Has Therapy Culture Worked

Summary

Morning Wire Podcast Summary – "Has Therapy Culture Worked"
Date: July 18, 2026
Hosts: Georgia Howe, John Bickley (Daily Wire)
Guest: Jonathan Alpert, Author & Psychotherapist ("Therapy Nation")

---

Episode Overview

This episode examines the impact of "therapy culture" on American society. Georgia Howe interviews Jonathan Alpert, a psychotherapist and author of Therapy Nation: How America Got Hooked on Therapy and Why It's Left Us More Anxious and Divided. The discussion centers on whether the widespread embrace of therapy has made Americans healthier and happier, or if it has inadvertently contributed to greater anxiety, division, and dependency.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins and Concerns with Therapy Culture

• Jonathan Alpert’s Background & Motivation for the Book
  • Alpert recounts how his 2012 New York Times op-ed, “In Therapy Forever. Enough Already,” highlighted the problem of clients attending therapy for decades with little improvement.
  • He’s observed an increase in “therapy culture” permeating all corners of American life and is concerned it may be making people “weaker, sicker, and dividing our culture.”
  • Quote:

    "Since that op ed piece came out in 2012, the problem of therapy culture has just permeated every aspect of our society. And I think it's a real serious problem… my profession… is actually making people weaker, sicker, and also dividing our culture."
    — Jonathan Alpert (03:02)

2. Effective vs. Ineffective Therapy

• Definition of Effective Therapy:

  • Alpert argues effective therapy should empower clients to learn tools, gain skills, and ultimately improve—becoming less dependent on therapy over time.
  • In contrast, he criticizes “soundboard” therapy, where “venting” might bring short-term relief but leads to endless, costly sessions with no real progress.
  • Quote:

    "If someone's present into therapy for depression or anxiety, [it's about] actually giving them tips and tools on how to conquer those issues..."
    — Jonathan Alpert (03:41)

• Comparison With Other Professions:

  • He draws parallels: you wouldn’t keep going to a hairdresser or personal trainer if you didn’t see results—so why continue therapy without improvement?
  • Quote:

    "You wouldn't continue to go to a hairdresser if you weren't pleased with the style... So the big question is, why continue with a psychotherapist if you're not getting better and making gains in life?"
    — Jonathan Alpert (04:41)

3. Industry Incentives and Reluctance to Address the Problem

• Many therapists may not intentionally perpetuate dependency, but are also not motivated to challenge the status quo, perhaps due to financial incentives.
• There is little open industry discussion about these issues, with some professionals simply accepting the long-term “soundboard” model as normal.
• Quote:

  "I'm not so sure it's intentional... A lot of therapists just think, well, this is the way therapy is."
  — Jonathan Alpert (04:37)

4. "Danger Zone" Conversations and Widespread Censorship

• Alpert describes how societal polarization causes people to self-censor, even in therapist offices.
• Clients, especially in politically homogenous areas like New York, often "prepare” or “preface" their statements due to anxiety about the therapist’s reaction—reflecting deep distrust and fear of judgment.
• Quote:

  "A lot of people feel like they need to censor themselves... they're avoiding conversations because they feel like it's a psychological minefield."
  — Jonathan Alpert (07:55)

5. Political Division and Therapist Bias

• Alpert notes a worrying trend: some therapists refuse to see clients with differing political views, particularly Trump supporters. This, he claims, exacerbates division rather than healing it.

• Quote:

  "We have therapists who refuse to treat someone who voted for Trump... For me, I'll treat anyone. I don't care who you voted for. If someone's anxious or depressed, that's where the focus should be."
  — Jonathan Alpert (09:12)

• He likens this to a hypothetical where a doctor would refuse medical care based on political beliefs—underscoring the unprofessionalism of such an approach.

• This behavior is "very common," according to his experiences and professional networks.

• Quote:

  "They equate someone who voted for Trump as being a bad person or evil... they're not able to look at the person as a human who might be dealing with depression or anxiety."
  — Jonathan Alpert (09:57)

6. Therapy’s Role in Family and Social Division

• Alpert criticizes prominent mental health experts for publicly recommending people cut off family members over political differences.

• He calls such guidance “horrific advice,” and urges people to focus on what connects rather than divides them.

• Quote:

  "You don't tell someone to cut a person out just because you don't like their political beliefs... people need to get a life that's not consumed by politics."
  — Jonathan Alpert (10:50, 11:23)

• On the claim that Trump himself is the abnormal, divisive force, Alpert pushes back, arguing that many are simply caught in an “echo chamber.”

• Quote:

  "They were left short. They didn't know what to say. So if you just surround yourself with a certain echo chamber and that's all you hear... then of course you're going to start to believe that."
  — Jonathan Alpert (11:51)

7. What Listeners Can Learn from "Therapy Nation"

• Alpert’s book seeks to explain not just how therapy culture rose to prominence, but offers guidance on finding genuinely helpful therapy and avoiding the “cult of therapy” mindset.
• Quote:

  "In the book, Therapy Nation really looks at how we got to a place where therapy culture pretty much touches every corner of American life... really helping readers... find a therapist that can actually help them and how they can rid themselves of this cult of therapy."
  — Jonathan Alpert (12:42)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "The problem of therapy culture has just permeated every aspect of our society. And I think it's a real serious problem... my profession... is actually making people weaker, sicker, and also dividing our culture." (03:02)
• "People are so divided. We have therapists who refuse to treat someone who voted for Trump. And for me, I'll treat anyone. I don't care who you voted for." (09:12)
• "You don't tell someone to cut a person out just because you don't like their political beliefs... we need to look at what connects us..." (10:50)
• "We have therapy speak that is just omnipotent. It's everywhere and it's hard to avoid." (12:42)

---

Key Timestamps

• [01:44] Introduction to guest Jonathan Alpert and the "therapy nation" theme
• [02:05] Alpert recounts his therapy career, the 2012 op-ed, and the genesis of his book
• [03:34] Distinction between effective and ineffective therapy
• [04:36] Incentives and lack of progress in therapy practice
• [07:34] Discussion on societal self-censorship and “danger zone” conversations
• [09:03] Therapist bias and refusal of care due to political affiliations
• [10:39] The role of therapy in dividing families over politics
• [12:37] What the book Therapy Nation offers to readers

---

Tone and Style

The conversation is earnest, frank, and sometimes urgent—with Alpert asserting deep concern for both his profession and American society. He frequently challenges the norms of his field with direct comparisons and real anecdotes, while urging listeners to seek out authentic help and avoid herd mentality, both in therapy and in daily life.

---

For listeners interested in social trends, therapy, and the intersection of mental health with culture and politics, this episode provides a critical perspective on the unintended consequences of modern therapy culture.

Transcript

[Howard Mackler]

I'm Howard Mackler. I spent my career building companies that help businesses solve problems. Now I built super sure because I think business insurance is broken. Some brokers hand you a policy, collect their commission and disappear until renewal. Your business runs all year and so are the gaps and the risks for companies with 25 or more employees. Whether you're the owner, CFO or HR manager, super sure is built for you. We're licensed in all 50 states covering business, insurance and employee benefits. We with year round support for you and your team. You can go to supershore.com and use the Fine Print Facts tool which translates your current policy into plain English so you see what's covered and what's not. The business value calculator helps you estimate what your company is worth so you know what actually needs protecting. Go to super sure.com all your policies in one place. Go to super sure.com that's supersure.com you can thank me later.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Paid for by Super Sure Insurance Agency, llc, a licensed insurance agency.

[Jonathan Alpert]

We have therapists that act as sounding boards. People go in and vent and they feel better in the moment and they just are spinning their wheels for endlessly and they're not getting better.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Over the past few decades, therapy speak has become commonplace in American pop culture. But is the pervasiveness of therapy actually making us happier and healthier?

[Georgia Howe]

In today's episode, we speak to an author and psychotherapist about the issues in the therapy that are creating forever patients and failing to ever make them better. I'm Georgia Howe with Daily Wire executive editor John Bickley, and this is a weekend episode of Morning Wire.

[Narrator/Announcer]

The following is a previously recorded interview with the author of Therapy Nation, Jonathan Alpert.

[Georgia Howe]

Joining us to discuss these disturbing trends and his new book, Therapy Nation. How America got hooked on therapy and why it's left us more anxious and divided is psychotherapist and author Jonathan Alpert joined. Jonathan, thanks so much for coming on.

[Jonathan Alpert]

Thanks for having me, George. I appreciate it.

[Georgia Howe]

Tell us a little bit about your background and then how it led to this book.

[Jonathan Alpert]

Sure. So, Therapy Nation, to understand how the book came to be, we have to go back to 2012. And at the time I had been practicing for probably a dozen years as a psychotherapist. And I wrote a New York Times op ed piece called In Therapy Forever. Enough already. And in the piece I talked about how people were going to therapy forever. They were going for 5, 10, 15, 20 or even more years. They were in it for life. And I started to look around And I saw that these people were not improving. They were going in, they were venting. So in the moment, they would feel better, but this was costing them a fortune, and they weren't getting any better. And in my book, I argue that it's actually making people worse. And since that op ed piece came out in 2012, the problem of therapy culture has just permeated every aspect of our society. And I think it's a real serious problem. So I'm here to sound the alarm bells on my profession that I think is actually making people weaker, sicker, and also dividing our culture. We see therapists that are acting as social justice warriors. They won't treat someone who voted for Trump, for example. They're helping to divide up families instead of uniting families.

[Georgia Howe]

So presumably you make a distinction between effective therapy and ineffective therapy. What would you say is the distinction between the two? And what do you think are the main important things that an effective therapist has to do?

[Jonathan Alpert]

Yeah, and that's a great question. And my brand of therapy, and the one that I think is most beneficial to patients, of course, is to help them actually get better. So that would be therapy that's focused on the patient gaining some insight, maybe learning some tools, gaining some skills on how to challenge themselves and make improvements. So if someone's present into therapy for depression or anxiety, like, actually giving them tips and tools on how to conquer those issues, if it's work stress or relationship stress, much the same. Instead, though, we have therapists that act as sounding boards. People go in and vent and they feel better in the moment, and they just are spinning their wheels for endlessly and they're not getting better.

[Georgia Howe]

Now, do you find that your colleagues are also troubled by this, or. I mean, I understand there's also the perverse incentive that they get paid more if people continue coming back. So is this something that people in the therapy industry are discussing and concerned about, or is it kind of something that people don't want to talk about?

[Jonathan Alpert]

Yeah, and I'm not so sure it's intentional. I think people, a lot of therapists just think, well, this is the way therapy is. People come in, they tell me their problems, I listen, I give them some, a little bit of feedback, allow them to vent, and they feel better. But I'm arguing that that's not how therapy should be. You wouldn't continue to go to a hairdresser if you weren't pleased with the style that you were getting. Or most likely, you wouldn't continue with a fitness trainer if you weren't getting results. So the big question is, why continue with a psychotherapist if you're not getting better and gaining making gains in life?

[Advertisement Voice]

Imagine inviting about a dozen friends to pray in your home and your city, telling you to get the government's permission first. That's what happened to Daniel Grand, a devout Orthodox Jew in University Heights, Ohio, when he planned a small prayer meeting in his home. The city ordered him to get a permit, classified his house as a place of religious assembly, and even recruited his neighbors to spy on him and report any violations. To get the permit, Daniel would have to stop living in his own home, an impossible choice abandon his faith or give up his house. Yet when he filed a lawsuit to exercise his constitutional rights, federal courts told him he needed to complete the permitting process first. If you're thinking this can't be happening in America, you're not alone. That's why Alliance Defending Freedom and Oreck, Harrington and Sutcliffe are representing Daniel at the U.S. supreme Court. ADF never bills its clients for their defense, but that's only possible because of supporters like you. Right now, your gift will be doubled by a generous matching grant. Twice the impact to defend Daniel and every American's freedom to pray at home, but only while matching funds last. Go to ADF.com wire or or text Wire to 83848 to give today with Alliance Defending Freedom. Your gift defends religious freedom for all. Again, that's joinadf.com wire or text wire to 83848 every so often, a story comes along that reminds you how quickly life can change. It doesn't even have to be a tragedy. Sometimes it's a new baby, a marriage, buying a house, or taking care of aging parents. Those moments have a way of making you realize I should probably get my affairs in order to. The good news is it's a lot easier than most people think. Trust and Will offers affordable attorney designed estate plans online that you can create in as little as 30 minutes. This is one of those services that just makes sense. Their website is straightforward and easy to use, so you can create a will or trust from home, keep it updated as life changes, and securely share access with people that need it. If you'd like a little extra guidance, attorney support is available as an add on. It's one of those things that's easy to put off, but once it's done, it's a huge weight off your shoulders. It's trust and will Affordable estate plans Priceless peace of mind go to trustandwill.comwire and get 20% off. That's trustandwill.comwire and get your 20% off trustandwill.comwire now, you recently penned an opinion

[Georgia Howe]

piece for Daily Wire about how conversations are becoming potential danger zones. And you even mentioned that for some people, they feel that way even in the therapist office. So elaborate on that. Why are conversations becoming danger zones for people and making them feel anxious?

[Jonathan Alpert]

Yeah, absolutely. And the article really talked about how a lot of people feel like they need to censor themselves or even prepare the person they're speaking to about what they're about to say. Specifically, I talked about a white client who had to felt like he needed to preface what he was about to say by saying, I know as a white guy, I'm saying blah, blah, blah. So he just felt the need preface that. And this is part of the problem in our society. And it. And if I were the type of therapist that bought into that, it would, I would be contributing to division in our society. People don't need to censor themselves and they don't need to sugarcoat. They can just speak as a human, regardless of, of their color. But too, all too often, they're not. They're avoiding conversations because they feel like it's a psychological minefield. Uh, they're afraid of how the other person may react, so they're just avoiding altogether, or they're, they're sugarcoating or censoring themselves.

[Georgia Howe]

Now, in your practice in New York City, it's a pretty blue area. Is this a persistent pattern that you see of people even censoring themselves, even in your office? Or is this like, one in particular individual that you're thinking of when you kind of had this concept?

[Jonathan Alpert]

Uh, it's, it's been a pattern. But I think the bigger problem that we've seen play out over the past several years, maybe since Trump was first elected almost a decade ago, is, is just the polarization that's occurring in our country. People are so divided. We have therapists who refuse to treat someone who voted for Trump. And for me, I'll treat anyone. I don't care who you voted for. If someone's anxious or depressed, that's where the focus should be. But it really begs the question, like, are we in a position to really say we won't treat someone just because of their political beliefs? I don't think an ER doctor would turn someone away that was in a medical cris because of the way they voted, and we shouldn't either.

[Georgia Howe]

How common is that? I mean, is that something you've heard here and there or is that pretty widespread?

[Jonathan Alpert]

It's very common. I belong to some networking groups and I mean, the things that people post, how they're in, they don't know how to handle it. They don't know how to handle someone who maybe voted for Trump. The therapists themselves are in distress and they probably need good therapy because they're just, they're at a loss. They equate someone who voted for Trump as being a bad person or evil or they're bl. Police might be aligned with the extreme far right and they're not able to look at the person as, as a human who might be dealing with depression or anxiety or any host of issues that one might present to a therapist for.

[Georgia Howe]

Now, you also mentioned that therapy is driving families apart instead of trying to bring them together. What are you seeing that makes you make that observation?

[Jonathan Alpert]

This goes back to, to Trump and we had so called mental health experts on national TV telling their audiences, if you don't like the way your relative or family member voted, cut them out of, out of your life. You don't need to deal with that. And that's, in my view, that's just horrific advice. You don't tell someone to cut a person out just because you don't like their political beliefs. And that was happening dozens of times. And my advice is not to. We need to look above and beyond politics and any one political figure and we need to look at what connects us and not let four years or eight years define who we are as a person or who that other person is. So in short, people need to get a life that's not consumed by politics.

[Georgia Howe]

Sometimes you'll hear, as the retort is, they say it's not us that are abnormal, it's Trump that is uniquely abnormal and he's the one who's driving people apart. What would you say to that? Because that's usually what I would imagine some of these people would say in their own defense.

[Jonathan Alpert]

Well, and I've heard that too. And these people are looking at it through a very, very narrow lens. And perhaps they surround themselves in an echo chamber that just supports that narrow belief. I would see a lot of patients who thought that Trump was a Nazi. Trump was going to ship people off to a far away land who were US Citizens. Trump hates the gays and that sort of rhetoric. But then when I challenged these patients for evidence and proof of that, they were left short. They didn't know what to say. So if you just surround yourself with a certain echo chamber and that's all you hear. You know, Trump is bad, Trump is evil. Then of course, you're going to start to believe that.

[Georgia Howe]

Now, what can people expect to learn from your book? Is it going to help equip them to find a good therapist? Or what is your takeaway that you want people to have?

[Jonathan Alpert]

Yeah. In the book, Therapy Nation really looks at how we got to a place where therapy culture pretty much touches every corner of American life, from politics to Hollywood, of course, to social media and more intimate relations that we might have with a partner or a family member. You know, we have therapy speak that is just omnipotent. It's everywhere and it's hard to avoid. So really helping readers to understand how we got to that place and of course, how they can find a therapist that can actually help them and how they can rid themselves of this cult of therapy. In some ways, that's actually what it is.

[Georgia Howe]

Jonathan, thank you so much for coming on and telling us about your book.

[Jonathan Alpert]

Yeah, thank you very much, Georgia.

[Narrator/Announcer]

That was psychotherapist Jonathan Alpert, author of Therapy Nation, and this has been a weekend episode of Morningwire.