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How Setbacks Shape Champions: The Untold Side of Making It to the Big Leagues

Most Valuable Agent with Matt Hannaford

Wed Nov 12 2025

Summary

Podcast Summary: Most Valuable Agent with Matt Hannaford

Episode: How Setbacks Shape Champions: The Untold Side of Making It to the Big Leagues
Date: November 12, 2025
Host: Matt Hannaford
Guests: Zach Cole (Houston Astros), Joe (mindset coach)

Episode Overview

This episode delves deeply into how dealing with adversity, setbacks, and personal growth is vital in the journey to baseball’s highest level. Host Matt Hannaford, joined by his client and friend Zach Cole, recently debuted with the Houston Astros, and Joe, Zach’s mindset coach, expose the untold side of what it means to become a “champion.” The discussion centers not just on physical skill development, but on mentality, identity, perseverance, faith, and the critical influence of family and coaching support. This is a candid, inspiring conversation for athletes, parents, and baseball enthusiasts.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Zach Cole’s Story: From Struggles to Dream Debut

Debut Highlights: Zach homered on the first MLB pitch he saw and robbed a home run in the same inning—a “storybook” debut.
[00:27] Matt: “You arguably had the best debut of anybody that I can remember… you hit a home run in your very first pitch… you robbed a home run in the very first inning, which… set the tone for the debut.”
Setbacks Before Success: The year before, Zach ended his season on a low—back-to-back games with four strikeouts (the “golden sombrero”). [01:40] Zach: “I specifically remember getting the gold sombreros two games in a row to end the season…”

2. Early Adversity and Parental Influence

Not a Childhood Prodigy: Zach struggled to stand out as a kid and even considered quitting at age 10 after sitting out an entire tournament. [02:29] Zach: “From a young age, I struggled for a long time. I remember a specific instance, particularly when I was 10 years old with my dad… I never touched the field one time for an entire weekend… It was a wake-up call.”
Turning Point: Instead of quitting, Zach doubled down, practicing with his dad every night. He made the starting lineup the next year. [03:30] Zach: “We went out and bought a bonet, set it up in the garage… we hit every night… the next year I came back [and] eventually played myself into a starting position…”
Supportive but Non-Pushy Parents: Zach’s father, rather than forcing baseball, always left the decision to Zach, fueling intrinsic motivation. [08:19] Zach: “He always gave me the opportunity… after that first time, it was always me who went to go get [the bat] after that… My dad was never like that [a ‘pushy parent’].”

[10:51] Zach: “I don’t think you can force a baseball career. I don’t think you can force almost anything in life. The separator… is mentality 100%, it’s the sixth tool that you can’t teach.”

3. Mental Health, Identity, and Mindset Shifts

The Cost of Making Baseball Your Identity: Zach describes how athletes who tie their identity to baseball struggle most with adversity. [22:35] Zach: “You gotta decide who you are as a person. Am I somebody who plays baseball, or am I a baseball player? Baseball does not make a good god… If you worship the game, it will turn its back on you.”
Learning to Handle Failure and Not Running from Adversity: In both college and the minors, Zach considered leaving Ball State after lack of playing time, but stayed. This decision became foundational. [17:39] Zach: “It would be easier for me to just turn tail, run, run away from adversity… but if I couldn’t make it here, I definitely couldn’t make it in pro ball.”
Mindset Work and Clarity: Joe’s coaching helped Zach become self-aware and intentional, focusing not on avoidance (of strikeouts) but on positive presence (“the hardest out in baseball”). [46:41] Joe: “I know what you don’t want, which is you don’t want to strike out. What do you want? … [Zach:] I want to be the hardest out in baseball.”

[47:01] Zach: “We were taking our agency back… I could stay the same person the whole time.”
Faith and Surrender: Zach’s journey involved releasing control and “letting go” for real transformation. [28:28] Zach: “For the first time in my life, I started to look at it as just something that I did. And it was an avenue to do the Lord’s work… If I don’t make it to the big leagues, I’m going to be okay.”

[34:13] Zach: “I feel like [God] was waiting for me to just give it up. He was waiting for me to just hold out the baseball career and say, do with it what you want, because before I level you up, you gotta be ready to handle what I’m about to give you.”

4. Practical Mental Tools and Unlearning Old Stories

Awareness and Language: Zach realized the negative effect of labeling experiences as “good” or “bad”; instead, reframing as “data” to stay neutral and adaptive. [47:01] Zach: “It’s just data, it’s just information, it’s just feedback. You don’t have to put emotions on it… If we can just look at it as what’s happening around us… we can make an adjustment without falling apart.”
Power of Choice and Agency: Both Joe and Zach stress the importance of agency in navigating baseball and life, encouraging others not to give away their power.

5. The Power of Community and Coaching

You Can’t Do It Alone: The episode repeatedly underscores that, to reach “mountaintops,” everyone needs help—be it family, faith, or outside mentorship. [38:50] Joe: “You really can’t do it alone… Most people would say, you’ve been in AA too long, so maybe that’s a sign of who you are… But we were like, no, let’s go build something brand new.”

[64:29] Matt: “Credit also goes to you for being open… How many players are in the same place that you were who don’t ever do it?”
[65:31] Zach: “More than the majority. Yeah, absolutely right...we’re so resourceful, we’re so smart… but eventually you’re going to be put into something in your life where you can’t overcome it by yourself.”
Unlearning Limiting Mindsets: Zach talks about realizing even “old” strategies that brought early success might have to be “shed” (like rocket boosters) to reach new heights. [67:52] Zach: “I think of a rocket ship when it’s going into space. Certain parts have to fall off so it can keep going up. But those certain parts… are what got you off the ground… But we’re not on the ground anymore…”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Intrinsic Drive:
[12:24] Zach: “A lot of kids get burned out...they’re out there because they think their parents want them to...for me, it was always about the game.”
Owning Your Uniqueness:
[13:48] Zach: “He sat there and said, ‘Where are all my professional athletes?’ And I was the only guy that raised my hand in the whole auditorium. And people laughed at me. I could hear them. And I was like, you know what? Screw it.”
On Surrendering Dreams:
[29:08] Joe: “You can’t really get the thing you want until you’re willing to truly give it up. And it’s such a paradoxical idea...”
Rock Bottom to Mountaintop:
[39:18] Zach: “Every time I open my mouth, I feel stupid because...Joe is always like, well, you’re labeling yourself, or you’re creating your own barriers...You don't realize that you’re even creating these barriers and labels and trials for yourself until you really dive in.”
On Consistency:
[76:53] Zach: “How can you be a consistent baseball player if you can’t be a consistent person?”
Advice for Parents and Players:
[77:33] Zach: “If you really love the game, then go for it...Don’t be intimidated by anybody and don’t let anyone tell you what it is or is impossible.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

[00:27] – Zach’s MLB debut and 2024 adversity
[02:29] – Childhood struggles & practicing with dad
[10:51] – Why you can’t “force” a baseball career
[17:39] – Overcoming struggle at Ball State; fear of regret
[22:35] – The mental identity crisis of being a “baseball player”
[28:28] – Faith, surrender, and breaking free from “big leagues or bust”
[30:32] – Mindset coaching: focusing on clarity, not negative avoidance
[46:41] – Becoming the “most competitive out” and agency in adversity
[64:29] – Being open to help; most people don’t do the inner work
[67:52] – Rocket analogy: letting go of old strategies
[76:53] – Consistency in life leads to consistency in baseball
[77:33] – Closing advice for parents and players

Tone and Takeaways

The episode is direct, candid, and loaded with hard-won wisdom but remains warm and affirming, with real vulnerability and mutual respect among all three speakers. It blends baseball grind stories and competitive insight with honest talk about depression, surrender, and faith. The repeated message: greatness on the field is impossible without true transformation off it.

Final Advice to Players & Parents:

Focus on becoming a complete person, not just a player
Seek help when you hit a wall; everyone needs a team
Don’t let external voices define your limits
Faith, honesty with oneself, and the willingness to “let go” turn setbacks into stepping stones

Memorable Final Word – Zach Cole [77:33]:
“If you really love the game, then go for it… Don’t be intimidated by anybody and don’t let anyone tell you what it is or isn’t possible.”

[End of summary]

(This summary excluded all non-content sections such as intros, outros, and ads, and used natural language reflecting the speakers’ tone.)

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Transcript

A (0:12)

Johan Martinez, Kalilian, you've been here. This is episode five.

B (0:16)

I think we've done 35th episode.

A (0:19)

Yeah. Yes, I think we've done five. It's a different flavor of it, though. And we were joined today by a client, a friend, Zach Cole of the Houston Astros.

C (0:27)

Thank you guys for having me.

B (0:29)

What's going on?

A (0:29)

Hold the applause. Hold the applause. Where should we start? You know, let's. Why don't we start here? So you, you made your major league debut this September. And what's so wild about that experience is so. I was blessed to be there. Joe. You tried, you tried could make it, but you arguably had the best debut of anybody that I can remember. I mean, I know that you hit a home run in your very first pitch, I guess, first pitch you saw, hit a homer, but also you robbed a home run in the very first inning, which I feel like that kind of like set the tone for the debut. But so I want to set that. I want to like, just let everybody know that that experience happened. But what's interesting is, as I think about what was going on for you the year before in September, I remember specifically, obviously, you know, you, you had some ups and downs, right? You ended up getting injured a little bit. You end up getting AA. And in September, I think in the last 50 some odd played appearances at bats, you struck out a pretty decent amount of times, right? I think your last two games were for four with four punch outs, right?

C (1:40)

I definitely. I specifically remember getting the gold sombreros two games in a row to end the season. And it might have been, I don't know. I remember that the week before as well.

A (1:51)

So, so I, I, the reason why I bring that up is because in one, in one year, you went from not the lowest lows, but like a pretty, a pretty rough way to end the season to arguably the highest of highs, making your debut, finishing obviously with the Houston Astros in the big leagues, being a meaningful part of that team in September. I want to go back because we're going to, we're going to come back to this, but I want to go back to when you first started playing baseball. At what age were you when you felt like, you know, I'm pretty good at this? Like, this is, this is something that I'm not sure that I know that I'm going to be a major league baseball player, but I'm good enough to where I think maybe I can get a chance at doing that.

C (2:29)

That's actually, that's actually a great question, because I like to talk about this a lot because I'm kind of an unusual guy in terms of, you know, guys in my position. So when you think about guys in the big leagues, right, you know, you know, the best of the best, you know, the best 750 players in the world, you know, you would assume that a lot of them were pretty dominating growing up as kids, but for me, that, that wasn't really the case. From a young age, I struggled for a long time. And I remember a specific instance, particularly when I was 10 years old with my dad. You know, I was playing with a lot of kids who were better than me. And I remember specifically a whole tournament where I never touched the field one time for an entire weekend or an entire tournament that we played. And it was, it was a wake up call for me especially. I was, I was. I remember crying and I remember my dad asking me if I wanted to quit. And I didn't want to quit, I just wanted to play, but I just didn't have what it took. So at that point, that was a real turning point for me in my, in my career in terms of a player, because it taught me that, like, hey, like, you know, it's not just going to be handed to you. You're going to have to go out there and you're going to have to get it and you're going to have to take it and you're going to have to take that step. And it's not just going to, you know, I wasn't. And I was blessed with that, the athleticism, obviously, but I never really could put it together skill wise on the field. I was very raw and untrained and, you know, we went out and bought a bonet, set it up in the garage and we hit every night when dad would get home from work, we'd eat dinner and, and I'd go outside and I'd hit off the tee in the garage and dad would load for me. And the next year I came back to the same team and I eventually played myself into a starting position on that team. And that was the first time in my life when I was like, okay, I can do this, but it's not going to be easy. And I'm going to have to do this, you know, over and over and over again because I'm going to continue to run into challenges and be told that I'm not good enough and I'm going to have to work through it. But I would say the one age where I finally realized, like, I have a chance at this was probably 14 or 15. So kind of later in my career, I always wanted to play pro ball, but I never really thought I had a serious chance until I got to. Until I was a freshman in high school. And I eventually started on varsity as a freshman after a couple of weeks into the season and for the rest of the season. And at that point I was like, okay, you know, I have some talent. I'm playing against guys who are two or three years older than me right now, and I'm competing. So I know that I have the God given ability, but I just got to put myself into a position to progress from here. And that's when it really started to take off for me as a baseball player is when I got to high school and I kind of stopped playing, you know, the other sports. You know, they always talk about, you know, guys being, you know, versatile playing multiple sports in high school, but that wasn't really the case for me. I always knew what I wanted to be. I always knew what I loved. And I never had a question or a doubt in my mind that I wanted to be a big, big league baseball player. So from that point on, I put all my eggs into that basket and I just pursued it from there. And it's been a long journey. But yeah, I'm definitely a late bloomer in terms of know, I would say my progression or like my realization to where I was like, okay, I can actually do this. It's not just a dream. Like, I got a shot at making this a reality.

C (24:31)

So obviously I had some adversity that I dealt with in college and I overcame it. I ended up having a successful junior year campaign at Ball State. You know, I, I was fortunate enough. I had a great year. I hit like 360 or something. I led the nation in triples and I'll do one. It was a great year. One year, all I needed, and I got drafted and I was like, you know what if I can survive that? Like, I can survive whatever pro ball has for me. But the hard thing about pro ball that was difficult for me was that I started second guessing myself and questioning myself was when you have those good stretches and you don't have Anything to show for it. When you go, when you play really well and nothing comes of it, you. You lose that peace within yourself. And like I said, you start to identify. You know, you're like, if I, if I worship the game and I'm playing good, then good things should be happening, right? So if I'm playing good right now and nothing good is coming from it, or whatever your good is, what the world is telling you is good, then why should I be happy? And then now I'm in a. Now I'm trapped in that cycle of it doesn't matter what I do, it's not going to work out. Because when I play bad, obviously nothing's going to happen. When I play good, I'm not getting the recognition or the notoriety that I think I deserve. And now I start to second guess myself, not only as a player, but as a person. Because if you worship the game and your self esteem is tied up in how well you're hitting right now, most nights you go home, you're probably going to be pretty upset with yourself. And that's tough. And that was. And there's a lot of tears, a lot of car rides home, especially in AA for those two seasons that I was there. It was tough, man. There was a lot of lonely car rides. When mom and dad called me on the way home and I just, I just couldn't talk to him. Yeah, I didn't want to talk to anybody. I wanted to go home and I wanted to just sit by myself and just wallow in it and just be upset. And I realized at one point in, in this year, when I hit Amarillo in August, that was that good. I hit over 506 games in Amarillo and it was a great week. It was a great week for me. No promotion. And at that point I was having, I was doing the best I had ever done in AA up to that point in my career. I was, I feel like I was the. At that point in my career, I was the best I've ever been hitting wise, you know, as a baseball player and no promotion, no nothing. And then I was like, man, but the difference this year between this year and last year was I really, really dove in and I really, really focused on being somebody who plays baseball and not being a baseball player, you know, because when you identify yourself with the game, like you said, it's up and down always and it'll turn its back on you quick. But if you're a Christian and you're a man or you're a husband or husband And a father, then the stuff you do seems to have less, you know, all encompassing, you know, validity in your life. You know, you. You have a bad day at work, you have a loving family waiting for you at home, or, oh, you, you know, I don't have a great day at the plate. Well, I have a God who still loves me and all these wonderful things that are still going right in my life. And at that point after that week in Amarillo, I was like, you know what, God? If it's not meant to be, you know, I could be sitting behind the desk right now. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but for me, it's not what I wanted to do. But I'm still getting to play the game. I'm still healthy. I still got my right mind. I got a family who loves me, a guy who cares about me. I'm okay. If I finished the year in double A this year, it was a good year no matter what. And I remember telling my parents all the time because they were always asking me, like, how are you feeling? How are you doing? They're always worried about me. You know, they're good parents. They're always going to do that. And I was like, you know what? It's okay. And it was really hard for my parents to hear me say, you know, if I don't make it to the big leagues, I'm going to be okay. Because I was never like that growing up.

C (30:32)

Absolutely. And the thing is, for me, that was always so interesting was I had no idea how to do any of the stuff that Joe wanted me to do. I had never worked on my mindset, you know, my self esteem, the way I thought about myself, you know, actually, like, writing stuff down that I had that I wanted to work towards, but not only baseball goals, but just like, goals for myself. And that was very difficult for me to kind of work my way into, but it was great to be able to focus on something finally that wasn't on the field. And I feel like it was really good work for me that took my mind off of, you know, the, you know, the inaccuracies of the game, because sometimes, you know, the game will tell you that you're not playing well and you actually are, and sometimes vice versa. And for me to be able to work on stuff and pursue, you know, trying to make myself, you know, a more complete person mentally, not just physically, really kind of alleviated some stress off the field, and it allowed. This year, we actually implemented a lot of stuff. You know, we got to. I started trying to decide what kind of person I was going to be every day on the field. And I feel like that that helped me handle the failure so much because we took the stress off of me. And we just changed the narrative. So instead of, you know, not trying to strike out so much, we were just trying to be the best, the most competitive out that I could be. And we. We shifted the focus off of the negative onto the positive, and we changed the ups and downs of the game into just information and just data and just, you know, okay, I'm going to try this. And this is what happened. Okay, so now I'm going to go from here. But I could stay the same person the whole time. And it shifted my perspective on how I looked at my game and how I played. And so when I had that good week in Amarillo, it wasn't like, oh, I didn't get promoted, so I failed. It was like, okay, like, it's not my time. I did everything I could. I'm being the person that I want to be. Things are good. And then the next week, I was like, if it's. I was like, lord, if it's not meant to be, then it's not meant to be.

C (39:18)

For those of you who don't know, Joe is the man. I want to put that on record. We talk about that all the time. And that story is great. But it all comes down to every time I tell Joe this all the time, every time I talk to Joe, every time I open my mouth, I feel stupid because I always say. I always say something. And then Joe is always like. He always picks it apart. He's like, well, King of Russia. Yeah, he is the King of Prussia, by the way. But he always talks about. He's always like, well, you're labeling yourself or you're. You're create. Like you're creating your own barriers. He's like, you're the way. Look at the language that you're using. And you don't ever think of it because you're so ingrained in your brain to think the way that the world wants you to think about yourself or these people want you to think about yourself. And you don't realize that you're even creating these barriers and these labels and these trials for yourself until you really dive into, you know, you're wise and the reason you do certain things and the reason you're going through certain, you know, certain adversity and stuff, because a lot of it, a lot of the times was like, self imposed on myself. You know, we talk about, you know, we talked about strikeouts a lot because the org wanted me to cut back on them. And it was all I could think about, bro. I was up there, like, trying not to strike out. And we had to. We had to flip the script and we had to go up there and try to be the most competitive guy possible. And I was going to strike out less because of that. And so for me, you know, putting that thing, putting. I want to debut this year in 25, you know, it seemed outrageous, it seemed unlikely, not, not possible, not plausible. And we just, we just. I just stayed true to myself. And every day I showed up like a big leaguer and I just tried to treat myself like one. And I gave myself grace through the failures and learning how to control. Like, it's not, I don't want to say control your own destiny, but in terms, like you really can, in terms of. In terms of what you believe in. Now, obviously, like certain things or the Lord has planned for you are certain things. Like, there's no way around those. But I feel like, you know, if he gives you a desire in your heart, I mean, it's for a reason. And you gotta. You gotta believe in yourself the way that these people do. And Joe. Joe could see that in me even when I couldn't see it in myself. And he kind of unlocked that ability for me to where every day I could show up and be the person that I wanted to be and be the. Instead of, you know, trying to put on a mask every day and not actually, you know, identify or just pretend, you know, I. For the first time in my. In like, my career, I could show up and be the person I wanted to be, you know, and it didn't matter what happened, because I was this person today and I'm going to do this and that's all it's going to be. And it's nothing more than that. It's nothing less. And that gave me peace in my situation. And it also gives you that confidence that, like, this is Possible. He said, watch me. Go watch me, you know, and that's the thing is, like so many guys, you. You tell yourself that you believe in yourself, but do you really, like, do you really believe in yourself? And for me, I thought I did, you know, but at the end of the day, we took a look at the words I was using and what I was saying about myself and the barriers I was creating for myself, and I was getting in myself, getting in the way of myself a lot of the times, and it's. It's so tough. He told me when we first started. A lot of the first year is going to be unlearning things, and that is difficult because you don't realize how ingrained that stuff is in your brain.

C (47:01)

That's what. And we talked about that, too, is like you were taking our agency back. We get to the side. A lot of the times I would use the words good and bad to describe, and he was like, you're using. He's like, you're. He's like, you're labeling again. He's like. He's like, what is good and what is bad? He's like, are you deciding what that is? He's like, it's just data. It's just information. It's just feedback. You don't have to put emotions on it. We don't have to put a connotation on what's happening, because then we start to ride that roller coaster. And if we can just look at it as what's happening around us and just taking a look at our surroundings, we can make an adjustment without falling apart or lo. Or, like I said, not being who you are, because I wasn't who I was, right? I was just somebody who was defensive, you know, I was just up there, you know, not really myself, just, you know, just trying to be reactive instead of going out there and just being like, you know what? Like, I can do this. Like, I'm a good player, you know, and I deserve to be out here. I'm gonna go out here and do my best. And if it happens the way this way, it happens. If it doesn't, I'm still a winner because I get to decide what success is for me. And if success is, I go out here and I glorify the Lord, and I. And I play as hard as I can, I win. There's no. I can't. And the one thing I will say. I remember they were asking me when I got. Right before my first game in the big leagues, that one. There was some lady who gave me my interview. I think her name was Lauren. But she does some of the interviews for the Things. And I'm sorry if she's watching this. It was a busy day, but I follow her on Instagram. She's a great lady, and she was. She talked to me about my faith before the game. She was a sigh of relief for me and a stressful, nervous day. But she's. She's like, how are you feeling? And. And the words that came to my. I can't mess it up. Yeah, I can't mess it up. There's no way I can mess this up, because this is such a win for me today. It does not matter what happens on the field, because I did it. I. I set My mind to this, and I believed in myself, and here I am. And I said, I'm just gonna go do it. I'm just gonna go do. And that's. And it freed me up so much. And. And she. She even mentioned. I remember listening to her talk during the game. She's like, you should have heard what he had. The way he talked about himself and just being around him, like, his confidence and stuff. The way he was talking, like. And the thing is, too, is it was like, I remember what Joe was talking to me about, because at that point, I felt like I was in a great spot mentally, and I really couldn't mess it up because I was out there doing my thing, and I was a winner before I even got on the field. And that just. I mean, talk about taking the weight off your shoulders to go out there and to just play.

C (72:42)

Regardless of what's happening. And the thing is, I just wasn't pleased with myself because I was. I was identifying myself and things that weren't important, and I had to really reel myself back in and just say, I'm going to be okay. Either way, it's going to be okay. And I remember you talking to me about this a lot, too, is like, guys put so much pressure on themselves, and you see them drive themselves out of the game, and not everyone can handle that. And the thing is, like you said, you almost have to lose yourself and lose the goal and the dream so that you can actually obtain it and it'll free you up to play. And that's such a hard concept to grasp, because as young athletes, we're always taught if you work hard, you put in the work that it's going to work out. You can hard work yourself through everything. And that is true to a certain extent. But once you reach a certain point, you have to be able to evolve. Like we said, you have to be able to. Those choices that you make that get you to a certain point might be the ones that are now holding you back. And I had to change. I had to realize that I had everything I needed to be physically successful in the game. But I wasn't putting myself in a position to use those tools because I was crippling myself mentally because I couldn't change my thought process. I was. I was disabling myself. I was paralyzing myself. I would go into the box with this plan of exactly what I wanted to do, and thinking about this move and being on time, and I got to put four balls in play today, and it's the pitch I'm looking for, and I don't even move. I paralyzed myself. And for the life of me, I couldn't understand why that would happen. That didn't make sense to me. And. And now I realize it was a sign. I was like, you're not focusing on the right things. You've got to put yourself into a situation where you can thrive. You got to put your. You got to get out of that jail cell. You got to put yourself into an area surrounded by people who push you to be better in the right ways so you can go out and thrive and be you. And it's so difficult to do that. It seems so scary because, like you said, why would I stop thinking this way? It got me here, didn't it? It's supposed to keep working. It's worked so far. And then you start. You said you start to become real reactive instead of proactive, and you're looking around and you're defensive and you're not yourself anymore. You don't even realize it. 1.

C (76:11)

So no, what I would tell them is, I would say, so obviously this is different. If you're not a believer in Christ, a lot of the things we say might not make a lot of sense to you because we talk about this Christ guy a lot and how he's the reason for a lot of things. And if you don't have a relationship with him, that would be what I would tell you to do. Because it doesn't matter what you do in your life, if you don't have a relationship with Christ, everything's going to be confusing. But if you do and you have this relationship and if your kid was. Is pursuing baseball or any other sport, I would tell them to. I would tell them to pray about it. And I would say, look at yourself in the mirror and look at the things that you're telling yourself. And if you really, really love this game, to just. To just like in. In. Joe can help me with this one. But you can really just walk out of that jail cell and just know that no matter what, whether you succeed or fail, the success does not lie in reaching the end goal. It lies in the journey. And I know that's easy for me to say for a guy who just made it to a mountaintop or one of the. Hopefully just one of them, but it truly is because I remember the person that I was in high school and the person that I was in college and then the person that I was on September 12th, and they're not the same person. And I feel like if you go through your playing career and you don't evolve as a person as well as a player, then you. Then you're not doing it right. And for me, I evolved as a player, but I wasn't evolving as a person and I needed to step up again. We talk about, I wanted to be a consistent hitter. I wanted to be a competitive hitter. Well, Joe looked at me in the mirror and he said, how can he. How can you be a consistent baseball player if you can't be a consistent person? And I said, that's crazy. That is crazy to think about how showing up to a meeting on time or going to bed on time or stuff like that and just showing up for yourself can lead to consistency on the field. But I would say look at. If you're not Seeing the results that you want, look at yourself in the mirror and it's maybe not necessarily a game adjustment. Maybe you're, maybe you're not telling yourself the right things. And I would say you can be whatever person you want to be. You can elect to be that person every single day, whether you're actually there or not. I chose, I chose to love myself, give myself grace, and act like a big leaguer every day, even though I wasn't one. Until one day I woke up and I was. And at that point I had evolved so much as a person to where I was able to go out, I was able to play and be free. And it's a liberating feeling. And you don't. And the thing, the crazy thing is I've been a guy who laughed at mental skills training before and all those types of things. I've been on both sides. And until you actually start to dive in and unlock those things that you may not even realize exist, it does seem far fetched. It does seem a little crazy, a little weird. But then you start to realize, like, man, maybe there's some validity to this. And once you really dive in and take a look at yourself, you realize a lot of the stuff you do might be the thing that's holding you back. Maybe it's not the fact that you don't throw 90 or that you don't run a certain. A certain 60. Maybe, maybe you're just not allowing yourself to do those things and it's, it's all perspective. That's what I would say. And if you really love the game, then go for it. Yeah, that's what I would say. If you really love what? If you really love the game and that's what you want to do, talk to God about it and go for it. Don't be intimidated by anybody and don't let anyone tell you what it is or is impossible. Because I had a lot of people tell me that it was unlikely and it was impossible. But I mean, we're powerful people, guys, and, and we, and the sky's the limit for us if we can surround ourselves with good people and, you know, put our faith in a savior who actually is in control of everything. So I think that's what I would say.