Morning Joe — September 5, 2025

Episode: "RFK Jr. Faces Bipartisan Backlash at Hearing"

Hosts: Joe Scarborough, Mika Brzezinski, Willie Geist
Panel: Jonathan Lemire, Katty Kay, Ali Vitale, Jonathan Martin, Jon Meacham, Graham Wood
Key Guests: Dr. Michael Osterholm (University of Minnesota, Center for Infectious Disease Research)

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the extraordinary bipartisan criticism Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. faced during a heated Senate hearing, centering primarily on U.S. vaccine policy and turmoil at the CDC. With sharp questioning from both Republicans and Democrats, the discussion explores the wider implications for public health, the political calculations behind Kennedy’s appointment, and where the rift over COVID vaccine messaging fits in America’s political landscape. Alongside, the panel touches briefly on sports highlights, a new bipartisan movement in schools, and Senator Mitch McConnell’s warnings about American foreign and economic policy as echoes of pre-WWII isolationism grow.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Bipartisan Senate Backlash Against RFK Jr.

• Theme: Rare, pointed criticism from both parties aimed at Secretary Kennedy for his public health stances, especially regarding vaccines.
• Notable Moment: Senators repeatedly pressed Kennedy on misinformation about vaccine safety and COVID death figures.
• Quotes:
  • “I don't know that I've ever seen a bipartisan drubbing of a Cabinet member from Republicans and Democrats alike, the likes of which we saw yesterday. It was brutal from beginning to end.” – Willie Geist [05:25]
  • “Democrats calling him a charlatan and a hazard to the health of the American people, some saying he should resign.” – Mika Brzezinski [06:00]
• Critical Exchange: Kennedy evaded direct confirmation of U.S. COVID death tolls and made disputed statements about vaccine risks, leading to open accusations of confusion and dishonesty.

2. Key Hearing Exchanges and Quotes

• Examples of Exchanges:
  • RFK Jr. on COVID Death Toll:
    • “Do you accept the fact that a million Americans died from COVID?” – Senator (Jonathan Martin)
      “I don't know how many...” – Robert F. Kennedy Jr. [06:31]
  • Pushback on Vaccine Claims:
    • “You're citing data that you won't produce to the public... You're just making things up to scare people. And it's a lie.” – Willie Geist [06:50–07:01]
    • “With respect, I do not think I'm the one making...” – RFK Jr.
      “You are right now.” – Geist [07:02–07:05]
• Republican Senators' Stance: Notably, Senators Barrasso and Cassidy (both physicians) openly criticized Kennedy, framing his statements as dangerous and counterproductive to public health.

3. Political Dynamics and Fallout

• RFK Jr.’s Appointment: Analysis points to a political deal, with Kennedy’s endorsement for Trump traded for his cabinet post.
  • “I think he cut a deal with Trump during the campaign last year... It’s a straightforward horse trading proposition.” – Jonathan Martin [13:37]
• Republican Frustration:
  • Many GOP senators, after pushing through cabinet confirmations, feel undermined when those same members “are turned out on their ear” or self-sabotage.
  • Senator Barrasso’s prominent criticism is framed as especially meaningful, signaling mounting GOP dissatisfaction.
• Trump’s Calculus: Despite Kennedy’s controversies, Trump appears to still support his HHS choice—at least for now—due to the Kennedy legacy and the politics of MAGA coalition management.

4. Wider Public Health Implications

• Pandemic Preparedness Warnings:
  • Dr. Michael Osterholm warns that the U.S., by undermining global and domestic public health infrastructure, is dangerously unprepared for future pandemics.
    • “I've never seen a more dangerous time for public health… When you add that all up right now, this is a serious challenge…” – Dr. Michael Osterholm [32:57]
  • Osterholm highlights that Kennedy’s apparent rollback of mRNA vaccine support could pose severe risks if another pandemic arises.
    • “The very program... is the MRNA technology that Mr. Kennedy has just basically withdrawn all the support for.” – Osterholm [34:09]
• Vaccine Access and Messaging:
  • Confusion about who should receive vaccines increases barriers for parents and providers; Osterholm reveals Kennedy’s claims misrepresent the available scientific literature.
    • “We have 511 such studies that have been published. And he knows this, and he still elects to say these things.” – Osterholm [35:05]

5. Media and Political Reaction

• Wall Street Journal Editorial: Critiques Kennedy for “warped memory” and highlights Vice President J.D. Vance’s attempted political defense as misleading and inflammatory.
  • “Mr. Vance is trying to rally Republicans to RFK’s side by framing this dispute in a polarized, partisan framework... but it won’t win over anyone paying attention.” – Mika Brzezinski citing WSJ [18:17]
• Panel Consensus: Kennedy’s positions are seen as perilous, not just politically but substantively, with bipartisan elite and expert condemnation.

6. Historical and Cultural Context

• Vaccine Skepticism Roots:
  • Jon Meacham traces current vaccine denialism to Cold War paranoia and the John Birch Society, lamenting the breakdown of America’s “democratic covenant.”
    • “Vaccines… are like traffic rules… you give up a little bit of your liberty in order to protect the safety of the many.” – Meacham [24:16]
• Shifts in Political Identity and Vaccine Attitudes:
  • The panel traces how anti-vaccine sentiment, once associated with the left, has been weaponized by recent far-right movements for political gain—despite strong polling support for vaccines among the wider public, including much of the GOP base.
    • “80% of Americans agree that there should be vaccine mandates for children going to school… That includes 68% of Republicans and 66% of people who identify themselves as MAGA.” – Mika Brzezinski [29:21]

7. Broader News Briefs and Memorable Moments

• Bipartisan School Cell Phone Bans:

  • Jonathan Martin discusses the surprising rise of “bell-to-bell” phone bans in schools, uniting red and blue states—a rare bipartisan issue.
    • “This is an issue that has united liberal and conservative governors alike. There’s no partisan gap here that I can see.” – Jonathan Martin [36:53]
  • Mika shares her own family example, emphasizing positive changes in students' behavior.
    • “We’re sitting around the lunchroom talking to each other. Imagine that.” – Mika Brzezinski [39:19]

• Mitch McConnell’s Warning on Isolationism:

  • McConnell draws parallels to pre-WWII America, warning that current tariffs and “America First” rhetoric echo the dangerous isolationism of the 1930s.
    • “There are certain similarities right now to the 30s… Those who were totally anxious to stay out of all of what was going on in Europe were called America First. Sound familiar?” – McConnell via Mika Brzezinski [48:06]
  • Jon Meacham champions McConnell's legacy, noting the historical importance of his dissent.

• Sports & Culture Sidebars:

  • Panelists recap tennis highlights from the US Open and a wild Eagles-Cowboys NFL opener, injecting humor and personal asides (e.g., Jon Meacham’s “over-80” tennis achievements).

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Willie Geist:

  • “A bipartisan drubbing of a Cabinet member… brutal from beginning to end.” [05:25]

• Jonathan Martin:

  • “I think Kennedy’s facing profound challenges because… Trump is loyal to Trump. If you’re getting bad coverage... he eventually is going to get tired of you.” [13:37]

• Dr. Michael Osterholm:

  • “I've never seen a more dangerous time for public health… that threatens the very public health structure that we've so relied upon for the last hundred years.” [32:57]

• Mika Brzezinski:

  • “80% of Americans agree there should be vaccine mandates for children going to school… including 68% of Republicans.” [29:21]

• Jon Meacham:

  • “Vaccines... are like traffic rules... you give up a little bit of your liberty in order to protect the safety of the many.” [24:16]

• Mitch McConnell (via Mika):

  • “There are certain similarities right now to the 30s. Herbert Hoover signed the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Bill in 1930... Those who were totally anxious to stay out of all of what was going on in Europe were called America First. Sound familiar?” [48:06]

Segment Timestamps

• [05:25] – Senators’ bipartisan criticism of RFK Jr.
• [06:31] – Key hearing clips, confusion/denial on vaccine & COVID death stats
• [13:37] – Jonathan Martin on RFK-Trump political deal and Republican frustration
• [18:17] – Wall Street Journal and Vice President Vance’s defense of Kennedy
• [24:16] – Jon Meacham’s historical analysis of vaccine skepticism
• [29:21] – Polling on vaccine mandates and shifting political attitudes
• [32:57] – Dr. Osterholm on pandemic preparedness and Kennedy’s impact
• [36:53] – Jonathan Martin on bipartisan cell phone bans in schools
• [48:06] – McConnell’s isolationism warning and panel reflections

Conclusion & Takeaway

This episode powerfully illustrates a rare moment of bipartisan unity—not in calm, but in sharp rebuke of a controversial HHS Secretary. The panel dissects not just the immediate hearing drama, but the deeper anxieties it has unleashed around public health, the future of vaccine policy, and the shifting contours of American political identity. With expert insight and pointed commentary, the episode underscores a precarious moment for public trust in health institutions—and signals the growing tension, even within the party of government, over science, leadership, and America’s role on the world stage.

For listeners who missed the episode, this summary provides a roadmap of every critical point, memorable exchange, and broader context discussed.