B (3:15)

Money continues what does leadership really look like? On the Power of Advice, a new podcast series from Capital Group, you'll hear from athletes on entrepreneurs and executives who've led on the field, in the boardroom, and in their communities. It's not about titles, it's about impact. Discover what drives them and the advice they carry forward. Subscribe and start listening. Today, published by Capital Client Group, Inc.

A (3:40)

It's Valentine's Day, and there's nothing more romantic than talking about money with your significant other. Well, maybe not. But it is important because the evidence is clear that financial acrimony can lead to marital disharmony. For example, a study entitled Examining the Relationship Between Financial Issues and Divorce found that financial disagreements are stronger predictors of divorce relative to other common marital disagreements. Soon after my wife and I got married 26 years ago, we decided to make sure we were on the same financial page by writing what we called our financial manifesto, which we then published as an article on Full dot com. Here to talk about what was in it and how much we actually stuck to it is my wife, Dr. Elizabeth Brokham, who is a licensed professional counselor, a professor of clinical mental health counseling, and the mother of four wonderful kids. Welcome to Motley Fool Money.

C (4:31)

Elizabeth thank you so much, Robert. It's nice to be here. It's kind of like take your wife to work day.

A (4:36)

I guess it is. All right, so let's set the stage. It was the year 2000. We had been married for less than a year at that point, and we both worked at the Motley Fool. We decided to write our manifesto and then we turned it into an article, even though neither of us were actually official writers for the Motley fool at the time. What do you remember about how we came up with the idea and how we wrote it?

C (4:57)

Well, what I remember is that we Weren't totally aligned with our financial outlook. That had been less of an issue when we were dating, but it seemed like definitely something we should deal with as a married couple. For example, I was used to really living on the edge in terms of finances, so I was cool if I had, you know, enough money to live off Kraft macaroni and cheese for the rest of my paycheck. And you were, you. You were very interested in financial stability and creating a safety net and things like that. Not so interested in living on the edge. So at the time, we were working there at the Motley fool, which is just great thriving place of young people who are all interested in and talking about money. And I think through those conversations, we realized that we really needed to get on the same page.

A (5:43)

When we were dating, we were poor elementary school teachers, so money wasn't much of an issue because we frankly just didn't have very much money. Then we got married, eventually realized that there could be some problem areas, maybe being a little less comfortable with how far a bank account could go before we panicked. So once we combined our finances, we figured it was time to get more aligned and formalize our financial manifesto. I don't remember how we got the fool to publish it, but it did end up taking on somewhat of a life of his own. It ended up being among the most popular articles for the year 2000, which then led to an online webinar and then a book that we contributed to, which I think just goes to show that many couples recognize that some sort of written financial plan is probably a good idea. All right, so let's move on to the manifesto itself. It had five components, each of which had, I guess you would call it a title and a subtitle. And we'll take turns taking the lead in describing each. The first one being what's more important, a house or a hamburger. Or in other words, prioritize and post.

C (6:41)

So this one was our way of saying, keep your eyes on the long term prize. A hamburger today may not be a big deal, but all those small decisions add up over time and could mean that you're delaying something that's arguably much more important to you. Like buying a house, for example. I'm going to give us a grade, I would say, on that one. I would give us an A. I also want to acknowledge fortunate timing. So we were able to buy a house in 2000, and we bought a fixer upper that year, right when the housing market was about to boom. But I would say, beyond even that lucky purchase, it's become a way of life, to keep our goals kind of front and center. So I would say that my biggest suggestion for other people is to make sure that you're checking in periodically and making sure your priorities are still aligned with one another. And then also just for me, I'm a visual person. So making sure that I have a picture somewhere, whether it's my screensaver or having a vision board of something that I'm aiming for, is really important for me.

A (7:40)

Nowadays, people talk about the latte factor, which is about how foregoing a daily cup of fancy coffee and instead investing it can lead to tens of thousand dollars over the long term. But I guess we were kind of ahead of the curve because we were putting it in context of hamburgers, but that's kind of what we were getting at here. As for the grades, I'd give us a B plus. I would say the B plus for me because I still make a lot of small purchases that I probably shouldn't. But in our manifesto, we did list out our goals, which were a house, starting a family, college, retirement, et cetera. And we're on track to meet those. So I think that's good news. Another part of the manifesto that I think helped is that we said we'd do an equivalency calculation, figuring out how many hours we had to work to make a purchase. And I think that helps keep spending in context. And then finally, I like the visual part a lot. We actually had the manifesto posted on the fridge for a while, and I had an abridged version in my wallet, so I had to see it every time that I was inclined to spend some money. All right, let's move on to the second component of our manifesto, which was follow the breadcrumbs. In other words, track inflow and outflow. And this just comes down to having a system for seeing where your money's going. And we've been talking about this on the show with the 2026 Financial Planning Challenge, including last week's episode. So check that out if you haven't. I'd give us a B on this one, but sometimes maybe a C because we've kind of ebbed and flowed with this. We start out with spreadsheets, then went to Quicken, then to Mint, then to Empower, and now we're back to Quicken. So we're sometimes better at staying on top of this than others, but every time we dig into our spending, I think it's pretty eye opening. And another component of our manifesto was that we check into this weekly I personally haven't been able to stick to this of late, so that's room for improvement on my part.

C (9:25)

And I agree with you between that B and C, maybe a B minus for myself. I did the work to set up the Quicken. I keep up with all our bills, of course, but I really don't do an analysis of what we're spending that often. And then as we've gotten older and more established, we've gotten more things to track, so it's gotten more complicated. I recently decided to try and track one big financial area a month and do kind of an audit. So last month, for example, I did an evaluation of our credit card benefits and I made these little sleeves that we could put our credit cards in that tell things like, you know, which one is going to save you more on groceries or gas, for example. And then my latest one was tackling new car insurance quotes. So I think that's the way that I'm going to try to improve my B minus to a higher grade.

A (10:09)

Yeah, and having three young drivers on our auto insurance. My goodness gracious, what a bill that has been. All right, let's move on to the third component. Don't eat your money. In other words, put cash in context.

C (10:22)

I think this one's pretty self explanatory. We were really cognizant that a lot of money can go out the door if we're eating out all the time. I don't even know how to grade myself on this one. I would give us a better grade if either of us love to cook. Luckily, we have pretty simple taste beyond delighting and simple things. We do things like use coupons. We shop at Aldi with a big shout out to the Aldi I love shame community on Facebook, which I love, and buying in bulk at Costco. Those are things that we do as a matter of routine. So pretty standard stuff.

A (10:52)

Dining out has usually been the discretionary category that has sometimes gotten away from us. As I've mentioned in a previous episode, once you've analyzed your spending, you'll find that you just have a few categories that you need to keep a better eye on. And I think we were trying to acknowledge that very early on with this component of our manifesto that eating out is the thing that we probably have to just stay on top of more. All right, let's move on to component number four of our manifesto, the wacky khaki. In other words, find ways to save money. And this name came from my days as a financial advisor back in the 90s and the CEO of a sportswear company came to talk to us basically to get us to sell his stock to our clients. And he had a pair of khaki pants. He said, we make these pants for around $10. We sell them to Walmart, Walmart sells them for 15. We sell the same pants to JC Penney's, they sell for $25. We make the same pants, sell it to Macy's, they sell for $40. And the point being, there are lots of ways to spend less money that don't necessarily result in much of a drop in quality of the goods or services that you're buying. So the importance of comparison shopping, looking for deals, you can find lots of ways to save money that don't necessarily result in lower quality product and being comfortable with used items by shopping on Craigslist, Facebook Marketplace, or maybe through estate sales, too.

C (12:14)

Yeah, looking for deals has definitely gotten easier than it was in 2000. You know, there are things like Rakuten, there's grocery store digital coupons, just being able to Google discount codes. And those are things that I definitely do as a matter of course. I give us an A on that category, especially because I think that we often try to buy used. You know, if you look around our house, we call it the house that Facebook Marketplace built because of all the decor coming from other people's things that they're getting rid of. And the exception for me would be holiday gift giving. I would say that if you call something a gift, I'm much less inclined to seek out a bargain. And that would be an area that I'd love to track a little bit better.

A (12:52)

And that's part of what makes you such a great mom, of course. All right, let's move on to our fifth component, the State of the Union. And we had in quotes by fellow Bro Camps. And the point here is to monitor progress.

C (13:03)

Yeah, we were talking about finding a way to commit to some kind of regular, touching, base opportunity related to our finances. So in the original manifesto, we said we meet every Thursday, but this morphed into what we call the Sunday Summit, which is kind of like a life planning session for the week. And finances often are a part of that. So we talk about the schedule and who has to do what. And this became really important, especially as we had kids who were doing zillions of activities throughout the week. This is probably Sunday Summit is probably my favorite thing that we've done, not only because I like you, Robert, and I like spending time with you, but also because I think that so many problems can be avoided if you identify the pain points early and take some steps to deal with them. And then I think that being flexible, learning to be flexible when life gets in the way so that we're not able to do it, or when we're coming at an issue from different vantage points and we need to kind of diffuse rather than meet in person, we've developed ways of dealing with that too. So writing each other an email to introduce the topic, for example, is one way we've dealt with that. And then consulting neutral parties to get help with roadblocks, so seeking out the advice of others instead of directly having a conversation about it at that point, I think those are good suggestions that may help other people.

A (14:18)

Yeah, one of those neutral parties was a fee only financial planner, which may surprise people given that I'm a certified financial planner myself. But I do think it's important for even financial professionals as well as dedicated do it yourselfers, like many of the Motley Fool Money podcast listeners, are to check in with a fee only financial planner every few years just to get that objective professional point of view. And I think it can also help when partners don't agree on financial priorities as long as both are willing to listen to the professional with an open mind. All right, so those were the five components of our financial manifesto. But in our article we also highlighted some of the problems we encountered when creating it. So looking back 26 years later, which one sticks out to you the most?

C (15:00)

It's really interesting to look at that list because I think by this point we've really grown up together. We've grown into our partnership for sure. So it doesn't feel the same anymore as when we were newly out of our family of origins homes and we were sort of reacting out of old money scripts. We've mellowed out a bit. We've developed a trust over time in each other's approach and we really do a nice job of balancing each other out. But the one that I think still feels relevant is the one about timing. So approaching conversations at the right time. It's definitely important to know your partner well enough to know when a conversation is going to flop like a lead balloon and when sometimes waiting just a little bit is going to lead to a more productive talk.

A (15:40)

Right. And I think we've developed a good sense of that and when, as you mentioned previously. You know what, maybe I'll make this an email first to introduce the topic and then see how it goes from there. The one problem that we highlighted in the article that I think is Interesting. Now, looking back on it, was the initial disagreement about the manifesto itself. Right. So I wanted this extensive document that was several pages long and it was more like a constitution. Right. Dealt with every little thing about our finances, which I laugh about now because soon after we did this, we had kids, and all that nitty gritty would have gone out the window. So you wisely convinced me that the manifesto should be more about, shall we say, like, guiding principles than like, a company's audited financials. So let's close here with some parting final advice. Is there anything we didn't discuss but you think is important for couples to consider when coming up with their own plan for managing their money?

C (16:35)

I thought about this. I came up with three things. One is that I would definitely suggest to define winning as when you accomplish a financial goal together, not as when you get your personal way. And I've noticed this even on our conversation today, that when we talk, we're really careful to own our own part in problems or in situations that we've created financially, and not really quick to blame the other person. That's something that in my work as a counselor, I have seen definitely that pointing fingers can be really destructive. Last, I'll say that it helps to be married to a retirement expert, but since there's only one of you to marry. Robert, I'm really glad that people get to hear your advice on your show and in your articles.

A (17:14)

Well, that is very kind of you. I'll add to something that you hinted at earlier in that I think doing the manifesto early in our marriage was important because it set the ground rules early and we've mostly stuck to it, which has led to a lot of trust so that, you know, 26 years later, we don't have to be quite so vigilant about things and also point out that we've never been perfect with our money, and there were times that we didn't do everything that we laid out in our agreement, and I think that's to be expected. So any couples out there who spend some time creating their own agreement, but then something goes awry or you or your partner don't stick to the agreement 100% of the time, that's fine. It's never going to be perfect. But the process of creating your own manifesto and then occasionally revisiting it will do all kinds of good things, get you talking about money, figuring out what you agree on, identifying potential problems, and then hopefully talking through solutions and compromises and ideally, setting your family up for a better financial future. Well, Elizabeth, this was fun. Thanks for joining me and Happy Valentine's Day.

C (18:16)

Anything for my favorite fool. Thank you. Happy Valentine's Day and thank you so much to all your listeners.

B (18:21)

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A (19:18)

It'S time to get it done, fools. And last week my colleague Stephanie Marini joined me to discuss how you can calculate and automate the amounts you need to pay off your debts, build a safety net and save enough to accomplish your financial goals. And you just heard me and my wife discuss how we've managed money as a couple. Now I'd love to hear from you. What have you done to make sure your finances are on track? And how have you and your partner found money? Harmony? Send your tips, tricks and recommendations to podcastsool.com and I'll share a few in the next episode. Again, that's podcastsool.com Also, in case you wanted to read the article my wife and I wrote way back when it's still on the web, just do an online search for it. And if you're looking for a more fun article about couples and money that has my byline but had plenty of ideas from other fools, including my wife, do a search for the Fooly Wed game, which is a list of questions you and your spouse can answer to see how much you're aligned on money. And that, my friends, is the show. Thanks so much for listening. Thanks to Bart Shannon, as always the engineer for this episode. And as always, people on the program may have interest in the stocks they talk about and the Motley fool may have formal recommendations for or against, so don't buy or sell stocks based solely on what you hear. All personal finance content follows Motley fool editorial standards and is not approved by advertisers. Advertisements are sponsored content and are provided for informational purposes only. To see our full advertising disclosure, please check out our Show Notes. I'm Robert Brokamp. Full on, everybody.