← Most Valuable Agent with Matt Hannaford
Most Valuable Agent with Matt Hannaford
Stop Paying for Exposure — Your 11-Year-Old Doesn't Need It
00:49:11
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- [00:13]
A
All right, guys, welcome back to another episode of the Most Valuable Agent Podcast. This episode is going to be a Q and episode with my producer, Mike. If you have not heard this podcast before, I am a veteran agent of 26 years representing major League baseball players or some clients that I have behind me on the wal. But this podcast is really devoted to wanting to make your travel baseball experience better. So the reason why we're doing these Q and A episodes is not only have we gotten a bunch of good feedback, but parents continue to send us various questions related to their own experiences. And, you know, they're. They're trying to solve some, what I would say some pretty complex situations in travel baseball. So I would imagine not only is it going to help the individual asking, it's probably going to make a huge impact or potentially make a huge impact on everybody listening as well. So we wanted to bring you guys these questions. Mike. So let's jump into it, buddy. What do we have for today?
- [01:09]
B
Yeah, and as you know, Matt, travel baseball is such a hop topic all across the sport, and it's something that we see a lot of your comments on. By the way, thank you all for leaving comments for us, for engaging in the video. We do read every single comment that is put on one of Matt's videos. So if you want us to read one of your questions, if you want us to, if you want us to leave a comment to let us know how we're doing or something you want us to be talking about, please let us know. We do read them and we do bring them on the show. So with that being said, let's get into it. Travel baseball. Matt, first question we have today is from Steve. Steve writes, hey, Matt, we just paid $3,200 for summer travel baseball. This includes for hotels, gas, tournament fees, and on top of that, we're probably looking at spending another $7,000 later this year. My son's 11 years old, and listen, nobody's probably even scouting 11 year olds. So how much should I be spending on travel ball? And are we actually getting real player development for that money? Are we just paying for exposure? That doesn't really matter.
- [02:17]
A
Oh, great question. I feel like I can go in so many different directions. So the first thing that I want to make sure that you guys all understand, and I've said this a thousand times on this podcast, context matters, right? So the age of your son is going to have an impact on what I believe to be kind of the. The. The course that you should essentially take to get to where you Want to go. But just generally speaking, the first thing is you asked some questions that are specific, but also they're relatively broad as well. So, you know, we're paying this amount of money. I'm not sure if we're, we should be paying this amount of money. Here's the reality, and I've said it before, so a lot of families, when they kind of get into this travel base, everybody knows and has heard of exposure, right? Oh, we have to go be seen by people. You asked the question. Or, or maybe it was just a comment. I don't believe that an 11 year old is, is scouted. And you're right, the only people that are scouting 11 year olds are probably other travel baseball programs. But no college coaches are scouting 11 year olds. No pros scouts are scouting 11 year olds. So don't play travel baseball to be scouted at that age. Now, if you want to do that at 17, that's a different story. But not at 11, not at 12 and not at 13. You know, one of the things that a lot of the younger people think about is, well, we want to go play for Team usa. And now that's a little bit of a different story, which we can address in a future episode. But as it relates to your question about spending all this money, the first thing that I want you to think about is I want you to ask yourself, what is our as a family kind of hierarchy of focus, right? And there's three things that most families say is on this hierarchy of focus, okay? The first thing for them usually is exposure. We have to go to events to be seen so that we can then capitalize from spending the money and doing the thing. Okay? The second component, and I would even, I'd probably say it's almost on the same level as the exposure is the competition, right? Going to all these tournaments. We've got to go to all these tournaments and most of the time it's to be seen, but we got to go to all these tournaments because everybody else is. And then the third piece of this is development. And the, the interesting thing is development usually kind of just like floats in the abyss. Like they know it's important, but they don't really know how important it is. And here's what I would encourage you to think about. Instead of exposure, competition and development, instead of that order, right? Flip it upside down. Development needs to be the most important piece. So start with that question. What do we as a family need to do in order to develop? Okay, then what happens? And that, funny enough, is at the top kind of all by itself. Then at that point, when you focus on the development, when you go to whether it's a training facility, whether he gets lessons, whether he gets whatever it is, whether he goes to practice, developing is the most important piece and a natural byproduct of developing as well. Why don't we test out the development? Right. It's, it's. I would relate it to, like, golf. If all you do is go to the driving range and you never play a round of golf, I don't care how well you hit it at the driving range, you need to go test it and figure out, well, how am I on the golf course? Because what you'll realize and what you'll learn. And pros say this all the time in golf. You know, when you, when you go to the range and you're, like, working on your game, when you go to the golf course, you kind of want to throw everything out the window. Now it's just, I got to go play golf. I just got to, like, go hit balls in different, you know, you're going to naturally face with different shots. You're going to. Balls are going to be in, you know, the fairway, the sand trap, the rough, whatever it is. You're going to have to, like, figure out how that feels. That's essentially like you as a. As a player playing in a game. Right. And so, again, development is, number one, competition is a natural byproduct of wanting to test the development. And then the third component to this is exposure. Now, here's the thing about exposure. And again, where the age matters, there's really no exposure that's necessary at 11 years old. There's no exposure that's even necessary at 12, 13, 14, even 15. Exposure becomes necessary when you start to introduce the idea of wanting to go play college baseball. When you want to go play college baseball, well, then naturally you're going to have to be seen in front of these college coaches. But that doesn't even happen until August 1st of your junior year. That's the very first time these college coaches can even reach out to you. So. And that is at 17 years old. Right. So that gives you an idea of, wait a minute. Where should we be placing our attention? Where should we be using our resources? Yes. What I'm telling you is development needs to be the most important piece. And again, think of it like the driving range. I'm not saying go develop in a cage by yourself for five years. It's not what I'm saying. But go work hard, work on your craft and then very strategically start to utilize some of these events, these tournaments, I wouldn't necessarily say these showcases, but go utilize the tournaments to go test out how he's performing. And the reality of it is a lot of times the regional tournament, the one that's cheaper, the one that's close by, you don't have to go stay in a hotel. All those can be used for that testing of the competition. Right, the testing of the development, rather like that's where you can do that stuff. And then if he goes to those tournaments and he's performing extremely well, well then naturally it's like, well, I want to test how he, you know, his skill set against the better players. Okay, so then maybe you start to go nationally all to say you can do that in a lot of different ways. At 11 years old, I think sometimes what happens is parents think, oh, we've got to hurry up and like do all this in one year. No. And the risk of doing it all in one year is the financial burnout, the emotional burnout. And then above and beyond all of that, it's not sustainable. Right. From a health standpoint, even. So that would be my advice is really just to kind of like think about what your, your focus is and if it is the exposure you really need to think about. Well, okay, yeah, you know, should I be placing more of an emphasis, an emphasis rather on the development piece and then what could that look like? That leads to a whole host of other things that you want to consider. But that's where I would start.
- [08:50]
B
And the other thing that, that comes up, Matt, which, which by the way, you were talking about money and I know money's a big topic with travel ball, like a lot of parents worry about, you know, everything's going up at the time of film. We have inflation, we have. Costs are rising across the board, People are losing their jobs in certain industries. You know, there's a, there's a lot of fear. What used to look like an investment into your kid, I'm assuming now Matt looks more like a, oh my God, this is another $10,000 a year expense. We are to give my 11 year old exposure. From the financial standpoint, there's a lot of talk online about how much is too much for travel, baseball, how much is it? Should families be stretching themselves financially to get their kid exposure? What do you feel like financially is the responsible thing to do when it comes to this travel, baseball investment? And if you can't answer that, what are some things that parents or families should be Looking at when it comes to looking for a travel baseball club, when it comes to the financial side.
- [09:58]
A
Yeah. So from the financial piece, I think, again, you could try to tackle that question in a lot of different ways if you're a parent, you know, trying to analyze what's too much. And I mean, on some level, it's subjective, right? It depends on this, the circumstances of the family. To one family, spending a thousand dollars a month is insane, and to another, it's not enough. Right. So what I would, I guess, think about and understand is the age of your son is going to be the biggest deciding factor on what you should and should not have to do if your son is the best player in the country at 10. Okay? So going to all these events to maintain that level of attention, what good is that if at 13 or 14, everybody catches up and it doesn't really matter that you went to all those events at 10, right. I guess here's an important piece to all of this, and I'm going to make some assumptions in this answer. So let me, I guess, articulate all this kind of together in one lump sum. A lot of times what these families are really, really focused on and worried about is we want to make sure that our son has the opportunity, given what his skill set is, to capitalize on it. So if my son has the capability of being a player who can get a college scholarship, we want to make sure that he has that chance. And so what events do we need to go to for him to have that chance? Here's what I want to say to you, okay? All of these colleges and all of these scouts, their whole world revolves around needing to find players that are good, right? They don't just go to five events. They go to a whole host of events. Above and beyond that, when your son is somebody with that capability, there's also college camps that he can go to and attend. Right. That are pretty affordable, right. Local events. You don't need to do these national things all the time to try to chase a lot of that attention. If your son is good enough, they will come find you. Now, with all that being said, I do believe on some level, if you feel like, well, but we haven't really done anything yet, and my son is really good and people tell us how good he is and, like, nobody's calling. Okay, well, then at that point, if now he's, let's just say, 16 years old, sure. There's various events that you can go to with these travel ball clubs, and I'll just give you A handful of them right now. Right? The WWBA in Atlanta with perfect game is a really good event. There's a ton of colleges and a ton of scouts that go to that event every single year. Now, obviously, there's different age groups. You don't necessarily have to be the one that goes there at 10 years old thinking that, oh, we need to go at 10, because it's 16, 17, we want these colleges to know about. I'm like, that's too early. These colleges, even if he's the best player at 10 or 11 at 16, 17. Well, who is he now? Right? They're. They're not just going to love him at 10 and then love him at 16, 17 because they loved him at 10. Like, that's not how it works. So WWBA is one of them. There's. There's also a bunch of, like, you know, again, I mentioned the USA baseball thing. That's something that comes into play when your son gets to a certain level. More than likely it's because you know people are going to find out about him. Not necessarily because you've chosen to go to an event, but because he's actually one of the better players and word of mouth spreads and gets to usa. Now, usa, if they've heard about you, they will invite you to certain events that you do need to attend if you want to play on USA. But you don't need to, like, go to 15 events in order to be seen by USA so that you then get selected to then go to the USA event to then try out. Like, that's not a thing. Obviously, there's the Perfect Game event in Jupiter and there's various other events throughout the summer. But regardless, you don't have to just be the parent that says, we have to go out there and spend tens of thousands of dollars every single summer to keep up with this craziness. You don't need to do that. A lot of this can be tackled through the development piece and through the local events. Okay? So I want to make that clear. There are a lot of these tournament organizers that do a very, very good job. I think a lot of times parents are really quick to criticize a lot of these tournament organizers and saying, oh, it's a money grab. And are there money grabs? Yes, there are money grabs out there. There absolutely is. But they're only money grabs because parents aren't asking the right questions. And they're being, I don't want to say lied to as much as kind of, like, manipulated into, like, oh, this is an event you have to go to. You have to think about this logically. If someone says this is an event you have to go to and you're not yet 16 years old, it's not an event you have to go to maybe for that travel ball program, it's an event you have to go to because they want to win the tournament. But then at least, you know, as a parent, I'm choosing to go because I want to win the tournament, not because I'm actually helping my son be seen or helping my son go to the right stuff. Get clear on why you're choosing to go to the event. So that I think generally is a good way to look at it. The problem with me telling you, Mike, the appropriate amount of money is this is, everybody's situation is different. Like, I'm not going to tell somebody who can't spend a hundred dollars that they should spend a thousand. Like, no, I mean, you don't, you don't need to do that. If, if you are somebody who resources are tight and you believe that your son is very good. And I mean so good that like, this kid is going to get a college scholarship. I know it because everybody's telling me he's the best kid in the city. You don't need to go to anything. And he will get his college scholarship. I'm not kidding you. I've seen it happen before. Right. Plenty of kids have come out of Wyoming as the best kids and have been first round picks. Brandon Nimmo was a first round pick from Wyoming and didn't really go to anything. I think he went to like one or two events his senior year in high school and that was it. And this guy went in the first round, I want to say in. I can't remember the year, but yeah. So I think don't. As a parent, the, the, the most responsible thing you can do is take it slow, ask questions. And as long as you're keeping the development piece kind of as the guiding principle, I, I'm going to trust that you're going to make some really, really good decisions. It's really when the exposure piece becomes like this infatuation that parents start to be led to doing some crazy stuff. So I, I hope that helps. I know I was kind of all over the spectrum on that answer, but.
- [16:28]
B
No, it made, it made sense, Matt, because, you know, and I want to make sure that the parents out there understand that, you know, there's, there's a, there's a line that I think you got to kind of tow A little bit where it's like, you know, being, making sure that you're being financially responsible across the board in, in all things. But at the same time, when it comes to travel, baseball, you know, it's just kind of looking your scale of budget, right? It's like, you know, $1,000 to some family. Yeah, $1,000 to some families is not a whole lot to some other ones.
- [16:59]
A
Well, and I'll say this too, I think as I've read a lot of the comments on the channel, I, I've, I've noticed the theme and a lot of times and we saw this a lot when we were talking about, you know, I, I did an episode recently where I talked about, you don't need to play year round baseball. And I think we're going to talk about that a little bit more today. But what I noticed is there is this desire for parents to treat this experience of travel baseball as like there's only one way to do it. And so if I'm saying you should play multiple sports or your son should play multiple sports, everybody's like, yeah, but my son, he only wants to play baseball. Okay, then don't make him play another sport. I'm merely saying if you're somebody who thinks that you want your son to play multiple sports, but you're being driven by this, like this, this voice in the industry saying, yeah, but you shouldn't do that, you're going to miss out. I'm here to tell you, you're not going to miss out. In fact, a lot of other people in the industry talk about the added benefit from playing multiple sports. Now I've also had families come on and say, yeah, but what about injuries? Well, yeah, there's obviously an added injury risk if you play multiple sports, but just analyze everything with eyes open. I just don't want families to be manipulated. I don't want families to, that they're, they, they can't play multiple sports. And the kid is 13 years old and he really would love to play basketball or football or soccer, but is like, oh, I can't because, you know, so and so is telling me I'm going to miss out and I'm going to miss my opportunity to get a college scholarship at 13. And so again, all to say, there isn't only one right way to do all of this stuff. I'm merely trying to give you guys guidance and insight, you know, through my experience to just ask the right questions so that you as a family can really experience. All right, what is my gut telling Me, given all this information, how then to kind of handle this and look like I will even tell you, Representing baseball players as I've done over the last 26 years, it's a lot of the same stuff. I'm not going in this and saying you have to do this. No, it's, what do you want to accomplish? What is your goal for your career? Okay, that player then articulates my goal. Okay, so if this is your goal, then what I'm here to tell you is this then becomes the pathway to achieve that goal. If you are unwilling to do this, it's either because maybe that's not your goal, or you're not as committed as you've told me you're, you know, you are through this experience. And so the same applies to, as you go through it now with a kid who's 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, and travel baseball. Right. It's. What are we trying to achieve? Family. Okay. If this is what we're trying to achieve, well, then what is the strategy to then help make this happen? That's like. That is a great starting point for every family through this process. Don't watch a YouTube video, don't listen to a podcast, don't read a book where somebody had experience and had success doing it one way and think that. That that is the only way to do it. It's not the only way to do it. Their son, if it was a father writing the book, their son had a different experience. And to them, this worked. To you guys, it could be something different. The reason why, Mike, I think that is so important is because a lot of times families sell out. This person told me to do this, so we're going to do it. We're going 100% in. And if it doesn't work out quite like they hoped, all that's left is a bunch of resentment saying, oh, you steered me the wrong way. Well, it's like, well, no, it was a. This guy's experience was with a particular player with certain skill sets and resources that is vastly different than yours. So why would you think that that was the right pathway? Because he told you like that. So I am not here telling you there's only one right way. I'm merely saying you, the parent, actually have kind of like the map. I just need to remind you of it. But it's there. It's. It's literally right here. And right here. You have everything inside you to know what to do. I just want to have you ask the right questions of yourself so that you can uncover what that is.
- [21:09]
B
I love that man. I think that was such a good answer. So hopefully we have answered your question in detail, which is always the best. All right, Matt, next question is from Rick and Rick writes. Matt, I recently saw an episode where you talked about sports specialization at 10 years old. My son's travel baseball coach is already telling us that he needs to drop soccer and focus on baseball year round. My son is also 10 years old. When does early specialization in youth baseball actually make sense? And when is playing multiple sports still better for player development?
- [21:50]
A
Yeah, so again, like kind of a great segue, I guess. Didn't know we were going right into that, but here's again, I kind of just talked a little bit about it just now. There isn't a perfect time. Right. Some of this, what you're trying to gauge is let's actually, let's start with this hypothetical. Right. So this gentleman, what was the person's name? Mike?
- [22:13]
B
Rick. It was Rick. Yeah, Rick. Rick. Yeah, and Rick. And just to give you a little bit more in here, Matt, Rick is talking, you know that episode that we did, the last Q and A where you were just talking about Michael Garcia para and like how soccer helped him and you know, there was a couple comments on YouTube where they, where people were citing Kobe and his soccer background really led to him being an all time great. So I'm assuming that in this one, you know, Rick is really looking for like, do we need to pull our, do our, do we need to pull our kid out of like playing, you know, soccer, football, maybe track? None of the sports are listed and go all in on baseball or is, you know, is, is this like 10 year old thing? Is it, is it too much that we're asking of our kids to go play one sport year round and, and make it to the pros?
- [23:02]
A
Yeah. So let me answer it by. I, I'll use my own personal experience. And this is years ago. I'm 45 now, so this was, you know, quite a while ago. This is in the 90s just to put that in perspective. But so I grew up playing ice hockey, baseball, basketball and football. Right. I actually didn't start playing football until I was a freshman in high school and I only played for one year. My parents, funny enough, they didn' to play football. They didn't like the risk, I would almost argue. I mean hockey was probably more physical or just as physical as, as football. But all to say, I understand if a parent has reservations about the safety in football, if that's a concern for any Families. But in my experience, what I ended up doing is. So I played basketball all as a kid, and then I ended up. The last year I played was in eighth grade. I played hockey up until high school. I played baseball and football in high school, and then after my freshman year, I stopped playing football, and then I just focused on baseball. Now, for me, why did I focus on baseball? Because I loved playing all the other sports. But I got to a place where I only. I knew, okay, this is what my training is going to have to look like. I'm going to have to make a decision if I'm committed to this, that I want to be able to devote all of my energy that I have into getting good grades, but also into baseball. And so I decided that I was going to give up football and any other sport after my freshman year in high school. Okay? For others, that may have been different. If, you know, I. Again, because I only play football one year. If I was this great football player, maybe I would have continued to play football all throughout high school. And it could have been because maybe I'm like, look, I love baseball. I love football. I'm good at both. I don't know which one I'm better at yet. So I want to kind of let it play itself out a little bit more, and then I'll let the chips fall where they may. One is eventually going to be better than the other, and I'll make a decision later. Right? So there are some people that I know that decide that path. All of this, the whole point I'm trying to make, is your son's specific situation. There's not, like only a one right time to do it. It's all you're going to learn a ton by actually communicating with your son and asking him the questions, what do you love playing the most? Do you see yourself going to college as an example? Let's just say that I was somebody who actually played football and baseball all four years of high school. If I asked that type of player, who's going to play all four years, do you have ambitions of playing college football? And if the answer to that is no, do you have ambitions to play college baseball? And the answer to that is yes. It's like, oh, okay, so you're playing football in high school because you want to play with your buddies, I assume because you enjoy it. Maybe it's the training. Maybe it's because you guys are really good and you want to win a state title. Whatever it is, be clear on what that is and what I would tell you is at some point you're going to be led to stop playing that other sport. And it could be because I actually have a bright future in baseball and the injury risk in football, it's just too great. I don't want to risk it. Right. Let's say you're now a draft prospect going into your senior year in high school in baseball, but you're not in football. And so maybe at that point you're like, you know what, I've really loved football, but I just don't want to run the risk. I could be drafted, you know, at the end of the season here and I would hate if, you know something freak, some freak accident happens and now it affects my, you know, my chances of going to college and play baseball. And so I would just encourage families like be open minded and just talk to your son, ask him what he wants. I got a question on the comments, Mike, and I'm sure you saw it where a parent said, you know, Barry Bonds only played one sport. Albert Pujols, funny enough, who represented only played one sport, you know, I guess Shohei Otani only played one sport. And this person was naming all of this and I think what their point was, so everybody should only play one sport. And my argument to that is, I mean I, I totally disagree. But regardless, that's not the point. The point is not let's fight, let's cherry pick the best players in the world and ooh, they only played one sport. Because I would make the argument like, I doubt they did. I'm sure they played something else at some point in their life. It doesn't mean they actually played in high school, but at some point they played other, other sports. But regardless, that doesn't matter. What I'm saying is your kid also needs to enjoy his childhood. So if he wants to do these other things, let him do it. Unless you're just afraid of him getting hurt, the cost of it is too high, or he doesn't want to do it right. Let those be the reasons why he stops playing. Not oh, because the industry tells me that if we don't stop playing at 13 that he's going to jeopardize his future. Because the only people that are saying that are the people that are going to benefit by him only playing baseball. So
- [28:07]
B
yeah, you know, this is a difficult one too because like, yeah, you have the Shohei Ohtani who only played baseball and that's all they played. And Shohei arguably is one of the greats of the game right now. And then you have you know, someone like Kobe who played soccer and you know, we. That was a comment that came directly from a viewer who said, well, his soccer background led to Kobe's greatness. But I think when it still comes down to kids, man, I'd love to have you kind of expand on this a little bit more is even if we as families and parents and you know, are doing everything possible for our kids, the reality is we're still dealing with kids. And I think like, what is in your opinion, the impact that all this switching back and forth, like, is it. Does it do damage to them if you're just like, look, you're going to go play baseball for year round for two years and then come back and play soccer and football. Football. I feel like that's just going to really impact the kids interest in wanting to play sports overall.
- [29:07]
A
Yeah, hold on. You're saying that if a player, he plays multiple sport, you kind of said,
- [29:14]
B
I'm talking about, like, it's got to be. There's, I'm, I'm feeling like there's got to be some sort of instability that happens if you keep, like if you force a kid to just play one sport and one sport only without getting his input or perspective or you're.
- [29:28]
A
Yeah, yeah. I mean, the risk, the risk, and I mentioned this in, I think the last podcast that just aired was the, you know, the study that was done by the Aspen Institute where they talked about just the burnout in kids and how so many kids, when they get to 13 years old, they're just overplaying. And a lot of it, it comes because, yeah, you're, you're having a kid play year round and you're. What, what's ultimately happening, like if I could just paint broad strokes over this thing, is you're essentially like professionalizing something that's meant to be a game all throughout their childhood. Right. You're making something so serious that, yeah, they don't want to play anymore. It's not any fun. And so what happens when a family devotes themselves to playing year round? It's okay if the kid wants to do it. Assuming that you're also being mindful of his health. Because the other thing that I mentioned recently is, you know, I have a client who was a tr. Is still a travel baseball coach and he had a parent who I don't want to blame the parent for like forcing the kid to throw year round because I think the kid actually wanted to throw year round but never gave him a break and got so consumed with going to These various tournaments. And then ultimately the byproduct of all of that is the kid now tears his ligament at some crazy young age. And guess what? The doctor tells him, you shouldn't have surgery. And I'll even go so far as to tell you you should put a baseball down for like six years if you ever play again. Like, this is not good for you. And so the thing that I think everybody needs to be mindful of, like people hear about, oh, Tommy John surgery, oh, if my son blows out his arm, like he'll just have surgery. People don't even realize, guys, when. And I'll. So in. In early 2000s, when people got Tommy John, the whole thought was that that Tommy John procedure was probably going to last around like 10 years, right? So if you got Tommy John in 2000, by about 2010, in the best case, like that ligament's probably going to be a little spotty, right? Maybe there's going to be some stuff that happened and that's not a guarantee. It's not 100% of the time. But like if you got to 10 years, like that was a pretty decent timeframe. Nowadays it's much quicker. There are way more guys that are having Tommy John. And yes, the surgery itself has gotten better, but there's still so much. And I think it comes down to like how much these players are throwing that the ligament has so much damage before then. And so when you get these kids at 10, 11, 12, 13 years old who like blow out their arm and have need to have UCL reconstruction, guess what? Like, you want this kid to play college baseball. This kid's already had surgery at 13. Like, what, how's this going to look when the kid's 20, you know what I mean? And so that's where I think there's, there's this mindset right now where parents, and I don't want to blame parents because I don't, I don't think it's 100% the parents fault. I think a lot of times it's just who's guiding them, what information are they being given. I just think there's a responsibility that falls on the parents. And in this one instance, you know, my client, who is the travel ball coach, this parent, when my, when my client essentially told the parent, hey, look, like you're not. I'm not going to let him come play in this tournament because he needs to stop playing baseball. He needs to rest his arm. This is not okay. That parent took their son and they played for another travel ball team at A different tournament. And then that's when this guy ended up finding out that, yeah, there was damage done to this player's arm. And so all to say, like, that is reckless and that's not a good thing. And so I don't know how a parent can't see that that is actually doing more harm than good. So that is one of the risks of playing year round now. Doesn't mean that that's a guarantee that that's going to happen and that there's no smart way to play year round. If you only want to play baseball, there's a good way to do it. But think about it. There's a reason why college, they take time off. There's a reason why in the pros, they take time off. These guys are taking months off after a season to rest. They're not, you know, and there are some pitchers that will, like, continue to play light catch, nice and easy. They're not throwing bullpens year round. Right. They're not throwing, playing long toss year round. And if they are, like, there's a shelf life to that. And so you just, again, information is so valuable. You just have to get the right information, ask the right questions. And not to plug the podcast, but that's a little bit about what this podcast is about, is just trying to, I'm just, I'm tired of, of hearing so many families be lied to and taken advantage of. And that's where I would encourage, like, I, even if it was me, don't just do what I say. I'm trying to incite you to ask the right questions so that you can figure out what the right thing to do is with the information. So.
- [34:11]
B
Yeah, and, and Matt, I don't think I, I think you, you said it with a lot of heart and passion around, you know, this, this issue that's going in. And as the show continues to grow and evolve and all of you get involved, we can really solve a lot of challenges in the industry right now with that. And speaking of parents, this last question we have is actually kind of ironic. This question comes from Sean, and Sean writes, hey, Matt, everyone always wants to blame the baseball parents. And listen, I get it. A lot of us are out of control at these games. But my son's travel baseball coach has him batting ninth for three straight tournaments after he made one error at shortstop. My kid's hitting.380. When is it okay for a parent to talk to a youth baseball coach about playing time? And how do you do it without your kid paying the price?
- [35:02]
A
So I guess my question is more about his question. He's batting ninth, he's hitting.300. He. So it sounds like maybe the coach moved him down in the order because
- [35:13]
B
he made an error at shortstop, right?
- [35:15]
A
Which doesn't even make sense because you're not moving a player down in the batting order because he made an error, which is on defense. So let me just answer the question is, though, let's assume for a second the player makes an error and the coach stops playing him. Let's assume for a second the player isn't hitting as well and they move him down in the batting. Or let's assume it was one of those two things. Cause I think that'll probably make a little bit more sense for the listener. Is there ever a right time for the parent to talk to the coach? So here's what I would say, and I've addressed this on the podcast before. Depending on your son's age, okay, if your son is in high school, I think it is the responsibility of your son to have a conversation with the coach, if any conversation is necessary. My advice to even professional players is, look, if you ever want to talk to a coach, because in the future, if you're going to make this a career, you're going to have to have hard conversations with adults and you're going to have to address things head on, right? I'm an agent, so you would imagine how many times I get a phone call from a player saying, hey, can you call the GM and ask him this? And oftentimes what I say to them as we're thinking through the situation is, wait a second. Have you talked to the coach about this or the manager about this yet? No, I will. Let's start there. Have that conversation with the manager first. Because when I call the GM or I call the farm director or whomever it is, or the coordinator, oftentimes the first question they'll have for me is, well, I don't have that context. Has he talked to the manager yet? And if I say no, then it's very easy for them to say, we'll have him talk to the manager first. So with all that being said, if your son is in high school, I think it is reasonable for him to have a conversation with the coach and maintain professionalism. No matter what. Don't ever lose it with the coach. This is somebody who is in authority. I think you should show them a level of respect. Regardless whether you like him or not, regardless of how he treats you, you want to be the person who could always Walk away with your head held high, have and show respect. Now, what I would say in this instance, and let's say it's one of those two things, the player needs to go to the coach and just say, hey, coach. Well, first off, I wouldn't ever encourage you to worry about where you're batting in the lineup, because at the end of the day, more time than not, they're going to want the better players to be batting higher up. So if he's penalizing you for some reason and he's moved you down in the lineup, then just go out there and make it a point to go perform better and show them that you should be moved up in the lineup. Right. I think going to a coach and complaining about batting ninth, it just sends the wrong message. It makes it seem like you're worried about the wrong thing. And so I definitely wouldn't encourage you to talk about that. Now, if you make an error and he, you know, benches you or sits you for a couple games, I think is it. It's absolutely appropriate for you to take some time, choose wisely on when you do it. I wouldn't go talk to him right after a loss, but I would go talk to him maybe after practice, and I would schedule a time to talk to him. Hey, coach, do you have 10 minutes after practice? I'd love to pick your brain about something and go approach him and, and ask him questions. Hey, I know I made an error the other day. And then obviously I'm aware I didn't play the, you know, let's just say the two games after. Out of curiosity, is there something that you need to see from me in order for me to get back in the lineup? Get clear. I think sometimes what happens is high school coaches, they don't necessarily like the, the conflict with the player. And so they're not going to seek you out to address this themselves. Some will, right? I'll give some coaches credit. They'll do that. But you, this is your career, we'll call it. You need to address it with the coach and ask him those questions. What do you need to see from me in order for me to be back in the lineup and see what he says, right? And then if he asks you to do something, well, then go make sure that you do it and show him that you're committed to this and that you're willing to put the work in. Like that is a great place to start. Now, in the same instance, let's assume the kid is not in high school and let's just Say it's the kid's 12 years old and it's with a travel ball program or it's in like, you know, Babe Ruth or Cal Ripken or Little League or whatever. And, you know, both of those things happen. The same applies for if they're moving him down in the lineup. I don't think it's, it's right that you talk to the coach about where he's hitting in the lineup. I think it sends the wrong message. It makes you look like a complainer that you're worried about. You know, what does it mean when you're the ninth hitter? You're not the best hitter. It's an ego thing. Go help them win a baseball game. And I would imagine you're going to move up in the lineup, right? Let your performance do the talking. So if you're a parent, I wouldn't talk to them about where you're hitting the lineup. If the error situation happens, there is a right time to talk to a coach about that. And I would encourage you to do the same thing that I'm advising the player to do. In that instance, ask him. I noticed this happened. Was it because he made the error? Yes or no? Right. Show respect, be very calm. This isn't your opportunity to air your grievances and then ask him, can you tell me what he needs to do to then earn your trust back for him to get back in the lineup? And if you have a coach that is a bit of a hothead, maybe he's arrogant and he says, yeah, stop making errors. Right. I think you need to be very calm and get practical. No. In all seriousness, is there anything that you would like to see from us in order for us to earn our way back in the lineup? Is it a matter of we need to take ground balls before practice every single day or after practice every single day? What specifically about his defense do you think doesn't work? Isn't good? Showing flaws? Get clear. What you'll probably experience, and this is what I've seen over the years, is these coaches never think parents are capable of having this reasonable conversation. And when they do, oftentimes they're normal guys and they're going to tell you. And then now that they've told you this is what they want to see, now they know that you're thinking about this in the future, when this kid actually does go early and take ground balls, does stay late and take ground balls, does work on his defense and shows that he's now improving as a baseball player, naturally he knows when he sees you. Oh, right. We did have that conversation. And now's your chance. If he doesn't do what he said he was going to do, now you can hold him accountable. Still want to be, you know, professional, but now you have an opportunity to say, hey, Coach, you know, I just want to make sure we're on the same page here. I asked you this question. Here was your answer. Do you agree that that was your answer? Yes. You said you wanted to see this from him. This is what we've done. Do you believe or did you see that he's done that? Yes. Okay, so out of curiosity, then, why are we not playing? Now? As I articulate this to you guys, families, I do understand how you could be rolling your eyes saying, yeah, if it were only that easy. You don't understand. That's not our coach. You don't understand that's not our situation. I do understand. And what I'm saying is it is easier. Remember? Well, you. You didn't see this episode that I had. I had done previously, but I did an event in San Diego for parents of travel, baseball. Travel, baseball players. And the focus of this event was on the vision that you as a parent and your son has for his career. Okay. And oftentimes what I've experienced and what I've realized is a lot of these parents and these players, they don't really have a vision that they can articulate. And a problem that I've seen is they don't even know where to start. And so what we oftentimes encourage these families to do at these events is to then seek out, all right, what is the complaint of the player or the parent? What is your biggest complaint? And in this instance, the parents biggest complaint would be, I want my son to play. Right. He's putting the work in and the coach is not letting him play. That is the complaint. Well, underneath that is, I wish we had a coach that would do what he said he would do. I wish we had a coach that would actually play the best players. I wish we had a coach that was a man of his word. That right there is a vision. And what you need to do is ask yourself, do I believe this coach is that person or is he not? Because if he is somebody who's not a man of his word, he doesn't do what he says he's going to do, and he is a problem. Well, then maybe it's time for you to find a new team. Right? And so that's something that I would encourage a lot of people to Realize is this, this problem that you're trying to tackle. I think oftentimes parents go to this place of I need to will this into existence. I need to will my son back in the lineup. That's not how this is going to happen. It's going to happen through more like massaging the situation than it is by strangling it. If that's an analogy that resonates. So. So hopefully that makes sense.
- [44:11]
B
Yeah. And I think just to. Just to bring it home and, you know, before we get out of here for this episode, you know, I don't know how uncommon is. Maybe, maybe you can just, you know, give a little bit of more context to this. How uncommon is it for travel ball coaches to be so insanely hard on kids that something like a. Moving down the order to ninth after making an error on the field, how common is that?
- [44:37]
A
Not common at all. It never happens. So that's where it's like, I don't think the, the player is moving most of the time. If a player is going to get moved down in the order, it's because of something going on with the player's offense or there is some issue between the player and the coach and the coach is trying to punish the player or send a message to the player and then. But it's. It has nothing to do with the performance. It has more to do with, yeah, he's got like an ax to grind with them and he's. He's trying to, you know, punish him. And again, if. If that is the environment that you find yourself in with this coach, maybe that's not the right coach for you. Like, that doesn't sound like a coach that I would want to play for. And so I think it just. It. And I also recognize it's not that easy, right. If the players in high school, well, we can't just transfer districts out of nowhere, right? Like, he's. This is the high school that, you know, the, the father went to and the mom went to, and he's been playing with these kids forever. Like, we can't just leave then. I, I understand that and I'm not nearly telling you to just like, ignore that and just leave anyways, but I think you just need to be honest with the facts and then at that point, really try to address, okay, what's the problem here? I just, for me, I think there is so much that can be done through, you know, through just honest conversations than from kind of like sheer force and will. I think that just that that may be something that'll feel better in the moment, but will ultimately lead to a bigger problem down the road. So, you know, and the last thing I'll say on this, and then I know we have to. We have to get going here, Mike, but, you know, there. There's so much that you can achieve and accomplish through honest dialogue, right? Just like working through situations. There's no reason not to be. Will you, as a parent and as a player, you guys are entering into this world of travel, baseball, and it's crazy. It is. I'm not sitting here telling you it's easy, but there is so much that you can achieve by uncovering just, like, the reality of the situation. And what oftentimes we all learn is most of the time, we have, you know, a filter. You know, a filter on our lens through how we're looking at things. And, you know, we oftentimes see things in a different way than. Than in reality, really how it is. And so I would just encourage you guys, like, you want to have this conversation. You want to just ask questions, right? Through the questions, you're going to uncover a lot about the situation and the circumstance. And again, like, I've said this before, if you guys have very specific stuff that you guys want to talk to us about, send us a message, you know, happy to do it.
- [47:30]
B
All right, Matt, that's all we got for today, so let's get on out of here.
- [47:34]
A
Yeah, so, guys, I. I appreciate your time. I know this was a bit of a long one. You know, as always, I. I started this podcast, really, because I had a passion and a desire to really want to make sure that any families going through this in the future, you know, are in a much better place than the families that were going through it five years ago, 10 years ago, even one year ago. So the question that I oftentimes ask myself as we do this, as we. As we think about episodes that we're going to do, is, like, what topic is going to be the most influential topic that. That so many of these parents are constantly navigating and asking themselves every single day. And so if there is something that you guys want us to address, don't hesitate. Like, we don't need. I'm not here to share your name. I'm not here to talk about, you know, I'm not airing any dirty laundry. I merely want to make sure that I address this issue. But I also want to help other parents that may be dealing with the same thing that you're completely unaware of. And so I appreciate you guys tuning in today. If this episode was valuable, please like it. Subscribe to the podcast. That certainly does a great deal for us. And if there's any parent that you're thinking of in your mind as you're watching this episode that you think could also benefit from it, send it to them. We just want to continue to reach as many parents and players as possible. And so until next time, guys, I appreciate it. Let's continue to make stronger families and smarter players.