← Most Valuable Agent with Matt Hannaford
Most Valuable Agent with Matt Hannaford
MLB Agent Q&A: Off-Season Work Ethic, Playing Time & Contract Negotiation Secrets
00:23:08
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- [00:13]
A
Welcome back to another solo episode of the Most Valuable Agent podcast. Today we have something new for you guys. So we have a Q and A episode where my producer, Mike has received a number of different questions from families throughout the country, and he's going to read them and we're just kind of. We're going to go through them and I'm going to answer them and hopefully help a ton of people out. So, Mike, what's up, buddy?
- [00:39]
B
Hey, Matt, thanks for having me on. I'm really excited about this new format. Things going to be great.
- [00:43]
A
Yeah, me too. All right.
- [00:45]
B
Yeah, let's. Let's do it. All right, so first question we have is Ken from Kansas. Ken writes, hey, Matt, how much should a parent read into their kids effort level between seasons? Is off season work ethic really the best predicator or predictor, Excuse me, of how far they'll go?
- [01:07]
A
Phenomenal question. Very, very well thought out. Yeah, I mean, I think every parent could probably benefit from this thinking. We have to get way more into like this commonsensical way to think about things. I think the more information that we all have available to us out there in the world and like, look, this podcast, a byproduct of, of wanting to add information out there, but ultimately kind of simplify things. I think as a parent, what you have to do is just think again. More common, sensically. At the end of the day, what age is my son? Right. What are his goals and his dreams and his aspirations and, and be honest about that. If your son has a dream of being a major league baseball player. Okay, that's, that's good to know. How old is he? Is he 10? Okay, well, then we have to, like, put it in perspective a little bit. We have to allow things to develop and take shape a little bit before we can really start dedicating kind of like our life to this thing. Now, if Your son is 17 and he's ranked throughout all of the national publications and you know how this looks. It's, you know, you have scouts coming to your game. Your son is committed to a SEC baseball program. You know, everybody in the area is telling you that he's maybe the best player that's ever played in the area. Obviously you have something different on your hands. And so the reason I share this is because we, we first have to start with kind of the foundation. What are we dealing with? If I were to answer your question, Mike, and that qu. Or Ken, I should say, and that question is the same for a player who's 10, who has ambitions of playing pro ball or a player who's 17, who's close to being a first round pick. That's unfair. Okay, so what I first want to kind of establish is who is your son and what are the realities of this world? What are the realities of his situation? If, if he is capable, okay, and he's close to maybe realizing this dream of, of being a professional player or playing at the highest level in college, then obviously, as you talk about his work ethic, how he works throughout the year matters, Obviously part of that is the off season. And I think your question was specifically about the off season. You know, let's, let's talk about what a normal like off season looks like for a player, right? It obviously depends on if he's a pitcher or a position player. But most times when you get to the end of a summer, that player is going to shut down for a period of time, right? Maybe a month, maybe two months. And he should let his body rest. If he's a pitcher, he certainly should kind of put the ball down and not, not throw a ton. If he wants to continue playing catch a little bit, that's fine, but he really needs to let his arm rest and then kind of get geared up for the spring. So there's a period of time there where he's letting his body rest, where it's probably as apparent, maybe perceived as though he's being lazy. Let me be the first to tell you that these guys in the big leagues, when they get done with the major league season, these guys will not leave the couch for a month and a half. So you just want to be kind of aware of all of it. It's like, how much is my son been doing for baseball over the last. Call it six, seven, eight, nine months. And if he's devoted a ton of time, well, then you do need to give him the ability to kind of refresh and kind of like refocus for the year ahead. If we don't allow them to do that, then come the new year, they're going to get burned out. And you know, again, if Your son is 10, 11, 12, even though he may have all the energy in the world, I just think you're doing him a disservice if you don't let him be a kid and go out there and enjoy himself. It's not just all about training. It needs to be about being a kid too. And so I guess the whole point of me saying all this is really let them be kids. Let's think more common sense about this, and, and, you know, just give yourself some credit. I feel like parents oftentimes feel like, you know, there's so much they don't know. Your intuition more than anything is probably right on. So just kind of listen to it. And I'm happy to add color to that. Ken, if you want to maybe DM me and send me some additional information about your son, I'd be happy to address it specifically.
- [05:21]
B
Yeah, I think that was a, that's a really awesome question from, from Ken, Matt. And I'm sure he really appreciated your answer with everything that you've experienced and been through as an, as an agent. So. All right, next question we got is Mark from Cincinnati. He writes, hey, Matt. So my son's been putting in a ton of work all week at practice, and then when game day comes, he ends up writing the bench. How am I supposed to handle this without losing my mind at the coach?
- [05:50]
A
I, I, I feel like, Mark, a lot of parents can, can empathize with the frustration. Something to be mindful of, I guess, first, because it's very easy to hear your question and to make assumptions. Right. We can assume that the coach is in the wrong based on what you're saying. We can assume that, yeah. I mean, your son deserves the play. I think we all need to kind of get more context, right. To all of these questions. Context matters. So how old is your son? Right. Is he a freshman playing for varsity? That matters. Is he a senior playing for varsity? Obviously that's a different conversation. Then why is he not playing? I think we all need to be a little bit more self aware too. And you know, I think we all want our kids to be the best on the team. And I'm assuming from what's gone on, one of two things is true. Either your son isn't the best on the team, and it doesn't mean he shouldn't be playing, but he's probably not the best on the team. Or maybe there's an issue with the coach, with your son or you. Right. So to address your comment about what should you do about it, I, I, again, it depends on the age of your son. If your son is in high school, I don't believe that it's okay for mom or dad to be the person that's communicating with the son. I do believe, and it's a good message to send to your son, that if he has an issue with his playing time, that he should be the one that address it with the coach. And you can certainly help provide him with insight and maybe some guidance in how to handle that conversation. The reason I say this is because if your son truly does have ambitions, then maybe turn this into something in the future, Go to college and play, maybe get a scholarship or even, you know, if he's really young and he wants to develop into being a pro one day, these are the things that's going to happen, right? You're going to have to have these conversations with people much older than you, and you're going to have to, you know, stand on your own two feet and address an adult. And so I think it's a good message to send to put him in that position now and to really see how much he cares about it. Because if, and trust me, me as an agent is saying this for any parent who maybe feels like, oh, I want to be the one that says something, some of my advice to some of my professionals is you need to be one of the people that's involved in this conversation. There's a. There's a time and a place for me to call the general manager or the farm director on behalf of my client, but there's also a time and a place to make sure that the player is addressing it directly with the coach. Because oftentimes, whatever's being said, that message is going to be perceived in a certain way. So in this example, if your son doesn't say anything and he acts like everything is fine, and then you dad gets really frustrated and disappointed with the coach, what good is that? Doing that's not solving any problem. It. Maybe it's making you feel good in the moment, but it's not going to address any real underlying issue. So in that instance, what I would recommend is, first, how old is your son? Right. If. If he's in high school, I. I think you need to have a conversation with him, ask him how frustrated he is, and then give him some advice so that he can have a. A very professional conversation with the coach. And more importantly, ask him the question, like, why am I not playing? Get specific. I know that there are coaches out there that can hold grudges. I know that it's every player that doesn't play. It's not always fair, right? And sometimes the coach has favorites. Maybe his own son is on the team and he plays the same position. That certainly happens. So I think you need to ask specific questions. Why am I not playing? What do you need to see from me in order for me to start playing? Right. Get those answers, and I feel like they will definitely help you. Now, if your son is much younger and let's just say he's 9 or he's 10 years old, and maybe it's a travel ball program and he's not playing. I do think it's okay for you to have a conversation with the coach, but I would tell you I don't think it's appropriate to have that conversation when you're emotional. I think you need to pick and choose your time where you can have that conversation. I definitely, I think you need to be mindful of what is the emotional maturity of the coach as well. Right? If you guys just lost the game and your son didn't play and you got really heated after the game, that's the moment you choose to go talk to him. It's probably not the best moment, but maybe it's before the next game or maybe it's a phone call in between games, right. A practice day or something different. And I think the, the key here is you just want to maintain a professionalism because if you get in an argument with the coach and whatever is said can be misconstrued as you were being disrespectful or you were calling the coach, you know, certain names, you know how this works, that, that gets around, and now you have a reputation that you're a hothead, maybe it, it even is a reflection on your son. So I just think we all need to be mindful of the impact that sometimes those conversations have. I definitely not trying to talk you out of having the conversation. I think a conversation is, can be constructive and good, but I just think you want to be smart about it and, and strategic more than anything. So again, and I said this to Ken earlier, but Mike, if you want to send me a, a DM and maybe give me more specifics, I'm happy to, to offer my advice or opinion more specifically that addresses, you know, the situation with more context.
- [11:30]
B
All right, the last question that we got from you is Jake from Scottsdale. He writes, matt, I want you to take us back to your very first deal as an agent. What do you remember about that moment? And looking back 25 years later, what would you tell that version of yourself?
- [11:48]
A
Oh, wow, what a great question, Jake.
- [11:51]
B
I guess people want to know more about all these amazing stories and deals that you've had over the 25 years of baseball that you've been in. I don't even think I know this.
- [12:01]
A
The question was about the very first deal. So obviously there's different types and styles of deals that are done. Right. We all, we all know this. Generally you have the Draft contract, which is the first contract. You obviously have an arbitration contract. You have free agency contracts. Here's what I will share with you. And it's not every, every contract kind of there's a different story to tell, right? Whether it was Joey Votto's, Albert Pujols, Manny Machado, Liam Hendricks, I guess, yeah. One that I would choose to, I guess, talk a little bit about was Liam Hendricks contract. And the reason, I guess this is the one that comes to mind is there were circumstances when that deal was being negotiated that were unique and different than any other I would say contract really, I've ever done. And it was twofold. So number one, it was during COVID So if you remember. So Liam ended up signing that contract in January of 2021. And we obviously had the shortened major league season before that. And that was a contract that when it was agreed to, it was agreed to on January 11th. And I know that because 111 his wife, like pointed that out to me. Kind of a funny story, but that contract, when we agreed to it, he was like the first big free agent to sign that offseason. And it was in January. So that tells you. Yeah, I mean, obviously it was, it was Covid. Things were really slow and they were late. And so when we agreed to that contract, yeah, I feel like the industry was kind of in a holding pattern and that was the thing that kind of like sparked the signings to start the, the agreement itself. What, what I guess I, I learned from it, I think was one of the questions that Jake had. I guess the biggest learning moment that I had through that experience is you have to be. If anybody knows what second order thinking is, it's basically a lot of us can get caught thinking like, what is the byproduct of a certain decision being made? Well, if I do this, then this is going to happen. Second order thinking is, well, if I do this and this happens and then I do that and that happens, what then is a result of that? Right. It's a little bit further down the road. And to be a good agent, you have to be skilled at second order thinking. And that was one of those contracts where we had to be prepared for a lot of different things leading up to that moment, one of which was Covid. The other was obviously we had a pitcher. Health of pitchers obviously matters. And there were various things that I did that I don't want to get into, I can't get into it, but that I had done in advance of the free agency period starting that really helped him From a positional standpoint, making sure that he is protected and, and really giving me a. A leg up in the negotiation, so to speak, with these various teams. That's probably a confusing answer that, you know, the listener, you're like, what? I don't even understand. I can't really get into it. But if you understand his contract, this contract was a deal in which there was an option on the contract. And so if anybody understands what an option is, on a free agent contract, there's various types. There's player options, which means at the end of a contract, the player has the right to pick up the option. There is a club option, which is what it sounds like, the club holds the option to pick up. And so if I explain both of those, something for you to understand is a player option only is picked up if the player is worth less than the value of the option. A club option is picked up if the player is only worth more than the value of the option. There's also mutual options which hardly ever get picked up, which is. Both sides have to agree to it. In Liam's case, what we had is we had a club option, okay, where the salary of that option and the buyout amount were the same exact number. So all to say, he essentially gets his money regardless if the option is picked up or not. The only thing that changes is when the buyout is paid. So in Liam's case, because they did not pick up the option, he still got his additional $15 million. It's just being paid out into the future. But what it also allowed us to do is it allowed us to go out there and sign another deal with the Boston Red Sox, which we agreed to last year, another multi year contract. So he was getting paid from multiple teams, and that obviously is a rarity. So that is the contract that comes to mind. What I ultimately learned was, yeah, I mean, you have to be really prepared for anything. And there's no one contract or one negotiation that is the same. And so more than anything, I think I was just reminded of that, going through that and whether it's Austin Riley's contract I did after or the various contracts I've done since then, they all kind of tell a different story. And so I'm not sure if I answered your question, but that's the one that comes to mind.
- [17:33]
B
I think you did a pretty good job answering that question. And I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, Liam Hendricks is the pitcher that came back from a cancer diagnosis too, right? I believe, yeah.
- [17:44]
A
So what's Interesting is, so he, we signed the deal in, in 2021, and it was a three year contract with a club option that would have made it a fourth year. And in December of 2023, which is, you know, the December right before his last year of the contract, he's diagnosed with stage four non Hodgkin's lymphoma. And so he then comes back in the middle of his last year of his deal to pitch and then obviously ends up blown out his elbow, has Tommy John surgery. And so that was the reason why they didn't pick up the option is they would rather, you know, spread it out over a longer period of time. But again, the fact that we had the option the way that we did, he still got his money regardless. And so it was the ultimate protection for him. So it's not only it was one of the most fun contracts I've negotiated, it was the most, one of the most fulfilling as well. And we're reminded of it every single year because he continues to get a buyout and will continue to get a buyout well into the future.
- [18:52]
B
Yeah, what an, what an amazing story as well. Just him battling back and still playing despite all the adversities come through.
- [18:59]
A
So I'll say this too. And, and this is, you know, and maybe this is just. I'm reminding myself of how blessed I am and fortunate I am to be an agent in this business. There are so many stories that come to mind and so many players that, like, I remember who, maybe for them, you know, I wasn't negotiating a contract for $54 million or $212 million or $300 million, but it was a, you know, maybe a draft contract for 450,000 or a draft contract for 150,000 or a draft contract for, you know, 5 million. Every negotiation and every story, there's an individual behind it, right? And there's a family behind it and there is a concerned parent behind it. And I'm reminded of those conversations in those moments of, you know, families and players putting their trust into me. And I am, I am being tasked with guiding them through this. Like, I don't take that lightly. And I only bring that up because I'm, more than anything, I feel like it's just a way for me to kind of acknowledge all of these various players over the years that have entrusted me with their career. I mean, it's a true blessing. It's, it's, it's something that I can't, I can never repay a player from giving me an opportunity to work on their behalf. I think sometimes agents make the mistake of thinking that they are the center of attention, that they're the one that makes, you know, the world go round in this business. And I think that's a little silly. I think at the end of the day, every agent needs to be reminded that we're only in this business because these players give us an opportunity to be in the business. And, you know, every waking minute, we have to continue to work and figure out how we can add more value to their career, how we can continue to serve them in the most optimal way. And I do know that there's a lot of agents and a lot of companies out there that think the same way. And I, I think, you know, that's certainly a good thing, because as we kind of embark upon this next collective bargaining negotiation with Major League Baseball and the Players association, you know, I, I got into this business in 2000, 2001, and I remember hearing all the stories from the 1994 strike. Right. And how players had to be unified and how they had to have these hard conversations with their agents and how, you know, I ultimately believe that sometimes when you're met with this, what feels like a really overwhelming endeavor, which this next CBA negotiation undoubtedly will be, that as we get through it collectively as a group, there's no question that we are going to be stronger because of it. And I believe that, you know, players, they will remain unified, and through that, we will have a game that is even better than it currently is.
- [21:59]
B
So, yeah, what a great episode today. And I'm sure, I'm sure you enjoyed it since it was our first time actually doing this type.
- [22:06]
A
Yeah, this was fun. Yeah, no, I, I definitely, for, for all you guys listening, like, I, I, I appreciate you guys tuning in. Obviously, you know, the reason we have this podcast is to make an impact and a difference on all of you guys watching. So if you guys enjoyed the podcast, please, like, subscribe. Send this to another family that this could help. I mean, at the end of the day, what we are interested in is, you know, smarter players, stronger families, and if, if this episode did that, then it was a win. So, Mike, I appreciate your time today, buddy, and I'm looking forward to the next one.
- [22:38]
B
Yeah, we'll have more questions coming the way. If you guys want to submit questions to us, you can DM Matt on Instagram and let us know. And we're more than happy to feature you on the next Q and A for the podcast. So until then, we'll see you next time.
- [22:53]
A
See you.