The View From Pod Force One with Miranda Devine

Summary

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Morning Wire: “The View From Pod Force One with Miranda Devine”

Date: November 23, 2025
Host: John Bickley (with Georgia Howe)
Guest: Miranda Devine, New York Post columnist and host of Pod Force One

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the inner workings of Donald Trump’s second term through the lens of Miranda Devine, host of the podcast Pod Force One. The conversation explores the personalities and dynamics within the Trump White House, the evolution of Trump's leadership style, the media’s shifting tone in response to a landmark peace deal, and the administration's major policy challenges and strategic priorities going forward.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Launch & Concept of "Pod Force One"

[04:15]

• Miranda Devine introduces Pod Force One as a behind-the-scenes diary of Trump’s second presidency, providing “off the daily news pace” interviews that explore what makes Trump tick and offering insights not usually caught by mainstream coverage.
• Quote:

  “It was really Donald Trump, a conversation between Donald Trump and my editor in chief, Keith Poole ... it's a take on Air Force One because we were hoping to make a sort of a almost like a diary of Donald Trump's presidency, his second term ... more exploring what makes him tick.”
  — Miranda Devine ([04:25])

Unusual Insights Into Trump's Past

[05:07]

• Trump’s parents had him aptitude tested as a child; to his father’s disappointment, he tested as a musical genius and briefly took flute lessons.
• Memorable Moment:
  Devine laughs about Trump’s embarrassment over flute lessons, revealing a lesser-known humanizing detail about the former (and current) president.

Cabinet Dynamics & Internal Culture

[05:40 - 08:21]

• Despite many strong personalities (“so many alpha males”), there is real unity in Trump’s cabinet, though tensions and occasional “periodic eruptions” (including a physical altercation between Elon Musk and Scott Besant) do occur.
• Trump maintains an “open door policy,” fostering camaraderie and direct access.
• Many cabinet members share a surprising psychological commonality: childhood trauma, especially involving their fathers around age 12 (e.g., loss, injury, family financial collapse). Devine theorizes this may have contributed to their drive and resilience as adults.
• Quote:

  “One of the things that I have discovered and I want to write a column about this is that of, I think it's like 7 out of 10 or out of 12 [cabinet members] have had the same childhood experience ... something tragic and dramatic happened with their father when they were around 12 years old."
  — Miranda Devine ([07:23])

Trump’s Second Term: Contrast and Evolution

[08:43]

• Trump has become more confident in wielding presidential authority, learning from his first term and the Biden interlude. He is now “imposing his will” energetically and efficiently.
• The pace is relentless (“everyone is working on Trump time”), and key staff like Chief of Staff Susie Wiles are credited for managing both Trump's ambitions and the well-being of his young team.
• Quote:

  “He also had four years to look at how Joe Biden was screwing everything up ... He has very little time. So everyone is working on Trump time. People half his age have run ragged, but they all seem to be rowing in the same direction.”
  — Miranda Devine ([08:43])

• On Susie Wiles:

  “He calls her the ice maiden. She's tough as nails, incredibly competent, but also very kind ... She tries to make sure anything that irritates him, she neutralizes before it becomes a problem.”
  — Miranda Devine ([09:50])

Media Reaction to the Trump-Brokered Middle East Peace Deal

[11:12]

• Devine notes a remarkable, temporary shift in media coverage following Trump’s historic peace deal, with even traditional critics in “liberal broadsheets” and cable news offering rare praise, lacking their usual snark.
• Some in Biden’s camp, notably Secretary Blinken, have tried to take credit, but the consensus is the deal was uniquely Trump’s achievement.
• Quote:

  “I was amazed seeing all these headlines of all these liberal broadsheets that were positive about Donald Trump. And I thought, where's the snark? ... all these very strong Trump critics just giving him unalloyed praise.”
  — Miranda Devine ([11:12])

Foreign Policy: Looking Ahead

[12:40]

• The administration faces mounting challenges with China (“the elephant in the room”).

• On Russia & Ukraine, Trump is expected to aggressively pursue a settlement involving Putin and Zelensky, as Russia’s economy falters and Putin makes conciliatory gestures post-Gaza deal.

• Quote:

  “I think that Zelensky and Ukraine has sort of set the table for Donald Trump to come in and try again to make a hard bargain with Putin.”
  — Miranda Devine ([13:23])

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “Pod Force One ... was hoping to make a sort of a almost like a diary of Donald Trump's presidency, his second term ... more exploring what makes him tick.” — Miranda Devine ([04:25])
• “There are those sorts of periodic eruptions, but ... around the Resolute desk were several cabinet members and ... just being his sort of ebullient self ... that's the kind of presidency that he runs. He has an open door policy.” — Miranda Devine ([06:34])
• “Seven out of ten or out of twelve have had the same childhood experience ... something tragic and dramatic happened with their father when they were around 12.” — Miranda Devine ([07:23])
• “He is making sure that he uses the authority he has as commander in chief to impose his will on the entire world and the country ... everyone is working on Trump time.” — Miranda Devine ([08:43])
• “Morning Joe, David Ignatius, all these very strong Trump critics just giving him unalloyed praise and saying, well, you know, Joe Biden tried, but he just wasn't able to pull it off.” — Miranda Devine ([11:22])
• “I think China is a big challenge. It's sort of the ... elephant in the room. Meanwhile, in Russia ... I think that Zelensky and Ukraine has set the table for Donald Trump ... to make a hard bargain with Putin.” — Miranda Devine ([12:40])

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Memorable Moments

• Trump’s musical aptitude test story and flute lessons ([04:25], [05:07])
• The revelation of a physical confrontation between Elon Musk and the commerce secretary outside the Oval Office ([06:05])

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Episode Flow & Structure

1. [04:15] Introduction to Miranda Devine and background on Pod Force One
2. [05:07] Trump’s childhood and the flute anecdote
3. [05:40 - 08:21] Cabinet dynamics, unity, and psychological insights
4. [08:43] Evolution of Trump’s approach in his second term
5. [11:12] Media’s reaction to the Middle East peace deal
6. [12:40] Foreign policy priorities: China, Russia, Ukraine
7. [13:44] Concluding remarks

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Tone

The episode maintains a tone of behind-the-scenes frankness and enthusiasm, blending insider anecdotes with political analysis. Devine’s commentary is candid, reflective, and occasionally lighthearted, especially in personal stories and descriptions of cabinet personalities.

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For listeners new and old, the episode illuminates the changing White House culture, the personal histories shaping today’s leaders, and how Trump’s second presidency is defining itself on the world stage and in the eyes of a sometimes-surprisingly receptive media.

Transcript

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Go to dailywire.com subscribe and join now. They came up to my father, they said, your son is brilliant at music. He'd be an incredible musician. This is not, this is not what my father wanted to hear. You know, this was not the greatest thing.

[Miranda Devine]

Did you ever play an instrument?

[Daily Wire Announcer]

I played like for very short periods of time. The flute. Would you believe that?

[Miranda Devine]

Did you like it?

[Daily Wire Announcer]

I had flute lessons. It's the first person that's ever asked me that crazy question. I had flute. Can you believe it? I could have been a flutist.

[Daily Wire Host]

That was President Trump speaking with Miranda Devine on her podcast Pod Force One, which offers an inside look at the White House in Trump's second term.

[John Bickley]

In this episode, we sit down with Devine, who peels back the curtain on the administration and the President's cabinet. I'm Daily Wire executive editor John Bickley with Georgia Howe. This is a weekend edition of Morning Wire.

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[John Bickley]

Joining us now to give us a glimpse behind the scenes in the White House is Miranda Devine, columnist at the New York Post and host of the Pod Force One podcast. Miranda, welcome. Good to see you again.

[Miranda Devine]

Pleasure, John. Good to see you too.

[John Bickley]

So look, we're really fascinated with your new podcast, Pod Force One. It's a real mover and shaker in the news industry. First, tell us about the launch of that, what inspired that and how's it gone so far?

[Miranda Devine]

Well, thanks, John. Yeah, it was really Donald Trump, a conversation between Donald Trump and my editor in chief, Keith Poole. And that was how the name came about, Pod Force One. It's a take on Air Force One because we were hoping to make a sort of a almost like a diary of Donald Trump's presidency, his second term, and to just do these periodic interviews with him that were a little sort of off the daily news pace. Although, I mean, with Donald Trump, it's always news, but just a little bit more exploring what makes him tick. Because he's such a unique character in history. And so, so far, I think I've had three interviews with him, each one different and each one driven by, you know, his personality, his enthusiasms and things, you know, that we didn't know before. Like, for instance, that he has. His parents had him aptitude tested when he was a small, rambunctious boy. And to his father's chagrin, he turned out Donald Trump to have a musical genius. And so his mother got him to learn how to play the flute, which he was slightly embarrassed about.

[John Bickley]

Flute. It's hard to imagine the relationship between the cabinet members is particularly interesting. Things from the outside look very amicable. Is this in your sense, is this a true team? Do you feel like there's a lot of unity there or is it more complicated?

[Miranda Devine]

No, I do feel there is unity. I mean, there's a couple of them that are sort of locking horns because there's so many alpha males. I mean, obviously you think about Howard Lutnick and Scott Besant, the Treasury Secretary and the Commerce Secretary. Elon Musk, of course, butted heads with several of them, including most famously in a stoush that turned physical outside the Oval Office door with President Trump listening in between Elon Musk and Scott Besant. So look, there, there are those sorts of periodic eruptions, but from what I've seen and from talking to them, and at one point, President Trump was waiting to interview him and he, as his, his want, he called someone to go get me and come in and, and say hi because he was running so late. And around the Resolute desk were several cabinet members and they were all, you know, there was Bon. And Donald Trump was making jokes and, you know, praising them and, you know, just, just being his sort of ebullient self. And I think that's the kind of presidency that he runs. He has an open door policy. The cabinet members are in and out all the time and interviewing each one of them. They're, they're really remarkable people, you know, with great achievements in their past anyway, and just fascinating. I mean, one of the things that I have discovered and I want to write a column about this is that of, I think it's like 7 out of 10 or out of 12 have had the same childhood experience, which is something tragic and dramatic happened with their father when they were around 12 years old, some a little older. So either their father died from cancer, was very badly injured. In the case of Mike Johnson, he's not a cabinet member, but the speaker, he was a firefighter badly Burned. Doug Burgum's father was killed in a grain farming accident. Scott Besant's father went broke at about that age. And the family, you know, lost everything. So each one of them, I just find that fascinating that there was this traumatic incident at that young age which made them grow up very fast and possibly brought them to where they are today.

[John Bickley]

That's totally fascinating. So some sort of psychological connection there amongst a lot of these, these guys. What do you think is the defining difference with the second term of Trump versus the first term of Trump? I mean, we've seen it seemed kind of chaotic in the first term. A lot of that was media driven, but there was, there were some major issues behind the scenes. What's so different now?

[Miranda Devine]

I think he had four years to think about how best to harness the power of presidency. And this time he is making sure that he uses the authority he has as commander in chief to impose his will on the entire world and the country. And he's not nervous or shy or insecure about using it in his first term. He really wasn't. He'd been in Washington, I think, you know, a few times, and he didn't really know the way the city worked and the deep state. And it's a very different beast from, you know, private enterprise, especially the New York developing game. So he also had four years to look at how Joe Biden was screwing everything up and to, I guess he had a burning desire to vindicate himself and come back, and he's done that. And he knows he has very little time. So everyone is working on Trump time. People half his age have run ragged, but they're all seem to be rowing in the same direction. And a lot of that is down to Susan. Susie Wiles, his chief of staff, his campaign co chair, who is just a dynamo. She's, he calls her the ice maiden. She's tough as nails, incredibly competent, but also very kind. And she's like, you know, a den mother to a lot of these young staff. She makes sure that they're able to get home in time to see their babies and their spouses. And she doesn't question Donald Trump, but she does steer him in the right direction. The way she describes to me when I interviewed her was that she tries to make sure that anything that irritates him, she neutralizes before it becomes a problem.

[John Bickley]

And meanwhile, we have this massive, historic peace deal brokered by Trump. Only Trump could have done it. I think even people on the left have to acknowledge it took someone like him, maybe only him, to get this deal done. And that's really overshadowing, I think, a lot of the blowback potential for the shutdown against Trump at least. I've got a question about the media. You talked about the media bias there. Have you seen any lightening up at all from the media in terms of their approach to Trump? Any more sense of fairness among any of the outlets? Are we seeing the same old thing that we saw from the first term and during the Biden presidency?

[Miranda Devine]

All the same, apart from with this peace deal? And I was amazed seeing all these headlines of all these liberals broadsheets that were positive about Donald Trump. And I thought, where's the snark? I scanned the story. No snark. Morning Joe, David Ignatius, all these very strong Trump critics just giving him unalloyed praise and saying, well, you know, Joe Biden tried, but he just wasn't able to pull it off. I think a little sour note in there is that Anthony Blinken and Biden World, and presumably we're hearing Joe Biden behind the scenes, are kind of grousing that they aren't getting credit. They're saying, oh, this is their plan, which is ridiculous. But, you know, Donald Trump had the foresight and the ability to go and stitch up these friendships with the Arab countries, and then he was able to leverage those into forcing Hamas to come to the table.

[Daily Wire Announcer]

Right.

[John Bickley]

And we had Israel, of course, taking out more and more of the assets for Iran so that they're weakened that working together. Also with Trump's amazing strike on the nuclear facilities, can't believe how quickly they were sort of defanged. Projecting forward next few months, what do you think are the priorities for the Trump administration? What are the headwinds? What are the potential wins for them?

[Miranda Devine]

Well, I think China is a big challenge. It's sort of the, the, the elephant in the room. Meanwhile, in Russia, I'm sure that Donald Trump will get straight stuck into trying to affect a deal with, again with Steve Witkoff, with Putin and Zelensky. And I think the Ukrainians have been very clever and strategic in causing more damage to Russia. Russia now has, you know, lines of people waiting for hours to get gas. Their economy is really teetering. And I noticed that Putin came out with some praise for Donald Trump over the Gaza deal. So he's trying to make nicey nicey. So, so let's see where that happens. I think that Zelensky and Ukraine has sort of set the table for Donald Trump to come in and try again to make a hard bargain with Putin.

[John Bickley]

Yeah, really solidifying his President of Peace moniker. We'll see if that can also so happen in Ukraine. Miranda, thank you so much for joining us.

[Miranda Devine]

Thanks, John. It was a pleasure.

[Daily Wire Host]

That was Miranda Devine of Pod Force One. And this has been a weekend edition of Morning Wire.