Why Turkey? And Other Thanksgiving Traditions Explained

Summary

Podcast Summary: “Why Turkey? And Other Thanksgiving Traditions Explained”

Podcast: Morning Wire
Hosts: John Bickley, Georgia Howe
Guest: Melanie Kirkpatrick (author and Hudson Institute Senior Fellow)
Date: November 27, 2025

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Episode Overview

This special Thanksgiving edition of Morning Wire explores the rich history and evolving traditions of Thanksgiving in America. Host John Bickley and guest Melanie Kirkpatrick delve into the origins of the holiday, the myths and truths behind early celebrations, why turkey became the centerpiece, controversies like “Franksgiving,” and how the meaning of Thanksgiving has shifted over the years. The conversation is both informative and lively, aiming to separate fact from fiction and highlight the enduring values behind Thanksgiving.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Real Origins of Thanksgiving

[02:20–05:38]

• Thanksgiving predates the Pilgrims; early European explorers and Native Americans both observed days of thanks.
• The “first Thanksgiving,” as commonly understood, did involve the Pilgrims and about 90 Native Americans after their first harvest, despite great hardship (“half of the Pilgrims had died”).
• Descriptions of the event come from just two written sources.
• Many popular images (e.g., Pilgrims in dark clothes, Native Americans in elaborate headdresses) are historically inaccurate—Pilgrims actually wore bright colors, and Native Americans wore only a few feathers.

“If you look at the other items in the painting, you know, not so true. For example, the Pilgrims are all dressed in dark colors. And in truth, in fact, they wore bright colors.”
—Melanie Kirkpatrick [04:23]

2. Why Turkey? And What Else Was Served?

[05:38–07:07]

• There probably was turkey at the first Thanksgiving, referenced as a “great store of wild turkey” in the records, but venison was definitely served (a gift from Native Americans).
• Turkey became popular because wild turkeys were plentiful in New England and later domesticated.
• Other foods and traditions were regionally influenced; for instance, chicken pot pie was the main dish in 19th century New England homes, and immigrants brought their own culinary customs (e.g., lasagna, curries).

“As settlers from other places came to this country, they brought their own traditions with them. Lasagna and stir fries, things that... So it's still evolving. The meal is still evolving.”
—Melanie Kirkpatrick [06:48]

3. The Road to a National Holiday

[07:07–10:04]

• Early Thanksgivings were set community by community or state by state, often on different dates.
• Sarah Josepha Hale, influential editor of Godey’s Lady’s Book, led a decades-long campaign to make Thanksgiving a unified national holiday, lobbying politicians and using her magazine.
• Abraham Lincoln declared the first official national Thanksgiving in 1863, amidst the Civil War, after Hale’s urging. Every president since has named an official Thanksgiving Day.
• It wasn’t until 1941 that Congress fixed Thanksgiving as the fourth Thursday of November, signed by FDR.

“She [Sarah Josepha Hale] tried to persuade presidents... they wouldn’t, because they said that the Constitution didn’t give them that power... but in 1863, she wrote to Lincoln asking him to name a date when the whole country could celebrate. He did.”
—Melanie Kirkpatrick [08:11]

4. Why Thursday?

[10:04–11:10]

• The choice of Thursday as Thanksgiving isn’t entirely clear—likely due to other days being reserved (e.g., Friday as a fast day, Sunday as a religious day).
• The tradition possibly solidified because George Washington announced a Thursday, and subsequent presidents (including Lincoln) continued this.

“It was the date that George Washington proclaimed in 1789. ...Abraham Lincoln chose Thursday in keeping with Washington’s tradition, and so today it’s a Thursday.”
—Melanie Kirkpatrick [10:55]

5. The “Franksgiving” Controversy

[11:10–13:16]

• In 1939, FDR moved Thanksgiving up by a week to lengthen the holiday shopping season (theory: help the economy in the Great Depression).
• The move split the country (some states followed the new date, others the traditional), causing confusion, especially for football schedules and calendar makers.
• Ultimately, the experiment failed and in 1941 Congress fixed Thanksgiving on the fourth Thursday.

“It caused an uproar in America. It was front page news. ...People were offended by this, that the president was interfering with what they saw as the traditional date of Thanksgiving.”
—Melanie Kirkpatrick [12:24]

6. Football and Thanksgiving: A Lasting Tradition

[14:10–15:57]

• The tradition of football games on Thanksgiving began in the late 19th century, with notable college games in the 1870s and 1880s.
• By the 1890s, Thanksgiving Day football was a national fixture; men attended games in the morning, then rejoined families for dinner.
• Today, Turkey Trots (Thanksgiving Day races) are also prevalent.

“It was a tradition that grew starting in. Around the 1870s, 1880s... By the 1890s, there was a tradition of having games on Thanksgiving morning.”
—Melanie Kirkpatrick [14:30]

7. The Evolving Meaning of Thanksgiving

[15:57–17:30]

• Thanksgiving’s religious aspect has softened; historically, church attendance was part of the day.
• However, values of charity and generosity remain strongly associated—helping the poor, ensuring the military and the vulnerable have meals.
• Being alone on Thanksgiving is depicted as a poignant symbol of isolation in American culture.
• At its core, Thanksgiving is about family, friendship, and gratitude.

“I think maybe the saddest image in American culture is somebody who has no place to go on Thanksgiving Day. It’s a day that’s associated with family and friendship.”
—Melanie Kirkpatrick [17:23]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Debunking Pilgrim Myths:
  “If you look at the other items in the painting, you know, not so true...”
  —Melanie Kirkpatrick [04:22]

• On the Diversity of Thanksgiving Food:
  “Lasagna and stir fries, things that. And curries. So it's still evolving.”
  —Melanie Kirkpatrick [06:54]

• On FDR’s Failed Experiment:
  “It was front page news. And people were offended by this, that the president was interfering with what they saw as the traditional date of Thanksgiving.”
  —Melanie Kirkpatrick [12:24]

• The “American” Response to Franksgiving:
  “That sounds like a very American response right there. It also just goes to show we take tradition very seriously.”
  —John Bickley [13:16]

• The Sad Image of Thanksgiving:
  “I think maybe the saddest image in American culture is somebody who has no place to go on Thanksgiving Day.”
  —Melanie Kirkpatrick [17:23]

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Key Timestamps for Reference

• 02:20 — Guest introduction & start of historical deep dive.
• 02:47 — Origins of the Thanksgiving tradition explained.
• 05:38 — Discussion about turkey and other foods.
• 07:07 — When/why Thanksgiving became a national holiday.
• 10:04 — Why Thursday was chosen.
• 11:10 — The “Franksgiving” controversy.
• 14:10 — Football and Thanksgiving, evolution of the custom.
• 15:57 — Thanksgiving’s role and meaning in modern America.
• 17:44 — Show conclusion.

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Tone and Style

The episode maintains an accessible, slightly playful tone, mixing historical insight with relatable commentary and gentle myth-busting. Kirkpatrick is respectful but direct in correcting misconceptions and sharing little-known facts. The hosts adopt a curious and sometimes lighthearted posture, especially when discussing American reactions to tradition.

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Takeaway

Thanksgiving, as explored in this episode, is a complex and evolving American tradition—rooted in gratitude but shaped by centuries of change, invention, and controversy. Its core values of togetherness, generosity, and reflection remain vital, serving as an annual reminder of the nation’s diverse heritage and shared ideals.

Transcript

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Most people have heard the schoolbook version of the origins of Thanksgiving, but the history of the holiday is far more complicated than it's usually depict.

[John Bickley]

In this episode, we sit down with an expert on the origins of the tradition to discuss its evolution and some of the controversies that have surrounded it over the decades. I'm Daily Wire Executive Editor John Bickley with Georgia Howe. This is a Thanksgiving week edition of Morning Wire.

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[John Bickley]

Joining us now to discuss the history of Thanksgiving and some of the past controversies surrounding it is Melanie Kirkpatrick, author of the Holiday at the Heart of the American Experience And a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute. Melanie, thank you so much for joining us.

[Melanie Kirkpatrick]

Yes, it's great to be with you.

[John Bickley]

Look, there's been a lot of controversy actually around Thanksgiving. Let's start at the very beginning. We've heard all the simplified versions of this, but how did the tradition actually originate?

[Melanie Kirkpatrick]

Well, you know, Thanksgiving actually goes back to before the Pilgrims, as I learned when I was researching my book. And many of the European explorers who came to this continent called days of Thanksgiving. And of course, the original Thanksgivings were called by Native American populations. But to answer your question, the Pilgrims had. After their first harvest, they gathered their people together and called a day of Thanksgiving. And I'll point out that this is kind of. It's very wonderful when you consider that half of the Pilgrims had died between the arrival of the Pilgrims and the day of Thanksgiving. But nonetheless, they gave thanks for the blessings of the harvest and for being together. And then, of course, Native Americans joined them. There were about 90 Native Americans who joined them, and they celebrated for three days. So, so far, so good. We know all of that thanks to two articles, two commentaries by two of the Pilgrims. But then a lot of the other stuff we traditionally associate with the Pilgrims is not necessarily true. There's a famous painting of the first Thanksgiving showing the Pilgrims having a meal outside. That's true, but if you look at the other items in the painting, you know, not so true. For example, the Pilgrims are all dressed in dark colors. And in truth, in fact, they wore bright colors, which of course, goes against what we all learned in kindergarten about how the Pilgrims dressed. And similarly, the Native Americans who were there were depicted as wearing elaborate headdresses like you'd see in the Plains Indians. But that wasn't true either. They wore maybe one or two feathers. So then also the food, of course, we don't know exactly what was eaten. One of the pilgrimages pilgrims mentions the great store of wild turkey that was available. So they probably had turkey. We know they had venison because the Indians brought as a gift a bunch of deer that they had killed. So that was a standard feature of Thanksgiving Day up through the parts of the 19th century. Actually, though, I think we'd be hard pressed to find people eating venison on Thanksgiving Day today. Right.

[John Bickley]

And some reason, the turkey really stuck. Why do you think that is?

[Melanie Kirkpatrick]

Well, there were lots of wild turkeys in New England as there are today. I just saw a flock of turkeys out my window the other day. I live in Connecticut, so they were easy to find. And Also, they were, by the. Oh, gosh, end of the 18th, early 19th, they were domesticated. They were special. But in New England in the 19th century, the Central feature of the meal was chicken pot pie. And I know people in New England whose family used to still have that tradition of having chicken pot pie around the time of the holiday, not necessarily on Thanksgiving Day. And as the settlers, American settlers, as they went west through the Middle west and then all the way to the Pacific, brought their own food traditions with them. So you find beef being eaten on Thanksgiving instead of turkey. And as settlers from other place came to this country, they brought their own traditions with them. Lasagna and stir fries, things that. And curries. So it's still evolving. The meal is still evolving.

[John Bickley]

Now, eventually, this became an official holiday. When and why was Thanksgiving actually recognized as an official national holiday?

[Melanie Kirkpatrick]

Oh, this is an interesting story. The early settlers in New England fixed the dates of their Thanksgivings, community by community or church by church. And then the governor of the New England colony would name a date. And as the years went by, colony by colony or state by state, the governor would name a date. And people didn't celebrate on the same day. You had a situation where one state could celebrate maybe at the end of September, and yet another state would be celebrating in November or December. So it was very ad hoc. And sometimes the governor decided not to call it Thanksgiving at all. But then along came Sarah Josepha Hale, who was the editor of Godey's Ladies Magazine, the most popular, the most widely read magazine of the early part of the 19th century. And she was from New Hampshire, and she adored the Thanksgiving holiday, and she decided to try to make it national. She saw it as part of. As part of American culture, part of our heritage. She tried to persuade presidents of the United States to name a Thanksgiving Day. They wouldn't, because they said that the Constitution didn't give them that power. And that's a whole other story. But she used the power of her magazine to write about Thanksgiving and encourage governors to coordinate the date so that they would have the same date. As the Civil War was approaching, she intensified her campaign. And in 1863, she wrote to Lincoln asking him to name a date when the whole country could celebrate. He did. And in 1863 was the first date that at least part of the country, the north, the Union, celebrated on one date. And since then, after Lincoln's death, every president since Lincoln has named a day an official date of Thanksgiving. Interestingly, it wasn't until 1941 that Thanksgiving became official. Congress passed a resolution naming the fourth Thursday of November the date of Thanksgiving, and President Franklin Roosevelt signed it into law.

[John Bickley]

Why did Thursday end up being the day where it should be celebrated? It's kind of odd to me.

[Melanie Kirkpatrick]

You know, I don't know it. I guess in part it was because other days were taken. You know, Friday was sometimes a fast day. Sunday was a day of worship. So, you know, but that's. I don't know. I couldn't find out. I can tell you, though, why it's the date that we celebrate today. It was the date that George Washington proclaimed in 1789. It was the first presidential proclamation. And he named Thursday again. I don't know why it was Thursday, but ever since then, Thursday has been the most popular date for Thanksgiving. Abraham Lincoln chose Thursday in keeping with Washington's tradition, and so today it's a Thursday.

[John Bickley]

Now, fdr, you mentioned him. There's also the Franksgiving controversy. Can you tell us about that? What happened there?

[Melanie Kirkpatrick]

Franksgiving and some of our older watchers may remember this. In 19, Franklin Roosevelt decided that he would change the date of Thanksgiving, and he made it a week earlier than tradition, saying that he had a very dubious economic theory. He said that if we celebrated Thanksgiving a week earlier, then people would have more time, more days to go shopping, and the country's economy would improve.

[John Bickley]

All right, so Black Friday motivated the decision.

[Melanie Kirkpatrick]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This was before Black Friday. Right. But in 1939, we were in the Great Depression and Americans didn't have the money to go shopping. So this was a big flop. And finally in 1941, he changed. He admitted defeat. And that's when Congress stepped in and called, passed a resolution naming the fourth Thursday as Thanksgiving. But interestingly, when Roosevelt did this in 1939, it caused an uproar in America. It was front page news. And people were offended by this, that the president was interfering with what they saw as the traditional date of Thanksgiving. So with the result that half of the country kept with Roosevelt's date, which was, I think, the 23rd of November, and the other half of the country went with a traditional date, which in their minds was the last Thursday of the month, and that was the 30th of November.

[John Bickley]

That sounds like a very American response right there. It also just goes to show we take tradition very seriously. It actually matters culturally. It's something we can unite behind.

[Melanie Kirkpatrick]

This was, in retrospect, you can kind of laugh at it, because the group of Americans who seemed to be among the most upset by this were football fans. And by then A lot of American colleges, many of them, maybe most of them, had their final championship game of the season on Thanksgiving Day. So they were upset. And that led to calendar makers also being upset, because, of course, calendars were designed for a year in advance, and they were losing a lot of money if they couldn't sell those calendars with the wrong date of Thanksgiving.

[John Bickley]

I'm glad you brought up football there. I wanted to actually ask you about that. What is the connection between football and Thanksgiving? Is it just that the holiday week provides a. An opportunity for more people to travel to games, or is it just happenstance in terms of timing for the football season?

[Melanie Kirkpatrick]

It was a tradition that grew starting in. Around the 1870s, 1880s. Football. Actually, the first football games took place in, I think, the late 1860s between Rutgers and Princeton. And then there was a college championship game that was played in New York City, and New Yorkers really got into it and was played on Thanksgiving Day. And that tradition and New York sets the scene, you know, sets the trend. And other cities followed suit, and high schools and community groups would have. By the 1890s, there was a tradition of having games on Thanksgiving morning, and the guys would go off to the games, and the women would stay home and make dinner, and everybody would reconvene in the afternoon and celebrate Thanksgiving.

[John Bickley]

Oh, that actually surprises me. So from the very beginning of football, it's been connected to Thanksgiving. I didn't know that.

[Melanie Kirkpatrick]

Well, not quite all. There were probably a couple of decades before that connection was made. But, yes, it's been a very close connection. And you see it especially in the late 19th, early 20th centuries where it was a strong tradition. Today, we don't have that tradition. But now a lot of places have races on Thanksgiving morning and call them turkey trots.

[John Bickley]

Yeah, I've definitely taken part in my share of those. So final question. What does Thanksgiving mean to the nation in today's, you know, modern world? Do you think the meaning has changed, or does it retain its traditional value in terms of communities and the society at large?

[Melanie Kirkpatrick]

I think the value has shifted somewhat. The. It's not as religious a holiday as it used to be. For the first couple of hundred years, people went to church on Thanksgiving morning, too, before they went to football. But we don't see that as much. It's still religious in the sense that if a family is going to say grace before a meal, they'll sell. It'll be on Thanksgiving, I believe. But the values of generosity to the poor, for example, have long been associated with Thanksgiving. The earliest example I found of that was I think 1624. So and today people participate in helping, making sure that the military gets a good Thanksgiving dinner and prisoners and people who have a hard time affording a meal. And I think maybe the saddest image in American culture is somebody who has no place to go on Thanksgiving Day. It's a day that's associated with family and friendship.

[John Bickley]

Yeah. And good food, like you mentioned. Melanie, thank you so much for joining. It's a total delight here. We appreciate you bringing us your insights on this holiday.

[Melanie Kirkpatrick]

Well, I enjoyed speaking with you and I wish you and all of your viewers a very happy Thanksgiving.

[John Bickley]

That was Hudson Institute senior fellow Melanie Kirkpatrick, author of the Holiday at the Heart of the American Experience. And this has been a Thanksgiving week edition of MORNING wire.

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