Danny Espinosa: How a big leaguer would develop your kid

Summary

Podcast Summary

Most Valuable Agent with Matt Hannaford

Episode: Danny Espinosa: How a big leaguer would develop your kid
Date: June 10, 2026
Guest: Danny Espinosa – Former Major League player, travel ball owner/coach, and parent
Host: Matt Hannaford

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Episode Overview

This episode features a candid and in-depth conversation between MLB agent Matt Hannaford and former big leaguer Danny Espinosa. The main theme: How should parents, coaches, and youth organizations actually develop young baseball players? Danny draws from his own experiences as a professional athlete, current youth coach, and father of two sons at opposite ends of the talent spectrum. The episode addresses parental expectations, development vs. winning, over-coaching, appropriate exposure, and the true markers of success for kids in sport.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Problem with the Win-At-All-Costs Youth Baseball Mentality

• Stealing Signs at Youth Level:

  • Danny observes signs being picked at sub-10U tournaments, leading him to question the purpose behind such tactics for young kids.
    • "You don't know what you're talking about. You've never played baseball." (Danny recounting a coach's dismissive comeback – [01:19])
  • Espinosa comments that this approach doesn't help player development:
    • "Are those kids working very hard... yes, I think they are. But... that's not applicable for older baseball. Just to win at that moment and to be relaying pitches." ([02:14])

• Development Over Winning:

  • Both agree that youth ball should be focused on building well-rounded players and people—not just winning for temporary satisfaction.
    • "If a coach is picking signs, right? How is that helping a player develop?" (Matt – [01:41])
    • "You could have a group of players who actually don’t ever develop but you have a winning team." (Matt – [04:12])

• Impact on Baseball IQ:

  • Espinosa warns that over-controlled games prevent kids from learning "baseball IQ," leading to high school/college coaches getting players who "don’t know how to play baseball."
    • "When that kid stops getting that information... and he gets to high school and they're not telling him every pitch... is that kid’s career kind of stop or stunt?" (Danny – [03:20])

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2. Real Youth Development: Espinosa’s Coaching Philosophy

• Teaching the Game, Not Just Mechanics:

  • "I'm not your personal hitting coach. I'm not your personal fielding coach. I do spend time with them working on drills... but I'm trying to teach the game." (Danny – [05:00])
  • Espinosa emphasizes situational understanding, defensive fundamentals, and allowing kids to make their own decisions.
  • Matches age-appropriate goals: at 9/10, development and fun, not early specialization.
    • “At 9 or 10, they’re naturally going to develop anyways... you have to let the process play out.” (Matt – [06:22])

• Letting Kids Mature:

  • Parents are often anxious about special instruction for young kids.
    • "You weren’t who you were because at nine years old you had the greatest hitting coach in the country." (Matt – [06:21])
    • Danny: "My dad and I in the garage... you had to develop, you had to mature, you had to hit puberty..."

• Dealing with Early Bloomers and Late Bloomers:

  • A warning not to give up on kids if they plateau, and not to overvalue dominance at young ages.
    • "Ride the wave... your kid could be really good right now. He might go through a year or two of not being the top... Keep encouraging him to play." (Danny – [11:20])

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3. Handling Adversity: Coaching Through Failure

• Measuring Success Beyond Winning:
  • Espinosa’s own success metrics:
    • "Did we play better? Did we throw more strikes? Did we make better decisions… Are they starting to learn to do it on their own?" ([12:01])
    • "You can lose and be ok... you can win and play terrible." (Danny – [12:47])
• Motivating Kids After a Tough Weekend:
  • "That we trust them... You know how many times I struck out? It’s ok. It’s part of the game… I’m not putting you down the lineup..." (Danny – [13:14])
  • Focuses post-game conversations on positives and learning moments (“What did you do well today?”)

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4. The Dangers of Over-Coaching & Specialization

• Don’t Over-Mechanize Young Hitters:

  • Danny is wary of too much technical instruction early.
    • "Let the kids be athletic. The biggest thing I go back and look at my career is how much over-coaching there was in baseball." (Danny – [20:21])
    • "Freddie Freeman is talking about not overcoaching your kids... let them be athletic." ([20:04])

• Appropriate Drills & Practice Structure:

  • Glove work is foundational ("we always start with basically our glove work" – [18:10])
  • Avoiding the backhand unless dictated by the ball; tons of grounders and fly balls; keep hitting cues simple so as not to conflict with private lessons ([19:40])
  • Teaches drills to instill feel/movement, e.g. step-back drill for natural lower-half engagement ([22:33])
    • "I use it... as an easy way to teach the kids how to feel their legs and how to get into their backside..." ([22:33])

• Exposure, Competition, and Development—In Order:

  • Hannaford stresses that development should precede a focus on showcases/exposure.
    • "If my focus is development, then I can utilize the competition... and then when the time is right, exposure becomes the byproduct..." (Matt – [24:37])
  • Espinosa: Many parents push for exposure opportunities, when it’s premature ("what exposure do you want?"). Real exposure only matters around junior year of high school ([24:49]).

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5. The Parent’s Role & the Dangers of Living Through Kids

• Baseball Is Not a Business Investment:

  • Parents often justify expensive travel/showcase ball as a scholarship investment.
    • Matt: "Are you doing this because you're planning on this being a smart business decision or are you doing it because your son loves it?" ([29:06])

• Let the Kid Lead the Journey:

  • Danny relates his sons’ contrasting levels of ambition:
    • "I've told my older son, you know, this isn't what you want to do, just tell me. That's OK." ([29:51])
  • Kids should feel supported regardless of talent or outcome.
    • "Find what you love. And then I'm here if you want to do that." (Danny – [30:48])

• The Post-Game Car Ride:

  • Danny never talks about performance in the car on the way home.
    • "I get in and just, we don't really talk about it... I don't need to go again." ([39:01])
    • "If they get right after the game, I’ll say, ‘hey, good job.’ And then we get in the car and talk about something else..." ([40:33])

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6. Multi-Sport Participation: Encouraged with Caution

• Play Multiple Sports—If the Child Wants To:
  • Early diversification is good for athleticism—don’t force specialization unless the child loves one sport and wants to focus.
    • "At a young age you play everything... you start [focusing] on something that you love more..." (Danny – [34:47])
    • "Play multiple sports if he's enjoying it. If he's played for five or six years and he doesn't love football anymore... it's actually OK to peel back..." (Matt – [36:14])
• Family Time Management:
  • Acknowledges the difficulty and potential burnout from overscheduling; encourages listening to the child’s wishes.

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7. Structural & Cultural Issues in Modern Youth Baseball

• More Games, More Stress:
  • Travel/training volume is much higher now. Espinosa questions the benefit.
    • "You play more games now, which I don't know if that's good or bad, because everything's the tournament." (Danny – [46:46])
• Travel Ball Proliferation:
  • Now has many divisions—difference from era when only "elite" played travel ball ([47:13])
• The Holdback Trend:
  • Criticizes the practice of holding kids back a grade for perceived athletic advantage.
    • "Now people want to hold their kids back because they're going to be better... What does it do for the kid? Unless the kid needs it, what does it do?" (Danny – [48:21])

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8. True Markers of Success: The Parent-Child Relationship

• The Most Important Outcome:
  • It’s not about scholarships or reaching the big leagues, but about relationship and support.
    • "My dad used to say... whether you play one more day, I always love you." (Danny – [52:19])
    • "If my kids... are older and they're like, I love you. Let's go do something... I think I did a good job as a parent." ([52:27])
  • Matt: "There’s plenty of kids that got scholarships... and their relationship with their parents isn’t what it should be." ([51:15])

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Notable Quotes

• On development over winning (02:14):
  "Are those kids working very hard... yes, I think they are. But... that's not applicable for older baseball. Just to win at that moment and to be relaying pitches... It's just to say you won, right?"
  — Danny Espinosa

• On patience with development (11:20):
  "Ride the wave... your kid could be really good right now. He might go through a year or two of not being the top... but don't give up on your kid either."
  — Danny Espinosa

• On adversity (13:14):
  "That we trust them... You know how many times I struck out? It’s ok. It’s part of the game."
  — Danny Espinosa

• On avoiding over-coaching (20:21):
  "Let the kids be athletic. The biggest thing I go back and look at my career is how much over-coaching there was and is in baseball."
  — Danny Espinosa

• On exposure (24:49):
  "What exposure do you want? Exposure to go to your local high school?"
  — Danny Espinosa

• On the best measure of parenting success (52:19):
  "My dad used to say... whether you play one more day, I always love you."
  — Danny Espinosa

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:12 – Introduction & Sign-Stealing at Young Ages
• 05:00 – Espinosa’s Coaching Approach: Teaching the Game
• 09:50 – Lessons from Early Specialization & Over-Coaching
• 11:20 – Handling Ups and Downs in Development
• 13:14 – Helping Kids Process Adversity
• 18:10 – Espinosa’s Actual Practice Structure & Drills
• 20:04 – Freddie Freeman’s Philosophy for Youth Development
• 22:33 – Explaining the Step-Back Drill
• 24:37 – Exposure vs. Competition vs. Development
• 29:06 – The Pitfall of the Business-Minded Parent
• 34:16 – On Playing Multiple Sports and Time Management
• 46:46 – How Youth Ball Has Changed: More Games, More Pressure
• 48:21 – The Problem with Holdbacks
• 52:19 – Defining Success As a Parent

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Tone & Language

The conversation is frank, occasionally humorous, and deeply empathetic—geared toward parents and coaches but always with the best interests of the kids at heart. Both Matt and Danny use practical examples from their own lives, speak candidly about mistakes, and advocate a calm, patient, and process-driven approach to youth development.

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Summary

This episode offers a masterclass in how not to lose sight of the true priority in youth sports: developing skilled, confident, and happy kids who love the game—regardless of their future in baseball. With actionable advice, personal confessions, and a heartfelt closing, Hannaford and Espinosa deliver an episode that challenges parents and coaches to focus less on winning and exposure, and more on genuine development, supportive relationships, and the long-term well-being of young players.

Transcript

[A]

All right, so today we're joined by a good friend, Danny Espinosa. We go way back. So Danny, you obviously played pro ball. Fellow Long Beach State dirtbag, first round pick, also third round pick or third round pick. I'm sorry, I think the money that you got was pretty nice. But also, so you are a dad and a travel ball owner and coach. You kind of do all things. So I feel like you check a lot of boxes for, for the listener. I want to kind of jump in first and talk about a conversation that you and I had recently. And you, you were at a tournament, right? And, and shout out to your organization, the OC Crush. You're at a tournament. And we don't need to say the age group, but it was a young age group, right? And you had reached out to me because you're like, Matt, is it normal that, that coaches would, would pick signs for, for these young kids games? And I said, not like what? No chance. You're like, yeah, it happened the entire game. And you said to me, you're like, I called the coach out and what was his answer to you?

[B]

That's where baseball is at now. You don't know what you're talking about. You've never played baseball.

[A]

You've never played baseball.

[B]

But they said to me, did they

[A]

not know who you were? I mean, I mean, that's comical, but

[B]

that was the comment they gave back to me. This is where baseball is at. I said, no, it's maybe in the big leagues. I said, not for this age.

[A]

Well, and it shouldn't be, right? No.

[B]

So that's the sub 10 year old baseball, right?

[A]

And that's the conversation I want to have is we're in this weird place now where you have these parents and I don't want to say it's, oh, all parents are bad. All parents are not bad. No, not at all. But we're in this weird world where the goal is more about how do we win and not how do we develop men. How do we develop kids that work hard? How do we develop kids that play the game the right way? Because think about it, if a coach is picking signs, right? How is that helping a player develop?

[B]

I don't think it is. I don't think that a kid is learning how to hit a fastball and adjust to an off speed pitch. I don't think they're learning that at all. You know, are those kids working very hard and those organizations working hard? Yes, I think they are. But to go to a game and to teach them stuff In a game that's applicable for nine and ten year old baseball, that is not applicable for older baseball. Just to win at that moment and to be relaying pitches. And it's obviously very prevalent throughout that age group. Cause I noticed it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And what does it do? It's just to say you won, right?

[A]

Well, yeah. What is that? What is that? The question that comes to mind is what is that ultimately reinforcing to the players? If you have kids at 9 and 10 years old who do this for the next 3, 4, 5 years, what is that reinforcing to them about really what this whole game is about?

[B]

Well, I mean I, you know, at the older level, at the big league level, I have no problem players doing it to players. I honestly don't mind that. I think that's a part of the game.

[A]

That is a part of the game.

[B]

You know, it's a part of that game too is guys get hit when that happens.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That's not what we want in a nine year old baseball. That's not what we want. We don't want a kid hurt. We don't want any of that. Yeah, but don't tell me that's what's going on in nine year old baseball. So to me, if you're teaching it now, what happens when that kid stops getting that information and never learned how to adjust in a batter to look for a pitch or anything else and he gets to high school and they're not telling him every pitch that comes? Is that kid career kind of stop or stunt? What's the learning curve at that point? And I think that's where we were talking about of, you know, you talk to so many pro people and so many college people go, I'm getting guys that don't know how to play baseball

[A]

when that so, and, and that's really where I want to take this is we're, we're not teaching kids really like a what I'll call kind of like baseball iq.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

It's no longer about how do we take a player with a certain level of skill and how do we continue to refine them and make them better baseball players down the road. It's now more about, okay, I need to have certain kids on my team who do something well at 9 years old and do that as much as humanly possible. And if we win a tournament, then we've done our job. So you could have a group of players who actually don't ever develop but you have a winning team. How is that helping these kids? You know down the road. It's just not, it's not, it doesn't.

[B]

And that's what. And I think that's where you get to. And I've said this to so many parents of. Yes, you're so happy with the winning now and with that organization when they hold tryouts every six months and your kid's not one of the top 11 kids and they cut them, what's your next step?

[A]

Yeah, right. Great point.

[B]

What's your next step at that point?

[A]

Well, and so what I want to talk to you about because you guys do have your own organization at 9 years old, at 10 years old, what are you doing to develop these kids?

[B]

I'm trying to teach the game. I'm not your personal hitting coach. I'm not your personal fielding coach. I do spend time with them working on drills, stuff. I'm trying to teach the game. So when they're out there and we go over drills and over situations, they can start to make these decisions on their own the correct way. Not for nine year old baseball to throw a guy out from right field to first base, which will never happen at older age. And I understand it's an out at a younger age and it helps you win. Great. I just don't want to teach that. I want to teach the correct way. So for me, tons of defense, situational stuff. I don't rely on offspeed with my pitchers. If I, my pitchers get hit and they want to throw fastballs, I want arm strength developed. I don't want them to rely on an off speed pitch. Right. I do stuff like that. I try to teach them in practice when the game. I'm not yelling the whole time. Yes. Do I, you know, get loud and do I teach during the game? 100%. They're little kids but I'm trying to advance them and teach some stuff at a younger age. So when they get to high school, they go, this kid knows how to play baseball. I'm not trying to teach him what he should have learned four or five years ago.

[A]

Well, yeah. And at 9, 10 years old and you said something, I'm not teach. I'm not their hitting coach, I'm not their fielding coach. What you're ultimately trying to teach them at 9 years old. It's for a specific reason. Because at 9 or 10 years old they're naturally going to develop anyways. Like you weren't who you were. Because at nine years old you had the greatest hitting coach in the country.

[B]

No. Didn't have one.

[A]

Right.

[B]

My dad and I in the, in the garage.

[A]

Right. You had to develop, you had to mature. Right. You had to hit puberty, you had to like, figure things out and naturally you did. And I think that's one of those things where a lot of families, they, they reach out to me on this podcast and are like, you know, my son's 10 years old and we're in this area, who's the best hitting coach? And I just think for me, my advice would be like, you have to let the process play out and that's a hard thing for a parent to do because it makes them feel like they're not doing anything.

[B]

Yeah. And I, and I see that side of it because I have two sons. One who's, you know, at the very, very bottom of talent wise and one who's at the, at the top tier. You know, I have both ends of the spectrum when it comes to my own son. So I see how it's playing out now. The one that's very advanced, I'm going to treat it the same way. I'm not going to push him to a 9 year old. You know, a showcase for what? There's not a scout, there's not a coach, there's. What are we showcasing?

[A]

Right.

[B]

I don't understand it. So to me it's about development. Teach them the right way, teach them how to play so when they get to an older age and they start developing those skills and what we've taught will start playing out with the strength and everything else so well.

[A]

And it's funny too, because I had Kurt Suzuki on the podcast and this is the manager of the, of the Angels now. But point being is ex major league player who played a long time. You two, you have sons. He has, you know, sons and he talked a lot about, you know, what he was doing with his kids. Here you are saying, I'm not doing these certain things. So if you're a parent listening to this and you don't have the big league experience, I think it, it you would benefit from actually asking yourself, like, if these big league guys are teaching their kid this way, should I be doing that? Rather than thinking, oh, I need to go out there and like, reinvent the wheel and go out there and hire the best guy in the country. Because oftentimes what stresses people out the most is the money that it requires to go to this stuff.

[B]

Yeah, it's that and it's, it's the whole thing of keeping up with the Joneses almost. Right. It's, it's I've got to go do this. And I have to go to this PG and I have to do this in order for my kid to have a chance. They're nine years old. I can't tell you how many parents have told me, you know, 9, 10, 11. When can you tell that my kid's going to be a big leaguer? I'm like, they're little kids. Like, if I had to guess, you're 5, 8, 5, 9. I have a feeling he's not going to be 6, 4. Yeah, like he's the biggest kid on the team now. But just looking at it like, let him develop, let him get stronger, let him learn how to play baseball. Stop banking on the fact that this kid's going to be a big leaguer at 10 years old.

[A]

When I think what a lot of these coaches are doing is they're confusing being advanced. Like, we're one of the best teams in the country with, with being developed. Right. There is very little development now. And again, I think it's because the focus for these families, the focus for these coaches at least, is we have to be the best. Save that for 18 years old.

[B]

Right?

[A]

That is the, that is the 17, 18 years old. When you're actually going into these college conversations, that's the time for every family to evaluate where does my kids stack up? So when you talked about the showcases earlier, you know, oftentimes on this podcast they talk about like there's strategy involved in everything. There shouldn't be any. The, the strategy at 9, 10, 11, 12 years old, 13 years old, even, even 14. I, I typically say 15 years old is when things start to change.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The strategy at that point needs to be what you said. Foundationally speaking, let's develop as baseball players learn the game the right way. Get the baseball iq.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I totally agree because I was, you know, people wanted me, I used to do lessons and I stopped doing it because I realized it wasn't fair. And it wasn't fair because I'm doing lessons with young kids that aren't strong enough to repeat emotion. So there's the, the best kids right now are the strongest kids. The biggest, strongest kids right now. That's not how the base, that's not how the game continues to go. Right. And so when I'm looking at a 10 year old kid who's not strong enough to repeat something, why am I teaching him a hitting lesson? If he can't repeat something just physically, how is he gonna repeat a swing or repeat an arm action? So for me, I've al. I've kind of altered my mindset to be. I'd rather that kid be with a trainer doing jumping, running, skill development as an athlete. So maybe in a couple years I can have him repeat that, and then I can make a better ball player.

[A]

We, I mean, people in the industry, we oftentimes see the kid who's 13, he's got, like, a beard already. Right. And why is that looked upon as a bad thing? Well, it's because he matured early, but that oftentimes is the best kid at that age.

[B]

At that age.

[A]

But then what happens right down the road? Maybe he doesn't develop as much. Maybe he hit his. His growth spurt early, and then other kids start to catch up. So I think it's. It's a good warning for a lot of families just to. To pump the brakes a little bit and recognize, like, what he looks like at 13. There's a reason why these kids don't get drafted till 18. Right.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You got to let it play out.

[B]

Right. And how many guys have gotten drafted really high and haven't sniffed double A? Oh, yeah.

[A]

Happens all the time.

[B]

Happens all the time. So it's just like, ride the wave. To me, your kid could be really good right now. He might go through a year or two of, like, not being the top. Don't give up on your kid either. Keep encouraging him to play. He might have another growth spurt. He might come into it physically. Something's going on. He might come back and be on the top in a couple years again. But people, I think also their kids so good at a young age, they

[A]

want to, and then it doesn't, and

[B]

then they kind of start plateauing, and then it's like, well, I don't know what to do, so we're done playing. It's like, why would you give up on your kid? They're little kids.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I see that a lot, too.

[A]

Yeah. So what would, like, if you guys go to a tournament, like, what's a successful weekend tournament for these kids that are 9, 10 years old? What does that look like?

[B]

What I mean, for me, success is, did we play better? Not necessarily. Did we win? Do I want to win as a competitor? 100%. Do I want my kids to have the success of winning? 1000%? But also, did they play better defense? Did we throw more strikes? Did we make better decisions defensively, baserunning without me having to tell them, you know, 35 times? Are they starting to learn to do it on their own? Are they getting on base and checking the Outfielders on their own, the depth of outfielders. So when I see that stuff, even if we lose, I'm like, you know what? The defense was way better. We threw more strikes. Yeah. I tell the kids all the time, you can lose and be h. Be okay. Played a great game of loss. I said, you can win and play terrible.

[A]

That's interesting.

[B]

I said, you could win and just play terrible. You played down your competition. You made a ton of errors in. Things just happened to roll your way that day. You could also play a great game. Hit the ball hard, make every play, and nothing fell. But you played a clean game. If you. That's okay.

[A]

Yeah. If you have players on your team, let's just say they have what they would call, like, a bad weekend. Right. They struck out, you know, six times that weekend, and you can see it on their face, like, they're really down. What's your message to them?

[B]

That we trust them. Yeah. That. Hey, buddy, you know how many times I struck out? And I struck out a lot. Yeah. You know how many times I struck out? It's okay. It's part of the game.

[A]

Part of the game.

[B]

We'll learn. It's okay. I'm not going to. Oh, you struck out three times. I'm not putting you down the lineup. I'm not doing anything. Just, let's move forward. We got stuff to work on. You gotta be on time. You have to learn to adjust to velocity. You gotta learn when to be on time, stuff like that. So just to talk to them. So then we go to the cages and we work on, you know, different stuff through the week. But I'm actually a little bit harder on their defense than pitching. Those strikes make plays.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Hitting is gonna come and go. You guys will learn to hit. You'll learn to hit off speed and adjust pitching and defense. Let's. We. We can kind of control those.

[A]

And. And you. You can see these players when they have these bad weekends and they're really down. And here's one of the hardest things about is these. You know, there's always something to learn from a game. Right. As a big league player, like, you could strike out, but actually, if you go back and you look at the. The at bat, you're like, oh, I swung at this pitch out of the zone. I probably shouldn't have. Right. I got, you know, I didn't swing on this pitch. They called it a strike. It was actually a ball. You can walk away from a strikeout and be like, it actually wasn't a terrible at bat. I'm okay. But these kids, they don't play that many baseball games. And so they'll walk away and be like, no, it's the result. The result is the only thing that matters. And what's funny about that is you can have a good at bat and get out and a bat at bat and get a hit, but the kid, if he gets a hit, oh, man, it shows up on the box score and like, I'm good. And that can also send the wrong message.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I feel like some of the, some of the teaching moments are really helping these guys understand. Look, let's take some of the positives even away from what you would think is a bad game. What did we do well today? What did you do well today?

[B]

Right. And we, we talk about that after games. I don't like to pull the kids to a side after games or tournaments and talk to them a lot. I just don't think there's a reason to harp on every single thing we do right now. If we play a game, hey, we did this really bad. We walked eight guys today. Right. But we played great defense, you know, while it was hard to play defense behind eight walks, because the fact that you're on your heels. But you guys did a good job, you know, staying in tune with the game. But yeah, you know, to, to what you're talking about, to your point, it's. There's always something to learn. And, you know, we always look at the results too much in baseball because it's such a result driven sport. But I can remember after I retired, thinking about my bass and talking to kids, like, man, I struck out and I go back and before, I always look at my swing, my swing, and

[A]

I was like, like, it was always mechanical.

[B]

It's a mechanical adjustment. It's a swing adjustment. Did I swing in a strike?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Did I swing a ball over my.

[A]

That's the biggest indicator whether or not you probably had a successful at bat. Right.

[B]

You know, and I started thinking about it. I'm like, how many bats did I go back and look at? I'm like, I wasn't even looking if I swung at a strike, I was looking. Is my swing okay? Well, what does that matter? You swung at two pitches that were out of the zone. Yeah. So, you know, I look at the things, you know, a little bit different. I talk to our kids, you know, they'll swing 3.0and hit something off the end of the bat and just, you know, squirm something in or 20 and get jammed. And, well, I Got the hit. I'm like, yeah, but you're just swinging. Like, you're just auto swinging. It's not just an auto swing. Get your pitch. It's okay to take a pitch right there.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So I try to teach like that, and, you know, I get a lot of flack for it because I have a different approach to stuff. And, you know, people will say, well, it's because, you know, you don't have the town or you don't have this. And I was like, but I have a really good team. And maybe I don't have all the talent across the board of my team, but our kids are pretty knowledgeable about baseball.

[A]

When I think a mistake a lot of families could make when they. When they watch maybe your teams or how you talk to a player, they're like, oh, yeah, but you are a big leaguer. It just came easy for you.

[B]

People say that. Or they'll say, I don't know what I'm talking about. A lot of people tell me, I don't know what I'm talking about. Which.

[A]

It's comical.

[B]

Yeah. And I don't know what to. How to respond to that, but I'm like, what do I say back? Like, yeah.

[A]

Honestly, I feel like there's nothing if someone. If someone thinks a player who reached the highest level of his craft doesn't know what he's talking about, I think that says more about the person saying it than it does actually. You.

[B]

Right. And I try to work with all of our kids, and I don't cut my kids on my team. I never do. I don't hold tryouts to replace my kids. I keep the kids that I have, and I try to make them better. So that's something I do do different. And fortunately, the dads and the coaches that I have have done a great job. But for me to be able to play at the level that we play at, never cut kids to improve our teams, I feel like we do a pretty decent job teaching the kids.

[A]

I want to talk about what you're doing with your boys, because I think a lot of these families who didn't have the experience, maybe they stopped playing in high school, maybe they never even played baseball, but their son is good. Oftentimes. Want to know, like, how do we get better? What are. What are some of the things that you're teaching your boys right now? Just as far as the game goes, like, when you're having them take ground balls, what does that look like when you're having them take swings, what does that look like.

[B]

Yeah. So when I'm with the kids, we always start, you know, when we go to practice, we always start with basically our glove work. I want them to start with their glove work.

[A]

Spoken like a true shortstop.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I want everything to start with the glove work. And, you know, before everyone saw all the big leaguers doing it, you know, which was never done. We never used to do that on a daily basis. That was a spring training thing. Get ready. But it's good to just, you know, reinforce good habits with the little kids.

[A]

And what does that look like? Like working on their glove work.

[B]

Yeah. Get on our knees, roll 10 ground balls. One hand, 10, two hand. And then, you know, go to your glove. One hand, two hands. And then short hops. One hand, two hands. I don't go backhand, I don't go forehand. I never teach the kids to really backhand the ball because I don't want them to get lazy at a young age. I want them to try to get around as much as I can. I said, the ball will dictate when you have to back. You'll know when you have to backhand the ball. Don't set up for a backhand. So we'll go through that and then. Honestly, I. I probably hit 300 ground balls a day at practice. We take a ton of ground balls, we split the kids in half, we hit a ton of ground balls, ton of fly balls just to work on the basis of catching, securing the ball. Secure every single ball. And then when it goes to hitting, the hitting stuff's tough because as a team, there's so much that we're trying to accomplish, whether it's velocity or teaching them how to hit an off speed pitch mechanically. So many kids at a young age see a hitting coach. I don't want to confuse what their hitting coach is saying versus what I'm saying. I don't want two different thoughts in their head. So if there's minor adjustments, I see their feet are crooked or I see their hands or they're really pulling off a ball, I'll say something to make adjustments. But I mean, really like, you know, Freddie Freeman, Charlie plays on my team, on my son's team.

[A]

Oh, nice.

[B]

I have Freddie there a lot. And Freddie, you know, talks about, like, not overcoaching him, letting him be athletic. Let him figure it out.

[A]

Freddie Freeman.

[B]

So Freddie Freeman saying this.

[A]

Freddie Freeman is talking about not overcoaching your kids.

[B]

And he always says, like, I don't want mechanical stuff with Charlie. And I always think that's great because. Let the kids be athletic. Because the biggest thing I go back and look at my career is how much overcoaching there was and is in baseball.

[A]

All right. I'm curious, though. Does. Does Charlie. Is he lefty?

[B]

No, he's righty.

[A]

He's a righty.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Center field there.

[A]

Does the swing look the same as right hand? Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's funny.

[B]

But he plays center field. Wants to play center field.

[A]

Premium position, man.

[B]

Yeah. You know, and he, He. He's athletic. He gets after it. And. But he. He always says that. And so I never try to say too much. Um, I've always tried to let the kids, like, they'll figure it out. They're athletic kids. Bodies move naturally. They have to. When you swing or run, there's movements they have to do. When we overcoach it, we take that out, we take that away.

[A]

Yeah. And there's a time and a place down the road for those. Those adjustments mechanically, but as a young kid. Yeah, you want them. You do not want them to start having these swing thoughts this early.

[B]

No. And I see it at 12 and 13 years old, I ask, you know, kids, what they're talking, you know, what are you thinking about? And, you know, they tell me why I'm doing this. I'm like, were you thinking about seeing the ball? I went through a lot of big league at bats where I was thinking about mechanics and not seeing the ball.

[A]

Yeah. How'd you do?

[B]

I mean, my numbers will tell you how bad I do.

[A]

Probably not good when you're thinking about that.

[B]

Yeah. You know, so, you know, I think about these kids, and I'm like, if they have this many thoughts at 12, 11, what are the thoughts going to be at 17, 18? When you're trying to make minor adjustments, rather than having a kid who's an athlete and his kind of naturally just kind of made little adjustments here and there. Hey, stay through the ball. Hey, do this. But nothing big, mechanical. Now, the adjustments are smaller because naturally, as an athlete, they're just going to move. There's not too much thought in their head.

[A]

Do you guys do t work?

[B]

We do t work. We do soft toss from the side. We do front toss. Do I throw a lot of bp? There's times where I'll use the machine because it's easier to just set it up away and put velocity away where the majority of the pitches are. But, yeah, I do step back for a lot of the kids. I teach them to step back, drill in the walkthrough. Drill off a T, you know, soft toss. Just so their bodies learn to move athletically, not mechanically.

[A]

Oh, interesting.

[B]

I just want them to understand that your lower half and driving through the ball, it's what it is, it's momentum. Like as an athlete, your body continues to move.

[A]

For anybody listening who doesn't know what step back is, help them understand what that is.

[B]

So a lot of people will talk about it. It's worked in different ways. But most people that do the step back drill, you're in your stance, you get into a narrow stance, you step back with your right foot, and then you drive forward. What we use it as is a way to teach the kids to get into their, into their, to their legs without, you know, over complicating it. Right. Get back, get your weight back to your backside, drive forward. And so for a lot of people I know at the big league level, I do it. It's because they tend to go forward quick. They never get to their backside. That's why I use it. But I use it because it's an easy way to teach the kids how to feel their legs and how to get into their backside to be able to drive forward. So it's an easy teaching tool rather than trying to teach an 8 year old or a 9 year old how to use your legs in a swing.

[A]

Yeah, because they don't even know what that means.

[B]

No, I mean, I didn't know what it meant forever.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, going into college, I didn't understand what that meant. I just used my hands. Right. And everything else would follow it, you know, would kind of come together. But now being able to have that drill where the kids can step back, feel everything, get back into the backside and then drive forward, they move athletically and they can actually feel the difference.

[A]

Yeah. So I oftentimes talk about the focus for a lot of families, especially with these showcases in these tournaments, is exposure. Right. I gotta go be seen by people. And I think the rankings on some level add pressure to that. And, you know, if you had to say that the focus for a lot of people is exposure, next is probably the competition, then next is the development. But the development is always like the last thing people worry about. And I always tell people, just flip it upside down, right? Have development be the focus. And when development is a focus, then naturally there's so much other pressure that gets taken off where you start to look at, okay, if my focus is development, then I can utilize the competition by going to these tournaments and really playing against better competition. And then when the time is right. Exposure becomes a natural byproduct of that. Now what's interesting is everybody thinks, oh, let's just say for a nine year old, like, well, when's the exposure coming? The exposure doesn't matter. Literally until your junior season in high school when the kid is 16, 17 years old.

[B]

Yeah. Right.

[A]

And so I'm curious, from your standpoint, how many parents do you ever wrestle with who think the exposure needs to be more front and center of the focus?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I just had a conversation with, with one of my own teams about exposure. And you know, we need, you know,

[A]

we need to go to different states,

[B]

we need more exposure, we need more exposure. And I said, for what?

[A]

And oftentimes they don't have an answer because they don't like, oh, and this is what everyone else is.

[B]

This is a very talented team coached by a great person with a great group of dads, like, great families. Like, I love the, the very, very talented team. Very big, very physical teams. Big families. Like the kids are going to be big kids. Right. I just, my question was what do what exposure, like, you know, what exposure do you want? I said exposure to go to your local high school. Yeah, we're going to go to high school. Like your local school or one of the local private schools. They're going to take whatever kid at a private school is best that comes in. And if you're going to a public school, they're taking whoever's in district. What do you want exposure to?

[A]

So they have no answer.

[B]

Well, what do you, could you answer that?

[A]

No, because usually what the answer is is like, well, but everyone else is doing it.

[B]

Right. And I, well, you know, well, you know, it's something similar to that. But. And he finally, I think he kind of understood where I was. I understand that they want exposure. They want to play on a bigger platform or whether it's a social media post, whatever it is. And I just said, look at like, I want to work more with this team. I want them in the gym, I want them to do more running, more training, more physical development. The exposure will come because you guys are winning as is and you guys have done such a good job. Look at where you, you guys started and where you're at now. You're getting exposure because you're becoming successful the right way.

[A]

The right way.

[B]

But I don't know whether it's one of my own teams or whether it's any other team. What exposure do you want?

[A]

Yeah, they don't, they, they definitely don't have an answer. And even when you. I imagine when you even say this to them, they're like, I. I don't. I don't know. Like, isn't that what we should be interested in? I think sometimes the problem, though, is the exposure piece becomes this obvious thing like, well, why else would we be playing? Aren't we playing to be seen by everybody, for everyone to say, ooh, they're the best. Ooh, this kid's the best. Yeah. At 16, okay. But at nine, at 10.

[B]

How many teams do you have between softball and baseball? Yeah. 30.

[A]

I want to talk about softball, actually, real fast because I have parents all the times that are like that. You know, they ask questions too. How is this similar to softball or a. This is so, so much. Well, so walk me through why you think it's different.

[B]

So to me, a college. Getting a college scholarship is making the big leagues. So if I had a daughter. Right. I would put a lot more into her younger ages of development and time. Because you're to be in college on a scholarship. That is the big leagues, in my opinion.

[A]

Yeah. There's.

[B]

That's the pinnacle.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like outside of the USA team, the Olympics, that's the pinnacle of. Of the sport. Right.

[A]

That's winning.

[B]

Yeah. With nil now they are making money. Oh, yeah. And guess what? If I get my. If my daughter gets a scholarship and let's say over, I don't know, her youth, I spent X amount of dollars, and I don't have to pay for a 5, $600,000 scholarship. She won. We won.

[A]

We put it.

[B]

We developed her the right way. We put money in the right stuff. She got a great education. We don't have student loans. She got an ill deal. That makes so much more sense. Right. Baseball is not that way. We don't have the amount of scholarships to give out. Right. And there's still so much beyond that.

[A]

Well, and you brought up an interesting point. And I do think the focus for families oftentimes becomes what we're doing this for. And I think families look at this like it's a business decision. Right. If I spend $60,000 from the time my son is 10 to 18 and we get a scholarship and it paid for itself. It was worth it. And I think the danger with that is you're placing these expectations on these kids at this young age to where. So you're telling me that it wasn't worth it if he gets to 18 and he never plays baseball again.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But what about the life lessons that he learned through the Process like, so I think I would encourage families to at least recognize or at least ask yourself, are you doing this because you're planning on this being a smart business decision or you doing it because your son loves it and you need to be honest with yourself because I think a lot of times family's like, no, no, we're doing it because my son loves it. Yeah, but your body language and the way that you talk to him and, and how forceful you are with what you want him to do and how you're evaluating if this was good or not or if my son has a bad tournament and on the car ride home, everybody talks about it. You're just crushing the kid. You're sending the message to him that he is a business decision. And it's not that he's your son and you're trying to put him in an advantageous position or in the softball case, your daughter.

[B]

Yeah. And I think, I think it's a combination. Right. I've told my older son, you know, this isn't what you want to do. Just tell me it's okay. Like you want to go run track, you want to play basketball, you want to do something, it's fine. Tell me you don't have to play baseball because dad played baseball. That's okay. I have no problem with it. I would still coach that same nine year old team. I've had those kids since they were five years old from Pony. Like, I've always be with that team. And I have my 7 year old who wants to go to batting cages every single day, wants to put catch every single day, wants to do all that. My 9 year old wants to pitch.

[A]

Oh, interesting.

[B]

That's all he wants to do. That's what he enjoys. Right? And so to me, I'm like, find what you love. And then I'm here, I'm here if you want to do that. Yeah, right. Like my dad was always come home from work and like, if you want to go to the cages, I'm here. It's on you. You got to want to do this.

[A]

And I imagine your sons, when you have, when you take that approach, won't feel the pressure if you did the opposite, which is pitch. No, no, man, we're not pitching. What are you talking about? That's not where your future is. And instead you, you started to place on him these like unreasonable expectations. Naturally, he's going to be responding to that feeling a ton of pressure. Like he can never live up to your expectation, never fill your shoes.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I mean, think about that. That's gotta be hard for any kid. But that is what happens all the time, right?

[B]

And look at my, my, my nine year old, his struggle. He's the 11th on the, on our out of 11 man roster, you know, and even playing at the majors level, it's, it's tough for him. It's very, very, very tough for him to play at that level. But when he pitches, he kind of throws under the speed limit and he kind of gets people off balance, you know. But he enjoys it. That's the part that he enjoys. Right. Rather than my 7 year old. Wants to play short, wants to catch, wants to be in the middle, hits second, you know what I mean? Like, loves the game. And so I try to play to both of them actually, you know, my wife's really good at doing that as well. Just, hey, let em, let them figure it out.

[A]

How does she enjoy this?

[B]

I think she enjoys it. I think there's times of like, frustration of like, you know, if they don't want to play or if they don't want to, don't force it, like, don't. And she kind of probably gets frustrated with me a little bit because I get to the point of like one of my kids who wants to do it 24 7, my other one's like, I just want to pitch.

[A]

So you're like caught between.

[B]

I'm like caught between and I have one who's type A, one who's not. So I'm like, I have polar opposite kids and so I think it's frustrating at times that, to not like, oh well, they're not similar in sport or similar in personality. But I think, you know, she enjoys it, she enjoys watching the kids. I'll go out and play. It's long. We play so many games and it's, I play, I play less than probably everybody.

[A]

Like how many, how many tournaments will you guys go to over the course of a year?

[B]

We'll end up between 80 and 95 games.

[A]

So I just did an episode on this, 70 games. And the interesting thing, naturally, as you would expect, parents, you know, of course think it's like black and white, like, oh, this is the, I have to play this. But it's like, no, start with like what is, what are we trying to accomplish right now? Right. Like there's a, there's a pathway for every player depending on the age where you don't have to go to everything. Yeah, but do you, if you love this, if you want to play, go play.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But if you don't, you do it's not like if you hit this certain number of games, then naturally, you know, everything opens up and, and your future shows itself.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No. I mean, I, I, you know, my youngest wants to play, you know, all the time.

[A]

Is it year round you play games?

[B]

We play from. So From September to January 1st, we play once every three weeks. One tournament every three weeks. Only I, I tear it down, let the kids play. No Friday night.

[A]

Yeah, that's not bad.

[B]

Yeah. So no Friday night practices because they all play Friday Night Lights football. So we restructure it that way. When January 1st hits to the middle of June, we play two a month. Whether it's back to back or every other week. It's. We kind of give the teams option of how they want to do it. So that gets you, depending on how many turn, you know, deep you get into tournaments, gets you between like 80 and 95 games for the season. And then we take all of July and August off.

[A]

So you brought up football. Right. What are your thoughts on players playing multiple sports?

[B]

Oh, man, I thought I was right with saying that everyone should play multiple sports, and I still think that's right. And then Bo Jackson came out and was like, I think they'll be behind. And I was like, this is the guy who was like the best athlete ever is saying on an interview if they're not sports specific at a young age, they'll be too far behind.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

When I heard him say that, I went, man, like, this is a guy that did everything and excelled beyond everybody at everything. He's saying the opposite.

[A]

Right. That is interesting.

[B]

So I think at a young age you play everything and just like everybody does, you kind of start, you know, going to the sport that you love or enjoy more or you're the best at out of the two or three sports you play, but you continue to play the other ones. But maybe one's year round, maybe the other one you play seasonally.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so that's how I look at it. If baseball is your priority, you play football seasonally, you play basketball seasonally. But if there's a conflict, I go to baseball.

[A]

Yeah. So I've been very complimentary of people that allow their kids to play multiple sports. Primarily because I did. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think again, talk about, like, what's the main focus if a parent is wanting a kid to play two sports because they want to get something out of it? Oh, he's going to be a better baseball player. So then play two sports. What I encourage people is like, play multiple sports. If he's enjoying it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Obviously, there's going to come a point in time, and you said it, where if the kid is better at baseball, and let's just say he's now in high school and he's also playing football and he's like, I don't really love football anymore. I did it for five, six years. Naturally, he's gotten the benefit of playing multiple sports, but now he's choosing to be safer. Maybe it's the injury risk, whatever he's concerned about. But I think where I always push back on people is when they're like, no, no, no, but he needs to do it because it's going to make him a better baseball player. I mean, yeah, on some level, but if he's played for five or six years and he doesn't love football anymore, it's. It's actually okay to then peel back a little bit.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's just never black and white. And that's where I say it all the time. Like, this whole thing isn't cookie cutter. There's not one right way to do it.

[B]

No. And I, and I kind of said that at a young age, like, hey, let the kids play multiple sports. But it was to make them a better athlete.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It wasn't to make them a better baseball player. It was because I always thought that they'd just make him a better athlete. And if you have a better athlete, naturally everything you do is just you're going to be better at. As they get older, you start focusing on something that you love more, something that you're better at.

[A]

Well, there also becomes like a time commitment piece to it too. Right.

[B]

Like it's too hard. And you have multiple kids as a family. It's just too. How do you get to every single thing? And I. And there's people that do it. I don't know how they do it, but there's people that do it. And I mean, they're playing five games a week, you know, different sports. You can play four on a weekend of baseball in a tournament, and you're playing one or two basketball or something else during the week. I mean, you end up at five to seven, five to eight games a week.

[A]

Yeah. So I played, I played hockey, baseball, football, basketball.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I got to high school and my dad came up to me and he goes, look, this hockey piece is hard on us because we're having to drive hours every Saturday. You know, ice time is. Was five in the morning. And so he said to me, he goes, if you want to choose to Play hockey, like, that's your path, then let's just do hockey. But if you want to do all these other sports, like, we can play basketball, football, baseball, whatever, but we're going to have to give up hockey. What do you want to do? And I said, I'm kind of done with hockey. Let's move on to the other things. But I give my dad a ton of credit because he was working every day, Right. Like, this guy's working, you know, five days a week at the office every day. And then on Saturday, we were waking up at like three in the morning to get me to. So I recognize the challenge that that was for him. But he asked me what I wanted to do. He didn't tell me, oh, no, you have to do hockey or you. Because hockey was probably my best sport.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But he asked me what did I want to do. And so that's where I would, I would encourage families, like, you have to talk to the kid.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Let the kid determine it. Don't, don't place upon them this expectation, because that's where a ton of negative stuff stems from it.

[B]

Yeah. And I, I, you know, I'm guilty of it as a parent that you play all these sports. And it's like when I get a weekend or two off and I'm sitting in the house and I'm like, the kids are riding their bike and stuff in the neighborhood. I'm like, they're kids. These are little kids. Yeah. We forget that they're little kids. This is not their job. Every at bat should not be life or death. Life or death. You know, the one thing I will say that I never do after the games is that I don't talk to my kids after the games. My sons in the car. I don't say a word.

[A]

I love that. Tell me why. Because that's. I'm a big fan of this.

[B]

Why? Okay, so I said this to my parents when I was in the big leagues. We would talk about my games, especially if, if I was in town playing San Diego or the Dodgers, we would talk about the game afterwards. I'm like, you don't think I already know? I just, I just lived it. You don't think that at bat's going through my head already? I've already gone through that at bat 50 times. Yeah, I know what it's like. I don't need to rehash it one more time and explain it to someone else. Right.

[A]

What good is it going to do by us talking about it?

[B]

And my mom and dad were the the most supportive my whole life, drove me everywhere, took me to everything, were the most supportive. And to this day, they still are. Everything I do, my parents are there for me. But I remember having that conversation being like, I already know what happened. I don't need it. I don't need to go again. So I can get upset with my kids during the game. I can. Hey, this bad attitude. You didn't do this. Whatever it is. Right. When we get in the car, I don't say anything.

[A]

Well, and you know what that'll do long term too, is because you don't say anything when the player wants to know what you think, they'll ask you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Hey, dad, what do you think? And maybe that's not going to happen yet at their age, but come 12, 13, 14, they know that you're not the dad who's getting in the car. And it's like, here we go again.

[B]

Right, Right. And I, I don't want that. I don't want that. I mean, everyone that has that, they also have the opposite of like that same dad when they don't say anything, it's like the fear of the quiet ride.

[A]

Oh, of course.

[B]

So it's like, it's never good.

[A]

Yeah. He wants to say something, but he's just forcing himself not.

[B]

And the kid knows. Yeah. So to me, I'm just like, I get in and just. We don't really talk about it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, if they get right after the game, I'll say, hey, good job. And then we get in the car and talk about something else. Or hey, let's go get food. Or I try not. I don't ever say a word about it.

[A]

So I want to talk about your career a little bit. At what age do you rem. Like, do you remember when it became baseball became really serious for you?

[B]

Played three sports all the way to my freshman year. And going to modern day, my dad kind of made it clear, like, you're five, three. I don't think you're making the football team. Yeah. I don't think you're making the basketball team.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, and I, I loved all three sports. But as a freshman, that was always, that was always the route I wanted to go, was baseball. I love baseball. And when I was 16 and I made the USA team was the. Was when it really clicked in my head that like, I could do this. This is, this is close. And it's funny because I always hear people say, ah, I never would have expected that, like you do as an athlete. You've Set goals. You set your mind to. Like, why would I do anything if I don't want to get to the top? Right. You know, like, oh, this is so unexpected. Yeah, I understand that statement, but that wasn't a goal. Like, that had to be your goal.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Right. Like, to me, that's what it was. And at 16, when I made that team, I started realizing, like, okay, I'm not, you know, Justin Upton, all these guys are on the team. Like, these top guys. Like, we're all. We're all here, you know, And I was a part of that 05 class out of high school and that oh, five college, which was too low, and Braun and Zim and like, one of the best drafts ever. Right. And so I'm now playing with these guys at 16. I'm like, oh, man, this is. This is unreal. So I can't be too far off. And at that point was. Whereas it kind of was turning point for me where it was like, if I'm gonna do this, it's gonna be every day. Lifting, running, everything. And I already did hit and took ton of ground balls every day. But now it was like, let's get the lifting component in it. Speed component, all of that. Because I wasn't fast, I became fast, but I was really slow. My first two years of high school.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I remember the first 60 I ran.

[A]

What was it?

[B]

Seven, eight.

[A]

Wow. And then what was the best 60 you ran?

[B]

Six, four. Wow.

[A]

That's insane.

[B]

But that tells you the development of a kid from 14 years old. Yeah. To 21.

[A]

Well, because my next question was, was going to be, did your development come in stages or was it, like, all of a sudden?

[B]

No, I always had. I could always switch it. I was always had a plus arm. I could always defend. I was. But I was slow. I remember going into high school, my dad was like. And John Elliott, who has the Quakes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Who's a longtime scout and stuff. Like, become a catcher. Switch hitting catcher. You don't have to worry about running. You got a big arm. Let's go behind the fight. And I was like, cool. My dad caught at U of A. And I thought, oh, this is good. Rest. I can do this. And then I started getting faster and faster and faster. I was like, stay in the middle.

[A]

I think he made a wise decision. So what was it about how your parents handled you that you think actually helped put you in a position to have the success you did?

[B]

They supported me always.

[A]

They didn't force anything on you?

[B]

Nope. I can remember a dad asking My dad, how do you get Danny to come out here every day and take ground balls and hit? And he's like, I don't, I don't. Yeah, he, he, he asked me to come out and he was like, I wish my kid would do that. So it was never pushed that way. It was me waiting for dad to get home from work, let's go to Batticages, me setting up the soft toss night, waiting for dad to get home to do soft toss in the batting, you know, in the, in the garage. But it was never my dad going, hey, we got to get going, we got to do this.

[A]

What do you think would have happened if you didn't have that desire and he tried to force it on you?

[B]

I don't know. Maybe at some point I would like it, but if it was something I never liked, it would just that it

[A]

would have petered out. You probably would stop wanting to play.

[B]

And that's why I'm that way with my nine year old. Like, he wants to pitch.

[A]

Go for it.

[B]

If that's what you love, find something about the game that you love and go do it. But if you don't want to go to the cage and take ground balls and, you know, don't. I don't want to force that either. Like, yeah, you got to go to team practice and stuff, but if you want to pitch, let's focus on pitching. And like, that's what you love, that's what you enjoy doing. Let's do that.

[A]

Well, I bring that up because I've gotten that question from a lot of parents. Same thing, the dad who asked your dad, how do you make him do that? They want to know the same thing, like, what if my son actually isn't the kid who wants to go do it all the time? What can I do as a dad to make him do? And I think the only answer that really makes sense to me is you can't. You're not going to be able to force him to be Danny espinosa as a 14 year old.

[B]

Right. I mean, I think about it and it was something so small. But I told my kids when we started going in the back, we go to Home Run Parksville over by Knott's Berry Farm. And I went there, but then Sean Green had a baseball academy over here off 55 and MacArthur. When I was a kid, I used to hit there. And Ira and Judy Green, his parents always took care of me, gave me, you know, tokens and stuff that hit extra. And the one thing I always remember is that I would get a sun

[A]

kiss after I hit, of course, Sunkissed and orange slices.

[B]

But that was like my treat. I got to hit, I get a sun kissed. And so I was like, I remember that to this day of just like, I get to hit and I could enjoy my soda. And that was like so funny.

[A]

I love that you remember that. Like that's like the, the thing that resonates a lot is.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And that's. And that was like, no, my dad gave me, you know, a dollar, whatever it was, and I'd go get my Sunkiss. Yeah. Tell the greens thank you and go home.

[A]

I love that. If you had to compare the game when you were 14 to today, what do you think is better now?

[B]

Talent wise or the structure?

[A]

Either one. Like what, what jumps out as something that. Something that is just maybe you have the benefit of it today that you didn't back when you played.

[B]

You play more games now, which I don't know if that's good or bad because everything's the tournament. So there's no leagues anymore. Rather than. When I was 14, we would play doubleheaders on Sundays, right? Yeah, but there was, we didn't play tournaments all year long. You would play the one championship in Florida for the year. You know, there wasn't, you know, the world champions every other week in a different state, in a different city, which is what they have now because it's all money, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I think it was the same. And this is the reason why I'll say it the same is because on travel ball, everyone couldn't play travel ball because travel ball was only for the top tier kid. So kids played. Literally kids played this travel ball was only for the top tier kid. Travel ball now has divisions of travel ball. Everyone can play travel ball.

[A]

Yeah, right. That's a good point.

[B]

So when I played travel ball, I remember Connie Mack. Connie Mack was only for the elite of the elite. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, I played American Legion, right. When I played, we didn't even have travel. It was like just starting.

[B]

Right. So it was a league at the time still. So you didn't. What I liked about that time is that you weren't playing five games in a weekend, stressing kids arms. Playing one game midweek, maybe one game on the weekend. Then at the end of the year, as Connie Mack got deep and you went into the playoff run, you went to try to win the whole thing nationally, it became more of tournament based, you know, so I, I did like, I like that structure better even now. But you know What I didn't have to compete against at 14 holdbacks.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Now people want to hold their kids

[A]

back because they're going to be better.

[B]

Because they're going to be better. And these kids that are 14 years old are playing against 15, 16 year old kids. Now if you're holding back because you're going to graduate at 17 years old, I understand that hold back. Yeah. Naturally get to your grade when you're holding back because you know they want to be a big leader. If you're really undersized, I understand that too. But there's certain kids that shouldn't be hold back and because of the way, you know, PG and all these, they, they allow, you know, unlimited holdbacks, unlimited reclassified kids. But now at 13 years old, they're 12 years old. You're playing against a team that's. If you look at the birth, It's. It's a 13 year old team. What does that do?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. It build your ego, I guess.

[B]

Who's the parents? Yeah. Or the organization? Who wants to win that bad that they play down?

[A]

Both.

[B]

And I'm not going to say that it's like bad on any org or anything because I'll get a bunch of flack for saying it. But what does it do? What does it do for the kid? Unless the kid needs it. What does it do?

[A]

Yeah, Nothing. Wow. Yeah, that's a great, that's a great point.

[B]

But it's all over baseball, you see it everywhere. I mean, you see the holdback starting young. I understand the eighth grade holdback when he's 15 and there's not a 15 new division because that class is in high school.

[A]

Well, the new rule in the NCAA that they're talking about right now, the 5 and 5.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That should correct that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

If it gets passed. I mean, basically at 19 years old, like the clock starts. So even if you hold them back and you're trying to lose you. That's right. Yeah.

[B]

And it should correct. That'll correct some of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it needs to be corrected down to your age because you shouldn't be a 13 year old playing 12 year old.

[A]

No, I agree.

[B]

Just on a safety aspect of a line drive with those hot bass that they use. Now, line drive at that distance to 50ft is on a kid's head in two seconds. I mean it's.

[A]

Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. I think if we can. Again, this is. It always stems. Put the kids first. Think about the kids livelihood first before anything else.

[B]

But they want to play down because they want to win.

[A]

Yeah, that's right.

[B]

Not the kids. The kids don't know.

[A]

No, this is where it all stems from. Right. The parents trying to insert themselves into a kid's sport or the.

[B]

Or.

[A]

Or.

[B]

It's the organization owners that they. They want to win. And so, hey, I'm gonna put this kid down. He plays, you know, 11 you, but I'll put him down to 10 you. Yeah. And it's like, if he's within the parameters of, like, the grade that it set or the age that it says, that's fine. But when you're holding, like, great exemption, hold back, where they're a whole year older than everybody, what does that do for that kid? Yeah, I remember when I was young, you want to play up, you don't want to play down.

[A]

No. Yeah. You wanted to play against the.

[B]

Want to play against the better guys. Up. Sure.

[A]

Yeah. That's. That's just.

[B]

So how did we go that far backwards to be playing backwards?

[A]

We're focused on the wrong thing. All right, so last question, because this has been super valuable. You get to the end of your son's career, let's just say, in high school, and they don't go on and play at the next level. What. What is success look like for you? Like, what is. What do your sons tell you that makes you feel like, you know, we did a good job? Because I think a lot of people would say, if he gets a scholarship, we did a good job. If he gets drafted, we did a good job. And I would tell you, there's plenty of kids that got a scholarship, plenty of kids that got drafted, and their relationship with their parents isn't what it should be, they have the wrong expectation. What would success look like if your boys don't achieve that stuff but you go, it wasn't about that.

[B]

It's probably hard to say for me, like, honestly, because. But if my kids said, I love

[A]

you, yeah, thanks for taking the time. And. And, yeah. And. And you described your parents, right? Like, they were always there for you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you didn't make it, My parents always said.

[B]

My dad used to say my mom and dad said the best thing ever. Whether you play one more day, I always love you.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

So for me, like, it makes me

[A]

emotional because we're ending there, man. That's, like, the best line, honestly.

[B]

That's. But if my kids, like, they don't play another day and they're older and they're like, I love you. Yeah, let's go hunting. Let's go fishing. Let's go. Let's go do something. I think I did a good job as a parent.

[A]

Yeah. Spoken from a big leaguer, too. Like, honestly, that is the stuff that matters.

[B]

That's what. That's what. At the end of the day, that's what matters. Hopefully you make memories along the way, but that's what matters.

[A]

I still remember my high school coaches, my little league coaches again, because I didn't play travel ball, and I remember how they made me feel. I remember. I mean, I could even reflect back on, you know, my dad actually did talk to me in the car, and it was one of those things. I'm like, here you go again right now. I undoubtedly love my father, and my father knows, like, we've had conversations about this stuff, and I learned a great deal from it, but I've just. I've seen the opposite happen. I've seen guys at the highest level achieve all of their dreams, get to the big leagues, and you see they still have this frustration with how their parent handled them at 12. Yeah.

[B]

And they have no relationship with them.

[A]

Right. Right.

[B]

You know, and it's like, it's. It's crazy to think that what good is that?

[A]

And then you're trying to repair a relationship down the road, so. Buddy, I appreciate it, man. This was fun.

[B]

I love it. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. Love it. Ra.