust science. Then one of their friends died of COVID and then they trusted science and they went and got the vaccine. You know, and again, historically, we've talked about Operation Warp Speed, whether Donald Trump wants to take it or not. You know, it's one of the. One of the great scientific achievements over the past 50 years, saved tens of millions of lives, reopened economies across the globe. And he's, you know, he's got an HHS secretary that's basically engaging in witchcraft. And you have Bill Cassidy going, well, I don't know who. I'm not saying anybody's right. I'm not saying anybody's wrong. He's a doctor, and he knows he's lying to the camera. He's staring straight into the camera, and he knows he's lying because he knows that RFK Jr is wrong. But maybe he's scared of his voters instead of scared for the children who are going to suffer because of this guy.

[Mike Barnacle]

You see fear in that clip. You see fear of Donald Trump. You see fear of Donald Trump's supporters. Bill Cassidy is a celebrated doctor from Louisiana. He's a gastroenterologist. He's like a legend at LSU during Katrina, he set up all these mobile makeshift care facilities to help people in those times. He is a real doctor and a good doctor, and he clearly knows better, and he's still knowing everything. He knew about RFK Jr. Voted for him, and he's still trying to have it both ways as he talks about it. So, I mean, John, I mean, you've covered Donald Trump very closely here and his relationship with the Republican Party. It's obvious that they know Donald Trump likes him, doesn't want. Likes RFK Jr doesn't want to admit a mistake, likes the fact that he's a Kennedy. There's a lot that goes into this. Doesn't want to cross that sort of conspiratorial element of his own base. And so you get people like Bill Cassidy and other Republicans who clearly know better and would tell you so privately, still supporting this guy who's doing what he's doing at the cdc.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Yeah, it's the latest verse of a very tired song.

[Mike Barnacle]

It's just.

[Jonathan Lemire]

It's Republicans being terrified of Donald Trump and they won't cross him. I mean, yes, you have Senator Murkowski saying she's, quote, not pleased. That's about as far as any Republicans willing to go. We saw Cassidy and you just listed his medical credentials.

[Joe Scarborough]

Children are getting measles again.

[Mike Barnacle]

Yep.

[Joe Scarborough]

I'm not pleased. Not.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Please. Consequences that are real life, that even Trump supporters and members of the MAGA movement, at some point, they're going to see and feel these consequences.

[Jonathan Lemire]

You'd like to.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Bill Cassidy knows they're going to be.

[Joe Scarborough]

Sick, but it will be a tragedy. We don't want that to happen.

[Mika Brzezinski]

I know.

[Joe Scarborough]

Don't run from medical science. I mean, the past 50 years, 60 years, but that's what even Cassidy's doing.

[Richard Wolffe]

Dr. Cassidy took an oath to first do no harm supporting RFK Jr does.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Harm and it's not going to change. The president is enamored with Kennedy. We saw he had a speaking prime speaking slot at the Cabinet meeting last week. He loves the idea that if Kennedy supports and he loves that idea that a Kennedy works for him. He's there. And now there's some talk in that truth social post that David mentioned about, like, well, we'll talk to doctors, see what they say.

[Joe Scarborough]

Well, that Dick.

[Jonathan Lemire]

That deck is probably going to be stacked. Doctors who agree with Robert Kennedy Jr. Are the ones who are going to talk about whether the vaccine, I think.

[Joe Scarborough]

They'Re going to be hard is vaccine or not to find them. Unless maybe you talk to Rand Paul.

[TJ Holmes]

The amazing thing, I think to a lot of people, especially people who talk politics a lot, is that what you just referred to. I mean, the project that helped develop and provide the vaccine, the COVID vaccine, was Donald was under Donald Trump's administration.

[Joe Scarborough]

Administration.

[TJ Holmes]

The fact that he can't grasp.

[Joe Scarborough]

By the way, Mike, people said it was going to take a decade. It might take a decade.

[TJ Holmes]

Five months.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah, five months. Like that. Again, an incredible literal lifesaver.

[TJ Holmes]

And now we're not talking about the economy or the national defense. We're talking about people's lives. And it's not just, it's not just the potential of obstructing Covid vaccines from being distributed. It's vaccines in general.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Right.

[TJ Holmes]

That's how crazy Bobby Kennedy Jr. Is. Vaccines in general.

[Joe Scarborough]

By the way, as Ferris Bueller said, life comes at you pretty fast. So if you don't stop and look around, it's going to pass you by. While we were talking, there was a Kennedy quote from another Kennedy that I saw, liked and want to read to you. It's just been too much chaos. It's a goat rodeo. Could somebody write that down? I need my Lawson this down for me. It's a goat rodeo over there. We need to restore that confidence. And so far I don't see where Senator Kennedy has done that. Okay, Secretary Kennedy has done that. So there you have, there you have David, Secretary Kennedy getting undermined by Senator Kennedy talking about a goat rodeo. So maybe there is. Maybe hope springs eternal. Maybe the goat rodeo will be corralled by a few Republicans in the Senate.

[David Drucker]

It's very possible. Again, I'd look for those private conversations versus too much in public. I'd also remind everybody Senator Cassidy isn't the only Republican doctor on the Hill. Right? I mean, John Barrassa, the Republican whip is an orthopedic surgeon by trade. There are doctors in the Republican conference in the House, a dentist or two. I mean, there are plenty of voices that could speak up that can make this argument to the president. But just again, to get, to get back to why we're here, why is it that Donald Trump has basically rebuked one of the biggest successes of his first term and second term for that matter? Something that even if you want to argue that the vaccines weren't perfect, gave Americans and people worldwide the confidence to get out of their house and get the economy and this world back on track. It's because his own voters turned on it and he is a politician like everybody else in Congress. And who do they fear the most? They fear voters. And that is why Republicans and the President turn their back on such a major proven success.

[Joe Scarborough]

You know, if you got power, sometimes you've got to use it and sometimes you've got to stand up to your own base. This seems like it'd be a really good time to do that. Richard Oz, I'm skeptical. You say a two state solution is still possible in Israel between the Israelis and the Palestinians. Tell us what we're going, Willie. And I usually get our advance copies of Foreign affairs and we read it on the way to the dog track. But you go ahead and tell us what we're going do to be seeing tomorrow.

[Richard Wolffe]

Came back today, actually, two. Two separate issues. One, whether it's going to happen. The other is whether it's good, it's on life support. And the reason I wrote this for Foreign affairs is I actually think it's either we have to start moving that direction or it's going to disappear.

[Joe Scarborough]

Will it ever exist with Netanyahu as prime minister?

[Richard Wolffe]

No. But what's really the question now is whether the United States intervenes. Who's more popular in Israel than Benjamin Netanyahu? A guy named Donald Trump because of what he's done for Israel in his first term since the attacks on Iran. Donald Trump has enormous political capital in Israel, plus probably 40% or so of the Israeli people. You see him out in the streets protesting Gaza, protesting what's happening to democracy. So there's something to work with there.

[Joe Scarborough]

Why would Donald Trump get involved?

[Richard Wolffe]

Because Donald Trump wants to be a peacemaker, and this is a chance where he could actually make a historical difference. And what we don't know is calling for a Palestinian state anything anytime soon. What you need to do is start the process. You need to prevent, for example, Israeli expansion of settlements, which are going to kill the idea once and for all. Just the other day, new ones. Also, guess what? If Israel wants to get out of Gaza, the get out of jail ticket is going to be some political process, because that's the only way to get an Arab stabilization force in there. So something needs to be done. And if Donald Trump wants to be a historical figure in the Middle east, this is his chance to be it.

[Joe Scarborough]

Joe.

[Mike Barnacle]

But just the opposite is what Netanyahu is doing right now, getting out of Gaza. He's saying, we're going into Gaza City now. We're going to clean this all out. So what is the hope? Are you looking beyond Netanyahu, whenever that may be?

[Richard Wolffe]

Netanyahu is doing it in part because you've got an American ambassador in Israel who's saying, do it. And Donald Trump isn't saying anything. You got the head of the Israeli Defense Forces saying, don't go into Gaza City. Israel is a democratic, divided country over this. This is, in some ways, has exposed the biggest fault line in Israel. If Donald Trump weighs in, it will affect the Israeli debate, and that this is the moment to do it. And what worries me, I think we're getting close to the now or never. Point. And if you don't begin this process now, I think it kills it once and for all. And what does that mean? What is Israel going to do with 5 million Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank? What's that going to mean for a Jewish democratic state? What is that going to mean for Israel's relationship with the rest of the world? Israel is becoming a pariah. I worry about that. I hate the idea that Israel is going to permanently isolate itself from the West. That, to me is really, really dangerous. And that's what I see happening.

[TJ Holmes]

What does Israel do about the fact that they have established by their military behavior within Gaza an entirely new generation of people who will hate Israel till the day they die? They're now maybe 12, 13, 14, 15 years of age and they will hate Israel till the day they die.

[Joe Scarborough]

True.

[Richard Wolffe]

It's one of the reasons that the idea that you can eliminate Hamas militarily is a nonsensical idea. Remember the old Don Rumsfeld snowflake? How do we know when we kill terrorists and we shut off a cruise missile and we don't create more terrorists than we're killing, that is what Israel is doing in Gaza. She right. You've got to change that dynamic. The only way to do it, and we've talked about this in the show before, is to create a different political dynamic and basically say, here's a way Palestinians can get some of what they want. You open up a political door. At the same time you say there's no, you know, you've got to live in peace with Israel and so forth. You got to create an alternative to Hamas. Right now there is zero alternative to Hamas. I'm not saying this is likely to happen. All I'm saying is not just Palestinians, but Israel will be an enormous loser if history goes on and what little chance there is for a two state solution disappears.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Richard Haass, thank you very much. His new piece for Foreign affairs is available to read online right now. And coming up on Morning Joe, we'll take a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning, including another major online service that is ready to crack down on password sharing. We're back in 90 seconds, Willie.

[Joe Scarborough]

Look at that shot. TJ's up in the helicopter right now. Is that not a pilot? He is a pilot. Beautiful September shot.

[Mike Barnacle]

Icky. Track record. But he's up safely today.

[Joe Scarborough]

He did.

[Commercial Announcer]

McCormack knows unbeatable flavor starts with the right spices. It's why we created Flavour Sealed. So anytime you peel back the seal of McCormick herbs and spices, you can be confident they will pack the same amount of flavor as the day they were packed. The kind of flavor that brings out the best of your favorite recipes and keeps everyone coming back for seconds or maybe even thirds. McCormick flavor sealed for Undone Unbeatable flavor Cash Flow Crunch on Deck's Small Business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing and control over repayment. Get funded quickly and confidently. Apply [e-mail] funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes. Your business loan may be issued by Ondeck or Celtic Bank. Ondeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans in amount subject to lender approval.

[Joe Scarborough]

Saturday, October 11th from New York City, it's MSNBC Live 25. Join your favorite MSNBC hosts Rachel Maddow, Joe Scarborough, Mika Bruszinski, Nicole Wallace, Ari Melber, Alicia Menendez, Simone Sanders Townsend, Michael Steele, Chris Hayes, jen Psaki, Lawrence O', Donnell, Stephanie Rule and more. Visit msnbc.comlive25 to buy your tickets. Today.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Just about nine minutes before the top of the hour, a live look at the Capitol as the sun comes up over Washington, D.C. where Republican Senator Joni Ernst of Iowa has formally announced she will not be seeking reelection next year. Ernst has held the seat since since 2014 and won her last election by more than six points. She said in a video posted to social media that she wanted to step away to spend more time with her family. Her retirement announcement opens up a seat in a key state that could potentially lead to a competitive race as both parties battle for control of the Senate. Meanwhile, thousands of people packed an arena in Portland, Maine. None Monday for Senator Bernie Sanders and his Nationwide Fighting Oligarchy tour. Sanders publicly endorsed U.S. senate candidate Graham Platner, who is running for the Democratic nomination to challenge Republican Senator of Maine Susan Collins. Platner, a Marine veteran and oyster farmer, just launched his campaign two weeks ago. Take a look.

[Joe Scarborough]

Symbolic opposition does not reopen hospitals. Weak condemnations do not bring back Roe v. Wade. Selling out the same working class voters who've delivered mandate for change after mandate for change is not forgivable. A performative politics that enables the destruction of our way of life is disqualifying for the role of United States Senator.

[Mika Brzezinski]

Senator Susan Collins seemingly getting a pretty big challenge there and David Drucker. Joni Ernst retiring. What more do we know about that? She came in real hot Going to make him squeal. Remember that commercial? And was seen as sort of a star in the Republican Party.

[David Drucker]

She really was. And, you know, it'll be interesting to find out if there's something deeper here. There was a point early in the president's transition where she had some issues with Pete Hegseth eventually back down.

[Mika Brzezinski]

What happened with that? Do we know any backstory reporting about just, you know, her vote ultimately and how she got there?

[David Drucker]

I don't know that there's anything more to know other than she had concerns. The newly reelected president had issues with her and wanted that vote. His supporters came down hard on her and she acquiesced. Not on. Unlike Senator Cassidy with the RFK vote, RFK junior Vote. You know, I think the question is, can Democrats make this seat competitive now that it is open? I think it's going to be tough because of where Iowa is politically in the Trump era, a very red State in 2020. Joni Ernst managed to win rather easily and so did Donald Trump, even though it looked initially like Iowa was once again competitive. But I think this is a case, too, where you have a Reagan era Republican who has decided that you just have to do too much bobbing and weaving in a, in a, at a time when the party is controlled by populist forces and it may not be worth the effort.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah. You know, you know, Jonathan, there was Republic, there was reporting on the Hill after the exit vote that Joni Ernst was complaining to others that she and her family were threatened.

[Mika Brzezinski]

That's what I was getting to.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah. That she and her family were threatened and she changed her vote. I'm not saying that's why she changed her vote, but that was, that was part of the mix. Something that deeply disturbed her.

[Jonathan Lemire]

Yeah, I think that was part of why she changed her vote and part of why she doesn't want to run again. That was a, I'm told by people on the Hill that was, that was a pretty harrowing experience for her. She's concerned what other things could be dug up, what other harassment she and her family may face. And also it would be, she'd certainly be the favorite this time around. But she's also had a few major significant faux pas about the big beautiful bill and we're all going to die on the campaign.

[Richard Wolffe]

Right.

[Jonathan Lemire]

This would be a harder slog this time around as well. We should also note back to Maine, this certainly not a done deal, but there are rumors that the governor, Governor Mills, may also jump into that race. So that could be a highly competitive seat.

[Joe Scarborough]

Yeah. You know, Susan Collins is one of the few People Back in 2020, she won the state by nine and Joe Biden won the state by nine. That doesn't happen anymore. And things have certainly changed a great deal over the past six years. So I think, I think this is what usually happens when you're moving toward a wave election. Mike. I'm not going to say this is a wave election, but as you move towards 1980s or, you know, 1994, you know, one of the reasons why, you know, I won probably was because the guy who had been there for 16 years before me, he saw what was coming in 1994 and said, I don't want any part of that. We, of course, saw that in 2008. I wonder if we may see that again in 2026 where there's just some Republicans who say I'm just not going to go through this and just to get swept away.

[TJ Holmes]

In a way, I think you're right in pointing that out. And why are so many people walking away, both Republicans and Democrats walking away from running for reelection? I would submit that the intensity of national politics in this country has changed dramatically and drastically over the last eight or nine years. I have no way of referencing an earlier period of time when the intensity is such as it is now, but it is now. People either don't want to run or don't want to run for reelection.

[Mika Brzezinski]

All right, senior writer for the Dispatch, David Drucker, thank you very much. His latest speech for the Dispatch on how Democrats are confronting divisions over cultural issues is available to read online right now. And still ahead on MORNING joe, we'll take a closer look at how President Trump's mass deportation efforts are impacting families. MSNBC's Jacob Soborough spoke to a high school student who was recently sent back to Guatemala. He joins us with that interview. And as we head to break one week from Today, next Wednesday, September 10th, Joe and I will appear at the 92nd Street Y here in New York City. We're going to speak with Ed Luce of the Financial Times about the state of the world, his very timely biography of my father, former National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski. There are just a few more days left. Get tickets92y.org events you're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back.

[Commercial Announcer]

McCormick knows unbeatable flavor starts with the right spices. It's why we created flavorseal. So anytime you peel back the seal of McCormick herbs and spices, you can be confident they will pack the same amount of flavor. As the day they were packed. The kind of flavor that brings out the best of your favorite recipes and keeps everyone coming back for seconds or maybe even thirds. McCormick flavor sealed for unbeatable flavor.