← Most Valuable Agent with Matt Hannaford
Most Valuable Agent with Matt Hannaford
One Last Shot At MLB: Anthony Banda’s Journey to The World Series
01:30:37
What does it really take to make it in the big leagues and stay there? In this emotional and eye-opening episode, LA Dodgers pitcher and World Series Champion Anthony Banda shares his raw, unfiltered journey through baseball’s toughest trials....
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- [00:13]
A
All right, so we are joined today by a client, a friend. Yeah, people recognize you. I know they do because they saw you obviously participate the World Series last year, but this is Anthony Bonda with the LA Dodgers. Appreciate you coming on the. The reason why I wanted to have this conversation is I think most people, especially for, you know, my audience, they're parents of anywhere from called 11 to 17. Right. And I think most of the people kind of have a preconceived notion of what the minor leagues is like, what the big leagues is like, what the pathway looks like. There's this what I would call kind of false assumption that the majority of guys in the big leagues are guys that, you know, they spent maybe a couple years in the minor leagues, and when they get to the big leagues, they stay. And that's obviously the goal, but I don't think everybody really understands how much sacrifice goes into actually being able to stay.
- [01:04]
B
Yeah. First off, thank you for having me. Secondly, like, yeah, like, there is a big misconception of, you know, you hear the stories of guys getting drafted and going straight to the big leagues. Right. And then there's guys that, you know, spend maybe a year or two in the big leagues nowadays. Like, I feel like everybody's being pushed and. And, you know, in. In deserving, like, you know. Sure. You know, and they don't want to waste those skill sets in the minor leagues to, like, really, you know, how would you say, like, progress them or develop them. Yeah, but, yeah, there's. I think there's a huge misconception of it, and I think a lot of people need to, like, what you're doing with this podcast, I think it spreads awareness of, like, what it's really, like, really entails. And I think that's. That's very important for people in the audience to know that.
- [01:53]
A
Yeah, I think. And the thing for me, too, that I want everybody to kind of gather, especially from an episode like this, because I've had. I've had big leaguers on before, but it's. It's, you know, I've had travel ball coaches, I've had scouts, I've had front office officials, I've had, you know, team doctors. I'm really trying to give them a bunch of different perspectives. The interesting story that I think you can articulate and kind of talk about is, so you were somebody who. You were never that premier guy as. As a young player.
- [02:23]
B
Right.
- [02:23]
A
You had to. I mean, we talk about your minor league career as a grind. Like, you had to grind even before you got the opportunity to play professional baseball.
- [02:30]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [02:30]
A
I mean, you obviously got drafted late in 2011.
- [02:34]
B
11. Yeah.
- [02:36]
A
Went to a junior college. Sand Jack. When. And Sanjack is still a really, you know, premier program. Obviously, at that time, it was, like, the place to go.
- [02:44]
B
Yeah, it was.
- [02:45]
A
You were fortunate, obviously, being from Texas, like, wasn't tremendously far away, so it worked out. But you ended up getting drafted the following year by the Milwaukee brewers in the 10th round. And so your career starts. And what I think is so special about it is you. And I don't want to say quickly, like, it didn't happen overnight, but all of a sudden you started getting some recognition in the minor leagues, where you eventually got to a place where you were considered, like, a legit prospect. You get traded to the Diamondbacks.
- [03:14]
B
Right.
- [03:16]
A
Which I think everybody thinks, like, the team that drafts me is the team that I'm going to debut with in your case, not. Not that way.
- [03:21]
B
Yeah.
- [03:22]
A
When you go to the Diamondbacks, then you become, you know, the number one prospect in the organization, top 100 prospect, futures game guy. So now it doesn't even matter what happened out of the draft. Like, you have now turned yourself into a really, really important figure for the Diamondbacks as far as what their future is going to look like. And so you debut. We were there. I remember, you know, facing the Nationals, because I remember Bryce Harper hit a homer off of you.
- [03:48]
B
Yeah, the thing's still going, but now.
- [03:51]
A
So you're a reliever today, but then you were starting pitcher.
- [03:54]
B
Right.
- [03:56]
A
But there were some things that started to happen for your career. Like, it. Even though you got to the big leagues with Arizona as that top prospect, as that guy think that everybody was like, look, you're going to be in the rotation for the next 10 years, very quickly, that changes. You get traded to the Tampa race. Right. And then you ended up getting hurt.
- [04:13]
B
Right.
- [04:13]
A
It was Tommy John. So dealing with the Tommy John surgery that I want to talk to you about right now, it's like when you first got injured because it's Tommy John, I think everybody knows it's not a death sentence. Like, yeah, guys get this all the time. They come back. And even when you got it, it was many years ago, but it still was a surgery that you could come back from. So when that happened to you, what was the most overwhelming feeling that you had? Was it, I can't believe I can't play baseball for a while, or, you know, I know the. The rehab process is something that is so overwhelming. What was the thing that stood out as. As the most mentally challenging.
- [04:49]
B
Well, when I first initially got told that I was gonna have time with John surgery, it was. I was in. It was AAA Durham 2018, right. And it's the first time I ever got hurt, like, ever in my life. Like, I was pretty fortunate to not break a bone or anything, not have to go through surgery or anything else like that. So I didn't really know what to expect. You know, it was the unknown of what, you know, what the reality was in the sense, like, in my head I was like, I wasn't nervous or scared or anything. It was just like, okay, so this time next year, I will. I will be pitching again, right? And I was like, okay, so I'm gonna tackle this rehab. And like, this is without knowing anything. Like, I haven't gone through anything like this. So, like, I didn't know what to expect. I didn't know the, the ups and downs of the rehab process, the ups and downs of the. Of, you know, the mental capacity of going through every single day, watching your guys play, achieve more and like, you kind of falling behind. And I think that's what really, really hit me the most was when I was watching the guys play and I was like, man, I want to contribute. I want to do this, I want to do that. It was just like the itch of just getting back on the mountain, getting the throw and the stuff like that. But then you realize, like, you can't do anything because you're in a brace. Like, you, you. You literally got a brand new elbow and you got to wait for that ligament to, like, actually, you know, mature. Yeah. And. And I think that was the hardest thing for me. You know, it was, it was that. And then afterwards, when I started actually throwing and, and getting off the mound and stuff, you know, this was the second thing that really, really, like, you know, kicked my butt was before I had any injuries. Right. I was always taught to just be athletic, throw, you know, just move down the mountain. Yeah. I wasn't a mechanic, like, driven guy. Like, I wasn't that. I was just like, get on the mound, flow with the mound. You know, throw the ball, get it over the play. It was a very simple mindset. And it, it bit me. It bit me because when I was trying to do that again, I wasn't moving the same. I wasn't moving as fast. Everything was off as far as timing and everything else like that. So, like, when they. When we would do a mechanical breakdown, I had no. I had zero knowledge of what, what it was. And I Know, it's surprising to some people. It's just like, well, you're a big leader. You should know this. Like, no, like I'm an athlete. Like, I wanted to just stay that way and I wanted to be clear minded and make the focus about what pitch I needed to do, like to make, to get this out. Right. And so when I was going through that rehab process, it was very, very hard for me and I was changing so much. And then in reality, I didn't really know that I was doing it in the sense of. Wasn't trusting the process. Right. And a lot of people talk about that. A lot of people, especially big leaguers like that have gone through some stuff or, and, and had a long career, successful career. They just, they talk about trust in the process of, of what you do every single day. I wasn't doing that. So it was. Every day it was something new. Right. And it was just like I wasn't getting any type, I wasn't gaining any type of ground on the progression of like, you know, the throwing off the mound and feeling. Right. It was always something different every single day. And I think that's what really drove me down a rabbit hole where I couldn't pull myself out. And by the time, you know, I was trying to, the team has basically moved on. Right.
- [08:28]
A
Yeah. The thing that I think people assume when they have surgery is, all right, I understand that with Tommy John especially, like, okay, it's going to be a year.
- [08:39]
B
Yeah.
- [08:39]
A
And the reason they think a year is because most doctors are like, all right, look, in 12 months, this is where you're gonna start. You know, you're actually throwing again. You're on the mound, you're so people just assume like, okay, so in a year I'll be back. It's like, no, no, no, no. You may be back on the mound in a year, but it's not gonna be until 14 months, until 16 months, where all of a sudden now you're, you feel like you can let it go freely again. And that's one of the biggest things I know that a lot of guys struggle with is I feel like, like I don't trust it yet. I feel like something's going to happen. So you're like, yeah, your mechanics change, you're trying to do things that you never focused on before. And yeah, I can only imagine going through that the first time despite the fact that people tell you, hey, this is how it's going to go. You're like, not for me.
- [09:22]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [09:23]
A
And then when it feels good, to start. And guys start telling you amen, you're a little ahead of schedule. All of a sudden you're like, oh, okay. And then you hit your first, like, hiccup. Right. Everybody has one. And all of a sudden it's like, they gotta shut me down for two weeks. I've got to back off a little bit. And now the wheels start spinning.
- [09:41]
B
Yeah.
- [09:42]
A
What does this now mean for me? And I think the thing that people don't really talk about, but it is an element that I can only imagine is like a paralyzing thought, which is, how old were you when you had Tommy John? Do you remember?
- [09:54]
B
I was 23. 20, right. So 23, 24.
- [09:58]
A
Young had already gotten to the big leagues. We're a top prospect. And as that year's going on now you're like, I'm seeing other guys now get to the big leagues. Are they taking my job? Do I have a place here now? You know, and then you start hyper, analyzing. They're not talking to me like they used to.
- [10:15]
B
Yeah.
- [10:16]
A
Is there something I don't know? And, yeah, the wheels start spinning and it's like your imagination takes over and the worst case scenario is not playing itself out. So we oftentimes talk about how, like, mental the game is when you deal with an injury. It's even more so.
- [10:29]
B
Right.
- [10:30]
A
So you come back and I remember talking to you on several occasions in off seasons where, hey, I watched video and I see what I was doing. So I'm. I'm really focused this off season on getting back to where I was before. And it was like this con. It felt like this constant search for where I was.
- [10:50]
B
Yeah, it was about three years of that. Yeah. Yeah.
- [10:53]
A
And so obviously at the time with Tampa, eventually you move on from Tampa. And then in the next four or five years, it was. I mean, we're talking nine teams, right? It was. And here's what's interesting as. As weird as that is to probably hear and even remember, Funny enough, it's actually a good thing, the fact that. That many organizations would say, I know this guy is good. We want this guy, because we believe we can unlock where it should be.
- [11:24]
B
Yeah.
- [11:24]
A
And then you start going around the, you know, from team to team to team, and it's like, oh, man, I was DFA again. And you played for. Was it four teams in one year?
- [11:33]
B
Yeah, 14.
- [11:34]
A
Four teams in the big leagues. Yeah. Toronto, Pittsburgh, the Mets. Is that the same year?
- [11:41]
B
Yeah. And.
- [11:42]
A
And there's one other.
- [11:43]
B
Yankees.
- [11:43]
A
And the Yankees. Yeah. And it was like, boom, boom. Boom. So I tell people all the time, if you play immaculate grid on baseball reference, you know that game, you're like, the greatest answer because you've played for so many teams that, like, chances are one of these is going to work.
- [11:57]
B
Yes, it is.
- [11:58]
A
All right, so moving on through your career, obviously you end up signing one off season a couple years ago with the Washington Nationals. And I want to talk about that because I think this is going to help people, even in pro ball right now, players who have an opportunity to be a minor league free agent, and they have interest from multiple teams. As we were gathering that interest level, we had other teams that had interest. The Dodgers were one. Right now, the difference in the opportunities was, on the surface, vastly different. Right. The Dodgers were a team that was stacked. They really didn't have much opportunity. They talked to you about the specific things that you could focus on and maybe improve upon your. Your pitching. But ultimately, we decided to sign with the Washington Nationals because we felt like the pathway to be in the big leagues was extremely clear. Yeah, you go into spring training, you do the job, you make the team out of spring training. Right. And this was a team, the Nationals, who. They weren't going to make the playoffs that year. And so we felt like, man, if we do what we should do, like, we're in the big leagues the entire season.
- [12:59]
B
Yeah.
- [13:00]
A
You spend the first month. Yeah. Month in the big leagues, end up getting set down to aaa, and it went downhill.
- [13:07]
B
Right. Went downhill.
- [13:09]
A
The numbers were probably as bad as you could hope, especially given how you did up to that point, even in the big leagues. Right. So just on the surfaces you look at the numbers in the big leagues compared to Triple A, it's like, wait a second. Something is obviously off. Right. There's a mechanical adjustment that needs to be made. And I know we spoke through that. It was like. Yeah. You know, and not to put a ton of blame on the Nationals, these things happen. You didn't feel like there was this support system.
- [13:37]
B
I didn't feel like there was. There was any type of. I. I wouldn't. I don't want to knock anybody or. Or it's not. It's just like they were. Yeah, they were a little behind in the sense of, like, how to really connect and. And coach with. With players. So it's different type of players. Like, it's not one. One shoe fits all. Like, you know. Yeah, yeah, It's. You know, there's a. There's people that, you know, need to have a specific way of talking, whether it's mechanics, whether it's a mental capacity, whether it's, you know, old school style, as far as, like, you know, hey, just aim down and away or. Or whatever it may be. For me, it was. It was more of like, okay, there's something going on mechanically that I cannot. I don't feel right. I don't feel good. As far as moving, I'm throwing 90, 91. Like, there's obviously something going on.
- [14:33]
A
Traditionally been like an upper 90s guy, and in.
- [14:36]
B
Even in the big leagues, I was 96, 98. Like, I. I didn't really know what was going on. Yeah, I didn't know what was going on. And I was just like. And every time I talked to the pitching coach and everything, it was just more of, like, he just seemed exhausted. Right. Because, I mean, you have a lot of different personalities going and trying to.
- [14:57]
A
Talk with and, well, everybody's trying to, like, fix you.
- [15:01]
B
Yeah.
- [15:01]
A
Hey, do this. Try this. This is going to be the thing that gets you back on top. And you're like, yeah.
- [15:06]
B
And what really pushed me away when I. When I just decided, you know what, I'm gonna let this play out, and, like, not really say anything. Not even, like, you know, just try to old school it, right? Was I was. Remember, I was sitting in the dugout, and there was a scout there, you know, and I had seen him around in the big leagues, too, so he was like a big league scout, you know, for the nationals at the time. And I remember asking him, I was like, hey, like, you know, you watch us play, like, do you, like, you know, you've seen me play before. Like, I. You know, this is just asking, like, from a perspective, from a scout, like, you know, what is it that you, like, you see differently, like, in the sense of, like, movement or mechanics. Right? And, like, I wasn't hoping that he would give me an answer. It was just more curiosity in the sense of, like, you know, maybe, like, maybe. Yeah, maybe he sees something, maybe he doesn't. Like, you know, I wasn't expecting much, and he literally told me, he's like, you're a guy that needs reassurance. He's like, you need to be rubbed on the back, and you're not getting that. And I'm like, that is completely the opposite, but. Okay, thank you. Like, perspective. Yeah. Yeah. And that was. That was, you know, and. And everybody's perspective is different. And I was like, really? Okay. All right, thanks. Like, you know, and then walking away from the conversation, I was just like, well, I'm never gonna ask Anybody, anything, ever again in the sense of like, you know, just, just to have a conversation, just to start, just to get to know somebody, right? And it was just like, man, like, all right, whatever, like. And so from then on, I never asked the question and never. I never went to the pitching coach because I already knew where that was going to go. Hey, you just gotta, you know, do this, you know, do that. And it's like, no, like, I'm not talking about pitches. I'm not talking about making the pitch. I'm not location or anything. I'm talking about just, you know, I need to get my velo back. I need to. I need to feel good. I need to feel strong. Right now. I don't feel strong. And so it was just a circle of that. And then, you know, granted, there was a lot of good guys there. I had my fun, you know, and, and, you know, it was just like, hey, let me just grind through this, you know, what else am I gonna do? Right? And that's what I did. And what.
- [17:26]
A
So you, you get to the end of that season, which. Let me actually pause for a second because you say something that I think is. Is a profound statement that may have just. They glossed over the audience, because I think everybody needs assurance.
- [17:39]
B
Yeah, up to. Yeah, up to a point. You know, but this is like, you know, and I think he's coming from a place where it's like, hey, you're a grown full man. I'm a grown man. I'm not going to sit here. And yeah, I'm not going to sugarcoat it. And, and which I respect. I respect that way more than anything else. And so, like, that's why, you know, when I walked away from it, I was like, okay, like, yeah, you know, there's a reason why I talked to this guy. There's a reason why he said that to me. And, and, and there's a reason why I feel this way. I'm going to walk away from it and in the sense of, like, I'm going to take it, I'm going to learn from it, and I'm going to move on. Yep. And I didn't take it as a negative. I wasn't pissed or wasn't or upset or anything. It was more of like, oh, yeah, like, okay, thanks.
- [18:19]
A
So what's interesting is, remember Derek Norris, catcher in the big leagues, all star catcher? Yeah. So I had him on the podcast and, you know, he does a lot of the hitting development now and, you know, for a bunch of young, young guys, and he talks About a guy that he works with who's a top prospect in the minor leagues right now in aaa. And, and he says he goes. Often times I get a phone call from this guy after a game and I know immediately upon him calling me, like he just went over four with four punches or something and he's like full on spiraling, right. And he's like, all he needs to hear initially is, hey, brother, you're right there.
- [18:54]
B
Yeah, right.
- [18:55]
A
It's either you're swinging at the wrong pitch or it's probably timing related. But like, this isn't a mechanical change you need to make. But. So that's the reassurance that I'm talking about. It's like, this isn't going to require this huge revamping because I think that's what as a player you want to be able to control something. The only thing you could, you can't control the result. The only thing you can control is your body and how it moves Right. Now, obviously there are things like what pitch and all that stuff that's important, but yeah, that's why for me, I wanted to make it clear, like every player and for someone who's, let's just say 15 years old, who's listening to this or the parent of the 15 year old. Yeah. On some level, like if you're the dad or the mom that's constantly telling him every game when he's over that, like, what are you doing? Yeah, this isn't working. It's like, yeah, no, no, no, no. You don't need to create more doubt in his mind.
- [19:43]
B
That's a bad habit. Yeah.
- [19:44]
A
No one wants to have success as much as the player does. Yeah, always. So when you oftentimes bring that up, it's. It's having the negative effect. So that doesn't mean that you always have to be positive all the time. But recognize, is this a time where he needs the reassurance or is this a time where this is safe space? Now, I haven't talked to him about anything like this in a long time. Let's now get into some of the stuff that I think you need to work on. So the interesting thing too about you is, you know, if you look at your career like you were always a guy that had an. A nasty breaking ball.
- [20:15]
B
Yeah.
- [20:16]
A
And I remember at this times, like mechanics were changing, release point was changing, breaking ball wasn't as sharp, and it's like, oh, did I lose the pitch? Should I, you know, for lack of a better term, should I shit, can the pitch know Literally, like, should I just rewrite how I'm, like, attacking hitters? Like, what is that problem? And so what I think is so great about this story is so you finish that season and you and I had a conversation, man, and I remember you said to me, you're like, dude, I'm going to give this one last go. Yeah, right?
- [20:44]
B
Yeah.
- [20:45]
A
We go through the off season. The off season before we had a ton of interest.
- [20:49]
B
So before we go on to that, like, when I said, I'm going to give this last go, I was still, like, hung up on the fact that I feel good. I can still do it, right. Like, in my mindset. But then as a. As the off season win, I was like, man, I don't know if I want to do this again. Like, I really don't. Like, I. It was to a point where I was like. I was talking about, like, just hanging them up. Like, I really was gonna walk away.
- [21:12]
A
The enjoyment was gone. Yeah. This wasn't about, like, I'm having fun.
- [21:15]
B
Anymore because I'm going out there and I'm getting my. My. I'm getting my stuff just absolutely pieced up. Like, I'm like, I. This isn't fun. Like, I'm not, You know, I'm not enjoying striking people out, like, in the sense, like, because I'm not. Right. And I'm just. Absolutely. I might as well just grab the ball, turn around, throw it to the wall and tell the guy to go run. Like, yeah, that's how it felt. And I was like, I. What is this? Like, this. This is embarrassing.
- [21:41]
A
This is baseball that I remember.
- [21:42]
B
Yeah, this is embarrassing. Like, what value do I bring to the game if I continue doing this? Right. What value do I bring to myself if I continue doing this in the sense of, like, happiness, achievements, like, you know, stuff like that.
- [21:55]
A
I'm confident when I'm going out there every single outing and I'm getting lit up or walking the house or.
- [22:01]
B
It was just like, when I was having, like, that self evaluation with myself, I was just like, man, like, I don't know if I want to do this anymore. Like, you know, and I. I remember I was watching, like, YouTube videos on.
- [22:12]
A
Is this the off season that year?
- [22:14]
B
Yeah. Yeah. And. And I was watching YouTube videos. Like. Like. Like, you know, I always have, like, this ASMR thing with, like, haircuts, Right. And I love haircuts. I love cutting hair and stuff like that. Yeah.
- [22:27]
A
Anthony, just so everybody knows is, like, the team barber. I. I mean, I know it's not.
- [22:31]
B
In the Minor leagues. Yeah, in the minor leagues.
- [22:33]
A
But, like, it's. It's a talent. Your own hair, but yes.
- [22:36]
B
And now nowadays, like, there's. There's a team bar before every. Everywhere you go. Like, you know, it's funny, but. And that's a skill that, like, that's never going to go away. Right. Everybody's going to need a haircut at some point. Right. And so I was, you know, but on YouTube, it was funny because I was watching this. These. These people turn a van into, like, a camping van or like a mini house or stuff like that. It was just, like, so intriguing, and it was just like, it wasn't the finished product that was intriguing to me. It was more of the process of it. Right. And I found some, like, actual enjoyment of that. Right. And I was like, man, I. If I remember telling myself, I was like, if I can find enjoyment out of this, I know I can find enjoyment out of baseball. Like, you know, and so, like, if it's something this little, I can find something where it can keep my attention and, like, I can really physically enjoy it. Like, it's gotta. The baseball's gotta offer me something. That's pretty profound. Yeah. And so that's whenever I decided, like, you know, and it was so funny because, like, the next day or maybe within that week, I get a phone call from tread. Yep. To talk about.
- [23:48]
A
Well, yeah. So everybody who's listening, what ends up happening is we don't have the interest that we had the. The off season before. And this is the off season of 23, going into 24.
- [23:56]
B
Yeah.
- [23:57]
A
And so we have a conversation, and, yeah, it was, hey, man, this is somewhat common where when you don't have the interest level that, you know, you either need expect, whatever it is, is there are these different, you know, facilities that. That hold these pro bullpen sessions, essentially. And so what that looks like is you go there with 20 other guys that also have experience in pro ball. They invite every single scout from baseball. Every single organization sends a scout for the most part, and your turn, and it's like, let it eat. You're throwing a bullpen in front of all these scouts.
- [24:30]
B
Yeah.
- [24:30]
A
And you do this. And I remember there was, like, you and one other guy where you guys clearly wore the two guys that everybody was talking about. Like, whoa, man.
- [24:38]
B
Yeah, this is.
- [24:40]
A
This looks different. Like, it looks like something's clicked a little bit. And so we had interest from a couple teams. We end up signing with the Cleveland Guardians.
- [24:48]
B
Yeah. Before we get into that, I want to talk about all that, like, just side note. Yeah. So for the audience, like, the Rookie, right?
- [24:57]
A
The.
- [24:57]
B
The. The movie. Right. And I remember I had the conversation with my dad, and he was talking about, like, how was it? How'd it go? And this and that. And then I had to explain it to him, and I was trying to paint this picture for him, and I was like, you remember the movie, the Rookie? Everybody's just there watching, right? And they're just like. There's nobody talking. There's. It's just like. Everybody's shocked. Right. That's how it was. Right. And then it was intimidating because the. The facility was full. There was a lot of people there.
- [25:28]
A
And there's not a ton of room behind.
- [25:30]
B
No.
- [25:30]
A
So it's like everyone's, like, on each other.
- [25:32]
B
Yes. Everybody's on there. You can hear the whispers. You can hear it, like, you know, and it's just like. It was. It was like that environment, and I was just like. When I walked off, and everybody was like, dude, whoa. Like, that was kind of impressive. I was like, oh, thanks. Like, you know, like, in my mind, I'm just like, oh, man, I can still throw 95. Like, right? And then I remember sitting there and I was like, man, that was like the Rookie. Like, that was it. That was it. That was. That was so cool to, like, really take a step back, analyze the room, and just see the experience. Right. And I was nervous as heck. Like, I really was like, you know, and I felt like I was on a big league mountain throwing a bullpen in front of these people. And I was like, man, like. And then that's when we had the conversation. I let you know and. And move on, and we get that offer. Yeah.
- [26:25]
A
You know what's special, too, about that experience, and I think that these. These people listening could learn from this, too, is you have these big events. Like, I'm out in LA right now. The area code games is going on, and, you know, it's at one stadium and there's a ton of scouts. All these guns go up. So many players approach this environment, and it's the same feeling, like, extremely overwhelming. Everything's on the line.
- [26:46]
B
There's a fight or flight mode. Exactly.
- [26:48]
A
I need to impress everybody. And the thing that I think is so profound about what you said is you were able to kind of slow things down and actually look around and almost appreciate it. Doesn't take away the nerves because you want to do well, but it. That slows it down. And so for everybody listening, it's like, yeah, if. If your son is going to a big event, like, remind him, take a step back and just look around, put it in perspective, and then go out there and do your job. And it doesn't always go perfectly well.
- [27:14]
B
No.
- [27:15]
A
But if you can slow it down a little bit, there's going to be at least some level of appreciation for the experience, which will ultimately benefit you.
- [27:22]
B
So. And the way I looked at it was like, going onto the mountain, I was like, all right, I got 15 pitches. Fifteen, yeah. What's the worst that can happen?
- [27:30]
A
Right?
- [27:31]
B
Right.
- [27:31]
A
Well, and I think it was also good, too, that you had, like, level set with yourself, where it's like, hey, I'm gonna give this one last go. So, in a sense, you didn't put all of this pressure on yourself, as much as I know that there was pressure that.
- [27:43]
B
Yeah, of course, of course.
- [27:45]
A
But, like, you almost like, what do I have to lose?
- [27:49]
B
Yeah. Right. I had literally nothing to lose. I had everything to gain, nothing to lose. And I lived by that. I lived by that that year.
- [27:56]
A
So we signed with the Guardians. Part of your contract was something for everybody listening. It's called an assignment clause, or like an upward mobility clause, which, by the.
- [28:06]
B
Way, when you told me that, I never once heard that ever working. Ever working. And it may have worked.
- [28:13]
A
I've had it work multiple times. You're. You're an extreme example of like, oh, man, it's obvious that it worked.
- [28:19]
B
Quick.
- [28:20]
A
Yeah. Right. Well, so let me explain this, like, what happens so that everybody understands. So what an assignment clause is, is for a guy who signs a minor league deal, there's, you know, a major league side, meaning if you get called up to the big leagues, this is your salary in the big leagues. But if you're in the minor leagues, this is your salary in the minor leagues. If you're in the minor leagues for an extended period of time that season, there's a date that is negotiable where if you are not in the big leagues by that date, we exercise the upward mobility or assignment clause, which means every organization gets an email from, in this case, the Guardians, essentially saying, we are giving you the opportunity team. If you want Anthony, he has to go to your big league club. Right. And if you want him in your big league club, then we first have the opportunity to say, no, we going to bring them up to our big league club.
- [29:10]
B
Yeah.
- [29:10]
A
If no team has interest, nothing happens. You stay in the minor leagues, in this case with the Guardians. So what ends up happening for you is you obviously threw well, which made teams inquire about you. The Dodgers were the team that ended up getting you from the Guardians. So the Guardians decided to essentially let you go. Right. You go to the Dodgers and you're in the big leagues. And that was. Do you remember the date? That was May 19th. May 19th. You end up getting to the big leagues and I don't know if you could write a better script for your success.
- [29:48]
B
Yeah.
- [29:49]
A
How it worked out for both you and the Dodgers and to put it in perspective for people. So you got, you get called up to the Dodgers, you're in the big leagues. You are lights out.
- [30:01]
B
Yeah.
- [30:01]
A
You quickly get thrust into like a meaningful role in the bullpen.
- [30:05]
B
Yeah. So the first game was an X raining game. Ellie De La Cruz was on second extra innings. I remember it was Mike Ford.
- [30:18]
A
Is this at Dodger Stadium?
- [30:20]
B
Yes. It was a day game. It was Mike Ford, Candelario from the Reds and I think maybe Espana right after him. Yeah. And I remember I all I told myself was like, do not let Ellie get to third base. Right. If he scores from a base, he's going to score from a base.
- [30:43]
A
Right. Which right from that guy from going from second to third is like.
- [30:47]
B
Yeah. Like, I was just like, do not let him get to third base. Like if anything be quick to the plate or mixture looks, whatever, whatever you got to do to not let him get to third base. And yeah, I went 1, 2, 3 and he didn't get third base. And I was just like, I don't know how he did not steal. Like I, I. So I remember walking up the mountain, I was like, I don't know how you didn't go to third base really though. But yeah, right after that it was, you know, I think Ohtani hit the walk off single and then we won.
- [31:19]
A
And then things started to just develop.
- [31:22]
B
Right. So the next day, I wish we had a baseball the next day I get to the field and everything and I don't know what to expect. I'm still like, I don't know how long I'm gonna be here, but I'm gonna enjoy it. Right. And Connor McGinnis, the assistant pitching coach, he's the smartest person I've ever been around. He's like, hey, how do you hold your slider? I show him and I'm literally throwing him a three finger. Throwing them a three finger slider, right. And they have this shirt with this dinosaur and it has like how you hold that. So the meaning behind that is when someone like throws like a 40 foot pitch or they air mail something we all like, put our hand up like this. And, like, how you hold that, right? It's like a little T Rex with little arms. And that's the shirt. And that had no idea about it. And then they were like, oh, my God. That's literally how you hold that. Like, the grip that I had.
- [32:21]
A
They're like, what's that grip?
- [32:22]
B
It was literally. If you took the ball out, it.
- [32:24]
A
Was literally like, how did you hold it?
- [32:25]
B
I had the seams. I had two seams on these two fingers, and then this one was off. So when they took the ball out, I was like. It was like, literally how you hold that. And so I started laughing, and they're like, okay, like, let's try this grip. You know, I've been looking at your stuff. I've been looking at your arm path and how it unfolds, and it gets real technical. He's like, hey, I want you to spike it here. I want you to grab it here. And like, you know, just think, you know, hula hoop sensation. Like, hula hoop. Hula hoop. Right.
- [32:49]
A
Well, I love that you just said that too, because it's not a matter of, like, hey, just hold it this way. It's. Hold it this way and think this.
- [32:56]
B
Yes.
- [32:57]
A
Because without the thought. Yeah. You may be letting the ball go in a different.
- [33:02]
B
Absolutely.
- [33:02]
A
Way.
- [33:03]
B
And the way they explained it to me was, okay, like. And this was, like, mind blowing because, like, the only thought that I ever had with a breaking ball is I get the fingers to the front. Right. And that is so unbelievably not true. Like. Or believably, like, unrealistic. Yeah. Right. And so the way they explained it to me is like, okay, the ball's gonna work off your pronation, which, you know, when you're pronating through. Through a throw, it's because you're decelerating the arm. That way your arm doesn't pop out of socket and all that stuff. Right. And I remember being told I'm a heavy pronator, which, hence why I had a good change up. And they were like, you're gonna have to hang on to this pitch. Like, you have to hang on to it and let it. Let it work off the pronation aspect of your throw. And I say, okay.
- [33:50]
A
And no one's ever told you that before.
- [33:52]
B
Nobody, Right? They've always told me, you can't throw a breaking ball because you're pronated. You're pronation heavy. Like, you can't do it.
- [33:58]
A
Like, interesting.
- [33:59]
B
Can't get the fingers to the front. You can't clip the front of the baseball, blah, blah. And I'm like, okay. I. I remember there's so many teams that told me this, and that's why I could never develop a breaking ball again. And I remember the first throw, it was like. It was like a sweeper. I was like, oh, my God. Like, I was so ecstatic because I was like, man, I. I made a ball turn, right? I. I've never seen that. And so I told him. I looked back and I was like, I'm gonna throw it in again. He's like, please don't. You just. You literally just threw one throw. Like, please don't throw it again. I was like, I'm gonna throw out the mound. He's like, okay, right? And it's like a new kid with a. It's like a new toy with a kid, right?
- [34:35]
A
You wanna.
- [34:36]
B
You wanna go and, you know, and so we'll get off. I finished my throwing program, and I get on the mountain, right? And I throw it, and it's. It's good. And I'm striking it and everything. And I'm like, I'm gonna throw it in the game. Like, you know, and like, that's like, first step, get it to turn. Second step, how does it look off the mount? Third step, am I striking it? Am I. Is it consistent? Right? And then I bottle that feeling that I had at the release point or. Or throughout the throw, and I ball that up. I go to my locker and I'm so excited, and I cannot wait for the game to start. I'm, like, itching to get in the game, right? And when I got in the game, I threw it and it just. I just took off.
- [35:18]
A
What did he say to you after the game? Was he like, what are you doing?
- [35:22]
B
No, no. He was like, good job. I was like, did you see it? Right. It was the first thing I asked him.
- [35:27]
A
How many. How many times you throw it?
- [35:28]
B
I don't remember. I don't remember. It was against the D backs.
- [35:32]
A
Was the first time you threw it? Was it a strike? Was it swing and miss? What was it?
- [35:35]
B
I struck two people out. Yeah. And after that, I was like, oh, yeah, huh? And. And so he was just like, keep going, keep going. Like, you know, just keep going with it. Keep going with it. And he's. Because he saw, like, my reaction. He saw the, like, the confidence growing in the pitch, and he was like. He didn't want to say anything to, like, deter, like, me away from that. Like, like, take me away from all that. And usually Just keep going. Keep going. And so every day, until this day, I still throw it, like, a bunch. Yeah, a bunch. And what's so.
- [36:12]
A
What I love about this, too, is. So. I obviously saw how the Dodgers did something similar with another one of my guys before you, Ryan Brazier.
- [36:20]
B
Who. Who.
- [36:21]
A
You know, same thing, but with a cutter. And all of a sudden, it was.
- [36:24]
B
Like, yeah, we actually. He was still there, like. And we talked about it. He's like, yeah, Connor's the man. Like, Connor's gonna get your A. And this is before he even showed me the grip. Like, they're like, dude, you're gonna have to work with Connor, and he's gonna get you. Right? I promise you. I was like, okay.
- [36:39]
A
Well, what's interesting is, you know, again, going back to the year before we were talking to the Nationals and the Dodgers, there was a emphasis on, we have information that we think could be beneficial for you. You know, we took a different path now, coming back to the Dodgers again. Now it's like, oh, yeah, maybe this was the information. This is what you guys were talking about. Right? And, yeah, I mean, it's. So you end up, you know, continuing to have a phenomenal season. You're. I mean, you guys won the World Series. Your jerseys in the hall of Fame.
- [37:11]
B
Yeah, that. Which was wild. I was like, whoa.
- [37:14]
A
This is what I mean, though, when I'm like, this story is, this wasn't three years later. Yeah, this was that season.
- [37:21]
B
Yeah.
- [37:21]
A
You threw, you know, a bullpen at tread. Get signed by the Guardians, get brought to the Dodgers, be a meaningful role in the bullpen, win the World Series. And then now you're Anthony Bonda, putting on the mask and the. You know.
- [37:35]
B
Yeah, the.
- [37:36]
A
It's like. I mean, I. I cannot script a better story. But again, people think, oh, yeah, Anthony Bond is now this guy. Like, out of curiosity, let me go look at his minor league numbers. Like, wait, what? Yeah, this. Like, this guy. And. And what's interesting is, so now, at the end of this season, we talked about this before, you'll have four seasons or four years in the big leagues. But people who don't really understand the business think, oh, four seasons in the big leagues. Like, you get called up and spend four straight seasons in the big leagues. Like, no, man, the first time you got to the big leagues was 2017. 20. Yeah, 2017.
- [38:09]
B
July 22, 2017.
- [38:10]
A
And at the end of last season, you finally got three full seasons.
- [38:15]
B
Yeah.
- [38:16]
A
So it is a. It is a constant. I mean, you were shuffled up and down, different team to different team. As you reflect back on that now, do you believe that you had to go through all of those different things to get to this place where, like, it had to go the way that it went?
- [38:36]
B
Yeah.
- [38:36]
A
Is there anything that someone could have told you at, you know, 24 that you think would have just clicked and been like, oh, if he would have told me that before, I probably would have never had to go through what I went through.
- [38:49]
B
It's easy to say, yeah, yeah. But I don't think so. No, I. I don't think so. I think everybody goes and has their own journey going through the ups and downs in baseball within life. It's going to happen. Right. And it's so funny because, you know, like, when I look back at it, it's like. And like, I learned this from that. I learned this from that. And, you know, going through it, I always, like, I was, like, always so eager to learn the next thing, like, oh, this is going to work. This is going to work. This is going to work. Right? And going through that and trying those. Those things ultimately got me the time and in the sense of, like, going through one year, throwing to a next year, next year, and, like, people like, how'd you do it? I was like, well, I was just so focused on my work. Like, I wanted to get better so bad that. And I wanted to be good so bad that I just. Just went for it. I went for it. I went for it. I never. I never gave up until that point where I was like, I'm exhausted and this isn't fun anymore. Right. And so, but, yeah, I believe that everybody needs to go, you know, through some type of ups and downs, and it's going to teach you something. It's going to teach you a lot about yourself, regardless of what people say. Right. Like, that was the biggest thing that I overcame. I. And I still fight with it to this day, like, wondering, like, what people think or what. What they say. But then at the end of the day, I always remind myself, like, they weren't there. When you're going through it. Who cares?
- [40:21]
A
Yeah. And I'll pay you a compliment, too, because I remember when you got called up to the big leagues with Arizona. I mean, there were instances where, like, after every single outing, you'd call me and be like, hey, did they say anything to you?
- [40:30]
B
Yeah.
- [40:30]
A
Like, there's again, like, I'm curious, are they happy with my improvement? Or they, you know, I didn't know how it worked.
- [40:37]
B
I didn't know all the backbone of it.
- [40:40]
A
When you Also want to know, like, if there's something that they think I need to be doing, I want to know what it is.
- [40:44]
B
Yeah.
- [40:45]
A
And. And in pro ball, I think there's something to be said for getting that information. But it's also like, that information comes in in different times, and there's no player that would ever have success if the team, after every single game, outing, whatever it is, like, hey, this is what you need to be aware of.
- [41:04]
B
It's just.
- [41:04]
A
It's. It's too much information.
- [41:06]
B
Absolutely. And it. It puts a panic in a. In a player, which I put myself in that position. And I. I do want to compliment the Dodgers as far as, like, they do that very well. They will watch and they will believe, and they always. They always look at the big picture, and if it's a continued struggle or continue thing that is leading to a negative output or, you know, whatever, they will come to you and say, hey, maybe we should. You know, let's look at it. And this is what's going on. Right. And this is what we need to do. This is what we think we should do that will give you success back or whatever. Right. And they're so good at communicating that. There's. I've been on, you know, I've been on a lot of teams, and there's like, there's some teams that would just, like, give up on you right away, where it's like, they don't, like, one, they don't have much value in you. Two, it's like they expect you just to do it. You know, you're a pro athlete. You got to do it. Yeah, but we're all humans, right? We all forget that. And, you know, we fall into these bad habits. We create bad habits, and we all just kind of really. At least I can speak for myself, really, is like, what I. What I tend to do is like, I fall back onto the year before. What the success I had. As far as, like, not talking about 2024, I'm talking about, like, within my career. Like, well, I was doing this and I was good. Like, now I'm doing it and like, it sucks. Like, well, you know, and then there's just different outputs and out, like, outlets to it. What the Dodgers will come and explain it to you, or if they have a, like, not a problem, but they see something that's becoming a problem, they address it. Yeah. And that's. That's. That's the communication that's so different from anybody else.
- [42:57]
A
So I'm really vocal with all of my guys. Who are amateurs or even in college, especially pitchers, where, you know, when you think about how pitching has changed over the last, I mean, 10 years, obviously, but even in the last, like, five years. Right. Like, just look at bullpens today.
- [43:15]
B
Yeah.
- [43:15]
A
Compared to bullpens five years ago, like Liam Hendricks, the perfect example. So Liam Hendricks, who, you know, was a reliever of the year, you know, multiple different times, ends up unfortunately, you know, getting cancer. And he misses, you know, part of this season, comes back, and then obviously then he blows out and then misses the rest of that season and then the following. And so even in those two seasons that he's missed, when he now comes back this year, like, the game has changed.
- [43:42]
B
The.
- [43:43]
A
The. And it's not expectation. It's like what people are now doing, what hitters are now used to seeing has completely transformed. So one of the things I talk to these young amateurs about is like, as you think about the college program, if you don't identify a program that you feel like is going to do a good job developing you with a lot of this kind of new age stuff, the concern that I have is if you get drafted, you oftentimes don't have control over the organization that drafts you. So if the wrong organization drafts you, who doesn't do a good job at some of this stuff, the pitching development, the communication, now it's like, well, when are you going to learn these lessons? Do you have to go through a situation like you had to go through where you're bouncing from team to team? And like, there's a lot of luck involved in that, too. Like, I hope the right team gets me at the right time. So I tell these guys early. It's like, when you're making the decision of the college, you know, of your choice, that needs to be a component. Not just, I like the, you know, the city I go to, or like, you know, it's. It's in the sec and it's a cool place to be. It's like, really think about it from the standpoint of if your job is going to be as a pitcher, who do I think is going to do the best job developing my skill? Because then when you learn the lesson in college and then you get an opportunity in pro ball, well, now you have that foundation. So if a team drafts you who maybe doesn't do a good job doing that, guess what happens now? You already have a foundation to rely on and go back to.
- [45:13]
B
Yeah.
- [45:13]
A
Instead of, like now grasping at straws, oh, I chose a. I chose this school. And, you know, for the wrong reasons. And now this team drafted me and I'm not learning it still. Yeah, it's like, oh yeah.
- [45:25]
B
And I think there's different outlets to or like avenues to go down when you get stuck in that. And then like tread is one of them. Like, you know, I'm not trying to, you know, say that's just the only answer, but facilities like that are the reasons why they exist. Right. There's a reason why pro ball players go to those facilities is because they are stuck in those. In that avenue where it's like I didn't do myself a service and now I'm looking for something and the organization isn't really helping. I feel like I'm losing it. And they turn to a third party and typically, you know, the third party is there to help you. Right. They don't have a ton of guys that they have to manage at one time. Sure. There's time slots and stuff like that. They have clients. Sure. But what I'm saying is like you have your individual one on one time and there's nobody that's trying to win the World Series in a third party facility. Right, right. So they have the time to talk to you and, and evaluate and see what you are thinking and work at it. Yeah. Really. So like, I think that's why a lot of pro ball players go to those third party facilities and really like take off from there.
- [46:47]
A
Yeah, they want to. Well, they want to take their career in their own hands. And like, I don't want to be hamstrung by exactly this one way of doing things. I, I'm smart enough to know there's something else out there. I need to. If you're not going to give it to me, I need to like go seek it myself.
- [46:59]
B
A prime example, you know, I'm not talking about just third party, but a prime example that I'm thinking off the top of my head would be Tyler Class now. Right. Started with Pittsburgh. Right. And he talks about it all the time where he's like that sinkers away pitch inside, you know, you, you know, and it was just like, it was just the stature of just a way of pitching that everybody knew how the Pittsburgh Pirates were going to pitch them. Right. But that didn't fit glass now. It didn't fit him. And he talks about it where it's like, you, I'm 6, 7 and I'm throwing sinkers down and away. But he didn't know that he had this ultimate weapon in this four seam. Right. He didn't have the, you know, what they talk about now is the vertical break and all that stuff, and the release point, the extension, he's six, seven. Right. And, you know, so when he went to Tampa, that took off. Yeah.
- [47:58]
A
They unlocked it.
- [47:59]
B
Yeah. And so, like, that's exactly what we were talking about in the sense of, like, an organization not knowing how to really develop or not develop, but, like, unlock that for a player versus going to a third party or a different organization that will unlock it for you. And so that's what really ultimately saved class. Yeah. Like, that trade right there is what saved class.
- [48:24]
A
Yeah. And so, again, like, not wanting to be in a position where you need the luck of the right team trading for me, it's like, how do you seek out the information early, learn it? And again, it's not a straight line. You're not going to go to one place and it's going to click right away. And it's like, there you go. You got your thing and now you're good.
- [48:40]
B
And fortunately, unfortunately, like, now teams are starting to buy into that. And they're starting to buy into, like, okay, these are the characteristics that this guy has. These are the characteristics that we are missing in our bullpen. This is the guy that has it. We want to plug them in and stuff like that. That's ultimately kind of what it's going down to.
- [48:57]
A
Now, the big leagues is a very copycat league where all it takes is you look at organizations that are good at certain things, and these organizations that aren't so good see it and say, oh, we just need to duplicate this. There's mistakes that are made even with that, though.
- [49:10]
B
Yes.
- [49:10]
A
Because it's not a matter of just like, okay, get any guy who can teach this. It's like, you even talked about it. The communication piece, what is being relayed? How is it being conveyed? Who's the personality? It may work for Tyler Glass now. It may not work for Anthony Bonda.
- [49:25]
B
Yeah. And don't get me wrong, Tyler Glass now is a big communicator. Like, you know, and there's. There's a bunch of superstars that are huge on communicating. There's a bunch of that aren't, like, just the way it is. That's just the human nature of it. But, you know, he's. He's a fun guy to talk to about, you know, mechanics and stuff like that. And it's. It's, you know, and you look at him, you're like, dude, you're. You're elite. Yeah. You know, and it's just like, man, like, but he's just a big communicator. He. He has to basically tell you what he's thinking in the mechanical standpoint to basically give you the answer in the sense of what he's trying to talk about.
- [50:05]
A
So I'm curious. You talked about how, like, process is very important. Walk everybody through. Like, what's your, what is your warm up? And like all of the pre work that you're doing before game. Like, give us an idea of what that looks like. Because I know so many of these kids who are pitchers are like, what does it look like in the big leagues? Like, how has it changed for you and what is it like today?
- [50:25]
B
Yeah, I'm probably not the best guy to follow that with, but I found that what works for me, really. And this isn't one shoe fits all, like, right. Some guys I watch roll out all day, they stretch all day, we're all out all day. You know, they just love to feel ready, like loose, lubricated, whatever it may be. Me, I. Typically, what I do is I get to the field every day or it's every other day. I work out, right? And then workout's roughly 45 minutes.
- [51:03]
A
I love bringing that up because so many kids today, they're like, oh, I'm in the gym for two hours working out. I'm like, yeah, two hours every day.
- [51:09]
B
That's an, That's a off season type of deal.
- [51:11]
A
Exactly.
- [51:12]
B
Yeah. Like in season, it's like, okay, let's. It's basically what it is, is like stress the body, right? And it sucks in the beginning because like you stress the body, then you go pitch and then you have a day off, right? Or you may not have a day off and then you stress the body again. So it's every other day. You're working out, you're in the gym, you're moving weight, right? But you're stressing the body to be able to handle the stress throughout the year. Right? And that's what I'm noticing. Right. I feel great. I'm healthy. You know, I bounce back really well. And it's like, well, what is it? It's not, I don't, I don't do a ton of recovery stuff, right. I'm not, I'm not just hammering that out. It's. Well, it's like when I look at the big picture, it's like, well, it's because I'm continuously working out and stressing the body every other day. And then you put the aspect or element of hitching throwing a baseball, it's a. It's a weight you're throwing away. It's stressing the body even more. And then you're running, doing, you know, and you're stressing. Yeah. And the body's an amazing thing where it's like, sure, you may feel tired, you may feel sore, but it's not gonna break right. You're gonna. It's gonna. It's building the level of stress to get to a point where it's like, you can recover, bounce back, and keep going. So my routine would be like, you know, work out, get ready for practice. I go out, play catch. I touch the mount every single day. I'm a big believer in touching the mountain every single day. And it's. It's only about eight to 12 throws. Right. And I get what I want out of that in the sense of I'm gonna land a slider. I want to see the shape of my slider. I want to see my sinker in on a lefty. I want to see a force him up. If I nail those things, great. I'm. I'm in a good spot. I move on.
- [52:59]
A
What percentage are you, like, throwing?
- [53:02]
B
Are you, like, typically as a reliever? Typically, I'm probably 85%. 85, 90%. Like, I want to get as close as I can. Game speed, which you'll never duplicate. Yes, you'll. It's a different speed. You're in fight or flight mode the entire time, and your. Your body's moving super fast, and you're never going to be able to get to that point. And so from there, it's like, okay, work out, touch the mound. You know, go inside. If I need any type of treatment or shock therapy, whatever, I'll do that. Whatever. Eat, hang out for a little bit, take a shower, get ready for the game, go to the bullpen and wait for the phone to ring. There's not a whole lot of prep for me, really. There's. There's guys that prep a huge amount. There's guys that prep normal amounts. There's guys that, you know, it's. Everybody's different, and there's no right or wrong. Right?
- [54:06]
A
Yeah. It's all personalized.
- [54:07]
B
Exactly.
- [54:08]
A
I think the biggest mistake. Biggest mistake a guy could make if he gets called up is like, what's Shohei doing? I want to do that. Don't do that. Right.
- [54:16]
B
It's your routine. You develop that routine. Right. And if that works for you, great, you know, And. And if you feel good, you listen to your body in this routine that you're Developing. You listen to your body. If you feel great, keep doing it, keep going with it. And, and if you want to add some things, great. And if they work out, great. If they don't, get rid of it.
- [54:35]
A
Was that taught or was that like you just learned through experience? Yeah, there's no, like, do it this way. And this is the only way to.
- [54:42]
B
It used to be that way. When I first came into the, into pro ball, it was like, hey, this is. But it was almost like when I look back at it now, it's like I. It's smart way of doing it because it's, it's it an introduction of how to build a routine. Right. If you tell a kid that doesn't, that doesn't have a routine in pro ball. Right. Brand new to pro ball, doesn't have a routine. Hey, you need to have a routine. Well, he doesn't know where to start.
- [55:06]
A
Well, and it's also like, yeah, I know. What should it look like?
- [55:08]
B
Yeah, given like, you know, some college guys that come from a college program that developed that already. Great. Stick to that, add to it, subtract from it, keep moving forward. Guys that come out of high school. There's not a lot of high school programs that develop routines. Right. So, you know, those kids, those young guys are the ones that you need to kind of address that to. Okay. You need to have a routine, and if you don't know what it looks like or how to do it, speak up. And if you don't, you're going to be lost. You're going to be doing, you know, stuff that you don't even know that may benefit you, may hurt you. I don't know. But. And then if the phone rings and it's me, I just get up and I like, I start throwing, I start. I, I basically shock the body in the sense, like I started curl hopping, throwing. I'm trying to move my legs fast, get them like, get the body to get to go fast.
- [56:08]
A
And you have a certain number of throws that you feel like you need to get to in the bullpen. And you can always control that too. It's like, hey, Anthony, get up. Because this guy gets on. You're in.
- [56:18]
B
Yeah, yeah. Well, if it's that quick, you're like, oh, oh, man. Like, I need to get going. Like, usually they, they do a very good job of like, hey, fourth guy. Yeah, fourth guy this inning. Get him ready for the fourth guy. And so we kind of play as, as the game's going on, we play the throws, amount of throws with the game. And that's. That's kind of like taught in a way. Like, you watch guys self taught. It's. You know, some people, if you. If they just see you rapid firing, they'll tell you to slow down. Like, you know, stuff like that. And then the. The best thing I do that I developed last year was when I'm going in, I always tell myself, you can't control anything. You have nothing to lose. You have everything to gain from it. Let's go right, get to the mound. Throwing my pitches. At this point, I'm numb because, like, that fight or flight's already going, and I'm like, I. I don't feel anything. I'm watching, you know, the pitch shapes. I'm. I'm feeling good, I'm feeling whippy. Ball's coming out. I'm like, okay, cool, great.
- [57:33]
A
At what point in the bullpen are you thinking about? All right, so I got the fourth guy. Who is it? This guy. Okay, and at what point are you, like, already game planning, like, how you're gonna attack them?
- [57:45]
B
Basically, when the bullpen coach tells us. Yeah, like, hey, you're. Get ready for. I don't know.
- [57:55]
A
Remember, you're playing Toronto.
- [57:57]
B
Yeah, yeah. What? Vladi. Vladi comes to mind. Right? I'm not gonna face Vladdy, but I get it. Get ready for blatty. He's, you know, this is where he's at. This is what he. He hunts. This is. You know, it's like, okay, so, like, as you're throwing, you're. I'm trying to, like, mimic. I feel like fastballs. Don't throw the fastball. Throw it down and away. All right, I'm trying to throw it down and away, like. And so it's like understanding what pitch you're gonna use the most as an individual, and then understanding, does this guy handle that pitch and where does he handle it? And let's just try to stay away from that area. And so, yeah, that's.
- [58:37]
A
So what would you say? I think a lot of times in. In amateur baseball, especially, you know, as players start getting better, this. This doesn't necessarily apply. But sometimes in amateur baseball, you know, these guys on these travel teams, they play with the team and the catcher, somebody, they don't know all that well, and there's really not. They don't work tremendously well together there. There's an unfamiliarity when you're in the big leagues, obviously. It's like, chances are the catcher, who's receiving pretty good right now, there could be differences from, like, you know, this guy to that guy. But it's not a drastic difference like you would see in amateur baseball.
- [59:11]
B
Yeah.
- [59:12]
A
What would you say to the. The pitcher who, you know, goes out there and he's like, man, that catcher just totally messed me up. Wasn't. Wasn't sticking the str. You know, he's. He's taking the ball out of the zone with my slider. And you're. And you're really frustrated with the catcher. Like, what would you tell that guy?
- [59:28]
B
Well, I would just tell him the truth. Like, hey, like, doesn't know you. Right. Um, and if. If the catcher is this good to be on the team of this quality, like, you should be able to handle that. Right. But then also, like, at the same time, it's like, okay, you don't have a scouting report. Right. And if you do, I think it's BS because it's crazy.
- [59:51]
A
Like, how do you have a scouting report at 17 years old?
- [59:54]
B
Yeah. People. What do you have people following people scouting. Like, come on. Like, you shouldn't have any.
- [59:59]
A
And it's also, like, how much data do you really have? Like, you got, like, three games.
- [60:03]
B
Yeah, exactly. So telling this to, like, a, you know, travel ball, young kid, you know, don't forget to have fun. You want one, right? And I know you're competing, and I know it's frustrating, and I know that, you know, everybody doesn't want to fail and this and that. Right. But you got to remind themselves, like, okay, look, this guy doesn't know you. You're throwing your slider way out, and he's not sticking it. Probably a ball. Right. Don't blame the catcher. Right. If you want to basically do well in travel ball, you got to be free. And. And I'm only talking from experience in the sense of, like, what I went through order of the plate, dude, go to the plate and see what happens. You know, you don't have to be.
- [60:55]
A
Perfect, you know, and also, like a. Control what you can control. Can you control? Especially if you're like, you know, first pitch, fastball, strike. Okay, I feel good. Throw the slider, takes it out of the zone, and automatically, you know, right away you're like, dude, yeah. And now you're worried about, like, with.
- [61:12]
B
The slider, if you're trying to strike it, like, it's going to be up. Yeah. Like, it's not going to be a down slider. Like those down. Down on the corner sliders. Those are oops. Sliders.
- [61:23]
A
Like, you know, I think sometimes in. In amateur baseball, a lot of Times the pitchers, they're, like, trying to be crafty.
- [61:30]
B
Yeah, Right.
- [61:31]
A
Instead of, like, we'll just pitch, like, what was the pitch you just threw before? Shouldn't that pitch, on some level, dictate what the next pitch is that you're gonna throw? And, like, what did he do with that pitch?
- [61:40]
B
That's kind of how you develop pitching. Right, Right. Because if you're not doing it that way, then you're just a thrower.
- [61:45]
A
I just think in. In amateur baseball, they think. All these kids think they can overpower everybody.
- [61:50]
B
I mean. Yeah. Right.
- [61:51]
A
And at this next level. Amen. If they know fastball's coming, I don't care if it's 103.
- [61:57]
B
Yeah. Right.
- [61:57]
A
And it moves this much.
- [61:58]
B
You just watch. I just watched somebody from Arizona Park 104 over.
- [62:04]
A
Yeah.
- [62:05]
B
And I'm like. And then I talked. I actually had a conversation with Mookie about it, and he's like, what were the pitches before? And that was his first question. I said, oh, I think he went slider. Fastball, fastball, fastball. He goes, I don't care how hard it is. Like, you can catch up to a fastball.
- [62:19]
A
That's all these guys see as Velo now.
- [62:20]
B
Yeah.
- [62:21]
A
These are the best guys in the world. Like, they're not. They're not, you know, overwhelmed by that.
- [62:25]
B
Yeah.
- [62:25]
A
Remember Brandon League? Remember that name? He was with the Dodgers at one point. He was a closer with Toronto. So he was like, this was. I mean, this was many years ago, but he was a client. And he was in Double A at the. This was when the minor leagues had All Star games, Eastern League, All Star Game. And at the time, most guys were throwing. The hardest guys would throw is, like, maybe 99. Right. Very few were hitting 100. He's in the double A all star game. He hits 100. And the thing that made him so impressive is he would throw, like, almost like three quarters and his ball would move this much. So he's throwing a hundred, but it's just, like. It's crazy, right? He gets called to the big leagues with Toronto, they're facing Boston. He faces Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz, and he couldn't locate his breaking ball. And so he thinks. Well, not thinks. Like, he had no choice at that point. He's literally like, I have to throw a strike. I mean, doesn't matter how far the ball moves, man. Like, Manny Ramirez, I think, double off the wall. David Ortiz, homer.
- [63:20]
B
And I'm like.
- [63:21]
A
And they're doing that because they know you got to throw a Fastball.
- [63:25]
B
Yeah. And the thing is, is that what pitchers lose sight of is hitters are up there. The first. I bet you may get away with. Right. But they're analyzing and eliminating a pitch.
- [63:37]
A
Yeah, well, so talk. Talk about that a little bit.
- [63:39]
B
That's important. The first thing I try to do is, like, I try to strike a slider or strike something, right? So they can understand, like, okay, he can strike it. And you typically. It's going to be a breaking ball, right? And because the fastball, obviously, you got to strike. Yeah. So you. Now they have two pitches to worry about. And if you have a third pitch, like a change up, like, and you can strike it. Now they got three. There's three different movements that they have to really, really, you know, basically guess. And so what hitters in the big league level, what they're really good at, and. And this is just from speaking to other guys and. And just talking baseball. What a lot of guys do is they eliminate a pitch, you know, and then the good ones eliminate the location. And it's like, whoa. Right. I remember Freddie actually talked about that. I'm not gonna go into details and stuff like that, but he talked about eliminating locations. That was the first time I ever heard that. I was like, whoa. But if. If, say, you have to face three guys, right? Nowadays you can't strike a slider or a breaking ball or eliminating it. They don't care. Yeah. Like, okay, you can't strike it, right? And if the guy in. In the first hitter, he pops up, he goes, you know, two one, and you bounce two sliders. Now it's, you know. Or, yeah, you got to 2:1 by bouncing two sliders, right? You went fastball, slider bounce, slider bounce. Now you're 2:1. Now he's eliminating the slider in that at bat, right? And then you throw a heater and he pops it straight up, right? Like, okay, you got one out. But the guy on deck just saw that you bounced two sliders.
- [65:28]
A
Yep.
- [65:29]
B
Now what is he going to hunt? He's hunting fastball.
- [65:32]
A
This is the game of chess.
- [65:33]
B
Yes. And now he's hunting fastball. Now you can really mess him up if you strike the slider right now he's like, oh, he struck the slider. It's like, there's no way he's gonna do it. Three in a row. Throw another slider. Strike it.
- [65:44]
A
Yeah, and now, yeah, now he's like, now.
- [65:46]
B
Now he's like, okay, I'm still hunting. Hunting heater. Now you throw a slider. That should have been hit.450. And he swung through it. He struck him out.
- [65:55]
A
Well, the interesting thing is, like, you know, there's obviously all these studies that have been done, you know, with effective velocity and all these different things, but, like, you know, the hitter, like, obviously we all know what tunneling is now, and the hitter has to make a decision on, am I going to swing at this at a certain point right when the ball is coming to him.
- [66:15]
B
And it's all location. Like, it's all where the ball's at. Yeah, like, where it's released at.
- [66:20]
A
Like, because the, the. The hitter, he knows, like, hey, if you release your fastball different place than your slider, like, it's a dead giveaway what's coming.
- [66:28]
B
And like, what, what I see nowadays is like, you know, I'll see, like, talk or hitters talk about, oh, well, this is my area. Like, what do you mean? It's like, well, this is my area. This is where I want to see the ball. What do you mean, see the ball? Well, this is where I want to see the ball. Like, if the release point and the ball match in the sense of this area, I'm looking at, I'm swinging well.
- [66:51]
A
So what's interesting, too, that's where I.
- [66:53]
B
Can put my best swing.
- [66:54]
A
A lot of hitters and like, the best ones, like, this is all information. They already have.
- [66:59]
B
No, we're not telling secrets.
- [67:01]
A
Yeah, but the, the hitters will say, like, they think, oh, I, I saw spin. It's actually, they saw spin late. So that. Yeah, now after they swung and missed, they're like, oh, that was a slider. So they think, oh, I picked up that it was a slider. No, no, no. You had to make a decision on what you were going to do. And as you were swinging, that's when you realized, oh, it's a slider. It's a slider.
- [67:27]
B
Right.
- [67:27]
A
And that's when they take these swings. And so that is something that I think pitchers oftentimes give hitters so much credit where that hitter. You can tell when a hitter is also, like, not comfortable.
- [67:39]
B
Right.
- [67:40]
A
And so when you as a pitcher see that, what's, like, what's going on.
- [67:43]
B
In your mind, I'm hitting that button. The same pitch.
- [67:47]
A
Yeah.
- [67:47]
B
Throw the same pitch. Throw the same pitch. Throw the same pitch. Don't do anything different. Throw the same pitch. Like, if you. If.
- [67:54]
A
Well, and what's funny, too, is even if you know, the hitter knows that you're gonna throw the same pitch, that's the best. When you know he's sitting slider, and he just swings right through it.
- [68:04]
B
Yeah. I had in that bat. I'm not gonna name a name, but he threw two sliders, and he did not want any part of it. And I was like, I'm gonna throw this one. Really nasty. And I hung it, and he hit a base hit. And I was like, no way. I. That is a. That is when I'm truly upset with myself, because I did that. Like, you know, I wanted to make it nastier. Yep. And I changed things, but it was the same pitch. And I gave him the opportunity to get on base when he should have been and out. Right. And should have, could have, would have, but that's baseball. That's big league's baseball. Like, credit to him. But I was like, there's no reason why you should have sniffed first base. Right. And. But, yeah, those. Those are the. The pitches that I'm like, man, I wish I can have back.
- [68:56]
A
Yeah. If you. I want you to envision Anthony Bonda debut in the big leagues with the Diamondbacks and think of, like, the pitcher that you were, then give me, like, two words to describe that picture. And then give me two words to describe the pitcher you are today.
- [69:17]
B
Two words. Terrified And a thrower.
- [69:23]
A
You got to the big leagues as a thrower.
- [69:27]
B
Yeah, like that standing on the mountain. I was shaking. My legs were shaking, which is kind.
- [69:35]
A
Of normal, by the way.
- [69:36]
B
I know, but what I'm saying is, like, I was shaking, but then I was like, I gotta throw strikes.
- [69:43]
A
What'd you throw to Harper, by the way? Was that a curveball?
- [69:45]
B
Yeah, the curveball.
- [69:46]
A
Which, again, like, your curveball was disgusting back then, too.
- [69:49]
B
Yeah. And there's different laces, different balls.
- [69:53]
A
True.
- [69:55]
B
But. Yeah. And.
- [69:58]
A
Hold on. So terrified and thrower. And thrower.
- [70:02]
B
And then two today, aware and experienced. That's. It doesn't mean I'm not scared or not. I wouldn't say scared, but anxious.
- [70:12]
A
Anxious.
- [70:12]
B
Fight or flight, you know, adrenaline junkie, whatever you want to call it. Like. Yeah, that's still there.
- [70:17]
A
I think people have a misconception about. And this is like. And you know this about me because we have many conversations about, like, what language you're using, but when. When players think about, like, oh, I feel nerves.
- [70:31]
B
Right. Good thing.
- [70:32]
A
That's what's funny is a lot of times guys are like, no, I need to calm myself down so I don't feel it. Like, no, if you don't feel nerves, to me, it's like, do you even care?
- [70:40]
B
Yeah.
- [70:41]
A
You're going out into A game, especially in the big leagues, with all these people there and like, you know, there is meaning to this outing on some level, and you're not feeling those nerves, like something's not right.
- [70:52]
B
Yeah, right.
- [70:53]
A
But everybody, when they describe it, is like, nerves is bad instead of, what if having nerves is the best thing that's ever happened to you?
- [71:02]
B
You know, it's so crazy you brought this up because, like, last year when I was in the playoffs, I remember the first outing, I was like, super overwhelming, or like, nerves, like. And I was like, man, what's going on? And I remember when I. When I was warming up and I was going in Nostalgia Stadium, and I was like, you know what? This is a good thing. It's a good thing, right? I got through the first hitter and I was like, oh, it's the same thing. It's the same game. It's the same thing. Like, it's just because there's. There's a title to it now. There's more people in the stands, there's more light, there's more eyes on you. Right? Sure. That brings pressure, but it's the same game. So if you can get past that, let's do your job. Yeah, same thing. And so when I was walking off, after that outing, I was walking off the field and I was telling myself, like, it's a good thing that you were nervous because it made you realize, like, it's the same thing. You were scared of this big, scary monster. But then when you got through it and you did your job, you realize, oh, I just did my job. I've been doing my job for four months. Five months. Right? Same thing. Like, let's just. All right, now, let's go. That's when I got really excited because, like, there was nothing scary about it. It was just big league baseball game. Yeah.
- [72:24]
A
I'd have two more questions. The first is, you've been through many off seasons as a professional. Take us through what your off season, like, rest is. Like, when do you start picking up a baseball again? When do you start working out? And I want to preface this by saying there are guys who have these 10 year contracts, 5 year contracts, and they have the luxury of being like, hey, I can, like, slow it down and do things different. You're not a guy who has the luxury.
- [72:49]
B
No.
- [72:49]
A
Yeah. You don't have the luxury of, like, comfort of like, yeah, just take it easy.
- [72:52]
B
No.
- [72:52]
A
So walk me through, like, what your off season looks like.
- [72:56]
B
So typically, I'll give myself two weeks.
- [73:00]
A
Two weeks of just, like, really doing Nothing.
- [73:02]
B
Maybe two weeks. Yeah. Maybe a. A couple days. Like. Yeah. Last year I did. Because it was such a long season. We went deeper, and we want it like, you know, So I was like, okay. I really. And they were telling us, like, yeah, you need to take a break.
- [73:17]
A
Normally you're. You're done at the end of September.
- [73:19]
B
Yeah.
- [73:19]
A
Now it's November.
- [73:20]
B
Yeah. They're like, hey, take a break. Do not pay. Like, they would call. They were calling us and telling us that. Yeah. And I was like, okay. So I didn't do anything for two weeks. But typically it. I really just listen to the itch, and I talk about the itch in the sense of sensation of wanting to go do something. Right. Sure. Like, we were. We're on go every day for seven, eight months when. And there's a lot of players, including myself. At some point, you're like, man, I just want a day. Right. And I'm just doing nothing. I want to sit on the couch, do nothing, stare at the wall, like, nothing. And so when you get to the off season and there's the times come where you just don't do anything other, like, as far as activity. Yeah. For me, it's like, it's a couple of days, and I'm like, man, I want to go do something. Right. And then I'll have to tell myself, no, no. And then I start doing random things around the house to keep myself busy. Right. And then it's just. It gets to a point where it's.
- [74:25]
A
Like, okay, when do you go back in the gym?
- [74:27]
B
Well, two weeks. No, typically I give myself probably a week at max to get back in the gym. Yeah. Like, just give myself days to recover, rest, you know, let the ache start creeping in again. And then hit the gym.
- [74:46]
A
Yep.
- [74:47]
B
And so I'm in the gym, and typically it's hour and a half, too, just because, you know, I'm. Total bodies. It's like three. Three workouts a week. Total bodies. And that's it. Right. And then I'll start throwing if this. I'm not talking about. Last option.
- [75:06]
A
Assume a regular off season.
- [75:07]
B
Regular off season. So I'll start picking up a baseball. Probably, like, late November, like, after.
- [75:12]
A
So you ended in September.
- [75:14]
B
Yeah. All of October.
- [75:16]
A
All of October. You're not throwing.
- [75:17]
B
But I'm lifting.
- [75:18]
A
But you're lifting.
- [75:19]
B
I'm not.
- [75:19]
A
In the majority of November, you're taking off. And then at some point after Thanksgiving, whatever it is, you're gonna start playing catch.
- [75:26]
B
Yep. And then. And that's just a reliever. Right? I know I'm not starting. I know I don't have to build up. I don't have to have all this volume behind me before I get to spring training. Like. Right. And so as a reliever, it's more of like, okay, we can push the throwing date a little bit back.
- [75:42]
A
What would you have done had you still been a starter?
- [75:45]
B
I probably would have started throwing the 1st of Sept. November. Right.
- [75:49]
A
So it's an extra couple weeks.
- [75:51]
B
Yeah.
- [75:52]
A
Because you don't need that volume.
- [75:53]
B
Yeah. Right. And a lot more running.
- [75:56]
A
Yeah.
- [75:58]
B
But typically it's just like, you know, give yourself a couple weeks or start working out, get in the gym. I know there's players that don't give themselves any rest days from Jim, a lot of them, and there's some that don't stop throwing, you know, But I found that works for me. What recovers for me the best is give myself a time to strengthen my shoulder again. Because I just, I just went on a. On a tear for eight months. A wear and tear of my body for eight months.
- [76:30]
A
Well, people don't realize too, like, just how the body works. Like, you need to allow your shoulder to, like, reset, essentially scar tissue.
- [76:40]
B
And then basically get in the gym, start stressing those muscles again slowly. You don't have to go in there and start throwing weight around. Like, and you slowly progress from there. And then by the time you're going into spring training, you're basically on a downtrend. Not meaning that, oh, like you're not doing anything. You're just lifting more reps, less weight. Right. And you're basically. It's like almost like doing a banded exercise and stuff like that.
- [77:10]
A
Like, it's more like endurance for the muscles, not.
- [77:13]
B
Yeah, for the muscles and leg and ligaments. Yeah, yeah. You want to stress. You want to stress the muscles, you want to stress the ligaments in some capacity to be able to take on the throwing aspect. Because when you get a spring training, you're going to feel really good. Huh. And the first day you're gonna feel really good. And from there it's downhill. Like, it doesn't. You don't ever feel that great ever again throughout the season. But as, but my goal is in spring training is to stress the body as much as I can with baseball activity. That way I can layer it on, on top of my workouts and then start building that stress factor again. That way I can have it throughout the season and kind of bounce back and recover very. Yeah. Very quickly. Right. As a reliever, you got to be Available. Right. And that's kind of what I pride myself on is being available and being useful in the sense of, like, you know, productive. So that's kind of how the, you know, the off season kind of plays out. It's helpful, but there's, you know, and I. And.
- [78:17]
A
And, you know, you had to learn that, too. It's not like, yeah, first year in Pro bowl, you're like, this is what I'm going to do, and I'm going to stick with it the rest of my career.
- [78:23]
B
Yeah. The first. First year of Pro Bowl, I remember I was in the gym twice a day, and what I would do is it was me, my cousins and brothers, bunch of meatheads at the time, and all we wanted to do was lift weights. And so all I did was lift weights. We'd lift weights in the morning, go to Whataburger, eat, go take a nap, go back to the gym at night, lift the same exact way we lifted in the morning.
- [78:48]
A
That's crazy.
- [78:49]
B
Yeah, I know. And then do whatever. Play video games, you know, whatever.
- [78:54]
A
Whatever kids do back.
- [78:56]
B
Yeah. Yeah. And then do it again. Yep. Do it again, do it again. Do it again. Do it again. Yep. And then the throwing started happening where I would fit. My throwing is like, I would eat, go throw, go take a nap, go lift, go be a kid. Yeah. And then do it again. And it's just like, that's. That was my first off season and.
- [79:18]
A
As many moons ago.
- [79:19]
B
Yeah.
- [79:20]
A
All right, last question. What would you say to me? I think a lot of times, families think. I know. You tell me often the business, it's not personal, but it's still personal, you know, because it's my son. If it's a dad or a mom, and if it's a kid, well, it's. Of course it's personal, because it's me. Talk to me a little bit about how you've recognized it's a business.
- [79:46]
B
Right.
- [79:46]
A
And as much as this is your career, and obviously it matters, and it is personal to you, it's not personal to the team.
- [79:54]
B
Yeah, absolutely. And it's so funny that you brought. I love that you brought this up, honestly, and. Because I used to always take it personal. Right. And when you would always tell me, it's just a business, dude, like, that's. It's not. It's not personal. It's just a business. And I'm like, dude, f them that are like, you know. But the way I learned how a business is ran is going through that. Right. And going through. And I understood like, you know, my brothers call me and they're talking about how it is within their business and, you know, what their jobs consist of and how they're being treated. And like, dude, it's not personal. That's how they're doing their business. Right. Sometimes you're on the, the end of the stick. Like, that's just how it is. Yeah. And nobody wants to be on that side, but people are. And they're not looking at the best interest for you. They're looking at the best interest and what it is for them as far as the business. And so when you look at it, it's sure. As much as it hurts, because it's your, your pride is hurt, you know, your confidence and shot, you know, you feel small. That cannot be something that you can take with you. Right? And I used to do it a lot. Right. I used to do it a lot. And when I started noticing it and I was like. And I started noticing, like, how they would communicate with me afterwards, still wondering if I'm doing well when I see them again, this and that, Right. I was just, I started realizing, like, oh, it is a business. This is how it's ran. And then you look. And then I started looking on the outside world. It's like, that's exactly how businesses are run on the outside world as well. So I learned a valuable lesson. If you're going to get into business and then, like, you, you're, you know, this is what you're doing, like, you gotta understand the dark side of the business, too. And that is the dark side of the business. But it's nothing personal.
- [81:54]
A
That's right.
- [81:55]
B
And when people can accept that and understand that and see it, and some people might need to see, like, okay, well, what's the trickle effect like, of the business? If I, you know, leave, like, and you see it firsthand and like, oh, I get it. You're just trying to improve your team. Whether it's your, your, you know, baseball team, football team, you know, whatever, you're trying to improve that. Right?
- [82:19]
A
Well, I think players early on in their career look at a major league organization and say, man, these guys are really smart. These guys have all the resources to know all of these data points. And if they're doing something for this reason, the byproduct of that is like, okay, you're going to go sign him instead of me. You think I suck? No, it's like. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. All they're doing is they are taking an educated guess. Yes, it's all educated guesses. There's. They're not robots. They've made plenty of mistakes. This is how you have guys who, hey, look, you're a 10th rounder and look what you've done. Albert Pulse was a 13th rounder. Look what he did, right. Mike Trout wasn't the first overall pick. So it's like, naturally people make mistakes. They don't all get it right. And so I think the context matters because as a player, if you can understand, oh, this is happening for these reasons. This isn't a reflection on me. This says nothing about how my career is going to go now. Does it change the circumstances by which if they're going to option me down, obviously I do have to go down to Triple A. I have to, like, fight through this. I've got to continue to throw well. But the great equalizer, and I always tell this to guys, I've said this to you before. It's like your performance is going to be the great equalizer for you.
- [83:31]
B
Yeah.
- [83:31]
A
If you think that you can hang your hat on this sucks. I'm getting screwed. So I'm just going to spend time and just stew on that. If that's getting you better, then do it all you want.
- [83:43]
B
Yeah.
- [83:43]
A
But if it's not, you better recognize it now, shut it off and go perform.
- [83:47]
B
Yeah. And it's hard to, you know, and I'm on. I was on both ends of that, right? And it's very hard to shut that down. Right? And I still fight to it this day. Like, but when I see guys, you know, get optioned, right? Or, you know, and, or, you know, I'm in Triple A and I hear guys, you know, complaining and bitching. And my favorite thing is like, well, pitch better, right? Yeah. Hit better, play better, right?
- [84:14]
A
That's the worst thing.
- [84:15]
B
I know.
- [84:16]
A
I know.
- [84:16]
B
But I say it because, like, I'm there too, right? Like, I feel the same way. And so is everybody in this room, right? But the reality is, if you're pitching better, you're going to get the opportunity. If you're pitching better or playing better or hitting, bet, whatever it is, you're gonna stay, right? And so, like, I remember having this conversation with Anthony Ghost or Goose. Goose. Great dude, phenomenal athlete, Unbelievable stuff. And he was just like, man, like, you know, I need it. He's worried about his numbers, right? I'm like, dude, just keep going and keep going. Like, you. You have. You literally have nothing else that you can possibly do except to keep going, right? You can bitch and moan all you Want. You can complain to the world all you want. It's not going to change the circumstances unless you just drop your stuff and go home, right? And you start something else. But if you want to do this and you want to keep doing this, you just have to keep going. You have to keep going. And he in a credit to him, like, he's, he's had an amazing career, you know, and, and everything. And he went from an outfitter to a pitcher, like, made it both. Both. Both times. Yeah. Had success, everything. So. But I always, like when, when guys, I hear guys, you know, complaining, it's like, dude, like, you can complain all you want and sure, people are going to get tired of hearing it. People are going to get, you know, say things to you that are truthful and they're going to hurt. But at the same time, like, all you can really do at the end of all that is keep going. If you really want to keep doing this, you keep going. Because the only thing that's going to change something is if you keep going. Yeah, you're going to give yourself the opportunity to change something. You're going to give yourself the opportunity to learn something, to change something, and you keep going. Just keep going.
- [86:18]
A
I always tell guys all the time, and not that these are like the only two explanations, but when they're so convinced that they're right about how they're looking at something, right, I go, do you want to be right or do you want to be rich? Yeah, because you can keep complaining about, this is the worst thing that's ever happened. This is going to be the end of my career. And you believe that you're going to be right and it'll be the end of your career. But if you want to be rich, which again, I'm not guaranteeing that you're going to be rich, but if you want to be rich, get over it, move past.
- [86:44]
B
Or if you just want to get to where you want to be. Yeah, you're gonna have to get through it. Like, not. It's so funny that there's a conception or misconception of like, somebody like, giving everything to you on a separate planet. Right? And every, every, you know, and that comes from parenting. That comes from, you know, coaching as far as, like, this kid is the best kid on our team. He's gonna, you know, we're gonna take care of him, blah, blah, that comes from all that. But when you're in a, a pond or a big ocean full of the same talent, or even better, you got to know how to get through the complaining, right? Because everybody complains. Everybody complains, everybody, everybody moans everything, everybody wants everything to be perfect and it's not going to go that way, right. The best thing you can teach yourself is to keep going, right? And if you keep going, I promise you though, the opportunity is going to come and you're going to be prepared for it, right? And if you're not, it's going to tell you, it's going to show you and you're going to be right back where you're at. And what are you going to have to keep doing? You're going to have to keep going, right? So that's what I've learned from my career and that's what I live by on my career, in my life. It's like, no matter what it looks like, if I keep going, like I'm going to get somewhere, right? And no matter how much it hurts, no matter how many sleepless nights you have, no matter how many, you know, arguments you go through, whatever, how many, how many walls you punch, you left that out going like, yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm good with, I don't care. You just keep going. You have to keep going. Like, life is full of that, right? And so like, you really look at it, it's like, okay, these guys that have this silver platter that's been put out in front of them and the minute they fail, they panic. They have no idea how to get out of it. Yes.
- [88:37]
A
They've never struggled.
- [88:38]
B
They never struggled. And so at that point, it's like, what do you do now? Keep going. Yeah.
- [88:45]
A
I always tell people, like, I know this is not easy.
- [88:49]
B
It's not.
- [88:50]
A
When you go through struggle, it's not easy. When you go through struggle, when you're living your dream. And up until that point, all the things you've ever wanted have happened, right? Like, you know, you're a high school player and you're a, a perfect game, all American. You're a first round pick, you're having success in the minor leagues, you get to the big leagues and you fail.
- [89:06]
B
Yeah.
- [89:06]
A
At that point you're like, wait, what? Yeah, that's, that's not how this is supposed to go for me. And so naturally, that player who's had so much success, unbeknownst to them, even they're looking around like, oh, something else must be the matter for this happening so oftentimes. It's easy to look at the team and be like, why the team do that? Or again, if you're a pitcher, it's the catcher's fault or. Yeah. The circumstances aren't perfect for me to do what I should be able to do.
- [89:31]
B
And my favorite thing about that would be like. Like to tell somebody this and. And I've told multiple guys, multiple teammates and stuff. I just. You know, I'm not gonna name names, but I just told this person, one of my teammates, this, and I go, dude, what you're going through right now, you've never struggled, or I wouldn't say struggled up to this magnitude, but at the same time, it's like it's preparing you for something greater. Yeah. So all you can do is trust the process and keep going. Yeah. Go through this, accept it, enjoy it. It's hard. It sucks, but enjoy it. Right. But keep going. Yeah. Because it's going to matter, and you're going to look back at it and say, I'm so happy I went through that. I'm so happy I went through it, because look at what I achieved now.
- [90:18]
A
And that is your story, bro.
- [90:19]
B
Yeah.
- [90:20]
A
We're going to end there.
- [90:22]
B
Thank you for having me.