Podcast Summary: “Why Turkey? And Other Thanksgiving Traditions Explained”

Podcast: Morning Wire
Hosts: John Bickley, Georgia Howe
Guest: Melanie Kirkpatrick (author and Hudson Institute Senior Fellow)
Date: November 27, 2025

Episode Overview

This special Thanksgiving edition of Morning Wire explores the rich history and evolving traditions of Thanksgiving in America. Host John Bickley and guest Melanie Kirkpatrick delve into the origins of the holiday, the myths and truths behind early celebrations, why turkey became the centerpiece, controversies like “Franksgiving,” and how the meaning of Thanksgiving has shifted over the years. The conversation is both informative and lively, aiming to separate fact from fiction and highlight the enduring values behind Thanksgiving.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Real Origins of Thanksgiving

[02:20–05:38]

• Thanksgiving predates the Pilgrims; early European explorers and Native Americans both observed days of thanks.
• The “first Thanksgiving,” as commonly understood, did involve the Pilgrims and about 90 Native Americans after their first harvest, despite great hardship (“half of the Pilgrims had died”).
• Descriptions of the event come from just two written sources.
• Many popular images (e.g., Pilgrims in dark clothes, Native Americans in elaborate headdresses) are historically inaccurate—Pilgrims actually wore bright colors, and Native Americans wore only a few feathers.

“If you look at the other items in the painting, you know, not so true. For example, the Pilgrims are all dressed in dark colors. And in truth, in fact, they wore bright colors.”
—Melanie Kirkpatrick [04:23]

2. Why Turkey? And What Else Was Served?

[05:38–07:07]

• There probably was turkey at the first Thanksgiving, referenced as a “great store of wild turkey” in the records, but venison was definitely served (a gift from Native Americans).
• Turkey became popular because wild turkeys were plentiful in New England and later domesticated.
• Other foods and traditions were regionally influenced; for instance, chicken pot pie was the main dish in 19th century New England homes, and immigrants brought their own culinary customs (e.g., lasagna, curries).

“As settlers from other places came to this country, they brought their own traditions with them. Lasagna and stir fries, things that... So it's still evolving. The meal is still evolving.”
—Melanie Kirkpatrick [06:48]

3. The Road to a National Holiday

[07:07–10:04]

• Early Thanksgivings were set community by community or state by state, often on different dates.
• Sarah Josepha Hale, influential editor of Godey’s Lady’s Book, led a decades-long campaign to make Thanksgiving a unified national holiday, lobbying politicians and using her magazine.
• Abraham Lincoln declared the first official national Thanksgiving in 1863, amidst the Civil War, after Hale’s urging. Every president since has named an official Thanksgiving Day.
• It wasn’t until 1941 that Congress fixed Thanksgiving as the fourth Thursday of November, signed by FDR.

“She [Sarah Josepha Hale] tried to persuade presidents... they wouldn’t, because they said that the Constitution didn’t give them that power... but in 1863, she wrote to Lincoln asking him to name a date when the whole country could celebrate. He did.”
—Melanie Kirkpatrick [08:11]

4. Why Thursday?

[10:04–11:10]

• The choice of Thursday as Thanksgiving isn’t entirely clear—likely due to other days being reserved (e.g., Friday as a fast day, Sunday as a religious day).
• The tradition possibly solidified because George Washington announced a Thursday, and subsequent presidents (including Lincoln) continued this.

“It was the date that George Washington proclaimed in 1789. ...Abraham Lincoln chose Thursday in keeping with Washington’s tradition, and so today it’s a Thursday.”
—Melanie Kirkpatrick [10:55]

5. The “Franksgiving” Controversy

[11:10–13:16]

• In 1939, FDR moved Thanksgiving up by a week to lengthen the holiday shopping season (theory: help the economy in the Great Depression).
• The move split the country (some states followed the new date, others the traditional), causing confusion, especially for football schedules and calendar makers.
• Ultimately, the experiment failed and in 1941 Congress fixed Thanksgiving on the fourth Thursday.

“It caused an uproar in America. It was front page news. ...People were offended by this, that the president was interfering with what they saw as the traditional date of Thanksgiving.”
—Melanie Kirkpatrick [12:24]

6. Football and Thanksgiving: A Lasting Tradition

[14:10–15:57]

• The tradition of football games on Thanksgiving began in the late 19th century, with notable college games in the 1870s and 1880s.
• By the 1890s, Thanksgiving Day football was a national fixture; men attended games in the morning, then rejoined families for dinner.
• Today, Turkey Trots (Thanksgiving Day races) are also prevalent.

“It was a tradition that grew starting in. Around the 1870s, 1880s... By the 1890s, there was a tradition of having games on Thanksgiving morning.”
—Melanie Kirkpatrick [14:30]

7. The Evolving Meaning of Thanksgiving

[15:57–17:30]

• Thanksgiving’s religious aspect has softened; historically, church attendance was part of the day.
• However, values of charity and generosity remain strongly associated—helping the poor, ensuring the military and the vulnerable have meals.
• Being alone on Thanksgiving is depicted as a poignant symbol of isolation in American culture.
• At its core, Thanksgiving is about family, friendship, and gratitude.

“I think maybe the saddest image in American culture is somebody who has no place to go on Thanksgiving Day. It’s a day that’s associated with family and friendship.”
—Melanie Kirkpatrick [17:23]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Debunking Pilgrim Myths:
  “If you look at the other items in the painting, you know, not so true...”
  —Melanie Kirkpatrick [04:22]

• On the Diversity of Thanksgiving Food:
  “Lasagna and stir fries, things that. And curries. So it's still evolving.”
  —Melanie Kirkpatrick [06:54]

• On FDR’s Failed Experiment:
  “It was front page news. And people were offended by this, that the president was interfering with what they saw as the traditional date of Thanksgiving.”
  —Melanie Kirkpatrick [12:24]

• The “American” Response to Franksgiving:
  “That sounds like a very American response right there. It also just goes to show we take tradition very seriously.”
  —John Bickley [13:16]

• The Sad Image of Thanksgiving:
  “I think maybe the saddest image in American culture is somebody who has no place to go on Thanksgiving Day.”
  —Melanie Kirkpatrick [17:23]

Key Timestamps for Reference

• 02:20 — Guest introduction & start of historical deep dive.
• 02:47 — Origins of the Thanksgiving tradition explained.
• 05:38 — Discussion about turkey and other foods.
• 07:07 — When/why Thanksgiving became a national holiday.
• 10:04 — Why Thursday was chosen.
• 11:10 — The “Franksgiving” controversy.
• 14:10 — Football and Thanksgiving, evolution of the custom.
• 15:57 — Thanksgiving’s role and meaning in modern America.
• 17:44 — Show conclusion.

Tone and Style

The episode maintains an accessible, slightly playful tone, mixing historical insight with relatable commentary and gentle myth-busting. Kirkpatrick is respectful but direct in correcting misconceptions and sharing little-known facts. The hosts adopt a curious and sometimes lighthearted posture, especially when discussing American reactions to tradition.

Takeaway

Thanksgiving, as explored in this episode, is a complex and evolving American tradition—rooted in gratitude but shaped by centuries of change, invention, and controversy. Its core values of togetherness, generosity, and reflection remain vital, serving as an annual reminder of the nation’s diverse heritage and shared ideals.