← Most Valuable Agent with Matt Hannaford
Most Valuable Agent with Matt Hannaford
Travel Baseball: How Many Games Is Too Many for Your Son? | MVA Podcast
00:21:53
Loading summary
Transcript13 lines
- [00:13]
A
All right, everybody, welcome back to another solo episode of the Most Valuable Agent podcast. Happy to join you today. This is an episode where I am joined today by my producer Mike. He's going to be coming on and he's going to be reading to me specific questions that were asked to me from travel baseball, parents, specifically around travel baseball. So, Mike, what do we got today?
- [00:34]
B
Yeah, we got some good questions, Matt. So let me fire up the first one that we got. This question is from a dad in Texas with a 13 year old son and he writes, my son's travel ball team plays 70 plus games a year and he's starting to burn out. At what point is it too much? How do you know when the schedule is helping versus hurting his development?
- [00:58]
A
Yeah, I mean, obviously I'm not surprised that he's burning out at 70 games. I mean, that seems, that seems to be a bit much. I mean, keep in mind, when you get to professional baseball, the first minor league season is a little bit more than that. But I mean, I guess the first thing I would say is I'm all for playing as many games as possible, but within reason, right. We have to keep in mind what, what are the goals? Your son's 13 years old, so that is what about seventh grade? So he's not quite in high school yet. I think the first thing, let's start with this. The fact that you're asking the question and the fact that you're even acknowledging that he's starting to get burnout. He's probably been, been burnt out for a period of time now. And so, yeah, I think you need to pull back the reins a little bit. Keep in mind, there was a, there was a study that was done, I think by the Aspen Institute several years ago and it, it really talked about how many players at the age of 13, funny enough, start to experience that burnout. And when they, when they do, oftentimes what ends up happening is they choose to quit before they even get to high school. So I think we have to put all of this in perspective. If the goal that your son ultimately has, if he's a very talented kid and he would like to get a scholarship in college, the only way that's ever going to be useful is if he continues to even want to play in college. And so I think we first need to start with the enjoyment factor, right? If he's going to get the most out of this experience, he has to be able to enjoy it. And so we need to kind of pump the brakes a little bit. Keep in mind what are, what are the goals here? Right. The goals are that he enjoys himself first and foremost. And with that being said, then the next thing is, let's just say he wants to get back to a place of enjoyment. Now, the next thing would be, well, how do I continue to improve as a player? I don't want to step away from playing this often because that's really the thing that's going to help me get better. I mean, yeah, that's true, but you also need to keep in mind, like, it's, it's. It's a given a take. Right? It's a. Both. And we have to be able to enjoy the game so much to want to stay on the field and then play it so much that we can get better. And so that is this balancing act a little bit. I just think start with, he's clearly getting burnt out, so let's pull back the reins. I'm not saying that that means you need to go to zero games, but I think you need to reevaluate and, and ask him what he is most comfortable with. I don't think there's like a perfect equation for, you know, this is the number of games that you need to play. But I think, you know, again, and I, I say this oftentimes on this podcast. You're a parent. You have an intuition. Follow your gut. What does your gut tell you? If he's playing, let's just say every weekend, then maybe you start with every other weekend and then. Or maybe you go to once a month. I think that that is a completely acceptable plan. And then keep in mind, also, you don't necessarily need to go play in games every weekend either. He can go and he can train with if he's a pitcher, a pitching coach, or a hitter, a hitting coach, and still get meaningful work in. That ultimately requires less travel over the weekends and does afford him the opportunity to go hang out with some friends from Time and Again too, which is also important. So that would be my advice. Yeah, I mean, again, just to reiterate it, I'm not surprised that he's getting burnt out at 70 games. I feel like that's a little bit too much. So hopefully that that's helpful.
- [04:16]
B
It's interesting and I'm sure some of the people in our audience would want to hear more from you about this is, you know, 70 games just for me, and I don't have kids, but I could only imagine that 70 games just seems like a lot in general. Is that common to be playing that many games? Travel Baseball.
- [04:35]
A
Yeah, no, I mean, I would say that that is on the higher end of the scale. But keep in mind for, for anybody listening who isn't necessarily, you know, completely familiar with the travel baseball world and all of how it functions, you have, obviously have these various teams, right? And some of the biggest teams, they have different age groups. So you may have a team as young as, let's say, 8U, and it goes all the way to 18. You. And so each individual team, each individual age, they're going to have a series of events and tournaments that they're going to be signed up for. What it sounds like is going on is you have a player maybe who's participating for one team regionally, let's say, in his local town, and then there's also additional events that he may be attending with a different team nationally. And this is how you have a player who ends up playing the number of games that you're talking about. And so something to keep in mind, and maybe this is where the listener should start, is think about it from the standpoint of, well, what are the best of the best doing, right? The, the players who are 17, 18 years old, who are seniors in high school, who are going to college and they're playing travel baseball, what are they going to, right? And, and over the course of a summer, there's probably anywhere from five to 10 events tops, that they would be electing to go to. And again, I'm talking about the best of the best. So if the person asking the question isn't necessarily that, maybe they feel compelled to go, but again, it should all be in the context of is my son actually improving as a player? And I would argue if he's not enjoying it, he's not improving nearly as. As much as he probably otherwise could. And so look at events as one thing that you can do to improve, but also consider the training component during the week practice as another component that you can go and take advantage of. So maybe for this listener, what makes the most sense is let's peel back the number of games that we're committed to, the number of tournaments that we're committed to, and instead we are going to fill some of that downtime with things that your son enjoys, like going to hang out with buddies, but also going to train and, and practice more and maintaining the level of ability all the while you're playing less games. So I feel like that's something that they should try out. And again, the last thing I'll say about this is I think sometimes parents get stuck in this mindset of there's a perfect way of doing it and I need to know what that is. And if I apply that to my son's situation, then he's going to be this perfect player. And the truth of the matter is, is that's not just how this goes, right? You're constantly trying to figure out what makes the most sense for our particular son. So, and you know what goes into that is obviously his talent level, obviously, but his enjoyment level is another big piece in there. So I just think you have to again, and I've said this before, and I'll say it again, mom and dad, you guys have your gut feel, you have your intuition, you know your son better than anybody. If you're sensing that he is overwhelmed and burnt out, then scale it back, right? That's, that's first and foremost, that's what you should do. And then slowly but surely after the fact, once he now wants to do it more, maybe he has this, this fire that is re lit inside of him that now ultimately is going to make him better. So at 13 years old, I think you have the luxury of time there. You don't need to hurry up and figure this out. So that would be my, that would be my insight as far as as that question and then your additional question, Mike.
- [08:06]
B
All right, so second question is, is a mom from Georgia has a 14 year old son who's a pitcher? And she writes, hey Matt, there are so many travel ball organizations in our area and the cost to be a are absolutely insane. Some of these teams are even charging 5k a season. So is it the most expensive team always the best option? And if not, what should we be actually evaluating when we pick a program?
- [08:35]
A
Thank you for the question. Yeah, I mean, great question. I think the assumption obviously is, well, yeah, I mean the most expensive is the best team. Not necessarily. I think what makes more sense is why don't you evaluate the track record of the organization? Right? Start there. If an organization has had a player go through that program from the age of, let's just say 10 to 17 and they've seen the development throughout those years, then that's something that you want to hang your hat on and you want to evaluate that organization based on the success of being able to develop that player. If a player went to play with an organization one time for one tournament and that travel ball organization is claiming that that is their player, does that necessarily mean that the reason the player was drafted and the reason the player is as good as he is is because of that Travel ball program? No, obviously not. And so that's where some common sense needs to prevail there. As a parent, what I think you should do is just ask a lot of questions, right? Don't be so quick to just sign up with a team. Do your homework. There are many, many teams in that area that are good. There are many teams nationally that are good and in other various cities that are good. And so I think what makes more sense is don't get so caught up in. It has to be this local team. I think what makes more sense is if there's a region, and again, at 14 years old, maybe you're trying to stay more local, which makes sense. But I think the. The driving factor for me is really about who has this program been able to develop over a period of years, and do they have somebody to point to that is a similar skilled player to your son at the same age? And how many guys can they say they've helped develop along that same path? That's kind of what I think you should start with. And then. Yeah, and then you have to match that with. All right, well, how much is the program? If you can't afford it, then you can't afford it. That's just a reality. I don't think you need to put yourself in debt any more than maybe you already have to do this. Especially at 14 years old, there are various things that your son can continue to do outside of just playing for a travel ball team to develop. And that is, you know, maybe your money is better spent going to find a training facility where he can work with a particular hitting coach or pitching coach who can do a better job of developing him, and then very carefully and strategically choose certain events to kind of showcase that. That ability. And so I've said this as well on the podcast, where oftentimes families are maybe a little too hung up on the exposure piece as being the most important. And instead what they need to be focused on is the development piece. So start with the development, and that may lead you to finding a training center rather than a travel team, and then use the competition strategically to then get the exposure that you ultimately need. So that's what I would recommend. Feel free to DM me on the side, or you can send an email to matt themostvaluableagent.com and I'd be happy to answer any additional questions that. That you may have. But, yeah, I'm gonna bet you're gonna be able to find a good program for you there, knowing how many there are there Most likely will be one that matches your needs and costs. So.
- [12:01]
B
All right, and the final question that we have is from a dad in Florida with a 15 year old outfielder. He writes, hey, Matt, my son's travel ball coach barely plays him in the big showcase tournaments, but starts him every weekend game. The coach says it's about winning when it matters. Should we find a new team or is this just how it works at the higher levels?
- [12:23]
A
Okay, interesting. And I want to. And maybe they misspoke or maybe they're describing something different. So a showcase is when you showcase your abilities, right? You show up at an event and this particular event has you run a 60 take BP. Maybe they have some games worked in there, but the showcases aren't the travel organizations going to. So maybe what he means is in some of the bigger tournaments. And so I'm going to assume that in some of the bigger tournaments my son's not playing, but in kind of the local ones and the more everyday, more consistent ones he is. Should we be looking for a new travel organization because of that? And so let me answer that question and maybe this is an answer that you're not going to like. It depends, right? I say this all the time. What are the goals? Right. I know Your son is 15, but what are the goals? And then keep in mind those goals have to match his abilities in that moment. And so if his goal is to be the first player drafted when he's 18 and he's not playing for a particular travel organization, I would make the argument that it's not necessarily the travel organization that's the problem. It may be that the goal is not in line with reality. I would assume if the player is as good that in three years they can be the first overall pick in the draft. Any travel organization is going to make sure that that kid is playing because he's one of the best. So I think you want to be first honest with yourself about what are the goals that we have and do they align with reality. Now once we've gotten that out of the way, you know, I guess what I would tell you is I'm, I'm not a fan of ever wasting money. So do I think that you need to be with a travel organization where your son doesn't play? No, but it sounds like he's playing in some way. So I guess what I would try to get the answer to with the coach before you just jump from team to team, I think you need to have a conversation with the coach. And I would even go so far as to have Your son, who's 15, have a conversation with the coach and be very direct and specific and ask him, can you, can you share with me maybe why I'm not playing in these, in these more important events? And it sounds like maybe that question was asked on some level or some information has been given to this father because he seems to think it's because, well, winning is the most important thing and they're trying to win this event. So basically what that tells me is, all right, that coach doesn't feel like you're going to help him win the event. All right, why is that? What do you need to see from me in these other events to get the opportunity in the bigger event? And if for some reason you guys are just on different pages and this continues to happen over and over and over and you feel like maybe he's not being honest or he just doesn't like your son, then yeah, I mean, at that point, if you've exhausted all your, all your avenues with this particular coach, I'm certainly not suggesting you have to stay with them just because I think at that point, sure, go find a different program where you actually can compete at these various events that you're paying for. But, you know, I, I just, I want to make sure that it's in line with reality. And so it, it always is very important to play. But you have to kind of be honest and ask yourself, is my son not playing because he hasn't done what he's needed to do in those moments, or is he not playing because he hasn't been given an opportunity? And so start there. And then I feel like that'll, that'll lead you to the right decision.
- [15:49]
B
Yeah. And I think another thing that some of our, our listeners have, I know, have reached out to you about is the exposure piece, which you did mention in the, in the previous question, where a lot of parents are getting caught up in the exposure piece. And it sounds like to me, without not a whole lot of context, but it sounds like to me that a lot of parents are getting caught up in the fact of just trying to get their kid exposed and just trying to get their kid fast track to Major League Baseball. What do you, what advice, I guess, do you have for parents that are getting caught up in that exposure type mindset, like fast tracking their kid is to the Major League Baseball as young as 9, 10 or 11. I'm sure you've seen that a lot.
- [16:32]
A
Oh, yeah. I mean, it happens all the time, I think. You know, I don't know I don't know if it's social media that we have to blame, if it's any one of these various ranking systems. I mean, I think there's, there's certainly some good that comes from those, from those, from those publications. But, yeah, I mean, I think what, what happens is, you know, you have, you have two things. You have a kid oftentimes who is really eager to play this sport, right? He's willing to do whatever it takes to be that guy on TV that's his hero, right? And then you have a parent that is as committed as ever who wants to do whatever it takes to make sure that their son has that opportunity. And so you put these things together, and that could be very dangerous. And my advice to anybody is really, look, those two things actually are a really, really positive thing. It's when they're brought together as if these are the only two things that matter, that there is this downside. And so we have to still be parents, right? You have to still realize that your son is, if it's nine years old, only nine. And I've said this before on the podcast, like, up until this time, your son is 15 years old, you're probably not going to really get a real sense of how good he is. And I only say 15 because I've known plenty of kids who, at 13 years old, you would make the argument, like, I've never seen a kid this talented before and give it a couple years. And that kid goes undrafted, right? And it's because he was just advanced and everybody else caught up. And maybe at 13 years old, sure, he could handle the velocity at that point or he could handle the fastball, but when he got to the next level, he couldn't pick up the spin, he couldn't hit the off speed, or if he's a pitcher, maybe his arm starts barking and, you know, he can't throw. And so we have to allow our kids the freedom to, to develop as they should. And so I think when we do that as parents, what we ultimately do is we free our kids up to actually be more comfortable when they're playing. Because I think what happens is as these two things that I'm talking about that, that get balanced, the kid and the parent, as these things continue to grow and expand, at some point the parent who's now invested all of this money starts to think about that amount of money and say, well, now we've put in two, three years into this thing, right? And, and for some, and this may sound crazy, I'm talking $100,000. And after that much money, you're darn right. The parent feels like, hey, man, I shouldn't have to wake you up in the morning. I shouldn't have to remind you that you need to, like, put your bag together to go to practice. I shouldn't have to tell you to go take some extra swings in the cage. And so that's where the relationship starts to falter a little bit, I guess I would say. And so, you know, again, all of this stems from this, this obsession with what do I do to put my kid in the most optimal position to be the best they can be. And so, like, again, that in and of itself is a good thing. But if you just ignore the. The other symptoms and the other signs, rather that you're seeing, I think we can walk ourselves into some pretty hot water with, with our kids. And so that's. That's kind of the result of what we've seen over the last five, six, seven, even 10 years of this changing culture in travel baseball is now we see how the kid who, you know, I just had a conversation with a client, funny enough, who is involved with the travel ball program, and there was a mom whose son was, I want to say 10 years old or 11 years old or no, I'm sorry, he was 12 years old and he was throwing through arm pain and he kept ignoring it, and the parent kept sending him to different events and was ignoring the coach telling him otherwise continue to go to different events for different teams because this one particular coach wouldn't let him play with them. And sure enough, the kid ends up finding out that he tore his ligament at 13 years old or 12 years old, rather. And this kid is now being told, don't touch a baseball for five or six years, maybe ever. And so it's very easy to point the finger at the kid and say, like, what are you crazy? But, like, I blame the parent who ultimately should be looking out for that kid and saying, this is not right. And so those are the stories that I hear constantly throughout this industry that break my heart. We don't need more of that stuff. And so how that relates to the exposure piece, the exposure, it's not the most important thing. Exposure is a byproduct of a lot of other things. You need to let your kid be a kid, grow up, and he's going to be fine.
- [21:07]
B
All right, so that's all the questions that we have for this episode of the podcast.
- [21:12]
A
Awesome. So thank you for joining us here on this, this solo episode. Obviously, as I said before, if you guys have additional questions that you want us to cover, you can DM me on Instagram. You could send me an email at Matt, the most valuable agent dot com. And, yeah, I hope this episode ultimately made you a stronger player if you are a player or if you're a parent or a family, a stronger family. So thanks for joining us today, and we'll see you next time.