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Most Valuable Agent with Matt Hannaford
Travel Baseball Kids Need to Play, Fail, and Get Better
01:13:53
What if the real game isn’t played on the field, but at home, in the way we raise, support, and speak to our kids? In this heartfelt episode, Craig Holman, former pro player and father of two elite athletes, joins Matt Antonelli to share the untold...
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- [00:13]
Podcast Host
All right, so we are joined today by a brother.
- [00:16]
Craig Holman
Brother.
- [00:17]
Podcast Host
We're joined today by father's client or a client's father, I should say. So, Craig Holman, you are somebody who's kind of been through it all right? Not only have you sat here, not in this same seat, but in another seat doing this podcast once before. So if anybody who's watching this for the first time has not seen Craig's last podcast that we did, definitely check that out as well. But you've also sat in the seat of a player in professional baseball, and you've also sat in the seat as a father watching your son go through the journey, obviously as a child, through youth and travel baseball, up through college baseball and then now into professional baseball. So I want to level set that because I feel like you have so much guidance, so much information that you could share with our listener. And I have found the listener. You know, think about it from the standpoint of almost like you, if you're watching this, not really having any sort of access or guidance to all the things and all the information that these parents ultimately need in youth and travel baseball, share with them some things that they ultimately would find value in. So I, I feel like the best way that we could start this out is really to talk about from the standpoint of just travel baseball, just generally speaking. Share with us what are some of the biggest misconceptions that you've seen in your experience with youth and travel baseball.
- [01:35]
Craig Holman
And I did travel baseball. I was, I was hated in my area because I kind of started, I grew up in Alabama. You know, I don't even know if people need to know that, but got an affiliates organization, met my wife when I was in AA up in Pennsylvania and Reading. Eventually retired, lived there, had two kids, which I would like to talk a little bit today about girls softball. I had a daughter that went through softball travel, went to college, just left, is coaching now at Belhaven University down in Jackson, Mississippi. But she was the first team all American shortstop in college. So you know the girls too. I've a couple calls this week with Matt Lytle and his daughter speaking quarterback with the Panthers. His daughter's trying to figure out where she wants to play softball. So I do speak to them as well. So we'll touch on the girls also. But travel baseball with the BO is, you know, I just went and hung out with Rich Delucia, 10 year Big Leaguer. He's running a location in town. Three up, three down, went out, watched a few of their teams. We Discussed things and what problems I dealt with 10 years ago. They're still dealing with them. They don't go away, they don't change. It's like the game of baseball. It's going to be the same 50 years it is now. Make good pitches, you get good guys out and. But it's the parent that doesn't identify. Hey, this is better for my child, this travel organization than this travel organization. There are low range, low range, mid and high level travel baseball. There's the Canes, who people know mostly pay for everything and they have the guys a lot of high round draft picks. There's the Keystone Bombers are in town. They got a great organization and I don't want to mess up Joe's name, honestly wrote a few names down because I don't want to misquote people. Who runs it, Joe Hirschka runs it and they do a great job. You got Mike Spadali in the area that runs a travel organization. I tell every parent, I don't care where you play baseball with travel, play games, but make sure he's playing. If you're paying for a uniform and your kid gets into a three innings and they're sitting the bench, but they get to practice with these good players. I hear that a lot from parents, but he gets to practice some really good players. So what is he playing? Well, he gets in late in the game and he doesn't get to pitch as a lot as you'd like to. Well, why don't you try a travel organization that he would play? I don't care what any kid does. And I've said this as a parent raising two kids, if they're not playing, they're not getting better. They can hang out with superstars all they want to. If they're not in the games and they're not playing and failing and as well as succeeding, they're not getting better. So I have parents say, find the travel and say, is he going to play? You've looked at him. I had people come into my place and try out for my elite team and I'd go, he's not going to play for me. Oh, but I want him on the team. Why he's not going to play. I'm telling you right now, I got 15 guys. He's the 16th guy. He's not going to play for me, but I will send you somewhere else. But he wanted to hang out and hang out with the good players. That does no one any good.
- [04:45]
Podcast Host
What I think is interesting is there's a time and a place for that level of thinking where it's like, okay, association matters. But I will say, like, when you're. If you're thinking about it from the standpoint of, okay, my son is 20 and he's now had the experience and he's had the development, and now he's in a place where I want to get him around the best players. I can understand the thought a little bit more. Even though you could make the argument it still doesn't even matter then, but definitely for someone who's, you know, and I'll just, I'll couch it by saying 10 to 13, I. I couldn't agree with you more. These players, they need to be getting the reps because ultimately we talked about it on the last podcast. You know, everyone is so absorbed with this concept of exposure. Exposure is everything. We have to be around the scouts and. Well, wait a second. We need to make sure that these players, they're developing at the basic level and giving them the tools so that when they have the opportunity to showcase those tools, it's something that these people ultimately want to see and that they'll be impressed by. So I think you're. You're absolutely spot on with that.
- [05:48]
Craig Holman
Yeah. And. And kids just need to play. And that's. I've talked that since I had. Luke was six, seven years old. I've said this before. Luke, second round draft pick last year, a million dollars from Cincinnati red pitches Alabama, LSU. He was not the best player at 8, 9, 10 years old. Not even close. I had kids were bigger, stronger, faster. He fought hard to get on the field. And if he had not been good enough to play on a good team, I'd say, hey, man, let me put you on a team that you can play. It's no different than any other child. My daughter was really good at a young age. She could have played anywhere. But I have parents that insist on, if he hangs out with these good players, he will get better. Sometimes they withdraw when they're around better players. They feel insecure. I have a kid that comes to the house every once in a while and I'll hit with him and pitch with him. Good little kid works hard and he gets around better players. And his mother, you know, he kind of withdraws a little bit. Yeah, he doesn't feel worthy. When a kid feels worthy, they perform better when they feel important. I mean, we can associate sports with life. When we feel worthy of things, we do better. When we feel pride, we do better at work. If you tell a guy, I don't know What I do with it without you. I've owned businesses, sports complex, baseball. I've owned an orthopedic business, someone that delivers for me. I tell them, I don't know what I do without you. And then I tell my most important employee that's going into surgery and all that, I don't know what I would do without you. That's worthiness. I feel good. I'm important and it matters. So you need to put your child in a situation that they feel important, whether it's hitting eighth or ninth, they still feel important. They don't feel important at any level, sitting on the bench, high fiving their buddies when they come in.
- [07:42]
Podcast Host
So getting into that mindset a little bit from the parents perspective, I think sometimes, and we've talked about this a lot on this podcast, there is this belief in travel baseball, almost like social media, in a sense. Follow my thinking here. Everything that we put forward is this perfectly designed thing that we're going to showcase. So look, my son, you know, in this video, he's never failed. He's perfect, right? And we need to put forward perfection. That's where it ties into the social media component. And if you think from that place, what they're missing is that's not the game of baseball, right? The game of baseball is all about failing and then figuring out how through that failure, you're ultimately going to get better, which you will, and then becoming a better baseball player because of it. And so I want everybody to hear what you said because it is so. It's perfectly articulated when we're talking about young kids. You have to go through the experience knowing there is going to be failure and don't run from it. It's not a bad thing. Your example of even your son at 8, 9 and 10 years old, I think a lot of parents get frustrated, maybe even a little discouraged because their son feels like, well, I'm not as good as this player over here, so I'm, I should be doing something differently. I should be playing for a different team. There are these drills I should be doing that maybe I'm not doing well. On some level, you need to let him just grow up, right? You need to let him let his body catch up a little bit, let him, let him, you know, hit puberty and see what happens. Is he going to grow? Is he not going to grow? I think on some level, one of the biggest things that we're hurting our kids, young players with is they don't ever learn the type of player that they are until much later, as an example, and I'll speak like, Jimmy Rollins. A lot of people know who Jimmy Rollins is. Jimmy Rollins, major league shortstop. I mean, this guy arguably could be a Hall of Famer one day, won the MVP award with the Philadelphia Phillies. And there was a story that was told to me when he got to the big leagues and he didn't even really know the type of player that he was. He was still trying to hit a lot of homers and somebody pulled him aside. And this is again the story that I was told, so I'm paraphrasing a lot of this, but he was, he was told and more instilled this belief of like, look, the best thing that you can do as a player is to truly understand the type of player that you are. Jimmy, you're a guy that's going to get on base, you're going to steal bags, you're going to score runs. That's your game. Your game is not to hit 3,540 homers a year. And so for an 8, 9, 10 year old kid, if they're trying to emulate the big guys in the big leagues who are hitting all these home runs and they can't do it at 8, 9, 10 years old, if they're feeling like, oh, well, I'm not doing enough, I think part of that comes from this belief that, oh no, we have to again, showcase this perfection. And if I'm not doing that, then I'm somehow behind.
- [10:33]
Craig Holman
Correct. It's finding your identity. And by the way, I spent a summer in the locker room with Jimmy in 1999 in. In Reading, while I was rehabbing Tommy John surgery, he was in Double A. I was in AAA for three years at Tommy John 98, and then missed the whole year in 99. And because I lived in Reading, they didn't send me to Florida and they didn't send me to Scranton. They said, just go out to the park. Gary Varsho was the manager there in Double A, but Jimmy and Pat Burl, Pat's back there. And two of the guys I hung out with a lot. Yeah, and I hung out with them a lot. And I did my work, did my long toss and I left. But during that summer, I saw Jimmy find his identity and he was doing, by the way, he's an incredible guy and just does all the right things and. But it was finding that identity. And kids don't know who they are and puberty is a big deal. I told this before the last podcast. I had kids at 12 and 13 years old. That threw 78, 80 miles an hour, unhittable. And five years later, at 17, they were throwing 80 miles an hour. And they're like, what happened? And they were like, you didn't grow. You didn't go through that. Vice versa. My son, who didn't throw hard at all at 11 and 12, but boy, could he pitch. It was pretty to watch. Change up, little flip curveball, put his fastball anywhere, and he kept saying, when am I going to throw harder? When am I going to throw harder? He grew 6 inches from 13 to 14, and he grew another 5, and he's throwing 90 in the 10th grade, anywhere he wanted it. So you don't really know. And I keep telling parents that, you have no idea. Come talk to me when he's 16, right? Not 12. So just have fun, work hard. And I. And I know I don't want to repeat things, but sometimes parents may see this podcast that maybe I said in the other one is my question to every kid is, I asked them, are you working hard? And I always look at them and they go, Absolutely, Mr. Holman, I work very hard. Well, let me ask you this. Could you do more? The answer has never been, no, I can't do anymore. It's always, of course I can. We all can. Okay? And that's what to me. And once again, I'm 56 years old now, and I've been through everything. I don't think there's anything I haven't experienced. Through life, through sports, through everything. If you truly desire to do something, it comes down to how many hours of work you put in. That's a fact. If I wanted to start today and said, by the time I'm 66 years old, I want to be a scratch golfer and play on a senior tour, I could do it. I'm very athletic. I play golf. Shot 75, 76. On good courses, I'll put in the work. I play a scramble. I play three months later, I go play around. But if I said, you know what? Tomorrow I'm spending three hours every day. When I get off of work and I get done leaving, I leave the office, I'm going to the course and I'm going to put in work. So no matter what the parent says to me, they can talk to me all they want to. I'm like, how bad does he want it?
- [13:39]
Podcast Host
Right? Not you, not not you.
- [13:41]
Craig Holman
How bad does your daughter want it? I'm telling you, I hope Matt Lytle. Here's this podcast. He's got a daughter that's Six, one that runs like a deer. One of the best athletes I've ever seen. She picked up softball late, big soccer player, but she went to college, and now she's wondering if she's even going to play. Walked on down into a school in Pennsylvania. I won't mention the school. They told me, you're not good enough. I'm trying to get her to go south to Belhaven, play for my daughter. And I know talent when I see it. If this girl spent 12 months working just on softball, she would be an all American player.
- [14:13]
Podcast Host
Wow.
- [14:14]
Craig Holman
And I used to tell people in Reading, Pennsylvania, where I was at, I said, there's a kid walking the streets right now that's 21, maybe working at the bodega or down at, you know, the grocery store that could have thrown 98 miles an hour. He just never played baseball. Sure has. No idea. Twitchy, six, three, long arms. He went this. Maybe he ran track, but he never picked up a baseball. So I tell parents, is that fair that there's a kid out there right now that could throw a hundred that never, ever picked up a baseball? I don't know if it's fair or it's horrible or what, but it happens. What parents need to do is expose their kids to about 10 different things. If. And I was. If you talk to any parent that came to my place, they'd say, man, Craig, we love him, but God, he's so forward and sometimes rude. I had little Jimmy come in at 14 and go through a camp, and it'd say, hey, he's wanting to get into baseball and blah, blah. I'm like, it's too late. I would say that he's too late. He's 14, he can't catch, he can barely throw. And you want to put him into a travel organization. And I would go to Jimmy and I'd say, what do you like to do? Love computers. And I like to sing. Can you sing? Yes. You know what he does? He sings at church. He sounds good. Be a professional singer. Put in hours of work and be a singer. So we're going to chase the baseball dream for six years. You're not going anywhere. And you could have spent that time playing a piano, a guitar, and maybe made millions as a singer. God did not make all of us the same, and we need to focus. So I tell parents, throw it against the wall. Throw it against the wall and see if it sticks. You may have a Justin Bieber on your hands right here at 12. And you're in here yelling at him because he can't catch, he can't throw, and he can't hit. And I would say I can throw him 100 balls. He can't hit his hand. Eye coordination is not good enough. Well, that's rude. Do you want me to lie to you and take your money week after week after week, or are you wanting me to be a good man? And that's what I really pride myself on is being a good man and being honest with parents.
- [16:23]
Podcast Host
I think one of the. One of the missing skill sets or one of the things that families don't maybe pay enough attention to is the skill of listening to their son. Right. And it's. It's a little bit of what you just said where if. If parents can be more hypersensitive to, okay, I know what I want for him. And by the way, I say this fully acknowledging every parent that I've ever come across in travel baseball. Everybody wants what's best for their son.
- [16:52]
Craig Holman
Yeah.
- [16:52]
Podcast Host
They're not doing it because, no, they know they don't want it. My point in saying listen is you'll hear from them whether they have what you're describing, which is, are they going to be willing when everyone else is playing video games, when all of his other buddies are going to go out and do other things, are they going to be willing to say no to that stuff and instead do the little things that is going to be required to make this a career? And that's crazy to say, because if we're talking about a kid who's 10 years old, how do they even know they don't. And so recognize this isn't something that you're going to figure out at 8, 9, 10. It's going to be something that is going to develop over time. And I think a lot of these families can just take a step back, let it develop and use the resources and use the desire that you have to make sure that he has all the opportunities. But first, just sit back and test it a little bit. Does he want this? Ask him the questions. Put them out there. Right.
- [17:53]
Craig Holman
What do you love? What do you like to do? And I'll be honest with you, A kid at 10 made love to do one thing, and at 14, he hates that now and loves to do another. I hated tomatoes at 8 years old. My dad tried to give them to me on a sandwich. And at 16, I was eating tomato sandwiches with my father, and I was like, I can't believe I didn't like this at 8, 10 years old. So I really tell parents, he doesn't know what he wants. He doesn't know what he likes. She has no idea what she wants to do. They need guidance and they need guidance up to about 15 or 16 years old. And then they need to sit down and say, what do you want to do? You're very athletic. You can play three sports. That's what I had to do with my daughter is she could really do anything and ended up. She loved basketball and softball. And I said, where do you want to go? And she said, I think I want to play softball in college. So then that was her junior year and we started focusing on calling around and she went on to. I used to tell I don't think I said this the last time because my wife always said ex wife now, but we've been divorced seven years. Best friend, by the way. I don't want anybody to think, oh, terrible, but she's one of my best friends now. I used to walk around to the kids when they were like seven and Luke was seven and Jordan was nine and I would say, you're going to be an All American one day. You're going to be an All American. I tell Luke, he'd say, really? I was an All American in Jacksonville. State had this big thing on the wall and I went into the hall of Fame and it was on a night in a nice room and they would stand there and look at the photo of me and it said, converse All American, Craig Holman, first team picture. And they thought that was great. And I said, you're going to be an All American one day. And Luke would say, yeah, really? I'm like, absolutely. And Jordan would say, am I going to be an All American? Absolutely. Both of you guys are going to be all Americans at 7 and 9. I said it not making this up because you can call my ex wife. She'd say, yeah, I called him an idiot. I did. Every week I'd say, come here, All American. You're going to be all American one day. And I continue to speak it. Now. This is where my Christianity comes in. Life and death is in the tongue. And I tell people that all the time, don't speak ill will on yourself. So if you're a parent out there and if I can look in the camera and I can see if you're a parent, speak goodness over your children. Don't say, he's terrible, Craig. He can't catch, he can't field, he can't throw. Say he's working on things. If it's a girl, say and oh, Craig, she can't catch Mrs. Every gramble. She's working on things. She's going to be good. But I told my both of my kids that they were going to be all Americans. Well, guess what? I just hung on the wall at my house because I did a real. I did lsu, Alabama jerseys at my daughter's jersey. Three all Americans lined up. Luke Holman, All American, lsu, Jordan Holman, All American, Huntington University, and Craig Holman, All American in Jacksonville. All three of us are there. Who's.
- [20:40]
Podcast Host
Who's at the top?
- [20:43]
Craig Holman
I said, when I die, you can move my to the bottom. But I spoke that over them and, and I believe it. I'm. I will go to my grave preaching that. What you speak over yourself in order to think you're a businessman, you have to dress nice and feel like you're a businessman. You know, I've made a lot of money after baseball. When I got out of baseball, I went, man, I'm 31 and I've been doing this. And I was heartbroken.
- [21:10]
Podcast Host
Sure.
- [21:10]
Craig Holman
And Tommy John's horrible comeback. I knew when I walked off the field that they was going to get released the next day of the Phillies. It was terrible. But when I got out, I dove into businesses and I walked around like a businessman. I bought about five suits and got into medical sales and opened a sports complex. You have to believe you're this before you become that. And I just tell every parent, if he wants it bad enough, he'll be just fine with or without you. That was the thing. And I don't think I said this, it's worth saying. When I went home to Jacksonville State, going the hall of Fame, I took Luke there. Jordan went to thing. My next door neighbor was a lady, Mrs. Yocum. She walked out. She. God, she must have been 80 years old. I walked out and met her and gave her a hug. I mean, she was there as long as I was tiny. And she said, congratulations. I read in the paper you're going into the hall of Fame at Jacksonville State. I said, thank you so much. And she said, can I tell you something? And I said, sure. And she said, I don't mean for this to sound rude, but. And this is a bad term to use these days, but she, it was fine. She said, I thought you were retarded as a child. And I looked at her Now I'm like 35, 36. And I said, excuse me. She goes, you stood out there in that hot sun all day and threw that tennis ball against that wall. You did it for hours. And I would Tell my sister, this kid's been out there for three hours throwing a ball against the wall. There's something wrong with him. But you did it every other day and you did it for years. And I'm not embarrassed to say it. I was 16 years old, still throwing a tennis ball against wall and fielding and throwing it. But she, I laughed with her and I said, no, I'm doing just fine and running an orthopedic business. Everything's good and I'm not slow. That's what I said to her. But she, she thought I was a sl because of what I did as a kid. I didn't have a dad out there. I didn't have anybody. I was out there throwing and I played games. I spray painted a square and I threw to it to hours. I'd pitch nine innings. I would write a roster. Bob Horner, Bruce Benedict, Dale Murphy. I had all those Jerry Royster. I'd write them up and I'd write them up and I would pitch a nine inning game.
- [23:32]
Podcast Host
Wow.
- [23:33]
Craig Holman
The whole game I must have threw 150 pitches against that wall. And I did it every two or three days. And then I' do it and go pitch a little league game. Now that's insane. But that's what I did. And I told people that it was all I had. It was all I had. I hit rocks for hours. I threw against the wall. So I talked to Luke and Jordan about these stories and they heard him. Your dad stood out there for hours and threw this ball against wall. I'm not saying you have to do that now. You can do it nicer places. What I'm saying is, is I had a pretty good college career. I deserved it. Yeah. I tell people that I didn't get anything that I didn't deserve. That's a fact. No one worked harder than me. I worked when no one was watching. I worked when they were watching. So I tell all the families, if you're not willing. My agent used to say back in the day, if you're not willing to sprint when the distance is unknown. Have you ever heard of that? So there's a statement that says when you're willing to sprint when the distance is unknown. And it always rang with me is who's willing to just take off sprinting and you can't see the finish line. And he said that you got to be willing to sprint when the distance is unknown. And it hit me because I was willing to do that. I was willing to do it. I was that kid. Now I didn't have the little proper. My mom left and dad divorced when I was 7. My dad raised me alone. I didn't have, you know, all the things that kids have. I didn't have a nice glove, didn't have shoes, but I had talent. And that was all. And I lived in it. Now I teach kids that I think are tough. I teach kids that I think are in the middle and I teach softies. And I used to tell my son, I got to get you tougher. I used to tell him that all the time. And so there's things that kids need other than baseball lessons, and that's what I'm, I, I want to touch a little bit today on finding someone to work with your child. I have parents that all the time, say, my uncle Billy, who played a little college baseball, works with my son. My son's 13, but there's two pros down the street that everybody else goes to. But my son loves his uncle. Stay with the uncle. And they look at me and they go, yeah, but can he. I said, does your son enjoy working with your uncle? With his uncle, your brother? Yes. Stay with the uncle. Your resume of your instructor means nothing. And I'm. And once again, you're sitting here talking to a guy that's got a good resume. Two time All American hall of Fame, 10 years in the Phillies organization. I got a great resume. Doesn't matter. A guy across town that's really good with a kid that can teach will do him just as good as, as a pro. I had instructors at my place that would walk around on their cell phone during a lesson that really lit me up. And I would have a talk to him and I'd say, this kid and his mom paid and you're over there 10 minutes into a lesson taking a phone call. I don't want that. And if you're going to do it, I don't want you to do it here. Because I could call those shots because I own the place. I had people come in that never played college baseball, finished high school, really loved the sport, studied it, read, man, it was, it was like they were teaching their last lesson before they were going to their grave.
- [26:49]
Podcast Host
Oh, wow.
- [26:50]
Craig Holman
That's how devoted they were. So I would say, find an instructor like that that your son or daughter enjoys. And that's your, that's your instructor. And that's the key.
- [27:01]
Podcast Host
Well, there's, yeah, there's a care factor, right. That you can't measure that based on their resume. It doesn't. Like, does the person who is the ex big Leaguer. Does he have knowledge? Well, of course he has knowledge. But why do some of the worst, or I should say it this way, why? Sometimes the best players don't make good managers.
- [27:20]
Craig Holman
You're gonna say that I say it.
- [27:22]
Podcast Host
All the time is because, well, to them, maybe it came easy, right? So their instruction for the player who, let's just say he's giving a hitting lesson and this guy was a Hall of Fame hitter, he's looking at the, the young kid saying, well, just do this well to that kid. His body moves different. It doesn't come as easy. Maybe he's not capable of actually sharing the information in a way that's going to resonate with the kid. But if it's somebody who actually had a similar career path, we'll say, or similar skill sets, maybe he has the capability of breaking the swing down in a way and saying something in a way that is just different and unique. And maybe it does resonate with that kid. So I like, that's great advice.
- [27:55]
Craig Holman
It's incredible advice. And what I like to say is the hitting instruction that I used to do, I was a great hitter, great hitter in high school, thought I was going to hit in college, end up pitching. I teach hitting really well. I love hitting, I study it, I love doing it. I was a good hitter when it comes to pitching, it came natural for me. It was a great pitcher, had really four good pitches. But I tell people, because there's people in town that taught while I was teaching and the parents would come in and it's a, well, you played pro, you should, you should do this. And I would say the only being humble is key and having a good heart to me is the best instruction. And I wrote it, I wrote a note. And the first thing I wrote to be sure that I mentioned this. It's funny, we got on the topic and we haven't even looked at this. Pick a great person to teach your child over someone with accomplishments. Your child gets more out of the lesson than just baseball. Wrote that at the top of this because I had two calls two or three weeks ago, you know, about, hey, we got a chance to work with this guy. He was a three time, you know, all star. He's down here. And then this guy never played college baseball. Like, take your son in, see who he connects with. Don't tell your son, this guy played in the big leagues, this guy didn't. This guy played a little college, this guy didn't. Find out who your son enjoys and tell me which one you think cares the most about your son's success. They called me back and like the guy that cared the most never played college or pro. Yeah, I'd go with that guy. Now here's the only thing I offered and I would say this. You're going to a guy that did not play above high school, you're going to this guy that played a little bit of college. You're going to this guy that played a long time in Pro Bowl. What I could do for a kid because I did play at a high level was, hey, you're going to warm up in the bullpen this year. In high school, you got great stuff. You're 17 years old and you're going to have a really good bullpen and your stuff's going to be really good. And you're going to go to the mound and it's not going to be there. And you're going to warm up in the bullpen one time and it's going to be terrible. You're going to bounce your curveballs, change ups, terrible fastballs all over the place and you're going to go to the mound and you're going to look up at the sixth inning and you got a one hit shutout. You know why that's going to happen? Happened to me a lot. Okay? Those are things that someone who didn't play can't tell that kid. They can't give those life experiences of, hey, I lost a million dollars in my first business, I was just devastated. And then built my second business and made $10 million. Someone that's never done that, they can't tell you how it happened. Somebody can say, well, I think people that start businesses sometimes struggle and then it may fail and then they do. Well, same thing in sports. I can tell you when I was struggling hitting what I actually was thinking in the box and what I did to get out of a slump. Someone that didn't play may say, well, I don't know what it's like to be in a slump because I didn't really hit, but man, I can teach you the mechanics and the motivation. Maybe they're Tony Robbins, motivational speaker, teaching baseball. I want that guy working with my kids. And so the parents get off the resume. I will use that as a get off the resume of the instructor. Instructor. There's some really good people out there that played a year to a college, struggled, like you said, love the game, but boy, did they struggle. When you struggle, you try to figure stuff out. And Scott Roland, if you, if you hear this, don't Be mad at me. But I play with Scott, one of the best athletes probably I've ever seen. Could just do everything, Everything crazy to him. He didn't struggle. He could jump out of a gym. He could dunk from the free throw line. The guy, the best third base I've ever seen. And he could hit. He's not going to teach stuff going well. It was hard for me, and I struggled. Now. Now, he had some bad years that he could say, boy, at a bump. But guys like that, it just came natural, right? And so those guys, you said the guys that struggle become the managers, the guys that really fought hard, try to figure the game out. They're the best leaders because they were in the trenches every night. Oh, yeah. Battling. So.
- [32:20]
Podcast Host
So I want to go back to what you were talking about with throwing the tennis ball against the wall. Okay. Because the majority of our listeners, let's assume. Well, I know they're, you know, parents, but assuming that you're talking to a parent, what's interesting about what you said is if you had a dad that told you every day, son, I want you to go outside, and you're not allowed to come in until you throw 300 times against the wall, that would have been totally different than you deciding yourself, I'm gonna go out and I'm gonna choose to throw for three hours against the wall. I think sometimes parents, because they may want it so bad for their son, they realize, you know what? Before he even has the opportunity to say, I'm going to do this, I'm going to tell him he has to do it, and you're losing an opportunity there. Every single player, if that's a lesson they need to learn, will find that passion and desire inside. And they're going to come a point in their career because of the failure where they're going to ask themselves, how bad do I want this? If this. If. If my way of getting better and improving as a baseball player means that I have to do this, I'm going to do it.
- [33:30]
Craig Holman
Yes, I'm gonna. I'm gonna.
- [33:31]
Podcast Host
I know what I'm willing to do. And so how disappointing would it have been if somebody took that opportunity away from you and merely told you you had to do it rather than let. Let's see if he does it. And I know that it didn't happen quite like that, but you went through this experience where you realized, do I want this? Like, do I really? And maybe for you, it wasn't a decision where you said, I definitely want this. Maybe it was like, I just love throwing the baseball. So I'm gonna go. Or the tennis ball at that point. So I'm just gonna go outside and I'm gonna do. Why would I want to do anything else?
- [34:02]
Craig Holman
That was how I thought there was nothing else. I mean, it was. And I'll tell you what sparked me. I think I was like 7 or 8 years old, and there was an autograph session in our town. I came from a smaller town, but the Atlanta Braves signed autographs at the mall. And my dad took my brother and I. We'd never, you know, we. We weren't loaded with money, I'll put it that way. He took us over there, and I got to meet Bob Horn, Bob Horner, it was Del Murphy, it was Gary.
- [34:31]
Podcast Host
Matthews, all the guys. You struck out.
- [34:32]
Craig Holman
Yeah. And they were sitting there. By the way, if Gene Garber somehow hears this, he was the biggest ass on the planet. He was so rude and yelled at me and my brother. He thought we cut line. So I hated Gene Garber. Out, sidewinder. So he may be. I don't know if he's still alive, but it was so funny. He yelled at my brother, and I thought we cut line and we said we didn't cut line, but I was in awe. And when we got back home, I think I threw for two hours against the wall. And I went out back and we had a pile of rocks, and I would get the yellow wiffle ball bat and I'd pitch up and I would hit rocks for hours. And then it was locked in. Then, whatever it takes, this is what I'm going to do. This is my love. And I was good basketball. I was a good football player. I played football. My seniors, all state football player and MVP of the team my senior year. But baseball was just something I loved. And I was going to do everything that I could. And the failures. I. I got to tell you this. I told probably no one this, but I talked to Coach Abbott's wife occasionally. He's passed my college coach. I went to Jacksonville State University. I won two high school state titles, and I went to Jacksonville State and I said, I'm going to win two national championships here with you. And he laughed. As a freshman, he said, that would be nice. I'll take one. And I remember him saying that. So my sophomore year went really, really well. I'm 12 and oh, the year first team all American. And we're playing New Haven, Connecticut. Semifinals, Division 2 World Series. If we win that game, we probably win the championship game. Todd Jones was a first Rounder closer with Detroit for years. He was set up to pitch the national championship game, and I got destroyed. I faced him the opening round and I think I threw nine incomplete game. Three hits, one run. And in the semifinals, only game I lost all year. And everything I threw in there, they hit. And I don't know what's tipping pitches. I was going to say, you know, second time around, same tournament too. It was a lot of bad stuff. But he walked out to the mound of the seventh inning. And I still feel brokenhearted when I tell the story. He walked out and he'd never won an extra title. He'd been in the World Series one year, I think, in 83 or something. This was 89. He looked at me and he looked like death. And he walked out and I think it was 8 to 2, scored that many rods. And I handed the ball and I said, I'm sorry. And he looked at me and he said, it's okay. Boom. And I walked off. And that was our last game. And it was my sophomore year, going to my junior year. I literally tried to kill myself for the next three. So I'm not physically working out. I worked so hard, I put the.
- [37:25]
Podcast Host
Paper on the wall to never feel that way again.
- [37:28]
Craig Holman
Oh, I was heartbroken. And I apologized to him. He's like, craig, it's enough. And I went, that was the chance to win that national title, okay. But I worked. I worked to the point that my father would say, I think, I think he worked too hard. And my dad did not play sports. He never gave me any advice at all. Great guy. Gave me motivational stuff and you're as good as anybody. But he never played. He never gave me one advice. One time, he wanted me to hit cross handed when I was like 15 because he said he heard Hank Aaron did. I said, I'm good. I swear to God, I tell her about that story. Anyway, long story short, I go back my junior year and guess who wins a national title. And I'm on the mound. Me. Toronto takes me to 12th round. I don't sign. I come back my senior year, guess who gets the final out. National championship game. Not just in the world. I pitched national championship game my junior, national championship game my senior, back to back national titles. And I brought one of the rings here.
- [38:23]
Podcast Host
Oh, nice.
- [38:24]
Craig Holman
So back to back two and two times in a row. And I remember after my senior year, he looked at me and he said, that was the craziest thing because I sat before you got the final out. Cal State north was rebate and in Central Missouri State. But he's. I remember you as a freshman. You. You looked me in the eye and you told me you were going to win two national titles. And I believed it because the way you said it to me, but that was how I did things. So. And I raised both of my kids that way. If you don't believe it wholeheartedly. And I told Luke this, you're getting closer. And he says, I'm going to pitch in the big leagues. You say that I'm going to be an all star in the big leagues. And I truly think you will. With just what he can do. It'll never happen. Yeah, because. And it doesn't matter what dad thinks. It doesn't matter what mom thinks. You have to want that more than your mom and your dad combined, which is saying a lot, because, man, these parents, they love their kids as much as I loved mine. And I told them, I would look at the crowd every Sunday, my big camp, and I would say, I know how much you love them. I do. I know it. They're going to need to struggle and it's going to hurt your stomach, but they have to struggle and fail in order to work harder. They must. And all the parents, they all came back years later and go, God, that struggle. I saw him grow. I saw him grow from it. So, you know, I always say, embrace the struggle. Embrace it. On the last podcast we did, I said, if you. And I'll say it again, I say it to every parent. If you're hoping and praying that they never struggle, they're never going to be good, they're never going to make it. That's where the, the anger and the work, it festers during struggle. You go there, you sit on that bench and you just. My daughter, I got to say this because we've talked for the last month. So this was her past. The spring was her last year. They get to a regional and they play Emory. They win and go through the winners bracket. They play Emory and Emory's got to beat them twice. So they're already celebrating, going, we're going to super regional. We're going to a super regional. So Emory takes the lead. She comes up in the bottom of the seventh, bases are loaded, they're down one run, and she's at the plate. And I went, oh, my gosh, she's going to walk this off and go to a super regional. And she's always been taught by me, jump on the first pitch. They coming in, they're going to try to get ahead, get Us get a strike jump on. She hit the first pitch about 199ft on the 200 foot fence. Center fielder runs all the way back, catches it, bangs up against for the third out. And they were just frozen. Well, they got to turn around, play another one. Emory takes the lead on him again in game two. She comes up with two outs in the bottom of the seventh. Again, I went, there's no way a kid should be put in this situation twice. And they were down by two run her own first and she had a ball to right field that I thought was gone. And he hit the top of the fence, bounced back in, she goes to third, the girl on first scores. Now they're down by a run, catcher came up, ground out to short, and they get beat by Emory. Back to back game. So the reason I just told that story, we've had therapy over those two at bats for months. That's all we've talked about is, you know, God, if I got a little bit more and all that. But she's going to take that into coaching. There's going to be a phenomenal college softball coach. She's going to be so good. She's down with Coach Griffin at Belhaven, who's Connor Griffin's dad. What a guy to be coaching under. Kevin Griffin is an incredible dude, but Jordan's down coach with him at Bellhaven and those struggles and that final out she made, she's going to be able to pull a girl to the side and say, it's okay, you're going to have another chance, you'll be good, you're going to learn from this.
- [42:26]
Podcast Host
Well, it's the old adage, you know, life happens for us, not to us.
- [42:30]
Craig Holman
Oh my God, it's incredible. Yes.
- [42:32]
Podcast Host
But it's, it, if you, if you think about that, if you, if you look at life, you know, you brought this up at the onset. You know, whether it's baseball or any other sport, softball, basketball, football, these, these sports teach us more than just what's important in the game. Yes, right. It really does. And it teaches what's. This is why I love sports.
- [42:54]
Craig Holman
I, I love it. I've told every kid that. I mean, I, I wanted to pull the numbers before I came into here with the drive out, but it's like 1 2% of high school kids even play college baseball. I mean, the number is so small that I tell the parents, you know, they all say, what if we put in all these years of money and travel? And I'm like, it's the best years of My life I just told to. Kobe Gromlich is a player. Played me kind of like a son. Just spoke to him on a ride out and he's down the Campbell University at Tommy John transferred, but he said, man, what I would give Coach Holman to ride to a tournament with you again. When I was 14, 15 years old, tears my eyes did. I mean, him and my son are very close and you know, there were about five kids that hung out at my house all weekend and. And I get choked up because they call me a lot and they go, man, I would love to go back and take a ride with your two hours over to Jersey and do a tournament. And these guys are in college baseball, a lot of pro guys, you know, but it's, it's. Those are the best years of my life.
- [43:58]
Podcast Host
Absolutely.
- [43:59]
Craig Holman
And so I tell parents this, say you go seven years, you know, you start at 10 or 11 to 18 and he doesn't get the scholarship. So what? He's going to be a great employee. He's going to work, he may start his own business and do amazing stuff. All these kids that played for me, they're tenacious, man. They're, you know, Luke's right now the only one that's been drafted and got out there. What, Renner was drafted, Luke was drafters two or three, but a lot of D1 players. But I go, so what? And I wanted to bring that up. I wrote this down for parents and I wrote a cute few things down because it irritated me. Two weeks ago, I sat with a guy, play old man baseball, over 50 and I'll go play, just stay in shape. And we were playing. Mike Johnson was a guy, played on the other team. And one of the guys said, I heard he played pro ball, big guy pitcher with the Pirates, a little bit left hander. And they said, because I'm a guy, spent three and a half years in AAA, 10 years in minor leagues and went to big league camp one time, never pitched the big leagues. And one of the guys on the bench who never played college baseball, he goes, yeah, I heard he played Pro Bowl. And the guy goes, he's got like 20 days in the big leagues, big deal. That's what he said. That's what he said. And you know, there's no names and it's like, you know, and then they have the words, the cup of coffee. So here's what I tell people. You play high school, you're a good player, and you go to college, play college baseball. Did you play pro ball? No, I didn't get drafted. Did you play Pro Bowl? Yeah, I got drafted. Did you play in the big leagues now? Spent six years in minor leagues. Didn't play in the big leagues. Did you get to the big leagues? Yeah. How long did you play there? Couple of years.
- [45:43]
Podcast Host
Oh, you weren't an All Star?
- [45:44]
Craig Holman
No, I can go on and on and on, and I. And, oh, you were an All Star.
- [45:49]
Podcast Host
You weren't a Hall of Famer.
- [45:49]
Craig Holman
You were a Hall of Famer. You didn't. You didn't go in a Hall of Fame. You know, guys do 10 years in big leagues, and I've heard people say, oh, he was an average player. And so what I like to really get down to, parents, is at some point, even in business, even in business, I've. I've made great money. And I remember when I started with my businesses, I wanted to make this much money. And then when I made that, it wasn't a big deal, and I wanted to make this much money and it wasn't a big deal. So I try to. Chasing that carrot is really disappointing.
- [46:23]
Podcast Host
Sure.
- [46:24]
Craig Holman
And at some point, you're going to be done playing this game, and I promise you, you'll feel like a failure. I played a long time and was an All American, won two national titles. And when the Phillies called me in that morning after 10 spring trainings and said, we gotta let you go. You got, you know, good contract, Triple A, but they wanted me to be a pitch coach. They would like you to be a pitch coach. I got to go home and think about that. But at some point, you're going to be. Kershaw is a stud. He's going to retire this year, and he's going to go, I wish I could have done more. He is. It's never ever enough. So that's what I try to tell the parents. Please just enjoy it.
- [47:09]
Podcast Host
Well, there's a question that's coming to mind for me that I feel like is something I. I'm feeling compelled to bring up, which is. And I want every parent to really think long and hard about this. Don't just gloss over it and, and just give, like, your first initial reaction as your answer. Would you choose. If your son is 10 and you're looking at the next seven, eight years, would you choose to put him through travel baseball? Would you choose to spend all the money that I'm sure you can imagine it's going to cost? Would you choose to sacrifice family vacations? Would you choose to go through the next eight years if you knew that he was not going to get a scholarship. He was not going to get drafted. He was not going to reach, quote, unquote, kind of the dream that every young kid, and I'm sure Your son at 10 years old probably has ambitions to achieve.
- [48:02]
Craig Holman
They all do.
- [48:03]
Podcast Host
Would you choose that pathway anyways? And what's interesting is I think, if I'm being honest, I think a lot of families would probably get to a place where they say yes, but I'd be curious because I feel like maybe their initial reaction to that question is what? Isn't there something better that we could be doing with our time resources? But here I am talking to somebody and look, you know, you were somebody who played professional baseball. You brought up, obviously you were an all American, two time national champion. Your son, you know, 71st overall pick in the draft, daughter. I mean, I've heard about your daughter. We've talked about her. She could rake. She's going to be an amazing coach. You have this experience and so maybe you're the guy who actually got to receive some of the benefit of a lot of that work.
- [48:57]
Craig Holman
I did.
- [48:58]
Podcast Host
But with all of that being said, it would be tragic, as I think about this, for any parent to hear that question and to say, you know, the answer to that is no, I wouldn't do that. And I want you to answer, I want you to speak to that parent. Because I feel like you're somebody who, you think about the time that you've had with your kids going through those ages, if you knew it was going to end and there was going to be a last travel, travel ball event, a last high school game and that was it. Would it be worth it?
- [49:29]
Craig Holman
Absolutely. 110%. It's not even close. And that is a conversation that I've had with parents when their kid was 11. If you play travel and he is seventh, eighth in the order hitting, he, he's a functional player. He's not, not a superstar. We don't know where he's going to be. But this road that you're going to go down and the work ethic and the commitment is a setup for success in life.
- [49:59]
Podcast Host
In life, in life.
- [50:01]
Craig Holman
And that's what I really try to get the parents to understand. We're not talking baseball here. I only hire athletes when I had a lot of employees. The first question when they set out, I'd say, did you play high school sports? They didn't know why I was asking. No, I never played. I just didn't. I went to school and they don't know what it's like to be on a team. They don't know what it's like to have a gut wrenching loss. They don't know what it's like to work hard and see the work happen hard. I work luckier. I get it works in everything, in every business. But the times that the parents, I talked to parents that were on my travel team and they go, man, what I would give to have another weekend sitting around chatting with the parents. I would give anything for that. Half the kids didn't go and do anything. Half the kids didn't certainly go on and play pro ball, but they went to juco a year, maybe didn't finish after that, two and done. They loved every minute and they would do it all over again. And so the ones I catch now went to the game not long ago, and one of the gentlemen that I know through work, his grandson was playing, he goes, man, it's so much fun. I said, it is. It is so much fun. And he said, I don't care if he goes to college and does all that. This is the best time of my life. And his mom walked up and said, when he jogs off that field and hugs his teammates after a win, this is the best time of our life. So the alternative of not playing sports is sitting at home on a phone, on a computer, on a laptop, watching Netflix, basically doing nothing. Unless you want to say, I'm giving up sports to become a dancer. Right. I'm a professional piano person, whatever it is. That's why I'm saying, find your it. What do you want to do? And then pour your heart into it. I've heard things on social media. Is what if you knew you would love, love, love, love, but your heart would be broken. In six years, you'd have the best date, girlfriend of your life, and you'd spend six years of romance, but in the end, it was over. Would you accept that? I had 20 years of marriage with Luke's mom, We divorced, do it all over again. We become best friends because of certain reasons. And I go, in order to find love, you got to risk having your heart broken. Yeah. So same thing with sports. The only thing. And I love the Georgia Tech coach. I wish we could. I could quote what he is Ramsey.
- [52:40]
Podcast Host
Yeah.
- [52:40]
Craig Holman
He does some great stuff, but he says the sport is horrible because you pour your heart into and then you're not guaranteed to win. But then he says the only thing you're guaranteed by not putting your heart and soul into is to lose.
- [52:57]
Podcast Host
Right.
- [52:57]
Craig Holman
And that's it. So we're going to put everything into this. Parents, dad, all this stuff. Kid works hard and then when he comes home and he fails, say, that's okay, we're going to work this week, next week we're going to do better. That is a building block for being a dad, being a good worker, starting your own business. And when things don't go well, you don't quit, you work harder. You find a way to get customers in the door. Everything is a setup. And we talked before this about a poem that Bear Bryant used to read. I had this huge poster at my baseball academy and I printed, I did a lot of stuff, but it was right as soon as you walked in the door. I had numerous parents that would stand there and read that and I would catch them turned away and they'd have tears in their eyes. And if you want me to read it, please, I'll be glad to read it. This was a poster. I'm going to read this and you're going to have some parents go, oh my God, I love that on Craig's wall. So I grew up in Alabama with Bear Bryant. Everyone loved Brent Brian. As a kid you wanted to play college football at Alabama because of Bert Bryant.
- [54:03]
Podcast Host
But just so everyone knows, Bear Bryant was the, literally was like Nick Saban of his age, maybe even better.
- [54:09]
Craig Holman
Yes.
- [54:09]
Podcast Host
The stadium's named after him. Like he was Mr. Football.
- [54:12]
Craig Holman
He was Mr. And as a eight year old kid, you know, my dad loved Alabama football. We sat and watched it. But my dad gave me this when I was a kid. These are one of those things my dad did for me. Who didn't play sports, couldn't teach me how to throw, hit, run, do anything. But he gave me this on a piece of paper. And it was Bear Bryant's daily prayer. Okay, so this is what Bear Bryant said every morning before breakfast. And this was at my baseball place. And I loved for the parents to see it. So this is the beginning of a new day. God has given me this day to use as I will. I can waste it or use it for good. What I do today is very important because I am exchanging a day of my life for it. When tomorrow comes, the day will be gone forever, leaving in its place something I have traded for it. I want it to be a gain, not a loss. I want it to be good, not evil. I want it to be a success, not a failure, in order that I shall not regret the price that I paid for this day. And that was my teaching. I read it my whole life, understood it more. It's funny. As you get older, you get a softer heart and perspective, better perspective of things. I mean, I went through cancer with Luke, which was the hardest thing I've ever went through. And some people still don't know that. I don't even know if we mentioned it on the podcast last time. Luke.
- [55:42]
Podcast Host
I don't know if we did.
- [55:43]
Craig Holman
Luke had lymphoma at 7 years old and did 12 months of chemotherapy. And it was. I weigh 210. I'm fit. I weighed about 165 pounds. Six months into that, I'm sure I look dead. And I don't even know how I would have done if God hadn't, you know, saved his life. And I say that because there's some people that have cancer and don't survive it. But he had 12 months of chemotherapy. So I had a different view of sports. My son went through 12 months of chemo and struggled for a couple of years. And I used to tell, I don't care if he ever plays anything. I want him live, grow up, have a girlfriend, maybe get married and enjoy life. Sports didn't mean anything to me. So it changed the way I taught kids. Because once you go through 12 months of chemo and. And they got a 50, 50 chance to live, you really are not worried how well he's playing baseball. You just want to hug him and love him and tell him that now he did great. And he grew late because of that, stunted his growth. And the doctor, the oncologist said he will grow a lot. 13, 14 years old. And that's what happened. But, you know, Luke just went through Tommy John surgery. So we both have now had Tommy John surgery.
- [56:59]
Podcast Host
Magic scars.
- [56:59]
Craig Holman
His.
- [57:00]
Podcast Host
His. His a little bit more advanced.
- [57:02]
Craig Holman
More advanced. And I had Frank Jobe do mine in California.
- [57:05]
Podcast Host
Okay.
- [57:06]
Craig Holman
Hey, Joe certainly knows what he was doing, and Dr. Yoakum did it with him. But I went to Dallas with Luke and met Dr. Meister, who is incredible. The man, he is such a dude.
- [57:18]
Podcast Host
He's been on the podcast too.
- [57:20]
Craig Holman
Yeah, listen, the nicest man I've ever talked to, and I'm gonna throw something out to see if you even know this. And you're not as old as I am, but when I was a kid I grew up, I watched the monsters.
- [57:29]
Podcast Host
Of course, you know the monsters. Of course.
- [57:31]
Craig Holman
His uncle was the vampire. Oh, I didn't know that in the monsters.
- [57:35]
Podcast Host
I just talked to him yesterday, too.
- [57:37]
Craig Holman
Well, he sent me the picture because I'm gonna show it to you. I said, the Grandpa Munster is he Your uncle, he's like, that's my dad's brother.
- [57:46]
Podcast Host
Wow.
- [57:47]
Craig Holman
He said he was brilliant. One of the smartest people you've ever met, but that was his uncle, so. And then when I saw that, I pulled it up. Kind of looks like it, so. And they all look alike, so it's. It was a really good thing. But, man, did he explain. He did incredible stuff. He took good care of Luke and he's texted me a couple of times, but, you know, those are things that Luke's going to be fine through this. He went through cancer, he went through struggles and, you know, chemo and checkups and. And by the time Luke was 10, man, nothing faced him and he'd been through a lot.
- [58:22]
Podcast Host
And it's like he's impervious to pain.
- [58:24]
Craig Holman
Well, I don't want to say this because I may get teary eyed, but. But I want it said. We were sitting one night watching the basketball in the spring and you know, they had the Jim Bavano thing. Sure. Jimmy V. Foundation. And he died. And they came on and said, Jimmy V. Now, Luke was seven and a half, middle of chemo, but it's a Jimmy V. Foundation. He died with cancer. And I'm sitting on the couch and we didn't talk about death with the can. We just told him he's sick. Yeah, it's called cancer. And Luke spun and looked at me really quick. And I looked at him, he goes. And he goes, am I going to die? That's what he asked me. And I looked at him because the guy just said he passed away. And I said, no. He goes, that guy died and he had cancer and we were six months in.
- [59:12]
Podcast Host
Wow.
- [59:12]
Craig Holman
But it was almost like he didn't put two and two together. And I said, the cancer you have doesn't kill people. That's what I said. I said, he had a different cancer. And I'm sitting there lying, you know, and I said, you're not going to die. You're going to be just fine. And leaned over, I gave him a kiss and I got up and I walked upstairs. I thought, be right back. And I went up like a baby. I did. I sat down on the bed and I cried for 15 minutes. And I don't know what they said on TV, but he turned really quick. And you know, and then, you know, Luke doesn't remember all that stuff we talked about. They've interviewed him about. He's like, I don't really remember a lot of stuff of seven and go through there, but, you know, every once In a while, tell him some things that you said to me. And he said, I do remember that. I do remember that. But when your son at seven asks you, am I going to die, man, there's probably not more terrible place to be. So I really, I did, I do say this a lot, that when I'm on my deathbed one day and I hope he's standing there and his sister's by my side, I'm gonna look at him and go, I'm glad you got cancer. It's the best thing that ever happened. Change their family. I spent every minute with them. I had business trips and I'm very good at what I do with the medical sales and stuff. And they'd send me on trainings to Vegas and I said, hey man, I'm here.
- [60:35]
Podcast Host
Yeah, you got to like, no, I did.
- [60:37]
Craig Holman
I changed everything and I always spread myself thin. I try to do a lot of different stuff, but I locked in and spent the next 10 years of my life right in front of Luke and right in front of his daughter, his sister. And I spent so much time with him and I made it fun. And I wouldn't if they had never received $1. Luke has made a lot of money playing baseball and my daughter went on, had college for free, was an all American and it's going to be an incredible coach. If they had finished at high school and never played one day past high school, it would have been the best 10 years of my life. Just spending time at the field hitting ground balls. I, I tell parents all the time, I don't know about you, but going to hit with my son and my daughter brought tears to my eyes every time we went out and I didn't care. I didn't ask God for one bit of a payment. Hey, we've put all this work in, I need a scholarship. When he say, didn't say anything. And in life when we do work or do things, help people and not expect anything back, I think that's when we're blessed the most. So I would tell every parent, go through the years, if they love baseball, buy them the batting gloves. That's cool, you know, if you can afford it. I used to have parents trade bats because I can't buy any more bats. So I'd have, well, Johnny's 15, here's his 12 year old bat and I would give it to the other parents. So there's things you can do. I still do that. Get him the new bat, get him the batting gloves, let him do it. They'll put work in, but enjoy it. But please don't expect anything out of it except the time spent with your child, which to me is the. The greatest thing ever. And the sooner the parents figure that out, they'll sit back and they'll enjoy every moment and they won't be looking for a payback. They'll enjoy the process. And if it doesn't pay you off at the end of the Them. So what. I had a great time. You know, it's. And that's what parents should understand.
- [62:47]
Podcast Host
If anybody was wondering why you were coming back for a second episode, I think you just explained.
- [62:52]
Craig Holman
That's awesome.
- [62:53]
Podcast Host
Anytime I can do this.
- [62:54]
Craig Holman
Yeah.
- [62:55]
Podcast Host
And the episode goes.
- [62:57]
Craig Holman
I like it.
- [62:57]
Podcast Host
Yeah, I like it. No, man, I. I can't even tell you how much of a blessing it is that. That I get to play a part in your guys's life.
- [63:06]
Craig Holman
Oh, it's.
- [63:08]
Podcast Host
Yeah. This. This. You clearly not only have so much to share, but it comes from such an authentic place that I feel like this game needs more people like you parents. I'll make sure Craig's information. I'll make sure it's on the show notes so that if they want to reach out, they certainly can.
- [63:25]
Craig Holman
I answered every I'm aware Instagram. I had a gentleman. I don't. I'm blanking on his name right now from Florida. Watch the podcast.
- [63:34]
Podcast Host
Who you didn't even know.
- [63:35]
Craig Holman
Oh, I had no idea. Never met him in my life. He sent me a message. He said, I just want to see you. I want to meet your incredible guy. He's a drummer and I'm sorry. I'm blanking on his name now. They went to visit New York this spring. They text me on Instagram and said, how close are you to New York? I said, I'll send you my address. That's up to you. He said, do you. Is it too weird that we come to your house? And they came to my house.
- [64:01]
Podcast Host
Get out of here.
- [64:01]
Craig Holman
They pulled up my driveway. I met the kid. I put him. I got an indoor hitting facility. I'm throwing a built. And he got in there and took.
- [64:08]
Podcast Host
Some swings and hey, be careful now.
- [64:12]
Craig Holman
I hugged the mom, the dad, and I took them inside and I got all the jerseys up and all American and we took a nice photo. I'll send it to you.
- [64:18]
Podcast Host
They meet the dogs?
- [64:19]
Craig Holman
Yes. Dogs were all over the place. I had chickens. I just grabbed chickens and. But I never met them. And so I try to answer every question because this is. This is more than. Oh, yeah, than. Than these people understand this is life. This is stuff they're going to remember. And, you know, I, I work with kids. Okay. I never take a dollar anymore. Business has done well. And I, when I sold the complex and stuff, I'm like, I'll work with your child. You drive up here, I'm not going anywhere. But, you know, so I work with kids. I don't want to start teaching and getting a bunch of people lined up.
- [64:55]
Podcast Host
Hold on. Here's what's crazy because we talked about today, how the resume doesn't matter. Now, here's what's interesting is anybody who's listened to this podcast knows just based on this alone, how much passion you have for helping.
- [65:08]
Craig Holman
Yeah.
- [65:08]
Podcast Host
And for offering assistance and wanting to make a difference. How. How much of an. It would be a shame, I should say, it would be a shame if someone said, oh, but he's not a big leaguer. So I'm not going to, I'm not going to work with someone like, like you. When in reality, after listening to this podcast, I feel like everybody would be saying, no, no. That is literally the definition of the person that I want to work with. My son.
- [65:33]
Craig Holman
Yes. And listen, I know I'm even kill my bright guy. I've done great things. And I'm gonna call a couple of people out too. On. On our last podcast and anything I say on this is my views, not yours. So I don't know what kind of thing I need to read, but the last podcast that you did, we had an agent that comment on. On our podcast. Do you mind if I bring that up? But, you know, there's agents out there that played in the big leagues. And I know well, and I know well through this guy, and they call up and they go, he so and so, so and so. You know, Gary Bennett was a guy put me into Kent Marker. I'm gonna say Kent's name. But these guys that said, I want to represent your son, I think he's with Excel. Yeah, Excel. But, you know, they go, hey, I'm big leaguer. I. I can get him the big leagues. And. And I go, is that a hundred percent? You know, if you're a big league agent, you play in the big leagues and you're an agent, your kids go in the big leagues. But that's not my opinion and that's not my decision to make. And I actually told him that. But, you know, Luke made all those decision, but there was a lot of guys that played big league baseball. Okay. The reason I'm bringing Kent's name obviously commented on Our last post, and we said something about guys getting moved down the big leagues to Triple A. And he's like, how many big league years do you guys have? Which to me is a little salt. But I was in Triple A for 3 and a half years and I saw big leagues get optioned down. And I was in the clubhouse when they came down. They're pissed. And they were there for two months just off trying to get the big league. So I certainly know that they were pissed to be there. So the information is good, but there's too much, you know, badge flashing and, you know, I did this. I. I play in the big leagues two years. I've got eight years in the big leagues. I got a big league pension of 10 years. And I don't care if you were an all star nine years in a row. If my son would rather work with Joe, who played a couple years in college, but he really works with him. And, man, he comes home and goes, we worked for an hour, man, I worked hard. And he motivates him. That's who I want him with. I want him with the person that's going to motivate him. And I said this, I say this quote. I got so many quotes, but parents need to know this. I used to say this. This was on my wall. And you need to understand what I'm about to say here. The. The statement I made, I have parents go, God, he said that so many times. All the parents that were in my academy, information is free. Motivation will cost you money. I used to tell parents that all.
- [68:11]
Podcast Host
The time, information is free.
- [68:12]
Craig Holman
Free.
- [68:13]
Podcast Host
Motivation will cost you money.
- [68:15]
Craig Holman
You can go on the Internet and find out how to do anything today. Anything I want to do. I just replaced a water thing on my Samsung refrigerator that wasn't putting out. Went on YouTube. Boom, boom, went down, fixed it in 10 minutes. Information, yeah.
- [68:29]
Podcast Host
You can hire somebody to come over and he's gonna, yeah, yeah, that's it.
- [68:33]
Craig Holman
But motivation will cost you money. The guy you go see that. I had parents tell me this all the time. Craig, I drive an hour to see you because when he leaves, he's floating on air. We ride home and he's back there with his phone, like, writing down what he's got to do, what you told him. You motivate the hell out of my kid. I don't know how you do it, but I was very good at that. I was very good information. You can go Google how to hit a curveball.
- [69:03]
Podcast Host
Sure.
- [69:03]
Craig Holman
How to stay, but you can Google how to throw a split how to throw a slider. You got so much. There's so many baseball facilities now throwing out how to do this, how to increase five mile an hour. All that's free. All the information is free. But when someone motivates you and they get you in front of them and you feel like you could run through a wall, those people are important and they're rare. They're just rare. And I've had a few in my place. I was the best at it. I don't mind saying that there's a lot of good instructors in my area, but I always say there's Clint Fernandez. I'll say his name. Clint. I don't even know if Clint played any college baseball. He teaches locally and it's a great motivator. Kids love him. And every time I hear a parent say he didn't play anywhere, I'm like, he's really good. Do you. Is he playing for you or is he teaching your kid? And they always go, well, he's teaching, you know, and so it's always that, oh my God, he played in the big leagues. He should know. Jeff Fry. I'm gonna throw. Drive. Fry's a friend of mine. He fights with a guy all the time called the. I call him the Blue Jean guy. I rarely know his name. Works with Judge, I think Richard Shank or. Yeah, something like that. But they're always back and forth. It's actually, I like it. It's funny. Fry is a funny dude. Super. But Fry played 10 years of big leagues more maybe was a hell of a player. And the Richard Shank guy called him a Judy and a terrible player. I mean, he can't be a bad player, play 10 years of big leagues.
- [70:34]
Podcast Host
So.
- [70:34]
Craig Holman
But I'm going to take up for the other guy who I've never met and don't know. He looks like he's never played. I don't know if he did. Anybody wears blue jeans during a camp, I always say they're suspect. When I saw a third base coach out there with blue jeans on and shirt, I go, eh, just put something on. Put some dress pants on or make it look good. Shorts, make it look good, but don't wear jeans and you know, so, but, but it sounds like he works well with Judge and he's got judged by in on his techniques and he motivates Judge and whatever. So, you know, nobody's right and nobody is wrong. They're not. It's what works for you.
- [71:11]
Podcast Host
That's right. Different opinions.
- [71:12]
Craig Holman
What works for you?
- [71:13]
Podcast Host
Yeah.
- [71:14]
Craig Holman
What works for Your son, that's who you need to pick. And you're never going to do enough. You're never going to do enough, so don't worry about it. You're never going to make enough. Well, he only did this. And you know, he's not Elon Musk. You know, it's, it's never enough. So stop chasing it, right? Stop chasing it and enjoy life. And I, I was dirt poor as a kid, and I don't mind saying it. And, you know, we struggled. And eight scrambled eggs and toast for dinner three nights a week. And dad got paid on Friday. We ate at the Dairy Queen, got milkshakes and raised barbecue and we lit it up for two or three days and then struggled, you know, when the money ran out, till I got paid on Friday. But, but money's never made me happy. Not at all. And, and I always tell people that, well, he got to the big leagues and became an asshole. I'm like, no, that guy was an asshole and a ball.
- [72:07]
Podcast Host
Right.
- [72:07]
Craig Holman
He didn't. He was nice on eight ball.
- [72:09]
Podcast Host
Yeah. It's the old saying, money makes you more of what you already are.
- [72:13]
Craig Holman
Yes. I've never heard that, but that's exactly what it is. Everyone that someone says, oh, I met Scott, Roland's nice guy I've ever met, ever did anything, would stand and sign autographs for hours, you know, and he was. When he went to big leagues, same thing. Yeah. You know, it's. Gary Bennett was my roommate for a long time. Gear is one of the nicest people I ever met. Ten years in the big leagues. Won a World Series with the Cardinals. Okay. And you know, one of the nicest guys that he was incredible in the minor leagues, he's incredible in the big leagues. And so you are who you are. It just kind of makes it a little bit louder. But parents will have a wonderful, wonderful 10 year span. But I will let them know this. It goes by quick. And it's gone. And I'm at the house now in Pennsylvania and Jordan's in Belhaven, Mississippi. Luke's out in Arizona. Rehab. And I'm sitting there looking at photos and you know, it's, it's not the happiest time for that empty nest. And yeah, we used to go hit and I got, now I'm going out hitting by myself so I can play the old man league that, that I, that I play in. But it goes so fast.
- [73:21]
Podcast Host
Yeah.
- [73:21]
Craig Holman
And so don't fret, don't, don't worry about it. Just enjoy those years. And whatever happens, I promise you you're going to look back and you'd want to relive them whether they got a college scholarship or not.
- [73:34]
Podcast Host
My man. This was great.
- [73:35]
Craig Holman
That's good. I think it's better than the other one.
- [73:37]
Podcast Host
Yeah. Thank you, brother.