Morning Wire Podcast Summary
Episode: The Empathy Debate: Virtue or Vice?
Release Date: July 12, 2025
Host: Georgia Howe
Guest: Dr. Joe Rigney, Author of The Sin of Compassion and Its Counterfeit
Introduction
In this compelling episode of Morning Wire, host Georgia Howe engages in a thought-provoking discussion with Dr. Joe Rigney, Fellow of Theology at New St. Andrews College and pastor at Christchurch in Moscow, Idaho. The conversation centers around Rigney's controversial new book, The Sin of Compassion and Its Counterfeit, which examines the complexities and potential dangers of empathy in modern society.
Overview of The Sin of Compassion and Its Counterfeit
Dr. Joe Rigney introduces the central thesis of his book, arguing that the evolution of compassion into empathy over the past five decades has led to a distortion of this noble virtue. He posits that untethered empathy—detached from truth and goodness—can result in emotional manipulation and support for harmful ideologies.
Joe Rigney [01:21]: "The attempted upgrade of compassion to empathy... has been a corruption of a noble virtue... which leads to emotional manipulation, emotional blackmail, and various ways that people are manipulated into supporting... harmful, destructive and evil... in the name of empathy or compassion."
Distinguishing Compassion from Empathy
Rigney delineates the difference between compassion and empathy, emphasizing that while compassion involves a balanced approach to helping others, empathy often demands complete immersion in another's feelings, potentially leading to loss of perspective.
Joe Rigney [02:18]: "Compassion wants to reach in to help them, but remain tethered to the shore... Whereas the demand of empathy is jump in with both feet... you need to totally immerse yourselves in my feelings."
He further clarifies that untethered empathy allows passions and emotions to override reality and truth, making actions driven by immediate feelings rather than informed judgments.
The Controversial Title: Is Empathy a Sin?
Addressing the provocative nature of his book's title, Rigney explains that he uses "sin" metaphorically to describe forms of empathy that become destructive when disconnected from truth and goodness.
Joe Rigney [03:17]: "There are forms of empathy that are sinful, destructive and harmful... similar to what Ali Beth means by toxic empathy."
He emphasizes that his critique is not against genuine compassion but against a version of empathy that leads to harmful outcomes by prioritizing emotions over objective reality.
Concept of Steering
Rigney introduces the concept of "steering," where individuals' natural compassion is exploited to influence them towards actions they might otherwise avoid. He provides a poignant example related to the medical establishment's approach to gender ideology in children.
Joe Rigney [04:27]: "When the medical establishment says to a parent... 'Would you rather have a dead son or a live daughter?'... they're... steering us by our natural affection... to do something destructive to the child."
This example illustrates how empathy can be manipulated to endorse harmful policies or practices.
Empathy in Social Movements
The discussion shifts to how empathy operates within broader social movements. Rigney argues that progressive groups have co-opted compassion as a virtue, pressuring conservatives to conform by framing opposition as a lack of empathy.
Joe Rigney [05:43]: "The left has... made people think that they are the compassionate ones... if you don't support these issues... then you're not being a compassionate person."
He contends that this dynamic forces conservatives to either compromise their principles or risk being labeled as unempathetic, thereby facilitating the infiltration of progressive ideology into conservative institutions.
Criticism: Female-Coded Empathy
Addressing critiques that his stance on empathy may undermine traditionally female-coded virtues, Rigney defends his position by distinguishing between healthy compassion and manipulative empathy.
Joe Rigney [07:31]: "Women are by nature the more empathetic and compassionate sex... but in certain roles, like guarding church doctrine... empathy can become a liability."
He argues that in specific contexts, especially within leadership roles that require upholding certain truths, excessive empathy may hinder necessary decisions.
Media Response to Rigney's Arguments
Rigney reflects on the media's reaction to his book, noting that while some outlets have accurately represented his arguments, many have resorted to caricatures that misrepresent his stance.
Joe Rigney [11:00]: "They will describe the argument accurately... but then very quickly pivot and adopt a caricature that says I want to kick kittens and puppies..."
He expresses that progressive media outlets recognize the threat posed by critiques of empathy but often dismiss his arguments to maintain their broader agenda.
Growing Awareness Among Conservatives
Discussing the broader conservative movement, Rigney observes a rising awareness of how empathy can be manipulated. He cites examples of conservative figures resisting emotional manipulation to uphold policies they believe are beneficial.
Joe Rigney [11:56]: "Conservatives... recognize the ways that we've been manipulated by our soft heartedness... the solution is not to abandon the soft heartedness, but to have a clear mindedness."
He advocates for a balanced approach where compassion is guided by truth and goodness, aligning with Christian principles.
Practical Advice for Navigating Conversations on Empathy
In response to listeners' needs, Rigney offers pragmatic strategies for engaging in discussions where empathy is a contentious issue. He emphasizes clarity over appeasement and encourages fostering environments where courageous expression of truth is valued.
Joe Rigney [14:22]: "Focus on your goal in a conversation... make the first goal to bring clarity to the situation... encourage those who already agree with you."
He advises maintaining convictions and being unapologetic about one's beliefs to empower both oneself and others in upholding truth and goodness.
Conclusion and Further Information
As the episode wraps up, Rigney provides information on where listeners can access his book and follow his work.
Joe Rigney [16:10]: "You can go to senofempathy.com and get it there or anywhere books are sold."
Georgia Howe thanks Dr. Rigney for his insights, concluding a thought-provoking episode that challenges listeners to reconsider the role of empathy in their lives and society.
Where to Find Dr. Joe Rigney and His Book:
- Website: senofempathy.com
- Available On: Major book retailers
Thank you for tuning into this special weekend edition of Morning Wire. Stay informed and thoughtful on the issues that matter.