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‘Brothers After War’: An Interview With Gary Sinise & Jake Rademacher | 3.1.25
00:22:39
A new film by Gary Sinese and Jake Rademacher takes an unflinching and personal look at the struggles and triumphs of US soldiers and veterans returning home from the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. To see the film please use the following link: https://tickets.brothersafterwar.com/ For free tickets for Veterans: https://brothersafterwar.com/free-tickets-vettix/
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- [00:03]
Jake Rademacher
Returning from war and re entering civilian life can be the hardest part of military service, particularly after wars mired in controversy like Iraq and Afghanistan. Yet that part of a soldier's story often goes untold. A new film produced by Gary Sinise and directed by Jake Rademacher takes an unflinching and personal look at the struggles and triumphs of US Soldiers returning home from the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.
- [00:29]
John Bickley
In this episode, we sit down with Sinise and Radha Machar to discuss the making of their new film and how it folds into their larger mission of supporting and honoring America's bravest. I'm Daily Wire Editor in Chief John Bickley with Georgia Howe. It's Saturday, March 1st, and this is a weekend edition of Morning Wire. Joining us now to discuss their new film, Brothers After War, is executive producer Gary Sinise and director Jake Rademacher. First of all, gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us.
- [00:59]
Jake Rademacher
Thank you for having us.
- [01:00]
Gary Sinise
Yeah, thank you, John. Good to be with you.
- [01:03]
John Bickley
You know, I wanted to say Georgia and I had a truly remarkable time at the premiere here in Nashville earlier this week, and we came away with a lot of questions we wanted to ask you first, Jake, this is a sequel, in effect, for those who maybe haven't had the opportunity to see the film that preceded this one, Brothers at War. You've been documenting this group of men, your brothers and more, for decades now. How did these documentaries come about?
- [01:28]
Jake Rademacher
You know, the first one came because my brothers Joe and Isaac told me that the truth was not coming home from Iraq. And this was 2004. They were at the 82nd Airborne. They were in combat. Joe was a sniper with the 82nd Airborne, 18 years old. Isaac was a captain, infantry officer, doing civil relations. And as a family member, as a brother, that pissed me off. So I went back to my hometown, I raised some money and, and I got myself over to Iraq and I embedded in Isaac's unit and he let me film everything. I got out to the Syrian border with his guys. Eventually, the film follows him home. He predicts his daughter won't recognize him. She doesn't. That's all in the first film and the second. Yeah. And then I went back to Iraq a second time. My youngest brother's kind of a hard ass, Joe, to put it bluntly. Gary's probably laughing, but he gives me a hard time when he's 19. And then 15 years later in Brothers After War. But he said, you didn't see enough. You don't know. So I went back to Iraq. I went to The Sunni Triangle. I embedded with the National Guard Infantry Company sniper team, the Iraqi army and Marine advisors working with them. And I spent about six weeks over on that second trip. I went out six days a week and I got into a decent amount of combat and saw kind of the tougher, harder part of war. And all of that became Brothers at War. I was asked to go to Iraq a third time to screen it for General Petraeus Public affairs folks. And while I was over there, a Marine colonel, a really lovely lady said with tears in her eyes, you have to share this with Gary Sinise. Now, I, as a first time filmmaker who grew up in Chicago in the beginning of my career and always have looked up and admired Gary, said, do you have a cell phone number? Because we're not all drinking at the same cantina back there in la. And she said, no. But I shared this story with a friend of ours, Michael Broderick. And Michael said, I know Gary and I think he'd love your film. And one thing led to another and Gary graciously created a couple hours on his schedule. He was shooting CSI New York. And I went over to CBS two days before Thanksgiving in 2007 and it was Gary Sinise, myself and Norman Powell. We watched Brothers at War. And I'll never forget it. You know, Gary was very moved at the end of the film. He just sat there like in silence for two or three minutes and I just let him sit in it. And then he said, it's a very important film, Jake, it's a very important film. And then Gary, as Gary does, he kind of started telling me what to do. So, and it was all good ideas and you know, it's like one of your heroes giving you advice, you're going to take it. And so eventually we said, let's make this official. And I asked him to be executive producer of the film. And that was, you know, in 2007. And he's been by our side ever since. And the workshops that have come out of that have been sort of a collaboration. I'll come up with an idea, bring it to Gary for his thoughts, and next thing I know I'm in front of, you know, 700 soldiers back from Iraq. And this new film also came out of that continuing collaboration, the conversations that we had. And so then we kind of came together and said, let's make this film. And Gary was the first one to support it. Eventually I got an opportunity to talk to his foundation about it. They fell in love with the idea as well. And then in 2019 I set off across the world, four continents, to follow up with my two brothers and then 10 friends I made in Iraq to make Brothers After War.
- [04:48]
John Bickley
Wow. Now, Gary, you obviously know exactly what makes for successful storytelling. Why did this particular project, Brothers After War, appeal to you so much?
- [05:00]
Gary Sinise
Well, because. Thank you, John. Because of the first film. In the days that Jake was making that movie, I had made a commitment to just do everything I could to try to help our service members out. And I was trying to use the spotlight that I had on television with CSI New York and some of the popularity of that, to take that spotlight and shine it on what our service members and military families were going through. And when I saw Jake's movie, it was just so perfectly aligned with the messages that I was trying to kind of get out to the American people about what our service members were doing overseas and how we should support them and the difficulties of military activities, military duty, life. And that's what the first movie is about. So it was like this beautiful gem kind of came right at the time where I was kind of. That's my wheelhouse there. And that's why I signed on to help Jake and to try to do everything I could to draw attention to that first movie. And we had a very successful run, really, for a documentary of the first movie. Jake and I have talked about this. It got a theatrical run. It got dvd. It was on television. I mean, it really did well for a documentary. And as Jake said, out of that grew the workshops that he began doing on military bases all over the country, all over the place. Just thousands of service members have seen the brothers at war. Jake and I were talking at a certain point, probably about, gosh, it was pre pandemic. So it goes back probably five to six years now, maybe.
- [06:47]
Jake Rademacher
Oh, even back to 2015. Gary is when we first started talking about it. And then we shot some of the scenes in 2016 and 17, and then it kept evolving.
- [06:56]
Gary Sinise
It was that long? 10 years?
- [06:58]
Jake Rademacher
Yep.
- [06:59]
John Bickley
Wow.
- [06:59]
Gary Sinise
I remember being in my office, Jake, and you and Norman were there, and we started talking. Was that. Was that when it was. Was it that 2015?
- [07:09]
Jake Rademacher
Well, 2018. I brought you those first scenes, first moments and interviews with Isaac and Hunter and Derek, which is in this new film. And that's when you were like, we're gonna do this now.
- [07:23]
Gary Sinise
It really hits you. I remember the. The first idea for it. You know, what happened. You know, I was curious about what happened to the people that were in the first movie. And I remember asking Jake how many of them had you stayed in touch with how many of them are in the service, still out of the service, what's going on with them. And those initial conversations, God, if they were 10 years ago, that's. That's amazing. But that started the ball rolling and Jake started his wheels going and, you know, when Jake gets going, it's a good thing. So we eventually, we came to the realization that Brothers After War, which now looks at the transition from military service, active duty military, transitioning out of the military into the civilian world and the challenges that our veterans face. That's what this second movie is about. My foundation is very. That's our mission is to support the men and women who serve our country and our veterans and first responders and to try to help them where needed. And that's why we decided at the Gary Sinise foundation that we were going to sponsor the film because it was surely going to not only lead to some good things, like what happened to the first film and the workshops that came out of that, but also ongoing support, because I think the movie really speaks to that question of what is it like for our service members to come home and what can we do to support them?
- [09:02]
John Bickley
You know, it really struck me as you're seeing a complete three dimensional person, as you get to know each of the heroes that you highlight in this. These are real people that struggle with real things. The sense that we get two decades of insight into some of these guys, it really fleshes it out for you. It's very real. And I wanted to talk about that. The workshops that you've done appear to have helped shape this film. There were questions and answers after the premiere this week that even got very, very emotional, pretty raw at times. And you could feel the. The workshop mode taking over in some ways. Jake, I know that you run these. How did that help? How did working with a lot of soldiers coming home, becoming civilians, working through that process, how did it help shape this film?
- [09:45]
Jake Rademacher
Well, it's a great question, John, and one thing you said is three dimensional. I was very, very passionate about presenting a three dimensional look at these service members. Soldiers, Marines, veterans, wherever they are on the spectrum of their career in life. I wanted to give. These are my friends, these are my brothers. Oftentimes when you see documentaries, people cherry pick sad stories. They're not really in the community. Somebody's kind of doing their drive by film about it and that's not Gary Sinise and I. He's been doing this for 40 years. I've been at this project for 21 years. I was at combat with these guys. So I really wanted to. And this is from the very beginning I said, gary, I can't just come and do an interview. I've got to actually spend a day with these people. I've got to. I've got to embed in their life now. I embedded with them in the foxholes. I got to embed with them. Whether that means I got to jump out of an airplane with them or go scuba diving or, you know, get weapons training, which I did all, all of that.
- [10:42]
John Bickley
Literally.
- [10:42]
Jake Rademacher
Yeah, I go on a construction site with Ben. Like, I want to show the audience these are, you know, these are for the most part, highly functioning people, but they are still carrying some of the invisible wounds of war. They still have some work to do. And I'll show their vulnerability, but I also want to show their strength. And so I have to say that Gary also felt strongly about that. And as I finished the film and then got through the process of recutting it, it was frankly some of his insistence, you know, some of the humor that's in the film. Gary was like, hey, did you. Did anything funny happen? I'm like, yeah, mostly at my expense. So we started putting some of that back in the movie so that we could give audiences the chance to laugh alongside us, but then also feel alongside us and then also have some of that solution. Your question about the workshops is very astute. What was special was I was. I was there with them. I chewed dirt with them. I spent three months, I lived with them. I came in with Final Cut as a filmmaker wanting to really understand them and where they're coming from. So I had incredible access. I followed that up with walking with our service members for 14 years as they came home from war. When Oklahoma, where I am now, lost 14 soldiers in combat and a few to suicide, they called me and said, can you come? And I came and we built the workshop to what it is today. We expanded it to help, you know, help them deal with the loss of their friends. We wrote a workbook for family members. And so the reason why that's important, you know, the 21 Marines, when they lost 11 guys recently, we, you know, with the help of the Gary Sneeze foundation, we went there and did a workshop and we play the original film. And then we first part. What part of the film do you relate to? And then I've got 18, 19, 20 year old Marines for 45 minutes talking about what they related to in the film. And that's the power of the movie. It makes tough Subjects easier to talk about. Well, this filmmaker was in the war zone, spends a decade working with veterans, helping them walk through the trauma of war and then turn that into post traumatic growth so they can thrive. And his directions from the studio head, Gary, are I want to know how they're doing and what they need. So when I say in the beginning of the film, I want to know how they're doing, how they're really doing, I mean it. And you'll see that in the film, I push them sometimes. That moment when we reexamine Gunner and his first response is, not in the film. I asked him about that response where he's in combat, there's bullets going across the lens of my camera. Then I come upon one of the saddest things I've ever seen in my life, which is these wounded Iraqi soldiers that were just patrolling their own country. And now one's got his leg busted up, the other one's got a jaw messed up. And Gunner's on one knee caressing the face of a wounded Iraqi soldier. Right? This is like a warrior. This is. This is like a warrior's warrior, all right? And I'm filming it, I see him do this, and I'm in the midst of all this horror. There's this moment of grace on earth. And I ask him about it and he kind of goes, yeah, yeah, the bullets were flying. La, la, la. And I go, gunner, I was there and it was grace on earth. And I pushed in my camera to get a close up because it just. I just. It was the most important thing happening right there. And he stops and he looks down and he starts to cry, and he gets real and he says, it's because that's your. It's an intimate connection you have with another man. And it hurts. He was my soldier. And that is the reality of the film that I have, that I was there first of all. But I know from doing our seminars that it's okay for me to ask that question and ask them to take a step further into the experience. And it's. He's gonna have to feel it a little bit to heal it. And so he opens up and starts talking about that. So that's an invitation for anybody that's been in that hard moment of combat to reexamine that and watch somebody else walk through it. Two months after I was there, David reached out to me and he said, jake, thank you for coming. It really helped. And on Friday night, David is gonna do a Q and A, and We've invited the 2nd Marine Division, where He used to be the division gunner to come and listen to him do a Q and A. So now, if you take this all the way through the life cycle in 2005, six, I'm there with him in combat. He was the one who was in the crossfire. He's the reason we went out there. Now. He hasn't totally walked through his own trauma. We make the film, which becomes an opportunity for him to really look at some of these moments. He's sort of buried a little bit. He heals from that. And now he's using the film to model that for other Marines and to help them understand, hey, guys, when you're in a war zone, not necessarily the time to talk about your feelings. However, when you come home, the more you talk about it, the more you make sense of it, the more you open up to your family or friends, the easier it's going to be for you to transition to the next part of your life.
- [15:45]
John Bickley
You know, I wanted to stress that suicide does come up in this film. And, Jake, you cited some statistics in the Q and A that are just utterly shocking. Somebody that's looked at it actually hard to believe, but this is not a sob story for all of these, again, heroes. There was a lot of victory. A lot of what we're actually witnessing in the film is all of them figuring out ways to deal with, to address these very traumatic things that they've gone through and make the transition and move on from them. And, Gary, your foundation is driven by a lot of hope for our veterans that it's not a tragedy we're dealing with. These are a bunch of people that are the bravest, the most important members of society. They need some support, but they can and do amazing things when they come back. Can you speak to that some?
- [16:30]
Gary Sinise
Yeah. We provide all kinds of services at the Erie Sinise foundation to just keep people whole. Certainly have been a lot of broken people over the years, you know, with the withdrawal from Afghanistan and the difficulty there and 20 years of sacrifice and the Taliban taking back the country and young girls going back into slavery after that. You have a lot of veterans that served there that were really struggling with that quite a bit and have been, and we continue to provide multiple services on many fronts to try to help them and their families. Brothers After War is part of our wellness program at the Gary Sinise Foundation. Like Jake said, he'll be doing workshops with both movies. Me will be doing workshops for active duty and it will be doing workshops with Brothers After War for veterans. And we've had to expand that. I said to him at one point, jake, you know what? You want to expand this program, but you can't do it all by yourself. So we have to have additional counselors and additional trainers, people that can really train folks in giving them the tools that we're trying to give them to move on with their lives. It's all about moving on in a positive way. I had this conversation with Jake many times when I played Lieutenant Dan Taylor in Forrest Gump. The good thing about that story is that it's a happy ending at the end, right? You've got a guy who goes off to war. He's serving during a time of conflict in our own country about whether he should have even been in the war or not. He has to isolate. He drowns himself in alcohol and disappears. But then, thankfully, at the end of that story, he's standing up again, he's making peace, and he's moving on. And that's the story that we want for every single person who goes and serves in the military and comes home from war and defends our country. We want them to be okay. We want them to move on. A lot of them are struggling. So we try to provide as many wellness programs at the Gary Sinise foundation as possible to support them. And if we don't have those programs, we try to point them in the right direction. Jake and his films are a part of our relief and resiliency efforts at the Gary Sinise foundation to make sure that if you go off to war, you go to serve your country, that there is a grateful nation out there and that we appreciate what you've been doing for us and that we're going to back you up.
- [19:06]
John Bickley
It's beautiful and wonderful, and it speaks to the success of your workshops that you need more people doing more of them because clearly they're making a difference. A final question for both of you. What's next with this project? Where can people see it? How do you plan to use this going forward with your various efforts?
- [19:24]
Gary Sinise
Yeah, well, you can go to Gary sinisefoundation.org or you can go to brothersafterwar.com there you will find links to find theaters near you that the movie will be playing this weekend. You can actually go onto a link, put your town or your zip code in there and it'll tell you what Regal Theaters it's playing in. And by the way, Regal has been just outstanding with us on this one. Really supportive of Jake and the movie. They've got it in how many theaters this weekend?
- [19:58]
Jake Rademacher
Jake Now, Yeah, it's sort of astounding. We're playing in 138 movie theaters across the country, and 100 of those movie theaters are Regal Cinemas.
- [20:08]
John Bickley
Really encouraging to see a major chain like that get behind this. It's exciting.
- [20:13]
Gary Sinise
It really is. And you can also go, you know, for veterans out there if you're interested in seeing the film. The Gary Sinise foundation has provided $150,000 to Vet Tix. Vet tix.com we want veterans to see this movie. So we provided a grant to Vet Ticks so that they can provide tickets so veterans can see this film for free.
- [20:37]
John Bickley
Terrific. We'll certainly put the links below in these episodes, by the way, for our audience.
- [20:41]
Jake Rademacher
And, John, just to build on what Gary said and answer your question, the reason why the Gary Sneeze foundation, and Gary personally, is making sure the vets know about this, the reason why we are offering this incredible, generous gift that they're offering is because, you know, theater was started by warriors coming home and trying to explain to the rest of society what war was like and what coming home from war was like. And so the Gary Sneeze foundation is trying to give them the gift of being able to go to their local movie theater at a time that's convenient for them and to bring their family and as a community to come together. And we know the film encourages camaraderie and communication. And as you said, this is a. For the topics we get into, it's a pretty easy film and a pretty good ride. You might have a little bit of feelings here and there because you're feeling something for these heroes that serve us, and that's a good thing. But overall, it's an incredible insider's look at what it means to serve our country and to come home from that. And I think this gift is incredible because it's encouraging veterans go to the movie theater and experience this as a group together. And so that's the next step. We'll be doing Brothers After War movie and seminars for years to come. But we really want our veterans and our first responders and our service members and their families to go and experience this as a community on opening weekend.
- [22:10]
John Bickley
Well, terrific. I hope a lot of people show up. We certainly enjoyed being able to share the film and watch it with you guys this week. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk with us and just making this film. It's already saved lives, as you've highlighted, and we'll look forward to tracking its success in the future.
- [22:26]
Gary Sinise
Thank you, John.
- [22:27]
Jake Rademacher
Thank you, John, so much.
- [22:28]
John Bickley
That was Gary Sinise and Jake Rademacher talking about their new film, brothers After War. And this has been a weekend edition of Morning Wire.