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- [00:01]
Meta Glasses Assistant
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- [00:21]
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- [00:24]
Meta Glasses Assistant
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- [01:04]
Host or Narrator
A landmark moment as France passes a law banning social media use for anyone under 15 years old. That makes France the first European nation to actually do so. Several other European countries have also drafted similar legislation after Australia became the world's first country to ban use for anyone under the age of 16.
- [01:22]
Georgia Howe
In today's episode, we speak to an award winning author about the effect of smartphones on kids and practical solutions for protecting your family. I'm Georgia how with Daily Wire executive editor John Bickley, and this is a weekend episode of Morning Wire. Joining us now is Claire Morell, author of the Tech A Practical Guide for Freeing Kids and Teens from Smartphones. Claire, thanks for coming on.
- [01:45]
Claire Morell
Thanks for having me.
- [01:47]
Georgia Howe
So in your new book, you've been arguing that some of the mainstream solutions to the tech and screen time issue with kids are not really working. So first of all, what are the signs that they're not working and what are those strategies that we've been encouraged to use?
- [02:01]
Claire Morell
Absolutely. So what I talk about in my book is how the main strategies kind of sold to parents are screen time limits and parental controls. But if we look at the research, in reality, these are really not working out. And we can see this because the design of interactive screens, smartphones, social media apps is inherently addictive. And screen times do not work when something is addictive because even in a short amount of time, these children are getting these artifacts, artificially high bursts of dopamine while they're on these platforms or these screens. And then immediately as soon as they leave the app or the screen, their brain plunges into this dopamine deficit state, which creates this constant craving to go back on. So the time limit will really never be enough. And even in a short amount of time, they can experience those addictive effects. And then what happens is, say you, you know, 15 minutes a day, cumulatively over time, even those 15 minutes a day is really too much for a child's developing BR and nervous system. And so what happens then is they actually, their brain over time becomes desensitized to pleasures in the real world, their brain is in this kind of chronic dopamine deficit state. And so just I kind of make the analogy in the book. We've treated screens like sugar, something that can be enjoyed in moderation. But when we look at the brain research, these screens act on the brain the same way highly addictive substances like drugs, alcohol and tobacco do. And so they're not safe in any amount. In the same way we've restricted those other dangerous addictive substances out of childhood. We need to take a similar approach to screens. They're more like digital fentanyl than they are like sugar.
- [03:41]
Georgia Howe
Now, I know when I was young there was a lot of concern about screen time. Of course, at that time it was cartoons or at a certain point, MTV was a big concern for parents as well as computer time. Would you say that screen time today is different than screen time in the past in terms of the way it affects the brain? Or is all screen time either big screen, small screen the same?
- [04:07]
Claire Morell
No. So screen time today is very different than it has been in the past. And I try to distinguish this in the book, these categories of what I call interactive screens, where the user is actually interacting and getting feedback from the screen or the app. And that is what makes it so addicting. That's what releases those hits of dopamine is they actually get this social feedback or they're able to interact with it. Like on gaming apps or social media, there's this kind of constant interaction and that's what makes it so addicting. And so that's different. You know, television is more of a passive screen. You're consuming content. But these interactive screens like tablets and smartphones and social media really keep a child extremely engaged because it every, you know, couple seconds, they're getting this new hit of dopamine. You know, they unlocked a new reward, they got a new like or a new follower, and they have this infinite scroll. There's this infinite nature to these interactive screens where they can just scroll down to the next video and the next video. And we see that these short form videos in particular these 45 second clips, very different than a long TV program or a movie, are again, extremely addicted to the brain and are having these negative effects on children's memory, attention, their focus. And in a lot of cases, these interactive screens are either increasing the chances of children developing symptoms of autism or ADHD, or they are actually mimicking symptoms of those disorders. And it turns out in a lot of cases the children don't actually have adhd. But the screens, these interactive screens in particular, have revved up a child's nervous system and are mimicking these kind of effects of adhd, like inability to focus, irritability, tantrums and things like that.
- [05:51]
Georgia Howe
What age group does this start showing up in and what kind of signs and symptoms would parents look for?
- [05:58]
Claire Morell
Honestly, it can happen very young. And I was just reading a recent study that said 2/3 of children under the age of two are on interactive screens every day, some as much as eight hours per day. And they're seeing then in these children troubles with sleep and also communication issues, language delays. They're not developing kind of language and literacy the way we would expect. Other studies on 3 to 5 year olds show that again, these interactive screens in particular are leading to a reduction in of white matter in the brain, which is critical for language development, literacy development. And then as I mentioned, a lot of parents might notice symptoms of kind of tantrums or irritability or difficulties focusing or paying attention. And I would just really encourage parents to look at the screens in your child's life that this might be a main cause of some of these behavioral effects. Emotional dysregulation, difficulty with sleep in young children, and then with young adults and teens, obviously there's even kind of more evidence of the kind of mental health harms of smartphones in social media. The younger the age of first smartphone we see, the worse the mental health outcomes even into young adulthood. So these actually have long term effects, not even just short term, but any signs of anxiety or depression or sleep issues. It would all just kind of indicate that the parents should really look seriously at the kind of interactive screen use in their child's life.
- [07:31]
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- [09:44]
Georgia Howe
Now I know as a parent it can be kind of overwhelming because now we live in a world with screens. Just in my line of work, it's hard for me to escape one pretty much all the time. I work in news. What is the solution if you want your child to have the best possible chance of having a healthy brain?
- [10:03]
Sponsor or Advertiser
Develop?
- [10:05]
Claire Morell
Yes. So this is where my book comes in, because I wanted a really Practical path forward for parents and I, I also wanted to convince parents that not only do I believe that a smartphone free childhood is necessary, but that it's actually possible. And there are parents that are doing this. And what I always encourage parents is start small, start with a digital screen detox so you don't have to necessarily commit to this long term from the get go, but try out a deto for your child for at a minimum three weeks and if possible 30 days, where you actually eliminate all those interactive screens from a child's life. So no tablets, no video games, no social media, no smartphones. And you really commit to this as a family and you explain what you're doing and why to your child and you set aside this time on the calendar. Because I really believe that we can commit to something for a time limited amount that if you're skeptical just trying it out. And the reason that I say that is it's actually difficult for parents to completely disentangle the impacts of screens until you remove them. That we're actually, it's difficult to see the effects from this kind of chronic dopamine use until they're taken away. And so I just, I think even if parents think ah, I don't think the screens are affecting my child that much, just I want them to be able to see the difference for themselves by just removing them for a time limited period. And what it does is actually allows the child's brain to reset the dopamine levels, recalibrate to a normal level of homeostasis. And then children actually start experiencing pleasure in real life things again and their creativity and their imagination come back. And so it actually gets easier. So parents who say, I can't imagine taking the tablet away, my child is going to throw a major meltdown. That may be true, but you kind of have to push through this initial pain point of maybe a week or two where they're still asking and begging for the screens. It is kind of like withdrawal. There is an addictive element again to these screens. But then you get to that point and you'll see changes in your kids. I think parents would never have imagined were possible. And it really restores a child's brain to their best possible level of flourishing.
- [12:14]
Georgia Howe
Now we also see some states like California, for example, imposing limits on social media to I think age 16. Some other states have talked about age 14. Do you think that, you know, outside policies are have a place in this conversation or do you think that's kind of too little for most cases?
- [12:32]
Claire Morell
I do. I think that this is what I always talk about is it's a both and parents are always going to be on the front lines and they are ultimately responsible for protecting their children. But unfortunately the effects of smartphones and social media are not just on the individual user. They create really negative group dynamics for, for teens. So even if a child is not on social media, they can actually experience these negative social effects even if all their other peers are interacting through the medium of social media. And so I think that's where there is a place then to say laws can also really helpfully back par up and particularly solve for some of these group dynamics and these kind of collective action problems where you know, parents honestly will tell me that they didn't want to give their child a smartphone or social media but they felt pressured into it. And I think a lot of parents identify with those kind of social pressures. And so I do think laws like a mandatory minimum age for social media, like Australia has done, the state of Florida has done for 14 year olds and under, can really again help parents then say oh this is just a non option under this certain age and kind of help remove those pressures and then just again create a healthier social environment for teens free of the negative influences of social media. So I, I think it's both and parents of course this isn't an excuse if those laws are not passed to do your best to keep your child off of these harmful apps, but they can certainly help support parents. And so I'm very supportive of legal efforts like that. And again, kind of putting social media in the category of other things that we have age restricted when we see that something's inherently addictive and harmful to, we haven't left it completely up to parents alone. For social media, a similar approach could be really helpful.
- [14:16]
Georgia Howe
Now your book focuses on kids, but just as you were speaking, I mean I think there's a lot of parents who also feel like they're struggling with this addiction as well. What kind of advice would you give for parents and, or just adults who feel like this is a problem that they want to take on for themselves or on a family level?
- [14:34]
Claire Morell
Yes, adults, we are certainly not immune from the addictive effects. I think they're particularly, particularly pernicious for young brains that are not fully developed because the prefrontal cortex of the brain, which is responsible for our emotional regulation, our self control, our impulse control, isn't fully developed until age 25. And this is why for a child then on social media their brain is like all gas pedal and no brakes. Parents, adults we can put those brakes on a little bit easier, but those addictive effects are still very much present. And, and part of that too isn't just us having a healthier relationship for our own. Focus, attention, memory, all benefits, you know, they've seen in adults who give up their smartphone for two weeks or so, experience all these cognitive benefits, but really to model for our children what a healthy use of a phone would look like so that when they do get one as an adult, they have a better example to follow. And so I, I give parents practical advice of just distancing yourself from your phones, especially when you're at home with your kids. Our family, we have a phone box where we leave them and we try to really not have devices out when our children are around until they go to slee and then just dumbing down your phone as much as possible to make it less addicting and distracting to you. So I always tell people to ruthlessly eliminate apps that they really don't need to do on their phone that could wait for them to do it on a computer. Putting your phone in grayscale, hiding notifications, hiding apps away in folders. There's all sorts of steps and there's actually better alternative phone options available even for adults today who say, you know what, even though steps isn't enough, it's still too addicting for me. And so I myself made the switch about three years ago to, to a non smartphone alternative called the Wise Phone that allows me functional apps like tools like Venmo and Uber and Google Maps, but no Internet browser, no email, no social media, nothing addictive. And so I do think we have to examine ourselves to say what kind of addictive effects are these screens having on us and honestly, coming between us and our children, impacting our relationships with them. So I always tell parents, the answer is not giving your child with an underdeveloped brain a smartphone to you to learn how to use it wisely, but it's actually pushing those out of childhood, helping them form their habits without it. And then you as the adult having conversations with them and modeling by your own use how to use this technology wisely if and when then they do get a smartphone as an adult.
- [17:02]
Georgia Howe
All right, well, Claire, this is definitely top of mind for so many parents. Thank you so much for coming on today.
- [17:08]
Claire Morell
Thank you for having me.
- [17:10]
Host or Narrator
That was Claire Morell, author of The2Tech Exit, and this has been a weekend edition of Morning Wire.