This Scientist Claims The Definitive Origin Of Covid 19 — ‘It’s In The Genetic Code’

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Morning Wire — "This Scientist Claims The Definitive Origin Of Covid 19 — ‘It’s In The Genetic Code’"

Date: June 28, 2026
Host(s): Georgia Howe, John Bickley
Guest: Dr. Stephen Kuei (Physician, Scientist, Author of The Code as Witness)

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles the persistent and controversial question of COVID-19’s origins. Host Georgia Howe interviews Dr. Stephen Kuei, an expert who asserts that definitive evidence of a lab origin for SARS-CoV-2 is embedded within its genetic code. Drawing from his new book, The Code as Witness, Dr. Kuei details specific genomic features of the virus, critiques the lack of scientific debate during the pandemic, and discusses the implications for research oversight and future pandemic preparedness.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Why the Origin of COVID-19 Still Matters

• Dr. Kuei’s Motivation for Writing the Book
  • Noted two simultaneous issues in 2020:
    1. Official narratives about the virus’ origin that lacked scientific basis.
    2. Scientific community censoring alternative viewpoints, stifling debate.
  • Emphasized the need for improved pandemic preparedness:

    "There may be another pandemic. It could be worse than the 1% SARS CoV2. We need to be better prepared, and we're not." (03:11 - Dr. Stephen Kuei)

Evidence for a Lab Origin in the Genetic Code

• Unusual Features in SARS-CoV-2 (04:03–05:00)
  • Furin Cleavage Site:
    • Highly transmissible feature not naturally found in related viruses.
    • "It has a particular site called the Furan site, which makes it highly transmissible, not found in nature in this class of viruses." (04:08 - Dr. Stephen Kuei)
  • Adaptation to Humans:
    • Virus “highly adapted for humans from the beginning,” unlike natural zoonotic viruses.
    • "This virus was highly adapted for humans from the beginning." (04:23)
  • Asymptomatic Transmission:
    • First known respiratory virus with such high asymptomatic rates—40–50% of cases.
    • Laboratory at Wuhan Institute studied making viruses transmit without symptoms.
  • Accessory Gene (Orf8):
    • Suppresses the immune system, both at onset and after infection.

    "There's a particular gene called an accessory gene. It has the fancy name orf8...responsible for suppressing the immune system so that the body doesn't react to it." (05:49 - Dr. Stephen Kuei)

“The Code as Witness” – Why Genomic Evidence Matters

• Dr. Kuei explains that official and private statements by virologists are divided, so his book focuses strictly on the scientific evidence embedded in the viral genome:

  "I use the evidence inside the virus itself because that's, you know, apolitical and really is the best place to find the evidence." (06:47)

• Features observed in SARS-CoV-2 closely match those engineered in laboratories over the past two decades but are absent in wild coronaviruses.

Size and Nature of Genetic Changes

• Furin cleavage site: 12 unique letters, never before seen in related natural viruses.
• Human adaptation: Up to 100 spike protein changes suited for infecting humans, not animals.
• No genomic evidence of gradual adaptation from bats, unlike prior SARS or MERS outbreaks:

  "That kind of evidence is what you should see in a natural spillover, which are completely absent in SARS. COV 2." (08:28)

Natural Spillover vs. Lab Origin

• Zoonosis explained: Classic natural spillovers involve traceable adaptation from animal hosts.
• Statistical Context: Historically, natural spillovers are 8 times more likely than lab leaks in Asia, but:

  "With the evidence, that actually flips so that it's greater than 95% likely it came from a laboratory." (09:19)

• Lab Accidents: Not rare, with thousands documented globally each decade.

Major Failures Leading to the Pandemic

• Unexpected Viral Behavior Took Scientists by Surprise:
  • Doctors anticipated limited, non-contagious outbreaks, not a highly transmissible, often asymptomatic illness.
  • If human-to-human transmission and asymptomatic spread had been recognized early, containment efforts could have changed.

  "Having the fact that it clearly shows that 99% of its recognition site for the human ACE2 were pre adapted made it...a Highly human to human pathogen from the beginning." (12:09)

Gain-of-Function Research — Oversight and Risk

• Research Ongoing:
  • Defined as making pathogens more infective or deadly.
  • Current oversight is insufficient due to self-interest from grant recipients.
  • Dr. Kuei recommends:
    • Creation of an independent national group to evaluate and regulate gain-of-function experiments.

What Could Full Transparency Reveal?

• Hypothetical access to all lab records would likely show a stepwise engineering of SARS-CoV-2, taking 6–12 months.

  "If you had the laboratory notebooks, you would see the steady Progress." (14:45)

• Describes how modern viral manipulation techniques, pioneered in the U.S., enable undetectable (seamless) genetic edits.
  • The location of outbreak and early cases point to the Wuhan Institute of Virology as the likeliest source.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "The science establishment was really censoring people who had opinions. There wasn't the opportunity to debate, which is the foundation of science."
  — Dr. Stephen Kuei (03:11)

• "This virus has features that have never been seen in thousands and thousands of viruses from nature."
  — Dr. Stephen Kuei (06:47)

• "If you hear about a new spillover in China...it is 8 to 1 likely that it's a natural event coming from nature versus a laboratory event...But with the evidence that actually flips so that it's greater than 95% likely it came from a laboratory."
  — Dr. Stephen Kuei (09:19)

• "All of the work was done in North America, but when you publish, it becomes available to everyone in the world."
  — Dr. Stephen Kuei on research technology transfer (15:13)

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• 02:45 — Dr. Kuei introduction
• 03:11 — Why investigating COVID-19’s origin is crucial
• 04:03 — Primary genomic indicators of lab origin
• 05:49 — Orf8 gene and immune evasion
• 06:47 — Why “the code is the witness”
• 07:49 — Nature and size of suspicious sequences
• 09:19 — Zoonosis vs. lab leak statistics and logic
• 12:09 — Science community’s failures during the initial response
• 13:38 — Gain-of-function research oversight recommendations
• 14:45 — What full transparency might uncover about manipulation
• 15:13 — Transfer of genetic engineering techniques and Wuhan as likely source

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Conclusion

Dr. Stephen Kuei offers a detailed case, based on viral genetics, for a lab origin of COVID-19 and highlights flaws in the scientific community’s response and preparedness for future pandemics. The episode delivers a robust critique of scientific culture and research governance, raising urgent questions about how potentially risky research is conducted and reviewed worldwide. This engaging, evidence-driven discussion is essential for anyone seeking to understand the ongoing debate about COVID-19’s true origins.

Transcript

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More than five years after the pandemic began, questions about the origins of COVID 19 remain hotly debated.

[Georgia Howe]

In our episode today, we speak to a physician, scientist, and author of the new book the Code as Witness. He argues that the strongest evidence for the lab leak theory comes from the genetic code of the virus itself. And a scandal like that should have huge implications for the scientific community. I'm Georgia Howe with Daily Wire executive editor John Bickley, and this is a weekend episode of Morning Wire.

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[Georgia Howe]

Joining us now to discuss the clues pointing to a lab origin found in the virus itself is Dr. Stephen Kuei. Dr. Kuei, thanks for coming on.

[Dr. Stephen Kuei]

Well, it's a pleasure to be here, Georgia.

[Georgia Howe]

So, Dr. Kuei, it's been five years since the pandemic began, and most people have moved on, but you've actually written an entire book that questions COVID 19, Covid's origins, and talks about why that still matters. Why did you choose that as the topic of your book?

[Dr. Stephen Kuei]

Well, I mean, I. I was looking at what was going on in two in 2020, and seeing two things happening at the same time. One was representation of where the virus came from. That didn't make sense scientifically. And then in a parallel fashion, the science establishment was really censoring people who had opinions. There wasn't the opportunity to debate, which is the foundation of science. So both of those drove me to write the book. And the third thing is that there may be another pandemic. It could be worse than the 1% SARS CoV2. We need to be better prepared, and we're not.

[Georgia Howe]

Now, you've argued that the virus itself contains some clues that point to a lab origin. What is the strongest piece of evidence that you've seen that makes you feel like this virus came from a lab leak?

[Dr. Stephen Kuei]

Well, it's looking at the virus and comparing it to thousands and thousands of viruses we have from nature. So it has a particular site called the Furan site, which makes it highly transmissible, not found in nature. In this class of viruses, it has some unusual adaptations to the human tissue that are not seen in viruses in nature. Because in nature, viruses are living in animals, bats and other kinds of intermediate hosts. This virus was highly adapted for humans from the beginning. It's also the first respiratory virus that was ever transmitted asymptomatically. I show that for five years, the one institute of virology was studying how to make a virus that could transmit without giving symptoms. Those are the three primary foundations inside the genome that say that it came from a laboratory and was manipulated in that laboratory.

[Georgia Howe]

When you say that it can be transmitted without symptoms, you mean in that prodrome phase before the symptoms arrive.

[Dr. Stephen Kuei]

So a new virus coming from nature is going to cause symptoms. In 98, 99% of patients, the symptoms are fever, you know, sweating, red cheeks and the like, because it runs into what's called the innate immune system because it's not used to, you know, to being in humans. This virus was 40 to 50% asymptomatic in its patients. We missed that for a few months because we never expected it to be asymptomatic. And that was one of the two or three things that contributed most to making it a pandemic, a worldwide condition where it has infected probably every person on the planet.

[Georgia Howe]

And you say there was evidence that they were working on making something exactly like that in the lab?

[Dr. Stephen Kuei]

Yes. There's a particular gene called an accessory gene. It has the fancy name orf8. I'm being facetious there, but Orphaned is responsible for suppressing the immune system so that the body doesn't react to it. On the front end of an infection, it makes it asymptomatic, and on the back end, it makes it hard to make antibodies against the virus. We've seen this virus affect people over and over again. And part of that is this protein called Orfate that's actually suppressing the immune system at the end of an infection.

[Georgia Howe]

Now, the title of your book that you often use, and it's a phrase in your book, is the code as Witness. Can you just unpack that, that phrase a little bit? And what aspects of the virus are you referring to there? And it might be the aspects that you just discussed.

[Dr. Stephen Kuei]

Yeah, I mean, the title is to indicate that there's been a lot of what I would all call he said, she said evidence around where the virus came from. So we have virologists talking about that it came from a market publicly, and then through FOIA and other means, gotten access to their private statements where they say, guys, this could really have been engineered in a laboratory. I don't use that evidence. I use the evidence inside the virus itself because that's, you know, apolitical and really is the best place to find the evidence. This virus has features that have never been seen in thousands and thousands of viruses from nature. And it is. And those features are specifically the kind that have been used over the last 20 years to make viruses more. More effective, ineffective in the laboratory. So it's circumstantial evidence. But much like fingerprints are circumstantial evidence, this points to a lab origin and a manipulation of the virus in the lab.

[Georgia Howe]

Now, how large are these gene sequences that you're referring to? Could some people say, oh, they just arose spontaneously or just mathematically? Does that not make sense based on how large they are?

[Dr. Stephen Kuei]

Well, they're different sizes. So the fear and cleavage Site. The thing that makes it SO transmissible is 12 specific new letters in the virus that have never been seen in a thousand years. In viruses from this class, the adaptation to humans is up to 100 different sites on the spike protein that are ideal for the human receptor, but not for the bat receptor, not for other host receptors.

[Georgia Howe]

If it came from bats, would you see some evidence in its genome of where it historically would have favored latching onto bats? Well, yeah.

[Dr. Stephen Kuei]

So the exact. What you're describing are two exact incidents. So this is a coronavirus, and in 2014, we had a coronavirus epidemic. In 2003, we had a coronavirus epidemic. Both of those came directly from animals to humans. In one case, something called a civet cat in markets in China, and the other from camels to humans in the Middle East. And those viruses had the hallmarks of having been in, respectively, civet cats and camels. And so that kind of evidence is what you should see in a natural spillover, which are completely absent in SARS. COV 2.

[Georgia Howe]

Well, that brings me to the next question, because some people who disagree with you say the evidence does favor that natural spillover. Can you just explain a little bit what that term spillover means and then your response to that critique?

[Dr. Stephen Kuei]

Yeah, so let's back up a little and do a little. A little biology training here. A zoonosis has the word zoo in it, and it involves three entities, a human, an animal, and a virus or perhaps a bacteria. If you hear about a new spillover in China, for example, or in asia, it is 8 to 1 likely that it's a natural event coming from nature versus a laboratory event, because that's the incidents that happen in Asia. And that's why I build the case that it's beyond a reasonable doubt that this came from a laboratory. Every year, there are on average, eight natural spillovers from nature to humans that end up in the hospital or, you know, in a clinic that we can detect. And in that same time frame every year, there's one approximately one lab incident where someone in a laboratory gets infected, they go out into the world, they begin to infect other people. So it's 8 to 1 in favor of nature. And that's your starting point. And that's a starting point in the book. But with the evidence that actually flips so that it's greater than 95% likely it came from a laboratory. The flip side is to be sure everyone understands that, that there are thousands of laboratory accidents around the world, you know, in the last decade, for example, where people, people have actually died from laboratory experiments they were conducting. So having an accident in a laboratory is actually not that rare. Given the large number of laboratories doing this kind of work and the pervasiveness of the of the microbes themselves.

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[Georgia Howe]

looking back when it comes to the largest failures with COVID that led to all those deaths, would you point the finger at science and sloppy lab work? Do you think it was a political issue or do you think it was institutional? Like the guard dog institutions failed at their in their position.

[Dr. Stephen Kuei]

Yeah. So I mean let's unpack that. That's a complicated question. So the two features of the virus that were unexpected for the frontline doctors and had they known they would have acted differently and had they acted differently, we would not have probably had a pandemic. Is the rapid human to human spread and the fact that about half the infections are asymptomatic. I spoke before about eight natural zoonoses per year in Asia for example. When they happen, one person gets sick and maybe gets very sick and maybe even dies. But because the pathogen, the virus is not adapted to humans, it doesn't go beyond there. It very seldom infects another person at all. And so the frontline doctors when this came out were expecting a virus that yes, was going to be, you know, dangerous for the people who had it, but wasn't that transmissible? And having the fact that it clearly shows that 99% of its recognition site for the human ACE2 were pre adapted made it, made it a Highly human to human pathogen from the beginning. And then the other thing is again, only 1% of viruses from nature are asymptomatic. And so none of our people expected that there was asymptomatic transmission which would have changed how we treated, you know, airport surveillance or shutting down travel and those kind of things.

[Georgia Howe]

Yeah. Now is gain of function research still happening? And if so, how should it be governed and how should it be managed?

[Dr. Stephen Kuei]

Yeah, I mean, I think it still is occurring. It's defined as changing the properties of a pathogen, a human pathogen, making it more infective. So it takes a smaller amount making it more pathogenic or likely to kill you and the like. And it, it is going on now. And as part the provisions that I suggest in the book is putting all of that under an independent national surveillance group, a research study group that would look at this research and weigh whether it's expected to cause benefit or it's just too risky to do right now. The people who are funding the research and doing the research are part of the people who decide whether the grants are appropriate or not. And that's there's too much self interest in that current cycle.

[Georgia Howe]

Now it's possible that a lot of the information was either hidden or destroyed. But if you or we were somehow able to gain access to 100% of the lab data, all of the correspondence, emails, internal records, etc. What do you think we would learn that still hasn't been exposed today?

[Dr. Stephen Kuei]

Well, I mean, I think the chain of custody on a natural virus, it gets manipulated in a lab in two or three ways, including, you know, fur and cleavage site, including adaption to the ACE2. I think that if you had the laboratory notebooks, you would see the steady Progress. Probably takes 6 to 12 months to do those activities. So you'd see the steps along the way that led to all of that

[Georgia Howe]

work and that would probably blow the lid off of where this specific virus came from.

[Dr. Stephen Kuei]

Well, I think, you know, I've done an analysis because to be, to remind, you know, your, your viewers, the techniques for manipulating viruses were developed at the University of North Carolina by a scientist called Ralph Barrick. And you know, it really is very inventive and creative fundamental research that he did in terms of making consensus viruses so growing viruses, it couldn't grow before being able to do reverse genetics in the laboratory. So you can manipulate them and make large quantities of them and doing seamless transmission so you can prevent the detection of the work itself. He called it the no seem technology where you, you can't actually detect viruses being done. So all of the work was done in North America, but when you publish, it becomes available to everyone in the world. My analysis was that given the location of the initial cases and the early spread and then the proximity of the of the cases in China, In Wuhan itself, that is the 7030 or 80, 20 likely location of the laboratory that did the work, the Wuhan Institute of Virology in Wuhan, China.

[Georgia Howe]

All right. Well, Dr. Kuei, thank you so much for coming on and explaining all of this to us.

[Dr. Stephen Kuei]

Thank you, Georgia. That was physician, scientist and author Dr. Stephen Kuei.

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And this has been a weekend edition of MORNING wire.

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