Big Banks Cash In, IBM Crashes Out

Summary

Motley Fool Hidden Gems Investing

Episode: Big Banks Cash In, IBM Crashes Out
Date: July 14, 2026
Host: Tyler Crowe
Analysts: Lou Whiteman, Matt Frankel

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Episode Overview

This episode explores two headline developments for investors:

1. IBM’s historic single-day stock drop following a disappointing preliminary quarterly report.
2. A deep dive into the stellar earnings reported by all major U.S. banks.

Also featured:

• Listener mailbag with practical guidance on T-bill investing.
• A discussion about the long-term thesis (and caveats) for Toast, the restaurant payment tech company.

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1. IBM’s Historic Stock Drop

Discussion begins [00:02]

Key Points

• IBM shares fell 26%—the company’s biggest one-day drop since 1968—after issuing a preliminary revenue warning.

  • Revenue guidance: $17.2 billion, shy of the $17.9 billion expected.
  • Earnings per share (EPS): $2.93 vs. $3.02 expected.

• The change in guidance seems modest relative to IBM’s size, but “there had to have been more to the story here, right?” (Tyler Crowe, [00:02])

Lou Whiteman ([01:15])

• The magnitude of the selloff stems from management’s reasoning: CEO Arvind Krishna cited a shift in client spending toward servers, memory, and storage due to anticipated price hikes—possibly not just a short-term issue.
• “It’s a head-for-the-exit, sell-the-news sort of move.”

Matt Frankel ([02:31])

• The 26% plunge is not justified by the numbers alone.
• “The question … is if the shift towards spending more on things like memory and other hardware is a temporary headwind or is it becoming a permanent problem for companies like IBM.”
• Micron’s recent guidance argues tight memory supply could last into 2027, suggesting this may not be a brief hiccup.
  • “That’s what kind of scares me about this long term.” ([03:53])

Forward-Looking Concerns

• The group notes:
  • IBM hasn’t reported full bookings yet, which have been a driver, especially in AI.
  • Early disclosure (“pre-announcing”) typically signals unusually negative developments.
  • Matt is cautious but optimistic with a long-term horizon:
    • “If this price holds, the risk-reward makes a lot of sense to me, especially if you have a five-plus-year time horizon.” ([05:02])
    • Matt will watch the full earnings release “very closely” on July 22 (“That’s my birthday and that’s how much I’m paying attention to this.”) ([05:49])

Big Picture (Lou, [06:09])

• “The drop means we’re back to where we were in mid-May… perspective is needed.”
• The real question: Is IBM’s business model now too discretionary in customer eyes?
• Tyler: Despite volatility, “Over the past three years, IBM is beating the market… things are still looking okay.” ([07:45])

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2. Major U.S. Bank Earnings Blowout

Discussion begins [09:32]

Key Points

• All major banks—JPMorgan, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Goldman Sachs, Citigroup—beat earnings expectations.
• Goldman led in equities trading: $7.5 billion generated this quarter.
• The narrative goes beyond one-off wins (e.g., the SpaceX IPO) to reflect industry-wide trends.

Matt Frankel ([10:35])

• JPMorgan Chase:
  • $7.70 EPS (almost $2 above estimates).
  • Beat revenue by $7 billion.
• It's not just about “investment banking.”
  • Wells Fargo also posted a strong beat with a small investment bank.
• Market-wide M&A hit $3 trillion in H1 2026.
  • “It’s a general like industry-wide trend. The question is how sustainable is it?”

Under-Discussed Themes

• Net Interest Income:
  • Despite the Fed holding steady, banks are raising guidance for net interest income.
  • “JPMorgan Chase … is expecting $2.5 billion more in full year net interest income than they were in April.”
• Wealth Management:
  • Money is moving off the sidelines.
  • “JPMorgan reported 44,000 ‘first time investors.’ Goldman's assets under management grew by 20% year over year.”
• Credit Quality:
  • Charge-offs are lower than expected; consumers and businesses remain healthy despite macro concerns.

Lou Whiteman ([12:26])

• “Hire for longer works with banks. I’m going to just go up and scream that from the hilltops. Financials make so much sense to me right now where they are valued…”
• Highlights Citigroup’s turnaround:
  • CEO Jane Frazier’s restructuring is “working… hitting goals ahead of schedule.”
  • Citi raised its dividend 12%, announced a $30B share buyback.
  • “Maybe it’s time to take Citi seriously.”

Stress Test Context ([13:16])

• Discussion of recent regulatory stress tests:
  • Most banks passed easily, which may support confidence and enable more aggressive capital returns.
• Lou:
  • “I think just the across-the-board success today should alleviate some of that nervousness [about banks].” ([14:29])

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3. Mailbag: T-Bill Investing & Toast Stock

Discussion starts [16:12]

T-Bills 101 (Lou, [17:28])

• Why use T-bills: 6-month bills are paying almost 4%—higher than many savings accounts.
• How to buy:
  • Directly via TreasuryDirect.gov or through brokerages like Vanguard.
  • No rate/price advantage between them; selection is about preference and user experience.
  • “You can buy existing Treasuries on the open market or … new issues and just hold [to] maturity.”
• Pricing:
  • You buy below face value (e.g., pay $980, receive $1,000 at maturity).
  • “The most confusing part… is the way they’re priced.” ([17:28])

Toast Inc. (TOST): Bull vs Bear

Matt Frankel ([19:32])

• Bull Case:

  • Product adoption remains strong—added 7,000 locations last quarter (now at 171,000).
  • Annual recurring revenue grew by 26%.
  • Margins improving, first operating margin above 20% (not adjusted).
  • Aggressive buybacks signal management confidence.
  • “The growth story here is still intact, despite any AI disruption fears.”
  • Toast is insulated from AI commoditization risks by owning the hardware and software stack and integrating AI features.
  • Market scale advantage (restaurant workers already familiar with Toast).

• Risks:

  • Margin headwinds due to rising memory costs—an industry-wide issue.
  • Competition: Clover (more locations, less volume), Block/Square.
  • “It’s not a cheap stock, but as long as it keeps growing the top line … I am a fan of Toast at these levels.” ([21:28])

Lou Whiteman ([21:28])

• Bear Case:
  • “I like the business better than the stock.”
  • Restaurant industry = low margins, high failure rates.
  • Toast’s 171,000 locations aren’t a huge share out of over a million U.S. restaurants.
  • Features are replicable by competitors; switching costs may not be that high.
  • “I think this continues to be a just slugfest business. Tough to gain margin, tough to gain real pricing power.”

Tyler Crowe ([22:20])

• Competitive space: “It is an intensely competitive space with Clover and Square and the three of them combined have hoovered up a decent amount of the space.”
• Concern: Maintaining 20%+ growth gets harder as market penetration increases—market share gains become more difficult.

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4. Notable Quotes

• “This was the biggest drop since I think 1968 for the stock, more than, you know, Black Monday in 1987.”
  —Tyler Crowe, [00:02]

• “That’s what kind of scares me about this long-term.”
  —Matt Frankel (on memory market pressures for IBM), [03:53]

• “Hire for longer works with banks. I’m going to just go up and scream that from the hilltops.”
  —Lou Whiteman, [12:26]

• “Maybe it’s time to take Citi seriously. Maybe it’s time to give them a look.”
  —Lou Whiteman, [12:54]

• “If this price holds, the risk-reward makes a lot of sense to me, especially if you have a five-plus-year time horizon.”
  —Matt Frankel, [05:02]

• “Financials make so much sense to me right now where they are valued, especially in the regional banks.”
  —Lou Whiteman, [12:28]

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5. Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |------------------------------------|--------------| | IBM stock drop overview | [00:02]–[08:31] | | Bank earnings breakdown | [09:32]–[15:04] | | T-bill investing mailbag | [17:28] | | Toast stock debate | [19:32]–[23:51] |

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6. Takeaways & Tone

• Analysts adopt a measured, analytical approach:
  • IBM’s selloff likely overdone from a pure numbers perspective, but fundamental concerns about changing customer behavior and supply chain constraints merit caution.
  • Banks are “cashing in” on robust loan activity, net interest income, and M&A/markets activity; outlook constructive, especially for investors seeking value in the sector.
  • Healthy skepticism deployed in evaluating high-growth tech companies like Toast, balancing enthusiasm for product and growth with hard questions about margin durability and competition.

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For investors seeking perspective beyond daily headlines, this episode delivers level-headed analysis with actionable context, making it essential listening (or reading) for anyone watching IBM, the banking sector, or payments technology.

Transcript

[A]

Big banks are loving this market. Today on Motley Fool Hidden Gems Investing. Welcome to Motley Fool Hidden Gems Investing. I'm your host, Tyler Crowe. And today I'm joined by longtime fool contributors Lou Whiteman and Matt Frankel. As I kind of hinted with the intro, we're going to get into the blockbuster quarter that just about every bank had that reported today. And it was pretty much anybody that is a major bank in the United States reported today, and it looked fantastic. We're also going to get into some reader emails. But first, we're going to start with the big kind of news moment of the day, and that is shares of IBM are down 26% as we are taping this show after the company issued preliminary results for the upcoming quarter that really were not in line with analyst expectations. Now, Lou, this was a big drop. I saw a Bloomberg headline earlier before we got on. It was the biggest drop Since I think 1968 for the stock, more than, you know, Black Monday in 1987. So what was this big drop for what it seemed to me was a relatively modest revision to what we were seeing? There had to have been more to the story here, right?

[B]

Yeah, I think, I think there is. As you say, this isn't the full earnings release. This is preliminary. IBM, basically all they warned is revenue is going to come in about 17.2 billion short of 17.9 billion. It's not a huge amount. I think what triggered a sell off is kind of the reasoning given. CEO Arvind Christmas said last few weeks of June, IBM saw clients shift capex towards hardware, servers, memory storage away from Big Blue. That's probably not just a last two weeks and a quarter thing. Given the way the stock had traded up. I think that this is a head for the exit sell the news sort of a move.

[A]

Yeah, something in the difference of a $700 million change in revenue. Yeah, the number sound sounds big. But again, for talking about 17 billion, give or take a few hundred million, that's not a big deal. Now, Matt, the three of us did a live event for the Motley fool back in San Diego a few months ago and you made the case for IBM stock as one of your top picks right now, I'm not trying to put you on full blast here because the stock is down and oh, let's all make fun of Matt, but does anything that announced today alter your thinking here? Like we said, this isn't a huge revision, but there's some, seems to be some other stuff going on here.

[C]

Yes. I mean, so first of All I welcome being called out when I make a public call on a stock like this and then something like today happens. As Lou said, the numbers themselves weren't too awful. I mean that 17.2 billion versus 17.9 billion, that's not worthy of a 26% drop all by itself. But there is more to the story. I mean earnings per share came in at 293 versus expectations of 302 not worthy of a 26% drop. This would be IBM's worst single day ever by the way. The previous biggest one day drop they had was Black Monday in 1987 and this would exceed that. So the question that seems to be on investors mind and the one that is more worthy of the drop we're seeing is if the shift towards spending more on things like memory and other hardware is a temporary headwind or is it becoming a permanent problem for companies like IBM. So Christian's own explanation is that clients redirected their late July or late June capex towards server storage and memory to lock in supply ahead of price hikes. Remember we've seen Apple raise its prices recently specifically because of memory. Same idea here. So that sounds like a temporary reaction by IBM's customers to soaring memory prices. But on the other hand Micron recently said that memory supply is going to be tight well into 2027 and we're starting to see these memory companies shift toward longer term price agreed service contracts. So that's what kind of scares me about this long term.

[A]

Yeah, and this is what kind of bugged me about it a little bit as well. I mean if this was just a one off like yeah, you know, things are going to get shifted maybe six, nine months down the road. Again, $700 million in sales, not the biggest thing. It seems like this was a big move for a short term headwind. But you know, when I see things like this, and let's all be kind of honest here, there's a lot of institutional investors who, and high, high frequency traders and might know a little bit more because they can pick up the phone and ask a few things. One of the things I kind of think of is there might be more than one cockroach in the kitchen here. So as we're looking forward, investors that are looking at IBM maybe want to think like oh man, maybe this is just a good time to, to buy some cheap shares because you know of what we've seen today, you know what else could be coming down the pipe that may may assuage investors or maybe something that may signal it's an actual rough patch. What are some other things that we can look for that may be promising or you know, signs of worse to come?

[C]

Yeah, so one thing we don't have yet and we mentioned this is just the preliminary report. We don't know everything. We don't have IBM's bookings yet meaning the future revenue that is now that is being committed to. That's been a big driver of the stock in recent quarters especially on the AI side of the business. But judging by Christian's generally negative tone that we've heard today, I'm not expecting the bookings number to look nearly as stellar as it did last quarter. The fact that they pre announced is really the biggest red flag here and that's what's, you know that's usually reserved when things are especially bad. So my bottom line is that today's move makes sense. It isn't a reason to panic. To be transparent, IBM is a relatively small position in my portfolio right now. So I'm planning to cautiously add to it a little bit. If this price holds, the risk reward makes a lot of sense to me especially if you have a five plus year time horizon. At that San Diego event you mentioned I talked about things like how IBM's quietly becoming the quantum computer leader as part of my thesis. But I'm going to be watching their full earnings report when it comes out on July 22 very closely. That's my birthday and that's how much I'm paying attention to this. I'm still going to be reading it.

[B]

I think it's important to mention just when we talk about it on sale today it's basically the drop means we're back to where we were were in mid May. So before people like yell you know go out. It's a buying opportunity. You know I, I do think that perspective is, is needed. I. The real question here as Matt hinted at this is is that there is a way to spin this as it's a temporary phenomena and it will pass. There is also a way to read this as what IBM is selling isn't as important to the end customer as what they are buying. There's almost a question about is you know with consumer we talk about Staples and discretionary. There is a way to spin this that IBM is in the discretionary bucket and not the you know, staple bucket here. I don't know if that is the right reading but I think that's a word of caution. And you think about this just there can't be, you can't spend all the money in the world on everything. At the end of the day, corporations have to make choices. The choices they made in this quarter did not benefit IBM.

[C]

Yeah, and I mean, I would agree with that, that IBM is more in the discretionary basket than, you know, consumer staples. Especially when it comes to what we're talking here. Like, you know, you can hire all the AI consultants you want to. If you don't have enough memory to keep your systems going, that really doesn't matter. So when it, when it comes to what their, their clients are spending money on, it is more of a discretionary thing. And that's why we're seeing, you know, revenue kind of, you know, ebb and flow during this AI cycle.

[A]

And you know, as, as Lou said, let's keep this all in perspective. Over the past three years, IBM is beating the market over the past five years, the IBM is beating the market over on a total performance basis. So yeah, it's been this past, like you said, it's, you know, about the same where as it was in May, it's about the same where it was in January. 2026 has not been IBM's shining year so far. But, you know, if we start pulling back the curtain, things are still looking okay. We'll have to see whether or not this is a foreboding sign or maybe just, you know, a temporary roadblock. But we will see. Coming up next, we're going to really jump into bank earnings.

[D]

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[A]

earnings calendar for today and of course we had all the big banks and then There was one other company, Fastenal, which I found kind of funny. It was almost like one of these things is not like the other sort of situation where it's like yeah, we're going to talk about gigantic banks and then an industrial parts distributor. But you know, considering how robust and I, I, you know, beating expectations that pretty much every bank posted, it seemed like it was the more appropriate thing to talk about than this small industrial parts manufacturer which, you know, maybe for another time, you know. Today JP Morgan, bank of America, Wells Fargo and Goldman Sachs and Citigroup all reported or earnings and all of them reported better than expected results. I think the theme of this quarter was massive gains in equity trading. I think Goldman Sachs led the way where they had a, they brought in $7.5 billion in equities trading this quarter alone. Now we can say that it was stock volatility and the SpaceX IPO that resulted in some one off gains. But are there some kind of less discussed themes that led to all these companies posting such good results?

[C]

Yes. I mean you're right Tyler, that the results were generally excellent and not just in. They're not just typical earnings beats here. I mean JPMorgan Chase reported $7.7 in earnings per share. That's almost $2 more than expected. They beat revenue expectations by about $7 billion. Not even close. And it's not just investment banking. I mean Wells Fargo, their earnings beat by a significant margin even though they have a very small investment bank. I push back a bit on when it comes to equity trading on the one off framing that you just said around the volatility in SpaceX IPO, we're seeing M and A at a level that we haven't seen since 2021. Global M&A was $3 trillion in the first half and so it wasn't just one dealer IPO. It's a general like industry wide trend. The question is how sustainable is it? But to more directly answer your question, one thing that I'm not seeing discussed that much is the net interest income side of this. Even with the Fed essentially on hold right now, the banks are generally raising their net interest income expectations. I mean JPMorgan Chase, they're expecting $2.5 billion more in full year net interest income than they were in April. They're seeing strong loan growth. The internal rate dynamics, meaning what they're paying on deposits versus what they're getting on loans is better than expected. There are a few other big themes. Wealth management inflows across the board. Investors are putting Money to work that had been on the sidelines. JP Morgan reported 44,000 quote, first time investors. Goldman's assets under management grew by 20% year over year and the market isn't up by 20%. More importantly, credit quality is holding up better than we expected. The big banks, they're reporting lower than expected. Charge offs almost across the board. And it shows that despite some major economic fears, you know, inflation, the Iran war, things like that, consumers and businesses are still staying pretty healthy.

[B]

Yeah, Matt did a great job breaking it down. I'll just make a couple of quick points. One on net interest margin hire for longer works with banks. I'm going to just go up and scream that from the hilltops. Financials make so much sense to me right now where they are valued, especially in the regional banks. I think let's learn a lesson from this in terms of what the interest rate cycle means for banks. The other thing, let's just do a special shout out for Citi. Citi is usually the butt of a joke when we're discussing banks. They have a long history of screwing things up. But CEO Jane Frazier, the restructuring program seems to be working. They're hitting goals ahead of schedule. They raised a dividend by 12%, announced a 30 billion with a B share buyback program. Citi is the laggard of this group in terms of multiples. The investor takeaway here is maybe it's time to take Citi seriously. Maybe it's time to give them a look.

[A]

Yeah, Matt, to your point, you know, saying it wasn't necessarily a one off event, but it certainly does feel like a vibes sort of event. Like you said, M and A activity is high, IPO activity is high. Money is moving off the sidelines and into the, you know, to use the term, the animal spirit seem to be really hitting everybody right now and everybody seems to be cashing in and of course the house tends to win and the house in this case is the big banks. I want to drill into something a little bit more specific though. And it was a few weeks back, the banks, all of them went through their stress test, basically working with regulators to figure out, you know, how much capital they need to keep on the books in the event of a credit event. You know, a lot to do with Dodd Frank back after the great financial crisis just in making sure that we don't run into the same problems we had again. And most of them passed with flying colors this time in part because the regulatory stress test wasn't quite as robust it has been in years. Past so, so much so that there were discussions at the time about accelerated buybacks and other ways of kind of releasing capital that was on the balance sheet for safety reasons. Did that play any part part in these results and that has all these stocks doing incredibly well, or is that maybe just a later down the road sort of story?

[B]

It wouldn't have played a part in the results. It might be part of the enthusiasm today. Although look, the banks got a nice boost when it was announced. I think why we're seeing the stocks moving higher. It's a simple answer. It's today's results. If one bank shows resilience, that's great for that one bank. But the across the board positivity that sort of implies, that wasn't a 1/4 fluke. It wasn't a one time thing from anyone. There's a lot of fear and nervousness when it comes to financials right now. I think just the across the board success today that should alleviate some of that nervousness.

[A]

Coming up after the break, we're going to jump into the mailbag.

[D]

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[A]

do you hear that? Sounds like breakfast is ready because Quakers coming in hot with morning nutrition, 100% whole grain oats and a good source of fiber to fuel the rhythm of your morning and kickstart your day. And that sounds absolutely delicious. Fuel to start whatever's next Quaker Official sponsor of FIFA World Cup 26. Hey everyone, just a quick reminder. If you want to ask a question to us and have it read live on air, go ahead and send email [e-mail] that's podcast with an sool.com three requests as always, keep it foolish, keep it short enough I can read on air, and try not to ask any individual advice so we don't get in trouble with the sec. Now we normally only do one, but we're going to do a two for today because we actually got a little bit of fan mail for Lou on this one because somebody apparently is a big fan of you talking about T bills either here on the podcast or in some of our live appearances that we do for members over at the Motley Fool. Lou, the question comes from Marianne and says Lou often mentions that he parks money in T bills. Could you give us a tutorial on how to actually buy T bills? So Lou, take it away.

[B]

Sure. Well, first off, the argument for it is it doesn't replace equities. But look, right now I'm getting almost 4% on six month bills if that's better than most online savings accounts. So why not just chase to yield as far as how you buy them, a couple of pointers. You can buy Treasuries through the US [e-mail] or you can do it through most brokerages. There isn't a different price or different rate, so it's really how you want to do it. I buy through Vanguard, but I know some people like to separate it out. I've heard good things about TreasuryDirect. That's whatever you want to do. Actual user experience varies by brokerage. It's very similar to buying stocks though. You just click buy bonds, select Treasuries instead of corporates. You can buy existing Treasuries on the open market or but what I do is I buy new issues and just hold the maturity. The most confusing thing or the thing you might want to look at is the way they're priced. You buy new issues in $1,000 increments, but you don't pay face value. You pay the amount before interest. So if you pay say 9, 980 bucks today and get a thousand bucks back in six months, for example, that's the most confusing part. Other than that, pretty straightforward. And again, it's kind of just as an alternative to savings accounts when the rates are better, why not take advantage of the rate?

[A]

Well Marianne, I hope that answers your question. And back to our kind of stock related ones. We got a question from Brian and he really went out of his way to say that he's from Corn country of Illinois and not just, you know, some other part of Illinois. And Brian asks guys, what is up With Toast, I've owned it for about two years. Stock's down quite a bit. Motley fool podcast, and, you know, not to Brian's email, but in a lot of other places within Motley Fool's kind of extended universe of media, we've talked positively about the. And, you know, it's been used rather ubiquitously. I think it has a decent market share right now. Brian asks restaurant parking lots usually seem full. I'm aware costs have increased and margins are tight. Is this a lost cause, stock Toast? I usually hang up stocks a couple years. What are your current thoughts on Toast?

[C]

Yeah, so, I mean, I'm a fan of toast, to be fair. I'm one of the ones that you're referring to that usually speaks positively, positively of it. So that's probably not a surprise. But the growth story here is still intact, despite any AI disruption fears. So annual recurring revenue grew by 26% in the last quarter. They added 7,000 new locations. So it's a product that's still resonating with customers. Their margins are excellent. Their operating margin, not adjusted, was above 20% for the first time ever in the most recent quarter. They're aggressively buying back stocks. So the management clearly thinks the stock is underpriced. I mean, the bear case here is with all software as a service businesses like this is that AI agents are eventually going to commoditize it and kind of drive down users, drive down pricing power, things like that. Toast is nicely insulated from this for a few reasons. So, number one, it owns the full stack, meaning hardware and software. The little Toast, the things that servers hold in their hands, only work with Toast software. It has done an excellent job of building out its own AI tools. And the fact that it's used in 171,000 locations right now, that's a pretty competitive advantage in an industry that has a somewhat transient workforce. You know, if you're already trained on Toast in one restaurant, you can easily move to another restaurant. And it's. It's a lot less friction to move jobs. There are some risk factors here to keep in mind, for sure. I mean, memory costs we've talked about on the, you know, in our other segments, they're expected to be a pretty big margin headwind to Toast because they have to. They have a lot of memory needs. There's a lot of competition. Clover has more locations, just Toast has more, more volume Square, you know, block square is still a big part of the restaurant industry. And this is still not a cheap stock. But as long as it keeps Growing the top line at 20% year over year. And it's doing it profitably. Keeps building out its ecosystem of features. I, I am a fan of TOAST at these levels.

[B]

Yeah, I like the business better than the stock. I've never been enamored with the stock. It's, it's just restaurants are such a tough, low margin business. Matt mentions 171,000 locations, but from the BLS numbers, there's about over a million restaurant locations. So it's not a huge market share. I don't see anything in what Toast does that it might have been forward, but I don't think there's anything that can't be copied by Clover. So many restaurants go out of business. I don't know if just kind of getting your tools established or anchored in. I don't know if switching costs matter too much. I think this continues to be a just slugfest business. Tough to gain margin, tough to gain real pricing power. And again, I like as a consumer, they've made the restaurant experience better for me. I wish them all the best, but it's just not, not a stock I'm interested in.

[A]

Yeah, I don't really have a horse in the, or a dog in this fight, I guess, if you will. Mixing my metaphors as always. But you know, I'm just kind of throwing on the, the, the bear case cap for a second here. Matt, to your point, you know, it is an intensely competitive space with Clover and Square and the three of them combined have hoovered up a decent amount of the space in terms of market share. And toast's gains in market share up until now have garnered that 20% revenue growth or ARR. Growth that they have seen. And the thing that I keep coming back to when I look at this is what you said was as long as they keep that 20% growth, revenue growth. Well, that involves, you know, continuing to grow market share. And I think that the market share gains from here, where I think they're somewhere in like the mid-20s percent, at least in some independent data that's, that's been put out there, is going from, you know, that to 40% is much, much harder than going from, you know, 5 to 10% up to where it is today. And so there is a real possibility that revenue could slow as a result because it becomes much more of a knife fight getting, you know, market share relative to a lot of its competitors. But it seems to be like, as anyone who has either seen it or if you talk with people in the industry, they seem to really like the product, and so it has that aspect to it. Not saying that it can't do it, but it's just going to get harder from here. That's all the time we have for today. Lou, Matt, thanks for sharing thoughts. I'm going to hit disclosure and we'll

[C]

get out of here.

[A]

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