The Goal Isn't To Be the Best 8-Year-Old — It's To Be the Best 18-Year-Old

Summary

Most Valuable Agent with Matt Hannaford

Episode: The Goal Isn't To Be the Best 8-Year-Old — It's To Be the Best 18-Year-Old

Date: May 6, 2026
Guests: Kevin and Kellen Gergle (East Cobb Mariners, Roswell, GA; Kellen is Class of 2029)

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Episode Overview

This episode explores what it takes to nurture young baseball talent in today's environment. Host and MLB agent Matt Hannaford sits down with Kevin and Kellen Gergle—a father-son duo deeply immersed in baseball (and, as revealed, wrestling and pro sports). They discuss the evolution of youth and travel baseball, how to balance development and exposure, the unique pressures of the modern amateur baseball landscape, and what it means to support young athletes with long-term goals in mind. The core philosophy: Don’t peak at 8 or 10—focus on becoming the best you can be at 18 and beyond.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Shifting Baseball Landscapes for Young Players

[00:54–02:21]

• Travel Baseball Evolution: Kevin reflects on how much travel baseball has changed in recent years, contrasting the pressures and social media scrutiny today’s kids face vs. his own more relaxed era.
• Exposure Dreams: Kellen shares how nationwide tournaments challenge him and help him benchmark his skills.

  “I think it’s good that we’re able to play the top competition from really all over… that helps me try to work harder and try to play my best that I can.” —Kellen [02:49]

2. Testing Yourself & Learning Your Place

[03:20–04:25]

• Matt and Kevin discuss how limited exposure used to leave young players wondering about their level, whereas today’s travel circuits provide feedback and comparison from an early age.
• Young athletes can now recalibrate and set realistic expectations for themselves based on true competition.

3. Kevin’s Playing & Coaching Philosophy

[06:53–08:43]

• Kevin and his wife Teal settled early on a guiding principle:

  “The goal is not for him to be the best 8-year-old, it’s to be the best 18-year-old.” —Kevin [07:09]

• Focus in early years on fun and loving the game (“Driving to the baseball field should be the best part of their day”).
• Avoiding burnout through support and positivity, letting love of the game drive progress.

4. Parent-Player Dynamics & Communication

[08:48–11:21]

• Kellen agrees with his family’s philosophy; he feels supported, not pressured.
• Matt highlights the value of a parent waiting for the child to seek advice, rather than pushing unsolicited feedback.

  “The goal is getting a player to ultimately seek the father’s opinion… rather than the parent forcibly telling you what you should be doing.” —Matt [09:12]

• Kevin admits he wanted to “tinker” early on, but stepping back has led to better, more productive conversations as Kellen matured.

5. Pressure, Social Media, and Rankings

[12:35–14:49]

• Today’s “ecosystem” (rankings, social media) can pull kids deeper into feeling the need for validation.
• Kellen says he tries not to let rankings affect him, but admits it’s hard seeing others hyped online.

  “If I know I’m playing good and… getting hits off them, I know that I belong on that field… But… I do get caught up in that a little bit.” —Kellen [13:00, 13:18]

• Matt and Kevin reinforce that rankings are only partially predictive—many top-ranked players don’t pan out, while “late bloomers” can thrive.

6. The Demands and Grind of Travel Ball

[15:48–17:43]

• Kellen describes the physical toll of packed tournaments (“4-6 games in a day can be brutal at times”).
• Practice is typically 3 days/week during travel ball, plus extra lessons for pitching and hitting.

7. Specialization vs. Playing Multiple Sports

[17:43–19:17]

• Kellen played rec basketball but now focuses on baseball. The system makes it difficult to maintain multiple sports, but organizations like East Cobb support multisport athletes in the fall.

8. Life Balance & Family Support

[19:29–20:10]

• Kellen enjoys movies, music, and watching his favorite team, the Atlanta Braves.
• Family bonding over the Braves is an organic extension of their love for baseball.

9. Learning the Game by Watching Baseball

[20:49–21:44]

• Kellen actively studies MLB pitchers’ approach and strategy, showing how today’s youth are “way more advanced.”

  “Especially some of the top pitchers… I’m looking to see, like, what they’re throwing and what counts, how they're tunneling their pitches, how they're attacking these hitters.” —Kellen [21:14]

10. The Mental Game

[22:11–26:41]

• The mental side is vital—Kellen and Kevin estimate it’s 75–90% of the game, yet little time is spent training this aspect.
• Kevin’s blend of faith and confidence:

  “You have to have irrational confidence to be a baseball player at the highest levels, but you also have to be humble.” —Kevin [24:10]

• Family mantras: “You have what it takes” and “humble huddle” (faith-based grounding).

11. Bouncing Back from Failure & Setting Definitions of Success

[28:43–33:30]

• Kellen focuses on process—hitting the ball hard, competing, improving—even if the box score isn’t perfect.

  “It’s not always going 4-for-4… It’s hitting the ball hard and playing hard.” —Kellen [28:43]

• Matt coaches through the language of setbacks and complaints, helping Kellen reframe negative self-talk (“Need to do more”) into realistic, process-oriented outlooks.

12. Role of Parents as Coaches & Supporters

[33:30–35:22]

• Kevin sees kids who look to their parents for constant affirmation as a sign of potential issues with pressure.
• He advocates building love of the game first, then layering in fundamentals and competition as kids mature.

13. Goal Setting and Tournament Selection

[35:47–40:08]

• Kellen’s current goals: make JV and varsity, increase pitching velocity, drive the ball more, and eventually play college baseball.
• The family prioritizes major tournaments (WWBA, Prep Baseball events), but not showcases until it makes sense for recruiting timelines.
• Division between “exposure” events and true developmental opportunities.

14. Development vs. Exposure

[40:09–41:53]

• Matt stresses: exposure should be a byproduct of development and competition, not the primary focus.

  “The first thing… you should be focused on is development… once you focus on development, then you kind of want to test it… Then, when ready, the natural byproduct… is you’re going to get the exposure.” —Matt [40:42]

15. Q&A: Advice for Young Families, NIL, Agents, and the Business Side

[42:17–50:53]

• Matt’s advice to parents of 8–10-year-olds: emphasize genuine interest, enjoyment, and organic commitment; avoid imposing parental will.
• Discussion of NIL (Name, Image, and Likeness) and the changing college baseball landscape:
  • Difference between sponsor/endorsement NIL and revenue sharing; follower count plays a role, but skill comes first.

  “They’re signing you because you’re good at baseball, not because you have a following.” —Matt [50:24]

16. Major Leaguers, Identity, and Life Lessons

[51:03–55:03]

• Matt shares stories about Austin Riley’s journey to the big leagues and mental resilience through hot streaks and slumps.
• Kevin reflects on his own experience with baseball ending, understanding that personal worth isn’t tied to on-field success.

17. Rapid Fire Fun & Wrestling Family Roots

[55:12–61:35]

• Rapid-fire questions reveal motivations (Kellen: “striking people out”), fears (“my biggest fear is he will feel like he has to perform”), and dream matchups (Kellen would love to strike out Aaron Judge).
• The Gergles’ connection to the wrestling world: Kellen’s uncle is WWE champion Cody Rhodes and grandfather was wrestling legend Dusty Rhodes. Lessons from wrestling—such as resilience and betting on oneself—parallel the baseball journey.

  “His kind of tagline was ‘undesirable to undeniable.’ And if you kind of keep that in the back of your mind… and you have habits that say, hey, I’m going to be undeniable… it’s a great mindset to have.” —Kevin [59:23]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The goal is not for him to be the best 8-year-old, it’s to be the best 18-year-old.” —Kevin Gergle [07:09]
• “If you don't have that love of the game as the foundation, then I think ultimately you’re going to burn out at some point.” —Kevin [07:52]
• “The ranking system… it’s not necessarily completely aligned with, like, the best player is number one… the draft is not following the ranking.” —Matt [14:13]
• “If I know I’m playing good and if I’m striking these ranked guys out or getting hits off them, I know that I belong on that field.” —Kellen [13:00]
• “You have to have irrational confidence to be a baseball player at the highest levels, but you also have to be humble.” —Kevin [24:10]
• “Exposure is a byproduct of doing a lot of other things really well. The first thing… should be development.” —Matt [40:42]
• “You have what it takes.” —Family mantra, Kevin [24:10]
• “My biggest fear is he will feel like he has to perform… I just want him to do it for himself and for the love of the game.” —Kevin [55:59]
• “His tagline was ‘undesirable to undeniable.’” —Kevin about Cody Rhodes [59:23]
• “If you're good enough, they will find you. More true today than ever.” —Kevin [41:17]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Travel Baseball & Evolution: [00:54–02:21]
• Competition & Learning Your Place: [03:20–04:25]
• Philosophy of Development: [06:53–08:43]
• Parent-Child Communication: [08:48–11:21]
• Social Media, Rankings, & Pressure: [12:35–14:49]
• Tournament Schedule & Practice Routines: [16:02–17:43]
• Mental Game & Routine: [22:11–26:41]
• Defining Success & Handling Failure: [28:43–33:30]
• Goals & Tournaments: [35:47–40:08]
• Exposure vs. Development: [40:09–41:53]
• Advice for Parents & NIL Discussion: [42:17–50:53]
• Austin Riley & Identity Outside Baseball: [51:03–55:03]
• Family Wrestling Legacy & Lessons: [57:36–61:35]

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Tone & Takeaways

• The tone is supportive, candid, and at times vulnerable, with a focus on long-term development, realistic perspective, and faith-grounded values.
• Parents are encouraged to build a foundation of love and joy before pushing for performance; exposure and accolades are best treated as results of patient work, not as the main objective.
• Both the challenges and opportunities of today’s high-pressure, social media–driven youth sports environment are dissected—with practical advice for families at every stage.

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Missed the episode? This summary delivers the philosophy, insights, and key guidance discussed—perfect for parents, players, and fans seeking authentic, behind-the-scenes advice from the people living it every day.

Transcript

[A]

All right, so we are joined today by a great baseball family, which I also want to point out kind of a great wrestling family, too, subtly, which we'll get into here in a little bit. But Kevin and kellen Gergle. Kellen, 20, 29. Right. That's your draft year. I should say your senior year. You guys live in Roswell, Georgia, and you guys currently play for the East Cobb Mariners, Right? I get everything correct so far.

[B]

Nailed it.

[A]

Perfect. So, Kevin, I want to kind of start with you. I guess you obviously grew up playing the game of baseball. We're close to the same age. I think I got you by, like, a year or two.

[B]

Better hair, though.

[A]

Thank you. Thank you. I'll take it. I'll take it. In your experience, going through kind of what we're. What we're experiencing now with travel baseball, how much in your mind, are you, like, blown away by the changes that you've seen at least over the last couple years?

[B]

It's completely different, candidly, from from what I experienced growing up. And I am certainly surprised by the pressures that are on Pallen and his teammates and all kids playing travel ball and. And, you know, social media. A lot goes into it that these kids have to deal with that I never had to same. Yeah, right.

[A]

Did you even play travel baseball? Because I. You did.

[B]

I did. Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yes. I started when I. I was 12, playing for Chet Lemon down in Orlando, Florida, on the Juice. So that was my first taste of travel ball, and he was phenomenal. And even before that, I had. I. I was one of the lucky ones who had a great foundation where my parents really just. They got it. They were supportive. My dad coached me up until that point when I was 12. So I had a great foundation. And then it was really when I. I played for the Juice, when my love of the game and the. The travel piece kind of started to. To really go from there.

[A]

Yeah, It. It's interesting because there's so much to, I guess, appreciate about the game and really enjoy what's going on with travel baseball today. But I do think, like, anything there's. You can overdo it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So, Kellen, I guess question for you, this experience for you, right. I imagine, like, playing baseball for a career would be a dream.

[B]

Right.

[A]

How is it to deal with going to one of these tournaments and seeing, you know, hundreds of teams or, you know, hundreds of players? How is it to deal with all the attention that is kind of on you guys, with. Whether it's scouts that you see or recruiting coordinators or just Family members. What is that like?

[C]

I think it's good that we're able to play the top competition from really all over, not just in the state of Georgia. I think that helps me try to work harder and try to play my best that I can.

[A]

Well, you know what I think it's going to do for you, too, is you're going to. You're going to be able to kind of test your skill set against other guys. Where. So when I played, we didn't even have travel baseball, at least where I was in Sacramento. Sure, there probably was further away, but it wasn't anything that I was doing at the time. So we would only do, you know, fall ball.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Over the summer. Honestly, we would kind of casually play American Legion baseball. Sure. But you always kind of wondered in the back of your mind, like, okay, I'm one of the better kids in the. Obviously the. The small area where I'm from, even the city, but then how do I compare against other kids? And it wasn't until I went to junior college, where I finally got to experience like, oh, this is a school who recruits pretty much all throughout California. Oh, okay. Now I can actually look and see how good I am. And. And all it is is it's information for you.

[C]

Right.

[A]

I mean, if you. There's a lot of clients that I represent, and they would be guys who. Let's just say they were sent to hi A. Their first year after they got drafted, and it would take them an entire year to figure out how good am I? Right. And then when they realize, oh, I'm good enough to actually stay at this level, the following year, they would actually have this massive year in high A and they get promoted to double A. Same thing. AA they're kind of like, figuring it out. Then they would perform well next year, have this massive year, and they get promoted. And so I do feel like for you guys now in travel to baseball, like, you're. You have this opportunity, which is really going to ultimately make better players. And I think we're finally seeing in the big leagues right now.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, so many of these guys are arguably better than anybody that came before him. And so I'm excited about what's going to happen kind of in the future. So, Kevin, I do want to touch on it. So your experience in baseball, you didn't just play for Chet Lemon. You eventually went to Kennesaw or as Georgia Tech. Sure, sure. Than Kennesaw State. And when you went from Georgia Tech to Kennesaw, this is like pre transfer portal. So what was that experience like?

[B]

Yeah, so went to Georgia Tech. I had always wanted to go to Tech, and there is a stud first baseman and a stud catcher. My two positions as juniors, both drafted. So I'm thinking they're going to, they're going to get drafted. I'm going to have two spots to compete for. They both come back for their senior year. So I was kind of the odd man out, even though it was a great experience at the, at the school. So transferring to Kennesaw, I wanted to go somewhere I was going to play. That was really important to me. I had played for coach Ryan Coe over the summer in East Cott prior. I loved him. I had some friends on the team, but it was, it was going from D1 to D2, so I had to think about that. But I wanted to go somewhere ultimately that wanted me and where I could play. So of course I transfer there and I immediately get hurt.

[A]

Oh, really? Yes.

[B]

So after two years in college, I had five total at bats. So not how I drew it up when I left Lassiter High School, but ultimately it was the right move and I absolutely wouldn't trade my experience at Kennesaw for anything.

[A]

And so you tell us what happens then. So you were at Kennesaw for three years. What was that last season like there?

[B]

Yeah, I, I, it was great. I wound up just kind of catching fire. Wound up being an all American catcher my senior year, and I really thought that was it. We, we were one game shy of making it to the, the World Series, and I had a few different teams looking at me, but I had hurt my ankle towards the end of my, my career there, and I thought, I thought that was it. But thankfully, the, the Mariners did draft me, and I had an opportunity to play a little bit of pro ball. So it was, it was wonderful.

[A]

And so now, as a father, do you catch yourself? I actually just did a podcast about this. You have a unique experience having played the game right. Even at the professional level. And if you didn't have a chance to play at the professional, even in college, I feel like you'd have a really good mindset for what these kids are dealing with.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But do you ever catch yourself, you know, being, being hard on them?

[B]

I, I would say probably the opposite. Even though at, at times I've had to hold myself back. I think, I think even taking a step back before he started playing at all, my wife, Teal, who, you know, she and I, we, we talked about, I think we need to have a philosophy when it comes to him playing baseball and for us, it's always been and same for the kids that I coach is the goal is not for him to be the best 8 year old, it's to be the best 18 year old. If you have that philosophy as kind of the foundation, I think it shapes the way you view the different stages of their career. Even from T ball all the way up to he's now he's 15. So I've had that in the back of my mind as kind of the foundation. And because I was humbled so many times by baseball, I really wanted to focus on lifting him up and being more like a mental coach almost. So that's, that's where I've tried to stay in that lane. I probably haven't always. He might tell you a different story, but I've been really, really trying to make a conscious effort of that incremental growth. When you're, when you're 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, kind of that first phase, develop the love of the game. Driving to the baseball field, that should be the best part of their day. So if you don't have that love of the game as the foundation, then I think ultimately you're going to burn out at some point.

[A]

And how old was he when you kind of came up with this philosophy?

[B]

4. When we first started in T ball,

[A]

it's all you've really ever known. I was going to ask you, like, have you noticed a difference Ever since he's had this. So what you essentially just described to me is, is brilliant. It's. It's a vision that you have for kind of how this experience should go as a family. Would you, like. Do you agree with that philosophy, Kellen?

[C]

Yeah, I agree with it. I think it really helps me a lot. I don't feel too much pressure at all.

[A]

Amazing.

[C]

I don't feel like I need to do anything else.

[A]

Feel good. Do you ever find yourself being hard on yourself?

[C]

I do because sometimes, you know, after a tough game, he won't really say anything. So I'm just stuck, like, talking to myself. But I think also him not saying anything helps in the, in the long run.

[A]

Okay, I want everyone to know I did not plant this because this literally is a conversation I had on a Q and A episode I just did, where ultimately what the goal is, I think for any family, any father who's, let's just say, coaching his son. And when I say coach, I don't mean like literal coach, but like a supportive figure who's trying to help him. The, the goal I believe is getting a player to ultimately seek the father's opinion, seek the father's advice, rather than the opposite, which oftentimes happens, which is the parent kind of like forcibly telling you what you should be doing. I've seen it, as I'm sure you guys have, when you. When a parent forces advice, guidance, whatever it is, on the player, oftentimes it's met with like, please, enough. I can't do. This doesn't work. And it's not that what the parent or the, you know, particularly the dad may be saying, that's inaccurate. It may be completely accurate, completely fair. It may be something that's exactly what I would say. Right. But because it's coming from the parent, you just don't want to hear it. We all were there. Like, I was there, you were there. And so I think what you're doing, and this is why I wanted to kind of take a moment and acknowledge this. The fact that you have this philosophy is now giving you the opportunity to ask yourself, do I want my dad's advice here? And if you do, I'm assuming you'll ask.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And when you ask, you're more interested in what he's going to say.

[B]

I think you're spot on. I had to learn that lesson myself because, you know, I wanted to tinker with his batting stance, for example, when he was younger, things like that. And I felt that pushback, and I ultimately had to come to the realization that you can't force it. You know, thankfully, he's been surrounded by great coaches, so let them do their job. And like you said, when he's ready, he'll come to me. And I. And I've definitely seen that shift as he's gotten older, you know, working in the cage and stuff with him, he's more open to suggestions for me. But, yeah, I immediately wanted to, like, step in. And then I felt that. That tension a little bit. I was like, you know what? I'm better served just to take a step back.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm assuming when you go to games, other parents maybe don't have this philosophy, and you've seen how that can take a sure, tough turn.

[B]

Well, I think that's why having that. That foundation of. Of or goal or philosophy is so important, because it's very easy to get swept up into it as a parent. I mean, the first time your son connects on. On a. On a, you know, a long hit or strikes somebody out and you kind of get into the. The whole travel ball experience, it can be very easy to be swept by it. So, yeah, I've seen. I've seen parents who I would. I would say kind of get caught up in it. And I've also seen overbearing coaches and dads, and I just know the kids are miserable, and I hate that because, again, especially when they're younger, 4 or 5, 6, 7, 8, it really should be about having fun, learning to be a teammate. And there's some parents, unfortunately. It's just they get caught up in a little bit.

[A]

Yeah. So going back to, like, when we were kids and Kellen, I'm sure your dad's probably talked to you about this at these times. There was no social media.

[B]

Right. Right.

[A]

There was no ranking system. And so now it's like the. The ecosystem that you're in, whether you know this consciously or not, like, the ecosystem you're in is pretty much built to kind of, like, pull you in even more. And so. Yeah. So when a guy's ranked high, what happens, like, as a player, and be honest with me, when you see these rankings.

[B]

Right.

[A]

What do you. What do you want with the ranking?

[C]

I mean, I obviously want to get ranked, but that's not the whole thing. If I know I'm playing good and if I'm striking these ranked guys out or getting hits off them, I know that I belong on that field.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

And that I deserve the rank even if I don't get ranked.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But there also have been times where I'm not performing well. And then I see on social media, like, kids my age throwing 10, 15 miles an hour harder than me or in the ball way harder than I am. And I do get caught up in

[B]

that a little bit.

[A]

Yeah. I think it's normal.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Any kid is.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I mean, look, adults are having a hard time with it, so what does that tell you? No, but I just. My point in it is the ecosystem is built to, like, get you to want to get ranked and want to get ranked higher and continue to move up. And all it takes, and this is maybe why I feel like this podcast was necessary at some point, is all it takes is to realize, oh, this one particular player I remember, you know, 10 years ago, he was ranked in the top five from the time he was a freshman until he was a senior. And then the draft comes and he doesn't get drafted, and you're left wondering, well, how did that happen?

[B]

Right.

[A]

And it just makes you realize, like, oh, right. The ranking system, while maybe somewhat indicative of who are good players, it's not necessarily completely aligned with, like, the best player is number one, the second best player is number two, so on and so forth. Right. Like the draft is not following the ranking. And so, you know, a guy who comes to mind is like, Evan Longoria. You know the name Evan Longoria, I'm assuming. Right. I mean, this guy, you know, high school baseball player, doesn't end up at a big program, goes to a junior college, ends up at Long Beach State, becomes a third overall pick. Those stories happen.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And so I think as a player, it's an important reminder that it's all about, like, how much do I want Tarik Skubal? I think he was like Seattle University or something like that, in the north, in the Northwest. Right. Wasn't a high ranked player, wasn't a huge draft prospect, and this guy won the Cy Young Award. And so I think it's, it's always important to kind of put everything in perspective, which again, going back to your philosophy, I think is so important because it, it allows him to be himself. It allows you guys as a family to just like take some pressure off. And it really, more than anything, is kind of this guiding light. Like, am I making this decision because it's what's going to ultimately make him the best 18 year old or is it what's going to make him the best 8 year old? And then you kind of change your approach. Okay, is there anything that you would say, Kellen, that you're like, you know, this part of it isn't fun. Like, this part of travel ball isn't really fun.

[C]

I think that the toughest part about travel ball is when we get into these tournaments that are only Saturday and Sunday, if we're doing really well, we're gonna have to play like four or five or six games in one day, back to back to back.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And that takes a toll on my body.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. It's funny. I guess there's never a good time for that, but if there's any good time for it, it's probably now. But you're right, I mean, there's like, you know, the law of diminishing returns is a thing. So at some point you're like, yeah, you're probably not going to get the most out of yourself. Do you feel like, what's your guys's like, practice schedule? Like, what does that look like?

[C]

For high school it was pretty much practice every day, but for travel it's more three days a week, I'd say. And then do a couple lessons like once a week.

[A]

And do you go to. Is there A Like, does the travel team have a facility that you go to and use?

[C]

Yeah. So my coach for travel ball, I do pitching lessons through him.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And then one of his old teammates, I do hitting lessons with.

[A]

Oh, nice. And so both at the same facility. Two different. Okay. And so walk me through again, like, give me, like, a typical week.

[C]

So about start on Monday, practice, really. And then.

[A]

And this is with the high school.

[C]

This is for travel.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Travel Tuesday, a pitching lesson Wednesday, kind of an off day. Maybe go up to, like, the park, go to the cages.

[A]

Games.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. It's wild. And how do you. 15. Right. And this is what you. I mean, it's great because you love the game, but this is what it requires. Right. This is what everyone else is doing. Do you ever get to the point where you're like, do you play other sports, by the way? Just baseball.

[B]

You played basketball rec. Which I think was an important part, too, of this whole process. It's tough. It's tough to be able to play multiple sports just because the way the current system set up. But if you can. And that's what I like about East Cobb, the Mariners organization, is they really encourage these guys to play another sport, if you can, in the fall, because fall is really, really light, which I think is fantastic. But I loved watching them play basketball probably more than baseball, honestly.

[A]

Did you. Did you want to stop playing basketball? Like, from the schedule standpoint? Yeah. I was in the same boat when I was a kid, too. Played multiple sports. And then it gets to a. It gets to a place where you're like, okay, we're so crazy busy that I can keep doing this. It's just gonna be very, very hard on the family. So now maybe is the right time to make a decision. I only bring it up because I think a lot of families mistakenly think, we don't have a choice. We have to do this. If we don't do this, we're gonna fall behind. And that's where I always push back, is like, don't do it because you're going to fall behind. Do it because, like, yeah, like, from a timing perspective, it's too much on the family. And, like, we can't do both. But don't do it because you think, you know. And to your philosophy, again, like, that would tell you the same thing.

[C]

Sure.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The. I can think of many conversations I've had where literally kids are like, yeah, no, I just feel like the industry is telling me that I have to choose now, and that's. That's all I Can do.

[B]

And that's a shame. I know.

[A]

Yeah, it is. But it is part of this experience in this environment, unfortunately. Let's talk about. Okay. You have hobbies?

[C]

Yeah, I like watching movies, listening to music.

[A]

Listening to music. Do you watch baseball?

[C]

I do watch a lot of baseball.

[A]

Favorite team?

[C]

Braves.

[A]

Okay. Makes sense, because we're in Atlanta.

[C]

Absolutely.

[A]

By the way, shout out to the Bravo Ocean Studios. Thanks, fellas.

[B]

Amazing.

[A]

Yeah. You guys are going to a Braves game actually today, in fact.

[B]

We sure are.

[A]

Very cool.

[C]

Favorite player, Spencer Schreider, when he's healthy.

[A]

Okay. I figured it was going to be a pitcher, by the way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was hoping you would say Austin, but that's understandable. Understandable. When you watch baseball. Like, tell me how you're watching it. And by the way, have you talked to him about, like, to watch baseball? Has that been a conversation?

[B]

I think it just happened organically because I love watching the Braves. Always have. And that, you know, that's how I connected with my dad. Going to Tigers games growing up when we lived in Detroit, and then with Kellen, I think it's. With the Braves, it's just. It's usually on. So it just happened organically. And then. Yeah, I think when he was younger, wasn't about looking for anything in particular, just enjoying it. Um, we were lucky that the Braves won the World Series a few years ago. To have that moment and go to a couple games with him in the playoffs was unbelievable. But now, as he's older, maybe looking at it a little bit differently, you

[A]

know, especially as a pitcher, too. Like, why did he throw that pitch in that count?

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

Which can be really confusing at the big league level, because have you ever heard, like, pitching backwards? Have you ever. Yeah, like, it can be a little confusing because, like, wait a minute. What did he just throw in that count? It happens at the big league level. They're actually starting to do that, Funny enough, even in college now I believe it. Yeah. Guys are more advanced and they can locate other pitches, so. So you found value in watching these baseball games?

[C]

Definitely. Especially some of the top pitchers, like Skins or Scribble. I'm looking to see, like, what they're throwing and what counts, how they're tunneling their pitches, how they're attacking these hitters.

[A]

This is what I mean. Kids are way more advanced.

[C]

Sure.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When I was in high school, I wouldn't have even known any of that stuff.

[B]

Same. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Which is ultimately, again, it's a good thing. Certainly is. Okay, so talk to me about Spencer Strider. And why you think? Why is he your favorite player?

[C]

I just really like his stuff. I like his fastball a lot. How he just goes after guys and gets a lot of strikeouts.

[A]

Do you pay attention to, like, his demeanor on the mound? Because I do know he's a pretty intense guy.

[C]

Yeah, I do a lot. And also another thing about him is his build.

[A]

Yeah, definitely.

[C]

His legs are pretty big. So.

[A]

They are.

[C]

Try to work on my legs a little bit.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Get some velo.

[A]

So, Kevin, you brought up the mental side earlier. I want to talk about that a little bit. I think this is such a fascinating conversation because, funny enough, I was in Athens, as I shared with you guys, and were playing South Carolina. We have players on Georgia as well as a player on South Carolina.

[B]

Very cool.

[A]

And oftentimes I find myself having conversations with these guys about the mental side of the game.

[B]

Right.

[A]

All it takes is to ask one player, like, hey, what. What percentage of the game is mental? And you would say, what would you say? Take a guess. There's no right answer, by the way.

[C]

90.

[A]

Okay. Right. Everyone's anywhere between 75 and 90%. That's what they say. And my follow up is historically always, okay, great. How much of your time is devoted to that 90%? If there's a hundred percent available. Right. You're spending all this time throughout the week training and doing all this stuff. What percentage of the time is spent on the mental side? And what I typically get is, I don't know, like 1%, 2%. And I've always found that fascinating because if you're a guy looking for. And I don't mean this with you, because you're still developing as a player and everything, but as you get older, you get these guys. Even in pro ball, it's like you're a guy who. You know what it looks like physically to be here. Oftentimes what separates guys is the mental side. And you aren't really spending or devoting much time to that piece of. What if we took just a bit of time? You're not taking it away from the physical side. You're gonna still do that. You love doing all that. But let's devote some of the time to the mental piece. And most guys are, like, all about it.

[B]

Sure, yeah.

[A]

But their next question is always, what do I do?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I'm curious, like, how do you. What is the mental side to you? And like, how do. How do you guys go about handling that? Talking about that?

[B]

Yeah. There's something I struggled with. I was kind of streaky as a hitter. And it's. It's interesting because you have to have irrational confidence to be a baseball player at the highest levels, but you also have to be humble. And those two can. Can kind of conflict. So something I did with him and his sister Teal and I like to do, I. Growing up, when they're little, before they went to bed, I would say, you have what it takes. You have what it takes. And I just. I just wanted to repeat that over and over. So hopefully it will start to seep in. And then on the other side of that, we would do something called a humble huddle.

[A]

Love this.

[B]

Humble thyself in the sight of the Lord, and he will lift you up. So there's kind of that element of it as well. So it's really interesting because you fail so much in baseball. You fail, you fail, you fail, and it can wear on you. And how do you. How do you. How do you avoid, you know, an O for four. Now all of a sudden you hit a couple more hard, but you don't get any hits. Now you're over eight. Now you're in your head. It's tough. It really is. So that combined with, you know, I think having having habits in place, routines in place, where, again, you're more focused on. On the process than the outcome, especially when they're younger. And that's easier said than done, though, because, you know, like I said, if you go over for a couple of games, all of a sudden you're in your head. So it's difficult. But having a foundation that you've got what it takes, but still humble in your faith, I think can help you set that as a baseline and then. And how you get there to prepare mentally outside of that, I think it might vary for different people.

[A]

How does that sit with you?

[C]

Yeah, there's been a lot of times where I'm in a slump, where it just feels like I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know why I'm still playing. I should stop. But going to him for advice has definitely helped me in that spot. He's not just pressuring me, just pounding me with advice. I'm going to him for that advice. And another thing about that that has helped is knowing that slumps happen to everyone, even at the highest level. Like I saw Cal rally, started the season over 7 7ks, and he's one of the best players in the world. So knowing that every baseball player.

[B]

Yeah, Decent.

[C]

Goes through that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Helps. Yeah. So what is so interesting about. I Would say anything when it comes to the mental side is, well, maybe this is just baseball in general. It's truly an opportunity. I think most guys, when they look at, like, oh, I want to be a good baseball player. I have to do all this work, right? Physical, mental, whatever it is. And what. What I would almost make the argument of. And a good buddy of mine who. I've had it on this podcast multiple time. Joe, we've talked about this where baseball, sports in general, right. Working on this skill, it's really. It's all connected through life, right? Like, if you. Like, I would almost make the argument that if you can get really, really good at the mental side in the game of baseball, it directly correlates to your ability to be mentally strong in life. And so one of the things that you brought up is obviously your faith. Sure, right. Connects directly to life, obviously. But most times when guys are, like, wrestling with. That's like, the perfect word for me, because you're like, I know that there's a higher level of thought that I'm not necessarily thinking, but how do I even tackle it? And what it does require, I mean, you're going through this for the first time. Like, there's no, oh, I'm gonna drink the Kool Aid. And then, like, I have the thing, and now I'm just gonna be a big leaguer, and that's just how it's gonna go. Like, no, you're constantly wrestling with how. How do I make adjustments, right? What's working, what's not working, and. And, like, refining as you go. And when guys who are talented enough physically, when they don't ultimately make it, it's like they got to a place where maybe, yeah, they just couldn't overcome this one thing. And most of the time, that is one of the mental pieces that they're struggling with. And so I would love to kind of go through this little exercise with you if it. I think it would be helpful for you guys, and I also think it'd be helpful for people listening. So what does success look like for you in baseball?

[C]

Success really just looks like it's not always going 4 for 4 with three RBIs. It's hitting the ball hard and playing hard my hardest. I know that if I'm playing good, even if the results aren't there, that I'm getting better, and that shows me that I'm doing what I need to do.

[A]

And what's success, let's say, on the mound for you?

[C]

Is my stuff working? A lot of the times you know, not every pitch is going to work, not every ball hitting play, your fielders are going to make the play. But if I know I'm getting soft contact and I'm able to have the hitters off balance, I know that I'm doing what I need to do on the mound.

[A]

I love that. So it's important that players get clear. Right on. Like, well, what does success even look like for me? Because oftentimes what happens is people live in a world where everything just lives in their head. And what they think is that I can just, I can will this thing to happen and it's just going to kind of happen.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And when we have failures in baseball, we get frustrated and we think we're no good and this like cycle just continues. But when we have success, we think we're great and it's just going to continue forever. And it's all a little bit of a fallacy, right? We're going to have both and you're going to be wrestling with it and figuring it out as you go. But now think about, like when you have a bad game, okay, what's something that you would say that's like a complaint that you would have

[C]

a complaint

[A]

that maybe you would like repeat to yourself? Maybe like, oh, man, I sucked today. Or.

[C]

Yeah, it just feels like some of the times that like I need to be getting these hits, I need to be playing better. But I mean, baseball, you fail seven out of 10 times.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You're a Hall of Famer.

[A]

So what I love about you is you already have this like built in positive view. So immediately. And not a lot of kids have this immediately upon you feeling a certain way negatively, you have this side of you that's already saying like, yeah, but like, this isn't, that's not true. Like, this is the reality of this game. People feel seven out of 10 times. Right. But follow me with this exercise.

[B]

Right?

[A]

So tell me the first part of that again for the listener, that it

[C]

feels like I need to be playing better. It feels like I need to be doing more.

[A]

Right. So need. Right. I need to. So underneath that need is this belief or this vision that, well, the reason I need to is because if I don't do this, something's gonna happen that I do not want to have happen. And that's what a complaint ultimately is, right? Something that you wanna have happen that isn't happening or something that you don't wanna have happen or I'm sorry, something that you don't wanna have happen that is happening or something that you wanna have happen, that isn't happening either one of those two. And so in that experience that you're having, you're like, oh, if this doesn't happen for me, what does then that mean for my career, baseball, life, whatever? And we go down these rabbit holes, right? Well, underneath all of these complaints is this ultimate vision. And so when guys don't have success, they're not piecing it together like you are already knowing that this is part of the game. They're going down the rabbit hole of saying, oh, no, I don't know what to do. And then what also happens is the language that they use to describe their experience is all bad.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And then what happens with the parent who sees it happening, who shows up and says, like, all these thoughts are going through, let's say, your head after a game. You haven't even seen your parents. You see your parents and the first thing that your dad says to you, let's say, is like, what are you doing out there today? You look terrible. What are you thinking? What are all those lessons for? Why are we taking you and spending all this money? This is a waste of money. So it just reinforces like, oh, man, I really, really need this. So now what happens? More stress, more pressure, and this cycle continues over and over and over. So I want to commend you because you. And really you. Because what you already kind of have the habit of being curious about. I know I feel this way, but is this in fact true for me in baseball? Well, no, because if I'm expecting to have success 100% of the time, that's not this game. Right. Failure is part of it. So that's really, really good. Yeah. Yeah. Not many, not many players do that, man. Honestly, guys learn that. It. Maybe they'll learn it later on in high school, maybe college. Some guys even in pro ball because they've been getting away with being so good physically, sure, that they just showed up and been like, yeah, this is how good I am.

[B]

Yeah, I know. I. I mean, I. Candidly, I was a bit of a head case myself, and I. I think that's kind of helped me as a parent because I didn't want him to. To experienced that. Even though I had an amazing upbringing, amazing parents, there's just something in me that I wrestled with kind of off and on. It was a bit of a roller coaster mentally. So I wanted to do what I could to help set a foundation for him where he'd be better equipped. But it's so hard. Baseball is such a Hard sport in general. And, yeah, I see it a lot with parents. I think I'm lucky because I have a unique perspective. I've been basically an assistant coach for his team since he was 4 now, even through East Cobb. So I get to. I get to coach first base. I get to be in the dugout, but I also get to be a parent. And so I get to see different perspectives. And you can. You can tell the kids who are always kind of looking back at their parents from the dugout into the stands, and it always drove me crazy that they would do that and they would feel like they had to.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just to just kind of check and see how. How their parents are reacting.

[A]

Like reinforcement, almost.

[B]

Yeah. Looking for reinforcement.

[A]

Or.

[B]

Or when things weren't going well, you could tell they, you know, it was. They, you know, ideally they should just be focused on the game and not their parents. But I. I have seen that some.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So. Yeah. But on the same. Same token, I think it goes back to the mental piece. A big part of it is the joy of the game, the love of the game. That's why it's so important to instill that from the very beginning, because you ultimately have to love it. To be able to do something that you're going to fail out over and over, you have to have that love for the game. And I think laying that foundation at an early age is so important. And then the next piece of that, once you have that, you kind of build on kind of the fundamentals and the.

[A]

The.

[B]

The willingness to compete, the competitiveness. And I think as they progress and they get a little older and they start to hit puberty, then if you have the love of the game, you have the fundamentals, you have that. That. Then it's a matter of, all right, let's. Let's make it happen. What are the habits we need to have in order to. To make it happen? And part of that is. Is working on the mental game, which we talked about. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

What are your. Give me some of your goals. Like when you're, you know, when you're a senior. What are some of your goals? We have a few years for that to happen, but just curious.

[C]

I mean, I definitely want to play college baseball. I think that's the big goal right now. But right now, some of my smaller goals are throw a little harder, gain a little velo on the mound, start driving the ball a little more, keep progressing, like, make my jv and then obviously make varsity at my high school. So those are some of the goals

[A]

that nice as it relates to travel ball. And this is a question like, I don't. I. I think every kid is kind of different. What. What tournaments, Showcases do you guys go to? And maybe that's a question you have for me.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

But I'm really curious because I think the goals that you ultimately have, both for this season and the years to come, should be guiding your thoughts. Because if you have nothing guiding that, then it feels like, oh, well, we should go to everything. Like, we'll never say no. And then that becomes crazy.

[C]

So, yeah, so we're mainly playing in Perfect Game in PBR for Baseball right now. I personally haven't gone to any showcases because a lot of these showcases, like, I don't think you need to go until you're, like, in high school.

[A]

I would. I would agree with you. Well, not only that, here's the reality of these showcases is what is the point of the showcase? Right? There's. There needs to be a point of the showcase. You don't go to a showcase to go to a showcase. Like, that's not the goal of it, Right? Naturally, a showcase is somewhere you can show off your. Your talent. When's the time in baseball that you would need to show off your talent? Well, if your goal is to go play college baseball, they can't even talk to you until, you know, August one of your junior year.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So why go to a showcase at 15? Right. There's got to be some other reason. And personally, I don't necessarily think there is one at this age. So you certainly. Yeah, I mean, that's. I would be right along with you guys saying, like, there's no real need to go to a showcase yet. But what about the tournaments? Like, what. Which specific tournaments do you guys typically go to?

[C]

Yeah, a lot of the big Perfect Game tournaments, like the wwba.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

It was in Hoover last year. It's back in Atlanta this year.

[A]

That's exciting for you guys. It is, yes.

[C]

But that's always a fun one because, I mean, it's like 150 teams all over, so. But it's cool to see how I compare to a lot of these guys.

[A]

Absolutely. All over. Okay, so that's a big one. Is there any others that kind of jump out?

[C]

There's a big prep baseball one always at Lake Point. That's similar to the wwba.

[A]

Yeah, that's a great facility there. It is. Yeah. What are your. So when you've kind of crafted this plan for these tournaments, how have you gone through that. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

You know, candidly, because I'm not the head coach, I, I get the lucky job to just kind of show up, be the first base coach and cheer these guys on. So I'm not involved with the structure and setting up the, our schedule. But a lot goes into it because I see it. He's very blessed that he's got a phenomenal coach in Kenny Falk, who he played for Kennesaw State. He was drafted by the Tigers, AAA closer.

[A]

He gets it.

[B]

For him, it's all about the process. He's got a very blue collar mentality. He's not out there chasing, chasing titles on these weekend tournaments. He's really about development. He's about putting these kids in the best position and he's about competing. And Kellen will tell you that too. It's. It's. No spot is secure on that team. They're constantly competing and they have that kind of mentality. So I think as they look to schedule the season, it's, it's finding that balance. You want to play against the best, and these bigger tournaments certainly do that. We're really lucky too, being in the Atlanta area, that a lot of the local teams, there's just so many talented players, players and programs that any given weekend he's going to be playing against the top competition. So it's about finding the balance of how often do you want to play. You know, thinking about arm care, how many people you have on your team, how many games you're gonna have to play. So a lot goes into it. I'm thankful I don't have to plan all that. But they do a really good job.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I think the goal isn't, oh, everybody needs to go to these specific events. It's like, well, no, what are your, what are your goals? There has to be a why to everything.

[C]

Sure, sure.

[A]

Don't just go to events to go to events. What is your philosophy on. Because I've been openly talking about this for a while where I think the mistake that oftentimes gets made is the focus for parents is exposure, exposure, exposure, exposure. It's the, you know, my kid's good enough, we just have to get them seen. And I always make the argument with families that that shouldn't. That that is a byproduct of doing a lot of other things really well. The first thing that you should be kind of focused on is development.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Which you guys are. Once you focus on development, then you kind of want to test it. Like you said, I want to compare myself like, where am I relative to everybody else? So I want to go compete to figure out where do I stack up and then when ready, the natural byproduct of everything is going to be you're going to get the exposure. Right. Partly because you go to these events, partly because you're in Atlanta, partly because you're good enough. Right. And I think sometimes everybody needs to understand with the way that the scouting community is set up, if you're good enough, they will find you.

[B]

So true. Yeah, so true.

[A]

More true today than ever.

[B]

Even back when we played, they would find you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And even more so now. You're right. And, yeah, I think, I think you're spot on. I think what you're. You're doing with this podcast and the message you're putting out to the parents is so important too, because taking my coach hat off and putting my parent hat back on, it's easy to get caught up in this. It's exciting when your kid does good and you want the best for them, naturally, as a parent. So part of you thinks that exposure is going to help them, and it certainly will, but it's got to be organic.

[A]

You're right.

[B]

If they're doing the right things, if they have the right process, if they're getting better, playing against the right competition, if they're good enough, they will be found. It's as simple as that.

[A]

Um, so I'd like to do this, if you guys would humor me for a minute. Um, are there any questions that you're curious about that you'd want to ask me? Because I want to make sure I at least spend some time on that, if you guys have any questions.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I've got a million questions for you. Um, I, I think I would start at, at the highest level, just in general. What, what would your philosophy be if you were to advise someone who has, let's say, an 8, 9, 10 year old who's just starting to show some signs of promise? What would be your. Your, your biggest piece of advice or philosophy that you would. You would want to see?

[A]

For me, I'd be curious how much does my kid want to play the game?

[C]

Right.

[A]

Like, that would. That would lead my thinking. I think what happens sometimes is, as parents, we'll have a belief of what we want for our kids, and we let that kind of lead the way. And look, it comes from a good place. Right. I believe all parents, they. They love their kids so much that they want to do their part and they want to make sure. Maybe it's because that never happened for them. Or maybe their parent did do that for them and it really helped them get to where they are today. But they want to be that kind of solid figure for their child. And so they really not forcibly, but they, they think they can will it into existence. And I've seen the unfortunate consequence of maybe the kid not communicating well enough. And so he just kind of, you know, follows his parents lead, goes to all the events, gets to a place at unfortunately probably around like 13, where he realizes, I don't want to do this anymore. This is not, this isn't fun. And then the parents like, what do you mean? I had no idea. So I would want to be led first by does my kid actually enjoy it? So I'd want that to be as organic as possible. At 8 years old, I'd be looking at it like to your point, 8 isn't the goal. It's really 18 and beyond. If we're, you know, God willing, lucky enough for my kid's gonna be good enough at that point, then let's see what it looks like then. But at 8, let's just go out there and have as much fun as humanly possible and then see what are your interests? Is it baseball? Maybe it's golf, like for me. So I played, I played baseball, ice hockey, funny enough, basketball and football as a kid, right. Got to a place where hockey was actually my like first love. And then it just sucked the life out of me because of the travel. It was crazy at that age. And because I grew up in California, I wanted to play with all my high school buddies. They didn't have hockey in high school.

[B]

Hockey, yeah.

[A]

So I just went and I, I

[B]

still should still skate.

[A]

I haven't gone in like 30 years, so I don't know. But I just pretty much, I don't want to say settled on baseball, but it got to a place where I'm like, baseball's my best sport, so let me then just go play baseball so I can go play with all my buddies in high school. So to answer your question, I would start there and then above and beyond that. Once I know that my kid actually really likes it is I would get really specific with him and ask him, how committed do you want to be to this? Because we can really dive in. But let me tell you what that's going to look like. Or we can just like casually play. And then I would, I would continue to watch him and then put him in situations where it's like, no, his back's against the wall, let's see how he responds and try to do that as organic as possible with like my hands off as much as that. I can control that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's where I would start and then continue to refine and adjust as we go.

[B]

That's fantastic. My other question would be because this is brand new to me and you know, God willing, he. He does continue to progress and gets to a point where he's able to play in college and achieve that goal with nil. With, you know, do you have a manager, do you have an agent? Even if they're just playing college baseball, as you know, all that seems foreign to me as well. So.

[A]

Yeah, so what I would say as far as nil, and here's what's interesting. What things look like today with NIL is going to be drastically different than what things look like when you're a senior in high school, right? Things are going to change quite a bit and continue to change quite a bit. Now, with that being said, the reality is, is NIL and baseball today isn't nearly what it is in some of these other sports. So that's the first thing. I think a lot of parents and players see SEC quarterbacks and they're like, oh my gosh, this guy's making $4 million this year. That's not necessarily happening in baseball. But if you compare the money in baseball today in nil to, you know, pre nil, like, obviously it's drastically different and there is a lot of money. So with the nil piece, there's an important distinction that I want to make sure people understand. So the first is when you go to college. We're going to start there and then I'll back it up into high school. When you go to college. There's a difference between what people think of as nil and what something called revenue sharing is. Have you heard of either term?

[B]

Have you?

[A]

No. Okay, so that's the easiest way to explain this would be both are a component of nil, okay, which basically is buying your name, image and likeness, right? So, like, think about it like your brand. If I'm a school and I'm giving you nil money, I'm. I'm wanting to purchase the ability to use your brand, right? And so there's two components of that. One is. Actually there's three, but we'll say there's two for the purpose of this conversation. One is nil, like marketing Nil, like Delta Airlines wants to call on the phone and say, hey, we want you to be in a commercial. And in exchange we're going to pay you for it, right? That's like the marketing piece. The other piece is what's called revenue share, which is literally coming directly from the school. And it feels like a paycheck, right? Every month you're going to get this amount. So I bring both of these things up because your advisor representation at that point is negotiating both of those two things right now. The third component I said I wasn't going to touch on, that's like the scholarship piece. Like, that's a third bucket, which I did an episode with Will Lawler, the associate ad at the University of Georgia a couple of weeks ago, and he. We got into all this stuff. So if you want to go listen to that, that could be helpful. Now that's in college, right? So then back that off. And now it's high school. What's going on in high school? Think about it from the standpoint of what are they buying? They're buying the use of my brand. So what is my brand, right? Who, what. What is my social media conveying to the world about who I am? What they're really buying is your followers, right? They, your followers say something about you to them. And so nowadays, give you an example. So equipment companies, when you got drafted back in the day, they would figure out, like, okay, how good do I think this player is? And if you're on the New York Yankees and they think you're going to be the next Aaron Judge, okay, well, if I'm Nike, I want to be associated with you because on tv I want you to wear Nike, right? Where nowadays it's less about that and more about how many followers do you have? Because that's the attention that I want to purchase. So as a kid today, and I'm not encouraging people to do this, but like, what it's ultimately about for these companies is who is this person? What is his brand? And do we want to be associated and do we want to have access to his followers? So if you're somebody with a thousand followers compared to somebody with 500,000 followers, those are two different numbers right? Now, with that being said, the better players, I think all these companies recognize, like, okay, he doesn't have the followers now, but he will the minute let's say he gets drafted. And so there is still some interest from those companies, but that's kind of that nil piece that I know a lot of parents and players are totally confused by, which I understand. Now, what I'm not saying is for everybody just to say, oh, so I really need to be devoting a ton of time to building my brand at 15. If that's it, if, like, that's an interest of you, but if it's actually something that you don't really care about or think about, don't waste time on that, because that's not going to be the thing that ultimately becomes your ticket to the big leagues.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, they're signing you because you're good at baseball, not because you have a following. Right. If you have a following, okay, that's great. It's a bonus. But it's not. It's not like the. The introduction into them having interest. So all to say, I guess to answer your question, it's, yeah, an advisor, an agent would help you navigate that world when the time comes. But we obviously have a few years till that happens, and when that happens for you, it's going to be totally different. Yeah. So hopefully that was helpful. Yeah.

[B]

Very interesting.

[A]

Do you have any questions?

[B]

No.

[A]

No, Nothing comes to mind. You don't want to know what it's like with these big leaguers. Nothing.

[C]

How did you meet Austin Riley? Like, how did that relationship kind of start?

[A]

I met him through his travel. Baseball coach in 2014, I think. Yeah, 2014. So it's been a while. Yeah. And at the time, he was. Yeah, he was in high school, kind of coming into his own a little bit. And so, interestingly enough, anytime we're talking to kids, let's just say at that age, right, at 17 years old, 16 years old, it's a leap of faith. Like, you don't. You don't know if a kid's going to develop, like, he hopefully will, you know, again, I've been doing this long enough to know, like, I've. I've represented players at 17, 18 years old that I would have said, I mean, this guy's going to be the next Austin Riley. This guy's going to be the next, you know, great player in the game. And it hasn't happened for him, maybe because of injury, maybe because, you know, mentally they weren't capable. Maybe it's because, you know, just it didn't work out for him in pro ball. Right. But funny enough, then there's these guys like Austin who you just see this, like, thing in them and you're like, yeah, what that is, like, that works. And the thing for Austin that I will tell you is he gets to the big leagues and he goes on this massive terran. I don't know if you remember that. You were probably too young at the time. This is 2018 was the year. So he goes into spring training and he has this really good spring training, right? And they've got Donaldson on the team. They're like kind of set. It's easy for them to start him off in aaa. Has a really good camp though. Doesn't make the team, goes to aaa. And there was certainly some frustration for Austin. Felt like I, I did enough, right? But being who Austin is, goes out and ultimately like, hey, I just got to go perform. I can't worry about that stuff. Like, that's not going to be anything I can ultimately control. So he goes out for the first three weeks of the season and he hits something like 15 home runs in like the first three weeks of the season in AAA. And it got to a place where the GM of the Braves at the time is like, okay, like, you pretty much fought your way into the big leagues because we need that guy who's that hot in the big leagues. So then he starts off in the big leagues and he hits like 10 home runs in the first month in the big leagues. So now he's got like. And I'm. And I'm, you know, rounding up, I'm sure, because I don't remember exactly what the totals are, but it was like 20 something homers in the first month, month and a half. Crazy between the AAA and the big leagues. And then gets to a point where it's like, goes ice cold, right? And so imagine having gone through that and then now you're in the big leagues and you've been waiting for this, and then you're like, oh man, what's going on? And that, needing to fight through that. I mean, it's crazy. And so all to say, to use your words earlier, it's part of the game, right? You're going to fail 7 out of 10 times. And so why is that mental piece so important? Why is the strong faith so important when that happens? What does it say about who you are?

[B]

Absolutely. And when I, when I was released by the Mariners and all of a sudden I found myself, you know, 20, about 25 years old, really. My identity from when I was like 5 to 25 for 20 years, I'm a baseball player. I'm a baseball player. But when that's taken away from you, it's a major shock to your system. And that's when I really realized there's gotta be more to life than baseball. And, you know, it's character, it's faith, it's other things.

[A]

But.

[B]

But yeah, there's a point where everyone no longer plays baseball. If you make that solely your identity, I think you're going to. You're going to really struggle when that, when that time comes, it's. We love Austin Riley. Yeah, he absolutely rakes. It's so interesting that you could be that hot. Then you, you make it and then all of a sudden it, it falls off like that. To have that mental strength of that he was able to then overcome. That's pretty cool.

[A]

Yeah, it's pretty incredible, right?

[B]

Yeah. He set some big time hits for the Braves too. We love Austin.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Fun to watch.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We have a couple minutes left. Humor me. I'm going to do a little kind of quick rapid fire for both of you guys. Okay. So I want you guys to finish my sentence and I'll start with you. Coaches are.

[B]

Coaches are either helpful or not.

[A]

The thing I love doing most on the baseball field is

[C]

striking people out.

[A]

Love it. Why? Just out of curiosity.

[C]

It's just a really good feeling knowing that my stuff is better than the sitter.

[A]

I love that. Okay. My biggest fear for him on the baseball field is.

[B]

My biggest fear is he will feel like he has to perform like he doesn't. In my mind, like, I've already had more joy watching him play up to this point than I, I will ever need. So my, my biggest fear is that he feels like he has to. I just want him to do it for himself and for the love of the game.

[A]

Wonderful. You got a good dad, man. Okay. All right. If I could strike anybody out in the big leagues, I would choose to strike Aaron Judge. Okay. I love it. What would you do if you struck out Aaron Judge? Would you like show him up? Would you stare at him?

[C]

No, I would just walk off. I would want to, but I try to just control my emotions.

[A]

Yeah, he's.

[B]

He, he's really blessed because he goes to Blessed Trinity in Roswell, as you mentioned, and a senior on that team, Contreras, Joseph Contreras, played for the World baseball. I saw he faced Judge and he got him to double play, broken bat. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Pretty crazy. I was watching that game and I'm like, this is just insane.

[B]

So how lucky is he that as they were going through tryouts and stuff this year for the respective teams at Blessed Trinity, he was throwing a bullpen. Who are you throwing it next to in trace?

[A]

Were you?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Amazing.

[B]

How, how lucky is he to be in such a world class program that Coach Wagner has built over at Buster Trinity that even as a freshman, just to kind of see that is really cool.

[A]

Well, and I want to touch on something which we didn't get into. You know, you kind of grew up in an interesting environment around like pro sports in general. Right. Your dad obviously played pro ball. But we, we don't want to forget the fact that your uncle is Cody Rhodes. Right. And your grandfather was Dusty Rhodes. And I'll clip some of these highlights in here. But like for anybody who doesn't know, I think Cody Rhodes is like the dude right now, right?

[B]

Yeah, he's a champ.

[A]

Champ. Did you ever think you were going to get into wrestling? Did he ever try to talk you into it?

[C]

Yeah, if the opportunity ever is there. Yeah, it'd be, that'd be fun.

[A]

I'll tell you what, I think you're going to have the size because at 15 you're six one. I would say you're probably closer to six two. How much do you weigh?

[C]

Like 180.

[A]

Yeah, that's pretty good at 15 years old. I'll take that. I'm not six two right now. I'm over 180. But yeah, yeah, that's kind of a cool environment to grow up in. Do you ever go to the, the matches?

[C]

Yeah, they're, they're really fun to watch.

[B]

Are they?

[A]

Yeah, it's gotta be interesting.

[B]

It's super interesting. Dusty was phenomenal, you know, to me as, as his son in law. Just, just watching him, he just loved his family. I mean he talk about being humble and grounded. Amazing guy, amazing talent. But I mean he set, set kind of such a great benchmark of what it meant to be a family man. And then I look at Cody, his uncle, I mean it's the same thing. And what I love about Cody's story, if you follow wrestling at all, is he had to walk away from the WWE for a few years because he, he felt that they weren't, they weren't properly using him the way he could be used.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he had to go out on his own, bet on himself, a huge risk, which he did. And he traveled the entire globe. You know, he went from wrestling in front of 60,000 people at a WrestleMania to wrestling in front of like five people at a small gym. But he bet on himself and now he came back at a much higher position and he talked about becoming undeniable. And I love that mindset. And his, his kind of tagline was undesirable to undeniable. And if you kind of keep that in the back of your mind too, I think as a baseball player or really any sport or Any endeavor in life, if you've got that in the back of your mind, and then you go out and do the work every day and you have a process and you have habits that say, hey, I'm going to be undeniable. So we take a lot of inspiration for him. And Cody's, like, the best guy in the world, too. Like, I can't imagine a better guy. And how he's handled himself at the highest stage. Been a great examp. And he's really gone above and beyond for his nieces and nephews and especially Kellen.

[A]

Incredible.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. What a great resource. And I imagine that world, I mean, like any pro sport, like, it's. It's mental. There's a mental piece to this. And the, like, the parallel for me is like, stepping away is almost like if you're at the height of the game in the big leagues and all of a sudden you're like, you know, yeah, I'm just going to step away. I don't feel like this. This best represents what I'm about, and you go do something else and then you find yourself winning the MVP award. Right. That's kind of where he's at. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely incredible.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Inspiration.

[B]

And then, you know, Teal, my wife, his mom, kind of grew up with that with her dad and her other brother Dustin. So she's been so grounded and been a great resource for. For him as well, and kind of understands what it all means from a big picture standpoint.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And what's really important in life, and that's faith. That's family. Yeah.

[A]

Shout out to Teal.

[B]

Yeah, she's the best.

[A]

She's involved in the foundation, too, I believe.

[B]

The Dusty Rhodes Foundation. That's right. Yep. Amazing. They're doing a lot of great stuff.

[A]

That's good. Fantastic. Well, pretty soon we'll be talking about the Kellen. Kellen Gurgle foundation or Kellen Rhodes. There you go. Or Kellen Rhodes the wrestler. Yeah, there we go. I appreciate you guys taking the time today. This was super helpful. Thank you.

[B]

Thank you for all that you're doing. I mean, I wish more people had the mindset you do, you know, and just the perspective you bring at the very highest level. I mean, you get it. You totally get it. And I'm excited about the impact that you're making.

[A]

Thank you, man.

[B]

Across the country. Yeah.

[C]

Awesome.

[B]

Cool.