Travel Ball With a Purpose: How Excel Baseball Academy Does It Different

Summary

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Most Valuable Agent with Matt Hannaford

Episode: Travel Ball With a Purpose: How Excel Baseball Academy Does It Different

Date: July 16, 2025 | Host: Matt Hannaford | Guest: Manny (Founding Director, Excel Baseball Academy)

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Episode Overview

In this in-depth episode, MLB agent Matt Hannaford sits down with longtime friend and former pro player Manny, co-founder of Excel Baseball Academy, to explore how changes in youth and amateur baseball are shaping players' experiences—and how Manny and his organization are doing things differently. The conversation moves from the evolution of travel baseball and college recruiting to issues of NIL (Name, Image, Likeness), faith, and life lessons. Listeners—players, parents, coaches, and fans—will leave with actionable insight on developing not just great athletes, but well-rounded people.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Baseball Then and Now: The Evolution of Youth and Travel Ball

(00:29 – 04:36)

• Manny recalls a time before organized travel ball was the norm, describing his roots playing American Legion ball in football-centric Oxford, Alabama.
• “For me personally, growing up in Oxford, Alabama, football, number one...With baseball, we would just have an American Legion team that was basically our high school team ...it’s a totally different setup.” – Manny (01:10)
• Travel ball was rare; local teams and family coaches dominated the scene, compared to today’s hyper-organized, showcase-driven environments.

2. Recruitment and College Decision-Making

(04:36 – 11:09)

• Manny describes a less-pressured, “old school” recruitment process compared to today’s landscape—no early commitments or constant hype.

• Importance of taking official visits:
  “My dad...looked at me and said, you will take all five of your official visits. You will not tell any of these schools that you're committing to them until you take all five of your visits.” – Manny (07:50)

• The emotional and logical sides of picking a college; why sometimes “it just feels right” is the answer, not just opportunities for instant playing time.

  “If you get recruited by a number of schools, you’re trying to ...remove the emotion...then make a logical decision.” – Matt (09:03)

• New NCAA rules (e.g., August 1 contact date) have helped both players and coaches avoid premature recruiting decisions and better protect families and programs.

3. The “Business” of College Baseball in the Era of the Transfer Portal and NIL

(11:09 – 19:52)

• The culture of college baseball has shifted:
  • Players and coaches now make shorter-term commitments; the transfer portal has effectively created college “free agency.”
  • Introduction of NIL deals has changed the entire experience.
• “When you start involving money, it’s not so much an amateur sport anymore ...You can't blame the kids for ...getting paid and getting to a bigger ... level.” – Manny (13:56)
• Both schools and players face challenges—changing coaches, cut scholarships, and development that may not align with early hype.
• Manny shares how, if NIL had existed in his day, the allure of helping his financially stretched family would have been tough to resist:

  “If somebody would have offered me an extra $25,000 ... I don't know how I would have turned it down ... I really don't.” – Manny (19:52)

4. Pro Ball: Expectations vs. Reality — and the Mental Grind

(20:00 – 25:24)

• Manny reflects on the “individualization” of professional baseball—success, stats, and advancement overtook the simple fun and team-first mentality of high school and college.
• On the pressure of climbing the ladder:

  “I got to go 1 for 3 with a walk and get my average up...and then get the heck out of this level and go to the next level. And it took the emphasis off the scoreboard.” – Manny (20:27)

• Both Matt and Manny discuss the importance of mental health, self-worth beyond baseball, and the value of learning life’s lessons early (with an anecdote from Matt’s client Jamie on playing freely by letting go of identity tied to performance—see [23:09]).

5. Family, Faith, and the “Why” Behind Excel Baseball Academy

(25:24 – 33:27)

• Manny credits his faith and family for keeping him grounded through career transitions and for helping him leave pro baseball at the right time.
• The central role of faith:

  “My parents growing up, priority number One, your relationship to God, Nothing else mattered. Nothing...” – Manny (31:52)

• How his wife’s support and sacrifices allowed him to pursue baseball, but ultimately, “life after baseball” became the next adventure.

6. Life After Playing: Excel Baseball’s Mission and Methods

(38:02 – 49:47)

• Origins of Excel Baseball Academy:
  • Started in 2003 with one team; growth was intentional and never about chasing money or numbers.
  • Quality over quantity—no “check clears, you play” mentality; tough choices about cutting players.

  “If we don't have the right person coaching, if we don't have a good man, good leader who knows the game, we're not going to create a team." – Manny (39:39)

• Building a culture of integrity and action over talk:

  “Anybody can say anything, right? ... We try to educate, I think, educating parents, educating kids from the beginning...” – Manny (42:56)

• On player development:
  • Personalized to each athlete but built on foundational values; small roster sizes foster opportunity and accountability.
  • “If your priorities are not right...it's a challenge.”

7. Fixing What’s Broken: Perspective on Youth Sports and Rankings

(50:53 – 56:58)

• Rising costs, early specialization, and the ranking culture can push kids and families astray.
• Multi-sport athletes get preference at Excel—"If you gave us two kids that were equal...we’re going to choose the football player because they're going to be a more well-rounded athlete.” – Manny (56:03)
• Importance of prioritizing faith, family, and fun:

  “If your kid’s passionate about baseball, push him, push him...But then there’s a time my dad would look at us ... put the ball and glove away.” – Manny (55:49)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the decision to pick a college
  “I wanted to go earn it. That’s how I made that decision.” – Manny (08:32)

• On the challenge of today’s recruiting rules
  “They’re all put in really tough positions...if you’re a coach and you don’t go after these 14-year-olds who are studs, somebody else is and you’re going to miss out on them.” – Manny (10:13)

• On the lure of NIL money
  “If it was something like that, where I could have helped my parents financially...I don’t know how I would have turned that down.” – Manny (19:52)

• On professional baseball’s mental impact
  “When a team comes together...that is the most fun you will have on a baseball field at any level.” – Manny (21:00)

• On faith as a guiding principle
  “That faith is the reason that my whole entire family...is all because of my faith.” – Manny (32:20)

• On Excel’s approach to travel ball
  “If your check clears, you don’t have a spot on our team...If we don’t have the right person...we’re not going to create a team.” – Manny (39:39)

• On the risk of over-specialization
  “If your kid is meant to play...he will get there. No matter if you play on this select travel team at 9 years old or not.” – Manny (56:58)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:29–04:36 — Youth baseball in the pre-travel-ball era; roots in community and family.
• 04:36–11:09 — College decision-making; visits, offers, the emotional vs. logical process.
• 11:09–19:52 — Risks and rewards of early commitments, coaching changes, and the impact of NIL.
• 20:00–25:24 — Entering pro ball; the pressures, loss of team-first mentality, need for mental resilience.
• 25:24–33:27 — Life beyond the field, importance of family and faith.
• 39:39–49:47 — Excel Baseball's standards, approach to development, and priorities.
• 50:53–56:58 — Advice to families: multi-sport benefits, slowing down, and real developmental windows.
• 62:19 — Advice: “Do your due diligence beforehand. Figure out what's important to you. Talk as a family.” – Manny

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Takeaways & Advice for Listeners

• Players: Focus on your development and team contributions—not just personal accolades. Mental strength and identity outside of baseball matter.
• Parents: Slow down, research programs, and constantly revisit your family’s values and priorities. Don’t rush youth specialization or fall prey to financial pressures.
• Coaches/Organizations: Lead by action, not words. Build teams and cultures around integrity, opportunity, and the joy of the game—not just financial gain or rankings.

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An enlightening conversation reminding us that the game is a tool for growth—and that the right mentors can help families and players find both baseball success and life fulfillment.

Transcript

[A]

Well, brother, I appreciate it, man. Everybody listening is going to hear me refer to you as Manny.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

That's because we go way back. I was fortunate enough to know you when you were a player back in the day. And like I was just telling you, it feels like you could still play, man. You could still move around a little bit.

[B]

Like I told you, I don't know about all that.

[A]

Now for everybody listening, we were just talking about the. The rigors of. Of growing old. So for everybody listening, not only are you somebody who's still around the game of baseball, but you actually were someone who played the game at the pro level. I want to talk about your career, but kind of before growing up. So we're the same age. We're both 44. When you were coming through high school, I know for me on the west coast, we really didn't have travel baseball. Right. It was like a lot of American Legion. And I remember there was one team in the Northern California area that was a travel baseball team, but it wasn't this thing that it is today. What was your experience like, you know, at 16, 17, 18, coming into the end of high school?

[B]

A lot different than it is today. I mean, a lot different than it was a couple of years after I got out of college. For me personally, growing up in Oxford, Alabama, football, number one, I mean, that's where we are. But with baseball, we would just have an American Legion team that was basically our high school team. That dad or granddad, we had a granddad, one of my best buddies that would sure would coach us. His name was One Eye Fulton. Long story. Shout out to him, hey, One Eye's the man.

[A]

Love to send this to him.

[B]

Legend. He's such a legend. But no, he, you know, he would coach us. We had a blast. We would go play any other American Legion team, which I never quite understood the league or whatever, but we would. We drive to Birmingham. We go to just across the state line. Where we are in Oxford is about 30 minutes from the Georgia, Alabama state line. And I don't know exactly when east Cobb, kind of the whole travel ball circuit started taking off. I know it. It had started then, but I didn't. I didn't know anything about it. And so, you know, at 16, 17 years old, we play what, 30, 35 games in high school. And then in the, in the summer, we play another 20, 25 games. And then it'd be on to football.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So it's. It's a totally different setup.

[A]

Do you remember Chad Durbin?

[B]

I do, yeah.

[A]

So, funny story. So I'm obviously an agent at the time. Chad Durbin was one of our clients and I was out eating with him one day and he told me about his idea towards the tail end of his career. And it was essentially what Perfect Game has become. You know, this travel baseball thing is starting to pick up. I want to create kind of a, an organization that puts all these games together. And I remember at the time thinking like, well, that sounds like a lot of work. Like, I'm not sure how you're going to do this. And then it's funny because now fast forward to look to see what actually Perfect Game in some of these other organizations have become. I mean, it's, it's truly all encompassing. Right? So, okay, so back in high school, obviously you played a lot of American Legion ball as you were going through kind of, you know, figuring out what you were going to do at the next level, where you wanted to go. You ended up in Mississippi State. But what were the colleges that you were considering? What was that like?

[B]

I mean, for me, I'm the fourth of five boys. My dad was a college football coach at Jacksonville State. My older brothers were athletes and played. I was fortunate when I was a freshman and sophomore in high school to get to play shortstop next to my older brother Tony, who was a junior and senior. Those two years he, he played second base. So it was super cool. He went to Jacksonville State to play. He got a scholarship to play there. For me, kind of growing up, I didn't know. I mean, you don't, you know, nowadays 11 and 12 year olds are told how good they are. I didn't, I mean, I knew I was a solid player, but I was always fighting to be the best player in the city parks and the city leagues. And there was always somebody bigger, faster, stronger than me. And so I was always just fighting. I was a younger brother too, so I'm just fighting to get scraps at the table. That kind of, that kind of mindset. But I remember coming up through, I remember the first time I was kind of thinking about, man, it'd be really cool if I could go to like an Alabama, Birmingham, uab. It was only an hour from home. I didn't know anything about them, but I just, you know, it was no way for us to get educated on colleges. And the SEC was all around. Alabama was really strong at the time. Auburn was solid. I didn't know what I didn't know at the time. And then I had a couple of, I guess, breakout seasons my sophomore year. Kind of had a good season in high school and then had a good summer. Couple of bigger schools, Alabama, Auburn, started kind of reaching out with some letters and that kind of stuff. That's how old I am. Letters.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

Kids don't even know what a letter is now. But I remember thinking like in my head I'm one of those guys. I was thinking like, am I really good enough to play at that level? Like, I don't know what those baseball players look like because I was still, I mean, I was a quarterback in football and I loved it equally to baseball. I really did. So it kind of started. That started it. And then I got told how, you know, you start getting told how good you are and if you believe it, then you won't, you, you won't make it very far. And I, I never really believe the hype. But for me, the big break was I had to make a really tough decision. After my junior summer, I got invited to the east coast pro workout, which back in the day there wasn't the, there weren't the tryouts. It was just, you got invited by a scout, you went straight to Wilmington, North Carolina, and it was seven or eight teams of just dudes. Yep. And we were the Mets. I was number 55. I remember it like it was yesterday and I remember just being like, I didn't, I didn't know I was short until I got to that. I didn't know I was going to be on the shorter end. That's how naive I was. But I got to that and there were just, just athletes everywhere, you know, bigger, faster, stronger, and went there and ran a good 60 time, had a solid arm, had good rounds of BP. I remember not, you know, 90 now. My 14, 15 year old kids in the program, they 90, it's okay, you know, 90 then we had never seen it, I mean, look like a ping pong ball coming in there to me. And I faced it every single, every single at bat and all these guys were trying to throw, you know, as hard as they could. And I got hit a bunch. I didn't think I swung a bat very well, but I remember some coaches telling my dad, you know, like, hey, on, I think the day was maybe August 1st. I don't remember exactly. They said, hey, on that day he's going to start getting tons of letters and calls and all this stuff. And I still didn't really believe it because I didn't think I played that well at it. But that was where Mississippi State happened to be there. I didn't know much about them. Coach Tommy Raffo was a guy who introduced himself to my dad, one of the best human beings I've ever met, but I still wasn't sure where I was going to go. And so then we took my dad, being college football coach, looked at me and said, you will take all five of your official visits. You will not tell any of these schools that you're committing to them until you take all five of your visits. So we did. And, you know, Mississippi State was in there because of Tommy Raffo, the conversations. He was a great guy. Ended up coming down to Mississippi State and Alabama. For me, coach Mitch Gaspard was one of the main reasons I was considering Alabama and think the world of him. And so I narrowed it down. But then, man, it took me a while. Like, it took me about a month to try to figure it out, because I didn't. I was blown away when I went to Starkville. I'd never been there in my life. If you haven't been there. They treated baseball like we treat football in the state of Alabama, and it blew me away. I didn't know so many people would show up to a college baseball game. And coach Pat McMahon was the head coach, Coach Jim Case, Coach Tommy Rafa, Coach Ron Polk was the assistant athletic director at the time. And, man, it just kind of. Kind of blew me away. And it just felt. It felt right. But I couldn't believe I was about to just go over to Mississippi. I didn't know anything about that state. I mean, I'd never really spent any time over there. And, man, when I tell you, I'm grateful that my dad made me take all my visits. I'm grateful that nobody pressured me into a quick decision because, you know, it gave me time to pray about it, to talk to my. My family. They wouldn't give me any advice. I kept looking at my mom.

[A]

Oh, interesting.

[B]

Oh, I was like. I was like, hey, what do you guys think about. They're like, hey, wherever you want. And they told me straight up, they were like, hey, financially, we can handle whatever, man. I'm the fourth of five boys. We didn't have money, Right. And so I wanted to get the biggest scholarship for my family to make it easier. And fortunately, the offers were the exact same. And that was fortunate. But then it was unfortunate because it made my decision even harder between the two.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And so, you know, like I said, a lot of thought and prayer and decided that Mississippi State was the right choice. And it was kind of crazy, though. Like, Alabama was kind of wide Open on the infield. They had lost Andy Phillips, who was an All American. He was a senior of the. It was kind of wide open. Mississippi State had a senior coming back at shortstop, second and third, like each one of those positions. And I just kind of was like, I wasn't trying to look for, hey, a handout of like, I'm guaranteed to get to play. I wanted to go earn it. And that's, that's how I made that decision.

[A]

Do you feel like part of that was because I've. One of the things that I've always tried to help guys understand is there's so much emotion going on when you make these decisions. Right. So if you get recruited by a number of different schools, you're trying to like, okay, how do I remove the emotion? Go through this process logically and then make a logical decision. Do you think that when you ultimately chose Mississippi State it was like, I can't really describe it, it just feels right.

[B]

Yeah, it was a lot of that because they're really like, if you started thinking logically, Alabama, right, You'd say Alabama with the opportunity, opportunity to come in. I mean they had, you know, all coaches tell you this, but they had said, hey, you would be the front runner for shortstop. You know, Mississippi State said, they, you know, I was a huge prospect and they wanted me and all that stuff, but I wasn't stupid. Travis Chapman, who was an All American, he's first base coach for the Yankees now. He was, he had played short the year before and hit 400. And so I was like, I don't, I'm not sure I'm going to go into the SEC and hit 400 right out the gate. But I think on the logical side, it probably would have made more sense to go to Alabama, but it just felt right. The. And that's what I don't like when kids get rushed. I don't like when kids feel like they have to rush to make a decision. And that's why I'm really grateful over my time of doing what I've done, you know, since playing pro ball and starting the baseball academy. I'm grateful the NCAA instituted this new rule where they can be the August 1st. That's the best thing they've done since I've been in this position where I am the August 1st after your junior, you know, your 16 year old summer. It protects those young kids and it protects those coaches. Man, everybody looks at like the kids as a villain or the coaches as a villain, man, they're all put in really tough Positions, like if you don't, if you're a coach and you don't go after these 14 year olds who are studs, somebody else is and you're going to miss out on them. And so like, I think it's a great rule that has been, that has helped these kids be more mature, another year more mature to make a wiser decision and, you know, where they want to go and you know, get their degree and play the game of baseball well.

[A]

And I, we've all kind of heard of the numbers where, you know, back in the day when you could actually commit kids when they were in eighth grade and ninth grade, you would see these kids commit at that age and then, you know, three, four years later, it's, you know, the guy decommits because the coach is gone or, you know, the player hasn't developed quite like they expected. And so, yeah, it became apparent that it's not necessarily what's best for the kids to be able to commit them that early. And to your point, it's also not best for the schools. I don't think anybody looked at that and enjoyed that process. So I couldn't agree with you more.

[B]

Yeah, I always feel for those coaches, like college baseball coaches, you know, when a kid has to be, you know, released or his off his scholarship offer cut or, you know, he has to decommit, everybody goes after the college and they immediately go after those coaches. And man, they are in such an awful spot with all the changes happening now, but with the lack of scholarships, the roster changes constantly, they truly don't know exactly what they're going to have. And now nowadays, when you throw in the portal, when you throw in all the changes that are happening, these guys, I feel for them, I think their jobs are some of the hardest jobs in America. And I think that I don't like when people act like, man, they're awful, I can't believe they quit on that. Boy, the truth is like, it's just like if, you know, like I tell my kids, like if you're in a relationship with somebody and you think it might not work out, you need to go ahead and do that. Then you're trying to be nice and hold onto it. But the truth is, if you truly respect them, end it now. Yeah, you know, it's hard, it's hard to do that. And that's what those college coaches and those colleges have to do. But it really frees up these players to be able to go and play and get into a better situation than what they were going to have.

[A]

Well, and so when you were coming through, too, you know, when you committed to a college, like, the expectation was, you know, and you may have thought of pro ball at that point, which I'd love to get into, but you're still thinking, like, okay, I'm gonna commit to a school and I'm gonna be there for the next however many years, where today it seems like, all right, it's kind of free agency. Like, I'm committing to a place really, for one year. And that goes both ways, too.

[B]

Yeah, it does.

[A]

Right from the player. It's okay. I'm committed to this place. And let's just say it's a smaller school because I don't have an opportunity to go to the sec. But if I go to this smaller school and perform well, then my chance to go to the SEC only grows after that. And so it's almost like certain conferences become, like, development for maybe a bigger conference. So I don't even think we've seen, you know, five years into the future. Like, I feel like we could be looking at something so much different. And so, especially with the NIL piece, there's going to be so much that starts to develop that. Yeah. I mean, the one thing that I can tell you as a constant is the college game is certainly a business. Would you describe your experience in college? Did you feel like it was a business for you then?

[B]

No, not at all. No, not at all. I don't want to sound like the old salty guy or anything like that. I do hate it for kids, and I hate it for fans, too, that, you know, when you have some freshman coming in that's supposed to be good and he can contribute early, that, you know, you're going to get to see him for at least three years, maybe even four, you know, if the draft doesn't work out after the junior year, it's just, you know, in today's world, when you start putting money into it, you start involving money, it's not so much an amateur sport anymore. I mean, and you can't blame the kids. I mean, you can't blame kids for. If somebody's out offering more money than where he is or, you know, if he's at a smaller school but he's performing, and then he can. Knows he can get paid and get to a bigger, you know, higher level to possibly help himself in the draft, you can't blame them. I mean, you can't. That's what. For me, it was a. I knew when I was going there, hey, this is where I'M going to be, hopefully for. My goal was to be there for three years. Ended up, I was so good, they left me there for four. And so. And so, you know, for me, I knew I was going to be there. I got asked when all the nil stuff started happening, the portal started happening. You know, a lot of coaches, we talked to a lot of coaches just about our kids and stuff. They'd be like, hey, man, you know, talking about how big of a mess it is for them and like, you know, what would you have done? Would you have left Mississippi State? And I said, well. And the truth, I mean, those guys were incredible guys. So I don't think they would have ever done me or any of our guys wrong. But if they were put into a bad position, I understand, but for me, I mean, I was pretty highly touted coming in, so I probably would have gotten some decent money to come in as a freshman, had started every game as a freshman, was a freshman all American, probably would have gotten more money. Was a preseason first team all American going into my sophomore year. And back in the day, that was the year that you kill it. Your sophomore year, you go to the cape, you kill it, you make some money the next year. So that was my goal. That's what I was going to do. And so they probably would have given me more money that year and came out and started out on a 10 game hit streak and then opted out of hitting for the rest of the year. Man, I was trying to hit.350 with 10 and I ended up hitting.235 with none.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And I played every game and I felt like I was hurting my team, but they were, they believed in me. And defensively I had a really, really good year. I think led the country in fielding percentage, whatever, but I felt like I was hurting my team because I was scuffling. I was trying so much. It was never. And all hitters, you play the game. You know, even when I'd hit a single in my head, I was like, I should have driven that ball to the gap. That's got to be a double or a homer. It's got to be extra bases. It was never good enough. So I was constantly just trying, trying, trying, making the game harder than it should have been. So, like I tell everybody, probably would have been getting paid a lot of money my sophomore year and then I didn't produce on the field. So I would have either gotten my money chopped or I would have gotten chopped. And you know, and then if, if they cut my money it probably would have hurt my feelings, so I probably would have jumped in the pool. I don't know. Yeah, I'm grateful I didn't have that right. I'm grateful that it wasn't around. I mean, but that. Who know. I mean, my whole story would probably be completely different, which, like I said, I don't know who. There's no. No certain party to blame, whether not the kids, it's not the coaches. It's. It's just as an entire organization, like with NCAA kind of trying to police this thing. It's just kind of the wild, wild west.

[A]

It really is.

[B]

To be honest, it's crazy.

[A]

Well, as much as people try to clean it up, I feel like there's. There's just, you know, it's almost like this constantly, ever evolving organism that is just gonna take shape and change and grow and adapt, and I don't know that anybody can truly steer the ship. You know, there are some people, I think, that would say it's better now than it was before. There are others that would say, no, it was much better before than it is now. The one constant, though, as I. I will say, as I think about this, is players today at least, are able to capitalize at a level that they definitely weren't able to before. But with that comes, I mean, a ton of growing pains, too. Right. Like just speaking about football for a moment, you know, the quarterback at. At Tennessee who ended up going to ucla. Like, people I'm sure could criticize him for how he handled that. Other people may say, hey, it was his right. He should do that. So there's not a right or a wrong answer. But I do just think, you know, for those that are coming behind all the players today that are currently in college, I think it's even more reason why when you have people like you running organizations, how it's no longer just about teaching them about baseball. It's really helping them kind of make life decisions. And making sure, as you said, is what your. Your parents allowed you to do, which is like, don't rush it. Take your time. Make sure you have the advice and education and guidance. Yeah. Because it's. It's an overwhelming thing.

[B]

Yeah, for sure.

[A]

I mean, think about when you were making the decision on college. Yeah. Throw into that. Oh, by the way, this school's offering you 50 grand. This school's offering you 100 grand. This school's offering you nothing. Where does that come into play?

[B]

I can't even. I don't even know what that would have done to Me, mentally, because I. I was a. I'm very grateful for what my parents did for us. I know we, like I said, we didn't have money. We. I didn't realize that our was so tiny until I drive back, you know, up there, and I realized there were five boys and two parents in that house. And. But, like, to me, it was plenty big enough.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Everything we had was awesome. We had a soded backyard, and I thought it was the coolest thing ever. And. But if it was something like that, where I could have helped my parents financially, because, I mean, you got to think I was. They had. They had three of us driving, you know, useful drivers. So, like, just insurance alone, when you start thinking about insurance, you start thinking about providing cars, all that stuff. I know it was a stretch, and I'm so. I was always so grateful to my parents for that that if somebody would have offered me an extra 25,000 on top of, you know, even if I thought this school might be a better fit for me, I don't know how I would have turned that down.

[A]

Right.

[B]

To be able to say, hey, mom and Dad, I got this. I'll. I'll pay for my car. You don't have to pay for gas. Like, I. I don't know how I would have turned it down. I really don't.

[A]

So going into professional baseball, so you obviously end up signing. You get drafted in the eighth round in 2003.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Okay. So you end up getting drafted by the Rays. Funny enough, the Rays had just became a major league organization a handful of years before. So you enter an organization where I went back and I looked. It was like there was a different scouting director for like three, four years in a row, a different gm, you know, at the very beginning of your career. So as you start with this organization, was pro ball what you expected?

[B]

Yes and no. I enjoyed my time in Pro Bowl. I didn't. I have to choose my words wisely here. I didn't. The part of it that I didn't enjoy as much was where it turned me and everybody around me into, man, I got to go 1 for 3 with a walk and get my average up, get my own base percentage up, make the plays defensively, and then get the heck out of this level and go to the next level. And it took the emphasis off of the scoreboard. And for me, when I look back on you, I feel like you could ask so many ballplayers that are finished playing, you ask them what they miss about, would they go out? Would you go back and Play for me, I'd go back and play high school. I'd go back and play college baseball. Right now. If you told me I had to go play minor league baseball, I'd be like, okay. But it's only because baseball is a team sport where it's bigger than one individual. It always has been, always will be. And when a team comes together and everybody puts all the individual accolades and stats, you know, out of their mind, and all they focus on is that scoreboard and competing against the other team, that is the most fun you will have on a baseball field at any level. It doesn't matter if it's junior high, high school, travel ball, college, whatever. And so I do have some regrets on how I went into professional baseball. And I kind of got stuck in. I mean, we were playing 140 games in 150 days, and I played almost all of them every year. I mean, I maybe have, like, four games off every year. And, I mean, it's hard. I mean, you could have a great day, feel like you got it all figured out, and the very next day you come out and you're like, I feel like I've never swung a bat before. And so it kind of made me think about myself more than I ever had in my life. And I. I don't. I didn't enjoy that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It kind of took the purpose of the game and the. The fun of the game. And I'm not saying, look, pro professional baseball, I met so many great dudes that I still keep in contact with. I wouldn't trade it for anything. I am not trying to. I'm telling you, it's a regret that I have more than anything. But pro ball, I mean, it provided awesome competition, you know, the baseball community. I know you know this. You've been around it for a while now. It's crazy how intertwined, like, we all are and, you know, from scouts to agents to coaches to players to everybody. Amazing. The contacts, and it's such a cool thing. It's. It's a close. It's a close unit that can, you know, it provides relationships for the rest of my life, and I'm very appreciative of that. I think I wasn't ready for that. Pro ball. Yeah.

[A]

I don't know if anybody really is right. I asked the client, actually, in spring training, funny enough, who's playing with the Tampa Rays right now, and this guy's bounced around, spent 10 years in the minor leagues before he got to the big leagues. And I asked him, I said his name Is Jamie. I said, Jamie, taking you Back to the 18 year old kid who was signing out of high school. What could I have told you back then that would have saved you so much time and energy trying to learn all these lessons by yourself? And the point wasn't, there's one little thing I could tell you, and then it's like, oh, I drank the Kool Aid and now I understand. But he had just finished talking about how he learned so many valuable lessons. And obviously for me it's like, okay, I want to deliver that to you earlier before you have to, you know, sacrifice and go do all this stuff. Is there anything I could have said? And he's like, oh man, I got to think about this. And he ended up literally telling me like, I don't know, let me think about it and I'll, I'll get back to you. And to be honest with you, I never thought he was going to get back to me on it. I thought this was just something he'd be like, yeah, I don't know. He ends up calling me back about two weeks later and he says to me, he goes, you know, Matt, I think if you would have told me, don't worry about, and this is going to sound funny, don't worry about the performance on the field. Be okay if baseball wasn't in your life, try to find confidence in yourself without baseball and then baseball will become so much easier to deal with. Now imagine saying that to an 18 year old kid and like that actually resonating, like, yeah, right. He would have told me, you're crazy, man. Like, no, baseball's the only thing I have. But it was such an interesting point because here's somebody who's now 30 years old, who's learned all these lessons and recognizes now, having learned that one lesson, he is able to show up to the field and play so much more free and easy, no longer just killing himself because of the result. And I think it's funny that, you know, he's got a family now, he's got a wife and a son. And I think that plays into it too. Right? And specifically speaking about you, obviously you've been married for a long time. You know, I was fortunate enough to know your wife and where, where did she come into the picture as far as like, because I know how important your family is to you. At what point did you start to see the benefits of having a family so that when you went home from the game, you're like, oh man, I can like block some of this stuff out.

[B]

So you, you're starting to go down a road that I, I'm very passionate about. And we get to, I get to still be involved with a lot of players that are in pro ball that came through our organization and you know, trying to explain to them that, you know, you give it everything you've got. You go out when you go to work, you, you, you give everything, all the focus, everything off the field goes away when you're on, you know, in, in the weight room, working out, bp, early bp, all the extra work that you do, but when it's over, it's over. And I, I try to, I try to help these kids understand that earlier. The sooner you can understand that. And that's really cool of your, you know, your client. Like, it is such a mental grind. It's not everybody talks about the physical side of it, but it's the mental grind that having, knowing your self worth outside of baseball. You know what? You know, for me, it was my faith, my faith and my family that was, that was why being finished with baseball never scared me. Like, it never scared me. My wife, I mean, dude, I don't even know where to start. Like you talk about. I mean, she was my first date when I was 15. She was 16. She came to Mississippi State with me. She was a year older than me. Once I signed there in November, she transferred from Jacksonville State to Mississippi State. So she technically got there before me. Tells everybody I followed her, which is a joke, absolute joke. That doesn't work for me. And so I spent time with her. And then my senior year in college, she had gotten a job in Birmingham. And when I got drafted the very next day, I got engaged to her. Bought a ring the next day, got engaged. We had been dating for almost eight years, I believe it was. And I told her, I was like, I'm gonna be going to spring training St. Pete and go into wherever they send me, which I thought was gonna be out in California. And I was like, I really would love for you to come with me, but I'm not gonna ask you to give up your career. And she was like, no, I'd rather come with you. She gave up her career for me.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I made a mental note, didn't tell her this, but I was like, she'll never work another day in her life unless she wants to. And I meant that. And to this day it's, if she wants to work, she can work. I will never, I will go work an extra job if I have to support our family. But she was there like she Knows the grind, man, it's so unique what she's gotten to experience that, you know, she was. We're out in the Cali League playing in Bakersfield, which is a beautiful, beautiful place that was very nice to play. It was tough. I went from the sec, Mississippi State to Bakersfield, California and Bakersfield. The, the facilities, the buses, all the stuff, I'm just, It was, it was not just one step backwards, it was a lot of steps back. And, you know, she came out there with me. Well, man, I'm making. She was on my insurance because she didn't have a job. And so every two weeks we got paid twice a month. I think my first couple checks are like 300 bucks each, you know, and the rent was a thousand bucks out there. And, and so, you know, next thing I know, she's voluntarily, she's. She double majored in four years of Mississippi State. She had a real job, and she's voluntarily working at Tahoe Joe's out in California, out in Bakersfield. So it was a steakhouse, and she'd make more in one night than I would in my, you know, couple of weeks. And I just always, I felt a little bit of guilt, to be honest. But she was such a thoughtful, selfless person that, that made it where, man, I'm not going to be selfish when I go over four with three, you know, the hat trick and, you know, 3K burgers and coming back to the house and pouting and not talking and, man, it made it where it was so much easier on me. And I'm so grateful that she was able to come with me to each level. And, you know, my final year, we had had our daughter. Emerson, who just graduated high school, is going to college at Alabama Huntsville next year. I was in the middle of a road trip in AAA and had five more days in Rochester, New York. We were in Syracuse. And it just hit me one day. I was like, I think it's time.

[A]

Yeah, I was gonna ask you about that.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I, I just, I. I don't know. It just hit me. I don't. I, you know, I thought about it. That off season, I was just telling her had some stuff had to. Our insurance was so good that, you know, had some health stuff, had some vision stuff going on. I told her, I was like, hey, I don't want to spend any more money. She goes, hey, spend the money. Give it, Give it your best shot. And then I said, but if it's no different, I'm not going to just keep doing this because what we would do is every off season, I do lessons, all that stuff, try to make as much, save as much as I could. We'd spend every dime for a season. And here she's double majored with a degree. I had a degree. And we're just treading water. And so I had a good spring training, went to AAA for my second year and was in the middle of a 10 day roadie in Syracuse and it just kinda hit. You kind of hit me where I was like, man, I feel like we need to go live in that house that we're paying for back home and I think we need to start moving forward. I'm not one of those that has excuses. I'm not that guy who's gonna say, hey, man, I was gonna make to big leagues, but blew out my shoulder. It's none of that stuff. There's no excuses. I. I might have gotten a chance, but the way I looked at it was it wasn't about just getting there. It was, I got to stay there to support my. And it made me. The sad truth of it is minor league baseball then, which is way better now, it kind of starved us so much. Where my main focus was getting to big leagues to support my family financially. It took it out of just, hey, I just want, I want to be a big leaguer. It wasn't like that for me. I had to get there to support my family because I just felt like I was kind of holding them back. And she'll kill me for saying this, but I mean, it really did. It played a factor in it. And I called her and told her, hey, give me a flight back home from Rochester. And she was. The only thing she said was, promise me it's not about money. And I was like, kind of the leader of this family I'm trying to support. And so I told her. I was like, it's just the game's not what it was and it's not a status thing. I don't have to play a day in the big leagues to say I'm a big leaguer. I was like, man, I'm proud of everything I've done. It's been awesome. I'm ready to start moving forward with our family and whatever the next phase is.

[A]

Well, and that's why this is why I'm so vocal about faith too. Because it's. I wonder how you would have handled that situation if you weren't a man of faith. Right?

[B]

Not even close.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I mean, that's the one constant. My parents growing up, priority number One, your relationship to God, Nothing else mattered. Nothing. And, you know, the way they always. They kind of lined it up. God, family, whatever's important to you after that. And I'm so grateful. This is another thing, going back to that travel ball thing. We didn't play games on Sundays growing up. And, you know, if there was ever a moment. I grew up in the Catholic Church. I'm still Catholic now. It fits our family and our personality. We love it. And for baseball reasons, it's way easier because you have different options. Go on a Saturday evening or multiple ones on Sunday morning. But growing up, we never played on a Sunday, and they wouldn't have let us play on a Sunday just because that was a day that we were going to eat my mom's pasta at the house and have as many Italians over as we could. And it was all about family. But they helped all of us, myself and my brothers, just prioritize what was important. And, man, that faith is the reason that my whole entire family, we're not perfect, but a lot of really good people that are trying to make a positive impact on a lot of lives. That was the key to me having everything I've ever accomplished. I mean, what I've accomplished earlier today, whatever it may be, is all because of my faith. And if there is. If that hadn't have been kind of ingrained into me by the way my parents lived and the way that they tried to help us focus on our faith, I can't even imagine. I just can't imagine life without. Without that. I really can't.

[A]

I think about how many players that are faced with some of the same, you know, stresses. They got to pro ball. It was always their dream. They spent a handful of years in the minor leagues, and they're getting to a place in their career where, as you say, you know, the business side of it really starts to take hold, right? And somebody like you who went to a really good college and you had that team environment, you truly felt like you were responsible for the, you know, your role in the performance of that team. To get to pro ball and then to experience kind of the flip side of baseball as a business. And I think about guys who maybe hang on a little bit too long, right? And then you see them later and you see how, you know, whether that's. And, look, everybody's journey is their journey. I'm certainly not saying one is right and one is wrong, but I've had to have many conversations with guys who, you know, they've now had a family, they've gotten to a point, maybe they're in their 30s now and then they go to independent ball. And I think one of the thing that, that really, I just want to make sure that I talk to guys about is, you know, getting back to what I'd call pro ball. Like, if you're an independent ball, getting back to affiliated baseball, like that journey is a tough one. And let's just say you're even lucky enough to go to independent ball and then get back into pro ball and, or get back into affiliated ball. It's not as if like, oh, you're back. So like, just go play. You're gonna get every day at bats and like, keep doing well and you're gonna get a shot. I mean, the game is getting younger and younger. So these organizations evaluate you and age is a huge component, one of the biggest components. And so I do think about, with what you've shared, how so many other players would benefit by hearing this. And it's, and that's why I brought up the faith. Because I think for those who maybe aren't men of God or have a faith, you know, I can understand why it would be really scary. Like, what am I gonna do?

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

Like, my identity is wrapped up in me being a baseball player. I'm not shutting it down.

[B]

Yep. I was always, I always felt, I wouldn't say sorry, but you know, I played with guys who were older and I remember when I first started, I realized there were 30 year olds in AA and I was kind of was in shock. I was like, that's crazy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I remember telling my wife, Kim, I was just like, hey, I'm not going to be 30 in double A, Trust me. Where I got nervous was me being a defensive shortstop who was just steady on shortstop. I mean, offensively I needed work constantly, just constantly working on offense. But defensively it was, it was pretty easy and I was pretty steady and they knew I could play any infield position, all that stuff. I started looking at some of those older guys that were in double A and AAA that had never been in the big leagues or had gotten a cup of coffee in the big leagues. And there were always catchers and infielders, like really mainly shortstops. Defensive shortstops. Because it helps just, you know, having, you know, those guys are always going to be the leaders. They're going to be the guys that know what to do. They're going to show younger guys how to play and be professional. And that was when I saw that. And it kind of scared me. Where I was like, man, I hope they don't think I'm one of these guys that has to be playing professional baseball because it's my full identity. It's not. And you know, and I played with guys and like some of those guys you were talking about who go to indie ball and then trying to get back, man, I respect the heck out of those guys.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

I mean the amount of determination, the amount of just grit that it takes to do that, because those are not, that's not a pretty job. None of that stuff is. And I always just hope, anytime I'd ever hear that, I always just hope, I hope it's not because we're scared of the real world. We're scared of life after baseball. Because life after baseball, man, and I tell kids this all the time. Baseball life is amazing. It's awesome. I wouldn't trade it for anything. I don't have any negative anything to say about it. Life after baseball equally as awesome. It really is. If you have a foundation, faith in God, a solid family, you know, it is so much fun and there are so many challenges and there's so many things that I get asked all the time. You miss it, don't you? I was like, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't miss it. I was like, I miss the camaraderie with the, a lot of the guys, but I get to keep in touch with them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If I'm a good friend, I'm keeping in touch. I was like, as far as, like I did, I did what I did. I mean, it is what it is and I can't, I can't go back and change anything. And I don't have any regrets. I do try to. Some of the stuff that I wish I would have maybe thought about or learned at a younger age, trying to help pass it on. Now this is where the blessing for me is excel baseball.

[A]

Well, so I'm glad you brought that up because I want to jump into your guys organization.

[B]

I mean, dude, in 2003, my best friend Josh B. Shears was pitching an indie ball short right handed pitcher who.

[A]

Shoved all through college for calling him short.

[B]

It's okay, he knows. So he shoved all through college, doesn't get a chance with affiliated team goes to Kalamazoo, Michigan. All right. I come back from Charleston with the Rays. I'm like, dude, I gotta get a job. I got, I'm about to get married. I've got to have money. I didn't realize that I didn't Realize that we weren't going to make money in minor league ball, like we're going to lose money. And so we started looking. I interview with a couple of people and I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm about to do a 8 to 5 job that I'm not interested in. And then he looks at me. He had talked to some guys up where he was playing and he was like, hey, I think we could do some lessons. I was like, man, nobody would pay for lessons. What are you talking about? See, it's just a world I didn't know. And man, we put some flyers in the little middle school folders and we're packed from day one. And it's been the biggest blessing for me because. And it's one of the reasons I can tell you, hey, I don't miss the game because I get to help, try to help and guide and be a part of these kids who are chasing their dreams. And when I tell you it is more rewarding helping somebody else than it is, you know, any individual accolades that you have, it is, it has been the biggest blessing for me because I'm still involved in the game that I love and I get to still be involved in young men's, you know, journeys of trying to, to do the best they can through this game.

[A]

So you guys have how many different teams, like age wise?

[B]

So we, we started out with just one team, a 17 year old team that was in 2009. The truth is, I didn't know enough about it. I told you I grew up in Legion ball. I got out of the game and I think 08, right around 08. And then Josh and my other buddy I played with Mississippi State, Steve Gendron, he had, he was with the Marlins organization. He had moved up there and did lessons in the off season and then he had gotten out of the game. Both of them had gotten out of the game a year before me. And they were like, hey, we need to put together a team. And I was like, man, I don't believe in that stuff. I was, you know, just that hard old school. Just like, man, you don't need that if you're good. Like my dad always said, if you're good enough, they'll find you. Yeah, you know, I was like, man, I don't believe in that. I'm not doing it. I don't want to be a part of it. You guys knock yourselves out. Like, you know, any money you make, I don't want it. Like, just do. Well then I went and watched them and I was, I was at virtually every game that summer and I was just in shock. I didn't know that colleges, that's how they recruited. I had no idea. This is 2008, I think. And I was just kind of in shock. And I was like, man, that is something that provides for these kids. Like, this is the way of the world now. I didn't know that colleges didn't recruit high school during the high school season hardly at all. So that's how we started it. Then I started a 15 year old team the next year. So we just went two teams for a couple of years and we slowly got up to right at 10 teams. Now we've been at 10 teams for probably five or six years. We are in the minority of, you know, if your check clears you, you don't have a spot on our team. If we don't have the right person coaching, if we don't have a good man, good leader who knows the game, we're not going to create a team. And if just because we have 15 kids that just want to play for our organization, if we don't feel like it's a good product or we can put something out that we will be proud of that will be good for those kids, we're not going to do it. So we still cut a lot of kids every year. And I know it hurts feelings and I know, but we're being honest with people like, hey, we could take your money and your kid could be the 13th, 14th, 15th player and never get to play, but we just don't. And fortunately for us, we all have our big boy jobs. We all own businesses on our own. And then this is just like something that we do because we absolutely love it. We do make money from it. I'm not sitting here saying we don't profit from it, but it's not. That's not why we do it. I can promise you that. Yeah, like it's been a huge blessing. And a lot of the kids that we've been able to come in contact with, I just, it's way bigger than myself and Josh from that September of 2003 when we started it. I can't. It was us that started it. We were bigger than Excel. Excel is way bigger than us. It impacts so many more than I ever dreamed it would. It's been a blessing.

[A]

How do you guys reconcile? When I think about it from my standpoint, right, like, I'm in a business that on the surface people are like, oh, agents can't be trusted. And I feel like in the travel baseball world, it's like, there's a lot of the same stuff, like, oh, you're a travel baseball organization. Yeah. You're just trying to take our money and send us to tournaments. How do you guys ensure that? I mean, knowing you, I'm not worried that you're doing those things. I'm more worried about, like, how do you convey the messaging to families that are. Maybe have a preconceived notion about you?

[B]

I mean, that's a great question. I think that the truth is always gonna be action. Action above words. Anybody can say anything, right? I can sit here and tell you how great we are and how perfect we are, and we're going to treat every kid equally and we're going to do great and every kid's going to love it. I mean, I could say whatever I want to. And a lot of people believe. People believe what they want to believe. We try to educate, I think, educating parents, educating kids from the beginning of like, you know, when we get told, hey, we want him to be a shortstop on, you know, we want him to be your starting shortstop, we're like, we're not giving that to anybody. Like, you've got to earn it. Once you earn it, yeah, it's yours. And we go about it in an old school manner of, you know, we'll tell them everybody's gonna get their opportunities. We have small rosters. People are shocked that I've come out here to carry right now, and people are shocked that I have 11 position players and they're just like, I don't know how you do that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I'm like, all I need is nine. I mean, I mean, they let us hit 11, but I mean, if I don't want to hit 11, if I think a guy doesn't give us the best chance, or I'd rather rest him for the next. Whatever it may be, I would rather have a smaller roster. You know, if injuries happen, we. We're able to, you know, we've got enough connections to do it. But, but to talk about, I mean, I think it really is about action being the guys. When you say something, when we tell the parents in our parent meeting before the summer, hey, this is what you can expect from us. This is what you can expect from the recruiting side. This is what you can expect from whatever it may be, what we're going to demand of each kid and how we're going to act and then holding ourselves accountable and then holding everyone else accountable. I think that's the way that and Then our whole business for the last 22 years has been a word of mouth. And so, like, I think that word of mouth has kind of gotten out where it's like a, hey, they're not like everybody where they're going to, you know, have a ton of teams and they're going to, you know, go out there and just play some guy's kid because he makes more money than this other guy. Because we don't care who you are. We've had big leaguers whose kids play for us. And if you're not good enough, we don't. It's not, you're not going to be out there if it, if it's a situation, a playoff game or something, we're going to play the best ones because that's real life.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it teaches kids bigger than just having, you know, something handed to them. So on the agent side, I mean, I understand completely. I mean that's, it's kind of the same thing. I think it's about action and people like doing the research, getting to know guys and understanding, you know, talk to the guys that you represented. Talk to some that don't like you. Talk to some that do. Like, you find out everything you can. Because on the agent side of things, everybody looks out, you know, like, like they're almost like ambulance chasing lawyers or blood suckers or anything like that. You guys are trying to do the best you can at what your job is, and that's representing these players. And it's a lot of good guys that kind of get a bad rap more than anything. And that now there are some just like with us.

[A]

Of course there are some.

[B]

There are some people that you don't really want your name associated with. I definitely have some in my field that I'm not interested in being. Oh, he's a travel ball guy. Like so and so. Yeah. And I'm not, I don't, I don't enjoy that. And I'm sure you have the same thing.

[A]

Oh, no question. I've always said too, it's like, and I, I love what you said about it's all about action. But it, you know, as far as the agent thing goes, it's like, I think every agent gets into the business with the right intentions. I don't think someone's like, I want to be an agent so I could take advantage of people.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

But it's really a matter of like, what does the business become for you? Is it just a way to make money? Because in the travel baseball world, same thing applies. If you're in the travel baseball world as an organization or a coach just to make money, then that is going to lead you to do certain things. That's right. And so over time, you start to see like, oh, okay, this guy's different. He does it different. We've given him plenty of opportunities and he's come through every single time. How do you guys handle the development piece? I mean, is it like, you know, you guys have individual player plans? How does that whole thing work?

[B]

I think each one is different. You know, like we, where we are, we're not in a huge city, so we don't have a, you know, for the level that we would like to play, you know, with our teams, like, we have to go out basically throughout the state. And so for us, I think each one is different. Obviously, if it's a local, we have, we have an indoor facility. We've had it since 03, and we get in there and get after it and have all that. But ultimately, in today's world, I mean, you can kind of depending on where you are, there are people who can help you get to whatever level you want to. On the individual training side, the off season stuff. Now, when it boils down to like, when our seasons are starting, which we don't, we don't mess with our kids. We tell our kids and this is something we believe in and we tell everybody and we do mean it. Any, any kids that sit there and go, man, you know, I don't even really like high school ball. I'm ready for travel ball. That's not. Those aren't the kind of kids we're looking for. Because high school ball is about a community. It's more about what's on the front of the jersey. It's about playing for something. The guys that played before you at that high school who helped lay the foundation and the guys that are going to come after you, it's more about the big picture, not about just individual players. I think everything that high school baseball is meant for and is about is what baseball should be. I do travel baseball. We try our hardest to get our kids to buy into the same type of mindset where we tell them now, like, hey man, we started this thing in 03. Those guys laid the foundation for you to be able to, you know, go to Lake Point, to be able to go to Hoover, to be able to go to carry wherever we may be going like, and have a reputable name that people respect. I mean, we're not going to always just walk out there with the Best talent. We're never going to be the most talented teams, but we have. They know that we're. We're blue collar and that we're going to try and get after it and all that. And so those kids that you're just all about travel ball, it tells me a little. It kind of hurts because I'm like, man, are they more interested in their player ranking? Are they more interested in their own individual accolades? You know, we try to tell all our kids, like, when we have a weekend, if you bet a thousand, that's awesome, that means we'll probably won some games. But if you put out a tweet or you, you make a post on Instagram and all it is is your individual stats and it doesn't say anything about our team and how we did, if we went 04 or 4 and oh, it better say something about your team or else, you know, your priorities aren't right. Your mindset, your mindset's not right because it's not. This game is so much more fun when you play for your teammates in the front of the jersey. I know that's cliche, but I mean, it. It really is more fun when you play for the guy next to you. And you will be rewarded. You really will. So, I mean, that's what we're trying to, like, kind of make sure that each kid understands a little bit more. And that's a hard. It's a challenge.

[A]

Of course it is.

[B]

Obviously.

[A]

I mean, I think what you guys are doing is so nice too, though, because if all we're doing is encouraging kids who in this travel baseball world today already are going to be, like, kind of focused on themselves to no fault of their own. I mean, just like the ranking component, you know, the hype is at a level that it never was when we were growing up. And so I think naturally, without people looking at it any other way, they're going to be that way. And so that's where I think it's so important to remind players about the team side, especially for you who saw what it was like in pro ball and how that gets stripped away immediately anyways, so why not encourage guys and teach them that now? And by the way, as we're talking about these pro organizations, like, do we think a major league organization wants to draft a selfish player or a player that wants to help his team? Player that wants to help his team? Why is that? Like, that's where it's like, commonsensical a little bit, where it's just like, slow down, think about this logically, you know, it's a team sport.

[B]

It always will be. And I will say, I think it's so much harder on these kids now because the travel ball at a young age, where Travel ball, if you. Man, I truly believe this. You start taking kids out of their youth program, and all these parents say that's not good enough competition and this and that your kid. What matters early on is the fact that parents are playing and practicing with their kids, and then they're going out and competing. It doesn't matter about the level that they face when they're eight years old. It doesn't like a kid, if he loves it, loves the game and the parents are willing to work with him and, you know, people are willing to invest time in him, he's going to be as good as he possibly could be. Now, that being said, it's so hard because at a younger age when these kids start doing that, all these families have to stop everything they're doing. Number one, they got the financial side of it. Like, kids just don't understand how much money and time it costs these parents. And then, like, these families all have to stop their lives to go to these travel baseball tournaments, wherever they may be. Sanford, Florida, East Cobb, you know, Houston, Baton Rouge, like, all these places, which is awesome. The kids love them. Parents, I'm sure they're cool with them, too. The problem is, it starts showing these kids that everything revolves around them at a younger age and they truly haven't earned it. I mean, let's just be real. Then you mix in the social media side of things, which is terrifying. Like, these kids have so much that shows them, and it makes all of us as baseball players and athletes insecure. I mean, you see these guys. I think I was pretty good. Well, man, if I'm seeing some shortstop out in Colorado and I'm like, oh, my gosh, he's better than me. Look at that. He's 60 times better than me. Or this. All these things are showing me to focus on myself individually instead of work my tail off day in, day out, put the time in and then literally play for my teammates and play the game the right way. I'm going to reach whatever I'm supposed to reach. I'm going to hit the goals that I will be able to. And so that side of it, I'm grateful. I'm grateful we grew up when we did that. There was no social media, that there wasn't all the player rankings and all that stuff. The rankings are cool. The kids love them. They do. But I think some kids get discouraged, you know, if you're not, if you're not really big and fast and, you know, hit bombs and throw real hard at a younger age, you're obviously not going to be ranked real high. But you know as well as I do, we've been around the game for so long, those guys at a younger age that are like that, they're not always the ones that play in the big leagues and they're big league all Stars. Those ones that are hungry, that stay hungry. Now, if those kids stay hungry the whole time, yeah, they will be. But a lot of them don't. And those, those undersized guys or those guys who maybe haven't hit puberty until later on, those guys have that edge to them that, man, if you can get the timing right with that, those are the guys that know how to work and know how to play with a chip on their shoulder. And it is, it is special when it all comes together.

[A]

When I think about a guy like Evelyn Longoria and I oftentimes tell this story, you know, I went to Long Beach State when he was there and, you know, thinking about him who, you know, wasn't drafted out of high school, right, really didn't have much of an opportunity, goes to a junior college, then goes to Long Beach State and becomes a third overall pick. And where I get excited is I think so many kids, especially today with the rankings, you know, they're 13 and they're thinking, oh, man, I'm already behind. And it's like, whoa, slow down. And that's. I get nervous. For families who at such a young age, it's already, you know, we need to do more. At 10 years old, we have to get him with the right trainer. We got to get him with the right hitting coach. I don't want him to play multiple sports. It needs to be year round. And so for me, it's, it's. I just get nervous because as we know, if you're really good enough to get there, like, if you, if you really have the tools and you should be a college baseball player or a pro baseball player, I don't care if it's at 13, 15, 18, you could literally start playing the game at 17 years old. Funny enough, you're going to find a way to show everybody that you're tooled up and you could play at the next level. So that's where, for me, I just, you know, part of this podcast is really a matter of I want to give families information. I want to give them the ability to think about their own situation in a different way and provide them with resources. Just. And I guess if there's one message it's like, slow down. Right? Everything's going to be fine.

[B]

It's hard as a parent, we love our kids so much, you know, you want to do everything and if you see these other kids at, you know, your kids age that are going and doing this, you're worried your kid's going to get left behind and it's all out of love. There's no fault to a parent. But I'm with you. Like, make the priorities what they need to be. Like put God first, put that faith first, put family next. And then the other stuff. If your kid's passionate about baseball, push him, push him, push him. But then there's a time my dad would look at us, they put the ball on glove away.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'd be like, no, no, no. He'd be like, hey, go grab the football. And we just played two on two football in the backyard all the time. And then I'd forget about it. Next thing I know, he'd come out with a fungo bat and go, hey, it's time to get going. I'm like completely forgot about baseball.

[A]

This is awesome.

[B]

And man, I loved it. It kept it fresh for me. I do hate that. I wish the sports, I don't have the answers. I'm not that guy who, you know, is just pointing out all the things that are wrong. But I wish the sports could work together, especially at the high school level and help encourage athletes to be athletes. If you gave us two kids that were equal on ability, one of them plays football as well, the other one's just single sport baseball, we're going to choose the football player because they're going to be a more well rounded athlete. In football there's some scary parts to it, but there's some beautiful parts of football, you know, basketball, the same thing. Like so like I'm just picking the major sports. But I mean like I do want kids to still be kids and parents to be able to just don't freak out, don't get caught up in the the short term. See the big picture. If your kid is meant to play high school baseball, college baseball, professional baseball, as long as he works, he's gonna get there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he's got the ability, the God given ability. And he works at it, masters his craft. He will get there. No matter if you play on this select Travel team at 9 years old or if you don't, if you just played city ball and played with some kids that have never put on a glove. It's probably going to be good for your kid to be around those guys, to learn how to lead them and try to help them. That was some of my biggest learning moments of my life. My dad would. If he ever looked at me and said, you ride with me after a game, I could have gone four, four with a couple jacks. And I'm like, oh, yeah. I get in there and then him just go off on me. Because when the right fielder dropped the pop up, I held my hands out and tried to show him up, you know. And then other games, I go over four with three K's in little league and my dad, you ride with me, and I'm like, oh, God, I'm gonna get beaten before I get home. And legitimately tell me he's proud of me because my team was down by six in the last inning, and I'm still diving for balls and trying and running out ground balls. And, I mean, my brain was a pretzel. But those things taught me more than anything. And that. That goes back to that foundation of what I'm so grateful for, of just, you know, them teaching me right from wrong and what was important and what wasn't. And, you know, sometimes that's better for kids nowadays. I mean, it is.

[A]

Do you have. As you reflect back on your career as a player, do you have any regrets?

[B]

I don't. I mean, I don't. I mean, I. I wish. I mean, I do have some stuff. Like, I mean, I wish I would have had a little more of a. A plan on the weight room side of things. I was always a weight room guy. But then I got scared because, you know, I had a shoulder surgery, and then I was. Didn't want to get too big. I mean, I don't have long limbs. I didn't want to look like I was playing shortstop with alligator arms. You know, I didn't. But I didn't have, like, a lot of the knowledge that they had. But, I mean, that's not a regret. That just wasn't really out there at the time. I. I wish. I think the only thing going back to what I said, I wish I could have been able to if I went back and played now. And what I tell guys now is, like, I know you're out there and you're. You're told you got to perform in pro ball, but, man, if you will play the game for that scoreboard and your teammates around you, no matter how hard it is. Even if those guys are selfish, if you will play for your teammates and the people around you, you will enjoy the game more. And I guarantee you, you'll reach what you deserve to reach, whether that, be it Double A, Triple A, or the big leagues, but you'll actually be able to be proud of what. That's probably the only regret I got to where it was just after a game. I mean, I knew if we won or lost, but it didn't really matter that much. And I hate to say that it kills me.

[A]

It almost at the next level, it, like, it breeds it, in a sense, because you're surrounded by other guys who. And funny enough, like, if you're competing, let's just say, against another shortstop, right, and you're playing that day and you go four for four, you know, it's like you can sense that that guy's like, oh, no. Like, he's not rooting for you to have success. And when you start to experience that, it's like, oh, man, this is different.

[B]

It is. It is not a good feeling at all. And I. I never. I never felt like I was ever rooting against anybody. I mean, I could probably. Probably think to some times where I was like, man, it'd be kind of cool if I could, you know, get a couple hits, maybe get my average closer to this guy that I'm competing against. But that is hard and that it never works out. If you're ever rooting against somebody, man, you're not. It's.

[A]

Yeah, no, it's not good.

[B]

You'll never be rewarded for that.

[A]

Not good ever. All right, so this is what I want to leave people with. If you were talking to a parent who. Maybe they're looking for a travel baseball organization and they have a call set up with a coach, what's one question that you would encourage them to ask?

[B]

Put me on the spot on that one. I don't know that I would. As far as asking a question, I mean, I would say more, do your due diligence on your own before you get on that phone call. Ask around to people who love the organization, people that hate it and, you know, go watch the way the organization, you know, handles themselves at games, how coaches handle themselves. Are they. The coaches that want all the attention? The coaches are going to be screaming at the umpires. Are they. Are they going to demand that the kid spikes his helmet, you know, that he comes out of the game? Or they going to let guys not play the game the right way? All those things. I would say if you go and get your eyes on it yourself. But I think ultimately it's about a fit. What's important to you, like if, if you're more of a status person and it's all about just a certain organization having that just so people on the Internet will think, hey, that kid plays for so and so, they must be good. Or if you're truly doing it for the right reason of hey, this is the best situation to help our kid get better and challenge him and make him act right and make him play the game the right way, then I think, I think that's what I would say to do. I wouldn't. And it's got to work out for your family too. At different ages. Like, I mean, if you have multiple. I have four kids, we can't just stop our life for one one kid. So like, you know, if it's somebody that's going to be playing week long tournaments over and over and over again, like, make sure I wouldn't be able to do it. So I don't think there's one certain question. I would say do your due diligence beforehand. Figure out what's important to you. Talk as a family.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Talk as a family, you know, mom and dad. And then bring player in and talk as a family and talk about what do we want to get out of this ring this summer with this team. What's the most important at this point in time? And it can't be recruiting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Recruiting at 16 and 17. Mainly 17. Now that, that makes the most sense. But all the other stuff beforehand, it needs to be about development.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It needs to be about the things that are going to push your kid to focus day in and day out on how can I get better each day.

[A]

I love it, bro. This is great.

[B]

Yeah, man, enjoyed it.

[A]

Thanks for coming.

[B]

Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah, it's awesome.