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- [00:01]
A
Hello and welcome to the Mountain State Liberty cast. I am your host, Ty Ward, and my co. Host, as always, is Taylor Flock, Camera Richmond. Hello, Taylor.
- [00:13]
B
I was expecting a Pride month joker,
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A
but is it June?
- [00:17]
B
It is June. It's June 1st. Happy, happy pride month time.
- [00:21]
A
Yeah, thanks. May the force be with you. I don't know. They gave me with you. I don't know. I don't care. So, anyway. Yeah. No. Oh, no. Sorry. We're supposed to pretend like we. Yeah, we're. We were for LGBT rights before any other party was you happy? Okay, cool. Yeah. Okay. Well, since you did this. Okay. My stance on all of this is. It's not a thing. I don't anymore. Like. Like, it's not. Like, what rights are you missing? What are we doing? Like, pride. I don't care. I don't have pride in anything in my life that has any to do with, like, my sexual orientation. We're past it. Oh, good. Okay, good. Great. Way to go. All right. That's my. Moving on. I don't.
- [01:06]
B
I was gonna ask about your kids and your wife and.
- [01:10]
A
But okay. No, the. The Pride month. Pride month. Okay, great. Good. Have fun. Go do your thing. I don't care. You're not special. Go do your thing. So, Taylor, West Virginia, we have discontinuation of our government needing to control everything all the time, Always. We did a whole episode on data centers, and it seems like that subject is still just sticking out as the glaring issue in West Virginia right now, which I think is interesting for. In a couple ways, because I don't. I don't remember hearing anything about any of the other myriad of industries that are. I don't have a myriad of environmental issues, property rights issues. We just had a huge pipeline come through part of Roane county and the rest of the state about.
- [02:13]
B
I don't know.
- [02:14]
A
I think they finished it about five years ago, but they'd used eminent domain for most of the. I don't know. I don't remember the Mountain Valley Pipeline. I can't remember the exact extent of it through West Virginia, but it went through. You know, so if we went through Rowan county, it went through a lot of places in West Virginia. And I. I don't. I mean, people had an issue with it, but not like these data centers. And that's literally just, you know, eminent domain for a private pipeline. And I don't remember hearing as much across the state about the outrage about this. So I don't know, maybe that's saying more about this area and us just laying down and taking whatever happens and the, the areas that are it seems to me and you've probably seen as well, the areas that are most vocal about these data centers seems to be the, the eastern Panhandle where they're talking about people live. Yeah, well, yeah, I mean they're, I
- [03:08]
B
mean it's just there, there's, there's people too upset there.
- [03:11]
A
Right. Update. My wife walking by me with a couple buckets full of raw milk that she just milked from a cow. So this is, this is inside humble Brad. She's completely ignoring that exist morning. This is funny. So yeah, data center. She's real concerned about them. I know she, she waved at you, Taylor.
- [03:49]
B
Nice.
- [03:50]
A
Yeah. So yeah, these, the, the people that seem most concerned about it are in the eastern Panhandle. I've heard a little bit about, you know, people complaining in the, the Mason county area, but it seems places where there's more of a, I don't want to say liberal leaning but you've got way more of a diverse political spectrum up there in, in those areas. But yeah, I don't know. Have you heard anything different from what we discussed in our, our episode as far as like what we, a stance we would have on it?
- [04:28]
B
No, I don't think so. In terms of our stance on things. You know I was having a conversation last week with a buddy of mine regarding the, you know, he's very right leaning and very pro business and pro data centers or at least the idea or exploration of the idea coming to West Virginia. And you know, I was steel manning the other side of the argument which yes, there's an imminent domain aspect and I touched on the, you know, I think we discussed on our earlier episode the errors or sins of early data centers in terms of their impact on the environment and so on which I think are drastically being rectified by newer construction. So that those companies, you know, since they've learned from the backlash and the marketplace heals itself and improves are adjusting. I think the biggest thing that folks have concern on which we should in the Libertarian Party would have a stance at is that those data centers who are coming through and increasing the rates of utilities in the area that they are going to because of sweetheart deals they're getting from local and state governments. So you know, depending on which company's building it and what deal they got struck with the county and or state, if they're not self sustaining in terms of their own utilities and therefore are aggressing, for lack of a better phrase on the cost of living for the neighbors of their community, then that's obviously something that the LP and LPWV would be against. But other than that, I don't think there's anything that we didn't touch on that's really anti free market or individual or property rights.
- [06:23]
A
Yeah, it's a, it's kind of a, you know, a sticky wicket as they say for us because, you know, we touched on that episode and you can go back and listen to it. It's a, I don't remember what episode number was, but it says Data center right in the, the title. It's about three or four episodes ago. But for me the big thing and the Democrats on social media are making hay about because they recently did an interim session. Our West Virginia House delegates, they did an interim session where they discuss data centers. And you know, a lot of the Democrats were there were basically, you know, they used it as a way to get some recordings of asking questions about because I guess some of the Republican delegates went to something called Data Center World. It was like a conference about data centers, which, I mean you can't make this stuff up. It just then I don't know, like conservative Nerd World is, is so bizarre to me. But they, they were asking them questions about it and what they had done here in the state. And basically they made hay out of what, you know, we discussed our big issue of them just basically making the state in complete control of everything that goes on with data centers. They don't the, the count. The localities have no say. They get none of the money that the state is going to control every bit of tax revenue that comes from them. And that's the big issue. And they're the, the, the, the opposition is making hay out of that and, and I agree with them on that. And again, you know, some out on, on my social media that, you know, you've got to be careful when you're promoting local governments can they, they can be just as tyrannical. And I agree and we talked about that. I mean we're against zoning and things like that, but localities have a much, you know, closer bead on what the, the people that are in their communities want and the questions they have and if they, these localities had been included in these, you know, early phases of it, maybe even the economic development authorities maybe or county commission sent a rep. Representative to talk stuff and you know, get questions answered so that it wasn't just some, a sudden blindside. And I don't know if we talked about this part, but my thing, you know, just pr. I would like to give a recommendation to the Republican legislature, you know, the hand. The Roger Henshaws of the world. Just, just a, you know, marketing pro tip. The best way to sell something to your constituents is to not demean them and be condescending and make them feel like they're. You think they're idiots when they have concerns about something they didn't know anything about before you passed legislation to, to bring to their communities as it's probably going to get more fly. Get more flies with honey than. Than vinegar when you're deciding to do this. And then condescending to them when they have concerns about this thing they had no idea was coming. I just, just a pro tip for marketing next time. It just seems insane to me the way they're acting and all these delegates going on these programs and basically just saying that, oh, everything you heard is a lie. It's the Internet and the data center construction companies have ensured us that none of it's true. And you're okay, like what, dude? Like what are you talking about and what's on my mind? Tom Roten. I know we mentioned him a lot on here, but he's local and he does. He's one of the only sources here that actually does some unbiased, you know, reporting. And, and he is a very conservative guy, but he, when he interviews people, Taylor, I'm. I'm sure you've noticed it as well. He is about the most fair interviewer I've ever heard. Even when he's disagree. When he, you know, he's 100% in disagreement with somebody, he gives them the. All of the, the. I don't know the word. The Cordiality.
- [10:08]
B
Cor.
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A
Cordialness. Cord. Cord. Cor. Cork board. He's very nice to them and he pre. He just, he asks questions and gets answered and let. Lets the listener, you know, get the information and decide for themselves. And he'll usually do a monologue before, after an interview, but he lets the people have their say and he doesn't interrupt them. And, and he recently did an interview because I guess northeastern Kentucky and whatever those counties are, they have this industrial park that is like a cooperative between five counties there. And they were basically built this industrial park with an agreement with some aluminum factory that never came. You know, it's kind of what we've talked about here, Taylor, is these things, the, the government does these things and then it doesn't work out. Well, I guess the data center has decided they want to move into this industrial park and they had A similar situation where this commission that representatives from all these counties have a board that decides what, what happens with this industrial park. Well, this data center decided they want to come in. And, and it was the, the community was a little bit blindsided, just like here. And he had a guy's. I had his name, have his name here. Eric Cheney. He's a Boyd Boyd, county judge, executive, whatever that means. I, I County commissioner, maybe, I don't know. But he, he was on there talking about it, and it was very refreshing. Taylor, you go back and, and listen to that. But he was basically saying, look, I understand all of the reservations with these data centers, and I guess they all had to when they were talking with this company about doing this. And every question that Tom had that was, you know, most of the general questions that people have concerns about this, he had answers and he was very honest. And he said, look, you know, I know that these. And he said these words, dailies, because I know in areas like Virginia and across the country, these data centers have destroyed communities. And we did everything we could to ensure that that wasn't going to happen here. And he basically said, you know, they've promised them that the water system, they fill up their system once it's filtered and they, they use that water for 10 years and they dispose of it through EPA standards and then they fill it back up every 10 years. That company is paying 100 for, from all, for all of the infrastructure upgrades for the electrical stuff. They have a signed agreement with AEP that they've confirmed that they are going to pay for all these upgrades, the electrical usage. They've. AEP told this board that the usage from the data center isn't going to raise rates for the other people, you know, the, the ratepayers in, in the area. And he said that they did their due diligence. And he said, I don't see how this is going to negatively affect the community. The sound issue, it's going to be in this industrial park that's not going to be any louder than an aluminum factory that nobody seemed to have a problem with. Back to my point earlier. And so, you know, it was kind of refreshing to hear this, you know, local politician basically say, look, I have all the same reservations everybody else does. I live in this community. My kids go to school here. It's not like I'm, like going to move away. I'm affected by this, too. And I think this is going to be a value to the area. And so, I mean, if you're going to talk about governments having control over this stuff, which people have, they've elected these people. The community seems to be, this is what people want. They want their government deciding these kind of things. So it was, I keep using the word, but it was refreshing to hear a politician not be condescending to his constituents. And, and you know, so I don't know what the next point on that would be. It was just be like that, that's, that's an example of, you know, a local politician understanding that he needs to sell this to his constituents. And so, yeah, and he even said, Taylor, that because of all of this negative press and the secrecy, he said, and he, he brought it up, he said probably 99% of the calls and emails that he's got about those data centers have been negative. And he understands that. He's like, I don't know what else to do about it. I've done my due diligence. This is the job I've been given. We made this decision and it'll be on my back if it turns out horribly. So I just found that very interesting in juxtaposition to what our state is doing here.
- [14:48]
B
Yeah, it's a pretty novel idea for that type of honesty and transparency and accountability. But you know, and that's not as blessed as Kentucky as with, with their politicians.
- [15:02]
A
And that's, that's the thing, that's the thing, Taylor, like that it seems to me, you know, I'm pretty, you know, skeptical and cynical with this stuff, you know, by nature. But a lot of the issues, like you said, it seems like, and again, we don't know because you're just hearing what's being said because none of them have been built yet. This new style of data center, I'm hearing they've addressed all the issues people have a problem with. And again, I don't know if that's true or not. But to my point earlier, I don't know if you drive through Charleston or like, you know, the, the, the chemical belt there, through the, on the Ohio and Canal river there. I mean you've got all kinds of noisy stuff, pollution and people are working there. It's not like they've been shut down. So it's like, what do you, why is this suddenly a concern?
- [15:55]
B
And not only that, the one that I saw, it was a tick tock or a real, this guy driving through, I guess it was near the one in Putnam county where they're clearing the land and everything. And it was just like, oh, you know, we had these beautiful rolling hills or you know, now we have this massive flat land. You know, it was a construction site. It was, I mean, I mean, very, very phase one. Like just, you know, are leveling the. And he was like, oh, it's so hideous. And you know, all this stuff, it's like, well, yeah, buddy. I mean first of all, it's, they're moving dirt still and you know, that's never like aesthetically pleasing. So I don't know what you expect if they were building that or they were built, you know, clearing ground for a park or an elementary school or anything else that they probably would, you know, appreciate. But to your point, drive through the Chemical Valley. Drive through, you know, insert industrial area of West Virginia here. And it's not something pretty to look at a lot of these things. You know, manufacturing is not sexy, at least on the, on the outside, right?
- [17:01]
A
Maybe not you,
- [17:05]
B
but it's like that's, that's one of the one that's like a burn my crawl. It's like, oh well, it's just so ugly to look at and we're, you know, degrading our natural landscape and blah, blah, blah. And it goes, you know, takes me back to the mountaintop removal fights and arguments that we had in debates back in the day when that was a big, you know, buzz phrase. But it's like, you know, I grew up in southern West Virginia. You know, I had family and friends and, and traveled for, you know, playing sports and whatnot all throughout that region. And there were towns ty that if they didn't have reclaimed mine sites to build upon, there would be no flat land whatsoever for anything larger than like, you know, a gas station or you know, maybe a school. So you, sometimes some of this quote unquote development is necessary for, you know, the economy to grow. And I think we, and I know we talked about this on the, our last podcast about this. My fear is that the footprints of these things are going to be drastically overstated due to the advance in the technology in the next 10 to 15 to 20 years. And I'm, I am like, I'm say concerned, but I think it's going to be realized. But the whole, oh, it's so, you know, unattractive. It's like, well, you know what industry is generally unattractive, you know, unless you're putting in a small mom and pop shop of some sort and you know, zoned in downtown, you know, Huntington, Morgantown, whatever, it's not going to be good, you know, great to look at. But the benefit is it's tax based revenue Again, we're not for taxes or anything, but it's revenue for your area, it's jobs for your area. And sometimes it comes with a five or, you know, several minutes of your drive or your commute that you don't enjoy looking at as much as you did prior to. But, you know, progress has some of these things.
- [18:59]
A
Yeah. And in, in Mason county, where they're big, building that Google site, last week when we had all that rain here, we had about a week of rain and some areas had like flood level rain and that news flash, central West Virginia, these areas, they flood. Like we get lots of rain and it floods. Like it's not a. It's not abnormal. Every single year this happens. And there was a site, that site where that Google's going in. They had an immense amount of rain. The runoff that was normally caught by whatever natural, you know, topography is there, well, it backed up and it flooded. Flooded people's houses that normally have never been flooded before. And there's all these, you know, videos going around the Internet. It's on local news and people are saying, yeah, this is what you get with data centers. And I'm like, that's what you get with construction sites where they've maybe not done the correct amount of, you know, mitigation to prevent that from happening. But immense amount of rains like that. When you have construction sites that aren't complete with all the permanent drainage, you have issues like that. And is that bad? Yes. And the news reports I've heard, Taylor is statement from the construction company said they are liable and they will pay for damages. Like a volunteered statement from the company said we will pay for all damages. So it's like, that's okay. Like that even. That's like rare. Like, okay, what do you want me to say? Yeah, construction site had a lot of water that ran off and flooded people's houses. Yeah, that sucks. And if the data center wasn't coming. Yeah, that wouldn't have happened. But if a TJ Maxx moved in there and they removed all the topsoil and all the topography, it would have happened. So it's like this, like you said, it's construction. Yeah. Sometimes companies don't do the correct mitigation. It's not like I was talking to a friend of ours that is in the Libertarian Party and we're both, you know, in kind of in the, the trades a little bit, and he was talking about an eastern panhandle. I was like, yeah, all these like townhouses that go up, like they don't have good mitigation either. And they're always flooding and they remove all the topsoil and there's always issues with ground moving is like, because they don't do a good job. Like, this isn't new. Yeah. Sometimes construction companies do shoddy work. Is that a problem? Yes, but it's not unique to data center construction. So it's like even when you want to be on somebody's side, you're like, hey, but this isn't like this ain't it like just anything with the word data center in it and you lose your mind. You're not selling your side. You're making you sound like you know, the boy that cried wolf. Like it does. It doesn't help your point when you. But, but, but to the other side, this is what these government officials have done. They've created this general malaise about data centers. So now it's going to be negative no matter what happens. And that's their fault. They didn't sell it. So, so, yeah, and Taylor, to me, it's like we're not even discussing like the general idea of data centers. And we did, like you said, we've discussed the whole, like, my main issue and yours as well is the idea that you're building all of these giant factories for, for data. Data factories. And the technology is going to move and we're already seeing, you know, more, you know, diverse ways to process this data, people using individual computers, things like that. And so you're going to have a weirdon where you have giant, you know, still, still, I can never say this word. Steel mills that are empty.
- [22:34]
B
There you go.
- [22:35]
A
And it's going to create a rust valley. And you know, okay, so this is, that's, that's an issue that they're not considering. You're going to be depending on revenue that might disappear in 10 years and you're going to build infrastructure just like southern West Virginia did with the coal companies. And you're going to build out all this infrastructure and then not have money to maintain it. That's, that's my main rub with the whole, like, economic issue with it. But like data centers. Yeah, I don't think AI and all of this technology. I think if you surveyed most people our age, if they said if you go back and the Internet never existed, would you, if you had a button that said I can go back and make the Internet not exist and nobody knows it existed, most people our age would go, yeah, that probably wouldn't be such a bad thing. Like if we just didn't never knew it existed. I mean, the world functioned perfectly fine before the Internet and it's caused a lot of problems and our, you know, fracturing of our communities. People don't have. I think. I don't. I read this statistic about gen zers. There's some, like, disturbing amount of people that have, like, significant others that they've never met. Like, they have boyfriends and girlfriends, like, just on the Internet and they have never met them. It was like a disturbing number of people. And I'm like, this is like, why is that good? Like, what do we. Like, how is that a positive thing? And all of these data centers and all this stuff is just moving into more technological. And I'm not a Luddite, but when you're, you're going to be getting rid of a ton of jobs just because, just because we can, they're not going to be done better. It's just AI doing the same job. And then people aren't going to have jobs and we're going to do universal basic income, like, and just mathematically universal basic income doesn't make any sense. And that's not how people work. Like, I don't know if you've heard Joe Rogan says it all the time. And it drives me insane. Just, you know, people are going to have time to do what they want to do. And I'm like, do you think people don't have time to do what they want to do now? What do people choose to do, Taylor? Play video games and do nothing and look at pornography on the Internet? Like, that's what they're going to do. They're going to take that universal basic income and do nothing. How is that helping society? Like, we're going to get a sudden, like, influx of like, Monet's and people creating beautiful music. No, that's not what's going to happen. There's a certain popular group of the population that's like, they're going to do nothing because their lot in life is manual labor. And people don't want to hear that. But yeah, that's just true. So what do we. Like, that's just my social commentary on it, but we try not to really get into that because it, that's not the libertarian take on it or whatever. It's just. And maybe it, maybe it should be. I don't know. There's plenty of people in like, our sphere that have these cultural discussions about it, but I, I don't know. What do you think about that side of it? I don't know.
- [25:43]
B
The fact that you hate technological advance in general.
- [25:46]
A
No, I don't. See that's the thing. I don't. I just don't think that like moving our, moving our entire like economy all of the sudden just because we suddenly have been able, like people were just sitting around itching for AI and like they don't want, like nobody wants to work. Like, it's just, like it's just, I don't know, it's just been this weird sudden zeitgeist of like movement because AI exists now. We need to suddenly like make everything run by AI. Like and everybody's just accepted it. Like it's a. But we, we're doing it to it. We're doing it. Our government is doing it. They're actively promoting data centers as this thing in a state where our entire existence has been based around working with our hands and making things and doing things. And so you're going to change our economy that's been stagnant to more stagnant. Like what. How's that help anybody to have more revenue for infrastructure when people are already were riddled by a drug addiction, we're riddled by poverty and suddenly McDowell county is going to be helped because of data centers. Like what, what's the, how is that cultural or economically viable?
- [27:05]
B
Yeah. So first I just want to go back to the runoff mitigation liability thing just to highlight that that's the libertarian approach to a lot of this development in general in terms of the economy, is that the government shouldn't be in the business of regulating or denying opportunities of any type of industry to come in to an area and that their role should be to enforce liability in a, in a civil sense, in the courts in case those companies do cause harm to the community and or their immediate neighbors. So just to highlight or reiterate that on all the other stuff that you just went on about, you know, I've been saying I had concerns about AI and the impact on society in terms of at least the workforce and the economy in that regard. The replacement of not just, you know, blue collar things that we're seeing robotics being able to do in a rapid scale, but now in terms of white collar jobs also, and grave concerns about what that will do, you know, within the next five to ten years as AI does expand. Obviously libertarian approaches not is to not limit the expanse or development of any type of industry and its impact. It's definitely easy to say that there's a lot of harm being done, there's a lot of bad that's coming about from this, but I think in a very similar stance as you know, we take to illicit drugs and things along those lines. Yeah, it's not great for you probably shouldn't do them, but should the government be in the business of regulating them or let's say prohibiting them in any sense? It's probably not best either. But yeah, I mean, I think this is just the general advance of society and technology and I think it's important for folks to have conversations like this about what the impacts are, how to embrace and prepare ourselves for them both in terms of individuals. To your sense about, you know, is it great that you have a girlfriend that you've never seen in person and you've only, you know, I mean that's where the whole show catfishing came from. Right. So and, or the next stage to your, to this conversation, is it a good idea to have a boyfriend or girlfriend that's completely AI and what the hell does that do to your psyche and you know, emotional regularities and how you interact with other people? I mean, I think, you know, one of the things that you're seeing is working for the university, I see it quite a bit is that technology, this is even before AI has come along, is that the utilization and the reliance upon technology and the Internet and social media and that type of communication has eroded the ability for individuals to have the quote unquote soft skills that are oftentimes necessary and in certain industries and businesses to where that is, you go from technical skills being so vital for being hired and the job force and all that to now companies are saying, oh, you know, we don't necessarily need you to have a four year degree. We'll teach you on the job the skills that you need to be successful working for, you know, company Y, I'd say X, but that actually is a company now. But what why don't you be able to do is be able to sit down in a room and have a conversation with somebody face to face.
- [31:04]
A
Right.
- [31:05]
B
And not be paralyzed by social anxiety and sell them on our product. And that is a drastically diminishing skill set. And I think that's only going to be getting worse as we rely on technology more and more. And you know, I think it's upon us rational individuals who see this coming to not only prepare ourselves but you know, in your sense and others prepare children for what this means down the road and that you're going to encounter more and more people who can't tie their shoes unless a robot does it for them. Kind of, you know, world that we're going to be relying on it. You know, it was always funny that growing up in the past 20 years or so, becoming an adult, it's like how prevalent skills like changing your own tire were and what it meant to be able to, you know, go, if you went out on a date and, or you're dating someone and they had a flat tire, to be the person that could go and save the day by changing a tire. You know, that same conversation I was having with my friend about the data centers we talked about, those people just don't exist anymore. Those, those men rarely exist. And it's going to be, it's gonna be easy to see people standing out in this new quote, unquote age. But bring it back to the point of this podcast. It's not for us to necessarily or utilize the government to weaponize the government to prohibit, but just prepare society to prepare ourselves to stand out and survive in whatever technological dystopia we're on the precipice of.
- [32:51]
A
Well, but here's the thing though is I think we've kind of moved from this and, and where I think some of the culture warriors on the right have a point is the, the difference between us and them is we, like you just said, is we don't think the government has a role in doing it. Understand that the government is, is doing their best to accelerate the things we don't want to happen. These, this discussion, the, the ramble I just had and then the points you just made are being accelerated by the, the centralized control of economy and culture. And, and people want to separate culture and economy. But here's the deal. They aren't like you just said, the, the complete rejection of industry and blue collar jobs and people working with their hands to, you know, you got to go to college, you got to do this, you need to learn how to use a computer, you need to be on the Internet, you need to be smart. You're, you're not going to be, you know, a low iq, blue collar worker. That's, that's for the plebs. And we've moved to this society where, you know, people don't know how to do anything. You can't, nobody can even look you in the eye. They can't shake your hand, they don't know how to talk to anyone. And these are all issues, these are all, you know, skills that are real. Like, this is an economic issue and government has decided that they're go, they have forced people. And this is why school choice is such a Huge thing is, is you've decided to create this, this, this class of people that are supposed to be highly educated. You miss the part where you educate them and then you stick them in college and the college makes money off of graduating them. And I'm sure you've seen this, Taylor. You have college graduates that aren't any smarter than people in, you know, the 50s that had an eighth grade education because we've industrialized this, this education economy and the government has subsidized it through student loans. So you've got a class of people that have no real skills. They're, you know, minimum $50,000 in debt from student loans. They can't get a job that pays more than, you know, $18 an hour, so they can't pay their student loans. And that is all a direct result of government deciding it's going to, you know, place itself in all of these various economies and force, you know, what these bureaucrats have decided, what needs to do. So it's not just a matter of a cultural, our discussion about what we think AI should do or what we, where we think it should move. It's a, it's none of it. Just like our, we've talked about with the foreign policy stuff is if it was just Iran losing its mind and deciding to attack everybody, sure. But our fingerprints are all over everything in that situation and the government's fingerprints are all over everything. And what's going on right now with, you know, the cultural economic issues we're having in this country right now. And, and it is a real issue. And like you said, Taylor, being able to change a tire, like, you know, growing. I always say God blessed me and my brother by moving us to West Virginia because we're, you know, it's one of those things where that, what Sun Tzu's, if you know the way broadly, you'll know the way broadly. And you'll find it in all things is basically jack of all trades, you know, and people use that as a derogatory thing. But, you know, when you get a flat tire or something happens, you know, when you live in a place like we live and you grow up on the holler and you don't have, you know, a grocery store or a Home Depot or autozone, like right down the road, you learn to make do. You're on the side of the road and you don't have cell phone service and your carjack won't work, you run over the hill and find a rock in a tree branch and you use leverage and you get Your car up off the ground and put it on the rock and change your tire, like those kind of things, like, which seems stupid. How many people do you know, Taylor, that don't even have a concept of what a lug nut is, let alone being able to use a chunk of guardrail you find on the side of the road to do use as a tool? Like, and that seems like it, like, like an off topic thing, but it's like, no, we're not teaching people these skills. And this is a direct result of interventions. It's not. It. That's, that's not a fake thing. It's. And I know it's a cliche that, you know, oh, you got to get people in the trades. Well, I was having discussion with somebody that I know that's in the trades and, and I've seen it. Is these young people even going into the trades, they're being coddled through these apprenticeships. They're not really learning the skills and they're not learning the, the social aspect of having to, like, create a certain toughness when you're doing these. This work, because it is hard work. So it's not just college kids. It's all of these different sectors are being affected by what these interventions have done to culture. And I know that seems like a, you know, we want to act robotic and say that culture is something different, but it's all related. I mean, I don't, I don't know if that makes any sense, but it just seems like this is just the ultimate extension of that progression and we're just accepting it.
- [37:55]
B
Yeah. You know, I, I joke with people talking about this that we're headed one of two ways and maybe we'll have both at some point, but one, you have kids. Did you ever see the, the movie Wally?
- [38:07]
A
Yeah.
- [38:09]
B
So we're, you know, we're gonna be headed towards Wally or like some Mad Max society when, you know, we get so reliant upon everything that we become idiom. Yeah, we become the, you know, the fat people rolling around on our chairs, getting our pills and just watching TV all day because AI and computers do everything else for us. And then when that collapses due to some, you know, reason, we try to then be the few skilled among us will turn the world into Mad Max dystopian. So enjoy it while what we have. While it lasts, basically.
- [38:43]
A
Yeah. Yeah. No, you're right. And that's the thing. It's. Hey, Buster's driving by. School's over, buddy. But the funny thing to me is, you know, my Son and my daughter. My son yesterday was out with our neighbor working in the hay field. He's driving the tractor with the equipment and, and the, the stuff that. And I, Everybody I. He's around, always said, wow, he's really impressive. He's 12 years old and he can do all this stuff. And I'm like, yeah, I'm trying to give him, you know, the funny thing you want for your kids more than what you had. I'm trying to give him the advantage that I didn't have. Like, I started way later than him learning all this stuff. And he's 12 years old and, you know, there's very little, you know, he understands mechanics. He understands. He's learning the things. Like I'm talking about, like the know the way, broadly thing when you know how to use tools and you know how to use specific things. It's. It's a lot easier for me when somebody says, well, do you know how to run this? And I go, well, I've never done it, but I mean, if you just show me where the levers are, like, give me, give me 30 minutes and we'll. I'll have a basic understanding of what's going. And that's. I'm. I'm not bragging. I'm just saying, like, in the, in that world, that's going to be an extreme advantage. In the scenario you're talking about in the not too distant future when you can drive a standard transmission or you can get on a tractor and you know how it works, or you know how a piece of equipment works, or, or, you know, hey, that looks super dangerous. Because I understand leverage and mechanics and the basic physics of the world, and I'm not going to get near that thing. You know what I mean? And that's. Taylor, I'm sure you've been. There's people with no situational awareness. Did you see the video of that recent shooting at the White House?
- [40:24]
B
Yeah.
- [40:25]
A
Well, that reporter, there's. It's clearly gunshots, like, blah, blah, blah,
- [40:30]
B
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
- [40:31]
A
And this reporter standing up going, look the most. Like, if you look up the word confused in the dictionary, this woman's face will be it next to that word. And she's just like, what is. What's that? What is that? What is that? And so many doctors like, hey, hey, get. Get down. Like, clearly this is gunshots and this woman has no situational awareness. No, like, even me, like, I probably would because I'm. There's something wrong with me. I'd be like, you Know, looking like meerkat, like, whoa, what's that? But, but in an, in the opposite way, like I want to know where the gun is coming from. But she doesn't even understand the concept of what gunfire sounds like. So it's like you've created this class of people. This is the woman reporting what's going on at the White House, like what's evidently the most important place on planet Earth now for everyone. She doesn't know what gunfire sounds like or have the, you know, wherewithal to hear loud noises and be like, hey, that sounds scary. Like, that's like when you hear gunfire, like around here, it's a little bit different. But even, even here out in the country, if I hear a rifle go off, I, oh, they must have shot a groundhog. But I recognize that that's a weird noise happening, you know what I mean? Like, and I know that's a little bit of a. But that's, that's the. It's getting bad, Taylor.
- [41:50]
B
Yeah, so I, Well, I agree with that wholeheartedly. I do want to push back on the one comment you made about like the government, you know, pushing this per se. While I see your point in West Virginia, I think obviously our politicians in Charleston are trying to capitalize on this in a way that maybe some other states aren't. But I'll just. My free market position is that, I mean, I think a lot of these things, they're happening anyways. Business, industry are driving a lot of this and partly due to the fact because governments have put stupid things in place like regulations and minimum wage laws and all the rest where, you know, the, the cost of employing someone to do menial tasks like be an executive assistant or secretary or what have you, or as I was mentioning my fearful future entry level CPA or paralegal or you know, whatever, you know, the cost of employing those individuals, especially with, you know, now that they require four year degrees and so on and so forth, that's really expensive. And you can get now an AI bot or agent or whatever you call now to do 80% of those tasks for basically free industry is driving the, you know, the need.
- [43:15]
A
But Taylor, that's all connected to government, every bit of it. Why does it, why does it cost so much?
- [43:22]
B
Yeah, that's my point. You. All these things government has done in the past has driven the need or the advancement faster than we have.
- [43:32]
A
Yeah.
- [43:32]
B
So I was just putting back on, pushing back slightly on that. This isn't just Charleston trying to, you know, push data centers, you know, down the throats of the various hills and haulers of West Virginia, these things are needed. And putting that in air quotes, needed by industry. They're going to go somewhere. Whether they're, you know, in Putnam county or West Virginia or they're in Marietta, Ohio, it's going to go somewhere. And I think what better or worse, what the delegates and senators in Charleston are doing are trying to get us a piece of that pie that is being gobbled up by other states. Now, some states, due to the backlash and outcry of, of their, you know, more liberal and environmental concerns, etcetera, Citizens are looking at banning them and excluding them from that pie. We have more of an opportunity to fight for and capitalize on. But, yeah, I don't think it's necessarily just, oh, this is being forced down our throats from Charleston and we wouldn't have it otherwise. The marketplace has created this. It's coming whether we like it or not. It's just a matter of how much and how much and how is West Virginia impacted by it?
- [44:51]
A
Well, I'll push back on that because I don't think any of this is real, Taylor. So if you, if you listen to the reports like you're hearing, you know, the. Who's the Shark Tank guy?
- [45:03]
B
Shoot, which one?
- [45:04]
A
The, the bald guy.
- [45:07]
B
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Mr. Wonderful.
- [45:09]
A
Yeah. So he's. There's a big thing now because he's. And Tucker Carlson interviewed him and he's opening up a data center in Utah. And, and he's. His big thing that he was pushing is we need to beat China. We've got to beat China. China's doing it. We're trying to, you know, win this race and we don't want them controlling. Blah, blah, blah. You've heard all these, these selling points. Well, I don't know if you know this, but we have like upwards of like a thousand more data centers already in, in America than any other country. And the next one down is Germany. China's not even in the top five. And you could talk about the technology of AI being an issue, but these data centers, I don't know what's going on, Taylor, because I'm not smart enough to, like, know all the different reasons they would want to do something like this. But there's something going on with these data centers that we don't know about and maybe they don't even know about. But. And it might be simple as the market has just decided that data centers need to happen and it's being driven because that's the Thing, Taylor, is our economy isn't really driven by reality anymore. You understand like when you read the stock market and all these different things and, and you have people that are just spending money and investing in the next thing and, and they want the, the ROI and, and, and all of these projections and it's not based on like person want thing, pay money for thing. It's. Well, we got to diversify and do it. Like all of these different things we've heard about and all these stereotypical, you know, cliche stock market, you know, pop words that we don't know anything about and you and I don't understand, but these data centers don't seem to make a lot of sense for all the reasons we've talked about. Plus we're already well ahead of most other countries. But we can't make a microprocessor. Like we can't make a chip. But we're building data centers to what, fill full of Taiwanese. What, what are they? They're not processors that whatever the chips are, they are. Yeah, the word I'm looking for, I can't remember what I'm looking for, but anyway, yeah, semiconductors. Like we can't make them. They've tried. They're trying to make them here. They opened up a factory in Texas and they said that we can't make them because we're too stupid, basically. And so like what, like, you know what I mean? You understand what I'm saying? Like there's something bigger going on here and it's not driven by what you, I don't think it's being driven by what you're saying. Like that's what we, that's what we've been trained to believe. But I think we're, we're past economics here. Like we're past like supply and demand. What the industry wants, they're being told that's what they need. And what is a data center really going to do for that? Nobody can give you an answer, Taylor. Nobody can give you an answer of what these data centers are going to have in them. They don't even, they can't even tell you who's going to be running them or if anybody has even, you know, committed to being in them other than the one that Google's running. So it's like there's, there's, there's variables that we're not being told. For me to be able to make an assessment of this even being a real market driven thing where this isn't just pretend money shuffling like a giant game of like money laundering. So there's something going on that we're not being told. And while your point stands, in a logical world, I don't know that this makes any sense. In a logical world that they're doing this. It's like data center. This is what we decided needs to happen. The government has decided that this is a priority for them. And so there's all this money being put into all of these contracts for all these AI companies with the government for one. And it just doesn't. None of it really computes to me. And maybe I'm just an idiot, but like, do you really need, you know, giant, massive data centers for, you know, whoever Amazon to have clerical workers? Like their computer can do that. Like you can run a script in Excel to do a lot of these jobs already. There's already. And Taylor, you know, sorry, that tangent, and I'll let you respond, but the, the whole idea of ubi and I can't remember who said it, but basically we already have UBI because there's so many jobs. And you know this, I know this. There's so many jobs that don't need to exist. There's somebody that could come in for 30 minutes a day and run an Excel script to do whatever the payroll is and then go home. But they work full time and they have benefits because they can't get people to work because they have to have a full time job and the profit makes it so that they can afford to pay that person. That's basically ubi. Somebody's being paid to do a job that doesn't need to really exist. And we already have that with like the processor that the computer has already, the 500 computer they bought from, you know, a contractor. So that, that part of it's like this whole economy is like just ready to catch on fire and burn to the ground. Yeah, respond.
- [50:08]
B
I just, I actually have AI listening to you and I'm reading the response.
- [50:11]
A
It's confused.
- [50:15]
B
My first thought when you said it's not real was like, well, how are they powering all these bird drones?
- [50:21]
A
Right? Why? Yeah, why are the bird drones here?
- [50:28]
B
But no, on a serious, on a serious note, two things. One, I don't think I'm maybe as much of a, what's your word? Luddite that, I mean, I have a general understanding of the need for this and the computing powers necessary. I do believe that as I mentioned earlier, the concern is that we're building these giant footprints that technology will bring us to. We're already seeing individual data centers are like being people renting out their, their computers to do some of these things. And when they're not being utilized by you and I are your personal laptops or personal desktops where you can basically keep them running. And these companies are coming in remotely and like running them behind the scenes to do some of the stuff that they need done. So I do understand to some extent that there is a necessity for massive amounts of computing to happen. What it's being used for I don't notice always and especially my concerns are the ones that are being utilized in leased or whatever by the government and what it's. This goes into the topic that we discussed offline beforehand, but obviously aren't going to get to today, which is like the Flock cameras and all the data that the government is taking, you know, from us on a regular basis without our knowledge or it's being sold to them by state and local governments and the police and other entities. But anywho. So I do understand that there's some, you know, some of the need for it. I think with especially the data industry that exists and there's obviously a lot of concerns, a lot of questions to be asked, a giant lack of transparency to some extent. And some of that, you know, the libertarian approach is going to be buyer beware and so on and so forth with who you do business with, what data you give up, what you know, you utilize it for and so on. But yeah, I mean, I don't know, man, like I said, I try not to think about it too much because I do go down these, for lack of a better phrase, rabbit holes of what is society going to look like in the next 10 years and how fast it's already taking over certain things of our lives. And I think, unfortunately to your point, more so than we have seen with Excel spreadsheets and other capabilities, that there's going to be a drastic insurgence and what's the phrase, just shock to our system in terms of what employment is and what people do for a living you're talking about. And I don't know that we're ready to adjust. And you know, I was just reading an article yesterday that talked about something, the concern or fear that I've always had about the impact of, you know, AI's reduction in force and things like the trucking industry and what that's going to do to small towns and, and roadside towns across the country that exists solely as truck stops and pit stops along the way. I don't know. You're gonna see a rise of Quote unquote ghost towns like what we have in West Virginia, the old coal towns. A lot of these places are going to be evascerated, eviscerated, eviscerated by, by AI and its impact on, on society and the economy. So try to again prepare yourself as an individual, as a family to be able to survive, you know, whatever changes are coming. Because I think they're gonna be coming a lot faster than we've seen any other impact. Because the last great economical impact of society was the birth of the Internet. Right? And you're talking about it, what we were like before we survived and we were great without it. But you know, for all its woes, it was a drastic impact on, on society, on and on and on the economy. And I think this one is going to be one on a much larger scale, maybe even exponentially larger once it's more fully realized and util realized.
- [54:36]
A
Yeah, I guess I just, just to, you know, just make my point more succinct is I think this is a giant bubble. I think that it is obviously going to create, you know, a change and it already has. But I, I, I predict that they, they are shooting themselves in the foot and that just like with the dot com bubble and all these other bubbles we've seen, we're creating this giant bubble that's record breaking. And I, I, I just think that they're doing a lot of this stuff just because that's what they like people were buying up dot coms, people were. And that's just the one I can think of because it was in my, you know, young adult life where I saw this happen. But you keep on seeing these bubbles, housing bubbles, people buying up housing, you know, leveraging all these housing things. Then you have a bubble and this is, you know, multi trillion dollar bubble that they're building out all this infrastructure because that's what they're being, you know, incentivized to do by this fake market. And that's all I'm saying as I don't think a lot of it is as real as they're saying it is because people, everybody's speaking in this vague way about data centers and AI and this, you know, market and all of these pop words that we're hearing that the, the reality part of it is, is mostly already exists and, and you know, just fine tuning what it can do I think is something that's real. But I think a lot of this is, you know, the exponential part of it, of the data center part of it is like the amount of Data that these things are, they say they're going to be processing to your points. Like, well, I don't know what they're going to be doing. Yeah, I've not heard anybody say anything about what they're going to be doing. Like quantum physics, is that what we're talking about? Like, that's my part of it is I just predicted it's a massive bubble and they're, they're going to make it. They're going to make what potential? It has a MOOC point because the bubble is going to burst and we're going to lose a lot of that potential. I think that's my prediction. I could be wrong. It's not going to happen next year. It could be 10 years, who knows? But I think that bubble is going to pop and a lot. We're going to be stuck with the bag in, in West Virginia and a lot of these states. And know, in the bizarro world, you know, sometimes when governments, they get it right, sometimes when they're doing their tyrannical thing and they've decide that things don't need to happen by fiat and then they happen to be right. So maybe, you know, some of these states that are banning these data centers, they might be in an advantage in 10 years. I don't know. And, you know, that's, I don't like to say that just simply because of our, you know, main general, you know, premise of what the role of government is. But our government is already making that decision. So, so one government's making the decision to support data centers, the other government's deciding to ban them. So I guess we'll see who wins out in the end. But it's just my prediction that this is going to be a massive bubble. That's all. That's all I'm saying.
- [57:18]
B
Oh, no. And I agree wholeheartedly with that and I think it'll probably be one, much bigger than what we saw in 2000 and 2008. But we and all the libertarians who are listening to us know and understand the boom, the natural boom, bust cycle of economies. I think, as you know, certain things like this come around to the points where we've been discussing. I, I believe, and I think you are agreeing or making the same point of the scale of which I don't think we've seen before. My concern is obviously when it does happen, because it will, you know, the, the small aspects of everyone investing in this will be bought up and then there'll be kind of a lot of people be left high and dry in a lot of situations like we saw with the, with the Internet bubble. And what reaction overreaction does our government take exactly? I, I anticipate it to be drastically worse than, and probably need to be again based on the concerns that I mentioned about the displacement of not just blue collar but white collar individuals, something to the scale of the New Deal. Because I expect the impact could probably could possibly be as, as dire and drastic as the, the Great Depression. I hope it's not, or Matt or yeah, who knows. But I definitely believe, and I fear that that is the likely outcome of all this is that the bus will be so large that there will be a knee jerk reaction by the government, whatever, either Democrat or Republican, mind you, because we saw how a Republican government reacted to Covid.
- [59:00]
A
Right.
- [59:01]
B
So I, I fear for that. But the other thing, you know, again, it's just, you know, I don't say comical for poetically ironic maybe, but again, going back to that conversation I was having with my buddy, he's from the Northern Panhandle and he was talking about, he's, you know, all these people who are complaining about not my backyard and, and the impact of these data centers going in where they're going and complaining about how they look. He was like, we have so much brownfield sites up in the northern Panhandle from all these steel mill still.
- [59:30]
A
You can't say it either.
- [59:31]
B
Yay, eel mills that are just abandoned and are no longer needed because of the, you know, growth and of the industry or whatever that they could have easily came there and put them on those, you know, if the government was smart and thinking about okay, where, where is it going to have the least impact in terms of aesthetics or so on and so forth. The sites, I imagine the footprint is probably pretty similar in size if not could have been adjusted somewhat, but it's like those kind of things. It's like the government does things the benevolent nature they try to be and it's like they're so short sighted they, you know, miss the forest for the trees kind of situations too. So anyway, those are two points I wanted to make. But yeah, I think buckle in and hold on. And maybe our next episode won't be about data centers.
- [60:29]
A
Yeah, no, it's, it's a, it's just a thing, man. But it goes back to, in conclusion, it just goes back to our point of every time that the, every time there's a problem or an opportunity, the government seems to need to get involved and it can't just let well enough alone and Let, let markets decide. And it's not just our West Virginia government. It's from the top to the bottom. It's if, you know, I'd like to see how things shake out. But when, you know, the government's the one shaking everything, nothing turns out well. And isn't it, I mean, name a time that it went well? I mean, I don't, I just don't know. It just every time that they say it goes well, there's a thousand other, you know, second, third and fourth order effects that are destroying communities. So it's, I don't know, man. It's, it's not all doom and gloom. I mean, we can, in West Virginia, we have an opportunity to kind of live in places where we can avoid some of that. But I don't know, it's just it. There's too many questions. I guess that's the basic general premises. There's too many questions that our government officials don't seem to be able to answer. So, yeah, I mean, I, I understand everybody's resident rep. I'm not even going to try to use that. What. I'm just gonna take that word out of my vocabulary. Everybody's reluctance to just accept it and move on is. Everybody's got questions and, and the government doesn't have answers and they're the ones deciding that they're in charge of it. So you think they would have answers to questions. So. Yeah. But Taylor, in conclusion, you're running for the 13th Senate, Senate district of the West Virginia State Senate, and your name is Taylor Richmond.
- [62:01]
B
Those are both facts and you can find out more about Those facts@richmond4senate.com My general platform and stances on things are there. How to get a hold of me, my campaign, how to donate if you feel so inclined, greatly would appreciate any fiat currency that you would be willing to give. But also just reach out if you have questions about the campaign, if you'd like to help volunteer or want to know what I'm doing. Happy to touch base with you. Also on Facebook and TikTok Richmond, first Senate on the ladder. You can just find my blue Check Markey profile on Facebook at Taylor Richmond. So that's me, Ty. How's your House of Delegates race had going on down there?
- [62:51]
A
Yeah. So 15th House District for Wirt and Roan county and it's going pretty well, I guess. I mean I'm, I'm having, I'm getting out, talking to people in my, my day job on the Internet, on Facebook. Ty Ward for WV House. There's a donate button there as well. But I'm, I putting, giving some people some yard signs, I'm kind of waiting a little bit to put them out myself just so that the state road doesn't mow them over. But yeah, so it's going pretty good. I mean, I'm getting positive responses. I'm trying to be as pragmatic as I can be in my campaigning because, you know, hardcore libertarian politics is a little bit off putting for some people. But I'm getting a lot of positive feedback and you know, it's just, it's, it's going to be hard for, you know, any third party candidate to make an impact. But I'm going to do my best and I'm trying and I'm going to be getting out and you know, later in the summer, closer to the election and do some door knocking. That seems to be the, the universal thing I'm hearing from candidates is the best response they get is from people knocking on doors. So yeah, but yeah, again if you want to donate to my campaign, I would appreciate it. But if not, just give send positive vibes. Share what you see on social media, tell people that you may know from this area around in work counties about the, you know, the candidacy. So yeah, if you want to donate to this podcast, go to lpwb.org hit that donate button and leave a little note saying you enjoyed the podcast or please stop doing it, we hate you. And you can find the LPWV on Facebook, Instagram and X. Yeah, so we appreciate it. And until next time, don't hurt people and don't take their stuff.