EP 83 WV Legislative wrap up

Summary

Mountain State Libertycast – EP 83: WV Legislative Wrap Up (March 18, 2026)

Host: Ty Ward
Guest: Taylor Mark Levin
Produced by: Libertarian Party of West Virginia

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Ty Ward and Taylor Mark Levin dig into the 2026 West Virginia legislative session, dissecting its wins, failures, and underlying philosophy through an unapologetically Libertarian lens. The duo spotlight high-profile bills, fiscal machinations, culture war tangents, and the regional nuances shaping West Virginia politics today. True to form, their rapport blends witty irreverence with substantive policy critique, punctuated by memorable rants, inside jokes, and the kind of black-pilled realism that marks the modern liberty movement.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Political Media Personalities and the State of Conservatism

• Mark Levin, Trump, and Conservative Litmus Tests (00:00–04:00)

  • Ty and Taylor riff on the rise of Mark Levin and the recent MAGA litmus test, drawing parallels to Rush Limbaugh and other conservative talkers.
  • Quote (Ty, 01:54):
    “He’s like, whatever evolved-form Pokémon Ben Shapiro is—just one big melting pot of horrible shrill-voiced conservatives.”
  • Trump’s increasingly erratic rhetoric is lampooned, including his claims about wars started by Obama and Biden, and the ongoing confusion in foreign policy.

• Comic Relief: Trump’s War Talk, the “Strait of Hermuz/Hermuth” (03:21–05:26)

  • Ty relishes mimicking Trump’s chaotic expressions:
    “Put down the Diet Coke and hit the sack, ‘cause you are done.” (Ty, 04:12)

2. Legislative Process and Session Wrap-Up

• On “Sine Die” and Legislative Lexicon (07:14–08:52)
  • Ty criticizes the use of terminology like “sine die” and the performative end-of-session photo-ops.
  • Taylor defines the term for listeners (“without a future date scheduled”), and the pair poke fun at legislative elitism.
  • Quote (Ty, 08:31):
    “We didn’t understand that the end of it meant the end of it... No, we’re gonna use some crazy word nobody knows. Good job, guys. Way to go, elites.”

3. Tax Cuts, Bureaucracy, and Real Reform

• Governor's Wins: Tax Cuts, Economic Programs, and Paring Down Boards (09:17–12:33)

  • Ty summarizes the Governor’s press conference: main “win” was a 5% income tax cut (rather than the sought-after 10%); other moves included economic development grants and reforms to employee insurance plans.
  • Taylor questions the actual fiscal impact of eliminating state boards:
    “I’m taking the Ty Ward black pill approach on this government action here.”

• Evaluation of Agency Audits and the Illusion of Savings (12:33–14:38)

  • Ty and Taylor see little substantive reduction in government waste. Ty expresses frustration with the lack of follow-through on agency audits and a return to “steam shovel ready government.”

4. Key Legislation: Libertarian and Liberty-Adjacent Victories

• Constitutional Carry for 18- to 21-Year-Olds (14:38–16:17)

  • “Probably the biggest win for Libertarians,” notes Taylor. Awaiting the governor’s signature but passed both houses.

• Hope Scholarship Program Timings (16:17–17:38)

  • Funding revised to quarterly payments, providing advocates some comfort but with caveats—part is funded from projected surpluses, which Ty critiques as budgetary sleights of hand.

• The Surplus Game and Flat Budget Claims (17:38–19:39)

  • Both highlight West Virginia’s pattern of underprojecting revenues to boast about budget surpluses, allowing for last-minute “surplus spending” that undermines claims of a flat budget.

5. Economic Development & Crony Capitalism: Teams WV and Nucor

• The Demise of "Teams WV" and the Problem with Economic Development Nonprofits (19:39–29:10)

  • The House’s signature “Teams WV” bill died in the Senate—intended to create a powerful nonprofit body for state economic development, theoretically free from political influence.
  • Taylor and Ty are skeptical:
    “It was so annoying just to listen to... like you guys are bootlegging or something.” (Taylor, 22:28)
  • Strong critique of the redundancy with the WV Department of Commerce and privatizing public functions through quasi-shadowy nonprofits.

• Corporate Welfare, ROI, and Free Market Counterexamples (29:10–36:54)

  • Ty contrasts $300M in public funds for 1,000 Nucor jobs versus 650 jobs created organically by local hardware/feed chain “Greens” after tax cuts, with zero state money.
  • Quote (Ty, 31:06):
    “$300 million spent for a thousand jobs where... I guarantee you they're not going to be six-figure salaries for all thousand employees.”
  • Taylor: “At what cost?”—critiques the logic of per-job state spending.

6. Bureaucracy in the Name of Less Bureaucracy

• New Government Units to "Help" Business... Navigate Government (36:54–39:17)

  • Ty flags a new office to help businesses “navigate state regulation”—missing the low-hanging fruit of simply streamlining red tape.

• Taylor's Take:
  “It epitomizes... this Republican supermajority can stand up behind a podium and brag about that and not see the poetic irony of that.”

7. Industry-Specific Cronyism and Data Centers Debate

• On the Unintended Consequences of Subsidy-Driven "Growth" (39:39–43:06)

  • Ty rails against “conservative” leaders condescending constituents and ignoring West Virginia's history with extractive industries—coal’s legacy as a cautionary tale for today’s data center giveaways.
  • “That’s how coal got successful in this state. What they’re doing with data centers…like we gave coal literally the farm. They used and abused this state and disappeared.”

• Data Center Legislation, Property Rights, Local Control (43:06–56:57)

  • Ty and Taylor parse competing libertarian and populist arguments about high-impact data centers—balancing free markets, property rights, community vetoes, and environmental harm.

  • They agree: property rights are paramount, but it’s valid for communities to have a say over shared resources like water.

  • Taylor: “Local control…can be a buzzword that basically just means county commissions can come in and veto what folks are doing with their private property.”

  • Ty on water usage: “You are now affecting everyone else forever, whatever they do to that river…people in that community…have a say.”

  • Debate: Is it libertarian to let counties restrict data centers’ water use? Both side with pragmatic localism under current realities, while lamenting the failures of WV civil courts to make property owners whole against industry.

8. Zoning, Strip Clubs, and Libertarian Purity Tests—Pragmatism vs. Principle

• Philosophical Roundtable: Where Should Libertarians Draw the Line? (56:57–65:31)

  • Ty and Taylor explore tricky questions of zoning (e.g. strip clubs vs. churches), balancing local democracy and pure property rights philosophy.
  • Taylor:
    “…when you allow those things to happen around morality, like strip clubs and churches, then you also give the same ability…to weaponize government against businesses that they don’t want.”
  • Ty admits: “Libertarian purity test—it’s a great philosophy, but if you want to have a functioning society, you have to give a little bit.”

• Local Business vs. Chains—A Coffee Shop Tangent (65:19–66:51)

  • Humorous aside as Ty and Taylor banter about the merits of local coffee (Chocolate Moose) vs. Starbucks or McDonald’s, with jabs at “basic” tastes.

9. Party Notes & Closing Announcements (67:59–69:44)

• Housekeeping and Upcoming LPWV Business
  • New regional rep Mike Macy announced for the Charleston/Hurricane area.
  • Teasers for upcoming episodes, party outreach, and recruitment efforts.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On the Governor’s Reforms:
  “I just don’t think he did anything substantial that’s going to save taxpayers any dollars because there’s a few less of these meetings.” (Taylor, 11:05)

• On Flat Budgets:
  “They’re bragging about higher-than-projected revenue gains every single month…they lowball their estimates…what does that even really mean?” (Ty, 18:42)

• On Corporate Subsidies:
  “Is this how America became the greatest power in the world—by crony capitalism and investing billions of taxpayer dollars into enticing companies so they can laugh in their boardrooms?” (Ty, 40:07)

• Philosophical Zinger:
  “Just let the free market decide, folks. It might not be as quick and as flashy…but you know what? When we spend tens of millions of dollars to get to the point to announce those deals, and then 75% fall flat… I’d rather the slow, methodical approach.” (Taylor, 28:06)

• On Government “Help” for Business:
  “Instead of cutting government, they’ve created an entire department to help you navigate the government.” (Ty, 36:54)

• On Water Rights and Data Centers:
  “When you’re taking water from the river, you are now affecting everyone else forever…that’s how this all works.” (Ty, 49:16)

• Final Libertarian Slogan:
  “Don’t hurt people and don’t take their stuff.” (Ty, 69:44)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:00–04:00: Political talk radio and conservative personalities
• 07:14–09:07: Sine die, session wrap-up, legislative lingo
• 09:17–14:38: Governor’s press conference, tax cuts, bureaucracy
• 14:38–16:17: Constitutional carry for young adults
• 16:17–19:39: Hope Scholarship/flat budget/surplus structure
• 19:39–29:10: Teams WV, economic nonprofits, government duplication
• 29:10–36:54: Corporate welfare, Nucor vs. free market job growth
• 36:54–39:17: New business-navigating bureaucracy
• 39:39–43:06: History of WV crony capitalism, warnings on data
• 43:06–56:57: Data center legislation, property rights, localism
• 56:57–65:31: Zoning, libertarian pragmatism, coffee shop digression
• 67:59–69:44: LPWV announcements, podcast wrap

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a rollicking, comprehensive look at the 2026 West Virginia legislative session, filtered through Libertarian skepticism and regional wit. Ty and Taylor blend humor, detailed policy knowledge, and a populist challenge to both left and right, making “Mountain State Libertycast” a must-listen for mountain-state politicos and liberty lovers alike.

Transcript

[Ty Ward]

Ty Ward. Joining me today is Taylor Mark Levin, Richmond. Taylor is full maga.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Did you, did you see me comment on my, my own father's post about Mark Levin? Is that what you're calling.

[Ty Ward]

No, I just saw that this morning as I was scrolling the Internet that Trump said that you're not, you can't be MAGA if you don't support Mark Levin. And that's just where we are right now. So.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Well, the litmus test is tough.

[Ty Ward]

Yeah, I don't know. I, I don't here's the thing, too. You probably, you're again, as you say, a recovering Republican and your family probably listened to like Rush Limbaugh and stuff, but I never really ran in those circles. So, I mean, I, I remember Rush Limbaugh and I listened to, I heard, I know his thing, but I had never heard of Mark Levin until all this Israel stuff started going on. And so I don't know if he has always been like a name. But yeah, he's around.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

He's been around. He wasn't big enough like the Major. I mean, he was syndicated in certain areas. Right. So I think he's just outlasted some of the, I mean, literally some of the other names as Fox has, you know, dumped folks for their foreign policy positions like Tucker and, and Megan and others. So, yeah, I was not a big Mark Levin guy. I was a Neil Bortz guy for those who recognize that name. He was the one who pushed the fair Tax and that really kind of got me into, you know, just rethinking how government operates and why they do what they do and the taxation is theft. But it went Neil Bortz rolled into Poppy Kerchief, always rolled into Rush Limbaugh. At least that was the, the schedule down in, in Beckley growing up.

[Ty Ward]

Interesting. Yeah. Because I don't know, the more I the only again, I'm first being introduced to Mark Levin and listening to some of the clips I hear on podcasts in his longer form. I've not listened to an episode, but I've, you know, come across some clips that are a little bit longer form. I feel like he might be like the, I don't really know much. I don't remember any Pokemon names. His joke isn't going to land as well, but he's like, whatever evolved form Pokemon. Ben Shapiro is like, I get that same vibe like, and all of these communist Nazis that are talking about Tucker Carlson and then Ben Shapiro's over there, you know, chastising his own staff, saying, you know, you have to say that Candace Owens is evil for criticizing Erica Kirk. And I'm like, is this just one big, like melting pot of horrible shrill voiced conservatives? So yeah, I just thought that was interesting coming across that this morning that Trump seems to be unraveling. And I also saw another post from his. Since we're just, you know, talking about this, you know, with some candor, Trump, he tweeted or truth truthed. I'm gathering my thoughts. I can't even remember. I just lost what the. His. He has so many weird things that he says and it. They're coming at us quick. So I can't rem which one it was, but. Oh, the war. He said.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Oh, yeah, that's like this war.

[Ty Ward]

This war was started by Barack Hussein Obama and Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

It was started 47 years ago

[Ty Ward]

and sleepy poopy pants Joe Biden and we've been fighting this war for 47 years.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

I would love it so much more if he called him poopy pants Joe.

[Ty Ward]

Well, it's so funny because, you know, normally people say like, we all know how Trump talks and how he. He tweets how he talks. So sometimes like you have to like, read between the lines. He's not really saying what people are say saying, but like he's saying booby pants. That can't be read any. Like, Barack, Barack Obama and Joe Biden started this war and we've been fighting it for 47 years. Like, that's the statement. I was like, what? Like, hey, man, like you, that's, you know, that's not a thing. Like, that's not real. So why are you saying like, go to bed, buddy, put down the Diet Coke and hit the sack because you are done. So it's all, it's all unraveling. The war is over. It's not over. We're going to. It is a war. It is a war. We've won the war. The straight of Hermuth. We need all of the. We're begging China for help and Great Britain to come open the Strait of Hormuth. But then the. We always had control. The straight of Hermuth. And what are you calling it? Straight of Hermuth. I said Hermuth. What is it? Vermouth.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Hermuz. There's a Z on the end of that thing, man.

[Ty Ward]

I don't care Again. What if I keep geography?

[Taylor Mark Levin]

It's terrible.

[Ty Ward]

Taylor. My foreign policy is. I am offended that I have to even know what that word is. So the Strait of Vermouth, which leads into Martini Bay. Yeah. Leads into Martini Bay. Go down to Margaritaville. Braver town, flavor town. Bam. So, yeah, he's saying we have control over it. We've always had control over it. It's open now, so, you know.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

By the way, please. Trying to come help us keep it.

[Ty Ward]

Yeah, I don't. It's changing by the second, so I don't know. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I don't even. Are we. Are we still bombing them? Like, is that like an active daily thing?

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Oh, daily. And for those not paying attention and I don't know. Well, at least it was up until a day or two ago. I haven't checked in, but it was literally every day Pete Hegseth would come out and say, we're bombing them more today than we bombed them yesterday. Like, it was a point that he was like, and today will be the biggest day of bombs every day. Like, they just kept trying to push the envelope. They wanted everybody to know that today we were going to drop at least one more bomb than we did the day before.

[Ty Ward]

Yeah. And it's. Again, the things that you hear Trump say just comes flooding in your mind. But somebody was. He was in a press conference, and they were talking about ships that they sunk, and he said, they were sinking so many ships, all their ships. Their navy's gone. And somebody asked something about how many or what were they? And he said. He said. That's what I asked. I said, are these ships. Are these ships we could be saving? Are these ships? And they say. They say, no, we still. We like to sink the ships because it's more fun. You know, these guys, they like. They really like blowing things up. And I'm like. And everybody, like, even the. Ha ha ha ha. I'm like, yeah. Isn't that hilarious how much he loves. How much they love to murder people? Like, wow. Like, he basically just said, no, we probably could have just disabled them, but no. Like, to sing ships. Oh, jeez.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Loose lips and all that.

[Ty Ward]

Yeah. Or. Yeah, Loose Scud missiles. Sink all your blood muscles. I don't. Sorry. Wow.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Wow.

[Ty Ward]

Blood muscles. Oh, man. Capillaries. So, yeah, that wasn't what we want to talk about today, but, yeah, we got that comic relief of our president taking his World War III out of the way. The West Virginia legislature concluded Cindy Dumas or whatever it is, and Tiny dies. Yeah. Dude, what does that even mean?

[Taylor Mark Levin]

You know what? It's something to do with, like, why

[Ty Ward]

are we saying it then? We're not Greek, we're not Latin, or whatever that is. Stop it. Stop it. We're West Virginians. If I have to say the word Appalachia, you don't get to say the word sine die. Like none of those redneck legislatures know what that means. They just got told that and now they're repeating it. We sign up, we concluded sunny die last day with their stupid selfie in front of the Capitol. Like they did something for 60 days. Oh, two months of getting free free drinks.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Edification of our. Our listeners. It means without day, which means they did not add any additional time to the. Without any additional time onto the initial established timeline. So it went 60 days and no more.

[Ty Ward]

Oh, okay, cool. Thanks for telling us that. That's really. We didn't understand that the end of it meant the end of it. And we're not going to do anymore because the end doesn't mean the end. We concluded our session. It's done. Concluded means done. Right. End. It's the end of it. No, we're gonna use some crazy word. Nobody knows. Okay, Good job, guys. Way to go, elites.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Factum. Factum is Latin for done.

[Ty Ward]

Factum. Okay, there's a lot of jokes there. Tax them. Hey, can we fact them.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

From our northern panhandle Bostonian accent delegates?

[Ty Ward]

Yeah. So they got a lot done this year, Taylor. I saw the governor. I'll. I'll try to. If I can remember, I'll post the link to the press conference that the governor did and maybe even if we're feeling froggy, we can go over that video on an episode. But I don't think that he necessarily got anything wrong in that video. I think he was pretty honest. I think obviously he painted a rosy picture of what they got done of his agenda. But the main. And maybe if I get miss anything you can add to it. But I think his main shining point was the tax cut. He didn't get his full 10 tax cut, but he got it 5%. They got a lot of the smaller portions of their economic thing done with some of the. Creating some grants and stuff for employers for training. One thing that I had forgotten about that I didn't realize passed was the. All the stuff about creating state. I don't know if it's state run, but basically creating a conglomerate of insurance and retirement accounts for private comp. Smaller private companies to be able to invest into different insurance plans and retirement plans that they could carry on to their next employer because it's not tied to their employer. They got that done. A few other things. And Taylor, while it's on my mind, he mentioned that they Got rid of a lot of boards that seem to be costing the state money. Was that something the legislature did or is that what he did? The executive?

[Taylor Mark Levin]

I don't remember any bills that necessarily did that. Now that, let's just be fair. Most individuals, including those who, you know, follow this professionally, like the news media, there are bills that will get passed that are procedural, that do not carry a lot of like flash and grab much attention. So it's very possible that these needed to be these changes, removals, deletions of these, these boards and bureaucracy needed to be codified. And it did what they were actual bills if they did. I didn't see anything about it. I didn't hear anything about it. But it's also very possible that they were administrative entities entirely that he had the authority to just nix himself. But needless to say, referring to as the governor's press conference yesterday or the other day and he got up and bragged about this, I'm going to call BS that they're huge government savings. Now, don't get me wrong, the more of those that you can get rid of, the better. I just don't think he did anything substantial that's going to save taxpayers any dollars because there's a few less of these meetings. I'm taking the Ty Ward black pill approach on, on this government action here. So.

[Ty Ward]

Yeah, no, sure, and that's, that is a good point is when he did say that he was kind of square, square block into round hole of saying this was part of his, you know, original plan to, you know, cut his executive and audit his agencies. And I think he even did said say the word audit. And I guess they did the audit, Taylor, and they found out that there's nothing they can get rid of other than a couple of aboard. So we're good to go, ready to go. It's 100%, you know, steam shovel ready government. We're running at full efficiency. Pedal to the metal. This is the only thing we're doing good. We've got all muscle, no fat. So yeah, and again, I think we've said before, you know, that kind of just disappeared. It seemed like it would have been more advantageous PR wise for him to actually just stop talking about it so. Because clearly he did nothing. But, but Taylor, most people, again, black pill. Most people don't care and won't notice and I are the only one that cares. So yeah, they actually have a memory longer than a hamster and understand that, you know, sometimes people say stuff and they should probably address that they did or did not do what they said they were going to do. But I don't know. I don't want to go full black pill about the legislature this year. They did get some good stuff done and it's too early in the morning for me to remember what it was, but I think some of the stuff that they would view as positive, we would say either wasn't enough or is it necessarily positive? I think I plan on having Kayla Young on the show. They did a daycare where they basically just trimmed around the edges and made it easier for the current system, which is failing and bloated and full of regulation, to get funded easy, more easily through the grants that we don't think should exist. So that's something that everybody, which with the exception exception of a few, voted for unanimously in both houses. So what's some stuff you recall?

[Taylor Mark Levin]

TAYLOR well, the other the big thing that, you know, libertarians are pretty excited about or thankful for, I guess would be the constitutional carry for 18 to 21 year olds that made it through. I don't know that it's been signed by the governor yet. He may be waiting to do something a little bit more ceremonial with that signage, I don't know. But it did pass both houses before the end of session, so that's probably the biggest one. You know, again, they didn't do too much this session. You know, Hope is Hope scholarship is in there and relatively fairly protected for the meantime. My understanding is this, and correct me if I'm wrong, Scott, or maybe one of our listeners will correct this later. We'll catch it. But my understanding also is in the way that they're Scott? SCOTT I don't know, Ty. Oh, I'm literally looking at my brand new provoked book that I picked up at the LP and it was like staring at me anyways. But my understanding is the way it is now being funded, we talked about the changing to quarterly payments instead of like front ending at the beginning of the fiscal year. But they are also like front loading because of that like into the the next fiscal year. So it also like all around is better methodology of supporting that great program. So that was good news, I think for obviously school choice proponents, which we definitely are.

[Ty Ward]

But but again with the the black pilling is, you know, Morrissey said in his press conference that HOPE is now fully funded through the surplus.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Yeah.

[Ty Ward]

So it's not well, not entirely it.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

So there it is split like some of it is in the front and I think it's like what they could 100 million of it basically what we

[Ty Ward]

can actually afford is in the budget. The rest is kind of like, ah, God, what are we going to do? Surplus.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Yeah, well, and I think what actually needs to happen is maybe, and we talked about it before, the way they drop, they draft up their budget, what is actually surplus and what is them lowballing their estimates based off of, you know, projected things. You know, they do certain tricks if for lack of a better phrase, so that they can come in and say, oh look how great we're doing, we've got another surplus. And like, well, but they anticipate a surplus every year. So they're, you know, really a surplus. Like if I, if I tell everybody my, my, my best, you know, race time or whatever or something, but it's only like a split second faster every time. Like I'm bragging about it. It's like it's not really, it's the same freaking thing. You're just kind of being truth, you're being truthful but not factual.

[Ty Ward]

Right.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

And that's what they're, that's what they're doing with it.

[Ty Ward]

So anywho, and that's the game they play that we always talk about with the whole flat budget thing is they Again, you know, and we've talked about it at nauseam, but the, they're bragging about having higher than projected revenue gains every single month. And that all is basically saying, like you said, they, they lowball their estimates and then they get this money so that it's not, I guess technically considered part of the, the revenue that they need to fund the government. So it goes into the surplus and then they come and come back in special sessions and, and towards the end and backdoor deals and, and Mike Folk has explained this and you go check him out on Facebook, EP posts, some pretty insightful stuff from when he was in the legislature. And none of it's really changed, but that's what they do is they come back and do these backdoor deals and end of the, the day surplus spending that's not necessarily in the budget. And so I mean you could say you have a flat budget, but when you have a surplus spending of, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars. I mean, what does that even really mean? So.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Right.

[Ty Ward]

Yeah, and you can't have the same budget, I mean even just inflation wise. I mean the idea that you're going to have a flat budget, I mean, I guess that is with inflation. But they're, they've added spending every single year. So how can you have a flat budget when you, you're adding spending and they're not cutting anything significant. So how's that work? So, yeah, I mean, I think it's. Again, it's just people not paying attention so that they can say these things. But I mean, and I don't really hear people bringing it up. I mean, you think the media such as, you know, you know, Metro News, TJ Meadows and stuff would. Would notice that stuff, but it doesn't seem to really come across anybody's radar. But speaking of TJ Meadows at Metro News, we had a huge loss in legislature. They basically just demolish the economic future of West Virginia by not passing West Virginia teams. Taylor. It's. It's a travesty. We had one opportunity, you know, one shot, one opportunity to get everything you ever wanted.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

And their arms were heavy, they had spaghetti on.

[Ty Ward]

We ended up with mom's spaghetti on our sweater. Taylor. I mean, we really needed to pass this crony capitalistic privatization of our economic development system. And that would have been just the rocket ship that Jim justice was talking about to get us to the moon of economic success. I'm being facetious. Yeah. So I guess the West Virginia team's legislation that didn't that initiate in the House or no.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Yeah. So most economic initiatives start at least this session started in the House. That was a big thing again. And to Dave and TJ and Brad and all those folks down there, Metro Credit, they were right. I think one of the big things and one of the reasons why the less legislation than maybe folks expected to see, wanted to see whatever passed was because the House went in with a very specific agenda. And as part of their economic development, jobs, growth, they had some fancy name for it, but it was really actually kind of dumb and I don't remember it. But they went in with all these pieces of legislation ready as part of this economic package and they put it forward. The Senate kind of just showed up like freshman at high school, trying to figure out where the hell to go every day. And they were just there for the ride. So, yeah, the teams West Virginia bill was one of them that did not pass. It got through the House, obviously took it quite a while. I mean, they were still debating it in House finance when we got there for lobby day back on the 24th or whatever it was. So it maybe needed more time to season in the Senate, but it ended up not getting across the finish line, which as you mentioned, will be the downfall of our great state.

[Ty Ward]

Yeah. And so the. From what I understand, the teams West Virginia was basically going to be creating Non profits. Hahaha. Which one?

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Nonprofit.

[Ty Ward]

Basically be. I thought it was multiple. Okay. The, it would basically create this economic development, you know, brain trust that would be tasked to go out and, you know, do economic development and, and entice businesses to come here. And I, I would suppose they would recommend that legislation from, you know, conversations they have with businesses and industries across the country. And I don't really know how it would be funded. That part I don't really understand.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

There was some, there was some weird mechanism regarding alcohol sales in the state. Like, and they were explaining that while we were there that day and something about like, if you contract sale, like your purchase of alcohol at X and then you can sell it or you actually obtain it for X minus Y, then the delta there is what the state gets. I mean, it was something weird that they were doing with state alcohol sales at like, or state vigs, like the, I guess the Coliseum or the Coliseum, but what do you call it? The convention center and stuff. I don't know. It was, it was really convoluted and I was like, wow, this feels like you guys are, some are bootlegging or something. Like, get the hell out of this. Like, this is just, it was so annoying just to listen to.

[Ty Ward]

Well, and that, that's the thing is, is they act like it's this huge thing. But then again, you know, sometimes you, you kind of look around and you're like, am I being punked? Like, did I take stupid pills this morning? Like, don't we have an entire Department of Commerce that, that's their entire job, like, is to make sure that companies are being dealt with. And we, we have delegates and representatives from the economic Development office in the Department of Commerce flying to like Taiwan and all these other countries and being official, you know, partners with Ireland or whatever. And like, that's what they're supposed to be doing. And we're going to create this entire privatized, you know, lobbying group to do the same thing. And again, I'm going to contradict myself from one of our last episodes about, you know, being fearful of privatizing things. But you know, if you're going to have a state representative representing the state to companies which we don't think should exist to begin with. I don't know that putting, you know, backdoor, weird Rothchild groups together to, you know, bandy those deals. And that was one thing, you know, TJ Meadows had posted on social media was that it would be free of, you know, political influence and, and all the trappings of government and I'm like, is that a good thing? Like, like the free of political influence? You mean like the legislature? Like the people that represent us, like the people that are fully accountable to the. And again, I'm sure these people would be appointed and approved by the executive branch, but that's just one more level of, you know, shadowy, you know, backdoor movements that don't have scrutiny from the people. Because at least all of the people working for the Department of Commerce, you know, are right there on the website and you can see who they are. But I don't know, man, I just didn't get a good feeling about it. And again, I could be just contradicting myself. But the main point is, is we don't think that should be happening at all anyway. But it just. You're creating another layer of bureaucracy which seemed to be another theme of this legislate legislative session was creating more bureaucracy.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

But yeah, they, the idea was that this team was. Had this board of governors or directors or trustees or whatever the hell. And it was going to have, you know, some of these big hitters around the state on it. The president of West Virginia, but more notably Brad Smith, the governor, sorry, maybe I got ahead of myself there. The president of Marshall, and don't get me wrong, I think libertarians will say we should definitely be listening to the, you know, advice of people who are successful out in the free market until they start, you know, advocating for more government to run the free market. So.

[Ty Ward]

Which is all that Brad Smith has ever done since he started having an influence here. So yeah, yeah,

[Taylor Mark Levin]

so it was. And obviously there were some other people that, you know, the governor could appoint and everything and, and that governing board because it wasn't political, but yet still also appointed by a governor. Anyways, yeah, I was supposed to be void of the picking winners and losers that the legislature does, which to an extent, sure, but also just fricking let the free market do this. Guys. What is so hard from just getting out of the way? And they say, well, every other state is doing this. Well, a lot of folks are doing a lot of things that look good and may have immediate benefits to them but have long term negative effects to them or just wrong in general. That doesn't mean we should. You know, it's the old adage, everyone jumped off a bridge. Would you jump off a bridge too? It's like, no. Maybe West Virginia should take the novel approach of looking to eliminate across the board taxes like the business inventory tax for every business, not just gas and data centers, or not just for coal and hardwood or racetracks or whatever, but for every business and things along those lines. Because all this is going to do is the same thing, but instead of the legislature doing it, it's going to be this non profit and putting in air quotes. This non profit that's going to be going out and saying, oh, you know what business we really need to bring to West Virginia? Tywards, Brush Busters or you know, think

[Ty Ward]

that that's something they should be punching.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

You know what industry we really need to be bringing to West Virginia? Widget makers. We need more widget makers in West Virginia. And it's like their word, so. And unfortunately it's still just a government entity. You can call it a non profit all you want, but when it's being funded by, and money flowing through and they're doing contracts for state agencies or on behalf of the state agency, the Department of Commerce, then it is a subsidiary of the state government. Just let the free market decide, folks. It might not be as quick and as flashy as, you know, getting to announce, you know, these big grandiose projects and deals you've made every three to four months, but you know what? When we spend tens of millions of dollars to even get to the point where we're comfortable enough to announce those deals and then 75% of them fall flat on their face anyways, I would rather go for the slow methodical approach.

[Ty Ward]

Dude, you just. Okay, so in that press conference, so we gave, when I say we the, the government and, and stole from us and then, well, we gave Nucor this new metal recycling facility that's going into Mason County. Massive, massive facility. They've, they've had, you know, 3,000 plus employees there working on that, most of them from out of state. And they've spent, you know, probably, I don't know, a billion plus dollars building that facility. And we gave them, I, I almost guarantee it. I mean it's, you can't build that kind of facility with that. I mean I, I couldn't imagine, maybe I'm being exaggerating, but. So we gave them $300 million. And that wasn't all just, you know, just a check that we wrote. But a lot of it was infrastructure. We paid for infrastructure. And some of that came from Biden's build back better, whatever they call it, Infrastructure Improvement act, his Infrastructure Reduction Act. And a lot of that money it was, it was green, green spending. And we've talked about that because it's a recycling place. And so they qualified for some of that. And you Know, even some of the most fiscally conservative one delegates were saying, well, you know, it's basically free money. And we've talked about that again, you know, and you just basically giving the federal government incentive to keep doing it. But $300 million and they've promised that they're going to have, they're going to have about a thousand jobs there at that facility. And that sounds like a lot of jobs. If you're talking about Mason county and you're talking about a company starting, but when you're talking about spending $300 million of basically debt spending, that's not a very good return on investment. $300 million spent for a thousand jobs where, I mean, I don't know what the average salary is, but I guarantee you it's not going to be. They're not going to be six figure salaries for all thousand employees.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

And not only that, Ty, but how many of those people are going to be living in Ohio?

[Ty Ward]

Right. No, that's, that's the thing is it's not, they're not, there's no guarantee to say that. They have to be West Virginians and I'm sure a lot of them will because, I mean, even like, you know, Toyota's near Buffalo, West Virginia is in Buffalo, West Virginia. And that's close to Point Pleasant in those places. And I have friends that drive from our area to Buffalo every day to work there. So they are, I mean, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt that they're going to be hired. Let's say they hire 100% West Virginia employees. That's not why they did it. Because everything they brag about is the tax revenue they're going to get from that facility is going to more than pay that $300 million. That is their concern is tax revenue. Well, yesterday in that press conference had a guy stand up there and talk about a new feed store, hardware store conglomerate that's opened up in the area called Greens Feed. It used to be Greens Feed and Seed in Charleston. Anybody who is familiar with the Charleston area right there around the Capital Market, where Habitat for Humanity is off the interstate there, off 64, I guess it's 77. Technically, there's greens Feed and Seed. That store has been there for probably, I don't know, close to 100 years. Well, it was family owned and they sold to this investment group and we still go there. And honestly, Taylor, it's one of the things where an investment group came in and that store has improved. The only thing I'll say And I. This is kind of getting the weeds. But they used to offer more, you know, like you could get like blood, bloodworm meal for like organic gardening and some of these really obscure.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Witchcraft are you talking about?

[Ty Ward]

Exactly, dude. So they used to offer some of this more obscure gardening stuff and some more, you know, I don't know, a lot of horse stuff. And it was one of those stores, you go in there and the same product had been sitting on the shelf for a decade until somebody happens to need it. And so that's not a fantastic way to run a business. You know what I mean? We all have seen these stores and they just kind of run off of, you know, the general profit, but they're not really growing and. And so they were having trouble, you know, they were in financial trouble. So they sold out to this conglomerate. Well, they opened up, they started selling tractors and a few other things and grew a little bit. They got the Ace Hardware branding. So they've got that hardware stuff. They started selling steel and, and Milwaukee tools. And they opened up a store in, in Ripley off Mineral Wells where they're selling tractors and four wheelers and stuff there. They opened up a store in Parkersburg, a big store where it's kind of, it kind of would remind you a little bit of like a tractor supply or Rural King or something like that with more of a feed store, hardware bend a little bit smaller, more, you know, kind of an intimate setting more than tractor supply and, and Rural King. And they're just getting done I guess. April 2 they said they're opening up another facility in Ripley and it's kind of weird. They're going to be selling like hardware for like hardware or cabinet hardware and like cabinets and stuff like flooring. Like it's weird. I. I was telling Erica it's kind of looks seems like combination of like ollies, if you're familiar with ollies and like tractor supply roking and stuff. So whatever, they've obviously done their research. They. They're going to be doing this, so whatever. So this company, he got up there and said they're opening up another facility and they're looking to expand even more to other locations. And he said by the end of, I think he said 26, they'll have 650 employees. And his main sell was thank you for these tax cuts. Keep it coming because you're really helping our employees and us to be able to save money to invest. And nobody said anything about a grant. Nobody said anything about paying for infrastructure. It was an investment group that came and invested in this company and expanded it and now they'll have 650 employees and they plan on expanding even further past that. So we've invested nothing as a state and gotten 650 employees by the guy who runs the investment group which basically owns Greens, said it was tax cuts that helped them do this. So you tell me those two stories. $300 million for a thousand jobs. $0 negative whatever. Negative whatever. You want to talk about our tax. What are we up to now with that graduated tax cut? What did cut a total. I think it was like they've cut a total of like 11% or something since they passed that. And then they're going to pass. They're going to do 5% that they're passing this year. So it's negative investment for that guy to give us 650 jobs. So it's basically proving out the point of what you and I are saying, Taylor. And they don't even see that. They're going to just. The plan is to just keep going further and further and further and not even that. The Secretary of State, Warner, what's his first name?

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Mark Mac. Mark Mac is the old one. Yep. Mark Warner.

[Ty Ward]

Yeah, Mark Warner, which I'm kind of warming up to. He seems like a decent guy, but he, he announced that they are. The legislature approved creating a. I don't remember what they called it, but it's basically a business readiness department where they're going to pay people to help businesses navigate the government. Instead of cutting government, they've created an entire department to help them help you navigate the government. And so, you know, it seemed to me like, read the room. What are these businesses telling you? We need less government, take less of our money and we'll just do it. Like we'll just open up businesses.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Well, it's just, I think epitomizes Ty for me again as a covering Republican, the fact that this Republican supermajority can, can stand up behind a podium and brag about that and not see the poetic irony of that. Brag like, bro, like you're missing the forest for the trees here. It's like, hey, instead of needing more employees and a whole unit to, to do this, just make the process freaking easier. Like, why is it so complicated, you know, in the first place? So this kind, I think that summarizes to an extent some of the rest of the stuff that we've been talking about, but it's like they just don't see how oxymoronic some of this stuff is when you come out and claim to be small government, fiscally conservative individuals. And then you have to do all. You have to have these mental gymnastics to jump through all these hoops and say, yay, we created jobs. But it's like, at what cost? I mean, at the end of the day, if you, like you said, you know, and I don't know that it wasn't falling along to do the math there, but if you're spending, you know, a quarter of a million dollars to create a job that is, let's just give them the benefit of the doubt. A hundred thousand dollars annual salary, the tax from that that you're going to get as a state is maybe somewhere like, I don't know, five to $8,000, all said and told, per year. So you've got to go 20 years or. No, you 20, 40, 50, 50 years to pay back that $250,000 you spent to create that one job. Like, that's, that's just the kind of. But, but in the meantime, I mean, I'm not, you know, naive enough to not understand how this is played in the immediacy. You get to say, look how many jobs we created. And Joe six pack out there who's not, you know, counting the beans and paying close enough attention like we are, because we're just nerds and this is our artism that they'll just say, oh, great job. Yep, I'm glad I voted Republican. They're creating jobs. And it's, you know, it's the same thing, you know, talking to somebody about,

[Ty Ward]

like, folks who are.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Are all in on these like, Ozempic and wegovy and all this stuff. And it's like fatties. Yeah, well, they say baddies fatties. Oh. So, yeah, in the, in the immediacy, you're losing weight, but you don't know because they haven't really been out long enough. And, and you're just.

[Ty Ward]

No, we know, we know there.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

There are side effects. Look at them downstream consequences to doing this. And yes, it looks good, it feels good, it gets the job done today or in the, you know, the first year you're doing it.

[Ty Ward]

But Google, Google Kelly Osborne. Google Kelly Osborne. That is West Virginia's future.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Not doing it. I don't know why I'm so reluctant to do that right now, but I'm not.

[Ty Ward]

She's like the epitome of Ozempic face like, no, that's, that's the thing. You just like it's. And that's a great analogy, Taylor, is you get people like Roger Hanshaw all These people that there's so much. And that's the thing, I don't get offended, but the one thing that you'll get close to offending me is condescending to me. And that's one thing that, you know, legislators like to do. And I know a lot of them, they talk to a lot of people who don't really understand how the process works for the government and legislation and stuff. And I always kind of try to nip that in the bud when I have conversations to say something, to show them, like, oh, no, I'm not, this isn't, this isn't Snowflake. Like I get, I know what's going on. Like, I'm not an idiot. But these people like Roger Hanshaw and all these people that you're Mitch Carmichaels, all these people that have these high minded ideas of, well, you just don't understand how, you know, business works and economics work and, and I'm a lawyer, never run a business, but I'm a lawyer and I know these things and I'm smart and I went to college and I have a doctorate and, and I know all these things. And you go, oh, okay, cool. So how did this country become successful? Did, did John Rockefeller get a bunch money or did he, or did that start when government started telling him what to do and he started playing the government? Is that where all this started? Did, is this how America became the greatest power in the world by crony capitalism and investing billions of taxpayer dollars into enticing companies so they can laugh in their boardrooms that they tricked another state into giving them all this money in concessions. Is that how it worked? Also, I'll, I'll say this, Taylor, kind of switch off a little bit. That's how coal got successful in this state. What they're doing with data centers and what they did with oil and natural gas that we talked about here before. Yeah, if you want to talk about the history of how West Virginia was successful, you can talk about how we gave, you know, we basically gave cold industry the farm. Literally gave them the farms. And they used and abused this state and disappeared and vanished. Ninja vanished into the night. And now we're having to deal with billions of dollars of damaged water infrastructure in southern West Virginia. And we're doing it yet again with data centers. Not as extreme, but they're not doing anything to keep that from happening. So yeah, if you want to talk about high minded, this is how this all works. The only thing that they're doing that has historical indicators is the wrong things And I don't know if you want to talk a little bit about the data center stuff. I have a question for you. So that legislation that they passed, and I don't know if you actually know this or not, but that legislation that they passed for data centers this session. Well, they passed it before and they came back and did like a rules change or whatever and they. Anders and Dillon, a few tried to add an amendment to add securities for water rights and property rights. What did that bill actually do? Do?

[Taylor Mark Levin]

I have no clue.

[Ty Ward]

Me either. We need to investigate that.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Yeah, so I know that the micro grid bill from last year, I think that's when you're referring to.

[Ty Ward]

No, well that's not what they are amending. There was another bill.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

No, no, but the one. The one last year.

[Ty Ward]

Well, no, this bill that they were addressing this year for. For data centers was a rules change to something else. And maybe that micro grids bill had more to do with data centers than just the micro grids. But. But we need to get somebody on or talk to somebody about actually knowing what it was. Because my thing is I'm a black pill dude as they come. But I don't want to just attribute things that aren't true. And they're saying the legislature is letting Dennis Centers run rapid across the state. And I'm like. Well, as far as I'm concerned is basically they're just saying that they're allowed to exist. Which I'm not sure why that's a purview of the government to begin with. But I would really like to nail down what all this legislation actually did other than creating the microgrid thing that gives them the. Because there was a thing in there that they discussed about like not letting localities create rules for data centers. That's been bandied. I don't know if that actually happened or what. So there's a lot of talk and it's hard to mince out what. Like what actually happened and what was just being talked about.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Yeah, so that was House Bill 493 which establishes certification rules for high impact data centers focusing on regulating water usage and enabling gas powered microgrids for these facilities. This legislation follows and expands upon House Bill 2014 from 2025 which created the framework for creating certified data center sites and was criticizing for. Was criticized for reducing local control. Yeah, there you go. So I was right. I do believe. Yeah, I do believe there. There was. And again some. Some of the stuff is so cool. Cyclical. There was some legislation passed over the years that enabled Government oversight to some extent on major, major industries, especially extraction industries and those that would have an impact on the environment. And I think what House bill, these two House bills kind of combined do roll back some of those regulations that therefore allow data centers and micro grids supporting them to move through the process faster without, you know, as much scrutiny by, by the state and, or local. Now, you know, we say regularly on this show how often libertarians, but more especially you and I agree with, with folks like Mr. Anders. I not sure that I agreed with him on, on this point from just a libertarian, you know, free market perspective. Now I, I, again to your point, I have not fully researched his exact position on this. I, I know he's very good on property rights. So if there's any, anything in this bill that, you know, our attacks or, or in any way impacts personal property rights, we would obviously agree with him and be against it. But local control, like that's a buzzword that basically just means that like county commissions and other such entities can come in and veto what folks are doing with their, often what they're doing with their private property. So if you've got a bunch of acreage out in Berkeley county, for example, and you want to sell it to a micro grid company or a data center company, the county commission should have the local control to come in and say, oh well, I don't know this is going to be a huge stain on our county or we don't like, you know, how it's going to look or not in my backyard or whatever that, you know, they can say and then kill that which obviously as a individual then, you know, destroys your potential income capability and the ability to profit off of your own property. So I don't know the nuances of the two bills specifically what, where they ended up in final form to say, you know, generally for my general approach to it, Ty, is this. I think West Virginia has the ability and agree with Mr. Morris to some extent and others. West Virginia has the ability to be a standout in the energy space, whether that's coal, whether that's natural gas. It should be also nuclear. It should be everything. We should have policies and remove and work to remove regulation so that all types of energy can thrive in this state. And that would be a huge boon for industry and business moving to us and establishing here in West Virginia. But I also think, you know, the libertarian counter to that is that through the civil courts, if these companies are predatory in their practices for establishing themselves in terms of acquiring property, or they are just harmful in their impact on, you know, surrounding property and or the environment in general. Where a judicious, you know, court could deem that yes, okay, they're dumping all kinds of sludge or toxic fumes into the air right next to others that they should be held civil reliable for those that's, you know, kind of our check Libertarians check on removing regulation. It shouldn't be police on the front end. It should only be when you cause harm. But when you do, you're held civilly liable for them. So I would like to see us if we're going to peel back some of these things and make it easier for data centers and micro grids to be established that local communities have the ability to hold them accountable if they are harmed. They shouldn't have the ability to come in and veto what individuals do with their private property, even if it includes so establishing data centers and micro grids.

[Ty Ward]

I think the property thing is, is the imperative but and I think Anders agrees with us on that. It's just the matter of. And this is Butler from Mason county was on Tom Roten show and he was explaining it that you know, basically what, what happened just to move back a little bit is they created that the first bill last year that you mentioned and then this year this bill was basically addressing rules changes that need that were presented to them through whoever Department of Commerce, epa, all these things. And they created some rules bundle to go with that. And the, the excuse, the reason they used to reject Anders and Dylan's amendment was it wasn't germane to that bill because they would be changing the initial bill which if that's true, you know, they do they play these games. If that's legit. I understand that that does make sense is you're not, you're the time to do that was when the bill was addressed. If you want to create a new bill to add on to that regulation, you can do that. But adding it as an amendment isn't germane. That was their reasoning. I'm not a lawyer. I'm not. I don't, I don't. Wasn't there. I don't really understand if that's true or not. That was the excuse they used. And, and again I didn't necessarily read that amendment. It's there. I'm. Whatever form of autism I have makes that state legislature website really hard for me to navigate and understand. So I didn't find that amendment in the language in it. So I don't really know what it said. But knowing what Chris Anders views on it is basically the similar concept of the state shouldn't. To the, to the counter of what you're saying is the state shouldn't be creating special exemptions for data centers to be able to get around normal regulation. And I don't know whether necessarily did that or not, but I do know Jim Butler did say that now the EPA and the Department of Commerce and stuff would go back and create rules around our current code that would apply to data centers and water usage would be one of those things. There's already code that would say if you're going to damage waterways, this and that, that would be addressed here. My issue is, is when does that ever happen? I mean we have some pretty lax water standards here in West Virginia. And also like you said, when have you ever seen a state or, or an individual sue a big company? It ever ends up well for them next to never. I mean they've been abusing this state for a hundred plus years as far as property rights goes. And it almost never comes out. And then if it does, if somebody ends up getting a settlement, their properties gone or damaged, they've already moved to some other state. So I think that's what people have a real problem with. You have, you have your people that are just doing this emotionally and they, they're the opposite of us and they think the state should be, state and locality should be the ones telling anybody what they should do with their property ever. So that there's that side of it. And yeah, we don't agree with that whatsoever. But my thing is if you are a data center and you need this water, whether you get it from an aquifer, through well systems, pulling it out of the ground, whether you get it from a river, even if you're recycling that water, doing closed loop system, you're not maintaining 100 of that water. You're always constantly going to be needing some, some amount of water and it's a lot of water, like millions and millions of gallons a day and rivers aren't deep enough to do that. So what would they have to do? They'd have to dam it or go somewhere where it's already damned. Now if I walk, if I walk up to a river and put a hose in it and fill a tank in the back of my truck up to go fill a pond or something, nobody's even gonna notice. Especially if it's in a public area. And I mean nobody's really gonna care. But if I put a pipe in there and start pulling that water out to the millions of gallons, I Think that people in that community and the people who also get their water from that source have a say. And whether or not they think you should be doing that or not. And again, it's a tricky thing. And talk about the libertarian philosophy of it, what the laws are, but they are, as soon as they put that pipe in that river, they are now affecting everyone else forever, whatever they do to that river. And we've seen that the Ohio river, parts of the Kanal river are basically dead because we allowed DuPont and all these companies to pour God knows what into these rivers. That's irreparable damage that will never be fixed short of an apocalypse. And nature is allowed to take its course. But when you're putting a pipe into the river to pump all the water out of the river or not, all that's dramatic. You know what I'm saying? When you're, when you're taking water, the river you have, you are now affecting everyone. So I don't have a problem with the locality. And again, this is, again, you could say I'm not a pure libertarian. But if Berkeley county or Martinsburg or whoever were the recent, the biggest hot topic data centers talking about coming, if they say, as a community, we're going to put a resolution up for a vote, should we allow data centers to take water out of our river? And everybody votes no. They're not saying, hey, property owner, you can't sell your land to a data center. We're saying, hey, data center, you can't have our water. And you can say I sound like a greenie or whatever, but that's their water too. That's how this all works. And you can say everybody should be, it should be a free for all, for the river, but that's not how our laws work and that's not how our society has been formed.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

No, I think that it's a valid point and I think again, there has to be. We talked about the litmus tests, you know, for the Libertarian Party earlier that might have been offline. But anywho, you know, I think it is important for libertarians to be pragmatic on some of these things. And you know, very similarly taking the Dave Smith approach to like public parks and things with like people using or trying to move the homeless and drug users and stuff who are using drugs off of public parks and where kids are, it's like, hey, they stole all of our taxes to make these things. Therefore, exo facto we are effective part owners of this. We should get a say in who gets to sleep there do drugs there or whatever.

[Ty Ward]

Yep.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

So, yeah, I think until again, even if we had a legislative libertarian legislature and governor, you know, next session, we're not going to immediately snap our fingers and everything's going to be privatized. So as you boil the frog into a more, you know, anarcho capital stand, I think you have to provide and allow local governments and entities some control over things like natural waterways, the, the air, you know, et cetera. And that's where, you know, some of that civil liability comes in as well. My, my contracts that I will pull is or draw is, you should be able to bring, if you own enough acres to pull in a data center, you should be able to put it on your property. But to your point about them being able to put a pipe in the river and draw water out, they should be able to say as a, as a county or a community, no, you can't do it that way. Then you as a private business have to figure out some other way to get water. Whether you're pumping it in or trucking it in some other way, that's up to you to figure out. But you can't just come in and do that. And the community should have some, some say over that. So I agree. As libertarians, we have to be pragmatic and reasonable in our approach to things and not just say, oh, well, you know, let them do whatever and then, and then damn the torpedoes afterwards.

[Ty Ward]

Yeah. And that's, that's when they open themselves up for scrutiny about what they're doing. As far as, you know, if it's a strip club and you want it in your community, you go, there's people that will say, you know, well, we should be able to vote, say we don't want a strip club in our, near our residential area or near a church or whatever. And that's a, that's a slippery slope for libertarians. But if you want to create a code that says you can't have a strip club within 200ft of a church, you know what, again, pragmatically, I don't really have a problem with that, man. Like, I think generally most people would agree with that. And, and we're, we're not real big into democracy, but you know, if there's a location and it's open and it's a strip club and there's kids going to Sunday school and people going to a Christian school or going to church every Sunday and they don't want to drive by a strip open strip club every day or go near it like okay, cool. I mean, you could say I'm not a pure libertarian, but I really don't have a. That's not really hurting anyone so much as just telling somebody they can't open that they can't say, you're not saying you can't open a business saying you can't open it there. The church was there first. The community was there first. And again, a purity test. You can say, I'm not a pure libertarian. But, you know, finders keepers, buddy. Like, you can't just do whatever you want in a community if you want your community to thrive. Now again, you can be a pure libertarian and say, no, everybody should do whatever they want. It's your problem.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Cool.

[Ty Ward]

Well, now everybody in that church can go find somewhere else to go to church and say this community isn't for me and move away. So, I mean, and I get it. I'm just being honest here, Taylor. That's just the way the world works. And it doesn't. It. Libertarian purity test. Like you said many times, it's a great philosophy, but if you want to run a community and you want to run a political party and you want to have a functioning society, you have to give a little bit. And I don't really think that that's a huge gift. But, but my main point was, is that when you have something like that, like a. I'm trying to think of an example of something that would benefit the community, that would pull that much water out of the river, but whatever. And the community says the, the, the drain of the water from the river is worth whatever's coming in there. And they say, okay, but if it's a data center that's going to employ like five dudes in front of watching server farms, and almost all of it is going to either social media or the government monitoring people. Like the big lie that it's. Oh, it's just AI. It's for. No, it's data centers to collect data. Who knows where that's going? Who knows what it's doing? It's, it's. You could say it's the mark of the beast to be conspiracy theorist.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

An hour and four seconds.

[Ty Ward]

Yes. So we don't like, I mean, if you don't want that in your community, okay, that's one thing. You can't tell people what they can do with their property. But if they're going to start affecting your property and your livelihood and the way you live, see, southern West Virginia, they have to be either told yes or no or be held accountable for that. And that's the problem is we're just saying, well, the court should be able to handle that. Well, how has that gone so far?

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Right. And again, that's the general libertarian approach. I will push back on two quick things. First, part of the issue with why it's gone the way that it's gone is because pro business Republicans and conservatives have implemented laws that have effectively bastardized the court system and how some of that actually plays out. So one of the things that libertarians who get in office should look to do is to make the civil process more fair and judicious.

[Ty Ward]

Yes.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Now, the other side to that, I'll push back out. I'm not a big zoning fan.

[Ty Ward]

You want a strip club near your church, just say it.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Well, I grew up in Beckley, for those who know, there is a strip club like a football field away from the Appalachian Bible College.

[Ty Ward]

So, yeah,

[Taylor Mark Levin]

and there was a big fuss about it. And, you know, I, I think that not just in the church situation, but in general. So the better example is we just get away from religion and strip clubs. But the better example was, you know, they had on Harper Road, which is the main thoroughfare in Beckley, coming off the interstate was a great private business coffee shop. And they have all kinds of cool stuff, an indoor climbing wall and everything. Check them out. Chocolate mousse. But the, the thing that I really bothered me about that was again, half a mile down the road, some guy had some property and sold it to put in a Starbucks franchise. Well, all these friends and family of the Chocolate Moose, like, coming out, like Facebook campaigns and everything that, you know, saying that they should utilize, like, change the zoning laws and veto them at the planning commission and all these kind of stuff, basically weaponizing government to prevent a free market from happening for someone utilizing their private business. And it's like. Right, yeah. The problem with when you allow those things to happen around morality, like the strip club and near the church, then you've all. You also give the same ability for individuals to do, like, what happened or attempted to happen with the chocolate mousse and Starbucks. You provide a weapon. You provide a venue for people who. To weaponize government against businesses that they don't want, or more specifically, competition they don't want. And that's not free market.

[Ty Ward]

Well, I think it's a little bit different. But I understand your, your point, your premise. And I'm not saying that I would ever initiate something like that, but I'm saying that if a community decides to take that route with that specific instance of Something that's a general detriment to their community. And a lot of West Virginia, like their churches, like, there's a church here and there, and that's their community, that's their general vicinity. And they probably don't want some degenerate selling their property to a strip club owner. And if they say, well, this, this is one thing, we're going to put a red line up. Clearly in these areas, they're not talking. Everybody loves when the, when the Bojangles opens up and they've got a new place to go, stuff their fat faces, they. That stuff. And they, they don't support their small businesses. So you do have a premise there. But I just think it's. My main gist was that if, if a community decides that they want to put a red line down and it's something. And again, we're going down a path where I'm not advocating for any of it really, but I think if that community wants to do that, to your point, they will deal with the ramifications of that. You are going to, just like your community saying that we don't support churches and all these people are going to leave because they've decided this community is an amorable place that supports strip clubs. You're saying at the same time, well, we're not open for business and we're going. We like the way we are and we're going to stay this way. And that's to the same side. You can, you can support either side you want, but there are, you know, market ramifications for everything you do with this stuff. And again, zoning is a great example. And, you know, if it stopped with our zoning law is you can't put strip clubs anywhere near a church. End of story. Now we're gonna pass a law that says you can't zone anymore. That. Okay. I mean, I don't really have problem with that. But that's never where it stops. Right? That's the main. That's your point, is that's not where it stops. And just the main premise. Most people. And again, this is going to sound very arrogant, but most people aren't thinking the way you and I are. You know, this pragmatically, that they just go, oh, no, zoning's good. Like, we need to decide who goes where because that's what we're supposed to be doing. And that's what zoning is, is you saying that there's some sort of centralized planning greater, greater good that you're putting down that will. Everybody will hate in 10 years because now they can't open up a Starbucks down the road, which I would rather go to Starbucks than the Moose place, but

[Taylor Mark Levin]

kosher, because you're a basic bitch.

[Ty Ward]

No, I went there once. It took forever to get coffee, and the coffee wasn't that good, but. And plus Starbucks. No, the. The chocolate mousse.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Oh, sounds like.

[Ty Ward]

No, I'm not hot. I'm not hot. I'm. I think a lot of local coffee shops are way overrated. Their coffee's mid. They take forever to make coffee. They have to look at these people.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Is it mid or is it sus, bro?

[Ty Ward]

It's mid. And then they have a rock climbing wall, like, first. That's. That's point number one off the list is you having a rock climbing wall.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

They also have a West Virginia themed putt.

[Ty Ward]

Putt a what?

[Taylor Mark Levin]

They have miniature golf, West Virginia themed.

[Ty Ward]

Oh, okay, cool. Was it got Mothman and pepperoni rolls. Yeah.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

And John Henry.

[Ty Ward]

John Henry, huh?

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Yeah. That's the guy with the.

[Ty Ward]

One of the Cryptids.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

I don't think he was. Wow.

[Ty Ward]

Wow.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

I don't think. Well, it was fun. How many episodes did we make it before we got canceled?

[Ty Ward]

I don't think he really existed.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

I don't think he gets it either. I don't think it makes it Cryptid.

[Ty Ward]

So. Yeah. No. So we both agree that Starbucks is better. No, I hate Starbucks, actually. Starbucks coffee is the worst. I was just being facetious. If it was, I don't know. McDonald's. I like McDonald's coffee, dude.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

I lowkey for using cool, hip driveway.

[Ty Ward]

Not low key.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Low key. I low key like McDonald's. I get the McCafe pods for my Keurig.

[Ty Ward]

Okay, well, I don't know about that, but I make my coffee in a Swiss press, thank you very much.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Wow.

[Ty Ward]

No, we actually. So we can. We can end this. We're gonna do a whole episode on it. We're at an hour, so. Yeah. So we had our convention this last weekend, two, three days ago. It was a really good time. I think we had a pretty decent turnout. Not burning down the. The barn to, you know, get seats filled, but we had good speakers. We got some stuff done. And we have more to come on that. A lot of exciting stuff going on with the party. But that reminded me, we went to the Daily Grind in Martinsburg. It's a coffee shop in. In one of the strip malls. And it's. It's. It's funny. It's in a strip mall, but it's a local coffee shop and they have excellent service and excellent coffee. And my wife would not have passed nursing school without that coffee shop because she sat there and studied for many a test. So. And I never studied for a test, just graduated because I'm lucky like that. But yeah. So next episode we're going to talk about that and some other announcements. So, Taylor, we're at an hour. Let's wrap this up. You got any bookkeeping? You do the bookkeeping, I do the bookkeeping.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

There's not much really going on at housekeeping. There's not much going on. A lot of our, our big no, no, no. No housekeeping here. Yeah, there's not much going on at the moment. In terms of events for the party. Excited that we have a new state, a regional rep over in our region four, which is like the Charleston Hurricane, West Virginia, Huntington area that he resides and his lovely wife reside over in the hurricane area.

[Ty Ward]

Mr. Macy.

[Taylor Mark Levin]

Mike Macy. Yeah, they were. They're fantastic. He stepped up at the convention and is filling in that seat for the remaining term, which is part of the term, which is a year, the next convention. So excited to have another person focused on one of our regions, helping that grow. So we'll see some stuff out of that. But yeah, you and I have some announcements coming out later in a couple, a couple of days. Tease that. But in the meantime, you know, I think we're just back at the, the normal grind of party stuff in terms of op eds and, and outreach to members, growing our, our contact base with some, putting in some independent and unaffiliated voters to do some outreach to them as well. So, you know, just those behind the scenes stuff's happening right now, Ty and excited for that. But no, I appreciate everyone who came out to our convention. I agree. It was a great event. We had some great speakers, great chance to see fellow libertarians from all corners of the state. And yeah, just looking forward to the rest of what 2026 has for us. I think it's going to be an exciting year for lpwv.

[Ty Ward]

Yeah. So subscribe to the podcast we're on all of your podcasters, Spotify, itunes, itunes, Apple podcasts. I'm old. Any of them, you know, I listen to them on. You can get on the App Store and look up every kind of podcast application you can think of. Tons of free market options out there. So subscribe, comment, whatever it requires. Give us email at mountain state libertycast gmail.com There were a few people at the convention that mentioned that they were listening to the podcast and enjoyed it and they commented on the audio quality. So that's. That was. That really did make me feel a lot better about myself and about the podcast. So, Taylor, we're doing okay. We're doing good. We got at least two listeners. So, yeah, all you libertarians out there listening to podcasts, yeah, get on your grandma's iPhone or Android and subscribe to the podcast. They'll never notice and we'll have one more subscriber. So, yeah, listen, stream, Listen front to back, even if you have to just leave it on and go do your dishes or whatever. It really helps and spread the word. But hit us up on Facebook, Instagram X and [e-mail], hit that donate button. Give us some shekels, 5 bucks, cup of coffee. If you want to get that nasty chocolate mousse coffee, you can just go ahead and forego that and give us a donation nation and it will go to the party. This is a volunteer podcast. We get nothing out of this. So, yeah, thanks for tuning in. And until next time, don't hurt people and don't take their stuff.