← Most Valuable Agent with Matt Hannaford
Most Valuable Agent with Matt Hannaford
Train Your Brain for the Big Leagues: Mastering Mental Execution in Travel Baseball
01:04:49
What if your biggest opponent isn’t across the field but inside your mind? In this powerful episode, mental performance advisor Danielle Martin shares how mastering the mental game in baseball can transform not just your performance but your life....
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- [00:13]
A
So today we're talking to a very special guest, somebody who we have been trying to have this podcast for no less than six months, maybe even longer. You're somebody who I was connected to, oh, a decent time ago. And so getting to know you over the years and really seeing your work product, I want to make sure that I kind of level set so everybody understands. So you are somebody who helps athletes. What I would say, like, with the mental side of the game. I think that phrase, that term, the role is thrown around so much, and it leaves people feeling like, oh, I know what those people do. They do this one specific thing. And what I've realized as I've gotten into this space and spoken to many different types of. Whether it's coaches. I know you kind of refer to yourself more as, like, an advisor.
- [01:02]
B
You.
- [01:03]
A
And I don't know if studied is the right word, but you. Your company is called True Mindset. It was birthed out of your interest in. I know Ken Revizza was somebody who you've really followed and enjoyed learning from over the years. When he was alive, he was somebody who, in junior college, he came to my program and blew my mind with his work. So he's somebody that I cannot speak more highly of. Talk a little bit about your mindset and really what your intention is with it, if you would.
- [01:35]
B
Thank you. Ken Reviza really was awesome. I can say the same that you just said, is he blew my mind, too. I had him at ucla. I had hired him for dirt bike racing, equestrian, motocross. I saw him out at the motocross park with pro motocross guys. I saw Ken pop up in the wildest places.
- [01:57]
A
Yeah.
- [01:57]
B
Working with some of the most tremendous athletes. So he really blew my mind, and really, his ability to connect with people. And so when I got started to get into this, I contacted Ken, and he was really supportive. And I just think the. The main thing that inspired me about him was just his ability to really. I felt like. I don't know that if he ever said it like this, but you would speak to Ken and he would listen to you. But I felt like he heard me. There's listening and there's hearing completely.
- [02:29]
A
And I mean, yeah, in your role, I can't think of a more valuable skill. Right. Than being somebody who isn't so dead set on, like, okay, listen, uh, here's a book. I'm gonna teach you these 10 things, and when you learn the 10 things, the thing that you want, the success, it's gonna happen, right? Like, it's it's really important that you give these guys more than anything, a reminder that, look, I'm here. Let's have a conversation. Right? Like, tell me about what are you going through? And it's. It's prescriptive in a way, like you're telling them advice based on what they're saying, not based on any preconceived notion that you have about athletes in general. Right. So I do want everybody to kind of understand where this is coming from for you, because you were an athlete at, I would say, like, the highest level. So you. Yeah. You played college softball at ucla. You are a black belt in jiu jitsu. Right. You were a dirt bike racer. What else did you do that I am not naming right now? Because I know there's more.
- [03:30]
B
When I completed high school, the very next day, I went professional in surfing. And I did that for a lot of years. Wow. Yeah. I was a pro surfer for how many years? A lot of years. I was top amateur through high school. And then basically I was the first female on the COVID of Surfing magazine.
- [03:50]
A
What I love about this, too. So I recently did a podcast, which everybody's probably seeing right now, funny enough, because I just aired it with Michael Garciapara, who's. He runs a. I don't call it a travel ball team. He refers to it as a college development program and pro development program. But he's also an area scout for the St. Louis Cardinals. And one of the things he spoke about in this interview is, you know, how especially the game of baseball, like, they need athletes, and oftentimes you develop that athleticism at a young age by playing multiple sports. Right. In his case, it was soccer, it was track, it was football, and it was baseball. And in your case, it was all of these things. So I'm really curious, do you think that you would have been as successful as you were in call it softball if you hadn't done some of these other things? Or surfing if you hadn't done some of these other things?
- [04:41]
B
I don't know. Softball was a very different game than baseball, which I played growing up. Yeah, I played baseball. I played Little League. I was the only little girl. I love this Little League. And I was a center fielder, outfielder, and pitcher. And then I played one year of high school baseball and then kind of had to play softball. And so after college, I went pro and surfing. I was doing that and working in television for three years, then went back to ucla. And that was an interesting story, just getting back into ucla. So, no, I think that all the sports kind of tie together and you learn, you absorb. I feel like these formulas of how to win and the how to piece is what really plays out in my philosophy. My philosophy within the mental performance space. I'm not clinically trained, of course, I've read tons of books. I'm a neuroscience geek. Really?
- [05:39]
A
Yeah. You almost have to be, right.
- [05:41]
B
Yeah. Yeah, you do. If you're really interested in how to minimize misses and maximize and. And understand the frames, our frames of perspective and how we see how we view things. And the how piece is the main piece, I think for the success within a mental performance space. From my perspective, working with an athlete, you said a couple things. Do I help? I support. I don't think I would have received, hey, do you need some help at that young age, even as an athlete at the levels that I was at, I think we all think we're beyond help. And some of us get caught thinking. We get stuck. Actually not caught, but stuck thinking, I need to figure this out. I can't take help. So I really don't see that I help. I am great at support and athletes wanting something in a sport. You know, I don't think looking at the game of baseball that baseball cares what we want. It doesn't care about our feelings or what we want. But baseball has requirements and needs. And when we look at what do I need to do and being great is. Comes down to because everybody has so much talent, is what is someone willing to do to do based on what they need to do as it pertains to their job within that game or in that sport. So meeting athletes where they are is what I aim to do. That's really my intention. When I have an athlete come to me, I do tell them right away, I'm just here to support you. Obviously, they've got themselves to a certain level. And you know, for pro athletes, a lot of the pro guys sometimes, especially in the minor leagues, will get. Get there and they start listening to all the other coaches and all these, taking all these pieces and they forgot what they themselves did to get there. And so to get them to that place and support them back to that place of trusting their own skills, their talents, but also being open to learning what is it going to take from this point forward to not only get to where I want to go, but where I need to go and what do I need to do, what am I willing to do to get there as it pertains to their job. So getting in there and hearing them, meeting them where they are and Then simplifying the chaos of whether it's the environment or just the game. I usually have no idea which one it will be at the time that I sit down with them.
- [08:24]
A
Yeah. So what I think is really valuable for all the athletes to hear, and this will probably ring true. I'm hoping it'll ring true for them. They go into this sport at the highest level professionally, and everybody looks at them as though they're. And you've talked about this on your website like they're robots, right?
- [08:45]
B
At times, yes.
- [08:46]
A
They're these guys that, like, they do this thing well. And if, you know, if we give them more coaches, then that output is going to equal the amount of help that we've given them. And they. It's almost like a formula, in a sense. And I think one of the things that a lot of players experience is, yeah, but I'm like, I'm a human being, right? With attitudes and motivations and personality and work ethic. And what I know that you have helped these. These people realize is when they go through this stuff. And this is why I love that what you're talking about, the support thing, is oftentimes I feel like that's the one thing they don't feel like they get from other people, especially in organizations, is the organization may think we're supporting you, but if you look at what happens, it's actually the opposite. Right. It makes them feel like we have none. And so how do you help support when you get a guy who, let's just say, signs out of high school, who gets into professional baseball, and then realizes at that point, okay, wait a second. I thought this was gonna be not easier because I think everybody knows that it's gonna be a difficult road. But I thought I had the talent just naturally to see myself flourish. Now I'm realizing I'm hitting a wall, right? I don't have the tools, and I don't mean physical tools, the mental tools right now to get to where I wanna go. Help us understand, like, what are, you know, my. My listener is high school player or a parent saying, I want to know how. Like, what are the three things that I could be aware of for my son that maybe I can help speak to him about now so that when he gets into that space, he's a little bit more prepared than he otherwise would be.
- [10:36]
B
Number one, the fact that you will need support. You cannot do it alone. And they didn't do it alone. Getting up to that point, at some point somewhere there was support. And also being open to the fact that we don't know what we don't know and the environment is ruthless, just as ruthless as the game. So am I organized? What does that look like? What does that mean at that level? What does my preparation look like? What's my approach? Do I even have one? Am I clear on what my job is? My execution, game plan? I teach them a lot of breathing techniques that help support the nervous system. They actually can control their nervous system. They can get it from the sympathetic, which is that fight or flight, to the parasympathetic, which is the rest, and digest. So they can digest the different energies. And understanding too, that I'm going to go back to what you said. Being a human being were imperfect creatures, imperfect humans moving through the space that is very fixed and stepping into that environment at a professional level. There's the business piece. You know, when I talk to some of my big leaguers and, you know, people that have been drafted, minor league guys, there's the beast and the businessman. What does that look like? What does that mean for that particular athlete? Pitchers have a different job than a catcher. Hitters, what are the pieces that you're doing, that you're activating? I have activators for actions specific to a job. If you're a pitcher, I have activators for actions. If you're a catcher, if you're on defense, which I have a very offensive style defense for my position players, it's different than just reacting and reflexive. It's proactive, it's activated. And we activate these things before we step between the white lines. And then before you get to the field, there's another list of activators. Action. So understanding, too, that we're the only creatures on the planet that can overthink our feelings and choose our thoughts. That's a huge aha moment for a lot of people like athletes. A lot of times I'm sure you've heard this. Oh, I'm overthinking. I overthink. And I'm like, that's wonderful. But people see that as a negative about themselves. And that frame, that mental frame right there blocks. And you've heard the phrase of, oh, this guy's in his own way, or I'll hear it from athletes. They're telling me I'm in my own way. But people. And not every coach is a great leader. They themselves are either they know everything and they're kind of fixed in how they coach, and it's kind of like, figure it out or whatever, or they just don't Coach, they sit back and the expectation externally and internally can block. So just sitting down and even having a conversation of, okay, where are we at? Talent is not enough. There's business aspects to this, there's professional aspects of this. And being a professional is, I think the number one thing is just being open to still learning and maybe learning what you don't know, you don't know. And how can I better lead myself as a coach? How can I learn to lead myself as a professional player? And I'm going to. I want to be elite. That want is great, but the need is primary when it comes to pro sports. What do you need to do? What does the sport, what does the environment of the sport require in need of you? And you at minimum have to have that. And when I talk to a lot of like high school kids that get drafted, parents of those kids, those kids, when they get released after a year or two because they're not producing at the expectation or the level that they need to be or for whatever reason there is to be released, I think in the environment of baseball right now, it's changed a lot. And there's people being released that have better numbers than kids that haven't been released or players that haven't been released. So are you doing everything that you need to do and are you understanding what that even is?
- [15:11]
A
You said something that is so profound and people may have just glossed over it and I want to pause on it. So you said, you talked about the business side, right? Because a lot of athletes, they play in high school and even in college and to them they're playing a sport and they love it. And so it is this thing that they've loved for so long. They get drafted and they enter this professional space where now it is a business and they haven't spent much time thinking about it much. Or maybe they have, maybe they understand, they grasp it. Yeah, I understand I'm getting paid for this. But when it starts to happen, one of the things that I've recognized is it literally it can be a weight that is placed on these guys shoulders where all of a sudden now they're feeling this heaviness of this expectation that they just had no idea was a thing, right? And so then when now you're in pro ball and you're getting paid and there's this expectation, it's like, I'm not just doing this to impress mom and dad or my buddies or whatever. Now it's like, oh man, that people are looking, they're expecting me to live up to. Maybe they signed for $5 million, maybe they signed for a million.
- [16:21]
B
What.
- [16:21]
A
Whatever that number is. But there is an expectation that now is placed on me that I need to live up and show them that I am worth the amount of money that they invested in me. I imagine as you work with some of these guys, that's a thing that is not anything that is, you know, oh, yeah, no big deal. It's like, how is this affecting you? I would imagine that's. Is that a conversation that you spend time like diving into 100%.
- [16:47]
B
I take the expectation and I peel it off and I put in place of that standard. What? The standard, meet versus expectation expectation. If they get caught in expectation, whether it be because of the money and all these other things, then they, they go on the field and they play to results. And. And that is. The more I chase something, the further away it can get. So I pull them back and we create a standard, we create a foundation so that when they do fall down, it's not if. It's when failure 100% is going to come upon us all. In sports, having a failure routine is important. Even discussing the failure. So it's not such the elephant in the realm.
- [17:37]
A
Having a failure routine is important. That's great.
- [17:40]
B
We have a failure routine. In the work that I do with these guys, each one of them has a different routine.
- [17:45]
A
So like, when I experience failure, they now have the tools to like work through the failure in an empowering way.
- [17:54]
B
A hundred percent. It's being proactive, it's being offensive with failure, if I'm going to execute a successful play, then I'm going to execute failure the exact same. And then the fear, because people are like, how do you deal with the fear of failure? I turn and face fear because running from it, especially between the white lines. In a game like baseball, when failure is the way bigger number, then I'm turning and facing it. And how can I minimize the misses? Can I knock that seven down to 6.5? Perhaps? I'm working on a protocol to do that with neurosurgeons as we speak. But getting into a position where instead of getting between the white lines and playing the game of, I gotta try not to. We play the game of, even if I'm sad, mad, intimidated, scared, which a lot of them are scared. They just don't voice that. They don't articulate it. I hear it. And when I ask them, are you scared? Yes. Great. Let's talk about that. I'm overthinking a lot. Great. You Happen to be the only creature in the world that can overthink your feelings and choose thoughts. So do we need to compete tomorrow? Do you have the ball tomorrow in your hand or the. Is the coach giving you the ball? Yes. Okay, so let's talk about that game plan. And when you fall down, you. Here's this amazing foundation of standard that you get to get right back in. And what does the reset mean? You know, generic mental skills is, hey, look at you go. Be confident. Hey, we need you to throw strikes here. Hey, we need a grounder here. Hey, we need this. Here. Hey, we need this. Go look for your pitch. Protect the plate. All these phases, these phrases I hear. First of all, protect. Protection is defensive. So if I'm telling a hitter to protect the plate in an offensive position, I'm speaking defense to him. Go look for your pitch. Why do we need to look around when we already know exactly where the pitch is coming from? And it's not my pitch, it's the pitcher's pitch. It's my opportunity. So speaking the right language, the one that this game needs and requires, it's a game of offense. Offense. Nobody ever left a baseball game going, wow, defense really won that game. It's always offense. And by the way, executing a ball at short and then making the play, I'm hunting a runner. If I'm in the outfield and he's on first and I get a grounder in the five, six hole all the way to the fence, I know they're going to try to sneak home from me. I'm going to come up. Because every. Every step I take, he takes three. If I know these things and you have a strategy and you understand and know your job, then we build the routines that go with the job. We activate the actions that go with the job. I tell pitchers, a lot of them golf. I'll say, hey, do you golf? Yes. When you go to hole number one, what do you do? Oh, I drive the ball. Of course you do. Do you just toss it in the grass? No, I tee it up. Okay, so we're going to work on teeing up each single pitch, Every single pitch that you ever go down range with.
- [20:53]
A
Well, I love. I was actually going to bring up language before you did, so that's. You're reading my mind. But what's so great about it is, you know, when I. When I speak to athletes, we listen, right? That's. That's what we need to do to be good at our jobs. And when you. When you hear the language that they Use. You can even recite it back to them after they've said something. And, and, you know, you. I'll bring up a question like, hey, so I want to make sure I'm hearing you right. I just heard you say, you know, these things. Is that, Is that what you meant? Well, no, that's not what I meant at all. Because they're using language that is just the way that we all speak in day to day. You know, in the day to day world that isn't quite connected to how they really feel. And so in your line of work, I imagine it's almost reminding them, hey, look, these are disempowered thoughts. These are dis. This is a disempowered language you're using. So let's turn that around and let's make it empowered, right? Like, tee it up. Perfect example, right? How many guys would say, oh, man, I'm just up there just throwing it up there, man. And they're just hitting it out of the park. And I just feel like there's nothing I can do to make a difference. And you're like, wait a second. Let's. Let's actually figure out what it is that you're trying to convey. Let's tighten up the language because, yeah, when you, when even us as we're talking, if I were to say I feel bad, just saying the word bad makes me feel that way.
- [22:16]
B
But that might be a truth and a fact that your feelings are one way. But let's say if you had a game tonight, I'd be like, gosh, Matt, I'm sorry that you're feeling bad. Are you still able to compete? The fact that you feel seen and heard and that support is there for you and you know it is, gives you the confidence in the moment to perhaps say, yes. But in the past, feeling this bad, as bad as I do has got in the way of what I do when I perform. It freaks me out or whatever it is. Then I'm able to step in and go, okay, tonight we're going to start our breath work a little earlier to get you into that nervous system. You're going to maintain that through your game. And then in this situation or that one, depending on your job, I'm going to challenge you with something. We're going to play a game in the game. So a lot of athletes, I'll just give you an example, they'll use the word struggle. I'm struggling. I said, well, are you homeless and hungry? Because I didn't. I wasn't aware that you're homeless. They're like, no. I said, so are you struggling? And they catch themselves and they go, no. But the awesome thing about an athlete brain is that we like a challenge. So imagine if I called you up and I said, hey, Matt, are you up for a struggle today? You'd be like the, what's your deal? No, but if I said, hey, I have a challenge for you, you'd be immediately curious. Absolutely. Exactly. Okay, so baseball is always going to challenge. That's the allure of this game and also the piece of it that comes running over and kicks you in the nuts. It's a psychologically abusive relationship is what it is. It is. And it's like the hottest chick these guys will ever date and she's psychologically abusive. And some days they're like, that was the best date I've ever had. I love this. And the next day they're like, holy shit. Just kicked me in the nuts for no reason. It's not a personal attack and they are not victims. But the woe is me to why not me? Because why not me? Why not me? I can do this because I'm willing to do what I need to do and what's required. That's how you become great. It's not want.
- [24:31]
A
Yeah, you're like calling them forward.
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B
I, I'm guiding, I'm teaching, I'm mentoring, I'm coaching, I'm training. They learn, they drill, they train, they compete. I treat them like a fighter. I do treat them like they're fighters. They're fighters. It's a martial art. Technique and leverage beats strength. 1 out of 100 out of 100 times for anything in what I do. Jiu jitsu is a game of technique and leveraged beat strength. It will do it every single time. Doesn't matter. I can fight a 300 pound guy. I, I look at that and I'm like, not even rattled.
- [25:08]
A
No, you're absolutely right. Because, yeah, the game of baseball we can all look at.
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B
You know, we leverage from the ground up, we hit from the ground up, we pitch from the ground up.
- [25:15]
A
Well, you can also look at like the size of the guys in baseball and it's like, yeah, Dustin Pedroia, I remember like know he was a guy who I was a senior in high school, he was a sophomore. He grew up in the same area in Sacramento. And I used to remember we would play his team, we were one of the best teams in the, in the city. He was also at one of the best teams in the city. And so when we, when we would play each other, it would always be this, like, really contentious. It was like the Yankees playing the Red Sox. That's kind of how it felt.
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B
Yeah.
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A
But this guy was an absolute animal. When he was on the base path, you're like, this guy's going to score. And so you would look at him and it didn't matter that he was smaller than everybody else. You're looking at him as though he is the biggest guy on the field. Right, right. And so him carrying himself that way almost like played a psychological game on a lot of. Right. So think that's why I love baseball because it's like you don't have to be the biggest, you don't have to be the strongest. Nope, it's actually not about that at all. That's why, like, I love talking about the mental stuff. And you ask any player what percentage of the game is mental. Nobody says like, I don't know, like 10%. Everybody says the majority of it is mental. Right.
- [26:22]
B
Yet the majority does not do this.
- [26:25]
A
Right. And that's what's funny is when I ask them that question and they tell me it's the majority mental, I say, well, how much of your day are you spending training the mental side? And they look at me like I'm crazy. But how many, how much of the day are they spending on working out in the gym?
- [26:40]
B
They're working harder, not smarter.
- [26:42]
A
That's right. Everything that they're putting towards the game is all physical. And so I always like to like call them forward to say, well, what if you were to train not, not 75% mental, but what if you were to just train something? And I'm not. You're still going to get your ground balls and take your hacks in the cage and, you know, throw and take fly balls or whatever it is that you want to work on. That's not, you're not going to let that go. But instead of playing video games for an hour a day, take a percentage of that time and I don't know, like, read one of these books, right? Like hire somebody, speak to them. Because that's the component when you're talking about separating yourself at the next level. And even at the highest level in travel ball, like guys are doing things differently than just the normal kids that you're used to playing against. I want to dive into something though. So on your website you have what, what seems like kind of like a, a four part process. I want to touch on each one if, if we could. So the first you call, engage Maximize potential personally and professionally. Actions align with clear intentions. How do you help an athlete align a clear intention with an action that they could take? Like, how do you do that?
- [27:55]
B
I reverse engineer it directly from their job.
- [27:59]
A
Okay.
- [27:59]
B
Within the game.
- [28:01]
A
I reverse engineer it from the action or from their job within the game. Can you give us an example?
- [28:09]
B
Sure. If you're a pitcher, what's your job?
- [28:14]
A
To get guys out.
- [28:15]
B
Okay. Can we agree that an out is a result of you doing your job?
- [28:22]
A
Absolutely.
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B
Okay. Because if the left fielder catches the ball and he gets the out you facilitated. So what's your job?
- [28:30]
A
It's to execute pitches.
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B
Yes. One at a time. That's it. You have one job.
- [28:35]
A
One at a time.
- [28:36]
B
Not to throw strikes, not to get outs, not to. Not the runners.
- [28:39]
A
Right. It's like, what can I control? I can't control. And it's actually funny. I can't control if this is going to be a strike, because if he takes it and he umpire calls it a ball, I may have executed my pitch.
- [28:50]
B
And that pisses you off.
- [28:51]
A
Right.
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B
And what does that do? That puts you on defense.
- [28:53]
A
Yes, it does.
- [28:54]
B
A pitcher is the most offensive player on the field, as I see it. And that offensive mindset for a pitcher, when baseball calls a pitcher on defense, baseball itself says a pitcher's on defense. That's his position. But he's, to me, the most violent guy on the field. He's throwing a person an object that can kill you at velocities, that can kill you into a personal space again and again and again, or he's throwing a punch. Hitters, their job is to execute the opportunity. And sometimes I'll ask them, what's the opportunity? And they're like, the at bat, I'm all, no, what are the opportunities? They're like foul balls, hits, you know, so people really don't know all the time their job in the simplest, simplified form that they could know it. And when I've told that to pitchers, they'll. They'll give me five different results, five different things that they believe is their job. And I'm like, wow, it's a lot of noise. Every game, on top of the fans, on top of the coaches and whatever else is going on and the energy. And when I've said your job is just to execute pitches, it does not change if there's guys on base, if there's guys not on base, if the game's up, if the game's down, your job is to execute pitches. So to have the ability to have a process in place that allows them to be working in between the pitches to then work re. Tee up that next pitch, and we build what that is for each pitcher.
- [30:23]
A
What would you say to a player who's a pitcher or even a parent who says, you know, let's say a client works with you and a dad calls you on the phone and you said, hey, how's the game today? And the dad says, oh, man, you know, I gotta be honest. Like, if we had a different umpire, it would have been a different result. Like, my son was dialed, but what wasn't getting the call.
- [30:46]
B
And that can happen. That could be a truth and a fact. It could be an opinion. So in what context? Like as if the dad is too much for the athlete or.
- [31:00]
A
No. Well, I'm just using that as an example because oftentimes, you know, I think what I love about how you're. How you work is players oftentimes don't want to lift the weight mentally. They.
- [31:16]
B
That's a good way to put it.
- [31:17]
A
Well, like, if I was your client, right? And let's just say, you know, we're sitting here today and you asked me that question, like, hey, Matt, how was the game today? What's the traditional answer that a normal kid, 16, 17, 18 years old would give?
- [31:31]
B
It was good.
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A
Right. Why was it good?
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B
Or they say it was bad.
- [31:34]
A
Right. Good or bad. Like even easy. Like, lazy thought. Right.
- [31:38]
B
And I say, okay, so I'll flip it around. If I came to you and I was working with you and you said, hey, D, how'd your game go? I suck. It was terrible. What would you tell me?
- [31:50]
A
I mean, and they know.
- [31:51]
B
The kids will sit there and they're like, I don't know. I go, we don't really have anywhere to go. So instead of judgment, this is where I teach them to assess. So if they say, oh, I struck out three times, or let's say they said, I'm three for four with a double, I'm like, wonderful. What was the fourth one? Oh, I struck out. Oh, okay. Did you strike out looking? Did you swing over or under? They're like, oh. So now we begin the process of assessing rather than judging, Right? And now we're able to have a conversation. Wow. Did you do this? Did you just. Did. Did you do this? Like, going through the checklist, the activators for the actions, and I will know if they've cut a corner, and the pro guys, I'll be able to see them, and I'll be like, wow, you're drifting out of the Box tonight. What's going on? How'd you. How'd you see that? Like, I know you. I saw your face. I saw your eyes. You look really like something's off. Are you okay? Yeah. You're off balance. So why were you so defensive like last year? I'll take this in a completely same direction, but even expand this last year, the whole Phillies team was on defense. I felt like the Phillies were better than the Mets last year. That's not just an opinion. I really felt like, gosh, this is the better team. And it was all year, and then I saw them all of a sudden on defense, every single player, and I was just watching, and I'm like, oh, my gosh, they're so defensive. And it just kept happening and getting worse and worse. I've seen a lot of teams where I'll watch teams and I'll see that the team cumulative is on defense and it's energy, and everybody's waiting for this guy to make it happen or this guy to make it happen. Usually when you have teams that are stacked with dudes, you'll see that sometimes. But kids are the same. I. I think that parents, too, we jump to it's good or bad instead of assessing and being like, wow, yeah, I got defensive during that at bat, or this happened, or if you're 0 for 2 and now you go in, I've had kids say, well, the other two at bats are just ruined. I said, because you're mad, because you're feeling upset. Yeah. And I expected to do this or expect to do that. So, I mean, Matt, I could give you a hundred different examples of all these pieces, but when we move in a direction that's simplified and very clear for my game to be offensive, when I get defensive or I become defensive because of whatever scenario, all the hundreds of different ones that can happen in the game of baseball, being trained and being aware of when that's happening or has happened, or if I can go in the dugout instead of being pissed off that I struck out, I can assess in that moment. Now I have the opportunity to make the adjustment with my next opportunity. Baseball is a game of opportunities and adjustments. But if you're not trained, how can you know when all those adjustments need to happen and where they need to happen? Well, you don't.
- [35:09]
A
Well, and that's why I love that the guy you're. You're calling the guy forward to lift the weight himself. Because if you were to ask.
- [35:15]
B
Accountability.
- [35:16]
A
Exactly. And if the kid just says it was good or it was Bad. It's like, you're not. You're not helping train in that moment.
- [35:23]
B
They don't know, and they don't know what they don't know, including lots of coaches and parents and traditional clinical mental skills. Sports psychology does not teach what you and I are speaking about right now.
- [35:33]
A
Right?
- [35:34]
B
It doesn't. And a lot of people that have worked with mental skills coaches say, it didn't work for me. Well, and I know why.
- [35:41]
A
And how do you. How do you get bigger in the gym? You got to lift the weight, right. So how are you going to get better with the mental stuff? You have to lift the weight, too. You have to inquire. You have to, like, lift the weight mentally, where it's like, yeah, this is going to feel heavy. This is going to feel like, oh, man. I don't. I don't like talking about this stuff. This doesn't make me feel great. But you're never gonna learn if you don't lift the weight. And so that is what. I love, that you're calling him into that, because I don't think players naturally want to do that on their own.
- [36:10]
B
I lighten the weight.
- [36:11]
A
You lighten the weight.
- [36:12]
B
I simplify. I lighten the weight every single time. Every single time. There hasn't been a player, kid or adult, that I haven't lightened the weight they're carrying. And their space is messy. They're bringing eight bags, and I pack it all into a carry on. I'm like, let's go. And they're like, this is amazing. This is great. Yeah.
- [36:30]
A
So that was engaged. So the next one is focus. So build a trusted sustainable blue blueprint with progress and results, I guess. Describe a trusted sustainable blueprint. How do you determine what a player's blueprint is? Is that a little bit of just, like, needing to get them to articulate? Because it sounds like a lot of what you're doing is a result of what they're explaining to you, what their experience is.
- [36:59]
B
Correct.
- [37:00]
A
So is that where it is? I'm assuming that's where it starts. But then how do you get it to a place where, like, here's your blueprint?
- [37:07]
B
So when I first talk to them, I meet them where they are, they kind of give me all the pieces, as many as they'll give me in that moment, and I'll put a few together, and I'll be like, why don't you go do this, not try this. I replaced the word try with do. Do it, trying it, doing it. Two different things. Doing it. I'M all in trying. It's like, I'm gonna swim. I'm not gonna dip. My.
- [37:27]
A
Trying it almost even as I say it is like, oh, yeah, if I don't do it, it's okay, right?
- [37:32]
B
Yeah, it's like that pattern on the back. It's. We try tried.
- [37:35]
A
It was. It's safe.
- [37:36]
B
Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's. It's. It's a vulnerable space. So in. In the beginning, it doesn't feel safe, but it does. Once they understand that I'm 100% all in for them. And with them, I'm not talking down. I'm talking with. I'm not talking even to. I'm talking with. I need to learn you so then I can really support you to build. They build with me. It's not a pill I can give them to just go do this or that. But a lot of times the player will call. Let's say we have our first talk. I'll be like, give me a call in two, three days. Process what I've shared with you. And if you have a game, and I'll ask that right away, like, when's your next game? Because sometimes agents will call, hey, I have a player. And I'll talk to them. When are you playing? Sometimes they're like, I'm playing tonight. Yeah, I'm going to. I'm going to say, okay, what's your number one issue right now? And I might adjust that right away for them, and I'll leave it. I'll back off. Oh, well, I have this and I have that. I go, okay, do this, and I'll talk to you in, like, two or three days or after. If you want to text me tonight, Whatever you need will let me know. But that's it. And they're kind of confused.
- [38:43]
A
Yeah.
- [38:44]
B
Because it won't always be that. Just the obvious. I had a catcher called me before, and I said his issue immediately had to do with connecting. He was pretty pissed. He expected something different. Our first conversation, he called me back three days later, he goes, it's fixed. He goes, wow, I owe you an apology.
- [39:02]
A
That's hilarious.
- [39:02]
B
I go, no. Yeah. He had something they called the yips. I just don't. I said, is your arm injured? He's like, no, but this is what's happening and the scenario. And I said, okay, do this.
- [39:13]
A
It has to be so complicated for players sometimes, right? Like, there's no world in which you're just going to tell me to do this, and I do it, and it works. Like, there's no way. Right.
- [39:21]
B
But I'll find. I'll find what's going on immediately. And even if it's an intuitive feel I have based on what they're telling me, I mean, there's times I've answered the phone, hello, Hi. And I hear dead silent. And I know they've got a lump in their throat and they start crying. Grown men.
- [39:38]
A
Yeah.
- [39:38]
B
And I'll just hold space.
- [39:39]
A
That's how much they care.
- [39:40]
B
I just, you know, I don't have about 50 slides up trying to prove how smart I am. I'm not, you know, I'm just. I'm here to meet you where you are. If I don't know, I'm the first to say I don't know. But I'll call someone who does, and I'll call you back, and we'll figure it out. It's a feel. There's a lot of feel to it. And, you know, the amazing thing is baseball requires feel over feelings. It really doesn't care about our feelings, but it requires feel. So how can I teach feel if I myself cannot have a feel? So there is a lot of feel that goes into what I do. And they call back. I said, so if they call up and they say, hey, that was really great, or the breathing was a game changer, I go, wonderful. Are we going in the right direction? Yes. Okay, then here's the next piece. And then I ask questions, I get a new piece, and I put that in order. And then we start building this foundation. And once we kind of are speaking the language and they understand, there's been times where they get. They make progress so fast right away that I won't hear from them. They think everything's fine and it's working. And then I get a call of, oh, well, this happened, and that happened. And I said, okay, there's a reason why I pace with you.
- [40:49]
A
Right?
- [40:49]
B
Because when things are going great, that's when I really love to work. Because then we can press. I can press. I have space to press with them and say, hey, what about this? Or a pitcher? I'm like, what pitch is your weakest pitch? Let's work on that in the off season. Let me organize something for you, you know, or, hey, I'm glad. Last game was great. This is the lineup we have coming up this next week. Let's pick out the dudes and let's sequence. Let's have some fun with this game, and let's already get ahead early and ahead, which is something they love to say. Everybody says it but what are you doing to get early and ahead? There's a lot of cliches and phrases and things people are doing. And I'll ask them, what does that mean? What's the action to that? They're like, well, I don't know. I'm all clearly. But everybody says it, right? Well, yeah. Has anybody ever said how to. That what you're saying? So I really live in the how to space, the action space, the technical space, the leverage space. I press. The better they're doing. We press. That's how we climb. There's pits and peaks in life. Pits and peaks. If the pit is where they are and they're doing great, do you want to be an All Star? Okay, so maybe that's the peak. What does that guy look like? What does that guy weigh? Who is that guy? Let's. Let's take that on today and do all the things. Things meaning win the day when the week, win the month. And then pretty soon it makes it really tough not to get to the peak. And then once you get to that peak, if you stone, if you still know me, I'm gonna push you off that peak.
- [42:26]
A
I was gonna say there's another one. Yeah, exactly.
- [42:29]
B
But that is. That is true coaching, and it's holding space and collecting data. That's what I do. I can't. I can't want more for them than they want for themselves. I can see the value. I can believe in you. I can have confidence in you, but I can't project mine onto you. So I've got to figure out and hear you just enough and hear the. Sometimes I'll hear a block that has nothing to do with baseball, you know, and helping them manage a family in pro ball, that's tough, too. We've got a massive divorce rate.
- [43:02]
A
Yeah.
- [43:03]
B
You know, I've. That's personal to me. I've. The game of baseball has ended, and so did our family. So there's a lot of pieces of this that I can share with them. Ways to go, things to do, actions to take, and things to be all in on in these moments to enjoy, too, because it is very stressful. It's not as glamorous as people think it is. So.
- [43:34]
A
So everybody knows. So the four things. Engage, focus, work, train. I do want to get into something with you right now, and you kind of brought something up, and I think it's important for everybody to hear this game. It's personal to you, right? You weren't anybody who just like, oh, yeah, I know baseball players. You actually Were married to a major league athlete.
- [43:53]
B
I had children with a major league athlete, and we did not get married.
- [43:57]
A
Okay. Um, but even recently, right, you experienced something that. Thank God you had your work, that you have developed over the years, because from everything that I've heard you talk about with this, it's this. You relied on this work to get you through this moment. Can you. Can you share a little bit about what happened?
- [44:21]
B
Of course. So 18 months ago, I had gone to a chiropractor. My neck was pretty tied up, and I went to what I thought was a chiropractor into a medical office, and he adjusted my neck. And about a week after, I dropped in a parking lot totally paralyzed and did not know what was happening. It was absolutely terrifying. And an ambulance picked me up. I coded in the ambulance. I crossed over to the other side.
- [44:49]
A
Oh, wow.
- [44:50]
B
And came right back and woke up in emergency room and spent a month in the ICU and was told that my carotid artery was severed and my vertebral vessels were also damaged. I had basically bled out my body, and my right side of my brain wasn't getting any blood. I had an ischemic stroke.
- [45:14]
A
Oh, my God.
- [45:15]
B
So, yeah, so there's parts of my brain that will never come back. So sometimes my words will twist or I'll stutter or just speaking right where the stroke. Stroke hit in the center of my emotional cortex. The whole right side of my brain was gone. I didn't hear music. I still can't hum. Take me out to the ball game. I affection the. The woman part in me. Just everything. My music, art, all the right side of my brain. So I was in ICU for a month, fighting for my life, learning to walk, talk, and everything all over again. And to be able to overthink my feelings laying there in the hospital bed and to really calm my subconscious and all the muscles in my body to focus on just allowing my carotid artery to be healed and to pump blood back to my brain was tremendous. The doctor still, I don't understand how my carotid healed up fast enough to pump blood back to my brain within the first 10 days. Because I just sat there and laid in there, and I'm like, the carotid will heal. The body will heal the carotid artery, and then the carotid will pump blood to the brain. And it did. I got out, and I have trained myself back to typing with my left hand. And, I mean, I can run. The doctors to this day are just. We don't know how you've done what you've done, but it's been about what I was willing to do. And I have two boys. I'm the only parent. Unfortunately, the kid's dad is not involved in their lives at all. And leaving them was not an option for me. And that was a big part of my fight. Understanding how to use my breath to control my nervous system, to overthink my feelings, choose my thoughts, choose to just compete with what was right in front of me and be all in. Be really offensive about healing. Proactive.
- [47:20]
A
Did you know you were doing, like. Was this an intentional thing? Like, oh, I have this skill that I've developed over the years. I'm going to use it now. Or was it like, it was just second nature? It's like, I don't have a choice. This is what I know. This is what I'm doing.
- [47:34]
B
Some of it was second nature, mostly because of the boys. Bryce was home from school at the time, and he was. He called my cell phone when I was in the back of the ambulance, and she had it on speakerphone. And I could hear him calling for me. When I crossed over, I could hear my son like, mom, Mom. Why is my mom talking? He was panicking. And then he had gotten in his truck and was trying to catch the ambulance on the freeway.
- [48:00]
A
Oh, my goodness.
- [48:01]
B
And pulled into the emergency room right as they were pulling me out of the ambulance and saw me like that. I can't imagine. I mean, I've talked to him, obviously, what that was like for him, and he has a hard time speaking about it.
- [48:13]
A
This wasn't that long ago. This was, like, in the fall, Maybe.
- [48:16]
B
This was 18 months.
- [48:17]
A
Okay.
- [48:17]
B
I was meant to speak at the ABCA. That would have been 2024, January. And I couldn't travel. I mean, I couldn't get on an airplane. As a matter of fact, the first time I flew was to the ABCA in 2025. I think it was this year. Yeah. My recall still. I still have a tough time with recalling times and things like that. Yeah, it's gonna take me time. I mean, I've learned a lot about the brain. Even more so. I really feel, too, that as much as this incident took from me, which I found out, the guy was not a chiropractor. No license, no training.
- [48:59]
A
Stop.
- [48:59]
B
No, he's not. I'm. I have a pretty big lawsuit going. I have a trial in 2026. So that's been a whole nother hurdle. But as much as this is taken from me, I have a visual into a world of simplifying. And it's allowed me to see and have a different feel. Even for the work that I do. It's pretty amazing.
- [49:31]
A
What's coming to mind for me, and I've heard you talk about this, is that a lot of your work is for creating better people, make better people, make better players. Better players make better teams. Yeah.
- [49:45]
B
Better athletes.
- [49:46]
A
Here's your words.
- [49:47]
B
Thank you.
- [49:49]
A
But I think it's a beautiful thing when this isn't something that you just teach, have an idea about. Like, these are things that even in these moments right now, you're having to use these tools that you are teaching athletes every day.
- [50:06]
B
I. I use them. And I'm. There's been times I've sat back at can at my desk, moments where I'm intimidated, I'm scared, I want to be. I have this thing where I'm like, I can't miss. I feel like my friend who's a neurosurgeon, she goes, could you imagine we were having a really amazing conversation a few weeks ago? And she goes, could you imagine if my stats were like a baseball player's? I said, no. She goes. She goes, I can't miss. She goes, how do you feel in your work? I go, that's interesting, because I work with a lot of naval special warfare people. And I said, I can't miss. And this just came up a few weeks ago, and I was really thinking a lot about that and processing that, and I've always felt that way, but to kind of be aware of that. And what does miss mean? It would mean giving. Saying the wrong thing or just like saying, oh, on page 12, anxiety says, this. This is what you are. Go be this. Go do this. And just kind of the way mental skills is, as it's written, it makes no sense to me. It didn't work for me as an athlete, and there's a lot of people out there that have just been turned off by it. So every single time, every single athlete I deal with, whether it's a child or the top MLB athlete present, it's personal to me. It's their life. They are picking up a phone and trusting me into their space, their livelihood, their career, their space. And, you know, we blink and the baseball career is over, and I can't miss. I don't miss. I won't miss. And it matters to me and my tools every single day. I'm having to refine them, I'm having to polish them, I'm having to prepare them, organize them. I have to Approach every day a very certain way. I wake up defeated, very defeated currently. And the neuroplasticity in my brain, my brain's having to rewire. And the healing process is incredibly painful. And so Tommy John surgery, when someone's coming back from that, there's mental health, physical and emotional pieces to that. It's not just, oh, hey, another Tommy John, no big deal. That's why you've probably seen me on Twitter. I'm like, velo's not their job. Stop. And I'm. I come out sometimes blazing, but throwing pitches is like breaths. They're only going to have so many, and it'll be done at bats. The opportunities, the pitches being present for every pitch of the game. I've had players tell me, oh, I'm so burnt out. I'm so tired. I don't even know what town we're in sometimes. I don't know at inning, how many outs. They're just tuned out because they haven't. They're tired and they're human beings. So if we could embrace the human being and what it means to be curious, what it means to continue learning, honing our feeling. And what is that? And it all matters. I passed over. I came back. And it's painful coming back. And this healing process has been beyond humbling. It's every day, my emotions, my thoughts, all kinds of things are all over the place, overthinking. All the things that I hear from athletes, every single day touches on some part of the day that I have been in that space. And we're balls of energy and understanding how to learning how to manage the emotional pieces and then to put them into place and use them for us within our craft, our work, parenting, being a professional, no matter what you're doing, we don't know everything. And to think that you do and to be stuck in that space is just. You're dying anyways. Because, yeah, this has been a tremendous 18 months. And I'm so grateful to be alive, so grateful for all the opportunities I have. And I'm passionate and my protective instincts are off a chart anyways. So teaching these guys how to protect the confidence that they do, learn how to build, how to protect their passion and joy. When you're this kid who gets this scholarship and you go in as a freshman and you don't play, or you have coaches that are bullies, disrespecting you themselves, the organization, getting away with it, abusing their authority, that happens across the country, and stepping in on behalf of these kids, being their voice Being their safe place, their trusted space. I don't miss. I won't. I won't miss. And I know you probably feel the same way in your line of work.
- [55:06]
A
Yeah. You know what's interesting is I've never heard somebody describe professional baseball players using the term. And I don't mean they're not fighters, because I believe they are. I've never heard somebody actually use that and say, that's what I teach. And the one word that's coming up for me as I'm hearing your story is fighter. So it's like, yeah, I mean, it makes so much sense. And I think everybody needs to hear that because what a fight. When I hear the term fighter, it essentially gives back power. Like you have the ability to punch.
- [55:41]
B
I'm activating the warrior in you as a man. And I spent over 20 something years on the mats. I have a third degree black belt. I'm a world champion. I've won them and I've lost them. And understanding how powerful technique is, I hear all the time, mechanics, my mechanics. I go, timeout. The minute you have a bat, you get in a box and a pitcher is on a mound opposing you, you're a mechanic of hitting. Mechanic doesn't have mechanics. You are the mechanic. How you do what you do is your technique. A pitcher, the same. And if we step back, I was talking to a young kid and I've said this to my big leaguers too. However, this young kid, to watch his face light up was awesome for me. I knew something clicked. So he loved that I'm a fighter. He was asking me a lot of questions about it. So I said, okay, I'm going to infuse the fire fighter mindset with this kid because I can tell it's res. He's going to hear me immediately. So I said, imagine if I was going to put you in a cage with the kid that you're hitting against today. But it was just, you're going to fight each other instead of play baseball. But it's baseball rules of engagement. You're the hitter, he's the pitcher. You're going to fight each other, push him in a cage. Baseball rules, rules of engagement says the pitcher is going to come over and throw a punch at you. I go, how long is it going to take you to punch him back? He goes, not long at all. I'm going, I'll punch him right away. I said, you will, Right. So do you need him in that cage with you to have a fight? He goes, yeah, I want him in the cage. I go, damn right you do. I said. He goes, how long would it take you to punch back? I said, well, let's think about this. I'm standing in the box, hands up here. Take the bat out of my hand. That translates to this for me. I go, I'll rock his shit. The minute I see the fist coming, he goes, yeah, I'm gonna rock his shit. So then he started saying it, and I was like, yes.
- [57:37]
A
Yeah, you go.
- [57:37]
B
I said, okay, cool. So are you ready to hit today? Is that little different than feeling scared of being hit? He goes, yeah. I go, and let's do another thing. Let's remove the negotiation. Is this the business negotiation? You're going to wait for your pitch? He goes, no, not anymore. I'm going to rock his shit. I said, damn right you are. Okay, so pitcher sends a ball downrange. Hitter. Hitters hit. If I'm calm, cool, collected, I've done my breath work. I actually see the ball sooner. Early and ahead. Action to be early and ahead. I'm balanced. When I'm balanced, I'm going to fire off my best swing. I'm not trying. I'm just going to do it so I'm balanced in a specific way, which I've stood tons of hitters up in front of me, and I'm all, get in your hitting stance. And they stand up and I take one finger and they're off balance. I. I go, is that really your hitting stance? I go, now get in a fighting stance and throw. Throw a punch at me. Done this with college kids a ton, over and over, and they're looking at me like, what? I go, yes. And all the kids are sitting in chairs, and they're like, holy shit. I go, I really want you to. And within two seconds, I'm behind them, and they cannot figure it out. I go, I'm balanced. And I already knew you were going to throw a punch, right? I actually asked you to. Just like you do when you're hitting against a pitcher. You know he's throwing the pitch. So what are you worried about? We need him. And they're like, oh, and the light goes on. But I'm really speaking to the warriors in them, and that fighter that's already in them, it just hasn't been activated. So we activate it, then we do it, and we lay the game of baseball over that. And now I've activated something in them, and it's a completely different frame. I crushed the frame that wasn't working, and I build the frame that will work. But everyone's different.
- [59:31]
A
All right, so last question for you. And I feel like this is a great way to end this because this has been phenomenal. I want you to finish this sentence and I want you to think about youth, baseball, travel, baseball, amateurs. The game of baseball at the youth level would be better if we let them play. Meaning.
- [60:02]
B
Back up, hold space, encourage them to ask the questions, evaluate, collect data and make the adjustments that need to be made. That's not a one sentencer for me. It just let them play. There's too much of this emphasis on the pressure of expectation. And amateur sports is almost obsolete. Travel is the last level of amateur sports.
- [60:32]
A
Yeah, no, that makes, I mean, it makes so much sense when you say that.
- [60:35]
B
I know you hear me.
- [60:36]
A
Yeah, no, because, you know, it's probably the most profound thing you could have said because, yeah, I mean, when I hear let them play, it's like, right? Because everyone else is trying to take control of a thing. And how many times do parents who are watching the kids play say, do this, Be more like this. How come you can't do this? And it becomes this thing where it's more about wanting to impress. Right.
- [61:04]
B
The kid to impress is a big issue for kids playing their game. And playing to impress is two different games you're going to see from one kid and parents. If we're speaking to parents right now, being a parent of two boys, high level athletes wait until they invite you to speak to them about their baseball or their sports. I have something called the invite. I'm my kid's only parent, so that matters to me. And I have big leaguers. Some of them don't want their parents around their families because they've stressed them out that bad backup hold space because that unconditional loving space of just my mom or my dad. I've had big leaguers say, I want my dad. I just want my dad. I miss my dad. And dad is coach. Mom is trying to be coach. I've personally had to coach my kids from T ball all the way up till probably travel sports. I was like, please go experience other people. But along the way of that, I've always stepped back and I hold a space of. It's just mom. I don't discuss the sports. I don't discuss anything unless they're like, hey mom, I have a question and we have a working relationship. Otherwise I will not say one word. I wait for the invite and it always comes because I don't ever step into the space. It's like, we don't Run into someone's house and just run to the table, sit down and eat dinner. We wait for an invitation, and then we sit down when it's time.
- [62:38]
A
It's like anything. Like if someone. We're in a board meeting and I'm like, you need to listen to me. The initial reaction is like, oh, here we go. Instead of if I was sitting down listening to you first, and I say.
- [62:52]
B
Nothing or they feel space.
- [62:53]
A
Right. Naturally you're going to say, well, Matt, what do you think? Right. And that. That is a. That's a great lesson.
- [62:59]
B
And you're teaching them. You're teaching them that we don't need to panic. It's okay. You are going to fall down. You are going to stumble. Fumble. Failure is normal in that game. It's called a rational, realistic approach and response to a game that is based. The frame is. The biggest piece of it is failure. So of course that was going to happen. Well, I don't know. Why are you asking me why? Yeah. Mom, dad, why do you think I just froze at the plate?
- [63:34]
A
Right.
- [63:34]
B
I don't know. That's a great, trustworthy answer, by the way. I've had big leaguers, some of them, I worked seven years straight, and I said, why do you keep hiring me? Because you will say, I don't know. And I trust you with everything and about anything. I don't know is a wonderful answer because it also shows them that you are human as well.
- [63:57]
A
Yeah. And you're willing to be vulnerable. You don't need to answer all the time.
- [64:00]
B
And so wait for the invite. Tell your kids, from now on, I want you to invite me in the space. You want to speak about baseball or sports, invite me. Until then, I just love you.
- [64:12]
A
Yeah.
- [64:12]
B
Are you hungry?
- [64:13]
A
Are you hungry? I love that.
- [64:15]
B
Yeah. What are you hungry for? What do you guys want to do?
- [64:18]
A
Danielle, thank you. I feel like this is. This is version one of probably many more because we could literally talk for hours. So I appreciate you coming on.
- [64:29]
B
Thank you for having me. Of course. I appreciate it. You're doing a great job. I love your podcast. They're fabulous.
- [64:35]
A
Thank you.