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Foreign. This week on the Saturday Personal finance edition of Motley Fool Money how to find the Right financial planner for you. I'm Robert Brokamp, and while I suspect that most listeners to our show are partially or entirely do it yourselfers when it comes to managing their money, I also know that many of you would value an occasional independent assessment, investment from a knowledgeable professional, and maybe even a comprehensive financial plan and ongoing relationship. This week I speak with certified financial planner practitioner Hannah Moore about how to find the right pro for what you're looking for. We had a good long conversation, so we're going to devote this entire episode to the interview rally. Fool was founded more than 30 years ago based on the belief that, well, with enough time and education you could manage your own personal finances. While we still believe that, we also acknowledge that not everyone has the time to learn how to become a do it yourself wealth manager Retirement planner Tax expert Estate planner, insurance aficionado. Plus, even if you are the CEO of your own personal finances, you might want to get an objective second opinion from an expert every once in a while just to make sure you're covering all the bases. Here to talk about how to find the right financial professional for you is Hannah Moore, the founder of Amplified Planning, the owner and principal financial planner at Guiding wealth, the recipient of many awards, including Investopedia's Top 100 Financial Advisors in the Nation and Wealth Management's Innovator of the Year in 2024. She's also the creator of the Externship, an excellent summer program for aspiring financial planners and people who want to build their own financial plan. I was fortunate enough to be able to attend the program last summer and registration for this Summer's externship opens April 1st. Hannah, welcome to the show.
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Yes, well thank you so much for having me, Robert.
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Thank you. Let's start with a little bit about you. How did you get into the financial services industry and what led you to start your own firm?
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Absolutely. So I was in college, I didn't even know that this career existed. I was going to go down a non profit management route, realized that wasn't where I wanted to end up. And I had taken an Intro to Personal finance class because I was just really interested in this stuff and the professor recommended that I change my major. So that's kind of how that ship kind of got pointed in this direction. So I got an undergrad degree in it. And then when I was 22 I went out into the workforce and started working for a woman who was 68 four years later I ended up buying her practice, bought another small practice after that and really kind of got thrown into this. And so I don't know that starting my own firm was ever kind of part of the plan, but I quickly adapted to that. That's the starting for how I got here today.
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When I got into financial services industry, same thing, I worked for somebody else for a while, someone I knew was actually my high school English teacher's husb. Been a great way to break into the industry, sort of be taken under someone's wing, especially at that young age. I was around the same age when I got into it. What's your general take on financial planning landscape nowadays? What are the primary choices out there?
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B
Oh, it's a fascinating what's happening within the financial planning landscape. So I graduated in 2008. Great time to be entering into financial services. My first week starting that job with that woman. It was the week the market hit its low. And so I've always joked that with my clients I just had the Midas touch. The market just keeps going up ever since I came around. But yeah, when I think about the financial services industry profession, however we kind of define that it's going through a lot of transformation from 2009 certainly till today and that I've seen in my career and certainly more if we look even more macroly and it's largely transitioning more towards financial planning. And so I think a lot of kind of factors are at play with that. So I think clients financial lives are more complicated. They're not just looking for that investment help. There's so much more that they're looking for. The finances for today are so much more confusing than they were 20 years ago. You know, know. And we can certainly dive more into that. So I think there's a lot of kind of this, this macro shift and we're seeing lots of the large firms embrace this as well, realizing that they have to be leading with financial planning versus just that investment management. On the talking shop a little bit side of it, one of the things that's also been fascinating in our space is a lot of the mid sized firms are getting bought up by these really big companies. And so what we're seeing on the landscape is we're seeing really, really large financial planning companies coming out and, and kind of emerging. And so we're seeing kind of this almost barbell of like more and more small folks are starting up and then we have these really really large firms that are just acquiring. So it's creating kind of an interesting dynamic within this space, especially as we're going to talk about kind of how folks can find a good financial planner.
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Yeah, it's something we've seen in the medical fields where private equity is buying a lot of small practices. And it's happening in the financial planning industry as well.
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Absolutely.
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I have often said that finding the right financial professional really starts with being very clear about what you're looking for. Right. You made the differentiation between investment management, but then financial planning, which is all that other stuff that doesn't necessarily isn't just about your portfolio, but it obviously related to your portfolio. But, you know, are you looking for the whole kit and caboodle or do you just want an analysis of maybe one aspect of your finances? Like, right, just to make sure my retirement planning is on track, for example, my impression is that most advisors are still looking to manage your assets and do the financial planning on the side. Is that still mostly accurate? And how hard is it to find someone who you could just pay by the hour or the project to do one aspect of your finances?
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Yeah. So it's really interesting and you know, from a business model standpoint, having an asset center managed business model is an easier business to run than some of the hourly planning that that's out there. Right. And I think that just makes sense. Right. If you have that reoccurring revenue, you can, you can build systems around that. And I think what we're seeing more. I'll circle back to the hourly piece in a minute. But I think what we're seeing more and more of is as folks are getting the investment management and they're having the aum, they're leading with the financial planning and we're seeing that infiltrate their whole service offering. And so it's less of just people are just doing the investment management and that's all they're doing now. It's really. They're doing the financial planning and the investment management is often how they're getting paid for that work. So we're seeing that more and more. So like certainly all the conferences and things I attend over the years there's been a much more emphasis on how do we up level what we're delivering to clients for kind of what you would say the AUM fee. So they're getting the financial planning as well as the investment management on that. So again, I think that's a trend that we're seeing. Certainly the firms that are retaining their clients, that's what they're doing. There's a pretty direct correlation from where assets are moving, like moving out of one firm into another based upon kind of what are those service offerings that they're having. And we'll, you know, we talked about the externship. We talked to so many people who are coming into the space. They want to be doing more of that financial planning. So we're hearing it from clients. We're also hearing it from the professionals who are joining this field. Like there definitely is an emphasis on this financial planning piece of. But coming back to how do you find somebody who's doing those hourly work? Like I said, it's a harder business model. I think it can be a very good business model. And so what I'm seeing is kind of the space for this is there are some companies that are set up to just do this work. And so those are going to be good options where it's just really an hourly rate fee to find a lot of those places. I mean, they're going to be on the Garrett planning network. They're going to be, you know, when you look up the hourly rates or hourly planning, those are going to be the firms that are going to pop up that are going to be, you know, showing up for that. The other piece I think is really interesting. Especially again, this is not Like a blanket solution for everybody. But I mentioned how we're having this barbell in this field. What we're seeing is a lot of these folks who are working at some of these large financial planning firms who are great planners, who have 15, 20 years of experience, are leaving and starting their own firm, and they're often doing some of this hourly work as they're kind of building up their client base. And so there's a lot of real opportunity. Like, if I was to go out right now to try to find somebody that's kind of one really interesting profile that I would look for in a financial planner is somebody who has kind of the pedigree or who has the experience and just might have a newer firm that they're running. The other piece that I think is really interesting is, you know, so many people. We see it at our firm where people come in like, I just want to get a second opinion on my investments. And when we start looking at this whole picture, they need more help than just their investments. We're looking at, like, you know, they have an estate plan that might be out of date. They're having, you know, we can see this huge tax situation that's emerging for them, or they might have other areas of their financial plan. So it's kind of like going to the doctor and saying, I need you to look at my elbow. But, hey, there's all these other things that, you know, could potentially be wrong as well. So that's not always the case. But I do think that is one of the downsides of being like, hey, I just need, like, this one thing looked at. Because oftentimes that one thing, like, can lead you to be like, oh, there's other things that we need to look at as well. So I would just maybe put a little bit of caution on that of just being like, I just need this one thing reviewed. When oftentimes that one thing is touching so many other things. And so getting that really holistic view can make a big difference.
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Yeah, ideally, that's one of the big benefits. Right? You may. You may think it's only this one thing, but you're going to uncover something that you weren't even thinking about. And that's the benefit of working with someone who has been doing this for a while.
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Or one of my favorites is I see this often, one kind of that CFO of the family, and then they're married to somebody else who might be like, wait, what? What are we talking about here? We see that oftentimes people coming in to get that second look, but also making sure that everybody on the team is on the same page as well.
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Yep, exactly. I mean, that's the way it is in my family. I handle most of the finances. My wife does the bill paying, but doesn't know much about anything else. But certainly as we get older, I have every expectation that we are going to form a relationship with a fee only financial planner. Because I want that professional second opinion, even though I generally know this stuff. But I also want to begin that relationship because if anything happens to me, she already has someone that she trusts ready, waiting in the wings.
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Robert, I can't even tell you how many clients we have that fit that profile. This is so timely. I mean, we literally had somebody pass away on Saturday, like for one of our clients. And it was the same thing. Like, I want to work with a financial planner. So he was great. He knew all of his stuff. But it really was, I want to work with somebody so that when something happens to me, I know that my wife is going to be taken care of. And we get it on both sides too. Like, we have some wives who come to us who's like, my husband doesn't know any of this and that's why I'm going to go work with a financial planner. So it goes on both sides of those. But I think it's a huge, a huge piece that we see people working with a financial planner. I mean, the client, I called her on Friday in the hospital doing all these things and money was not on her mind. She was like, is there anything I need to worry about? I was like, nope, we got it all covered. You're going to be okay. I'll call you next week. And so just to have that relief that that's not a pressure on her life, and then we're going to walk with her every step of the way, you know, in the coming weeks and months.
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Which brings me to the next question, which is there are a lot of people out there who call themselves financial advisors, financial professionals. We at the fool have long recommended that members look for fee only financial planners who are fiduciaries. Is that still generally good advice or any other terms or credentials that people should be looking for?
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Yeah, I completely agree. I wish this space was easier to navigate. You know, I help a lot of people kind of getting into this space, and it's hard for career changers to navigate. Anybody coming into this is the career that they want to navigate, much less for clients to be navigating. So, yeah, I completely agree. The CFP certification That's the gold standard. It really is. What that does is that just proves to you that they have knowledge on all of the areas that could touch your finances. There's going to be various skill set between those CFP professionals, but you know that they've taken the test and they have some of that knowledge. And there's a lot of other designations and degrees and things that are out there, but that one really is just the highest standard that we're going to have. Like you said, asking if they're fiduciaries and then this will show you if this is actually a requirement for them to do that. And there's so many like what is a fiduciary? How do we define this? You know, and that's where I think it really gets down to some of the more in depth questions. Like if I was to go find a financial planner, I would really be asking about what is their process? Like what does it look like, what are the documents that you're going to be looking at? What are you going to be doing behind the scenes? Because what you don't want is to go and pay for somebody and they're just going to go run your portfolio through an AI something or other and give you out that report. What does that process actually look like? The good planners out there will be able to articulate that and hopefully it'll really connect with folks of looking at that, getting clarity on what is that true process. Because some firms are fiduciaries and only do investment management and some, you know, do the full financial planning in a free fiduciaries. Like there's a whole spectrum that that's within there. And so I think just in the interview process, getting really clear on what is their process, what does it look like to work with them.
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You mentioned the Garrett Planning Network is a place to find some of these folks. Founded by Cheryl Garrett, one of my personal heroes in the financial planning industry.
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She's amazing.
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Amazing. Any other places where people should look or maybe professionals they should talk to for referrals, anything like that?
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Yeah, so you know, there's a number of directories. So there's like if you're looking for fee only. Right. Cause that kind of segments it down even more. So Garrett Planning is a big one, Napa is a big one. Where you're going to kind of find that segment, if you will. And you know, one of the other best recommendations is asking people in your network of who do they use, who do they like, who do they trust? Right. What does that look like? Especially if your situation is similar to theirs. That's one of the things that we, we find often we're looking for advice. I mean, we've got a number of clients who are like, I looked around, I was like, I want to be like them. And I just asked them who their financial planner was. Right. Like there's a lot of that. Was it birds of a feather that that matters. Right. So that can be another way of doing it. And then you could fact check it. Right. Like, go back and be like, hey, do they meet these criteria? I will say there are some great planners who cannot call themselves fee only because of where they're kind of affiliated with, but operate as fee only planners. So that's again, not to muddy the waters at all, but that's really where getting like to, are you going to be selling me product? If so, like, what does that look like? Really asking about that process can make a big difference.
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Yeah. And just to be clear about the fee only and how you're paid. Right. Fee only means basically the money is coming from the client and it can be AUM. 1% of your portfolio can be by the hour, by the project. Whereas the other folks, they could be fee based or just purely commission, which I know people in the financial planning industry who do charge by the commission and they're good people. But you always are always just curious, like, are you recommending the best thing for me or are you recommending the best thing that generates the biggest commission for you?
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I worked at a place before I started my RA where I was an advisor there. And so there are a lot of, you know, legacy clients that we had and all these different things that we didn't want to, you know, get out. So I couldn't call myself Fee Only, but you can still charge like a fee only. But again, it just depends you have the ability to do it. Whereas where I'm at now, like, I can't sell commissions, I will get hammered on an audit if I do that. Like, there's actual like implications for me if I do that. But yeah, no, I think that's spot on. It goes to this question of who can you trust and like what you're saying. I mean, this field is like, it's hard because it is. This is such an intimate thing to be working with somebody's money and their finances and knowing that you have somebody that you can trust, like that is the most important piece.
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A
You mentioned that when you talk to someone, you should ask about their process. And generally speaking, when you identify a prospective financial planner, they'll meet with you for a half hour or so just to make sure that you're both on the same page. And by the way, they're interviewing you as well because they want to know whether you're the type of client they want to work with. So, you know, you want to ask about the process, you want to ask how you're going to get paid, any other questions people should ask or any red flags that people should be on the lookout for?
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Yeah, I'd say trust your instincts. This is going to be one, you know, and if you're in a relationship, make sure both people are there and just be like, did it feel good? Like, you know how sometimes you're just like, ooh, something just is off? Like, trust that instinct. I think that's the first piece. You know, one thing that I also like to look at when I'm looking at, you know, financial planners and how do we vet people? I do think it's important that they're connected to some network, some group that they can connect with other advisors. You know, I've trained a lot of advisors, and, you know, I've really seen how important it is that advisors get resources from other advisors and how important that network is. So if I was to go find a financial planner today for myself, I would want to see them involved with Napa, fpa, cfp, something that I'm seeing that they're not just a lone wolf out there. I want to see that they're, they're connected and that they have the resources. Because inevitably, whether it's you or somebody else, they're going to get cases where they're just like, what is going on with this? And they're going to need more resources. And to know that they have that network, it just really, I think it elevates that experience that, that it brings to clients.
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A
Just to clarify, on the couple of the acronyms there, NAPFA is National association of Personal Financial Advisors. FPA is the Financial Planning Association. And that basically means, you know, this is someone who really wants to keep learning about the industry. Yeah, same with the CFP designation. You know, this is someone who's taken the time to be like, I want to be at the top of my game. By the way, to be a cfp, you do need some experience which you can get through the externship. So that's something to keep in mind if you're interested. And the other thing I found most astounding about the externship when I participated is that there are so many people in the financial planning industry serving a particular area. Right. It could be immigrants, it could be people with children with special needs. It could be people right before retirement. It could be people in retirement. So I guess that gets back, back to the whole finding like the birds of a feather flock together. You want to look for someone who has dealt with people in your situation because they know the type of things you're going through.
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Yep. Well, and I think this is really where, like, this is where I hope this is my aspiration for this field. Right. That if somebody comes to me and they're like, oh, it's not a good fit for me that I would know the person to send them to. Right. Because you're absolutely right that there's so much nuance that goes, you know, into financial planning and the unique considerations that they have to have somebody who has experience in that. I mean, I'm a working mom with three small kids. I run two businesses. Like, there's a lot of nuance. And to be able to work with somebody who understands that is really, really powerful.
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Thoughts on finding and hiring the right financial professional.
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Finding the right person can make all of the difference. You know, if you're like, my guy's fine, like, it's fine. Yes. Right. Like, I mean, you can go to the doctor and have a fine doctor. Right. But if you go, like, there's so many great people out there, especially people who are starting out. I mean, we're training a lot of them right now. They're so impressive. Um, but finding the right person for both, if you're married, you and your spouse can make such a difference. It can give you a level of confidence and peace of mind that, I mean, we hear from clients they didn't know. They're like, oh, I didn't even know this could be this good. And so really, just taking the time to find the right person can make a huge difference. And it really is worth kind of the energy and the work that it can take to, to find them. And if you don't get the right one, like, keep looking. Like, I promise you, there's some amazing, amazing planners out there who are, who are honestly looking for clients and trying to figure out, like, why can't I find clients? Oftentimes it is just kind of that matching of that that needs to happen.
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Well, if any of this talk about financial planning has made you. Dear podcast listener, think about it as a career. You're in luck because Hannah will be back for our April 11 episode to talk about the externship she offers at Amplify Planning and how to get started as a financial planner. But until then, Hannah, thanks for joining us.
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B
Yes, thank you so much for having me.
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A
And that, my foolish friends, is the show. Thanks for spending part of your weekend with us. And thanks, as always, to Bart Shannon, the engineer for this episode. People on the program may have interest in the investments they talk about, and the Motley fool may have formal recommendations for or against. So don't buy or sell investments based solely on what you hear. All personal finance content follows Motley fool editorial standards. It is not approved by advertisers. Advertisements are sponsored content and provides for informational purposes only. To see our full advertising disclosure, please check out our show notes. I'm Robert Brokamp. Fool on, everybody.