The Ultimate Travel Baseball Guide (Part 2): The Hidden Truth of Travel Baseball

Summary

---

The Ultimate Travel Baseball Guide (Part 2): The Hidden Truth of Travel Baseball

Podcast: Most Valuable Agent with Matt Hannaford
Host: Matt Hannaford
Release Date: October 22, 2025

---

Episode Overview

This episode dives beneath the surface of the lucrative, fast-evolving world of travel baseball, shifting the focus from rankings, showcases, and scholarships to the more important, often overlooked subject: the human inside the player. Matt Hannaford brings together four unique voices—Craig Holman (former pro pitcher and parent), TJ Bruce (Long Beach State head coach), Derek Norris (former MLB All-Star), and Johan Martinez Kalilian (ontological coach)—to share hard-earned wisdom about youth development, parenting, coaching, and the real essence of growing through baseball.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Necessity of Genuine Self-Discovery (with Craig Holman)

• [03:18] Holman urges parents to let kids explore a broad range of interests, pointing out that athletic and career trajectories aren't always predictable, nor are they best dictated by adults.
  • “Throw it against the wall and see if it sticks. You may have a Justin Bieber on your hands right here.” — Craig Holman [03:56]
• He stresses the importance of honest feedback over false encouragement:
  • “Do you want me to lie to you and take your money week after week... or are you wanting me to be a good man?” — Craig Holman [04:43]
• Advocates for speaking belief into children early, regardless of current skill level:
  • “You’re gonna be an All American one day.” — Craig Holman [07:43]
  • Connects this to his faith: “Life and death is in the tongue... Speak goodness over your children.” — Craig Holman [08:23]
• The role of the parent is described as evolving from providing guidance to letting the child decide (around 15-16 years old).

2. The Changing Landscape of Parenting and Coaching (with TJ Bruce)

• [09:00] Bruce highlights the increasing transactional nature of amateur and college baseball, where winning tends to overshadow personal development.
  • “At the end of the day, our job is to develop men... Because life’s hard.” — TJ Bruce [09:20]
• He discusses the challenge of remaining authentic and value-driven in a system that prioritizes results.
• The host, Matt, echoes how easily values can be compromised in competitive environments:
  • “It’s very easy to put aside your values and to say, all right, who cares? I just need to win." — Matt Hannaford [10:36]
• Modern parenting is critiqued, noting a shift from engagement to reliance on digital distractions (i.e., tablets as "babysitters"):
  • “Parents utilize the Oculus... so they don’t have to parent because they choose not to... It’s become a super self-indulgent world.” — TJ Bruce [14:51]
• On the myth that "kids are changing," Bruce concludes,
  • “It’s the parenting that’s changing, it’s not the kids.” — TJ Bruce [14:41]
• He strongly opposes year-round specialization:
  • “I don’t believe in playing baseball 11 months a year. And that’s okay, I’m entitled to that.” — TJ Bruce [15:31]

Notable Exchange:

• On Distractions and Habits:
  • Matt Hannaford [17:26]: "There’s a lot more distractions today than there’s ever been. With those distractions comes the ability for a parent... if they don’t have the time."
  • The core is awareness: Are habits and opportunities parents provide actually building the young man they hope for?

3. The Realities of Professional Development and the Mental Game (with Derek Norris)

• [19:09] Norris shares an unfiltered look into why many high-potential, highly-paid prospects never succeed.
  • “A first round pick...that’s not a complete bust is going to get a big league opportunity...to justify them picking them high.” — Derek Norris [19:35]
• Organizational support is crucial: teams that lack strong development staff often set prospects up to fail.
• Uses the Dodgers as a model for strategic, systematic development.
• Breaks down the real mental challenges, especially for hitters:
  • “Baseball’s a mind game... If you don’t have somebody to simply guide you along that process... you don’t know if you’re left or right handed.” — Derek Norris [22:10]
• Coaches often focus on mechanics when performance dips, but Norris stresses the necessity of mental toughness and approach:
  • “If you get started on time and you swung at a good pitch, those two things are the only two things you control. Once it touches your bat, you no longer in control.” — Derek Norris [23:45]
• Chasing perfection is a trap:
  • "Simply that's not good enough. We're chasing a ghost. And because we can't have that is why we're so emphatic on perfectionism." — Derek Norris [23:35]
• The importance of process over results:
  • “When you chase hits, they avoid you.” — Derek Norris [25:59]

4. Releasing Parental Pressure and Rediscovering Joy (with Johan Martinez Kalilian)

• [29:11] Johan advocates for parents to disengage from living vicariously through their kids:
  • “Let them have their own dreams... Not to say you can’t invite them or introduce them to your sport, but let’s see if they love it.” — Johan Martinez Kalilian [29:12]
• The pressure valve must be released to protect joy:
  • Tells stories of telling elite prospects: "Just go out there and have fun. Release the pressure. Just go have a blast." — Matt Hannaford paraphrasing [29:41]
• The unintentional message many kids receive is that “your performance is more important than your personhood.” — Johan Martinez Kalilian [33:01]
• This results in a relationship dynamic where the child feels their parent’s approval fluctuates with results ("the car ride home" syndrome).
• Even among elite MLB or NBA players, the residue of this pressure remains:
  • “What they don’t see is the turmoil... when it’s not clicking... the story that they have about themselves when it’s not working right: Oh, I’m not good enough, I’m bad, I’m going to lose everything...” — Johan Martinez Kalilian [35:10]
• The ultimate message: Build identity and character over results, ironically enabling performance and resilience.

---

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• [03:56] “Throw it against the wall and see if it sticks. You may have a Justin Bieber on your hands right here.” — Craig Holman
• [09:20] “At the end of the day, our job is to develop men and develop them to fight the fight in the real world. That’s it. Because life’s hard.” — TJ Bruce
• [14:41] "As I’m raising four kids with my wife... It’s the parenting that’s changing, it’s not the kids." — TJ Bruce
• [22:10] “If you don’t have somebody to simply guide you along that process [in pro ball]... you don’t know if you’re left or right handed. Baseball’s a mind game.” — Derek Norris
• [25:59] “When you chase hits, they avoid you.” — Derek Norris
• [33:01] “We’re telling our kids, your performance is more important than your personhood.” — Johan Martinez Kalilian
• [35:10] “What they don’t see is the turmoil… when it’s not clicking… the story that they have about themselves when it’s not working right.” — Johan Martinez Kalilian

---

Important Timestamps & Segments

• [00:12]—Episode introduction and overview by Matt Hannaford
• [03:18]—Craig Holman’s philosophy: “Throw it against the wall and see if it sticks”
• [08:40]—Holman on speaking belief into children and the power of parental words
• [09:00]—TJ Bruce on coaching for character vs. winning
• [14:41]—Discussion on how parenting—and not kids—has changed
• [19:09]—Derek Norris on why high draft picks sometimes fail and MLB organizational philosophies
• [22:10]—Norris gets into the mental aspects of hitting and coping with failure
• [25:59]—On process over results: “When you chase hits, they avoid you.”
• [29:11]—Johan Martinez Kalilian: releasing parental pressure and the joy of the game
• [33:01]—Discussing how performance-based parenting affects identity
• [35:10]—Long-term impacts of pressure on elite athletes’ mental health

---

Conclusion

The episode threads together compelling stories and perspectives to challenge what success truly looks like in youth baseball. It cautions parents and coaches against letting ambition and external metrics eclipse the fundamental goal: raising healthy, authentic humans who find genuine joy and resilience through the game. Listeners are urged to champion belief, balance, self-discovery, and integrity, reshaping what the "Ultimate Travel Baseball Guide" should mean for families and the next generation of ballplayers.

---

Transcript

[A]

All right, guys, so last time, in part one of the Ultimate Travel Baseball Guide, we pulled back the curtain on this $40 billion world of youth and travel baseball, right? A landscape that's changed, honestly, faster than most families can keep up with. And we asked some really hard questions, right? We asked, where's it all headed? What's this all really for? But in part two, we're going to go even deeper, because beneath all those showcases, beneath the rankings, the recruiting calendars, there is something far more important that too often gets lost, and that is the human inside the player. Okay, so today you're going to hear from some pretty incredible voices. Four guys, each with a perspective that, when you really listen to what they say, connects to something much larger than. Than baseball itself. You're going to hear from Craig Holman, a former pro pitcher and father of a 2024 draft pick. Now, he's going to remind us that before we start chasing excellence, we have to let our kids discover what they actually love. He shares how belief, real belief, the kind that's spoken into a child's identity, can shape who they become long before anyone knows if they're any good. And the example that he uses is how he used to reinforce to his young son and daughter well before they knew how good they were, that they were going to be all Americans one day. Then we're going to talk to TJ Bruce. Now, TJ Is the head baseball coach at Long Beach State. He joins me to talk about what it means to raise not just athletes, but men. We're going to dig deep into how parenting and coaching have changed over the years, how technology unfortunately, has crept in to really every corner of a kid's life, and how that shift is quietly rewriting habits, disciplines, and accountability. And you, the parent, may think it only applies to things that are happening at home. It actually does apply to things that are happening at the baseball field as well, and the habits that ultimately lead to success or failure. Next, we're going to sit down with Derek Norris. He's a former all Star, former client who's seen the game from both sides. We're going to talk about the business behind the dream, what money really means in professional baseball, how development works once the lights of travel, baseball fade, and how the mental side of hitting, funny enough, can define a career far more than mechanics ever will. And then finally, we're going to talk to Johan Martinez Kalilian. Now, Joe is an ontological coach, so he studies an athlete's way of being okay. And he is going to challenge parents to Release the pressure valve to stop living through their kids achievements and instead protect the joy that drew them to the game in the first place. He's going to make you think about how easily our good intentions as parents, the tough love. Right. Can send the wrong message to the player. That performance is more important than their personhood. So whether you're a parent, whether you're a player, whether you're a coach yourself, this episode is your reminder that development isn't just about velocity. It's not just about rankings or exposure. It's about belief, true belief, balance, and the courage to build something far deeper. Okay, this is the ultimate travel baseball guide part two. So let's dive in.

[B]

There's a kid out there right now that could throw a hundred that never ever picked up a baseball. I don't know if it's fair or it's horrible or what, but it happens. What parents need to do is expose their kids to about 10 different things. If, and I was, if you talk to any parent that came to my place, they'd say, man, Craig, we love him, but God, he's so forward and sometimes rude. I had little Jimmy come in 14 and go through a camp and they'd say, hey, he's wanting to get into baseball and blah, blah, blah. I'm like, it's too late. I would say that he's too late. He's 14, he can't catch, you can barely throw and you want to put him in a travel organization. And I would go to Jimmy and I'd say, what do you like to do? Love computers. I like to sing. Can you sing? Yes. You know what he does? He sings at church. He sounds good. Be a professional singer. Put in hours of work and be a singer. So we're going to chase the baseball dream for six years. You're not going anywhere. And you could have spent that time playing a piano, a guitar, and maybe made millions as a singer. God did not make all of us the same and we need to focus. So I tell parents, throw it against the wall. Throw it against the wall and see if it sticks. You may have a Justin Bieber on your hands right here. 12 and you're in here yelling at him because he can't catch, he can't throw and he can't hit. And I would say I can throw him a hundred balls, he can't hit his hand. Eye coordination is not good enough. Well, that's rude. Do you want me to lie to you and take your money week after week after week or are you wanting me to be a good man. And that's what I really pride myself on. It's being a good man and being honest with parents.

[A]

One of the things that families don't maybe pay enough attention to is the skill of listening to their son. Right. And it's, it's a little bit of what you just said where if, if parents can be more hypersensitive to, okay, I know what I want for him. And by the way, I, I say this fully acknowledging every parent that I've ever come across in travel, baseball, everybody wants what's best for their son. They're not doing it because they know they don't want it. My point in saying listen is you'll hear from them whether they have what you're describing, which is, are they going to be willing when everyone else is playing video games, when all of his other buddies are going to go out and do other things, are they going to be willing to say no to that stuff and instead do the little things that is going to be required to make this a career? And that's crazy to say because if we're talking about a kid who's 10 years old, how do they even know? They don't. And so recognize this isn't something that you're going to figure out at 8, 9, 10. It's going to be something that is going to develop over time. And I think a lot of these families can just take a step back, let it develop and use the resources and use the desire that you have to make sure that he has all the opportunities. But first, just sit back and test it a little bit. Does he want this? Ask him the questions. Put them out there. Right.

[B]

What do you love? What do you like to do? And I'll be honest with you, A kid at 10 made love to do one thing, and at 14, he hates that now and loves to do another. I hated tomatoes at 8 years old. My dad tried to give them to me on a sandwich. And at 16, I was eating tomato sandwiches with my father, and I was like, I can't believe I didn't like this at 8, 10 years old. So I really tell parents, and he doesn't know what he wants. He doesn't know what he likes. She has no idea what she wants to do. They need guidance, and they need guidance up to about 15 or 16 years old. And then they need to sit down and say, what do you want to do? You're very athletic. You can play three sports. That's what I do with my daughter, is she could really do Anything. And ended up. She loved basketball and softball. And I said, where do you want to go? And she said, I think I want to play softball in college.

[C]

So.

[B]

So then that was her junior year and we started focusing on calling around and she went on to. I used to tell. I don't think I said this the last time because my wife always said ex wife now, but we've been divorced seven years. Best friend, by the way. I don't want anybody to think, oh, it's terrible. She's one of my best friends now. I used to walk around to the kids when they were like 7 and Luke was 7, Jordan was 9. And I would say, you're going to be an All American one day. You're going to be an All American. I tell Luke, he'd say, really? I was an All American in Jacksonville State, had this big thing on the wall, and I went into the hall of Fame, and it was on a night in a nice room, and they would stand there and look at the photo of me and it was, it said, converse All American, Craig Holman, first team picture. And they thought that was great. And I said, you're gonna be an All American one day. And Luke would say, yeah, really? I'm like, absolutely. And Jordan would say, am I going to be an All American? That's absolutely. Both of you guys are going to be all Americans at 7 and 9. I said it, not making this up because you can call my ex wife. She'd say, yeah, I called him an idiot. I did. Every week I'd say, come here, All American. You're gonna be all American one day. And I continue to speak it.

[C]

Now.

[B]

This is where my Christianity comes in. Life and death is in the tongue. And I tell people that all the time, don't speak ill will on yourself. So if you're a parent out there and if I can look in the camera and I can see if you're a parent, speak goodness over your children.

[A]

When you coach and you actually have know you've gone on your journey. When you think about coaching these guys, how much are you aware of? Like, I am, I am wanting to pour into these people as men. Like, how do you balance the whole. I want to develop a human and I want to win. How do you develop or how do you balance that?

[D]

I think it's hard. I think. I think it's hard in today's world where it's super transactional. I mean, that's, it's really all about winning, right? The, the, the industry tells you that. Now, unfortunately, the reality of life is telling you that you're judged on winning the losses in our industry quite a bit, way more now than ever. But I also. I think there has to go back to being a process about this thing. And I think what. What you were saying earlier is, at the end of the day, our job is to develop men and develop them to fight the fight in the real world. That's it. Because life's hard. Life is not easy. Winning college baseball games is not easy. But that has to stay at the forefront of what we're trying to do. And I think a lot of people do it a lot of different ways. Some people build trust early on, and they. They just give away their trust, per se, right away. Some people, you know, forge it through going through adversity. I'm probably one of those guys that likes to go through the adversity on the field to gain and earn, you know, gain their trust and they earn mine. But it's. It's a really hard balance. And. And I will say this, I think it's even more difficult if you're not super aware of who you are and who you want to be. As we were talking off the air about putting parameters on yourself. And I think the minute you do that, you're going to have an internal slash spiritual struggle with yourself, and people end up seeing right through that.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I can tell you, just as an agent who's worked at different companies, who has experienced that, you know, this isn't the place for me. You know, what this company is calling me to be is not what I stand for. It's not what I represent. It's not what I want to be associated with. And so I can see how, in a cutthroat world, in business of college baseball, it's very easy to put aside your values and to say, all right, who cares? I just need to win. Because if I win, it'll take care of itself. And that's something that I. I do think is rare to have a coach who isn't just somebody who talks about that, but actually, like, does it. And again, like, I would vouch for who you are as a human being. I've made that clear. And. And this is like, almost a message for the parents, because having talked to these parents and actually hearing them describe what they want for their son, you represent a lot of those things. Now, there's a challenge in your position when, you know, we're in a new college baseball world, right? We got the transfer portal, we've got nil you know, I was sharing with you. I was at, you know, Fullerton, and I'm looking at, you know, I've had many guys that went to Fullerton, you know, Kurt Suzuki, J.D. davis, and these guys have won, they've won College World Series, they've won the, all the awards. And I'm looking at their stadium and I'm seeing all the championships on the, on their, on their, the side of the building. And I'm thinking to myself, how does a program like this survive in today's college day and age? And I wish I knew specifically what the answer was, but what. Where my mind and where my heart goes is just, you have to pour into the kids. If you can pour into the kids, there is going to be somebody who figures out how to be an attractive program in this world that nobody sees coming right now. And so where I go. And again, I'm partially biased because I love you. And I went to Long Beach State too. So it's like, I would love it to be this program, but I do believe it's like you're gonna be challenged on. Are you committed to that? And there's gonna be an opportunity to be committed to it and to show everybody you're real. But there's also an opportunity to be like, ah, maybe it's easier if I just, you know, do what everyone else is doing and just try to go grab the quick, the quick fix.

[E]

Right?

[D]

Yeah, well, I think too, like on that one too. I think the challenge there is there. There's a few different ones. It's like, okay, if I can be myself and I can really buy into that and buy into what I believe in, there's going to be the, the half, the third of them aren't going to like that because it's too challenging. Right? I think you're. I think, I think the battle right now with the college coach, in my opinion, I, I don't even think this is college coach thing. I think this is a professional thing in any, in any room that you're in or business. I think the battle is, is who are you off the field or outside the office and who are you inside the office? Slash on the field. Because if those two aren't aligned and. Or married, then you're going to have a really hard time. But I also think what you said earlier, right? If people want to be developed as a man, if they want to their kids to be held accountable, be responsible, be disciplined, have integrity, then they're gonna come. Then they're gonna come. My plug would be they're gonna come to Long Beach State, right? Because I do all that and I do all that in a lot of different ways. And our staff does that in a lot of different ways. But here's the, the thing. They say they want that until they don't. You know, so all of a sudden it's like, yeah, I want my son to be coached. That's the one thing we hear all the time. Well, we coach. Right. A lot of schools coach until it doesn't fit your narrative. Then all of a sudden you're, you're disappointed and you don't like it. That's really the struggle because we hear all the time that kids are changing. Yeah, maybe, maybe so. But I don't know if the kids are changing. As I'm raising four kids with my wife. It's the parenting that's changing, it's not the kids.

[A]

So let's talk about that. What, give me. How do you think it's changing?

[D]

Perfect example is we, you know, we, right, weren't raised in a time where we had iPhones and tablets and Oculuses and computer stations with games and all this stuff. Well, now what parents are doing, they're using those. Our parents had to parent. I feel like, I feel like our parents were involved in just about our day to day life with the exception of certain circumstances or we played outside and the neighborhood slash community raised us. Yeah, I don't know if that's true anymore. I think parents utilize the Oculus, the indoor gaming systems to use as a babysitter. So they don't have to parent because they choose not to. Because they want to be on Instagram and Twitter and do all the things to satisfy their needs too. I think it's become, actually in all, I think it's become a super self, self indulgent world that we're living in. Society's that way. I think you're seeing it from any sports perspective, Right. Why are parents pushing their kids to do, to play year round sports, which I don't believe in. I don't, I don't believe in it. I don't believe in playing baseball 11 months a year. And that's okay, I'm entitled to that. But why are they doing. Are they doing it for the kid? Are they doing it for themselves to make them feel good, to relive their glory and. Or the glory that they didn't get? Yeah, like why are we doing that?

[A]

So to your first point about parents using this as a, as a crutch, right? So they don't have to parent. Here's what I will say because it's not that I disagree with that. I think there's a lot of truth in what you're saying. I would say it's all relative to the time that we're in. So as I think about our childhood, what did we have that also was a crutch? The television. Right. And so if you compare us as kids to our parents when they were kids, okay, granted they still had tv. It wasn't as prevalent, it wasn't in color. Right. But even like the grandparents, how is it for them? So I think every generation is going to say the same things that you're saying. And there's. But there's a lot of truth. The reality is there's a lot more distractions today than there's ever been. With those distractions come the ability for a parent if they don't have the time. Because I think another component to this too is everything can be good up until a certain point. Right. Having access to a tablet could be used as a positive thing.

[D]

Yes, very.

[A]

But only if it doesn't turn into we're at dinner and every single day now the kid's like, hey, let me get my tablet, I want to play this game. And we all know those kids, right? Like hang out with some buddies and we go to the pool at the club and the kids always on his tablet and playing a game. Like he can't even communicate with an adult. And so that parent may say, well, look, I'm doing this because I want to visit with my friends, totally fine. But when it becomes a habit for that kid not to feel comfortable communicating with, with older people or whomever, naturally where I go is, all right, well there's going to be some, some issue down the road that is going to stem from his inability to like communicate like that. So to your point, I think what makes sense is it's the awareness of it. It's like, okay, for all these parents who are listening to this, I don't believe it's like there's no right or wrong. That's for you to figure out. But be mindful as you kind of enter this travel, baseball, youth baseball, college baseball space and ask yourself, what is my goal for my son? If their goal for their son is to raise a well mannered, hard working, successful man, are the things that you're doing with these distractions helping him do that or are they taking away. I'm assuming that you saw plenty of guys in the minor leagues and even in the big Leagues who, you know, maybe were bonus babies, got drafted high and didn't make it.

[C]

Oh, God, yeah.

[A]

What do you think it was about those guys without naming names, but what was it about? What they lacked that in pro ball, it's not going to reward. Just like here's a reality when you sign for a lot of money, what it does is it, it guarantees that you're going to get opportunity, but what it's not going to do is guarantee that the money is going to always be more important than the result.

[C]

I think to an extent, I think for the most part, a first round pick that's not a complete bust is going to get a big league opportunity to justify them picking them high, especially a top 10 pick.

[A]

And so let's talk about why. So obviously general manager involved in that pick, scouting director involved in that pick, a lot of money invested. So if this guy doesn't make it, the general manager, the scouting director, that's a miss.

[C]

I think it's, it's an ego thing for sure that I don't even know.

[A]

If it's ego as much as that's a miss. So it's not that I am going to make decisions like here's the reality. I don't think they're like, we're going to ignore the result and guarantee he's going to get to the big leagues, but we gave this guy 5 million bucks. We have to do everything in our power to give him the chance to get.

[C]

But collectively they gave so much more to the rest of the draft that if they don't make it, they don't think anything of it. But simply because it's a first round pick or whatever the circumstance.

[A]

Yeah, there's just more attention.

[C]

Five millions pennies on the dollar compared to what you're paying in your, in your.

[A]

Yeah. The rest of the bonus pool.

[C]

Yeah. And not only that, but where you're paying your big league team like $5 million is a bench player.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

That comes off the bench. So it's like I, I think for me, they take so much pride in their draft that I don't think they do. The amount of due diligence when they recruit, when they scout these guys, if you're not having the people set in stone to develop them, then you're just simply leading this kid into an abyss because he's never failed before. When he fails, there's certain teams that do it well. For instance, the Dodgers, outfielders, pitchers and catchers are three things they develop in the Meyer leagues. Emphatically that they Take the excess in those prospects and trade for the positions that they don't develop. Well, they only draft pitchers, outfielders and catchers. They don't even waste their time unless it's a bonafide, can't miss like a Corey Seeger or something like that. They'll go out and trade for Trey Turner, Manny Machado. They've done it for years. That why many people don't do that. More like it's not that there's people that have a heavy impact on collectively, a whole minor league system's tough to teach how to hit that some people get exposed because the jump from amateur high school baseball to professional is a massive jump that you go from 80 poo to 98 with a breaker that you've never, never seen that before. If you don't have somebody to simply guide you along that process, psychologically, they're physically able to do these things. I mean, it's not that a guy couldn't hit a breaking ball. He couldn't psychologically think fastball, react to the breaking ball because he couldn't stop thinking about the breaking ball. And then he let the heater go. Like now he's starting to spiral and if no one's there to catch you and develop you before too long, you don't know if you're left or right handed. Right. You see it happen with baseball more than anything because it's a mind game. One day you wake up and you feel like you're swinging a sword and you just went four for four the night before. And it just plays mind games with you that if you don't have somebody be like, hey dude, your swing is fine. Stop hitting so much in the cage. Change your mindset. But it's all about your mitts. Everyone says it's 99% mental. It's true that your swing doesn't change throughout the course of the season. That we try and think, oh, I missed that pitch because my mechanics, no, it's just timing. When he's throwing 100 miles an hour and you're trying to time them up with two round pieces, it makes sense as to why it's difficult. Like we get so carried away with our mechanics of our swing, which because it's controllable, right. We have our time and place for those things, but those muscle patterns are going to be there that if you move your hands half an inch, it feels like you moved a foot.

[A]

Well, think about this. So as a hitter, all baseball players, you guys are competitive. So if you're a hitter and you're going up to the plate, you could take a really good swing on a pitch, you could strike out, you could fly out, ground out, whatever. You could also hit a homer. But let's assume you get out. It's so easy as a competitor to.

[C]

Be like, I failed every out we make full knowing 3 out of 10 times we're in the hall of Fame.

[A]

Right.

[C]

We all know that going in.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Simply that's not good enough. We're chasing a ghost. And because we can't have that is why we're so emphatic on perfectionism. You know that if, if we went 3 for 10, we're not happy. But yet we're in the hall of Fame. If we reach that in a career aspect of things that if we roll over one fastball, you can't stop thinking about it for three days. Like we simply, like that's what we get caught up in. That's what part of it is, is like I learned after I was done playing that there's, there's, there's two controllable variables that you can control in a game of baseball. If you're on, if you get started on time and you swung at a good pitch, those two things are the only two things you control. Once it touches your bat, you no longer in control of where it goes. And I wish I knew that when I played because my life would have, I would have destroyed less bat racks and things that would drove me nuts for weeks, that kept me in slumps that I simply like, where did my swing go? I'm working on my swing in the cage. It feels good. Why doesn't it translate? It was here, not here. And those things I try and teach is that we calibrate our swing all winter long. You just have to go out and trust it that we focus on more narrow minded things like timing approach what we're looking for, picking up on patterns, thinking the game of baseball and not guessing the game of baseball. You know, because once you start thinking where are my hands? Where the strike three is already there. Yeah. And those things I try instill on most of my guys, like sometimes we do mechanical things that are wrong and that's simply just to talk you off the ledge so you can go to sleep at night.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Well, I think the, the thing that most players do with the bat is if something is happening negatively at the plate, meaning I get out for a repeated period of time, it has to be mechanic.

[C]

We have to blame it on something.

[A]

We need to control it.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Right. We, there's got to be something I can do to fix this.

[C]

Saying that I just wasn't on time is acceptance. We don't want to accept failure. No matter the circumstance that we fail 7 out of 10 times, we're really good, you know? And that part, I think is difficult to accept. No different than golf. You can do everything right and still duck, hook it into the crap just depending on one degree of change. And baseball's. I think, because we know we can't reach it, we want it more. And trying to look at specifically on the hitting side. If we start calibrating our brains to looking at success and unsuccessful based upon two variables. We stop chasing hits. And when you chase hits, they avoid you.

[A]

Right. So instead. Okay, let's look at these two variables. Was I on time? No, I was not. Right. Okay, well, if I wasn't on time, then why would I expect that I was going to square this ball up?

[C]

Exactly. That you. When your brain recognizes that ball's getting on you, we make physical moves to try and manipulate the barrel to get to the baseball. That if we can justify it as you're one for one. If you swung at a good pitch and we were on time, we're one for one. Keep in a notebook. And at the end of the day, you're gonna feel a whole lot better about your at bats. And I think in the end, you're gonna like where you're at statistically, too.

[A]

Do you have your hitters? Because I know you work for some pro guys. Do you have them for, like, every at bat? Answer the question. Like, yes, I was on time. Yes, I swung at a good pitch.

[C]

I would really love for them to. When we get. When we really get down to when we get into, like, little funks because no one reaches out when they're scorching hot, ripping the core, you know, the core off the baseball. Cause I mean, hey, how'd you like that swing today? Like. Yeah. What was there to say about a good swing?

[A]

Sure.

[C]

I mean, we only want to nitpick when we don't do things right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When they feel lost.

[C]

Right. And everyone's guilty of it. That if. If something doesn't feel right or we don't have success, we ultimately think we have to work harder towards something. When truthfully. Yeah. You just want a bad pitch dude. Or, hey, he got nasty on you. I don't know who could hit that pitch. That accepting that is just beneath you whenever you're in that competitive mode. That I was the same way that as I got older and I started, you know, thinking about the game a little bit differently and more of a bird's eye view and truly looking back on different things that truly mattered. When I had success, where was my success? Well, we calibrated or swing off of a tee for a reason. We're calibrating the exact same swing to hit mistakes. We hit mistakes. Who's a bad ball hitter in the big leagues is Ohtani? Does he hit it off the ground and at his face? No, he hits the stuff that's right in the middle of the plate. And the elite of the elite don't miss them. You know why they don't miss them? Because they're on time. That understanding that there are more gifted players than others with strength, leverage, size, all the above, bat speed. O', Neal, Cruz and me right now are not going to have the same batting average if we went out there and we were both on time.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

That there are genetic freaks. But also to understand that no matter how genetically blessed they are, they also don't have the understanding of what we're trying to learn here. Because we don't have that. We have to learn other things to try. And then that's the way I had to play. Because I didn't have an absolute rocket for an arm. I couldn't hit things into a popcorn bucket in the upper deck. Like I had to find these fine tuned things to think about the game differently, study scouting reports, different things that my perspective on how the game was for me. I had to do those things to stay up there with the 6 foot 4 donkey power hitting guys. Because on my best day I hit the fifth row right for someone that paid high money for those seats. So I think that's part of the reason why I look at it the way I do is like you don't have to be genetically blessed to be successful at this game. At any given moment, the worst player can defeat the best player.

[E]

Instead of living your unlived dreams through your kids, let them have their own dreams. Now that's not to say that you can't invite them or introduce them to your sport, but let's see if, let's see if they love it, let's see if they gravitate towards it and again, if they do like I did, okay, create a space where that kid can flourish and you're not forcing them to grow on your timeline. Because that's the thing that I think creates attention and it takes the love out of the game. And, and you and I have talked about it quite a bit where it's like sometimes you're literally. I feel like within the last month, you probably told me three or four stories about this where you're literally talking to one of your guys and saying, just go out there and have fun. How about this? Release the pressure. Just go have a blast. Which, again, to me is a very fatherly thing to say, you know, because I think underneath it is, I love you for who you are. You don't have to prove anything, but go have fun, you know? And that message, I think, is lost. Part of it is that thing of, like, these dads are. Are thinking, this kid in front of me, he's gonna do the thing that I couldn't do. And maybe that's worth it.

[A]

What? Where I. And I've always wondered this. I do believe that the passion that your dad had and, like, the joy he experienced when you played the game, I do believe, like, what a beautiful thing. I'm sure he was, like, never had more fun. Love sharing the game with you. Like, it all came from this amazing place. You know what I'd be curious about is, as you were going through this at, you know, eight years old, what. What part of it was it, like, this is not fun anymore because, like. And I'll share my experience after. But I think a lot of kids and a lot of parents watching this, I'm sure this is going to resonate. They think that I know how good you are. I've seen you be so good. But you're not right now. So it's. I don't know if you know, especially at 8, like, if it's like, you're gonna. You need to do this so you can live out this un, Unfulfilled dream that I wasn't able to. I think it's more about, like, I. I see something in you that is so special. If I don't tell you to do this, no one else in the world is going to help you do this. I'm the only one that can. And so what I'm wondering is, as you were going through this and you kind of had this first realization. What. What stands out is like, oh, man. Like, there's this moment.

[E]

Yeah. It's funny because I feel like, like I said, I'm talking about this for the first time, you know, Even though I've had this story in my head, I'm kind of know, putting words and pictures and ideas next to it in a way that I never have before. But I think the first part of it no longer being fun was now it felt like, and again, I can feel some emotion coming up. It felt like my relationship with my dad was dependent on my performance.

[A]

That's the car ride home thing that everybody talks about. Yeah, I had a good game. Everything's fine. I have a bad game. And it's like, yeah, as a kid, you're just envisioning, like, I don't want to get in the car with my dad because it's just going to be this, like, it's going to be uncomfortable, this blow up. And I've disappointed the one person in the world that I don't ever want to disappoint.

[E]

Yeah. And again, my dad didn't mean this. And I think every dad in the world does not mean this. But whether we know it or not, we're telling our kids, your performance is more important than your personhood.

[A]

That's what they're receiving.

[E]

Yeah. And it's, it's this thing because again, I think in the mind of a dad, they're saying to themselves, like, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm. I'm demanding excellence. And like, I want to pull out the best in them. But. But what? There's maybe, whether it be overtly or subtly or whatever, communicating is. What matters most about you is the results instead. And, and again, you know, we've talked about this plenty of times. Like, a lot of times my work is undoing all that is helping them unlearn the results have nothing to do with your identity. Just let it be data and information. But they've had so many years of that type of interaction that now what lives in their bones is, I don't know who I am when I'm not getting results. It's like, who am I?

[A]

Okay, so I'm gonna pause there because for anybody who's listening, I want them to understand and, like, see the connection. I, I'm. I can totally see a dad being like, really, guys, Come on. You guys are just being too sensitive. Like, this is ridiculous. No, that's. Yeah. Have I been hard on my son? Sure. But, like, my son is now in the big leagues, and it was being hard on him that that's what helped him get to the big leagues. You obviously deal with a lot of major league players, a lot of NBA guys, and many other sports without getting into specifics on whether it's an NBA guy, baseball guy, whomever, connect it to the effects that it has on the professional player who. And again, speaking specifically for the dad who's like, my son's in the big leagues, like, If I didn't do this, he wouldn't have gotten there. What are the. What are the residual effects, though, that still exist even in the best case scenario where your son is like an All Star?

[E]

Yeah. I mean, part of it, to me, what sticks out is the. The first thing is, hey, what if actually, the way that you coached him or taught him, and you think, you believe that's what got him there, but what if that isn't first of all? Because what if he. He did that in spite of you?

[A]

That resonates with me.

[E]

You know what I'm saying?

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

Like, what if he would actually gotten farther if you had a different approach? What if he'd be greater? So, you know what I mean? Like, this is where I don't think any parent can say factually, it's because I did this that I think we would want to. Yeah, yeah. I think we want to tell ourselves that. But also, what. What they don't see is the turmoil, the inner turmoil that I see these guys go through when it's not clicking, it's not working, and then the story that they have about themselves when it's not working right. Oh, like, I'm. I'm not good enough. I'm bad. Oh, I'm gonna lose everything. And then who am I if I don't have. And what happens if the money's gone? And what. But as a dad, if we say, hey, I'm gonna speak to who you are, because none of that stuff really matters. Your identity matters most. Our relationship matters most. Your character matters most. So let's invest in that first, because if we can build that up, you can crush anything.