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Need of an app store. Molly. Fool Money starts now. Welcome to Motley Fool Money. I'm Travis Hoyam, joined by Lou Weitman and Rachel Warren. Got to get to the big news of the week. We've got a couple of days to process this. That is OpenAI introducing apps. They have tried some of these things before, plugins, custom GPTs to varying levels of success, but obviously they were going in a different direction now. But this was, I thought, a really interesting announcement because the vision here is a lot bigger than just being an AI tool. It's kind of being the operating system of your life, if you will. There are companies involved who are willingly, you know, kind of building apps. Companies like Zillow, Expedia, booking.com. rachel, what are you taking away from this and what should investors know about OpenAI's move into apps? It's not quite an app store, but they are making apps.
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Yeah, it's, it's interesting and I think it's, you can see how a lot of the efforts that they have leveraged in the past maybe have led them to this point. You know, I want to talk a little bit about how this app store works and why. I also do think this could be really different from what we've seen in OpenAI in the past. You know, their app store is this new platform. It's integrated directly within ChatGPT and it basically allows users to interact with third party apps using conversational natural language. So for instance, you could ask ChatGPT to create a playlist with Spotify or find houses for sale with Zillow and then those apps are activated from directly within the ChatGPT conversation. So instead of having to leave the chat to use another service, those apps run directly in the thread. So I think the idea is to simplify, right, the user experience. And at launch, I mean, they're partnering with some really big companies. I mean Spotify, booking.com, owned by booking Holdings, Expedia, Zillow, Figma, which is newly public, as well as private companies like Canva. And I think it's interesting to note their past attempts like plugins that you alluded to, these had been kind of limited text based access. They were really kind of rigid invite only systems for developers. That chat interface, interface was really cumbersome and importantly, monetization wasn't really a core feature there. Now these new apps I think are very much designed to be a funnel towards monetization where OpenAI could make money from more of a revenue sharing model. So it's really interesting to see what they're doing with this.
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Yeah. Lou, is this the way that we're going to be using AI in the future? The vision here, I think is kind of look on an iPhone or something like, or another smartphone, you're going to download apps and then you're going to actually interact with the app. You're not really calling them from something like Siri, but this is sort of the taking that to the next level and going, hey, you know, Zillow, why don't you just build for this AI chatbot and we'll just kind of call your information. Is that the way that we're going to go in the future?
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Maybe. I mean, I will say this. If it works as good as the demo, it's gold. But I've learned, I think we've all learned not to just kind of buy the demo. What I worry about here is there's a garbage in, garbage out problem, I think, because, you know, these AI isn't actually smart. It's just trained on data and just to pick on one Zillow, their walkability score is the biggest. I mean, I shouldn't call it garbage, so I'll just call it subpar. You know, you can't actually know whether or not a house has. You can walk around it from the walkability score. So in the example of give me a house that's I can walk to restaurants from. If it's based on the Zillow walkability score, I think it's going to be sub human responses. I think there's a trillion of these problems to be worked out and I think there's all sorts of questions that we can get to later about walled gardens versus everybody there and how you make this work. To me, I want to get excited. It looks really good on paper, but I wonder if this is one of these things that's always going to look better on paper than it is in real world execution.
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According to some interviews by Sam Altman in the past couple of days, the vision here is bigger and it will all make sense in a few months. So maybe we need to kind of hold a little bit on what the full vision is. But I think what was interesting with these apps and one of the reasons that this is pertinent to us as investors, I think is from a disruption angle. If you think about the biggest disruptions, are moving to a different technology paradigm. So the PC, you have opportunity and disruption. The Internet, opportunity, disruption, mobile devices, same thing. If Chachi PT kind of becomes the way that we interact with technology now you don't have Zillow as an aggregator, you don't have booking.com, and as an aggregator, you have. ChatGPT is the in the power position. And Altman even said, you know, we, we could have just gone out and called all the information that Zillow was calling, but we wanted to work with these partners that, like, he's being some kind of philanthropist with the technology. But this is, I think, a risk for companies is if you're losing that direct customer relationship and you're giving it to ChatGPT, is this a good thing even if you're partnering with the leading AI company today?
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Lou, there's so much here, so much to unpack. For one, the big thing is, before we even get into the brands, it's Privacy. You know, OpenAI has a ton of data. Can OpenAI just kind of wring off my wanting to book a trip without telling every other partner they have, hey, Lou's going to be in Toronto next week. Why don't you sell him stuff, things like that? So there's all sorts of. Just on that layer. I sort of like only Expedia knowing if I'm going, if I'm going to Toronto. But the bigger thing here, this whole idea of the, the OpenAI as the new windows, Windows became windows because it worked with everything. You know, it was just, you know, that was it. It was whatever you wanted to build, you could do. There's a chicken or the egg problem here. You need customers. You need a ton of customers to attract every retailer to come on board or every website to come on board, but you need retailers to lure the customers. So, you know, in theory, yes, there is a perfect world here where it's just, I go to my OpenAI and that's all I ever need. But how we get there is a bear.
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Yeah, Rachel, this does seem like an area where it's possible for disruption if this vision works. But it's pretty unclear exactly how this is going to play out, given the massive size of this vision, not only from a technology standpoint, but also from a financial standpoint.
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Yeah. And I want to stress that I think there's room for multiple winners here. I don't think OpenAI comes in and that standard business model from some of these flagship players just goes out the window. And as you noted, it's very early days. We're still waiting to see how exactly is OpenAI going to monetize this? Are consumers going to adopt this at a broad scale? But I do think it is interesting to look at the bare thesis for a minute, right, like who could face disruption here if this type of platform ecosystem really takes off. And obviously the most significant disruption, which is what you alluded to, would be companies whose core business is sort of providing a user interface for specific tasks. You could think about how Apple, Alphabets, Google, Microsoft, which obviously control their respective ecosystems, could face market threats. Of course there's other companies. You think of the Adobes and Salesforces of the world. They're already experiencing, you know, some market skepticism amidst the AI revolution. Then there's, you know, the traditional search engine business, which of course is dominated by Google. Could that be disrupted? You know, OpenAI's approach has been sort of to collapse the the search to convert process and that could again allow in this new app store users to interact with services directly within ChatGPT. You know, you could even think about how companies like Uber or DoorDash who have really built their value on having users interact their specific app to book a service, could face some threats. But I don't think the actual reality is going to be this bleak. I mean, honestly, I think more likely than not, if this new use case for AI succeeds, we'll probably see consumers adopt it as one other tool in their vast toolkit. In the digital age. I don't think strong companies with robust competitive advantages are going anywhere. And if anything, maybe they can use this type of tool to play to their strengths. If they execute it right, we're going.
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To talk about that potential. Widening the Funnel in just a moment. You're listening to Motley Fool Money introducing.
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See dell.com for details at Widening the funnel for some of these applications. So some that were announced as apps that are coming soon. Peloton, DoorDash, Target. It is possible that ChatGPT allows more customers to interact with these applications than they had previously. You know, if you're not somebody who has downloaded the Peloton app and signed up for Peloton, you don't have access to that. Same thing with Target. Maybe you don't shop at Target, but maybe just having a conversation with ChatGPT is a good way for them to broaden out and get more customers. So is that possible that some of these applications at least, are going to see this as a way to bring more customers to them? So it's an opportunity instead of a threat? Rachel, because I, I think there's always two sides to the coin here. And one of the things we're going to, we're going to talk about in a minute is how in the world does ChatGPT make money? Well, if you have a business that makes money and your problem is customer acquisition, maybe ChatGPT answers this for you.
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Yeah, I do think it could widen the funnel. And I also think an important point to make is, I mean, you see all of these major companies that are kind of onboarding in the very early launch of this store. I don't think these companies would be coming to the table with OpenAI if they thought this was just going to cannibalize their business. I think they see this as an opportunity.
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And it also, usually the way that disruption works, to be fair, is you see it Disney, Disney sold their content to Netflix and basically armed the rebels.
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But I do, I mean, to play the bull case here, I do think that a lot of these companies and others might view this integration into the OpenAI app ecosystem as an opportunity to widen their user funnel. You know, the thing is, I mean, AI can commodit very basic functions, but I think these companies are thinking that they can leverage OpenAI's platform to maybe deliver more integrated, personalized or even efficient experiences that would draw users back to their core services and data. So you can actually take Zillow as an example, which Lou was talking about earlier. So say a user uses ChatGPT to find homes near a certain location. But let's say they want to get the zestimate valuations, they want to view the 3D virtual tours, they want to connect with a Zillow Premier agent. They have to then go back to that app ecosystem. So that could make them more of a gateway, right, to some of that high value data. And that's just one example. So I do think There could be a competitive opportunity for companies that play this. Right. I just think it's too soon to know for sure what this is going to look like. I think it's also fair to say, to your point, Travis, I mean, there might be companies that are onboarding to this because they fear getting left behind. That's also potentially a factor at play.
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Well, so two thoughts here. I mean, for one, the idea of, like, so I'm not a peloton customer, I maybe put in something in OpenAI, like, how can I get in shape? And then am I going to get spammed with peloton? I mean, I mean, again, yeah, this.
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Is the devil in detail, right?
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Exactly. Well, and I keep going back to this because again, this, this all just rings as something that sounds so much better on stage than it does in execution. I'll give you another example of this. Who is the gatekeeper here? Booking and Expedia are both partners right now, right? If I want to fly to Minnesota, who gets that business? And who decides that? Is that a competitive auction thing? Because if it is and it gets expensive, I don't know.
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Well, as it works right now, you would have to specifically call booking.com. yeah. In ChatGPT. So then.
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But if you do that, you're not broadening the funnel. I'm already a relationship. If DoorDash and Instacart are both in this system, and one day I say, I need milk. How does that work? You know, I mean, it's just, there's a lot of ways that, yes, in theory, if they can work all of this out, it is intriguing. But there is sort of, there's all sorts of a kind of. I, I keep thinking that meme, you know, where it's like, step one, do this, step two, three or four is blank, and step five is profit. There's a lot of, like, blanks in that middle right now. As far as figuring out the economics here, who gets paid what and. And how it all works out, I get the vision. I'm just, I, I just keep coming back to these execution things and wondering.
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Well, that's a question I think we should dive into a little bit. Is, Is this a 10x improvement? The concept for a lot of disruptions in moving people from what they're doing today to doing something else is that it has to be 10 times better. So if you go back to the advent of the PC, right, you're moving from your, from doing math, for example, on paper, to doing it on a computer, way easier. You know, the Internet now suddenly the encyclopedias that we had at home are you can just find all that information online mobile devices now that all that information is just in your pocket. All these are easily 10x improvements is going to one app. And this is where maybe we'll find out more about what the hardware future for OpenAI looks like over the next couple of months. But I do think that is a question Lou is, is this the kind of improvement in our lives that is going to necessitate us actually adopting OpenAI as our do everything application instead of the way that we're doing things today?
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Yeah, and another point on this, if we get into retail in a second we can do more. But look, I don't, most shopping is not as exciting as what these presentations would say. I mean most shopping is I need a gallon of milk. I need something it's not, I want to explore new fashion trends or you know, like so I mean I, I don't know if again that we need a killer app for all of this. And, and again I, I, I see the, I see the use case, I see the concept, the execution, the, just the, the actual day to day implementation for us normies. I don't know, I, I don't know how you get there.
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Let's talk about one of those dark horses. Rachel. I thought it was interesting that Target was listed as one of their apps of these other companies is a tech company. I guess, you know all trails would be maybe not quite as much of a tech company but there you have a retailer that's sort of struggling right in, in the big box retail space. Maybe this is a way to attract some new customers. So it could there be some dark horses here where you kind of extend the long we've gone especially in retail. I think that's maybe the most, the best example is that Amazon has kind of sucked all the oxygen of the room because you choose to go to the Amazon app. Well Amazon, guess what, they don't want to be on ChatGPT and be disaggregated. So does that present an opportunity for companies that can, like you said earlier, go hey, I'm not only not going to be left behind, but I'm going to take advantage of this because I don't have the same digital footprint as a company like Amazon.
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I do think there's an opportunity there for companies like Target that are sort of more the classic brick and mortar that also have a strong online presence and others. But I think a lot of the utility of this goes back to how useful it is to the consumer. You know, I think the core idea here is that if you are, say, shopping, you're on ChatGPT. Rather than having to go and open up a series of different apps to find the things you want, you can, you know, tell ChatGPT to open up a specific app and search for the thing that you want within that user interface. And I do think that's something that is kind of compelling, you know, to a consumer, particularly those of us who are, you know, on our phones, on our devices a lot. You know, for Target's part, as you mentioned, they've had a very rough few years, particularly coming out of the pandemic, as well as a host of other issues that have been very specific to them. And they have also been, I think, very much adopting a lot of different AI tools into their overall business. They already use generative AI, for example, to improve a lot of their product display pages on their website. They had last year introduced a proprietary generative AI chatbot for store employees called Store Companion. And I do think they could use some of that standoff ad attitude that Amazon has leveraged in the past and instead really focus on key areas where they can build competitive differentiation. So I do think that could provide a seamless, more personalized experience. Does this save a company like Target from some of its current woes? No. But does it provide perhaps a more unified ecosystem that gets more eyeballs to its platform from users? I think that's possible.
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Second, I don't want to pick on Target here because I enjoy Target, but Target is a destination for pragmatists, not for dreamers. And I don't know, back to my other point, you know, I mean, Target is where you go when you need dog food or toilet paper or something. And I don't know if I need an AI customized experience for that. And I'm not sure I'm ever going to be like, you know, I'm hunting for some nice gift from my wife.
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Some of us ladies are at Target dreaming as we walk through the aisles. Lou, you have no idea.
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Maybe, maybe so, but I just, I don't know, you know, I mean, I like their curbside drop off and delivery. I think they've done good things. Again, I going back to this and I hate to be such a wet blanket, but it feels like a solution in search of a problem for Target here.
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Well, we'll see. I have to see how this plays out. And as this vision rolls out, especially with potentially new devices, maybe that will change the game. Next we're going to ask the trillion dollar question, and that is how in the world does OpenAI and all of their partners pay for this? You're listening to Motley Fool Money.
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This is a huge opportunity.
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We're spending millions of dollars.
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May the best idea win on Brand.
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With Jimmy Fallon tonight on NBC.
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Welcome back to Motley Fool Money. Look, here's the trillion dollar question for OpenAI. They're through all their partners spending somewhere around a trillion dollars, probably more than that at this point. How are they going to pay for all this? And are these apps going to be part of that solution? If you squint, you can kind of see a monetization strategy, but it's not really clear yet. Lou. So is this going to be the key to the future of OpenAI becoming that company that can pay for tens of billions of dollars of compute each year?
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So, Travis, let's be clear here. Sam Altman says he's focused on the customer experience and not monetization. So, you know, obviously. Yeah, but, Right, but, but I, I do think back to a point you made about like, you know, is this a leap, step forward or incremental? And how do you get, how do you turn this into a big money maker if it is incremental that. I come back to the chicken and the egg question. If you want to make money off of the consumer signing up for premium Open AI, you darn well better have a lot of retailers, a lot of partners. But how do you get those retailers and partners if you don't, you know, if you don't have a lot of people signed up? So there is experimentation, maybe there's loss. That's why you focus on the customer experience. Now, again, are we headed to walled gardens? Am I really going to want to use this if I can get Target.
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But not, it seems like that's what OpenAI wants to build, even though they're saying that's not what they want to build.
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Right. Well, I mean, by default, I mean, no, I think OpenAI would like to be so present everywhere that every retailer just has to be on it the way every retailer is. But right now I can get a Google search and see the world, world until, I mean, Maybe there is just a specialized thing like, oh, I want to use booking and I know booking is on here and I like the interaction so I will opt in that way. But that's not the way to riches. I think there's again, just if this becomes an open field where everything's involved like Google, I don't know if OpenAI has the advantage there. I don't know if, you know, if commoditization is their friend and if it becomes harder to charge on the back end. So that's, I think, why they would like just partners opting in. But I think that just makes it harder to get consumer adoption. I think it's really, really hard to make this payoff in a big way. It could be a side feature, but this is not a core business here for the, for the way they're spending.
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What do you think, Rachel? Is this, is this the preview of how they're going to make money and is it big enough?
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I think it's way too early to say. I think honestly OpenAI is trying to figure out their monetization strategy at point. I think that's fairly obvious. I mean, you think about some of their most advanced models like Sora, the huge challenge there, I mean, training and running those models, that requires enormous investment in computing power, data centers. And now you have the new App Store and the goal seemingly is to take a commission on sales right, from commerce Queries rather than maybe relying on that traditional ad system. I saw one report that suggested there could be something like a 2% affiliate fee in the works. And then you've got of course, this very high investment Sora product and they're reportedly moving towards a tiered subscription model.
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Now a 2% affiliate fee sounds like a lot, but if you look at how much companies spend on things like meta ads, it's significantly more than that. The customer acquisition cost can be 20, 30% of a purchase price.
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Right. And so that's where you look at all this and you kind of dig beneath the surface a bit. And it's still really unclear how much of a revenue producing venture are these, these, you know, new initiatives going to be much less, you know, driving the company towards profitability. I mean, obviously the most significant and kind of immediate source of revenue is likely to be enterprise partnerships and they do continue to raise massive funding rounds. I think they're working on their monetization strategy and they're seeing what sticks. And I think that's really important to take away from all these recent announcements that we've been seeing.
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I think one filter to kind of just as you look at all this, remember OpenAI needs this more than their rivals. Meta has that fire hose of revenue coming in to fund this. Alphabet has Google funding this. OpenAI is the one here as an official non profit that A isn't they aren't sort of subject to the same SEC rules so they can do more the Silicon Valley fake it till you make it. And I don't mean that as a against them I think as they should but also that's worked right. And that should be their strategy. But also they need to be saying look at us, look at what we're doing. So yeah, I mean it's a neat vision of the future. I don't think it's a slam dunk. They get there. But I think just as I look at this, it looks like a company that is sort of wishcasting as much as they are implementing. And part of wish caching is like you say Travis, see what happens and stick with what works.
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I have heard it said that they have to keep spending because if they they fall behind, they're they're done. They can't. They they have to keep up with the Alphabets, the Metas, everybody that's investing tens of billions of dollars. So that's why this vision keeps getting bigger. Maybe there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, but we will see. As always, people on the program may have interest in the stocks they talk about and the Motley fool may have formal recommendations for or against. So don't buy or sell stocks based solely on what you hear. All personal finance concepts. Content follows the Motley Fool's editorial standards and is not approved by advertisers. Advertisements are sponsored content provided for informational purposes only. To see our full advertising disclosure, please check out our show notes for Lou Whiteman, Rachel Warren, Dan Boyd, behind the glass and our entire Motley fool team. I'm Travis Hoyam. Thanks for listening to Motley Fool Money. We'll see you here tomorrow.