Morning Wire — Special Edition

Episode: Why Therapy Can’t Heal the Soul: A Christian Case for Mind Renewal
Date: December 28, 2025
Host: Daily Wire Culture Reporter Megan Basham
Guest: Dr. Greg Gifford, Masters University, Author of Lies My Therapist Told Me

Episode Overview

This episode explores the limitations and pitfalls of secular psychiatric treatment from a Christian perspective, as presented by Dr. Greg Gifford. The discussion centers on the current mental health crisis in America, the trend of overdiagnosis and dependence on therapeutic labels, the confusion between brain and mind, and the role biblical counseling and "mind renewal" can play in true healing. Dr. Gifford draws distinctions between secular and Christian approaches to mental health, arguing that solutions rooted in biblical truth are more effective at addressing the core of psychological suffering.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Mental Health Crisis, Overdiagnosis, and Identity

[02:26–04:39]

• Dr. Gifford asserts that Americans are “absolutely” overdiagnosed with mental health issues, with diagnoses often resting on arbitrary criteria and incentives for both patients and professionals.
• Young people increasingly absorb diagnoses as core to their identity, sometimes absent even a clinical assessment:

  “People are identifying with therapeutic terminology and seeing themselves according to their diagnoses... It’s now my identity, like this is who I am.” — Dr. Greg Gifford (03:11)

• This shift in self-perception changes “what really, really matters” in life from a biblical to a secular/therapeutic narrative.

2. Therapy Labels, Self-Perception, and the Church

[04:39–05:46]

• Gifford gives examples of children as young as three being diagnosed and then carrying those labels through formative years.
• He warns this leads to an “informed by therapeutic terminology instead of who God says you are.”

3. Motivations Behind Overdiagnosis: Naturalism Versus Intentional Profit

[05:46–06:58]

• While acknowledging financial incentives in the industry, he ultimately sees naturalistic worldviews as the driver behind overdiagnosing and “brain blaming” for problems of the mind:

  “Naturalism has set the stage for us to blame things on our brain that are not truly brain issues.” — Dr. Greg Gifford (06:52)

4. Brain vs. Mind: A Distinction With Deep Consequences

[06:58–08:19]

• Gifford insists on a distinction between the physical brain and the immaterial mind.
• The mental health field, he argues, confuses the two, leading to misplaced remedies and flawed research:

  “Mind is not material. You can’t touch it, you can’t put it under a microscope.” — Dr. Greg Gifford (07:44)

5. Christian Mind Renewal as the Solution

[08:19–09:34]

• Medicine cannot heal issues of the mind — only spiritual practices and biblical “mind renewal” can, per Gifford:

  “Romans 12:2. You’re transformed by the renewal of your mind. And that is what it means to grow in sanctification.” — Dr. Greg Gifford (08:55)

• He recommends seeking pastoral care over secular therapy for issues rooted in the mind.

6. The Role of Physical Health

[09:34–10:22]

• Exercise and healthy habits are “stewardship” of the body, impacting mood, but these alone cannot resolve deeper mental struggles.
• “You can have a healthy body and yet still have a mind that has significant issues... you can’t exercise away dark thoughts.”

7. Societal Impacts of Medication and Overdiagnosis

[10:22–11:44]

• Rising prescriptions and diagnoses have not led to lower rates of mental illness; problems are worsening:

  “The problem’s not getting better... so wait a minute. What if we’ve misdiagnosed the nature of the problem?” — Dr. Greg Gifford (11:12)

• Gifford argues current methods immobilize society with unscientific, arbitrary labels.

8. Secular Approaches in the Church: “Therapist Pastors” and Abdication

[11:44–13:48]

• Companies like Better Help, with secular and progressive approaches to gender and sexuality, have infiltrated Christian spaces.
• Pastors are criticized for adopting psychological tools over biblical wisdom:

  “Pastors that are really trafficking in psychological tips and tricks instead of teaching us the Bible, which is what we fundamentally need.” — Dr. Greg Gifford (12:31)

• He contends biblically-trained pastors are more qualified than most therapists for addressing core spiritual issues.

9. Critique of the DSM and the “Symptom-Based” Approach

[13:48–15:12]

• The DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) is described as both arbitrary and unverifiable.
• Diagnoses are often “symptom-based,” lacking empirical grounding and scientific verifiability.

10. Approach to Depression: Biblical Counseling Model

[15:12–16:31]

• When helping someone with depression, Gifford asks probing, context-driven questions and helps synthesize their story through scripture.
• Medical explanations are not dismissed but are approached skeptically, only adopted when warranted by physical evidence.

11. Limits of Secular Therapy for Nonbelievers

[16:08–17:18]

• Gifford is firm: “Not ultimately, no.”
• Non-believers may alleviate symptoms, but the root (“estranged relationship with God”) remains unresolved; thus full healing, joy, and peace are impossible without biblical reconciliation.

12. Trauma, The ‘Body Keeps the Score,’ and Pop Psychology

[17:18–19:43]

• Gifford criticizes Bessel van der Kolk’s concept that “the body keeps the score” of trauma, citing vague definitions and lack of biological specificity.
• He points to Christianity’s unique ability to process suffering because of theological context:

  “Christians with a biblical worldview know what to do with suffering... we have a worldview that can support traumatic moments.” — Dr. Greg Gifford (18:31)

13. The ‘Trauma’ Trend and Tenacity

[19:20–21:01]

• Claims of trauma are becoming broader, increasingly used for “difficult conversations” or minor life challenges.
• Gifford sees the overuse of the term as destructive to personal responsibility and perseverance, favoring a return to biblical teachings on endurance and character-building.

14. Critique of the ‘Self-Care’ Movement

[21:01–22:15]

• Modern self-care is called “myopic” and “self worship,” often fostering self-absorption rather than responsible stewardship:

  “Your life is not about you ultimately... self care is more like self worship for many people.” — Dr. Greg Gifford (21:48)

15. Distinguishing Physical From Spiritual Problems

[22:15–23:15]

• Gifford advises to “rule out all medical issues” before proceeding to address inner, spiritual concerns through scripture and repentance.

16. Sin, Guilt, and Redefinition as ‘Mental Health’

[23:15–23:41]

• He asserts that some depression is tied to sin, now reframed in psychological rather than biblical terms.

  “We’re kind of redefining things like sin as psychological issues... whereas scripture would say, well, you feel guilt because you’re sinning.” — Megan Basham (23:15)

17. The DSM, Sexual Norms, and Moral Relativity

[23:41–25:20]

• The DSM’s ambiguity on sexual disorders exposes its inability, sans absolute truth, to define normal or aberrant sexual behavior.
• Gifford: “If you don’t have absolute truth, you can’t define what aberrant sexual behavior looks like... we need a ruler to say, okay, what defines right and wrong?... the Bible is and has always been.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Naturalism has set the stage for us to blame things on our brain that are not truly brain issues.”
  — Dr. Greg Gifford (06:52)

• “Mind is not material. You can’t touch it, you can’t put it under a microscope.”
  — Dr. Greg Gifford (07:44)

• “You’re transformed by the renewal of your mind. And that is what it means to grow in sanctification.”
  — Dr. Greg Gifford (08:55)

• “Pastors that are really trafficking in psychological tips and tricks instead of teaching us the Bible, which is what we fundamentally need.”
  — Dr. Greg Gifford (12:31)

• “You can help rearrange fruit, you can help deal with symptoms, but you’re not really treating the root of the issue.”
  — Dr. Greg Gifford (16:54)

• “Your life is not about you ultimately... self care is more like self worship for many people.”
  — Dr. Greg Gifford (21:48)

• “If you don’t have absolute truth, you can’t define what aberrant sexual behavior looks like.”
  — Dr. Greg Gifford (24:38)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction/context: [00:34–02:26]
• Overdiagnosis & Identity: [02:26–05:46]
• Brain vs. Mind Distinction: [06:58–08:19]
• Mind Renewal & Scripture: [08:19–09:34]
• Limitations of Medication/Systemic Effects: [10:22–11:44]
• Secular Therapy in the Church: [11:44–13:48]
• DSM critique: [13:48–15:12]
• Counseling approach to depression: [15:12–17:18]
• ‘The Body Keeps the Score’ critique: [17:18–19:43]
• ‘Trauma’ and Perseverance: [19:20–21:01]
• Self-Care critique: [21:32–22:15]
• Distinguishing Body/Mind Issues: [22:15–23:15]
• Sexuality, DSM, and Moral Absolutes: [23:41–25:20]

Summary

This episode takes a critical look at the current state of mental health culture in America through the lens of Christian theology. Dr. Greg Gifford argues that secular psychiatry’s overreliance on diagnosis, medication, and scientific terminology cannot meaningfully address the immaterial nature of the mind or soul. He contends that true healing and growth come through the biblical practice of “mind renewal” and urges believers to look to pastors properly trained in scripture, not modern therapists, for deep matters of the heart. The conversation also addresses the influence of secular psychology within churches, critiques on mainstream trauma literature, and the dangers of locating identity, meaning, or solutions solely within the self or "self-care." At its core, the episode argues for a return to theological and spiritual frameworks as the ultimate answer to the crisis of the modern mind.