B (2:21)

So you're out with your new book and its title is pretty intriguing. The two FBIs. Let's start there. What is the significance of that title?

C (2:29)

So the significance is that I join the FBI with the intention of coming in to serve our fellow Americans and to protect the law and to uphold the constitutional oath that I made in a fair and unbiased manner. And I refer to that, the work I was attempting to do and my amazing colleagues as FBI1, and there are amazing patriots, warriors that came to serve. On the other hand, I discovered something that I refer to as FBI2. And those were the FBI agents, employees, staff who came in and used their law enforcement power to push their own political and social agendas. And again, I refer to them as FBI too. I refer to those that really ruined the reputation of the agency during my time there. Not only were some of them extremely political, but they were very. An approach of an arrogance. They thought they were untouchable. Some of them were even lazy. A lot of the different things that I saw at the agency that we are not proud of that I believe caused the downfall of the FBI. I refer to as FBI too. So the title is extremely significant because there really were two FBI's, especially at the time that I left. It was almost like an internal battle, somewhat of a civil war going on inside the FBI.

B (3:44)

Fascinating. When did you first begin to sense that the FBI was in fact changing in ways that so deeply concerned you?

C (3:52)

I joined the FBI in 2010. I'll never forget. I joined under the Obama administration. And I remember talking to people because regardless of how you feel about a president's political persuasion, the FBI is supposed to be apolitical, lady justice is supposed to be blind. So it really shouldn't matter who is in office. And so again, I joined. I can tell you, I was not someone that supported Obama or his administration or his policies, but I did support upholding the Constitution and protecting Americans. I was the witness of the 911 terrorist attacks and I really did. I just wanted to go back and serve my country. I first started noticing it under the Obama administration. Again, I served under three FBI, several FBI directors, three administrations. And it was, it was really under the Obama administration. I first kind of noticed it around 2015. One thing that I also an important element that really I believe was destructive at the FBI was the DEI movement. And I remember we were forced to do this implicit bias training under the Obama administration while I was working violent crime. And I talk about it in my book. Who has time for that when we're actually trying to take down violent criminals? And basically they were telling us that we were implicitly biased, we were born that way, and that we weren't, you know, equally enforcing the laws and, you know, discriminating against those of certain races or religions. And I just thought, that is just not true. I've never seen that in the time of my career at the FBI. And so that's one element that I noticed early on. But I would really say that it was July 5th of 2016 when James Comey came out and said that no reasonable prosecutor would charge Hillary Clinton for the mishandling of classified material. That was astonishing to us at the FBI. All of us remember exactly where we were during that press conference. And that's when I realized that the FBI had been politically weaponized.

B (5:42)

Wow. And that was, you know, as a really public moment. There was a lot of outcry from Republicans about that. So you're saying that within the FBI, this really did send shockwaves?

C (5:52)

Oh, absolutely, 100%. We all remember where we were. We were all very startled, frankly, astonished. I remember I was standing in my boss's office. I was on the number one ranked violent crime fugitive task force in the country. We were busy taking down violent criminals. And I remember standing with my colleague Andrew, and I talk about it in my book. And we're in our boss's office, and we saw this press conference, and we thought, what in the world just happened? This is not the role of the FBI director. In essence, he was making a prosecutorial decision after reading what sounded like the terms of an indictment. And then at the end, he just said, oh, you know, wrote, no reasonable prosecutor would charge Hillary Clinton. Oh, and we're going to give this to doj. We're just giving a recommendation. It was completely out of the FBI Director's lane to be doing that. It was as if James Comey forgot his role. You're no longer the U.S. attorney. You're actually the FBI director. Your job is not to go before the public and to make a big fuss about this. Our job is to gather the evidence and present it. But in the aftermath of all of that, I can tell you that originally, when I wrote the book, I even told my editor, I said, you know, there's a lot in there about Comey, because that's. That was a defining moment for myself and many others. And we spoke about it, and he said, you know, actually, let's leave it in there. We actually ended up even taking some of it out. But there's an entire chapter about James Comey, because that was the moment that it changed. And look at it 10, 11 years later. We're seeing exactly what was happening, exactly what we knew was happening inside the agency. Now all of America is seeing it front and center and again, Arctic frost, things of that sort. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

B (7:31)

You say this is the tip of the iceberg. I think a lot of people would be shocked by that, because this is about as bad as we've seen. Were there worse operations going on behind the scenes, or is this more about how pervasive this kind of political abuse of the Bureau is?

C (7:45)

Well, again, when I say it's the tip of the iceberg, I'm just saying that a lot of Americans are shocked. Oh, my goodness. I can't believe what we're seeing. Us at the FBI were like, yeah, we're not shocked at all. We're not shocked by anything that you're seeing, because when you were working there internally and seeing how things were going, nothing shocks you expect the unexpected. I hate to say that, but that's not really what we should expect from our number one premier law enforcement enforcement agency in the country and used to be known as the number one in the world. Again, what. What we found most alarming is that it almost seemed that there were rules for the. But not for me. And there was unequal enforcement of the law. And it really did seem to be straight down political lines. Lady justice is supposed to be blind. And ss, FBI agents and employees, you have the right to maintain your First Amendment rights. You have your right to remain, you know, you have your opinions, you can have your political persuasions. Whatever you choose to believe, you have that right to do that. But the moment that it starts interfering with your ability to do an impartial and fair investigation, that's when it's wrong. And that's when FBI, too, started creeping in. And as we saw specifically with the Comey incident and with them going after the Trump administration and at the time, the Trump campaign and spying on the campaign and using, you know, an illegitimate dossier to get information and to swear out FISA warrants. I mean, the list goes on and on, but they were basically abusing their power. And there were specific text messages that are now public that basically people on the very highest levels of FBI, too, were basically saying, this is an insurance policy against Trump not getting elected. What they, in essence did was they tried to take the attention off of Hillary Clinton and pivot over to the Trump campaign and say, hey, don't look over here, look over here. And then they created this whole thing, and it really was a Russia collusion hoax. Again, I don't care where one person stands on the political spectrum. The facts are the facts and that is exactly what happened. And it was destructive to the agency, destroyed the trust of the American people, and sadly, it destroyed the trust of the FBI agents internally and the FBI employees internally. So there were things like that that, you know, we just thought, this is not right, but who's going to stop this? And no one was stopping it.

B (10:05)

Now, of course, Trump wins the election against all odds in 2016, but we continue to see problems within the FBI. He removed Comey, but it took a while for some of those folks to be moved out of positions of power. I think you would probably describe those people as FBI2 members. What happened during the first Trump presidency with the FBI? What did you see?

C (10:25)

Okay, so again, James Comey was fired in May of 2017. Another moment we will never forget. He was in the Los Angeles field office. I think he was doing a field office visit in that area, and rightfully so. He was dismissed from the FBI. And so then we. We are hopeful. We're like, okay, look, when Comey originally came in and I detail it in my book, we originally, again, we're coming off of Robert Mueller. Then we come into James Comey, and initially we thought, oh, you know, he's going to be. I personally wish it had been a former FBI agent, because someone that's actually had the gun, the badge and the credentials and went through Quantico is very important to FBI agents. The FBI director that had been an agent was Louis Free. But again, we have Mueller a DOJ guy, Comey a DOJ guy. So then we're hopeful. Okay, let's see what this next director is going to be about. And lo and behold, it's Christopher Wray, another DOJ guy recommended by Governor Chris Christie. And Trump is taking the recommendation. Look, it's his first administration. He's new to the scene. He did not come from the DC in the Beltway area. And so he did his best to select an FBI director. But I can tell you that I think that Christopher Ray was. Was not a good director at all either. A very different style and approaching and his management style. Comey was out there always in front of the media, in front of the press. Ray was more quiet behind the scenes. But don't kid yourself. He was not a leader. He did not approach the job in the way that would have been best for the FBI to succeed. And unfortunately, a lot of the problems that the FBI have never been rooted out, they were never dealt with because it's, you know, it's difficult to root out FBI, too. And people think it's Just administration at the top and the leadership at the top on the seventh floor, which I do agree, that is really where a lot of the root of the problems are. But it also trickles down all the way to the individual field offices, even down to support staff. And so to root that out is difficult. It's complicated. And we all know, and I talk about it in my book, it's virtually impossible to get fired from the federal government. And so to try to root out FBI, too, is a daunting task. But I do believe under the Biden administration, they were emboldened and empowered. And Christopher Wray did us no favors because he just went along with what the administration was telling him to do while the problems persisted at the agency. And he said, you know, nothing's wrong here, nothing to see here. While internally, FBI one was like, hey, we've got major problems, but we can't speak up. When you're at the agency, you can't speak up, you can't speak to the media, and it's going to basically put a target on your back for your entire career. And so I finally made the decision. I said, you know what? This is not an agency that's headed in the right direction. I no longer recognize the work that was going on. It was so completely politically and socially justice, the social justice movements in the last administration under Biden, I started to feel like I worked for a social justice warrior club rather than a law enforcement agency. And I just didn't see any hopes of it getting any better because there were individuals that were trying to bring issues to the attention of the FBI director, which was then Christopher Wray, and he thought everything was going fantastic. And that was very concerning to many. They said, if you can't acknowledge that there's a problem, you have no chance of fixing it.

B (13:33)

All right, so you left. And the positive there, of course, is that you can now speak out about it. You can write a book about it. What have you seen since President Trump's return to office? It's not a long time, but a lot of things have changed. Do you see some hopeful signs for the FBI and the doj?

C (13:48)

I am one who always believes that good and light will win in the end. And so I have seen the worst of humanity. I was a witness to the 911 terrorist attacks. That's what originally led me to the FBI to apply in 2009 and to start at Quantico in 2010. I've seen the worst of the worst. I work violent crime. I have worked crimes against children. So Again, I understand and recognize that there is evil, there is bad out there. I've seen the worst of the political and social weaponization of the FBI. But I also can tell you that there are amazing people in FBI one who have silently, behind the scenes, they have been holding the line. And there are good people trying to do what's right. And I worked with them. I worked shoulder to shoulder with some amazing task force officers and FBI agents. My best friend, Special Agent Laura Schwarthenberger, was shot and killed in the line of duty under the Biden administration on February 2nd of 2021. I detail it in my book. She is a true hero. She has an honorable legacy, which we need to respect. And so I think it's important to make that differentiation that there are good people. And so, as the second Trump administration has been coming in, I think the key, and I've talked to Kash Patel, I'm like, look, the key right now is to build up. You want to build up FBI1, increase their morale, because their morale was basically bulldozed under the last administration under Christopher Wray. So he's got the balancing act of building up FBI1 while simultaneously taking down and obliterating FBI to rooting out the problems while building up the good. And so I do believe that they have made some drastic measures. I think, you know, it's a thankless job. I think it's a very difficult job. And I and very careful to criticize people, because until you've walked in someone's shoes, it's very easy to point the finger. But what I can tell you is he has taken steps right off the bat, dei, across the entire federal government. Goodbye. And that's a huge accomplishment by the Trump administration. We're talking in our military, in our law enforcement agencies, across the board. That is a huge win. I do appreciate that. I think that they have taken out a lot of the leadership at the FBI that was maybe, you know, not really doing the right thing for the right reasons. FBI, too, they're trying their best to kind of identify who is who, what's going on. And I think also the 1-6- misdemeanor obsession. I talk about that in my book. That really sucked up a lot of energy of the FBI and DOJ for the last four years under the Biden administration. That in and of itself being ended, that opens yourself up to. To getting back to fighting real terroristic threats, foreign terrorist organization groups, human trafficking, crimes against children, violent crime. I see them shifting the focus back to actually keeping Americans safe. And I think that's extremely important. But don't, don't forget the entire time there have been people behind the scenes in FBI one that have been working tirelessly. And that's what I'm saying. I'm fair, I'm honest, and I'm truthful. Let's give credit where credit is due and, and let's call it out where it needs to be called out.

B (16:55)

Well, as we saw with the attack in D.C. it's more important than ever to have the FBI operating at peak efficiency and working behind the scenes to prevent other tragedies like that. Nicole, thank you so much for joining us and great luck with this new book.

C (17:06)

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it and I hope y' all enjoy it.

B (17:10)

That was former FBI agent Nicole Parker talking about her new book, the Two FBIs. This has been a weekend edition of Morning Wire.

C (17:26)

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B (17:28)

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C (17:43)

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B (17:46)

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C (17:47)

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