The Recycling Scam We All Believe In

Summary

Morning Wire: "The Recycling Scam We All Believe In"
Episode Date: June 6, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of Morning Wire interrogates the real efficacy—and the mythos—of plastic recycling in America, sparked by recent investigations revealing that iconic "recyclable" items like Starbucks’ cold drink cups are seldom, if ever, actually recycled. Hosts Georgia Howe and John Bickley welcome investigative journalist Ken LaCourt to discuss the psychological, industrial, and environmental complexities underpinning America's recycling system. The conversation uncovers substantial disconnects between public perception and recycling realities, especially with plastics, and questions whether much of the country’s recycling effort is genuinely productive or simply “performative environmentalism.”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Starbucks Cup Recycling Investigation

[01:02–01:37]

• Trigger for the episode: Environmental group Beyond Plastics exposed Starbucks’ claim that its cold cups are “widely recyclable.”
• Method: Researchers placed Bluetooth trackers in Starbucks cups and monitored their final destinations.
• Finding: Not a single cup ended up in a recycling facility; most were landfilled, incinerated, or stopped at sorting centers.

“After tracking them for months, they say not a single cup ended up in an actual recycling facility.”
— Morning Wire Host [01:18]

2. The "Performance" of Modern Environmentalism

[04:04–05:17]

• Ken LaCourt’s reaction: Not surprised by the findings; sees much of today’s environmentalism as “performative”—about feeling good, not necessarily doing good.
• Even those who know recycling plastics is futile still feel bad about throwing them in the trash due to ingrained guilt.

“So much about the environment and environmentalism today, you know, it's really about performative values. It's really about feeling good rather than doing good.”
— Ken LaCourt [04:12]

• Conservative perspective: Wants a clean environment, but skeptical of the often misleading or “nonsensical” practices promoted in the name of environmentalism.

3. The Roots of Recycling Guilt

[05:17–07:04]

• Cultural conditioning: Americans are taught waste is bad; there's an added, but false, anxiety that the country is running out of landfill space.
• Anecdote: Media hype over a wandering New York trash barge in the late ‘70s/early ‘80s fueled “no room for trash” fears.
• Reality: Modern landfills are technological marvels, efficiently managed and safe for the environment.

“America handles its trash in a wonderful way... When you actually look at some of these landfills, they're kind of modern marvels.”
— Ken LaCourt [06:06]

4. The Realities—and Limits—of Plastic Recycling

[07:04–08:52]

• Most plastics are not recycled: Only a small minority of plastic types (typically those marked #1 or #2) can be recycled; others contaminate the process.
• Misleading labeling: The recycling arrows symbol isn’t regulated, and the presence of the symbol doesn’t guarantee recyclability.
• Origins of the “plastic recycling myth”: Born from a plastics industry front group to boost consumer confidence and normalize plastic use.
• Wasteful sorting: Mixed plastics require human and machine sorting; getting it wrong “ruins the batch.”

“When people call it a scam, they're not wrong... It's a scam when it's having people do things, spend money, spend resources to say that you're accomplishing something that you're not accomplishing.”
— Ken LaCourt [08:12]

5. The Overseas Export of "Recyclables"

[08:52–09:36]

• What happens after collection: The U.S. ships much of its plastic waste to countries like Malaysia.
• Outcomes: Plastics are buried, burned, or lost—sometimes polluting oceans.
• Irony: The export often allows for environmentally damaging disposal practices that would be illegal in the U.S.

“You’re shipping it across the world… because you know that they can do things over there that you go to jail doing in the United States.”
— Ken LaCourt [09:06]

6. Rethinking Landfills: Not the Villains We Imagine

[09:36–10:36]

• Media-driven fear: Landfills' negative reputation arose largely from environmental campaigns in the 1970s.
• Ken’s findings: American landfills are efficient, safe, and not running out of space; completed sites are often repurposed as parks.

“The reality is landfills in America, they're pretty good things... we've got a lot of land still in this world and we're not running out of it.”
— Ken LaCourt [09:54]

7. Intellectual Knowledge vs. Emotional Habit

[10:36–11:22]

• Personal struggle: Even after learning that most plastic recycling is pointless, Ken still sometimes recycles due to habit and the emotional satisfaction it brings.
• The act of recycling makes people “feel like a good person”—even knowing it has little practical effect.

“That was the hardest part, was now having the intellectual knowledge that this ain't doing any good and I should just throw it in the trash can. And despite everything I said, I will still put some things in my recycling bin just cause it makes me feel better.”
— Ken LaCourt [10:49]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On environmentalism as performance:
  “It's really about feeling good rather than doing good.”
  — Ken LaCourt [04:14]

• On the origins of the recycling myth:
  “The plastics industry came up with a front organization that was an environmental organization telling you to recycle this. And they built that into the American consciousness.”
  — Ken LaCourt [07:43]

• On the false guilt of throwing away trash:
  “The reality is America handles its trash in a wonderful way… The space isn’t all that crazy. One study said by the year 3000, if you got a place that was 100 yards deep, you could have a 35 mile square that could hold every piece of trash between now and the year 3000 in one area.”
  — Ken LaCourt [06:16]

• On exporting trash:
  “It’s making money for people and it’s making people feel better because... when you send it off to a third world country and they do whatever the heck they're going to do with it, it's not good.”
  — Ken LaCourt [09:28]

• On emotional recycling:
  “You feel good when you recycle something, don't you? I mean you walk up to those blue bins and you put something in and you're like, I didn't hurt anybody today. I'm a good person.”
  — Ken LaCourt [10:43]

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Conclusion & Takeaways

The episode exposes the uncomfortable truth that much of America’s plastic recycling—praised by both corporations and consumers—may be more about marketing and emotional reassurance than actual environmental benefit. While it’s important to work toward a clean environment, Ken LaCourt argues Americans have been sold a false narrative on plastics: most end up in landfills—or worse, are shipped abroad for improper disposal. Landfills, often unfairly vilified, are portrayed here as efficient and comparatively benign.

By unpacking the disconnect between good intentions and actual outcomes, the conversation challenges listeners to think critically about where their recycling goes and why they feel compelled to recycle in the first place.

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Key Segments

• Starbucks Cup Investigation: [01:02–01:37]
• Performative Environmentalism: [04:04–05:17]
• Landfill Reality vs. Guilt: [05:17–07:04]
• Plastics Recycling Breakdown: [07:04–08:52]
• Exporting Trash: [08:52–09:36]
• Landfill Reputation & Reality: [09:36–10:36]
• Emotional Habits vs. Intellectual Knowledge: [10:36–11:22]

Transcript

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[Georgia Howe]

Starbucks recently promoted its cold drink cups as widely recyclable, but an investigation by the environmental group Beyond Plastics decided to test that claim.

[Morning Wire Host]

Researchers place Bluetooth trackers inside dozens of Starbucks cups and drop them into recycling bins at stores across the country. After tracking them for months, they say not a single cup ended up in an actual recycling facility.

[Georgia Howe]

Instead, many wound up in landfills, incinerators, or sorting centers, where recycling often stops. The report is fueling a bigger question. Is America's recycling system delivering what people think it is?

[Morning Wire Host]

Our guest today recently investigated what exactly happens to plastic after it leaves your curbside bin. The deeper you look, the more you found that the story Americans have been told about recycling may be missing some important details.

[Georgia Howe]

I'm Georgia Howe with Daily Wire executive editor John Bickley, and this is a weekend episode of Morning Wire.

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[Georgia Howe]

Joining us now is Ken LaCourt, investigative journalist, former Fox News executive, and creator of the YouTube channel Elephants in Rooms. Ken, thanks for coming on.

[Ken LaCourt]

Thanks for having me.

[Georgia Howe]

Now, when you see a story like this Starbucks investigation where something is marketed as recyclable but apparently isn't being recycled, what's your reaction?

[Ken LaCourt]

Well, it's not terribly surprising because so much about the environment and environmentalism today, you know, it's really about performative values. It's really about feeling good rather than doing good. I've researched deeply into the recycling of plastics and the reality is some things you can recycle. Great. In the world, the plastics turns out to be a nightmare. It'd be better if we all threw them away. But even after I finished doing that research and producing a video on it, I still feel bad about throwing plastic away. You just, you feel guilty on it. So look, conservatives especially, they need to balance two competing notions in their head. One is we want the environment to be clean. I want clean air for my kids and clean water and streets and all of that. On the other hand, so much of environmentalism is complete and utter nonsense that you find yourself rolling your eyes at people who are ostensibly trying to reach the same goal that I'm trying to reach in life and that I think everybody is trying to reach in our society. So, yeah, it's just not surprising at all.

[Georgia Howe]

Now, why do so many people, including people who know the facts, still feel guilty throwing plastic in the trash?

[Ken LaCourt]

Look, we've grown up being told that throwing things away is bad. And you know, to an extent, when you throw something that has not lost its full value, it's not only resources to the planet, but it's primarily resources to humans. Humans made things, they put effort into things. And for us to toss those away before using up its full value, there's a little bit of guilt in that. And the other thing is the wrong notion that America and first world countries don't have places to put their trash. Now, a lot of this stemmed from, I think it was the late 70s, might have been a little later than that. There was a trash barge that had left New York City and it couldn't find its final destination. And it was, it was a little barge with, you know, tons and tons of trash. And it was kind of like one of those big media stories of the day where they tracked where it was. And it sparked a lot of feeling that we don't have places to throw things away. And the reality is America handles its trash in a wonderful way. I don't know if you've ever looked into how huge both recycling, but also just landfills work. I mean, they fill up areas. The space isn't all that crazy. One study said by the year 3000, if you got a place that was 100 yards deep, you could have a 35 mile square that could hold every piece of trash between now and the year 3000 in one area. And when you actually look at some of these landfills, they're kind of modern marvels. They have seepage things underneath them. So, so things don't get into the water supply. They lay pipeline that, that will get the methane from the trash as it's decomposing. And that actually powers the vehicles that pile the trash on it and the backhoes that take care of those things. So I think that's where the guilt is, is, you know, you who likes wasting stuff? Nobody should.

[Georgia Howe]

Now, your reporting makes a distinction between recycling in general and plastic recycling specifically. So why is plastic such a different story?

[Ken LaCourt]

So a lot of. Look, a lot of things you can recycle, Great. There's a minority of plastics that you can. Things like glass. It's not a crazy expensive thing. Cans, certainly. Plastic is such a bad example of recycling. When people call it a scam, they're not wrong. It popped up when literally the plastics industry came up with a front organization that was an environmental organization telling you to recycle this. And they built that into the American consciousness. And, you know, another part of it is the recycling arrows. That's not a copyrighted symbol. So that can mean anything people want it to mean. And when you see that it isn't saying that this is recyclable, there's a number under that, and it's like from one to seven or eight. And that number says, can it be recycled or can it not be? And most places can only recycle a 1 or a 2 with plastics. Most of the types of plastics, you just can't recycle. And they have to also sort them carefully because if you get in the minority of plastics, you can recycle and mix that in with the other stuff. It's like, you know, make it a cake with. With the wrong ingredients, and it screws everything up. So they need to literally have humans and machines going in there, separating all this stuff. It's all kind of a. Yeah, it's a scam. It's a scam. When it's having people do things, spend money, spend resources to. To say that you're accomplishing something that you're not accomplishing. That's really the best word to use for it. And that's different than saying everybody involved in that, in that process is bad in any way, shape, or form. I mean, you know, they are trying to help the environment. They're separating out the good plastics from the bad plastics. They're. They're individually doing good things in a macro way that turns out that it's a wasteful process.

[Georgia Howe]

Now, when Americans put plastic in a recycling bin, what often happens to it after it leaves the United States?

[Ken LaCourt]

Yeah, yeah. We send it off to countries like Malaysia, and they either bury it in their backyard, they burn it, which really isn't the ideal thing, or, you know, somehow it ends up in the oceans and bad places. The United States used to export a huge amount of things to be recycled. I mean, imagine that you're. You're shipping it across the world too. And then because you know that they can do things over there that you go to jail doing in the United States. So that's all one of those, gee, this, this isn't helping the earth. It's just making, it's making money for people and it's making people feel better because. Because when you send it off to a third world country and they do whatever the heck they're going to do with it, it's not good.

[Georgia Howe]

Now one of the more surprising arguments you make is that modern landfills aren't the boogeyman environmental disaster that many people are imagining. Why do you say that?

[Ken LaCourt]

Part of that was a media hype as the, as the environmental movement was really getting going in the, in the late 60s, early 70s. And look, the environmental movement has done some great things. The reality is landfills in America, they're pretty good things. One of the biggest landfills we have in Southern California is in Hacienda Heights. And the efficiency that they had working with that, they basically got two mountains and they filled up the area between it. And when they were done with that, they had a beautiful looking park in areas. It's like, you know, you can't build on it because it's fill and it sinks at different levels. But we've got a lot of land still in this world and we're not running out of it. And the amount of trash that we throw away isn't bad. We're not Haiti where we just dump it on the side of the road. They are not terrible things for our environment. We're not obnoxious consumers no matter what people say.

[Georgia Howe]

Now after all this research you did for this project, what changed most about the way you personally think about your recycling?

[Ken LaCourt]

The biggest thing for me was the intellectual versus emotional issue that I've been recycling. You feel good when you recycle something, don't you? I mean you walk up to those blue bins and you put something in and you're like, I didn't hurt anybody today. I'm a good person. And that was the hardest part, was now having the intellectual knowledge that this ain't doing any good and I should just throw it in the trash can. And despite everything I said, I will still put some things in my recycling bin just cause it makes me feel better. So that is the trickiest. To me, that was the trickiest thing that I learned or maybe that I didn't learn even though I knew.

[Georgia Howe]

Well, Ken, this is disappointing news for a lot of people to hear, but probably important to have transparency around the issue. Thank you so much for coming on.

[Ken LaCourt]

Thank you. Good to be here.

[Morning Wire Host]

That was investigative journalist Ken lacourt. And this has been a Weekend edition of MORNING Wire.