Podcast Summary: Morning Wire

Episode: Big Fertility Exposed: The Dark Side of Modern Surrogacy
Date: March 22, 2026
Hosts: John Bickley, Georgia Howe
Guest: Katie Foust (Founder and President, Them Before Us; Spokesperson, Greater Than Campaign)

Overview

This episode of Morning Wire investigates how modern surrogacy laws—especially in California—have given rise to alarming abuses, commodification of children, and international exploitation, with a focus on recent scandals involving foreign nationals procuring large numbers of children via surrogacy. Guest Katie Foust, a children’s rights advocate, provides expert insight into the roots, consequences, and ethical dilemmas within the surrogacy industry, including its links to recent legal reforms, adoption law, and national security concerns.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Disturbing Surrogacy Case in California

[03:21–05:00]

• Case Details:

  • A Chinese couple charged with child abuse after authorities discovered 21 surrogate children in their California home—15 under age three.
  • The couple ran the surrogacy agency that procured all the children and kept them in their mansion.
  • Authorities were alerted when an infant was hospitalized with signs of abuse.
  • Footage showed toddlers with shaved heads forced to sit for hours, being slapped and beaten by nannies.

  Quote:

  "It was discovered that all of these children were living in their multimillion dollar mansion when one of the infants was taken to the hospital with signs of abuse... Obviously, this was not the kind of home where the Chinese couple simply wanted to have a large family, which is what they ended up telling investigators."
  — Katie Foust [03:41]

2. Legal and Structural Loopholes

[05:00–06:26]

• California's Surrogacy Laws:

  • Surrogacy laws are so permissive that there's virtually no check on who can acquire children or in what quantity.
  • Legal frameworks allow for severing children from biological parents and reassigning them without proper vetting.
  • “Surrogacy as designed”—not just a case “gone wrong,” but functioning as permitted by current law.

  Quote:

  "Surrogacy is designed to completely detach children from their genetic parents and assign them to any and every adult who has the money to acquire them."
  — Katie Foust [05:18]

3. Foreign Involvement: A National Security Angle

[06:26–08:27]

• Chinese Buyers and US Surrogacy:

  • California is a destination for international “buyers,” overwhelmingly Chinese, many single men over 40.
  • Reference to Chinese billionaire Xu Bu, who procured over 100 children through California surrogates to secure US citizenship for them.
  • Raises national security and citizenship concerns.
  • US surrogacy market is “virtually regulation free,” making it a magnet for such activity.

  Quote:

  “We’ve long known that foreign buyers were overwhelmingly Chinese and that about 40% of those Chinese buyers were single men over the age of 40… [they] specifically wanted them to have U.S. citizenship.”
  — Katie Foust [06:46]

4. The Role of Recent Legal and Cultural Changes

[08:57–10:13]

• Connection to Obergefell (Same-Sex Marriage Decision):

  • Foust argues that permissive parenthood statutes—enabling non-biologically related adults to acquire children—stem from legal reforms post-Obergefell.
  • Claims moves toward “adult equality” have deprioritized children's best interests in the law.
  • Elimination of biological criteria in parenthood statutes enables commodification of children.

  Quote:

  “There could be no distinctions between same sex and opposite sex couples as it relates to marriage. But parenthood law is always connected to marriage law. So now that forced the law to accomplish what biology prohibits… That is making two adults of the same sex the parents of a child. That requires eliminating male and female from parenthood statutes."
  — Katie Foust [09:06]

5. The Challenge of Reform

[10:13–11:18]

• Is Change Possible?

  • Foust insists legal reform is possible, advocating for children’s rights as paramount.
  • Highlights coalition efforts (Greater Than Campaign) to roll back the legal framework enabling such abuses.

  Quote:

  “Obergefell victimized children… It creates the legal framework so any adult can acquire as many children as they want, however they want, in whatever way they want, when they want them. That is the necessary result of Obergefell, the commodification of children.”
  — Katie Foust [10:20]

6. Surrogacy Laws in Other States

[11:18–12:36]

• US as a Fertility Marketplace:
  • No state has laws truly structured around the best interest of the child in surrogacy contexts.
  • The US is unique in its “regulation-free” environment; other countries prohibit foreign procurement via surrogacy.
  • Few bans left; commercial surrogacy is overtaking child-centered frameworks.

7. Stark Divergence from Adoption Standards

[12:36–14:06]

• Adoption vs. Surrogacy:

  • Severe contrast between the intense, documented screening of adoptive parents and the total lack of vetting in commercial surrogacy.
  • Personal account: As a former adoption agency director, Foust describes adoption safeguards as child-centric, while surrogacy is market-driven.
  • Warns that Big Fertility lobby and tech interests overwhelm child-focused reform.

  Quote:

  “Right now, it’s completely schizophrenic...unrelated adults are able to walk out of the hospital with a baby that they’re not genetically related to with no background checks if they can assemble them through reproductive technologies and acquire the sperm, egg and womb and have a valid contract.”
  — Katie Foust [12:53]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “News items like this break out every now and then, and people clutch their pearls and say, oh, this is a case of surrogacy gone wrong. That's incorrect. This is surrogacy as designed.” (Katie Foust, 05:18)
• “Most countries do not allow foreigners to come and buy their children through surrogacy. But because the world of big fertility here in the United States operates virtually regulation free, we are the fertility destination for all manner of people that want to procure unrelated children.” (Katie Foust, 08:13)
• “Adoption is about the best interest of the child. Big Fertility is a marketplace centered around the desires of adults.” (Katie Foust, 11:48)
• “The law is going to have to figure out how to align itself. Right now, it’s completely schizophrenic…” (Katie Foust, 12:53)

Key Timestamps

• [03:21] — Introduction of Katie Foust & overview of the California surrogacy case
• [05:18] — Breakdown of California’s surrogacy laws and their inherent risks
• [06:46] — Discussion of Chinese involvement and the case of Xu Bu
• [09:06] — Legal and cultural changes post-Obergefell and their consequences
• [10:20] — Prospects for legal reforms and advocacy efforts
• [11:48] — Comparison with adoption standards and lack of similar safeguards in surrogacy

Tone & Closing Thoughts

Throughout the episode, the tone is grave, urgent, and deeply concerned with the welfare and rights of children. Foust and the hosts draw stark lines between the unchecked expansion of “Big Fertility,” legal permissiveness, and the grave risks posed to children and society. The call to action is unmistakable: listeners are encouraged to reconsider the trajectory of surrogacy policy and advocate for child-centered legal reform.

Memorable Closing:
“It’s important for us to think about it. The very real lives of children are at stake.”
— Katie Foust [14:14]

For listeners who missed the episode, this summary covers the critical arguments, shocking examples, and the pressing advocacy frontlines regarding the dark underside of modern surrogacy in America.