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- [00:00]
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- [00:15]
Host - Ben Shapiro
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Mint Mobile Legal Disclaimer
50% off regular price for new customers. Upfront payment required $45 for three months, $90 for six month or $180 for a 12 month plan. Taxes and fees. Extra speeds may slow after 50 gigabytes per month when network is busy see terms. As Iran's Islamic regime continues to crack down on dissent amid the anti government uprising, Christians in the country face even more scrutiny.
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Host - John Bickley
In this episode, we talk to a pastor who works with Iranian Christians in.
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Host - Ben Shapiro
Armenia who are forced to flee their homeland amid ongoing persecution.
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Host - John Bickley
I'm Daily Wire Executive editor John Bickley with Georgia Howe. This is a weekend edition of WainWire.
- [00:57]
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Host - John Bickley
Here to discuss the ongoing persecution of Iran's large Christian population is Jacob Pursley, a missionary and pastor of the International Bible Church of Armenia. Jacob, thank you so much for joining us.
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Jacob Pursley
Wow, it's a privilege to be here. Thank you.
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Host - John Bickley
So you minister in part to Iranian Christians, and can you give us some context? How did this happen? Where are you located in terms of your church and your ministry? And why are Iranians fleeing into Armenia in the first place?
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Jacob Pursley
Well, we have an English speaking international church in Yerevan, Armenia, and it's, it caters to all the internationals that come in. And what is amazing is that Armenia borders Iran. And so Iranian Christians that flee persecution come up to Armenia as the only free and democratic nation in the region. And so when they come up, they want to know what the Bible says, they want to be discipled. And so they come to our church and we baptize them. And so we have great ties and connections with the Christian community now within Armenia, but also in Iran.
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Host - John Bickley
Iran has an unbelievably rich history. Obviously one of the most ancient countries on the planet. Same with Armenia. Armenia, the first Christian country. Do you get. I have too many questions for you, but do you get a lot of support from the Armenian government in terms of freedom to worship and freedom to minister to Whoever you want, etc.
- [03:19]
Jacob Pursley
Yes, Armenia has freedom of religion. And so they are. It's the First Christian Nation, 301 AD so they can continue to allow that within their country. And that is what brings the Armenians up to, excuse me, the Iranians up to Armenia because they know that this is a Christian nation and they want to have freedom of religion, which they do not have in their own country. They're not even allowed to have a Bible in their own language. It's illegal. And conversion from Islam to Christianity in Iran is capital punishment, death. So it's a very risky thing to convert to Christianity in Iran. But we are seeing Iran is the country in the world. When you look at missions and the church growth, it's the fastest growing Christian nation in the world right now.
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Host - Ben Shapiro
Incredible. Does this create tensions between Armenia and Iran? I imagine it definitely does. And does that not complicate it for the Iranian government to knowingly have churches that have a lot of people from Iran in them?
- [04:19]
Jacob Pursley
Well, I can't answer from a political perspective because I'm working as a pastor, but I am sure that there are religious figures that are not happy about religious and Christian freedom. Now, I don't know how that's voiced or what's going on behind the scenes, but Armenia as a country allows for religious freedom no matter who that is. So we have a mosque in, in. In Yavan. We have a Jewish community, we have Yazidi community, Baha' I community, and. And everybody's worshiping freely with no persecution.
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Host - Ben Shapiro
The trade negotiations and the peace negotiations overseen by the Trump administration, or at least helped come into being by the Trump administration. How has that changed things on the Ground for you. Have you seen any effect so far?
- [05:06]
Jacob Pursley
The main change I would say is Iranians that are Christians feel like they have hope for the first time. They've been under great persecution and specifically with the uprising and protest in Iran against the Islamic regime, they believe and they've listened to Donald Trump, President Donald Trump, and he said that he would intervene if people were killed. And now we've had up to 60 to 80,000 civilian protesters murdered brutally by the Islamic regime. And so my Iranian Christian brothers and sisters are saying please help. I mean they're looking to the United States as a world leader to come in and stop this persecution.
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Host - Ben Shapiro
That's a really high number you just gave. And there's, you know, there's a lot of conflicting reports because we don't know. But that's what you're hearing. Oh yes, 80,000.
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Jacob Pursley
Oh no, 100%. Now there are some now facts coming out where just on one day hospitals In Tehran reported 1800 deaths. That was just in one day. And so we do are now getting some hard statistics on the death, but it's probably greater than that. And they are targeting civilians.
- [06:19]
Host - Ben Shapiro
There's people out there protesting the presence of J.D. vance in Armenia. That's symbolically, I think it probably means a lot right to that region. Have you seen renewed confidence that the, that the US has the back of those people who are fighting against tyranny in the region? Have you seen that effect?
- [06:41]
Jacob Pursley
So that's a good question. You know, Armenia has been really up until the prime minister Nikol Pashinyan, up until he came to power, it's really been under a Russian influence. And with the new prime minister, he's really done a lot to move away from not disconnecting from Russia, but moving away from that influence and trying to integrate with the West. And what I've seen now is that relationship is getting better with now JD Vance in the country of Armenia. It is sending us a clear signal that religious freedom is important, freedom and democracy is important. And it's giving hope to a lot of Christians that this connection and is now being made.
- [07:30]
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Host - John Bickley
I don't know if this is too.
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Host - Ben Shapiro
Complicated of a question to answer, but the, the flavor of Christianity in the.
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Host - John Bickley
Region, I mean, I imagine it's very diverse, very diverse backgrounds in terms of traditions, et cetera. How do you, how do you deal with that in terms of your ministries? How do you make it open enough that it's, you know, flexible enough in terms of traditions? What does that look like?
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Jacob Pursley
It's a great question. So the Armenian Apostolic Church was founded in 301 AD so it's the largest state church, longest going state church in the world, which we have great respect for. I mean missionaries came to Armenia. Actually some of them had Persian ancestry and the oldest coming back from Jesus's disciples Thaddeus and Bartholomew came to Armenia. So they are, there are brothers and sisters. I mean as Protestants or Catholics, we have one Jesus, one Bible, one faith, one baptism. And so I think what I've seen is I have great relationships within the Arminian Apostolic Church. We've worked together on projects. So I think if we're focusing on the majors, it's great. And specifically when you face persecution from other nations that are not friendly to Christianity, it gives us another reason to come together as one body.
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Host - John Bickley
Obviously the relationship between the US and Syria has been very complicated and particularly Armenia and Syria's relationship. What elements of your ministry bleed over into that? I mean, how much does Syria impact what you do?
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Jacob Pursley
So I've been doing ministry in Syria since 2005 when the Qamishli massacre took place when Bashar Al Assad's soldiers came up to massacre the Kurdish population. This is before isis. So I've been very involved in Syria, hoping that the Kurds would not find their hope necessarily in a politician or an army, but in Jesus Christ. I'm a missionary. That's most important for me. And unfortunately we've seen a lot of difficult things happen in the country of Syria up until now. And what I've seen is that there is a good relationship with Syria and Armenia based on Armenian population that has been native in Syria since the Armenian genocide. And they are. So there's, there's good relationships among the peoples because of there's Armenians in Syria and Armenians in Armenia. But it's really unfortunate what's happened to. Specifically my expertise is the Kurdish populations.
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Host - Ben Shapiro
How much outreach is there from Christian communities to the Kurdish population?
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Jacob Pursley
That is a very good question. Unfortunately, when you're under a Islamic regime, they have rules where you are not allowed to propagate your religion. And if you do, you can be communally punished. So, you know, wearing a public display of a cross in Iran, in other Islamic countries is illegal. So there's been a pressure and an oppression on ethnic Christian communities to really just survive. And if they do try to reach out in their communities, which they have now, that happened in Iran with a man named Haikov Sepion, and he was one of those Armenians within Iran that did share his faith, but he was also murdered for that. So if you're very active in sharing your faith, it can be very dangerous for you. And it is a miracle, though, that the ethnic Christians have survived this long, even under Islamic suppression.
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Host - Ben Shapiro
What we've witnessed over the last few years is Iran being systematically defanged by Israel and the US in ways that are rather incredible. A lot of their key militants that they used as their proxies almost eliminated, if not, you know, at least really weakened. Is there a sense of growing hope in the region in general that there can be a larger lasting peace? And particularly for the Christian population, is there a sense that this is a chance to grow in ways that we haven't seen before? You said Iran is the fastest growing in terms of percentage of Christians. Is there a region wide sense of that?
- [12:37]
Jacob Pursley
Well, when we're looking at the, when we're talking to the Christian populations, I think people are very hopeful for Iran at this moment. I mean, the book of Jeremiah, chapter 49 has a promise for Iran that God will restore its fortunes after it's been destroyed. It's really interesting prophecy. And so there's a lot of Christians that are looking at the Bible and they're looking at what's happening internally in Iran and they're seeing a move from Islam. So most people become first atheists. They're atheists from a Muslim background. And then when they hear about Jesus and actually get a hold of a Bible, which is illegal, then they're like, this is the truth. This is a God of love. And so that's why it's growing fast. And the one thing I would say, even if I'm talking to my Christian brothers and sisters, they say that they need help and they need help from other Western Christian powers to help to set them free. Kind of like a Moses set my people free. They need somebody that can come in. And I know they're praying and their hope is in the Lord. But they're also looking back to Donald Trump saying, you made this promise. We're being massacred. When are you going to come and help us? Because we're dying. So please come and help and fulfill your promise.
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Host - Ben Shapiro
Well, we really appreciate you coming on the show and everything that you do in that region. I'm sure that's a very hard job, but it seems like you love it. Thanks so much for coming on.
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Host - John Bickley
You're welcome.
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Jacob Pursley
Thank you so much.
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Host - Ben Shapiro
That was Jacob Pursley, a missionary and pastor of the International Bible Church of Armenia. This has been a weekend edition of rewire.