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- [00:00]
Alicia Alfieri
Foreign.
- [00:05]
Tim Byers
What makes for a resilient brand? You're listening to Motley Fool Money.
- [00:21]
Rick Benares
Welcome, fools.
- [00:22]
Tim Byers
I'm your host, Tim Byers, and with me are two of my rule breakers teammates, Alicia Alfieri and Rick Gunares. Thanks for being here, fools. We're recording on Thursday, February 12th. Since you may be listening to this on the President's Day, how quite a week of earnings reports, especially for rule breakers companies. And we're going to get into a couple of them a bit later. But we need to talk about the fifth trait of a rule breaker, and that is strong consumer appeal. What does it mean to have strong consumer appeal? And can it help to sustain business and stock performance in volatile markets like the one we're in right now? I want to talk about this, fools. And I pulled the interbrand data. This is from the 2025 Interbrand survey. The world's most valuable brand are some big names and some big numbers on here. So I'm just going to give you top three. Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, no surprises there. But the Apple brand worth just about 471 billion, that was actually down 4% year over year. Microsoft, 388.5 billion. That was up 10% year over year. And Amazon at 319.9 billion. And that was up 7% year over year. So let me ask you both, and I've got more data on this, but I want to start you guys off. And Alicia, I'll start with you. When you think about the fifth trait of a rule breaker, strong consumer appeal, what do you think about in terms of maybe let's call it a resilient consumer brand. What defines it for you?
- [01:49]
Alicia Alfieri
Yeah, well, I think a resilient consumer brand is one that has a clear focus and has been able to build some kind of connection with the consumers through their experiences with the company's products or services. Makes me think of, you know, we used to think of strong brands, a strong consumer appeal with companies that make products, right, like McDonald's. So it has fast, consistent food experience. And your emotional connection with that brand can go back to when you got Happy Meals with your grandma on the weekends.
- [02:25]
Tim Byers
Fair enough. I mean, I have a different McDonald's experience, Rick. But, but let's, but let's, let's, let's not talk about that. We don't, we don't need to bring up past trauma. But for two, let's talk about resilient consumer brands. I'll give you another that I'm surprised that Alicia didn't bring it up. But brands where people are actually proud to display the brand. So like Chewy and the boxes that they deliver to porches everywhere across the United States. And I see millions of people put pictures on the interwebs of their dog or cat like absolutely going nuts inside the empty box. Like not only do they love the stuff that's inside, but then they like to get into the boxes and go wild.
- [03:17]
Rick Benares
Yeah, that's a great example of a brand that gets free advertising just by their products are out in the wild. And you see it, you see a lot like people with the Mac stickers. I mean you probably anyone that's gone through a lot of Apple products, you get these little stickers and you're like, what do I do with them? Well, I'll put them on my MacBook, I'll put them in my car and it's just free advertising. And I think that's speaking specifically to Apple. I think that's the kind of a trait where not only is it that people are proud about it, they're willing to pay more for a product even when there's a cheaper near substitute available. Apple's a perfect example. Like a Viking Cruises where hey, you're paying a lot for a river cruise. You can get a lot cheaper on the mainstream larger mega boats. They're able to do this. And just to backtrack to McDonald's. Tim, if you didn't get a prize in your Happy Meal, just go to the counter. They will give it to you. It does not have to be a lifelong.
- [04:07]
Tim Byers
I told you we didn't have to bring up my childhood. Childhood.
- [04:11]
Rick Benares
You got three Chicken McNuggets instead of four. I get it. They miscount sometimes. We're human.
- [04:15]
Tim Byers
I know.
- [04:16]
Rick Benares
Try again.
- [04:17]
Tim Byers
We can. Let's talk about some others here. It is very interesting to see this is again driving from the Interbrand survey. I wonder, in the era of AI, can AI companies generate resilient brands here? And I mean Interbrand is telling me that Nvidia recorded a staggering 116% surge in brand value that is the biggest in the rankings 25 year history. So I wonder, are there certain types of companies that lend themselves to strong consumer appeal? But when you're looking at rule breakers, maybe there's certain types of companies like you know what, this fifth straight, we're never going to be able to check it off because it's like a business to business or company or something like that. Rick, what do you, how do you think about that?
- [05:07]
Rick Benares
Yeah, I think the case of Nvidia again. So just maybe Just a couple years ago. The reason why I think it's gotten so it's not just because it's a mega cap right now with this monster valuation right now, but a couple of years ago, unless you were like a die hard video gamer, you didn't know Nvidia. And again, for most people, they still don't see Nvidia. It's not a consumer facing product that you see in your face sometimes it's in your computer if you have a very high processing system. But what really has exploded is investors are excited about Nvidia because it is power is the undisputed AI chip leader in this whole AI revolution. So they're making growing at a ridiculous pace for a company its size and that is getting people excited about the brand and the company. Even though most people have probably never bought an Nvidia product knowingly.
- [05:52]
Tim Byers
Yeah, Alicia, how about for you, like when you think about strong consumer appeal, what is it that comes to your mind? Like do you think that there's certain sectors that just are never going to have it or do you look at it in every rule breaker you're evaluating for the service?
- [06:08]
Alicia Alfieri
I try to take a look at it for, for every rule breaker. I mean there, there are some industries that are more tricky than others, but I think that you can have a strong brand within your specific industry and customer group. As, as Rick said, you know, unless you were a die hard gamer, you might not have known about Nvidia. But within die hard gamers that was strong brand already. And I think that that speaks to how different companies can have different brand power.
- [06:37]
Tim Byers
Yeah, I mean it's, it's a very interesting thing. I will say that in Rule breakers when we are looking at strong consumer appeal, we like to look at and the definition that David gave to us is is the brand truly valued by its buyer base? And we have a couple companies that are upcoming here in our next segment where we need to ask that question, fools. Up next, we're going to evaluate a couple of earnings reports that were, I don't know, maybe these brands are under in a little bit of, a little bit of worry. You're listening to Motley Fool Money. Stay with us.
- [07:11]
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- [08:11]
Tim Byers
All right, welcome back. You're listening to Motley Fool Money. Let's talk about a couple of earnings reports and these were, I'm going to say, not great. And Rick, I'm going to start with one that you have followed for a really long time and that is Zillow. Zillow had, well, I don't know. You know what, let me kick it to you here. What did you think about the earnings report on on Tuesday the 10th? Because it certainly didn't seem like it was one that the market maybe, I don't know, cheered a little bit. But what do you think here?
- [08:48]
Rick Benares
Yeah, Zillow is what I mean. The stock initially started to move higher and then it just gave up. But I think specifically the Zillow the report was, it's hard to find a lot of fault in the actual report. Revenue is up 16% and it's real on the real estate, it's bread and butter. Residential real estate up about 8%. Most of the growth that picked it up to double digits was strong growth for the rentals on their mortgage financing business. So these smaller parts of the business, even though rentals now almost a quarter of the revenue, so it's smaller business that's starting to pick up. But again to see any kind of real estate related company grow at a double digit pace, which they did and put out reported profitability, something it doesn't always do and on an adjusted basis obviously much better. So I think Zillow had a decent report. I just think sometimes it's not what you report, it's when you report. And Zillow just had that misfortune of reporting on a day when there was just vestors were willing to Sell on any whiff of bad news. And also the fact that this real estate recovery that we keep saying is going to happen this year, this is going to be our year. We're going to, we've been saying this for Zillow and the other real estate plays for years, but again, they're still the leader. You're talking about brand. It's hard to find. Zillow is like the default setting when you're looking for a real estate play. When you're trying to looking for a home or looking to sell your home and see what your neighbor's houses are selling for. It is clear, it's transparent. There are, there's several portals out there, including one owned by the actual real estate association. But Zillow is still the default. So I think it's a great brand and I think the report to me, and I don't want to say buying opportunity because that always seems like a cop out, as if, like I'll win no matter what, but I think it was an overreaction on Zillow's part. I think the brand is still strong and I think the business, once people start selling their homes again and people start buying pre owned homes again, is going to do pretty well.
- [10:33]
Tim Byers
I mean, Alicia, there are some good numbers here. Rick is not wrong. I mean, total revenue growth up 16%, that was for the full year. And the broader residential industry apparently only grew 2%. I'm sorry, 3%. This is from AlphaSense and AlphaSense data is in the Zillow earnings release. The for Sale revenue grew 11% and rentals revenue, this is relatively new for Zillow. It was up 39% year over year to 630 million. That is extraordinary, especially since the overall industry grew about 14%. So this does seem to be a brand that despite some of its recent challenges and some of the challenges in the real estate industry, people still think, I mean, I, I think Rick might have it right here. Like, when you think about selling your home, Zillow probably occupies a place in your mind as one of those places you're going to go to first.
- [11:30]
Alicia Alfieri
Yeah, I agree. So Zillow is ranked as the most trusted in the real estate category. So it has the top rated app and website for real estate in the US and in 2025, there are roughly 9.6 billion billion visits to Zillow's apps and websites. And 80% of the traffic to those apps and websites was direct. So that means that people didn't go and research first to figure out where.
- [11:56]
Tim Byers
They just went straight to Zillow.
- [11:58]
Alicia Alfieri
It went straight to Zillow, and I think that's pretty powerful, you know, and while the real estate market isn't the best right now, you know, we can see the impact of the brand on Zillow's results. You already talked about the fact that their revenue outpaced the overall market. That's pretty impressive. And considering that it's a tricky market, Zillow also reported 23 million in net income for the full year. So that represents something like 0.89% margin. So that doesn't sound like a lot, but it's an improvement over last year's 112 million loss. And so I think the ability to outpace the industry's growth and turn a profit in a less than ideal real estate market says a lot about Zillow as a brand and what it might be able to do when the housing market does finally turn around.
- [12:50]
Tim Byers
All right, give me a prediction here. And Rick, I'll start with you. So given the strength of the brand and where it is now as the housing market recovers, is this one an outperformer? Yes. Yes or no? You pegged this to beat the market as the housing market recovers?
- [13:05]
Rick Benares
Yes, yes. Do you just want to. Yes, I can elaborate. I can elaborate for eight hours, but I'll just say, yes, we're going to go.
- [13:11]
Tim Byers
We got two stocks to do here. Yes, it's good.
- [13:13]
Rick Benares
So I'll say yes. Yes. And.
- [13:15]
Tim Byers
All right. Yes. And Alicia.
- [13:17]
Alicia Alfieri
Yes, I agree with Rick.
- [13:19]
Tim Byers
All right, let's move on to Unity software ticker. You, incidentally, these are two companies that both have. Zillow has two tickers, but you have Ticker Z for Zillow, their primary ticker. And Unity is ticker. Just you. David used to like those. He used to thought that was indicative of a company that was so strong they could have a single, you know, a single letter as their ticker. But I would say that Unity, Alicia, did not make people very happy when they reported on Wednesday of last week. The headline numbers did show a beat, but it just doesn't. There's something not quite right here. And incidentally, Unity has outperformed the market over the last year by about 34%. But what went wrong here?
- [14:09]
Alicia Alfieri
Yeah, well, so Unity's brand power is still there. Revenues increased 2% in 2025, and that's partially because of their new AI powered ad tool. Users were also renewing their contract, and there were price increases as well. So that's potentially a good sign when Consumers like your new tool, they continue to use your platform or your services and they're willing to pay a higher price. But here's where it kind of gets complicated. When we look deeper at revenues across geographies, we can see that revenues only increased for China and the Asia Pacific region. Revenues actually fell for the US and other part of the Americas as well as Europe, the Middle east and Africa. So we've got uneven growth. At the same time, China is a big market for video games. So it's promising that there's growth here. There's also a question of if this brand is still strong compared to other options out there. Right. There are other competition in the form of Epic's Unreal Engine, which has the success of Epic Games own portfolio like Fortnite associated with it. And then I think with Unity, there's also another issue with how Wall street thinks about Unity and its brand, and that's AI for Unity. The threat of AI and even Google's genie which can make virtual worlds is overblown right now. Remember, Unity can help developers create a whole new game and monetize it as well as AI can't do that yet. But it gives us another thing to really keep in mind. Brands and companies in general can be impacted by outside forces beyond their control. And it can change the perception of a company, at least for now in the minds of Wall Street.
- [15:52]
Tim Byers
Yeah, I mean Rick, I look at this company and it does play an important role in. I mean it's one of the two big gaming engines here. Right. Management does say that Unity 6, which is the most engine seeing the fastest adoption rate of any version in company history. I mean that sounds good. It does seem as though this is definitely trending towards more usage. And I would also say, I mean as you get more AI, let's call it AI Native gaming, this seems like a perfectly good opportunity for Unity. But where do you land here? The guidance came in at only 480 to 490 million for Q1 of 2026. And that apparently was just a little too below the $494 million consensus. I mean, is this just a perception problem or is it a real problem?
- [16:57]
Rick Benares
They said a lot of nice words. They said the whole vector unity 6 create side, it's all growing. Great.
- [17:04]
Tim Byers
Sounds like that's a wonderful word salad you've put out in front of me there.
- [17:08]
Rick Benares
Yes, but when they say that and then they say, hey, our guidance is going to come in a little low in the new quarter, to me that's a reset. It is something. And again, in the quarter, I mean, Alicia, it was 2% for the year, it was 10% for the quarter, but revenue had declined 25% the year before. So it's still far below what it was even two years ago. I do like the fact that it's turning around. But Unity, and again, I don't want to say it's a red flag, because I root for any company that fosters and nurtures of cottage industry, which is what they have done, create this, this whole platform that people are building games on. But to me, I just keep thinking of 2023, when they rolled out this fee and I don't even remember this. And when they had this runtime fee, and then developers are. They'd be charging, I think, 20 cents for everyone that downloads pro downloads one of their games. And that was a substantial cost for developers, especially like on platforms where they have access to a lot of different games. And they revolted. And Unity said, oh, oops, sorry. And so 2024 came around. It was supposed to come out. They retreated on that. They took that back. And to me, that was a sign of weakness. If Netflix said, hey, we're going to increase our prices and people scream and they say, oh, sorry, we're going to quickster this. We're going to go back like they did in 2011, 2012, that would be a problem to me. That just always left a sour taste in my mouth. A company that would say, I love that they're listening to their developers and their customers, but I would have preferred if Unity would have been a little more saying, hey, we're going to go through with this because this is our vision and see it for a company.
- [18:34]
Tim Byers
All right, same question. Let's make a prediction here. So it sounds like the Unity brand value is maybe a little less sturdy compared to Zillow. So, Alicia, I'll start with you here. Make a prediction. As this Unity 6 engine starts gaining more steam, gaining more traction, do you bet on Unity to outperform or not? Yes or no?
- [18:59]
Alicia Alfieri
I'm not sure for context. Yeah, I mean, I think that Unity's brand, it feels less strong than Zillow's here. So I'm going to go not sure to trending. No.
- [19:13]
Tim Byers
Okay. I'm going to take it as no. I'm a pin you down here. So, Rick, what do you got? Yes or no here?
- [19:19]
Rick Benares
I said a few negative things, but I'm going to say yes, I'm going to end this positively. Because again, to me, while the stock has been up and that includes, I mean, it took a big hit on Wednesday as we're recording this on Thursday. It's also trading lower. So it's not recovering. But I think the fact that its business is improving and sure, again, it reported at a terrible time. So the stock took a really big hit on Wednesday and the follow through, the sell through continued on Thursday. But I do think that it's going to be able to recover. So I'm willing to say that it can beat the market just as it has over the past year. I think it can get back on track.
- [19:52]
Tim Byers
Okay, up next, preview for Tuesday's earnings. Emily Flippen's going to be back with some more earnings coverage. You're listening to Motley Fool Money. Keep it right here.
- [20:02]
Narrator/Advertiser
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- [20:23]
Tim Byers
All right, Fools, for Tuesday's show, we're still in development here, but we're going to have a lot more earnings coverage. Emily maybe, maybe she'll be talking about Toast, which is going to be we're recording on the afternoon of the 12th, so within a few hours we're going to have some toast earnings. So maybe she'll be back with that. But please stay tuned. We're going to have a lot more earnings coverage on Motley Fool Money over the next days here as we wrap up this earnings season. Rick, Alicia, thanks for being here, Fools. As always, people on the program may have interest in the stocks they talk about and the Motley fool may have formal recommendations for or against. So don't buy or sell stocks based solely on what you hear. All personal finance content follows Motley fool editorial standards and is not approved by advertisers. Advertisements are sponsored content and provided for informational purposes only. To see our full advertising disclosure, please check out our show notes. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks to Alicia Alfieri and Rick Benares for their special insights today. Thanks to our producer, Ana Chakpalou and our excellent engineer, Dan Boyd. I'm your host, Tim Byers. We will see you again next time, Fools. Thanks so much for being here and for tuning in to Mountain Fool Money. Mulan, everyone.