Former CDC Director Breaks Silence on Fauci

Summary

Morning Wire – “Former CDC Director Breaks Silence on Fauci”

Date: August 8, 2026
Hosts: John Bickley, Georgia Howe
Guest: Dr. Robert Redfield (former CDC Director)

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Episode Overview

In this special edition of Morning Wire, hosts John Bickley and Georgia Howe interview Dr. Robert Redfield, who served as CDC Director during the COVID-19 pandemic. Dr. Redfield discusses his early and persistent belief that COVID-19 emerged from a lab, his clashes with Dr. Anthony Fauci over the origin of the virus and gain-of-function research, and the significant censorship campaign faced by those questioning the official narrative. The episode features Dr. Redfield’s detailed scientific analysis of the viral genome and his firsthand experience within the highest levels of public health administration during one of the most significant crises in recent history.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dr. Redfield’s Background and Early Observations

• Professional Relationship with Dr. Fauci (01:19–01:30)
  • Dr. Redfield: “I had worked with Tony all the way back to the 1980s and AIDS. I was the CDC director when he was director of Allergy Infectious Disease.”
• Initial Assessment of COVID-19 Origin (01:30–02:50)
  • Redfield shared with the White House task force in January 2020 his view that COVID-19 was “a non natural occurring virus that was a consequence of scientific research in a laboratory.”
  • He alleges Dr. Fauci maintained, despite evidence, that the virus came from nature to “create a ruse” and protect involved agencies.

2. Gain-of-Function Research Dispute

• Debate on Research Ethics (01:56–03:30)
  • Dr. Redfield opposed gain-of-function research: “I was a big advocate of not doing gain of function research... President Trump just recently put another moratorium on creative function research.”
  • Highlights Fauci’s 2012 op-ed supporting such research, quote:

    “If the consequence of doing this research is it results in a major pandemic, it’s worth the risk. Well, the reality is it did result in a major pandemic.” (Dr. Redfield, 03:13)

3. Scientific Evidence for Lab-Origin Hypothesis

• Genomic Markers & Engineered Features (03:37–06:29)
  • Dr. Redfield elaborates on the “smoking gun” furin cleavage site—an engineered feature that enables the virus to bind to human cells but not bat cells.
  • Points out unusual codon usage, and additional modifications knocking out immune responses:

    “That cleavage sequence doesn’t belong there.” (Dr. Redfield, 04:57)

  • References analysis with Secretary of State Pompeo and Livermore Lab findings:

    “The Livermore Laboratory virologists did a really good job dissecting the genome…” (Dr. Redfield, 05:36)

• Reinfections and Immunity Manipulation (05:49–06:29)
  • Explains repeated COVID infections:

    “They knocked out several areas of the virus that would allow your body to develop what we call an immunodominant immune response, which would mean that you wouldn’t get the virus again. So this is why you can get Covid over and over again.”

  • Cites his new book, Redfield’s Warning, as a resource for further detail.

4. Funding and Institutional Involvement

• Government Agencies Involved (09:03–11:54)
  • CDC, NIH (Fauci’s Institute), the Defense Department, USAID, and State Department all contributed funding—but USAID was the largest.
  • References a 2014 publication by Wuhan scientists on engineering coronaviruses:

    “She actually finally taught a coronavirus how to infect humanized mice through the ACH2 receptor. So we know they knew how to do that.” (Dr. Redfield, 09:33)

• Comparison with Prior Outbreaks (10:14–11:22)
  • Contrasts COVID with SARS and MERS, which could not efficiently transmit human-to-human, while COVID “was immediately” effective at this.

5. Public Messaging and Vaccine Effectiveness

• Disputes Over Vaccine Impact on Transmission (11:37–11:54)
  • Dr. Redfield challenges claims made by public health officials:

    “When President Biden, Fauci said, get your grandchildren vaccinated, they don't infect grandma, that was not a true statement because there was no evidence we prevented infection at all.”

6. Censorship and Scientific Integrity

• Censorship of Lab-Leak Theory (12:05–14:15)
  • Dr. Redfield recounts being “targeted” as racist after expressing his lab-leak perspective on CNN:

    “Articles were written that I was an Asian racist because I gave my scientific opinion.”

  • Legislative bodies in Maryland condemned his statements—local House and Senate passed resolutions censoring him.
  • Describes the wet market narrative as “a ruse… supported by the NIH leadership.”
• Example of Redefining Gain-of-Function (13:11–13:59)
  • Dr. Redfield explains manipulations of definitions to obscure the work’s true nature:

    “If you start with a pathogen that’s non pathogenic for humans… and make it pathogenic, by definition, they say, well, that’s not gain of function. Of course it’s gain of function. You taught it how to infect humans.”

• Proximal Origin Paper Critique (13:59–14:15)
  • Calls the influential paper on COVID’s origins “fraudulent”:

    “That proximal origin paper, which is a fraudulent paper, should be retracted. All of those authors should be under investigation for scientific misconduct because it’s not a true paper.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Official Narrative:

  “Tony…intentionally helped create what I call a ruse that it came from the wet market.” — Dr. Robert Redfield (02:11)

• On Scientific Responsibility:

  “That was a mistake. In retrospect, that was a mistake. And that's what I was hoping Tony would do...But in retrospect, I was wrong about that. And I want to apologize to people that were harmed by some of my recommendations.” — Dr. Robert Redfield (05:58)

• On Refusal to Accept Blame:

  “I'm just sad that he didn't take advantage of being able to take responsibility for his decisions.” — Dr. Robert Redfield (06:21)

• On Censorship:

  “In the state of Maryland, House and Senate passed resolutions censoring me as a racist because I gave my scientific opinion and it was definitely censored.” — Dr. Robert Redfield (12:28)

• On Scientific Misconduct:

  “That proximal origin paper, which is a fraudulent paper, should be retracted. All of those authors should be under investigation for scientific misconduct…” — Dr. Robert Redfield (13:59)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Dr. Redfield’s Early Lab-Origin Warning: 01:30–02:50
• Gain-of-Function Debate: 01:56–03:30
• Genome Evidence & Furin Cleavage Site: 03:37–05:15
• Immune Response Manipulation: 05:35–06:29
• Public Funding and Early Engineered Research: 09:03–10:14
• Comparison to SARS and MERS Outbreaks: 10:14–11:22
• Vaccine Transmission Claims: 11:37–11:54
• Censorship and Racial Targeting: 12:05–12:38
• Definitional Games in Science Policy: 13:11–13:59
• Proximal Origin Paper Critique: 13:59–14:15

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Conclusion

Dr. Robert Redfield’s interview provides a rare, detailed glimpse into the chaotic decision-making and scientific disputes at the highest levels during COVID-19’s first year. He maintains that the suppression of the lab-origin theory and the justification for gain-of-function research were the result of scientific and bureaucratic self-protection. Redfield calls for scientific humility, accountability, and an honest reevaluation of how pandemic origins are investigated and discussed.

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Transcript

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[Podcast Host]

Five years on from the COVID pandemic, shocking details continue to come to light about the degree to which the American people were misled and information was suppressed.

[Dr. Robert Redfield]

Once we knew that this was engineered to infect humans, we should have known we were in a race.

[John Bickley]

In today's episode, we sit down with former CDC Director Dr. Robert Redfield to discuss his firsthand experience working with Dr. Fauci during the peak of the hysteria. Dr. Redfield shares why he believed from the start that the virus came from a lab, but that information was covered up. I'm Daily Wire executive editor John Bickley with Georgia Howe. This is a weekend edition of Morning Wire. Joining us now is Dr. Robert Redfield, former director of the CDC. Dr. Redfield, thanks for coming on.

[Dr. Robert Redfield]

Thank you very much for having me.

[John Bickley]

So you were serving as the head of the CDC when the COVID pandemic broke out, and you also worked closely with Dr. Fauci before that. What was that experience like?

[Dr. Robert Redfield]

Well, I, I had worked with Tony all the way back to the 1980s and AIDS. I was the CDC director when he was the director of Allergy Infectious Disease. So I was the CDC director all during the pandemic and a member of the White House task force. So I gave my professional opinion in Dest in January of 2020 that I felt that this was a non natural occurring virus that was a consequence of scientific research in a laboratory. And I shared that with the president and the committee. Tony took the position that it was from nature, from the wet market. I think there was a lot of evidence that that was not correct. And he's a very smart individual. So I believe that he actually understood that that wasn't correct and he intentionally helped create what I call a roost that it came from the wet market, largely because NIH was involved along with other government agencies of actually funding that laboratory to do this research which then ended up killing 20 million people. He was a big advocate of gain of function research where you try to make pathogens more pathogenic and more transmissible. I was a big advocate of not doing gain of function research. I wrote an op ed in the Wall Street Journal a number of years ago, really pushing our nation not to be involved in gain of function research. President Trump just recently put another moratorium on creative function research. That's really important now, if it can be enforced. Fauci wrote an op ed in 2012 where he talked about the importance of gain of function research and why that research had to go forward. And in that op ed, he said that if the consequence of doing this research is it results in a major pandemic, it's worth the risk. Well, the reality is it did result in a major pandemic.

[John Bickley]

Now, you mentioned that there was evidence to suggest this virus did not emerge organically. What evidence was there?

[Dr. Robert Redfield]

As a virologist, there's clear evidence actually in the genome of the virus itself. So if you really understand how to read the genome, you can really find out that, wait a minute, this didn't come from nature. For example, as Ray and Paul talked about, there's a furine cleavage site in this virus. And what that does is it splits the protein so that the binding domain of the virus now preferably recognizes the human receptor, but doesn't recognize the bat receptor. And when you look at those 12 nucleotides, they code for four amino acids. And the amino acid nucleotide sequence that they use, actually you can have different triplets for different amino acids. And the triplet sequence that are used in this virus are the triplet sequence that is preferred by humans, not bats. So how does a human preferred sequence for, say, arginine, how does that get in this virus? When I. It used to be classified. It's declassified now. But when I reviewed this with Pompeo, who was Secretary of State, he asked me to help interpret all this data in his office under classified conditions. And. And as I said, now it's declassified. But I told Pompeo that, you know, my view, that was. That was a smoking gun. I mean, that that cleavage sequence doesn't belong there. And there's a lot of other issues. The Livermore Laboratory virologist did really good job dissecting the genome and showing how there's also changes in the genome that knock out what we call the interfering response element. And so what that does is when you get this virus, all of a sudden, you're not going to get sick. Okay. Which if you have the inter response element triggered, you're going to get symptoms like you do for the flu. But, well, they knocked it out, and then they knocked out several other areas of the virus that would allow your body to develop what we call an immunodominant response immune response, which would mean that you wouldn't get the virus again. All right, so this is why you can get Covid over and over and over again. I just wrote a book called Redfield's Warning, which I also encourage your readers to read. In that book, I, I talk a lot about the mistakes that we were made and I acknowledging them. And that was a mistake. In retrospect, that was a mistake. That was a mistake. And that's what I was hoping Tony would do. He said, you know, I did the best I could, you know, under the circumstances. But in retrospect, I was wrong about that. I was wrong about that. And I want to apologize to people that were harmed by some of my recommendations. I mean, I'm just sad that he didn't take advantage of, of being able to take responsibility for his decisions and recommendations, be humble and realize, you know, hey, we all got things wrong.

[John Bickley]

Do you think part of his unwillingness to testify in Congress could be because he's covering up his own direct role in, you know, helping fund this Wuhan lab that appears to have artificially created the virus, not just an unwillingness to accept blame?

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[Dr. Robert Redfield]

doubt that there's a lot of protection there. I mean, more so than funding it, because he did fund it, okay? And he funded the scientists that helped make it happen, Ralph Barrick in North Carolina and others. But it is important to acknowledge that the Defense Department also funded it. USAID funded it, the State Department funded it, and Fauci's institute funded it. And actually, if you look at those, Fauci's institute was a much of a less funder than some of the others. USAID was a huge funder. I always said, you know, from the very beginning, when I made it clear in January 2020 that I thought this virus came from the laboratory and it wasn't, that I was some type of genius. If you just looked at the literature the woman scientist in that Laboratory published in 2014, in the Medical literature, she published that she actually finally taught a coronavirus how to infect humanized mice through the ACH2 receptor. Okay? So we know they knew how to do that. One thing that's true is when we got SARS and it came in in 2002, 2003, it only was very difficult to go human to human. So even though now, you know, 20 something years later, there's been less than 10,000 cases of SARS because the SARS virus never learned how to go efficiently human to human. When MERS came in in 2012, 2013, it went from a bat to a camel and then from a camel into humans. And he had also never learned how to go human to human so very well, very efficiently. So there's still less than 10,000 cases of SARS too. So it takes these viruses a long time to learn how to be efficient human to human transmitters. But when Covid came, it was immediately. If you remember the pictures we saw in November and December in Wuhan, China, there was hundreds of thousands of people infected immediately. If you take that virus now, you'll find out it doesn't hardly infect bats, but it infects humans. So it was engineered. And this is where he was disingenuous because it would have made a difference. I argued once we knew that this was engineered to infect humans, we should have known we were in a race because this virus was going to go through variant after variant after variant. You know, the vaccines that we were developed were not going to prevent infection. So when President Biden Fauci said, get your grandchildren vaccinated, they don't infect grandma, that was not a true statement because there was no evidence we prevented infection at all. There are some monoclonal antibodies that have been developed that can prevent infection, but these vaccines don't prevent infection.

[John Bickley]

Final question. When you saw that people were being censored for saying that the virus maybe comes from a lab, what did you make of that censorship campaign?

[Dr. Robert Redfield]

Well, I was very disappointed since I was the one who originally in, in Sanjay Gupta and CNN came out and said I thought the virus came from a Chinese lab. And he, you know, he really drilled me and I immediately got targeted. I mean I was. Articles were written that I was an Asian racist because I gave my scientific opinion. In the state of Maryland, House and Senate passed resolutions censoring me as a racist because I gave my scientific opinion and it was definitely censored. The wet market was set up as a roost, really supported by the NIH leadership, Fauci and Collins, but also the scientific community in general because they didn't want the attention to be on the science. They wanted the attention to be, you know, SARS and MERS were just, they came out of some bat that went to some animal intermediate into humans. Very unfortunate, very wrong. And as you point out, obviously self serving. In one of the hearings where Tony got really mad and lost his temper, he said, you know, Senator Paul, you're accusing. Because he said he didn't do gain of function research, which is not true. Tony had the definition was modified by the Institute of Medicine. So if you start with a pathogen that's pathogenic for humans and make it more pathogenic for humans, that's gain of function. But if you start with a pathogen that's non pathogenic for humans, like SARS or Covid and make it pathogenic by definition, they say, well, that's not gain of function. Of course it's gain of function. You taught it how to infect humans. So a lot of game being played and very unfortunate. I'm very disappointed with the scientific community that they orchestrated. That proximal origin paper, which is a fraudulent paper, should be retracted. All of those authors should be under investigation for scientific misconduct because it's not a true, it's not a true paper, but it immediately became one of the most quoted papers in the history of scientific literature.

[John Bickley]

Dr. Redfield, thank you so much for coming on. This has been fascinating to hear your firsthand accounts from all these very significant moments that impacted all of our lives. Thank you so much.

[Dr. Robert Redfield]

Thank you very much for having me. I enjoyed it.

[Podcast Host]

That was Dr. Robert Redfield, former CDC director and colleague of Dr. Anthony Fauci. And this has been a weekend episode of Morning Wire.

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