C (3:32)

Yeah, I agree with Matt here. I don't think it's quite worth what the market says it is. Even still after the pullback. And that's nothing against Ferrari. And that's nothing against people who really like this business. I think there is a lot to like with Ferrari's business, but any stock at the wrong price can be a bad investment. And I think we can just zoom out and think a little bit about how is shareholder value created. And I think that one of the main ways that often happens is with business growth. But then you look at Ferrari and it's only expecting a 5% compound annual growth rate through 2030. That's not a huge growth rate there. Profit margin expansion is one another way that shareholder value is created. It is expecting some Ferrari, but not a ton necessarily. Going from a 39% adjusted EBITDA margin to a 40% 1%. And then you think about capital return to shareholders. Now, Ferrari expects to return 7 billion euros to shareholders cumulatively by 2030. That's around 10% of its current market cap. But of course, that's spread out over the next several years. So that's not a ton on a per annual basis. So, yeah, it's not enough juice to justify the current valuation, in my opinion.

A (4:44)

I want to kind of dig a little bit more into something you were alluding to, Matt, with kind of the. The luxury pull forward a little bit here because this is the part of the puzzle I've been trying to figure out when it comes to Ferrari. And we could kind of. This could go out to a little bit more. Is this. Is this really a Ferrari problem or a consumer spending problem? Like, you know, ask you guys both. But here's what I'm thinking. On the one hand, you know, Ferrari said it's Cutting in. It's cutting its EV lineup because it's a pretty clear sign that its projected lineup out to 2030 wasn't really reverberating with its clientele. And so it's going back to that traditional conventional engine and that distinct Ferrari sound you hear. And that's what the ultra wealthy want to pony up for when it's this type of business. Getting back to that makes sense. But it was pretty clear that they might have missed with this EV push with kind of it still being an uncertain product on the market. But at the same time, if you look at a lot of other luxury brands out there, lvmh. So Louis Vuitton, Moet Hennessy, Hermes, I call Restoration Hardware. It's not quite that level of luxury, but similar sort of sentiment. None of them are really doing too hot over the past couple of years. And so part of me is wondering, like, is this really a Ferrari story or a people pulling back on luxury discretionary goods?

C (6:09)

I don't think it's necessarily the latter. I don't think it's necessarily a pullback broadly in consumer spending. You look at Ferrari specifically, it always has more demand than it intends to supply. It always intends to make less cars than what the market wants. That's just how the business works. And so you're looking at, for example, Ferrari's growth rate over the next five years. You're looking at what they're projecting. I think that investors simply just wanted a little bit more. And it's hard to know how big is its potential customer base. There's some data points out there. You look at the world's billionaire list, it increased by 8% in 2024. And Ferrari is only expecting 5% annual growth from here. So maybe you would expect it to go up at least by the amount of billionaires that are going up in the world. I don't know. I don't think that it's a broad thing that we're looking at here, not necessarily a data point for that. I think that you're just looking at Ferrari's results and Ferrari saying, we don't think that we're going to have as much demand in 2030 as. As what some investors might have hoped for.

B (7:14)

One thing, it's not just billionaires who buy Ferraris. There are at least three that I know of in my neighborhood, and they ain't billionaires. It's people who just have a taste for luxury for the most part. To Tyler's point, the EV cut is pretty dramatic. But Ferrari is, as you mentioned really good at not building cars that its customers don't want. I can't remember any duds that Ferrari ever released. At least in the past 20, 30 years, we are seeing people cut back on luxuries, which is it's common not only if consumer sentiment's kind of low, which it is right now, but it's also a function of the interest rate environment. I mean, even if I wanted a Ferrari right now, I wouldn't be willing to pay 10% interest to get one. I guarantee you. A lot of people have Ferraris finance them. Not everyone's a billionaire who pays cash was kind of my point with what I said earlier. But they do a great job, like John said, of keeping demand just ahead of supply for that reason. I mean, they tend to hold up better than most automakers. They don't oversupply their dealers, they don't put out cars that aren't, that don't have long wait lists when they come out. And the last point I'd make is that for Ferraris, compared to most other cars, the used Ferrari market is very strong right now. So maybe a lot of customers, they're just not buying new ones. They're going to the used market where they can get a little more for their money. So Ferrari has so many different dynamics than the average car company.

A (8:37)

I once saw a used Ferrari for $19,000 in a used car lot, but I'm pretty sure it had a Honda Civic engine in it, so I don't know if that would still count as a Ferrari. Thanks for that, guys. Coming up next, we're talking about Meme stocks. Trading at Schwab is now powered by Ameritrade, bringing you an expanding library of education with even more ways to sharpen your trading skills. Access new online courses, insightful webcasts, articles, engaging videos and more, all curated just for traders. Plus guided learning paths with content designed to fit your unique interests. No sifting to find exactly what you need so you can spend your time learning to trade brilliantly. Learn more@schwab.com Trading back in 2021, Roundhill Investments really captured the investing zeitgeist with a meme stock ETF. SPACs were booming, the WallStreetBets Reddit page was sending stocks up dou in matter of minutes. And there was a sense of euphoria around how the pandemic was going to turn all of our lives digital. And everything was different by 2023. This ETF under the ticker meme Meme actually closed up shop because a lot of those companies didn't quite make it. But you know, to use social media parlance from it's so over. We're so back. We are so back because Roundhill announced yesterday that it is relaunching the Meme Stock ETF with a whole new set of holdings. Now, I wish we had video for this podcast because I would like to take that iconic lineup from the usual suspects and just put the tickers over their faces. Like if we look at the Round Hill Meme ETF under the same ticker again, me. It was like that last period during 21, 2022. It was certainly the top in terms of market euphoria and a particular set of companies. So what camp are you in when we look at this new iteration of the Meme Stock etf, Do you think this is an old song and dance and it's probably going to have the same results, or is this perhaps going to a different rhythm?

C (10:43)

I think that people hear things like, last time it was close to the top and then there was a market crash. If I've learned anything over my years as an investor, I can't predict when a market crash is about to happen. I can't predict when a market is about to bottom out and a bull run is about to start. I think that the launch of the Meme etf, it's not necessarily a predictor, a precursor of, oh man, the stock market's about to crash. I would say it is indicative of what you said, Tyler. A lot of euphoria in the market and there's perhaps a lot of stocks that have gone up by a astronomical amount relative to the business results. I think it's good, though, to keep in mind this isn't necessarily predicting that the stock market is reaching a top and it's about to fall. I think that this is why a lot of fools, capital fools, use the always be investing framework. We can't time the best entry, the best exits in our stocks based on market conditions. There is normally something that we can find right now that's attractive that we can buy and hold for the long term.

B (11:48)

Yeah, I think this is kind of the same old in the sense that you're going to have a few meme stocks that win long term. A few which we saw in 2021. I mean, Robinhood was considered a Meme stock back then and its investors have done very, very well. But most will cool off and exactly what happened to most meme stocks in 2021. I almost view this ETF as being riskier than buying Individual meme stocks and trying to find the ones that are actually going to be decent businesses and work out well like the Robinhoods of the world. Because you're buying a basket of stocks and you know like 80 to 90% of them are not going to work out well. So you might as well just take a chance and buy the ones that you think are going to be the winners. Like John said, I can't call a top here or anything like that. If anything, I think we're a little bit away from a top just because the people who launched this etf, they already had the framework in place, they already knew what to look for. It's less reactionary than the first time around, less, not completely unreactionary. I'm not investing in it, but I don't know what you guys are going.

A (12:52)

To do on the reactionary thing. And that's actually where I kind of landed when I looked at this and I find myself this is a looking backwards sort of etf. When I think of like meme stock etf it's like trying to identify the next big mean stocks that you can really benefit from their run up. I thought, I would think that a company that wants to put out a product like this, this particular ETF that Roundhill has done, I thought they would be trying to do that instead of trying to, I guess you could say, ride the coattails of all these companies that are in the portfolio that have already had jaw dropping returns. We have companies in here that are up 4 over the past year. That's a lot. And I'm just wondering if it's just trying to catch the last bit of fumes rather than being a forward looking trying to identify the next big thing. So with that I do have a little challenge for us because as you've got Matt, there's probably a couple of them in here that over the long term are going to work out. So before the show I sent you a list of the entire Meme ETF holdings. So let's set aside valuation and market hype and all this stuff and let's just look at the core businesses them of that list. I told you to pick one and make the best business case for them. So John, let's start with you.

C (14:09)

I'm glad that you let me pick first Tyler, because I couldn't make a business case for all of the stocks in the etf. But soundhound AI ticker symbol S O U N I can make a business case here. This is a 3.4% allocation in the ETF. And I think there is a real business here. It's a first mover when it comes to AI speech conversation. And it's used by many of the top auto companies for its tech, for voice controls in the car. Many top restaurants use it for ordering at the drive thru, for example. And the thing is, it has nearly 200 patents, which does give it something from a competitive standpoint. And it's also growing like crazy. It expects to generate at least 160 million in revenue this year. That would be up roughly 100% from what it generated last year. So look, the stock valuation is something that I question. There are ongoing losses here, that's an issue. But there is a real business here.

B (15:09)

So I was actually kind of narrowing it down to the two on the list that to me are not real businesses yet. And that's QuantumScape and Oklo. And I went with Oklo. There are a pre revenue nuclear reactor company. They're building small scale nuclear reactors. Generally. The thesis here is that the latest tech trends, specifically AI are going to have a lot of power demand that really wasn't accounted for. And even the future power forecast from 10 years ago, AI power demand wasn't included. No one wants to build the old 30 sources of power. And the newer renewable sources of power like solar and wind may not be able to meet all the demand by itself. So nuclear is a very, very natural option. The problem is, you know, it takes forever. And a lot of, you know, there's a lot behind the scenes that goes on with building big nuclear plants. So they're trying to build kind of smaller nuclear plants to be kind of more local to where these data centers and things like that are. They're building a prototype right now. It's called a small modular reactor. The first revenue is a couple of years away. The first profit isn't expected until 2030. They might not even have enough revenue on their balance sheet to get there. They have a little over half a billion dollars in the bank. It's estimated they're going to need like a billion to a billion and a half over the next five years in just cash burn. But if, I mean at the current valuation, they'll have no problem raising that. It's about a $20 billion market cap. And this is really a lookout to 2050 stock. It's not about what it's going to do in 2030 when it's generating its first dollar of profit. It's a lookout to 2050 stock where if they could figure out how to make These small reactors viable and profitable. There's a massive opportunity here with the ever expanding power needs of AI. So that's one that I think could turn into a really interesting business. I think the $20 billion market cap kind of as you said for all these, the valuation is a little bit stretched, to put it mildly. It's 10x more than 10x in the past year. That's one that I think will be really, really interesting to watch just because I really like the technology and I think it does have real potential.

A (17:19)

The one that I actually found the most interesting, at least from a business perspective and kind of that similar vein on the power, you know, power, power growth, demand for electrons, I guess, if you will, especially with AI and everything that we've been talking about over the past couple of shows. I went with Bloom Energy, it's a hydrogen fuel cell manufacturer, kind of that same idea. Fuel cells are going to be part of the backup spare power, not quite baseload. A little bit of like a similar vein of electric battery in terms of storage and on demand power for data centers. Because when it comes to data centers you need 100% uptime and there's a lot of going on in the background to make that happen. And Bloom Energy just happens to be one of the ones that can effectively deploy things relatively quickly, which is actually getting harder and harder when it comes to building out these facilities. And the best part about it is over the past 12 months it's actually profitable on a GAAP basis. So it's actually earning earnings per share. So I think of all these it is the most profitable, at least compared to what else is on the list. So yeah, valuation is way out of hand here with the the meme stock rally carrying it. But this is a real business and it's actually growing at a pretty good weight. After the break, we're going to wrap up with stocks on our radar that a little less meme y and a little bit more business.

D (18:45)

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A (20:15)

That was our Thursday tradition. We're going to be doing stocks on our radar. I know we just talked about meme stocks, but we're going to try to get a little bit more down into the business of things that probably stick to our knitting, I guess, if you will. So Matt, why don't we start with you and then we'll go around the horn.

B (20:28)

Yeah, so the stock that's on my radar right now is Target. I mentioned this one a while ago right after it reported earnings and the stock went down. It's gone down even a little bit more. Its Yield is about 5.1% right now, close to its highest ever trades for about 10 and a half times earnings. And I mean, it's down for a good reason. Consumers have kind of shifted away from Target, which is a little bit more of an upscale big box retailer, toward like Walmart, which is common when consumer sentiment is low and it just favors discount retailers. They have new leadership now. They're making the necessary moves to get back on track. Target has a very strong history of navigating difficult environments for the business, including the pandemic. Nobody did Omnichannel better than Target in the beginning. In the earlier days of the pandemic, just to name one example in the financial crisis, they did a great job of doing exactly what they need to do now and getting people to go to Target more than Walmart. It's a dividend king. Over 50 years of consecutive dividend increases. I Do not think Target is Kmart 2.0. I think this company sells a very bright future and it's a really good buying opportunity.

A (21:36)

I went with First Solar and this is going to sound a little unconventional considering the current environment and the ending of tax credits for renewable energy and things like that. But here is why I think this is going to be more important than people think. When again going back to that AI needs electrons sort of thesis. If you look out, there are a couple of things that are fast to deploy. We've been talking about nuclear, but that's like five, six, seven years away. We talk about same thing. Even if you were to talk about putting on a new coal plant, that's again five, six years the only the really the two things that can deploy quickly in terms of putting electrons into AI or onto the grid, it's natural gas and it's solar. And those are the right now the quickest to deploy. And because of that and the voracious demand that we are seeing for power these days, I think what's going to happen is AI companies that are trying to build all their own power packs, whether it be with natural gas or solar or whatever, you know, to be behind the meter and not rely on the grid. I think they're going to have to go with solar and have to go with nuclear and sorry, natural gas for the next five years because they're just going to be what is available. First Solar is, when it comes to utility scale solar in the United States, it's the biggest player and it is focused almost entirely in the North American market. It just brought two major manufacturing lines online in the past, I think 12 to 18 or past 12 or 18 months. The details on the numbers are a little off, but if there's somebody that's going to deliver power to, to these AI data centers, I think First Solar is going to be a big winner and even without tax subsidies because these companies are going to have to pay up to make this happen. And I think that could really work well in First Solar's case. John, what do you got?

C (23:32)

Yeah, thanks Tyler. For my radar stock today I have floor and decor ticker symbol fnd. I've highlighted this before as my radar stock, but I recently added to my position. So this is a money where my mouth is stock and so I wanted to highlight it again. Floor and Decor is a home improvement retailer with a focus on flooring. And one of the things that I do like about this company is its management team, specifically CEO Tom Taylor. He was previously at Home Depot and so he's been around a successful home improvement business before. He knows what it takes and he particularly knows what it takes to win with pro customers. And I think Floor and Decor is doing an increasingly good job at winning over pro business. The primary strategy of growth here is opening new stores. Theoretically, they could essentially double in size in coming years just from the new store build outs. Profits right now aren't as good as they've been in the past, but I'm optimistic that eventually home remodeling, that whole spending industry will pick up and that will provide a boom once again for Floor and Decor profit margins. Right now it trades at just 1.6 times its sales. That is far cheaper than the Home Depot stock. That's the same same valuation as Lowe's. But I think Floor and Decor has the most long term upside and especially at that valuation. I like it.

A (24:52)

Matt John, thanks for sharing your thoughts as always. People on the program may have interest in the stocks they talk about, and the Motley fool may have formal recommendations for our guests. So don't buy or sell stocks based solely on what you hear. All personal finance content follows Motley fool editorial standards and is not approved by advertisers. Advertisements are sponsored content and provided for for informational purposes only. To see our full advertising disclosure, please check out our show notes. Thanks to Dan Boyd for keeping us on schedule for Matt, John and myself. Thanks for listening and we'll chat again.