Georgia Howe (2:55)

Joining us now to discuss the crisis in Nigeria is Daily Wire culture reporter Megan Basham. So Megan, let's start with the basics. What exactly does President Trump's CPC designation mean and why did he pull the trigger now?

Megan Basham (3:09)

Well, one of the ways that you can look at the CPC designation as sort of a scarlet letter for countries that are tolerating or engaging in severe violations of religious freedom. So I spoke with Congressman Riley Moore, who the president has specifically tasked with conducting a probe into this issue. And he told me that the designation essentially one of the strongest tools that the president can use in a situation like this under the International Religious Freedom Act.

Congressman Riley Moore (3:40)

So when that designation gets put in place, it unlocks and it's under the International Religious Freedom act, it unlocks 15 different types of levers the president can use that range from sanctions on individuals and organizations to cutting off international financial institutions, support of that country, cutting off foreign aid, restricting arms sales, security assistance, military equipment and training, which is one that I do want to highlight. We have been providing that to Nigeria now for years and years for them to combat this Islamic terrorist organizations operating in their country. Billions of dollars worth of arms sales have gone to Nigeria and we're not seeing the results bear out. So unlocking those different levers for the president allows him to be able to ra ratchet up the pressure on the Nigerian government to protect these Christians from the slaughter that they're facing right now.

Megan Basham (4:46)

Now as to why now, I would say one, because this is a situation that has been escalating over the last few years. Even though we've known that it's been going on, it has become progressively worse. And then two, I think the issue is that Nigeria continues to deny it. So what's important to know here, Georgia, is that Nigeria, which is Africa's most populated nation, is roughly split between Muslims and Christians. But Christians are something of a second class citizen and they have been plagued for years now by Islamic extremists like Boko Haram and Aiswap attacking them. So we're getting reports now of as many as 25,000 Christians killed in Nigeria in just the last four years. So that's more than any other country in the world combined. You have groups like Inter Society, which is A Nigerian Human Rights NGO telling us that just over 7,000 Christians have been killed between January and August of 2025 in Nigeria. So this makes the country the most dangerous in the world to be a Christian. And I spoke with Pastor Brad Brandon, who's the founder and CEO of Across Nigeria, that's a ministry that works on the ground to provide help to these persecuted Christians. And, and he says that when we're talking about these numbers, we're likely underestimating the problem.

Pastor Brad Brandon (6:03)

In fact, the numbers are coming in at over 50,000 killed since 2009. The UN just recently released an estimated 350,000 people that have been killed indirectly by the instability that's caused by groups like Boko Haram and isoa. So, absolutely, it's a culture of death. And the areas that we work in, it is very common for areas villages to be attack, burned, houses burned out, entire villages razed. In fact, it was just a few months ago in a community called Yalawatta where 250 Christians were killed in one night.

Megan Basham (6:43)

Now, a few days before Trump made this official announcement, he also posted about it on Truth Social. And I actually want to read this verbatim because it's quite something. So he said if the Nigerian government continues to allow the killing of Christians to the USA will immediately stop all aid and assistance to Nigeria and may very well go into that now disgraced country, guns a blazing. That's a direct quote. To completely wipe out the Islamic terrorists who are committing these horrible atrocities. I am hereby instructing our department of War to prepare for possible action. If we attack, it will be fast, vicious and sweet, just like the terrorist thugs attack our cherished Christians. Warning the Nigerian government better move fast. Now, that last part in all caps. So not mincing any words. And I think it's worth emphasizing that the first Trump administration also took this action on Nigeria. But when the Biden administration came in, they reversed it. They argued that while they there is violence against Christians in Nigeria, they didn't necessarily believe that it was religiously motivated. And so it was not religious persecution. And so that's also the narrative that you're tending to see from a lot of legacy media outlets. So what this feels like to me is that the president is using his bully pulpit to, in essence, push back on that denial.

Georgia Howe (8:08)

Now, I do want to talk about that denial that we've seen from some of the legacy media, the ap, the BBC in particular. Why are they downplaying or trying to change the narrative around this when there's a lot of evidence that it's happening.

Megan Basham (8:24)

Well, I think the main thing is that a lot of them are not on the ground. And so they are relying on official statements and reports from the Nigerian government. And the Nigerian government continues to deny that this is an issue. So they say that yes, there is Muslim led violence. Everybody agrees that that's happening. But they're questioning whether it's religiously motivated because leaders like the Nigerian information Minister, Mohamed Idris have said that such claims are misinformed and politically motivated. And instead they're blaming things like farmland disputes or pressures arising from climate change. But US Leaders like Ted Cruz have had some pretty sharp words about that.

Senator Ted Cruz (9:04)

The AP is behaving, that reporter is behaving like most leftists, which is the violence, the atrocities of radical Islamic terrorists are of no concern to them. And even worse, if the victims are Christians, then the AP has no interest whatsoever in covering it because they don't like Christians, they don't like Jews, they don't like capitalists, they don't like Americans. And that's how we get something like Comrade Mondame in New York City.

Megan Basham (9:33)

Now, Pastor Brandon, of course, has had a front row seat to what's actually happening on the ground in Nigeria. And he doesn't deny that these land disputes with Muslim tribesmen known as the Fulani are happening. But he said that those conflicts don't erase the religious violence that is also happening and that no one is denying is occurring. And even when you read that AP reporting, Georgia, they are saying that part of the reason that Muslims are being the recipients of this violence is because they're not Muslim enough for the extremists. So in any case, it's still clear that religion is a motivation here. And Pastor Brandon, who is on the ground in Nigeria frequently and has seen what's happening up close, says that yes, he doesn't deny that some of these disputes are over land, but that doesn't change the fact that this religious persecution is also happening. And he doesn't hesitate to call it a genocide.

Pastor Brad Brandon (10:28)

So there is a fair amount of Muslim on Muslim violence, but it's disproportionate when you're looking at the Muslim on Chris Christian violence. Certainly Christians are being targeted all throughout northern Nigeria specifically. And in northern Nigeria, let's not forget Christians are a second class citizen. Oftentimes they have trouble even buying food at the market or getting medical care or education for their children simply because they're Christians. And, and Also there's over 3, 3.5 million people in IDP camps Internally Displaced Persons camps, 80% of those are Christians. And they're there because their homes and their villages have been destroyed. So to me, when somebody denies that this is a genocide or Christians are being targeted, like the AP recently, Al Jazeera put out something as well. And the Nigerian government, of course, is denying that also, if it wasn't so serious and horrific, it would be laughable what they're saying.

Megan Basham (11:30)

And he then added that pretty much any genocide we have seen starts out with countries trying to blame other factors.

Pastor Brad Brandon (11:38)

When you look back at the Holocaust, we still have Holocaust deniers to this day denying that it ever even happened. You look at the Cambodian genocide or the Rwandan genocide, while they were happening, people were denying that it was even going on. So this is nothing new. When genocides happen, there's always people who are going to try to cover it up so that they can operate under darkness.

Megan Basham (12:01)

Now, to go along with that, Congressman Moore told me that the ratio of Christians to non Christians when we're looking at deaths is five to one. And he says that the Nigerian government's failure to act, even when they've had warning of pending attacks, is what's to blame here.

Congressman Riley Moore (12:16)

A great example of that indifference was highlighted just a few weeks ago, where a pastor raised the red flag and said, we are in imminent danger. We are going to be attacked by the Fulanis here in the Middle Belt region. We need help. The federal government of Nigeria panned that as fake news and said, no, this is overblown. That's not going to happen. Within 24 hours, that pastor and 20 of his congregants were murdered. So they are ignoring what's going on, and they're ignoring it to their own detriment, because now it is on President Trump's radar, and he does not make idle threats or statements about issues like.

Megan Basham (12:56)

This to go along with President Trump's actions. Moore is also now pushing for a House resolution condemning the persecutions of Christians in Nigeria. And Senator Cruz last month introduced a bill in the Senate called the Nigeria Religious Freedom Accountability act of 2025.

Senator Ted Cruz (13:13)

My bill does several things. One of the things it would do is direct the State Department to do what President Trump just did, which is designate Nigeria as a country of particular concern. But beyond that, the bill also goes specifically to direct the State Department to impose sanctions on the local, the provincial officials that are complicit in these atrocities that has not yet been carried out. I'm hopeful the Trump administration will do so, but it's part of the way you leverage Change is that you impose. The United States has enormous leverage, both diplomatic leverage and economic leverage. And there's a reason that when I began calling out Nigeria for this mass murder of Christians, you had Nigerian politicians across the spectrum in Nigeria trying to argue against it because they are very, very afraid of the United States using our leverage to force them to change.

Megan Basham (14:08)

So really what we're seeing is a lot of action on this issue from various branches of government.

Georgia Howe (14:13)

Now, is this just the US or are there other nations that are joining in condemning this persecution?

Megan Basham (14:18)

So that is definitely a complicated question. And the big reason for that is China. So something to stress here is that Nigeria also happens to be Africa's largest economy and its largest oil producer. So in recent years, the country has increased its economic ties with China. It has done arms deals with Beijing, for example. And the CCP has also given Nigeria investments and loans trying to solidify that relationship. So China right now is warning the US not to interfere in Nigeria. During a press conference on Tuesday, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Mao Ning said this. China firmly supports the Nigerian government in leading its people on a development path that fits Nigeria's national realities. So Moore told me what that essentially means is that China's interests are all over Africa, so they're concerned about their trade and infrastructure deals being disrupted here.

Congressman Riley Moore (15:13)

For them, the status quo is great. They don't care if there's Islamic terrorists running any of these countries. It wouldn't matter to them one bit as long as they're able to extract the rare earth minerals that they want, which they basically, in other countries in Africa, DRC in particular, been running essentially slave labor camps down there to extract different rare earth minerals like lithium and things like that. So for them, they don't really care about the mass killing. They just don't want the United States involved in that because they think it infringes upon their ability to extract as many resources as humanly possible from Africa.

Megan Basham (15:51)

Now, that said, Moore stresses that China's actions and warnings are not going to stop the US from acting.

Congressman Riley Moore (15:57)

We're not going to let the Chinese dictate US Foreign policy to us, particularly coming from a country who has been locking up Christians in their own country, who has subjugated ethnic minorities to concentration camps. Talking about the Uyghurs. We're not going to be lectured to by a country like that.

Megan Basham (16:16)

Now, as we talk about the eu, they have mostly been quiet here. A spokesman did say after Trump's announcement that the EU reaffirms its commitment to freedom of religion and belief, but they are maintaining that there are many factors behind the violence here. So once again, kind of picking up the Nigerian government's talking points. And they say that Islamic violence and religious faith is only one of them. We are, however, seeing some response out of the UK So there, a couple of different members of Parliament have been pushing to get more of a statement out and they are asking for a fact finding mission into Nigeria. So some possible solidarity there.

Georgia Howe (16:54)

Now, how about from Nigerian Christians themselves? Do we have any reporting from the ground from people who are actually experiencing this?

Megan Basham (17:02)

Yes, you know, and I think that's an important question, Georgia, because we are now in this era of social media, starting to hear from the Nigerian Christians themselves. You're seeing videos circulating on social media of priests carrying guns because they feel that they need them in order to protect their flock from potential Islamic violence. You're also seeing pastors pleading with the United States for help.

President Donald Trump (17:25)

We are dying to be outside performing burial every day. And they expect unto silence. Now, it's an order Nigerian government cannot openly and deny. There is no massacre, There is no genocide of Christians in Nigeria. And look at it today. Is there any Muslim here? United Nations. I know you're watching me. American Senate. You are watching what I'm doing. I'm saying here. Special advisor to Trump now, please tell Trump to save our life in Nigeria. They are killing Christians in Nigeria. Massacre Christian if they say they kill Muslims. By whom? By Muslims.

Megan Basham (18:26)

Now, Pastor Brandon tells me that part of the reason you're hearing these direct appeals to Trump and the US Government is because for the most part, Western churches have not been very aware of this issue. So they haven't been very outspoken about it.

Pastor Brad Brandon (18:41)

That's because for the past 15 years this has been going on and the church in the west and particularly the, particularly the American church, has really been eerily silent on this. It's only within the last three or four months that this has floated to the top and people have started to talk about it. We've been working in Northern Nigeria for 10 years, crying from the mountaintops that this has been going on and gotten very little response.

Megan Basham (19:08)

And then Pastor Brandon also shared a personal story with me that really highlights the suffering and the tragedy really that we're seeing on the ground there.

Pastor Brad Brandon (19:16)

In Nigeria, back in 2021, there were 5,191 Christians that were killed. And that number is pretty close to my heart because that one, 5191, was a pastor friend of mine. He actually worked for our ministry for a while as a Scout, getting us into areas where we could help Muslim communities and help persecuted Christians. We were doing a two week tour through northern Nigeria, helping Christians and helping Muslim communities. And we dropped him off at his house one evening and Muslim extremists broke into his compound. They burned his church to the ground, they burned his house to the ground, and they hacked him to death in his bed. I know that that's gruesome, but that's a reality in northern Nigeria. And his name was Pastor Shibu. And every September is the anniversary of his death. And as an organization across Nigeria, we honor him. But I'll tell you, there's been many of people who are working for us or have worked for us that have been killed. We've had friends of ours killed. We're constantly in and out of villages where hundreds of Christians have been massacred. In fact, I told you about Yalawatta. That was a place where Muslims lit houses on fire and stood outside and shot women and children as they tried to escape the flames.

Megan Basham (20:39)

So he expressed that he's very pleased to see the US Government speaking out on the issue, but he's also urging Christians in the United States to. To be in prayer on this. And he asks for them to, you know, consider raising their voices now and also to consider looking to ministries like his to see how they might help.

Georgia Howe (20:57)

Well, I know John and I felt it was important for us to cover this, and we're going to continue tracking as this moves through Congress. Meghan, thanks for reporting.

Megan Basham (21:03)

My pleasure.

Georgia Howe (21:05)

That was Daily Wire culture reporter Megan Basham, and this has been a weekend edition of Morning Wire.