White Men Can’t Work? Inside the UK’s Workplace Discrimination Backlash

Summary

Summary of "White Men Can’t Work? Inside the UK’s Workplace Discrimination Backlash" - Morning Wire

Podcast Information:

• Title: Morning Wire
• Host/Author: The Daily Wire
• Episode: White Men Can’t Work? Inside the UK’s Workplace Discrimination Backlash
• Release Date: May 31, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of Morning Wire, John Bickley, Editor-in-Chief of The Daily Wire, along with co-host Georgia Howe, delves into the contentious issue of workplace discrimination against white men in the UK. Titled "White Men Can’t Work? Inside the UK’s Workplace Discrimination Backlash," the episode features an in-depth conversation with Tim Samuels, the host of the new podcast series "White Men Can't Work." Tim explores the rising sentiment among white men who feel marginalized in professional environments due to prevailing Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) initiatives.

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The Genesis of the Backlash

Tim Samuels introduces the topic by referencing a notable incident at JWT, a prominent advertising agency known for its white, straight, British middle-class workforce.

"JWT had a reputation for being white, straight, British middle class and they wanted to obliterate it." (00:02)

He discusses the abrupt firing of a highly acclaimed industry veteran solely based on his identity as a white male, setting the stage for the broader trend of perceived discrimination against white men.

John Bickley elaborates on the scale of this issue:

"More than a third of young men say they've lost out on promotions and other opportunities because of their race and gender." (00:12)

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Exploring the Hidden Scale of Discrimination

Georgia Howe prompts Tim to explain why this trend has surged yet remained largely unspoken in the UK.

"One of the things is it's incredibly hard to speak about this without being canceled, labeled as a racist, or written off as a sort of far-right loon pot." (01:47)

Tim emphasizes the challenges in addressing this sensitive topic, highlighting the anxiety and fear among men about voicing their experiences. He asserts that DEI schemes often fail to benefit, and sometimes even disadvantage, both men and minority groups.

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The Personal and Professional Toll

The conversation shifts to the psychological and professional impact of workplace discrimination on white men. Tim shares insights from interviews conducted for his series, including the story of a top advertising professional who lost his job after questioning workplace diversity policies.

"He still physically shivers when he thinks about what happened to him." (05:56)

Tim underscores the deep trauma and mental health struggles faced by these men, drawing parallels to historical events like the 2008 recession's spike in male suicides.

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DEI Programs: A Double-Edged Sword

Georgia raises the issue of whether social and professional punishments persist even after legal vindication. Tim responds by highlighting the resilience of DEI programs in the UK, despite growing backlash.

"DEI is alive and kicking over here... it's still very much alive in academia, and police forces." (09:31)

He critiques the effectiveness of DEI training, citing research by Harvard Professor Frank Dobbin, which indicates that such programs often exacerbate tensions rather than alleviate them.

"When you run these courses, it actually has a negative effect. It doesn't help women, it doesn't help people from minority backgrounds." (11:43)

Tim argues that DEI initiatives, inspired by a form of cultural Marxism, unintentionally demonize men by categorizing them uniformly as oppressors, regardless of individual backgrounds.

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Quantifying the Impact: Polling Insights

Georgia brings up polling data commissioned by Tim Samuels through JL Partners to quantify the extent of discrimination perceived by white men in the workplace.

"Almost half of men, 46% of white guys, say they self-censor because it could affect their careers." (12:12)

Key statistics from the poll include:

• 46% of white men self-censor at work to avoid negative career repercussions.
• 36% of men under 34 believe they've lost promotional opportunities due to their race and gender.
• One-third of white men feel they are the least valued workers.
• An estimated 8 million men in the UK (equivalent to 30-40 million in the US) report mental health issues stemming from workplace discrimination.

These figures illustrate a pervasive climate of fear and undervaluation among white men, contributing to a hostile work environment.

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Professional and Social Repercussions

Tim discusses his personal experiences since launching the series, noting both backlash and support.

"I've had people contact me and say, thank you for raising this... I've had a woman write that she's seen white men discriminated against in ways that wouldn't affect women or people of color." (15:46)

He acknowledges the divisive nature of the topic but emphasizes the importance of addressing it to improve mental health outcomes and workplace dynamics for everyone.

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Conclusion

In "White Men Can’t Work? Inside the UK’s Workplace Discrimination Backlash," Tim Samuels sheds light on a nuanced and often overlooked aspect of workplace discrimination. Through interviews, polling data, and expert opinions, the episode highlights the significant psychological and professional toll on white men in the UK, questioning the efficacy of current DEI initiatives and advocating for more balanced and effective solutions.

Tim Samuels encourages listeners to engage with the full five-part series available on YouTube and various podcast platforms, urging a respectful and open dialogue on the pressing issue of workplace discrimination.

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Notable Quotes

• Tim Samuels (01:47):

  "Journalistically, I felt this is a subject that someone has to raise their head above the parapet..."

• Tim Samuels (03:12):

  "I've always believed in classic values like fairness, free speech, meritocracy..."

• Tim Samuels (05:56):

  "...he was kicked out of his job. He spiraled. He ended up on antidepressants."

• Tim Samuels (09:31):

  "There are millions of men... who say that their careers have been severely hampered."

• Tim Samuels (11:43):

  "These courses ultimately are inspired by a cultural form of Marxism and crudely divide the world into oppressed and oppressor."

• Tim Samuels (12:12):

  "Almost half of men, 46% of white guys, say they self-censor because it could affect their careers."

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Accessing the Series

For those interested in exploring this critical issue further, Tim Samuels invites listeners to watch the "White Men Can't Work" series on YouTube and all major podcast platforms. The multi-part series aims to foster understanding and dialogue around the challenges faced by white men in today's professional landscape.

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This summary is based on the transcript provided and aims to encapsulate the key discussions and insights from the episode. For a complete understanding, listeners are encouraged to engage with the full podcast.

Transcript

[Tim Samuels]

JWT had a reputation for being white, straight, British middle class and they wanted to obliterate it.

[John Bickley]

That was a highly acclaimed advertising industry veteran who found himself abruptly fired because of his identity being a white male. The interview is part of a new series highlighting the growing number of white men in the UK that feel they've been actively discriminated against in the workplace. That includes more than a third of young men whose say they've lost out on promotions and other opportunities because of their race and gender.

[Georgia Howe]

In this episode we talk to the journalist and award winning documentary maker behind the series about the trend and why he believes it's crucial to call attention to the issue in the UK Now. I'm Daily Wire Executive Editor John Bickley with Georgia Howe. It's Saturday, May 31st and this is a weekend edition of Morning Wire.

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[Georgia Howe]

Joining us now is Tim Samuels, host of White Men Can't Work, a new podcast series. Tim, thanks so much for joining us.

[Tim Samuels]

My pleasure. Good to see you, John.

[Georgia Howe]

So your new series highlights what you call the hidden scale of discrimination against white men in the workplace. What do you think has allowed this trend to grow so rapidly and yet remain largely unspoken for so long in the uk?

[Tim Samuels]

I think one of the things is it's incredibly hard to speak about this without being canceled cans, labeled as a racist, written off as a sort of far right loon pot. But journalistically I felt this is a subject that someone has to raise their head above the parapet on because I think there is so much unsaid and untold anxiety that men are feeling in today's workplace. There's a level of discrimination and these diversity DEI schemes don't work. They don't even benefit women or people from minority backgrounds. And I've spent a lot of time over the years talking about men and mental health in my documentaries and I just kept hearing from guys that I'm having a really hard time at work because I'm a guy, my career's really taken a hit. I'm terrified I'm going to say the wrong thing, but I can't say any of this out loud. And I just thought good journalism requires airing things which are important and I'm going to probably cop it for this. I'm going to be labeled as something I'm not. But I just thought it's an important story that we do need to tell.

[Georgia Howe]

Yeah. I wanted to highlight your background a little bit more here. You are, a reporter for the BBC. You've won awards for your documentary work in the past. Is this a major risk for you, then, highlighting this issue? What was strong enough to sort of drive you to pursue this despite the risks?

[Tim Samuels]

Yeah, I mean, I. I think it is. I've spent most of my life doing the BBC. I spent a bit of time doing Nat Geo in the States. More recently I did the Free Press covering October 7 attacks in Israel. So most of my work has been through, I guess, what you would classify as mainstream media. And I think I'm running into a minefield. No matter how sort of nuanced you try and be and balanced, I think, by just even saying, hey, we need to talk about white men. Some people are going to look at me and say, God, you've changed, whereas I don't think I have. I've always believed in, I guess, classic values like fairness, free speech, meritocracy, and as a journalist, calling out when billions are being spent and not working, when people are suffering and being discriminated against. Even if those people who are now being discriminated against, as odd as it might sound, are some white guys. You know, there are people who I've interviewed who've directly lost their jobs because they're white men or have been sacked over crazy microaggressions. And this isn't to say things don't need to change. Of course, racism and sexism does need addressing. And, John, over the years I've done quite campaigning journalism. I've worked undercover in Northern Ireland to expose racism there against the Muslim and Chinese communities. I was attacked on camera. I've talked to the EPA about why so many black people in Alabama are living next to toxic sites. But at the same time, this does need calling out. And it doesn't make you racist to say that there are millions of men, our data has found, who are walking around too anxious to speak freely at work, who say that their careers have been severely hampered. This needs calling out. It just has to be called out. And from a mental health point of view, we found there are 8 million guys in this country who say that their mental health has taken a hit because of DEI. In US terms, it would be equivalent to 30, 40 million guys saying that their mental health has taken a hit. Suicide is a terrible problem with men. Work is so important to men's identity and self esteem. We have to talk about this stuff without it being labeled as kind of racist or crackpot.

[Georgia Howe]

Now, in one of the interviews I watched that you conducted, the gentleman that you talked to, he was in the ad industry, he said exactly that. He said his identity was really wrapped up in his career. He was a top level professional, won lots of accolades for his work and it took a major toll on him psychologically, even physically. Can you speak to that? What did experts tell you about the impact that this kind of cancellation has?

[Tim Samuels]

Yeah, I mean, John, for better or worse, we're kind of hunter gatherers at heart. You know, as men in particular, we are wired to work. That's how we get our income, our identity, our status, our sense of being men, for better or worse, is tied up with that. When jobs become vulnerable, that has a huge impact. In the 2008 recession, there was a, a spike of about 10,000 male suicides in North America and Europe. After that, we put all our eggs in the work basket and that's really dangerous. And what DEI is doing is it's making us feel incredibly vulnerable about this thing which is so important to who we are. And in some cases, Chaz, the advertising guy that you mentioned, he was working at one of the world's biggest ad agencies and they decided, post, me too, that this company, it's a bit too white, it's a bit too male, it's a bit too sort of middle class and British. And he and four colleagues thought that doesn't sound good for us. And he'd won the top advertising awards in the country. And so he emailed HR and said, well, what does this mean? And within days all five of them were sacked and they took them to an industrial tribunal and the judge ruled that they had been sacked simply because they were men. They were sacked because they were men. And then the social media mob came for him and it reached the point where he was diagnosed with trauma. He's moved to the other side of the world. And when I spoke to him, he said he still physically Shakespeare when he thinks about what happened to him. So this is very deep trauma. And he's not the only person. There's a theme that runs through all five parts of White Men can't work. The guys who've been on the wrong end of this end up with really serious oppressive issues. And there's a fascinating insight from a therapist we interview who says that when you kind of get canceled, when you're cast out, it's the ultimate way for evolution to put you on edge. You're being ostracized. Traditionally, we would have lived in our bands, in our tribes. And when you're cast out, that means you're vulnerable to other tribes, to dinosaurs, to lions, to anything. So it's very, very destabilizing to be ostracized. And people are being ostracized for the smallest things. There was a lecturer at a university who, you know, he wasn't getting on great with some of his colleagues because he was questioning some of the orthodoxy, and they decided to sort of get rid of him. And they collected microaggressions that he was accused of, including talking about the male and female ends of cables. You know, if anyone's ever had a cable, there's a male and a female go on Amazon. It's what you call. He was told he was being sexist by referring to that terminology, and he was kicked out of his job. He spiraled. He ended up on antidepressants. So there's a kind of lack of humanity and a lack of empathy for men which runs through all this.

[Georgia Howe]

It's interesting you're highlighting two elements or sort of prongs to this attack on white men. Professional, but also social, cultural attacks. So even if a judge determines that you were wrongfully terminated by bringing it up, you're punished socially. Do you see any progress on that front at all in the uk? We're seeing some major blowback here against DEI in the US what about in the UK Now?

[Tim Samuels]

I would say by and large, DEI is alive and kicking over here. I think some of the big companies where they are us facing have pulled back a bit. I think a number of others have doubled down and say, okay, we don't want to. We think this is important. And the Institute of Directors over here found that, you know, a vast majority of of big companies are still running DEI programs. It's still very much alive and kicking in academia, and police forces here. And our National Health Service are still insisting on whiteness training, even though all the data shows that these courses backfire. There's a really interesting Harvard professor, Frank Dobbin, who we've been speaking to, who's looked at data sets for 8 million people who've been through DEI courses. And the studies show that when you run these courses, it actually has a negative effect. It doesn't help women, it doesn't help people from minority backgrounds because you're essentially saying to white blokes, hey, by the way, you're all unconsciously racist and you're all privileged. And the natural reaction when someone calls you racist isn't to say, well, God, John, that's a brilliant point. I never thought of that. I am so racist. It's to say, well, f you, I don't want to be part of this. So, you know, I go back to the, you know, the original thing being, of course, we should tackle discrimination where it exists. There are just smarter ways to do that, you know, with mentoring, with work experience, with skills training, in companies, not by running these courses which ultimately are inspired by a cultural form of Marxism and crudely divide the world into oppressed and oppressor. And if you're white and male, you are automatically an oppressor, regardless of what your background is. If you could be working class, you could be blue collar, it doesn't matter. And billions, $40 billion or so a year is spent on these courses. And for what? They make things worse for those men to help and they demonize men. But to say this, whoa, you know, look at you, you're a crazy sort of lunatic for even questioning this.

[Georgia Howe]

So in the end, it's really a shortcut, an easy way to feel like you're addressing the problem. Whereas as you mentioned, the long term comprehensive approach really takes more effort, requires training people, changing cultural attitudes, building better infrastructure. All that takes a long time. This is a nice easy solution that doesn't work at all. In the end, like you say, I wanted to look into some of the polling numbers. You commissioned a group, JL partners, to look into this issue. And can you tell us about those results?

[Tim Samuels]

Yeah. So, I mean, you know, really top pollsters here, what they found is, I sort of found quite staggering really, that almost half of men, 46% of white guys, say they self censor because it could affect their careers. And this doesn't mean that they're dying to be racist and they're self censoring. These are people who are saying they won't give honest but respectful feedback to a colleague at work or they won't risk making a joke. These are guys who are literally sitting on their hands in meetings so they think if I speak out, I'm going to be seen as some sort of boorish, white oppressive male. A third of young guys, 36% of guys under 34. So they've lost out on a promotion or other opportunities because they're white men. So these are young guys probably in their late twenties who've maybe only gone for one or two promotions in their life, but they feel that already they're being discriminated against. Most, you know, nearly half of everyone thinks that there's strong agreement the next generation are going to be worse off. One in three white men feel that they're the least valued workers in the workplace. And then there is that sort of mental health toll that I was talking about. And as I said in US terms, 11 or 8 million guys here, it's equivalent to sort of 30, 40 million guys in America who are walking around anxious that they can say or do the wrong thing that's going to get them sacked. And these are guys who I don't think would have any problems with schemes that genuinely worked, that address discrimination without some kind of quick fix overnight. That doesn't work. But they're really terrible. You know, the workplace has become a hostile environment for a lot of guys.

[Georgia Howe]

Final question. Since you've launched this series, have you experienced any blowback professionally or personally?

[Tim Samuels]

I've had, I've had two reactions, John. One has been from some people I know who say, what the hell are you doing? Have you thought about this? To which I say, actually watch the documentary or watch the, you know, watch it and tell me if there's anything you disagree with in that rather than just go with some social media micro attention nonsense. But I've also had people contact me and say, thank you for raising this. I can't say this out loud, but I've had a really hard time, you know, I, I feel like I've been discriminated against. And I've also had some women get in touch with me, say, I'm not being allowed to say this, but at my, in my job I've seen this happen. I've seen things happen to white men. A woman wrote to me this week said, I've seen things happen to white men which if they happen to women or people of color would have been deemed as completely unacceptable. And she was very serious in the creative industries here. So it's divisive. You know, this stuff's always divisive. But I, you know, I'm trying to sort of respectfully shed a light journalistically on something which I really do think needs addressing because it's not helping anyone, it's not helping women, it's not helping people. Of color. And it certainly is hell not helping men. And mental health is so fragile in this world that we do need to look after our men as much as.

[Georgia Howe]

Everyone else, even the white men. Tim, thanks so much for talking with us. And where can folks watch the show?

[Tim Samuels]

Thank you. And it's going to be on YouTube and it's on all the podcast platforms and it's five parts. And we'd love people to get behind it because a lot of people really are not that into free speech these days.

[Georgia Howe]

That was Tim Samuels, host of the series White Men Can't Work. And this has been a weekend edition of MORNING Wire Foreign this is Dr. Jordan B. Peterson. Watch Parenting, available exclusively on Daily Wire. Plus, we're dealing with misbehaviors with our son.

[Tim Samuels]

Our 13 year old throws tantrums.

[Georgia Howe]

Our son turned to some substance abuse. Go to dailywireplus.com today.