← Most Valuable Agent with Matt Hannaford
Most Valuable Agent with Matt Hannaford
Why 50 Travel Ball Games + 50 Practices Beats 100 Games
00:57:51
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- [00:13]
A
So I feel like we've had this conversation a million times before. We have, but I want to give everybody a sense of why I wanted to have this conversation. So the various things that you've done in your life. Okay. You obviously played college baseball, Ole Miss, which I want to get into, because I don't know how somebody who works with Maruchi went to Ole Miss, but that's. That's one thing. So you went to Ole Miss, you played pro ball, you were a scout for how long?
- [00:38]
B
Five drafts.
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A
Five drafts.
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B
Five drafts full time. Two drafts part time.
- [00:42]
A
Okay. I want to get into that. And then you now do what I will say, like all things Maruchi, but I do kind of want to dive into that, too, so. But that leads us to where we are. So we are at. What do you call this place? The Hitter's House.
- [00:55]
B
Hitters House HQ in Scottsdale. Scottsdale newly opened, renovated the store, have a stable workout facility, baseball performance lab, and then also a full bat testing lab here. So kind of all things baseball. And obviously the mecca of pro baseball here in Scottsdale. Be able to have 15 teams.
- [01:15]
A
So. And you guys have been here how long?
- [01:18]
B
Just opened. Been. Just opened. Just opened. Soft opening around the fall league. And then now this spring will be the first full spring we have.
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A
Nice.
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B
You know, moving forward with.
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A
Amazing.
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B
Awesome. Yeah, incredible.
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A
Obviously, my first time here, I've been to the place in. In Baton Rouge, which is incredible. But let's. Yeah, so let's, I guess, dive into it a little bit.
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B
Sure.
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A
Oh, not. Not only all. By the way, not only do you do all the things I mentioned, you're also a father, Right. Of a son.
- [01:43]
B
Absolutely.
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A
Who plays tribal baseball.
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B
Absolutely.
- [01:46]
A
So I think this is a very important conversation that we can have, and I do believe you can give the families listening a ton of insight. So as a player, you're actually from
- [01:56]
B
Louisiana, From Leesville, Louisiana. Really small town right in the middle of the state. Grew up in two teachers, two teacher household. Dad was a football coach. Coach baseball, too. Really small town, was committed to lsu. Eunice at first, a little bit of a late bloomer. I was young, 17, out of school in the spring. Kind of came on the scene a little bit. Didn't make Team usa, went to trials, and then name kind of got out there and, you know, decided I wanted to go, you know, do something else and end up not going to Eunice and going to Ole Miss, and ended up working out, you know, the best for me, but sat the bench for a while, had to battle a little Bit had Tommy John was on arguably some of the best runs in Ole Miss, you know, to start. Obviously they won a natty since then, but played in three straight super regionals. Righty, lefty, right handed pitcher, right handed reliever. I tell people all the time like I was just, I was just the 8th or 9th guy on the staff with a ton of big leaguers. Lance Lynn and Satterwhite and the names and Biddle and all those Pomerants and unbelievable experience and kind of had to gut it out, you know, wasn't the most talented but did my best to, to just throw strikes and you know, great coaching staff and I felt like I was a tougher kid and Coach Bianco kind of brought that out in us. So, you know, small town in Louisiana and chose to go to another small town in Oxford. And it was great. It was awesome.
- [03:29]
A
I love talking to like, so, you know, we're obviously both not playing professional base.
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B
Right, right, right.
- [03:35]
A
But I love talking to players who, you know, we're grinders. Right. Like things didn't, you know, I'm sure at some level, like when you're an athlete as a 10 year old, like things are going to come a little easier to you than maybe others and then you get to a place where everything kind of starts equaling out and you know, everybody has kind of the end of the road for them in their pro career. And for me, that, that was college as well, or I guess you were pro ball. For me it was college. When I got to the place where I realized, you know, this is not like it just comes easier to them, there is a point in time in which you're like kind of bummed out. Right? Like, what does it say about me? I thought this is what I was supposed to do. But then when you can actually get to a place where you find kind of the next thing that you enjoy and for us we're grateful that we get to continue working in baseball, but when you find that other thing and then you actually realize, oh, I'm really good at this thing, I look at it like a blessing because there are a lot of players who I've worked with and have gotten to know over the years and maybe they didn't, maybe they got to pro one, maybe they got to the big leagues, maybe they made some money in the big leagues, but maybe they didn't quite achieve all that they had dreamed to achieve. And then let's just say that person is 35 years old. And then now going back and figuring out what Am I going to do, you know, for the next 40, 50 years of my life? That transition from that age to obviously being, you know, somebody who's middle aged, having to figure out what they want to do can be a very, very overwhelming thing. And challenging.
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B
Absolutely.
- [05:00]
A
So I like talking to grinders because it's like, yeah, I mean, we got to a place early where we figured out it wasn't, you know, necessarily our future and we were able to kind of capitalize and find something to do. So when you got done playing pro ball, right, how old were you?
- [05:16]
B
2008 draft. I was a fifth year guy at school. Okay. So I was 22 years old. Drafted, went straight to short season, really short career in pro ball. I like to tell people I wasn't really good enough. It took me some time to figure that out. Had a few injuries here or there, but ultimately just, you know, that time kind of where we just talked about of, man, it doesn't come easy to me anymore. It's really hard. So 23 years old, out of pro ball, figure this out into the real world. Was pretty fortunate. My brother was an all American at Southeastern position player, so was able to go there to work on finishing my degree, but also was really fortunate they had a coach leave there. J.R. teagues was the head coach and asked like, hey, you want to coach college baseball? You know, you come from it. I was kind of training there, just figuring out for pro ball back and forth and it kind of fell in my lap of, you know, I found myself coaching first base for Southeastern. We won 40 games that year.
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A
I didn't know this.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Okay, so you're also a coach.
- [06:20]
B
Sure. So spent two seasons, been about draft 08 in the pro ball, pitched in 09 back to spring training, finished that year and then kind of had to figure out what to do. So my brother was there, went to Southeastern and then ended up, you know, fortunately being around some great coaches. Justin Hill, who's head coach, McNeese still Matt Reiser, who's at Memphis. So kind of fell in my lap on that, you know, that staff and ended up going like, man, this is kind of awesome. I get to still be around the game and then coach. My brother was on the team and spent two seasons at Southeastern, there 10 and 11 at Southeastern and was like kind of thinking that was going to be the path for me of coaching.
- [07:04]
A
So then what happened?
- [07:06]
B
Enjoyed it. It was great. A little bit different change of scenery, right. Coming from Ole Miss to pro ball to Southeastern and my brother was done and kind of missed pro ball enough to stay around it. One of the Marlin scouts lived in Hammond and kind of just got connected with him of like, hey, I think I want to get into scouting. And was coaching, you know, some summer ball stuff, running camps, and he was like, hey, you want to be a part time guy? So just being around the ballpark enough and got to know some of the guys who still scout today and then went on an interview. David Post and Michaelias. The Astros hired me in that, that fall of 2012. So started with Houston then and then, you know, first draft, 13 all the way through, we talked about there. So.
- [07:57]
A
Yeah, and that experience of getting into scouting, how do you feel like that has served you even today?
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B
Well, the, the fortunate part of just being at the park, right, is something that I, you know, we all might take for granted. We still get to work in the game and talk about. It took me a little while to, to step back as a, you know, from being inside the lines to outside the lines, to be able to go like, man, is that a good breaking ball? Or like, hey, what type of player was I? I think, you know, the transition helped of, you know, put, put the goggles of myself on of, like, what type of player was I? What type? Could I get him out? Or like, would this guy get a hit off me or how would I pitch him? I think the, the, you know, closeness of just now, you know, just coming from playing and then seeing some of the better college players right into scouting helped me kind of have a, you know, call it like a thermometer, if you will, or a gauge of how, you know, what the game looks like. Obviously didn't play in the big leagues and looking for that type of player and then thrown right into this, you know, arguably one of the best areas in the country of Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee and Florida, you know, a ton of SEC baseball, a ton of great college and high school players and, and really learning. And I kind of looked at it as like, how would I get this guy out? Or, you know, how would. Would, you know, I pitch him or how would he be able to hit off of me? So the, you know, coming right out of it, I think really helped me, you know, kind of evaluate the players of put myself back right back on the field.
- [09:27]
A
How hard is that? Because I, I think about this often and I think about it from the standpoint of if I'm a parent who has a son who's 13, right, how hard it is for, you know, again, when you're a scout, obviously, you're not scouting a 13 year old, but you're scouting someone who's 17, 18, right. But when you scout someone who's 18 or 17, and then you go scout a college kid who's, let's say, 21, 22 maybe, I mean, those are obviously some pretty significant age gaps there. How, as a scout would you look at a guy at a high school versus college?
- [10:01]
B
I think a lot of it is, you know, obviously you have the body types and how they move and athleticism. I think the part about scouting that I learned from some of the, you know, you know, the veterans in there, you know, the organization is, is if you dream on guys, right, I think you have to look a lot of it is future down the road. And, you know, body type plays probably the biggest aspect, at least now it's analytically driven a little bit more than it was. I was on the forefront of analytics really coming in those, you know, 2013, 2014 years. But, you know, the, the difference of a guy who's at Ole Miss and a kid who's at Leesville High School is, is drastic. You're, you're right. And I think the, the body type and the way they move was the number one indicator, at least for, for my eyes and, and I call it like my type of scouting of like, you know, what does it look like? But then also you, you know, I think we underestimate character and how they carry themselves and usually can kind of pick up on that. You know, you get a chance to know them and as an area guy, that's your job, right? You know, you don't just evaluate them on the field, but what type of person they are, do they work? And I think that was the part that was probably the hardest was how do you take what is a 17 year old going to look like on the backfield of astros when he's 18 or what does he look like four years down the road? And a lot of it, I think is conviction from how you feel, but also what do you think their body is going to, you know, transpose into or how does it look in four years? And look, it's, it's hard, right? I tell people all the time, like, oh, how's scouting? Was like, it's tough. You know, we miss a lot. The industry misses a lot. Doesn't mean people are bad players. But we scout everyone like they're going to be a big leaguer and every guy we draft, we intended to be a big leaguer at some point. So that was probably the hardest thing for me, of that high school to college guy. And I think now the industries gets to use a little bit more of the age and its benefit. So I always go back to how do they move? What do their bodies look like? And how do I dream on them A little bit?
- [12:07]
A
Yeah. As a scout, I think about it through the lens of a player who gets signed, right? Whether high school or college, it doesn't matter. And they enter professional baseball on some level, to no fault of the industry or the team, but on some level, I feel like, because this is a job for a scout, a job for the general manager, the farm director, whomever, it's very hard or very, I should say very easy to look at a player through the lens of, like, what is this guy's abilities? But almost like not even see a face on some level, right? Like, how good is this thing? He's this good, so I'm going to value him this way. And it's. It basically creates a situation where that player is then treated, let's just say good if they're good, maybe not so good if they're not any good anymore. How hard was that would you find? I mean, as an area scout, you're obviously getting to know the families, getting to know the kid, and knowing you personally, like, you're a good human being. Right? But how hard was that when you saw, okay, an organization is capable of doing that? Would it ever, like, bum you out if you had a player that you really, really liked and you're like, oh, man, this guy's going to get just crushed at the next level? Did that ever happen?
- [13:17]
B
Yeah, no. It's a great question, actually. And I do like to, you know, take pride in getting to know kids. And I think, you know, being around y', all, you see my personality as I felt like that was a strong suit I would like to bring to the table to the Astros of like, hey, now, not only is he a player, but I definitely would get for sure bummed out where you spend a lot of time with someone and not only do you think they're talented or, you know, you dream on them. You know, you let your emotions get in there some because you can see a little bit beyond a widget, if you will, right? It's not just like, he's not just a baseball player, he's a person. And, you know, does he bring value to the organization, the locker room, all those things will help carry him. And there were several guys that. That you just felt convicted on of, like, hey, this guy's. He's got it right. And then you get to the draft room maybe, or maybe another scout sees him or the industry kind of deems him like, man, I'm really high on this guy, but definitely would get, you know, bummed out's a great word of like, man, I really wanted know Matt. I really wanted crier. And that plays a big part. And also I think it plays into some players benefit. Right. I think guys get drafted or scouted different by the way they carry them. So there's no secret on. There's a ton of that. We, you know, your industry does the same thing, right. And if you take the widget, as we used to call it out of it of like, just evaluate them inside a box, like, what type of baseball player is he? Period? That weighs apart. But the, the personality on the other side, I think is. Is definitely not overlooked. But as an area guy, you get to know someone, you're like, man, I really want to take him. And, you know, you put your gut feel stickers on him and you're all in. And then, you know, either someone else drafts him or you get, you know, the team doesn't take him. Either way is. Is tough. You know, it's. And I still have players today. I go in the locker rooms or see them and it's awesome to see of like, hey, man, I loved you as a player. It doesn't surprise me where you are, you know, and there's some guys that I completely whiffed on. I mean, me and Antoine talk about all the time of like, man, I really like this guy. And I was like, ah, didn't get out of a ball. Still a great player. But it happens a lot.
- [15:24]
A
Yeah. Which is one of the reasons why the mental fortitude, the maturity, all that stuff does matter to these teams. There's a reason for it. Right. I was talking to a player earlier today, and it's just getting. Getting these young guys into a place where they understand the importance importance of like, the really, really small things that they may take for granted every day that to an MLB organization, it's like, this is so important.
- [15:48]
B
Sure.
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A
And at that age, at 17 or 18 years old, you think, why? Like, I don't understand. Why does that matter? They don't have the foresight or the life experience to see that at 25 or 26, what does this turn into? Turns into a much bigger issue if you can't, you know, do this one particular thing at 17, 18 years old. So is there a, like a stamp, a proud moment in the draft where you're like this guy, no one else was high on him. I was. And like he, he hit.
- [16:17]
B
I actually saw one today. It's crazy how life kind of comes full circle sometimes. I think, you know, the thought of like uncovering a rock and finding a player in the past 15 years is really tough. Right? Like the industry's done such a good job of finding players, but the draft is still the one place where you can kind of, you know, you say slow play it or you know, if you know your area really good, you can go to your director, your cross checker and say like, hey, I'm, you know, not a lot of guys are on him, but I. So we can wait a few rounds. Chucky Robinson from Southern Miss, late teen round pick, still playing in the big leagues today. Kind of up and down, but those type of things like he's, he's one player I'm like really proud of, of, of not only as a player. I mean he's a great human being and doesn't surprise me that he, you know, he's catching a bullpen for Ohtani today, you know, so that's just a later round that I think. You know, it's easy to get caught up in the unbelievable players who've, you know, first round and guaranteed Stamp a big leaguer. But it's really nice to have some guys like that of, you know, Chucky was an awesome one. Jake Rogers was, you know, still playing, you know, a high round draft pick. But players like that, that you can get in good places that you have to be a little convicted on to do it and several guys that had great careers, you know, Chris Cotton, we took and pitched in AAA and he's left handed, you know, guy. But those players that you could gut feel and Chucky's one of my, one of my ones that I still think about today of like man, we gave him a chance and somebody else was definitely going to draft him, but maybe took him a round or two higher than someone else. You know, valued and has been a great part of a lot of organizations.
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A
What's something that you think would surprise the listener about MLB teams or the draft room?
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B
I think one surprise and just you know, guys like cry. Tell me about the draft room is like there's a ton of uncertainty. You know, I think there's so many lists that come out and you know, projected guys and there's so many factors that go into where a guy gets drafted. So me being inside that room, you know, you go into it thinking like, oh, someone's going to take him really early or someone's going to take them for sure. Like, how does this guy go undrafted? That's probably the one thing that I think if someone who's never experienced is like, you feel like this guy's a slam dunk, no question is going to get drafted and he's still staring at you in the 20th round. That was the biggest eye opening thing for me because there's so many good players in the world. I think people don't talk about that enough because we see everybody's success and, you know, not to get. I'm sure we'll get into some social media stuff, but like, all you see is how this guy's goodness. There's so many good players out there. So deciphering through the draft of, you know, and I take it all the way back to me like I was a right handed pitcher who threw, you know, 90, 94 miles an hour with not a real good breaking ball. And now those guys might not get drafted. Like, there's so many good players now and, and being in that room is like, man, how did you know? How did he not get drafted? That was my biggest kind of like,
- [19:20]
A
I love that you say that too, because I think one of the things that gets asked often through the draft with a lot of these parents and the players is, you know, tell me as early as possible where I'm going to go, how much I'm going to sign for. And I hate having to give them the answer of like, we are nowhere near the time that you're going to need for them to figure this out. They have to continue watching you. Obviously, you know, the season has to kind of play itself out. You know, yes, you had a good summer, but you really need to continue to do this in the spring. Do you stay healthy? There's all these different things that need to happen, but I think sometimes families don't realize how late teams actually figure out what they're going to do.
- [19:58]
B
Absolutely. And that's probably a better way to describe what I was saying. I mean, even being in the draft room, Houston was a team that brought every scout to the draft. It was an unbelievable experience. We would go all the way to, hey, we have to have the pick immediately. And I'm the area guy not knowing if it's my guy or not. And I'm physically in the room. So when a player or a college coach or someone goes like, hey, where do you think Cryer's going to get drafted as an area scout? We could give a, you know, a Pretty range, but it could be way off or it could be perfect. And just the, the uncertainty all the way up to, you know, round seven, pick four, we might not know until pick three goes. Yeah, that was the biggest. You know, probably what the, you know, the normal person doesn't know is like the teams have arguably outside of one one, you know, it could go a thousand different ways.
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A
Well now too, with the models.
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B
Sure.
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A
Right. A lot of the models are dictating the actual choice. Not 100 of the time, but on some level, that's what's happening. And so, well, naturally you have to wait to see, well, who's, what's the board look like? Who's, who's even available?
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B
Sure. Right.
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A
Who just went the pick before. And so yeah, it's, and that's a
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B
awesome question, you know, of, like, if anyone can tell you where they're going to get drafted 10 minutes before the draft, I might call them out on it. They'll give you a range. But even, even the scouts in the room, we don't know.
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A
All right, so because you were a scout, tell everybody how old your son.
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B
My son is 10.
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A
10.
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B
He's 10.
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A
And he is fully in the throes of travel baseball.
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B
We are, we fought it for a while, I'll be honest, and we are fully immersed in it now. And he's obviously very fortunate in the resources that we have, from work to where we live to the experiences he's had, but we're fully in it. And I'm coaching alongside another way better player than me, Will Harris, longtime big leaguer. We both have 10 year olds in the area and decided to get together, but I would still say I'm somewhat new to it. You know, we really didn't go full travel ball. It's really just like right in the two years into it because I kind of fought it, you know, and I think I could probably give you a lot of reasons why I fought it. But also I think there's a right way you can do it. I think there's a way that gets really hard to do it. And my little man loves it. And I used to say, you know, guys at the office like, oh, just wait, cry. You're going to be all in it. And I was like, nah, nah, I don't know, man. Like, it's tough. And now, you know, fast forward a couple years, it's like, no, when's practice? You know, my little man sending me videos of him hitting and we go to the cage and it's, it's awesome.
- [22:46]
A
So what when you say you think there's a right way to do it, that I want to get into it, because I think we have a luxury of talking to you about this. I just had Kurt Suzuki on as an example. Right. So you have the big league manager of the Angels who also runs a travel organization, and he's giving his perspective. And I wanted to give the listener a clear view into that. The same way I want to give him a clear view into kind of like how you would see it. Because if you have this experience, having played in college, played in pro ball, scouted, worked for MLB organizations, if you're a parent listening to this, who doesn't have any of that stuff, and you're like, well, I just, I want to be told, like, what's too much, what's not enough? What should I be doing? What is your right way of doing it, do you think?
- [23:26]
B
And it, it might not be the 100% right way. I think I've tried to put a lens on of the, the totality of what we're trying to do. Ultimately, you know, the goal is to get them ready to play. If they're in 9U, the goal would be really to get them to play 10U, 11U and so on. So I, I think right now where, where we are is in a good place. I'm not going to, you know, sit here and say it's, you know, baseball's, you know, I think you can get on both sides.
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A
Sure.
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B
So I think it's in, it's in a good place. And I think the, maybe the, if we don't say the right way, but it's the way that I think there is, is like you have to practice a lot. You know, the industry is showing us you have to play a lot now. The game is getting faster earlier. So I think for me has been, you know, eye opening to accept that. Right. I wanted to fight it for a while. So that's the part that, that's learning that I think is the, the way to go. Now. I think there's pockets of the country that we can sit here and say are, you know, maybe more advanced in the travel ball space or less advanced in the rec space. Either way, you splice it. So to me, where we've kind of headed is that I think there's a way to practice a lot and play a lot with some rest involved. I think the word rest doesn't, you know, sit well with a lot of people. And even, you know, I fight it all the time. So is Play another sport in some form, fashion, whether it's, you know, full time, part time, cross training, I think is the benefit of something that maybe our generation done more than now. So for us it's be prepared to play a lot. But the probably part I keep kind of going back to is don't make it bigger than it is too early. Right? And look, I can look at myself sometimes. It's like man, we're in a 10 year old baseball game. But it is as pressure packed as me pitching in the SEC tournament, you know, and it's really hard because you have parents involved and umpires involved and money involved and really, really good players. So we've kind of taken the, the approach for us is that be around the best players you can be around. I think is, is very important. That doesn't mean you do it at the expense of somebody else. But I do think that if you are around the right people and the right kids, it makes everyone better. So start there and then try to not make it bigger than it is. And that's taken some time for me. I've probably failed at it before. But go at it in a way of hey, we're going to teach you and we're going to try to develop you. We're going to put you in some situations that you're probably going to fail. We're going to put you in some situations that we want you to have some success. But how do we not make that bigger than it is? And then you Fast forward to 30 games and you know, whether they're having too much success or not enough success ultimately is their view of how the game of baseball is because they're, you know, they're, they're easily, you know, molded, if you will, of, of what's happening and they're really aware of it. So that approach of just trying to not make it bigger than it really is. When you can go to any ballpark in any state for a nine or ten year old baseball or probably softball game and it feels like the alcs, you know, and I think that's the part we're trying to, you know, at least my little group and the people I'm around, I'm surrounded by some, you know, some great friends, some great coaches, great resources and take that approach of like how do we find really good players, coach them really hard, but also not try to make it bigger than it, than it really is.
- [27:07]
A
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I love actually how you phrase that. I believe travel baseball is a lot like kind of Life in a sense where we are all enticed to take something and make it the most important thing, whatever, like fill in the blanks, whatever that is. Right. And I think what youth sports and travel baseball has become is something that if left unchecked, turns into a validation for the parents, maybe, you know, looking at your son. And I believe that everybody who is involved in travel baseball, if they have a son who's playing, wants the best for their son. No one, no one is putting them through this, thinking this is not going to help them. Right, sure. But I do agree with you. Like put, keep it in perspective. This thing, whatever it is, it's going to mold and it's going to change and it's going to grow in some instances and then in some instances it's going to retract. Right. It was describing to somebody the nature of like a big league free agent negotiation. And I was like, you have to visualize it like this moving and growing organism that you're constantly trying to like judge and read. And this is kind of the same. You have this experience and there's going to be some seasons that it's really, really positive and then there are going to be some seasons that's a huge challenge. And most of the time that, that stems from like that particular player maybe hitting a wall because other guys are maybe as good as he is or maybe a little bit better. So I believe the right approach, and again, right approach is relative here, but I believe the potential right approach would be one where the parent, whether it's the mom or the dad, has complete self awareness. If they want this for any sort of selfish reason, they need to know it. And so when they're going through this experience, they can sense from themselves. All right, I'm getting a little too animated here. I need to like back off. Like that's, that's one of the biggest things. Because everything that we hear about with you sports isn't through the lens of the 13 year old. It's only through the lens of mom and dad. Mom and dad saying, this is way too expensive. Mom and dad saying, this is all stupid. Mom and dad saying, this is the greatest thing in the world. Mom and dad saying, oh, we're disappointed, we spent so much money, it didn't work. What a mistake. Right, sure. But it's. None of this is through the lens of the kid. And I think because of that we're going to learn maybe down the road, like what were the effects of the way travel baseball was for this 10 year period of Time we're going to learn that much later.
- [29:39]
B
No, I think that's a part of, we're just now seeing some of the guys get to the big leagues that have been in travel ball, if you will, for their entirety of their career of these guys who attend now are in the big leagues. You know, 10 years ago is when it kind of really started to go. And it's, it's really interesting I think, you know, to kind of reiterate that part. What, what makes it really hard though, and this is maybe something that could help, you know, a parent is that it's so year to year. You know, you said like they're constantly changing, they're getting bigger, some are hitting puberty faster, some are really small and they get really big. And what's, what's hard is that all of us here, if we wanted to, you know, me speaking as being a coach and someone who, you know, I hope I do the best job I can to mentor and coach him is that, you know, it gets said a lot like where you're giving up on kids or you cut this kid or he's not good enough for your team. That's what gets really hard. And I think it's a, you know, double edged sword a little bit because in one hand you can, you know, if you look at yourself in the mirror, you say, well technically if I choose, you know, you to be on my team and not you to be on my team, then I'm not giving him a chance. I think the, the part that, you know, it's, it's so fast that that's what, you know, me and Will, we, we, we talk every day usually is like we have to make decisions on, on kids so fast at 9 and 10 years old, do we think they're good enough? Do we want them on our team? And it, it ultimately goes back to the parents, you know, goes back to what type of parents are they, but what do they want for their kid? And I think that's the, you know, if you put this whole, you know, lay of cards out of what's right, you know, all those things go into effect. But the industry has pushed down, you know, making decisions on players, whether it be for Team USA, whether it be for my 10 year old team, it's so fast now and I think it, it frustrates, you know, some parents that are spending money and time and effort and you know, might, someone might feel like, oh, they're giving up on my kid when you know, it's not necessarily looked at that but is just to be patient, right? Like, that's what I try to. At least what I'm learning. I'm definitely not perfect, is like, you gotta be patient, but you also have to be really, really aware. And I think that's the lack. Right. So many parents. I'm not just calling the parents out, but the lack of awareness of where your child actually stands at that age doesn't mean they won't be a good baseball player. Doesn't mean they won't be a great baseball player. But the. The speed of it creates impatience, right? It's the enticing of, like, well, he's better than I am. And then it puts the pressure back on the coach. And, you know, ultimately you get picked on or, you know, someone says something bad about you or whatever. And. And that's the part of the. The awareness, I think, is where it's kind of gotten big, right? That it's, you know, you hear all these things. It's watered down. There's so many teams, there's thousands of. And people making money, but they're still playing baseball, which is ultimately. We all want that to happen, but the speed of it is what's really hard for a parent to make a decision, Doug, on this team or this team, or how far. And ultimately it goes all the way down to awareness. That would be my number one word. It's like, be aware of what you are. And then the comparison model eats everyone up, even myself.
- [32:59]
A
And I think. And I'm thinking about this as I'm hearing you share all of this, because I agree, I think, what could help parents? So I get these DMs all the time from these moms and dads who ask me very pointed questions sometimes, sometimes general questions. But I got one the other day, and the question was, Matt, I know you're saying I did an episode specifically about how, you know, mom and dad, you're not the hero, right? Your son's the hero of his journey. You're the guide. And there was a lot of people that were pushing back, funny enough, and what they were essentially trying to convey is, yeah, but what. What do you say about, you know, Tim Lincecome's dad who helped him out? And it's like, well, yeah, I mean, they're obviously outliers where parents can do certain things and be really effective. But I would rather us err on the side of let's.
- [33:47]
B
Let's.
- [33:47]
A
Let's back off a little bit, give them a little bit of space. And then, yeah, if you can come in and add value here and there. That's all great, right? But I do believe that we need to look at this whole thing more generally and say, okay, if we can start general, maybe like wide view and say, go out there and play 10 year old.
- [34:06]
B
Right?
- [34:07]
A
Go out there and just have fun. Be a kid. Okay, next level. All right. You're getting better. Are you enjoying yourself? Yes. Okay, next level. All right. A. So we have practice three days a week. Are you loving it? Yes, next level. And then it's just like, we're getting more narrow, more narrow, more narrow. And I believe that that happens naturally over time. But parents, and I'm hoping that it comes from a place that they see that their son loves it. But parents get to a place where like, what more can we do? And it's like, well, hold on. How old's your son? He's 10. Okay, wait a second.
- [34:40]
B
Right, sure.
- [34:41]
A
And I've had to tell people and funny enough, I've actually interacted with people online about this where I've said, you're not really gonna even have a general sense of how good your kid really is. Like, can he go to college until he's at least like 15? That's where you're like, okay, this kid's now gone through puberty. Maybe he's even still growing. And, and he's finally at a place where it's like, no, no, he's good now. I'm not guaranteeing that he can go to college, but he's got a chance, like, if he continues to improve on this level.
- [35:06]
B
Like, yeah, this kid moves pretty well.
- [35:07]
A
He's got a chance. But so many parents want to figure it out earlier. Cause it's, Is this money going to a good cause? Is it. Should, should he be doing something else? Is there more that we should be doing? And so all of that noise, I just think makes it next to impossible for these parents today to really know exactly what to do. And so what happens is they're just like, this is crazy. We're doing everything people are saying. It's not working. We joined this travel team, it cost us X number of dollars and my son's not playing. And so the majority of time we hear all the negative stuff, when in reality it's like, what started all of this, right? And I don't know, I don't know the answer. A million different opinions, but it's.
- [35:52]
B
And I think that's what I, you know, I kind of touched on it. The speed of it is what's hard. It's Making a parent make a decision, you know, whether they're doing it because they want them to get a scholarship or whether they're doing them because they want to be a good human being, you know, or they want them to be better at football or whatever the speed of it is what is now, you know, really hard, right, is like how much effort, time, money, all those go into it to like be good at what, right? And then also, you know, I have a 10 year old right now who, he's a good player. We don't know how good he's going to be in four years, but he loves it and we're going to keep pushing. But someone else might be in a, you know, he might get passed up, but that other person might say, well this is crazy that we're on this team and we got to practice three days a week and it's non stop and I think the speed of which that happens and you know, if I could share anything, it would be like it's okay if they're not playing 100 games a year. It's okay if they're not playing 70 games a year. I think we get too caught up in how much and how often.
- [36:50]
A
It's like a formula.
- [36:51]
B
It's like, well, if they're not doing it, then they're not good, right? And I'll be the first to, you know, look at myself in the mirror and say sometimes we all get caught up in the, that team's doing this or they're playing more, we got to practice more. We're not, we're going to get our butts whipped if we're not ready. And at the end of the day it's, you know, it's 10 year old baseball, but I think it has, you know, 10 years ago we were talking about this at 15 and 16 and now guys are traveling the country at 12 and the industry's demon, who's going to be good and whether we know it's right or not. But something's, you know, creating that like almost like I'm missing out feeling. And it's, it's really hard. It's hard to coach, it's hard to be a parent in it because you feel like any moment it might change. And you know, patience is key. I think patience is key and, and just really go like, okay, they're 10, we lost, it's okay or we won and it's okay, you know, and all of us probably do a good job and a bad job of it. Sometimes it's hard.
- [37:50]
A
I want to Reiterate something you said earlier. Put it in perspective. The parents need to put it in perspective.
- [37:55]
B
It is, it's put it in perspective. Be aware of it and do your best. And with so much noise. To not be enticed.
- [38:05]
A
Yeah.
- [38:05]
B
To, to not, you know, to get it out of perspective. Right. Because if you want to get it out of perspective, you can really fast.
- [38:13]
A
Sure.
- [38:13]
B
And we all, we all probably fall victim to that in everything we do.
- [38:17]
A
Well, because it feels good.
- [38:18]
B
It's awesome. Yeah, it feels great. It feels, it feels good. Your kid enjoys it, they have fun, they, they smile and you know, and I don't, I think we get caught up in like, oh, they're winning rings or chasing rings. Like, no, they're winning. That's like, I mean, you want to win in your job, I want to win in our job. You know, that's something that it's creating. So it's not all negative. Right. I think we hear that negative side a ton of like Crier's team's practicing three days a week. They want to go, you know, they want to take over the world. No, but we want to be prepared. And I think if I'm aware and I put myself and my child at the first, at the forefront of that and put it in perspective of where I think he is and where I think his trajectory is and, and try to surround ourself with that, then it's up to me or it's up to the parent to make that decision of how hard they want to go. It's not. There's no right or wrong answer. And then that's the hard thing is that you get. You know, I feel sometimes I go to the park and like someone, someone out there right now on my little 10 year old team in Louisiana who's going to play 40 to 60 baseball games, somebody thinks I'm really crazy and somebody thinks I'm nowhere near crazy enough. Right. So it's all about your perspective and your awareness and, and where your child fits. I think that's the, you know, obviously none of us have a handbook for it, but that would be where I start. Yeah.
- [39:40]
A
Well, even if we had a handbook for it, I'd say don't follow the handbook because again, your situation is totally different. Unique to you.
- [39:47]
B
Sure.
- [39:48]
A
I have told parents repeatedly that if you had to show kind of like a priority list, at least how it appears to most parents as far as what their son is doing in the focus, number one for most parents is exposure. They think exposure is the most worth thing and we've got to go do everything. The second is competition. The third is development. And I basically tell people like that, good rule of thumb, turn that upside down, right? Have the focus, number one, be development. We need to go out there and get better every single day. We need to work on it. We need to enjoy working on the game. And then you can use the development. And then the number two thing is, is competition, right? Let's go play in events. Let's go get the experience that we need. You use 1 and 2 and then very creatively say, all right, am I ready for that exposure? If I go out there and perform at a high level, what does it mean?
- [40:38]
B
Right.
- [40:38]
A
If you, if you're solely focused on exposure at 10 versus exposure at 16, you can see how well at 16, yeah, you're. Now there's a reason why you're playing in front of these people where maybe at 10 it's not as important. It doesn't mean don't go to events. It just may help you understand, is this an event that I should be focused on?
- [40:56]
B
Right.
- [40:56]
A
And so I've given that to a lot of families and I've told them, I'm not saying that this is like the gold and this is the math equation that you were looking for, but it at least can guide your thinking when it comes to what should I be doing the majority of the time with my son, Right?
- [41:12]
B
Absolutely.
- [41:13]
A
Okay. If you looked at that as far as your son goes, like, how much time would you say, you guys devote to development?
- [41:23]
B
I would venture to say we're in the 1% of it, obviously have resources, but we're practicing and hitting and throwing and footwork or just baseball specific, at least five days a week for a couple hours a day. So I would say nine to 11 hours a week. You know, to splice it all the way down to that is just pure practice and development. No high stress situation. We're not going to go play a whole bunch of tournaments. But purely working on development and the craft of the game and learning it is what I, you know, I value and I think it helped me as a player and I'm trying to pass that along. And in an industry where so many people, like, we played 100 games, I personally would err on playing the 50 games and practicing 50 other times. And I think that's what's lost now to be ultimately, you know, honest and pure. Just like my opinion is that we play too much and practice too less. I mean, I think that's a probably, if you run around these spring training facilities. And you ask some of these coaches of, like, some of the players they're getting. I heard it today of just like, yeah, these guys come to us sometimes and they forget how to practice.
- [42:35]
A
Yeah.
- [42:35]
B
Because. Because it's. It's so ingrained in them now to like, we're just going to go play and go play, roll the balls out there, play. You'll either get better or you won't. You'll either survive or not. And, you know, they. They forget how to practice that picking on college baseball or high school baseball or even travel ball. But I think it's ultimately, you have to devote time to development, and that's through practice. And guess what? Practice isn't fun.
- [43:00]
A
Right.
- [43:00]
B
Hitting in the cage three days a week is not fun. Right. And that's the, you know, the good and the bad part of playing a baseball game is there's a winner, there's a loser. You hit a home run, you naturally want to go back and play the next day. The coach has some success, the parents have success. Like, yeah, I'll go play on that team, too. And then you learn. Look up and it's like, in practice, any. Right. And then we try to coach them, you know, at whatever age they get them or a high school coach gets them, and they forget and they don't know how to practice. I think that's the. Probably the biggest. The biggest part. But you said something that. And you asked me earlier of, like, what's something that the whole thing goes with scouting and all this is that ultimately too, like, know your kid. You know, like, know how much your kid can go. I used to sit in homes as a scout for the Astros and say, like, no one knows their child better than you do. So if you're gonna make a decision on if they should sign or go to college based on what you want or based on what the industry says, look to your child first. And I would encourage anyone to say, goes past, does my child like it? It's like, can he handle it? What's his personality? Like, know your kid, and if you can do that, I think you might have a better journey, you know, along the way. Your coach ultimately then just gets better. Cause you put him in a better situation. If you know your child, you pick the school that you're getting recruited at. Not based on what you think you should do, but if you know your kid. And ultimately, if you take it all the way to if your kids should sign or not, like, you know your son or daughter, whatever, better than anyone Else. And, and don't let that get lost by all the noise. I think it's. It's really easy to. To do that.
- [44:43]
A
Yeah, I do. Like earlier you brought up how your son plays another sport.
- [44:47]
B
He does. He plays flag football. I'm trying to get him in. We played basketball and then we, you know, ultimately he's always like, dad, all I want to do is practice baseball. I mean, yeah, you know, so many of our friends, like, man, I saw y' all hitting again, hitting again, you know, but he loves it. But I think it's taken some really hard conversations with him, even at 10, of like, you know, hey, you're going to play something else. My wife Carly is big on it too. And sometimes I can fall victim to, like, oh, we'll just go do baseball.
- [45:17]
A
Sure.
- [45:17]
B
Because he loves it. He's good at it right now, and it's a way that I connect with him. So, you know, sometimes I'm known around our office, like, I don't even like football. You don't like any other sport. That's not always the case. But I think this year he's played. He played flag football, arguably, because we made him. Because I think it was going to make him better smart. And he magically, he's, I think, on path to have a better baseball season than he did last year. Just on body awareness, body movement, handling failure. I made him do something that he didn't like to do. Yeah. And he didn't have the most success in it because he's not really interested in it. But we had to show up every day and had to go to practice. And I think that's what, you know, not to get way off path, but, like, you gotta do hard things, you know, And I think, you know, as a parent, that's our goal, Right. It's like, how do we get our kid to do something that's not easy?
- [46:15]
A
Well, and I think as adults, we've all now been on this earth for, you know, a number of years. We've seen, oh yeah, something I really loved maybe 10 years ago. And I got over it. It was just too much. I burned out on it. So I started doing something else.
- [46:29]
B
Right.
- [46:29]
A
Whatever it is, whatever hobby, right. Golf or, you know, pickleball or honestly, whatever it is. So talking to like a 10, 11, 12 year old, he doesn't know that there's burnout. And so if it. And not that you're even forcing him, it's like, this kid wants to play more baster, but you're smart enough to know look, man, like, you also need to have fun and be a kid. And so, like, no, you need to do some of this other stuff too. And then added to that is the added benefit of, yeah, what kind of athlete can he become? Because he's doing these other, you know, movements and lifting differently or probably not even lifting yet, but he's doing different things with his body that he wouldn't be doing if he was just playing baseball.
- [47:07]
B
Sure.
- [47:08]
A
And so, yeah, I think every parent, again, has to have the foresight to know, need to be smart here.
- [47:13]
B
It's hard though. And I'm, you know, looking inside of myself. It's like, it'd be really easy for us to just be like, yeah, you just play baseball, you know, and it's, it's a fight with him, I'll be honest, because it comes easy. Baseball is something that he's comfortable with. So trying to keep that mindset of like, we have to do something else, you know, it's hard. And, and I think again, we talked about the outside noise and the enticing of like, he can be ranked or our team can go play this and if I play another sport, then I'm going to miss baseball all the time. I think it's, you know, it's get, you know, you get distracted really easy. And I'm going to do our best and, you know, me and Carly will do our best to make sure he's doing something else. You know, whether it's pick some other sport, you know, basketball, football, something. Until that time comes where the scouts and our industry goes like, hey, at 15 or he's entering high school, he's got a chance to be really good at this. I played multiple sports my entire life, all the way to 10th grade in high school, and then realized like, ah, pretty good at baseball. And my dad was mad at me. He was a football coach and, you know, a lot of people were disappointed that I was a better athlete in my school. But I think that set me up to be, you know, where I am today athletically. So, you know, I think that's, it's happening. Guys are specializing in sports way earlier and I'm going to do our best and I encourage our team to go play something else. I make our practices optional in the fall when it's other sports season and, you know, find someone else who will do that, who can put value in everything. And sometimes I want all my players at practice, but four of them have basketball or football. But that's going to make us better on the baseball field. I Truly believe that.
- [49:00]
A
Do your boys swing, Maroochy?
- [49:03]
B
Yeah, they all. They all swing. Marushi.
- [49:05]
A
I love it.
- [49:06]
B
I know. And my little man, if they don't, he'll tell them to, you know.
- [49:10]
A
Hey, I love that.
- [49:11]
B
He's a homer. For sure. He's a homer. That's great.
- [49:14]
A
So I brought up earlier that we are at the. We are at the hitter's house. Like, talk about this place, because I got to see it. I mean, it's insane. Like, talk. Talk a little bit about this place.
- [49:29]
B
So obviously, headquarters in Baton Rouge, you have the baseball performance lab. All the wood bats are made there. And, you know, there's not a lot of pro baseball in Baton Rouge. We had this, you know, this building here, Fox factory. You know, our company that owns us had a facility, and Kurt had a vision and, you know, through our team and everyone of creating a facility here. So, you know, left field of talking sticks right behind me. You know, can almost hit a driver there. But is how do we create a space for, you know, in a baseball heavy, you know, area.
- [50:03]
A
Sure.
- [50:04]
B
With, you know, ton of people around. And how do you create a space that's not only, you know, retail oriented, but maybe for the professional guys? And then, you know, bat testing lab. So this facility here has a full retail space right underneath us. We're sitting in, like, a players lounge area that our guys in the off season or during the season can come. There's a golf simulator. They can, you know, there's an office right here. They can work. There's a full kitchen. And then behind those glasses is called the stable. It's a workout facility. Bregman, Mookie Betts is down there. There's a ton of guys who have, you know, Scottsdale's home to a lot of guys, so it gives them a place here. And then to the left is the performance lab, which is just an extension of an arm that we have in Baton Rouge that a guy can get fully fitted for a wood bat. Someone get fitted for aluminum bat. That kind of touches all. All points. And there's two cages where, you know, someone who just loves baseball and wants to buy a new bat can come test them out here and then, you know, go catch a spring training game. So this facility is awesome. Just opened. This will be our first spring training with it. We've already had, you know, Caglion was here a couple days ago. Merrill, you know, like I said, Bregman's down there. So it's. It's an awesome place and I think gives the players Some, you know, some, some space away from their own facility. Not that they don't spend a ton of time at their, their, their actual team, but you know, one place where they all have in common that they're baseball players. And it also lets maybe someone in the public. You never know who you might see here, right? It's kind of cool. And those guys work out.
- [51:34]
A
And I mean for any listener or somebody watching this who you've ever gotten fitted for golf clubs, like you guys have taken almost that approach, but for the pros and been like, how do we, because I've had plenty of guys do this with you guys, like, how do we like personally fit them for this bat? And I've had switch hitters go in there where it's like, oh, from the right side you need to swing this bat. From the left side, actually you need to swing this bat.
- [52:01]
B
You know, it's crazy, it's awesome. And we can, you know, it's not only just wood bats, you know, we can with now aluminum bats. And you know, there's kids as young as 10 or younger that are, you know, figuring out what size to be in obviously the, you know, the assessment, you know, their body's a lot more mature when they're professional player. But I think, you know, that gives them a way or gives a baseball player a way to, to feel some confidence of, you know, and I tell guys all the time it's not always, hey, Austin Riley, you should swing this bat. But it's, it's, hey, your body moves really well with this bat. If we change something, does it alter your swing? Is your, you know, does the bat path change? Does your bat speed go up? And that, that's something that I think sets us apart, you know, Maruchi Invictus on the wood bat side that we can take it all the way down to. You know, Lindor swings one right handed and one left handed, right? So I think it's, it's neat and we can do that here in this facility.
- [52:57]
A
It's also nice from a mental standpoint too. Just being told like, this is the bat that like your swing, you can, you know, put off the optimal swing using this. Because if, think about that, if you actually heard the opposite, it's like, oh, well, maybe I'm not going to have as much confidence. This is the bat that I have in my hands, right? I'd want to know that. Yeah, that's for damn sure.
- [53:16]
B
I think it's, it's a pure, just comfort, right, of like, hey, now I have a Little bit of numbers to back this up. Not only does it feel good, but my body looks like it's moving the correct way. And then ultimately too, like it's still a feel sport. And if that, if that you think you're going to get a hit when you walk up because you got fitted with it, then a better chance.
- [53:35]
A
Yeah. So the, the impression that I got when I first walked in here was like, this is the future. No, it's you guys, you guys did something right.
- [53:45]
B
No, it's awesome. And I feel like each time I've been here, you know, multiple times now, and each time I walk in, I, you know, I'm like, wow, this is buildings. Incredible. You know, it's, it's awesome. I think there's something for every age baseball player also, if you just want to buy a pair of batting gloves or try bat out, you can do that. Or if you're, like I said, if you're Noah Miller and you want to work out and it gives you a space to do it, or if you want to see how your body moves with trying a different bat, you can do all those things here in this facility. And, and there's not a better place in the country, in my opinion, to have it. I love it. It's pretty awesome.
- [54:18]
A
So as we wrap up here, I have three rapid fire questions that I want to just lay on you.
- [54:22]
B
All right?
- [54:23]
A
And I'm going to see if I can remember all of them. So number one, best player you ever scouted.
- [54:30]
B
Best player ever scouted. Bregman's by far the best player I feel like I ever scouted that I was that convicted to, you know, there's a couple, I'm still in a couple group chats with scouts. I put probably the highest number on Kyle Tucker that anybody ever did. So I take those two. I was just enamored by Kyle Tucker every time I got a chance to watch him and wind up taking him, you know, so it was an awesome experience and wasn't in my area, but I'd pretty. If you just told me right away, I'd say Kyle Tucker.
- [55:04]
A
Okay, what position your son?
- [55:08]
B
He's really tall, he likes to pitch, he plays short, he plays first. If you ask him, I think last year he felt like he was like, I want to play first. Now he wants to be a shortstop. So I don't know if, I don't know if he's quite ready for it, but he likes to play.
- [55:23]
A
Okay. Would you rather watch him striking out the last guy in the World Series or Hitting the game winning homer.
- [55:35]
B
Well, I was a pitcher, so I'm naturally connected more to the mound. But I've learned that, like, I feel like deep down, all pitchers really wanted to be hitters. So I'd rather watch him. I'd rather watch him hit.
- [55:45]
A
I love that.
- [55:46]
B
It's a cool experience and I think he's good with both, but I'd rather watch him hit a homer, I think.
- [55:54]
A
Okay. Have you ever tried to strike him out?
- [55:57]
B
We play this game in the backyard. He's. He's all in the blitz ball. Right. Like we watch blitz ball. And like, even before I left the other day, he wanted me to try to strike him out with a blitz ball. So I'll get in the cage every now and then and throw firm to him and try to strike him out and he's. He gets a kick out of it.
- [56:13]
A
I love it. All right, last question. Who's winning the World Series this year?
- [56:16]
B
Dodgers.
- [56:17]
A
Don't do it. Don't do it.
- [56:20]
B
The Mets are nasty, man. Like, the Mets are nasty. I'll take those guys. I think, you know, there's. There's so many good players, man. There's so many good teams, but Dodgers are deep.
- [56:30]
A
I don't think we can even make it. I've been big on saying this. It's probably a cop out, but you don't know until the All Star break, really. The trade deadline.
- [56:39]
B
Sure.
- [56:40]
A
Because the teams and what they're going to look like at the trade deadline versus, you know, at the beginning of the season is vastly different. We're going to have injuries. You know, what a team's going to look like is going to be different, you know, in September than it is right now. So. I don't know, man.
- [56:54]
B
Yeah, I mean, Mets are good, you know, Orioles made some moves. They're good, you know, former guys there.
- [57:00]
A
Yeah, there's a lot of good teams out there.
- [57:01]
B
Ton of good teams. And, you know, the one thing that I think, you know, brings it in perspective. We talked about perspective earlier. There's just so many good players, you know, not only here, but all the way down. And I think that's. That's what's neat to see in the game of baseball that is just, you know, you got to really have an appreciation and know how good the players are. And it's easy to say, like, oh, this team stinks, or they're not, but, like, there's really good players on every single team. But Dodgers are deep, Mets are deep, O's are deep. So, I mean, it's should be fun. Yeah, it should be fun.
- [57:33]
A
We'll see.
- [57:33]
B
No.
- [57:34]
A
All right, bro, I appreciate you.
- [57:35]
B
No, thank you so much.
- [57:36]
A
Dude, this is awesome, Sam.