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- [00:00]
A
Liberty Cast, I am your host, Ty Ward. I am joined as always by my co host, Taylor Big Dog Richmond. Hello, Taylor.
- [00:11]
B
Woof woof. What's up Ty?
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A
Long time no pod, buddy, as they say.
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B
Well, you didn't have to disclose that.
- [00:19]
A
They know. They know. Our our Scott Davidson's probably itching, scratching his neck like a meth addict waiting for a new new episode to drop.
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B
This is for you, Scott.
- [00:32]
A
Y We know you're in the messaging in the messenger. I've been messaging us because you don't have your podcast fix. Hey guys. Liberty. So yeah, we wanted to get on here and talk a little bit about what's going on West Virginia. But first I wanted to remind folks that you and I. Well actually I'm going to do this at the top. Taylor, if you want to to help us out on this podcast, please like and subscribe on whatever app you're on. We are available on all of your podcast catchers podcasters. Spotify is where we load this to but you can get us on itunes. Subscribe to any of that stuff. I don't know what all the ones people are using, but there's about a thousand of them out there now. And hit us up on Instagram, Facebook and what's the other one x that's almost said YouTube. We're not on YouTube. Not yet. And if you want to help us on this podcast, financially, we are a value for value podcast. Go to lpwv.org and hit that donate button and give us a donation or next subject. You can donate to one of our political campaigns. Taylor, tell the folks what you're doing and what they might be donating to.
- [01:52]
B
Yeah, thanks Ty. So for those of you who missed the last episode or have not been following along with myself and or the party at large, I have thrown my hat in the ring for West Virginia State Senate District 13. I believe it'll likely be based on early tea leaves. The most contentious post primary race. I know a lot of the primaries are going to are pretty heated and contentious, but in a general election sense I think this will probably be one of the most contentious races here in West Virginia. Senate 13 is greater Morgantown in Fairmont cities and the surrounding burbs if you will. And running against Mike Oliverio and John Williams are the likely folks coming out of those primaries. So I believe that the voters of the 13th need a small government, less taxes, more freedom candidate and until I threw my name in the hat, they didn't have that. So I'm looking forward to a very tough but you know, hard fought race and as you were alluding to, appreciate any support you folks are willing to give. My website is richmond4senate.com Please check it out and there's the donation pages up and live on there. So if you are willing to support the campaign, it's greatly appreciated.
- [03:17]
A
Yeah. And now Ty, your turn. Yeah. So I am running for West Virginia House of delegates in the 15th district. That is Roane county and most of work county, small district, but I'm running because my Republican counterpart was going to be running unopposed. And I think it is the time in Roane county for a, as you said, you know, small government, liberty minded. You know, you try not to use the word conservative just because of the connotations, but honestly, you know, we've said this before, Taylor. If the Republican Party governed based on their West Virginia GOP platform, I think you and I would both be Republicans. But they don't. The West Virginia GOP platform is pretty liberty minded. It's pretty libertarian and it's in just in the writing if you go down their bullet points, but they maybe cover one or two of them, guns and abortion. And that's pretty much it. And you know, we're small government guys. I'm. My big thing for Roane county is nothing the Republican party has done in the last decade has helped this county and we're county in any way really. I mean most of the stuff that's come here is because. Beep beep. Because of local stuff. Beep beep beep beep. What is that? For example, a local oil and gas guy who, he opened a gas station here about 15 years ago and he has just recently ponied up his own money to take what was a soccer field and turn it into a turf baseball field right in the middle of town. I mean this is. Taylor, you'd be kind of surprised at how nice it's going to be because I mean they're doing, they've already got a lot of the, the lighting poles up and stuff in the buildings. The main structure is built and it's going to be a really nice little ballpark in the middle of town. This guy has decided to completely front all the cost for it. And he's also, you know, not that this is really our deal, but he's putting up on top of one of the local parks here is a Civil War memorial. Well, he's putting up a giant like, I don't know, like 100 foot plag flag pole with this giant flag to go over the town. And he's flying.
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B
What flag?
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A
The Met. The stars and stripes, my friend.
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B
Okay.
- [05:37]
A
Yeah. Wow. The rainbow flag. Oh, man, that would be a disaster. But he's putting that up, and so that's the kind of stuff we want to see here. And giving people the opportunity to do that, I would be thrilled to be able to give somebody that does something like that. I don't know, maybe you, you know, you have to not pay income tax ever again. If you pony up $5 million for a baseball field, you don't ever have to pay taxes again. And those are the kind of things that I want to do is basically incentivize and throw out some legislation to be able to help the people of Roan and work county. And, you know, the areas of West Virginia that don't get talked about much. I mean, we hear about all the tiny violins being played for all the water issues across the state. And I'm not belittling that issue. That is a real issue. But in places like ours, I mean, most people have well water. We have decent, you know, city water in Spencer and some of the surrounding areas. And that's pretty much all you ever get. Every once in a while, you get a grant for a water line project expansion, and. And that's about it. And most of the people in West Virginia in these rural areas, they just want more freedom. They just want to be able to, you know, build something without having to worry about getting reassessed for more property taxes. You know, these little old ladies are having to struggle to pay their. For their medications because they have to pay these property taxes for their, you know, their family farms that are being operated by their kids or whatever. And. And they're struggling just to, you know, be able to keep what has been in their family for generations. And those are the kind of things that, you know, we really want to focus on and not just talk about it. That's the thing, Taylor, is that these Republicans talk about this stuff, but they never do anything. And the bills that get put up, they just kind of sit in committee forever, just eternally in committee. And then the next year, they might get brought back up again or not. And then we have our religious freedom stuff that, you know, it's kind of a. It's a mixed bag in a place like Roane County. But I think a lot of people, they understand that. They want to be able to make choices for their kids. And our school system has been completely, you know, torn apart here. And, you know, contrary to popular belief, Taylor, I think you agree with me, is that, you know, our state constitution demands public schools, and we want to make those public schools that are mandated by the constitution actually serve the purpose they were intended for. So, yeah, I don't have a website up yet, but I am working on getting a donation to put on Facebook or whatever. Share. You know, I'm not running a real big campaign, but I think I, I'm using this as an opportunity to get out and talk to people and kind of make them aware that there is another choice for people who think they're Republicans, but really the Republican Party has left them. And Taylor, I wanted to, you know, since we're on the topic, it's something that we've talked about, and this goes especially for West Virginia, but nationally, I don't remember what podcast I was listening to. And they were kind of talking about, might have been Tim Pool, but they were kind of talking about how, you know, Tim Pool used to be a, you know, a liberal guy and he was a Democrat and voted for Obama. And then, you know, he said, he basically said, you know, the, the Democrats have lost their mind. It's all about identity politics. And it's hard to support. It's impossible to support, you know, extreme socialism, you know, the Mandanis of New York and all these places. And what's going on with the Swalwell stuff. And the Democrat Party has just kind of gone completely, I don't know, a little bit nuts. And I don't know why I hadn't thought of this, but I think it's not that people are, and you can tell me if you agree, Taylor, but it's not that people have really changed. People like me and Tim Pool, we didn't really change the way we viewed things much in the last 10 or 15 years. It's just that the parties that the reason you and I can't be Republicans or Democrats because the Democrats lost their minds and the Republicans just kind of, this is the part that's kind of new in my mind. The Republicans just took the place of the Democrat Party nationally as well, because I'm sure you, you were more in the Republican zeitgeist growing up, but seemed the Republicans were always the party of, you know, I'm trying to think of some, you know, 80s 90s political figures, but Reagan, even him, he was pretty conservative compared to, to, to Trump and some of these more conservative people we have now.
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B
And think of Gingrich and some of those guys.
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A
Yeah, Gingrich. And, and, you know, Milton Friedman was really, really respected in Republican circles. And even most Republicans would, you know, praise Ron Paul and, and those people don't, aren't reflected in today's Republican Party at all. We're seeing nationally. I mean with FISA and all these spending bills and bragging about all giving states things and, and then the war stuff. I mean not that the Republican Party was always, you know, they were kind of always for war, but you know, we kind of saw some progress there and then it kind of took a, you know, 180 away from all the progress they had. But you know, I think that's one of the reasons that when people say why don't you just run as a Republican? Is because, you know, we have some Republicans in, in West Virginia and you know, nationally with your, Thomas Massey's, Rand Paul's, some, those like the like of those. But you know, the party in general is just, it's a lost cause. I mean, I don't know if you agree, but it just seems like what is the point in even trying to recover Republican party because it's 80 to 90%, I mean blue dog Democrat across the whole nation.
- [11:11]
B
Well, a couple of things. First, I'll say that I agree wholeheartedly with your take on the Democratic Party. I think especially the last 10 to 15, 20 years, the Democratic Party has been somewhat subjugated by a very liberal, socially, socially liberal stance and, and also even some more of like you said, mondamis and the AOCs on a socialistic communistic take on the economy. And they've really been kind of usurped a lot of times. And that's why I think you saw places like West Virginia kind of make this like what felt like an overnight flip from Democrat to Republican is because of that drastic shift in a hardworking blue collar union party to one that is so focused and identity politics driven in the national sense. And that drove a lot of folks away from the Democratic Party even at the local level because places like West Virginia and a lot of the southern Bible Belt, Rust Belt states, you have individuals who maybe do support some government safety nets. In our pro union and right to work and all that kind of stuff, they're anti right to work. But when they see some of these social stances that the party was taking, you know, you, you immediately as a candidate or even as an individual and sitting around your Thanksgiving table be like, oh well, you know, you're a Democrat, you must be like, you know, insert, you know, more crazed liberal politician here. And that drove a lot of folks towards the Republicans or towards Independents. I think part of the thing we're missing in this conversation is how many people have just kind of left the two party system and are our proud independence in West Virginia. Obviously, I think because being a smaller state and politics is local, to maintain some type of control or power or significance in the real politic in West Virginia, you had to change to be a Republican. And that's where I think we're seeing a lot of watered down Republicans in terms of their economic policy, their liberty, their stances on a lot of like first and second Amendment kind of things are very much more tied to old Democrat ways on, on the Republican side. I don't know, I feel like it's always been, and this is kind of my thing, one of my talking points with folks thus far and I've said it, you know, since being chair even, you know, Republicans in West Virginia and a lot national leave and will campaign as libertarians. You were mentioning it in the Republican Party platform a lot of Libertarian, at least pretty close to being libertarian bullet points or talking points about reducing the size and scope of government, privatization of major services and things related to the government opening up contracting to make more competitive for government jobs and industries that they kind of oversee. But then as you mentioned, Ty, the problem is you get those people saying those things on the campaign trail and they actually get to Charleston, it's almost not a full 180, but they'll just not do anything. So it's not so much that they're necessarily like reversing course and like oh well actually I'm going to vote in something drastically more liberal or liberal in an economic sense. They just don't do those things and they focus on, as they say on some of the talk shows, the red meat bills and the social issues that get people all riled up. We talked about we've got some good legislatures down in Charleston that are consistent. I think you're seeing some of that in the Freedom Caucus and whatnot. But I think really, and I don't know if it'll happen, I thought it was going to happen by now, it's kind of been staved off. But you know, next five to ten years a real fracturing in the two two party. And I don't know how much of it on the Republican side will be because of the current split we're seeing in the MAGA versus America first and the anti war side of the party. But I think you will definitely see more of a chasm being developing in the Democrat side between the identity politics folks who are very much on the social Issues and worried about those matters versus the hey, you know, almost libertarian. I don't care what you're doing, don't just leave me alone. But we needed to work on you know, these government safety programs and you know, government doing X, Y or Z. I can see the two, two parties splitting into four or some mix up with us and like the Green Party and a few others. But man, it's seeming to be getting to the cracks are showing a little bit more and more as the days go on.
- [16:14]
A
Yeah. And you know, I've been, I, you know, we tell people all the time that we're kind of a little bit political junkies. So I don't expect people to pay attention to a lot of the same stuff we do. But you know, I follow some campaigns for Republicans and Democrats and it seems like the split right now in West Virginia is Republicans infighting and you know, Republican county executive boards putting their endorsement behind one candidate and not the other. And then one candidate is boohooing about it and saying the, you know, the one candidates, you know, bended the knee to the authority and if you want a true can, even though they, they went to the meeting and tried to get the endorsement and then on the, the Democrat side you've got the, they've decided to, you know, and you know, we, we said on here a while back, you know, I predicted that Republicans were going to start losing seats and maybe you know, getting more stronger candidates races, but that has gone completely the opposite way and they've decided to basically have a clown show and replace the Republic, the Libertarian National Convention with their insane antics. I mean you've got candidates for Congress holding up signs saying eat the rich and Donald Trump has a small penis. And, and just the most insane things you, I mean like, like who's this for? Like doing AI memes of basically the most, you know, you know, asinine, hyperbolic, you know, Democrat talking points. And, and I mean, I don't know who that's for. Like I've seen one or two Democrat candidates or independent candidates that lead Democrat that are trying to run respectable races. You know, dudes wearing suit and tie and trying to espouse, you know, union principles and some of these things, but the majority of the loudest ones are just insane looking people that you know, have personalities to match. So I, well, and seems to be the Democrats are doing their best to try to, you know, not gain anything in West Virginia.
- [18:18]
B
Well, and I was gonna say that I was thinking of the one candidate for, for House for Congress here In West Virginia, who is definitely loud, man. I mean. Yeah. Is it Brit? Is that her name?
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A
Yeah.
- [18:31]
B
I mean, she's definitely out there. You know, she's definitely has a social media presence. Kudos or her. I know that is just for my little, you know, dipping my toes in these waters. It is a, it is a game, it's a process. So kudos are for, for, you know, being consistent and, and pounding that virtual pavement. But, man, it's, it's, it seems like a lot of, a lot of noise and no signal. Right. I mean, it's a lot of this, the saying, oh, you know, Trump is terrible and we gotta, you know, undo what Trump. No actual plans that I've seen besides the major talking points, like you said, tax the rich and those kind of things. So. But, you know, back to some of the. In state politics on the Republican side, you know, it's just interesting to see and, and maybe you're, I don't know if you're following the House side as much. I'm not paying as much attention to that obviously at the moment. But in the Senate, I mean, you're seeing these two lines being drawn between Tom Tacubo and, and Randy Smith. So Randy being the current Senate president and, and Tom Tacubo, pretty prominent doctor, member of the House Senate. And yeah, they're definitely going at one another. And there's, you know, all this talk about how much PAC money is coming in and, and buying ads and, and mailers and things to portray Tom as this person who didn't or wanted to keep, you know, men and women's sports and all this kind of stuff. I'm not going to get into, you know, his vote specifically. I'm not running against him. But it's funny because then you see folks like, you know, that are his acolytes, like Olive Area, who I'm running against. It's like the time that he gets on, on the talk shows, he has to make some comment about that and speak to and defend Hong and all this. And that's where, you know, so much of this is coming down to, is which faction of the GOP is in control of the Senate. Is it the Randy Smith and the socially conservative, you know, MAGA Republicans, or is it the Chamber of Commerce reforms Democrat, you know, Tom Tacubo wing? And a lot of money is going to be spent in these primaries. It'll be interesting to see there. But then, you know, and then I'm going to also be interested to see how much money Mike throws or Mike has thrown at our race, not only fighting me, but also a, you know, competitive Democrat challenger in Williams. So, yeah, it'll be interesting to see this year's like total political money spent versus 2024.
- [21:00]
A
Yeah, and it's kind of, I don't know, man, and, and just off the top, you know, Chris Pritt is running against Tacuba there. And yeah, I would say, you know, he gets a full throated endorsement from me. I mean, he kind of plays the MAGA side a little bit in the Trump endorsement stuff, but it is what it is. That's the game you have to play in West Virginia. And I get it. I mean, I would never do it, but I, I get why, why they do. Knowing Chris's principles and ideology, some of the stuff that Trump says and does, I know he wouldn't, he wouldn anything like that, so I don't see why he would support that. But you know, again, it's, it's the game you play, especially in a state like West Virginia, who loves Trump. So that, that being said, you know, Chris in the House, he was very liberty minded. I think he probably would have been in the Freedom Caucus had he still been in the House. And I think he would be, you know, an excellent replacement for Tacubo. But that being said, it's almost, it comes across to me as a little bit pathetic. You know, it's, it's like small time West Virginia politics trying to play the big game. And, and it's a little bit gross. I mean, Tacubo is what he is and, and it's, it's really annoying that you have to pander to people's lesser, you know, nature to get them to vote for, you know, who you, who you're supporting. And I think some of the stuff, it's, it's a little bit, I don't know if it's going to work because with social media, I mean, some of the stuff that they're trying to put out against a Kubo is stuff that is borderline just a L. There's plenty of red meat on the bone there for Tacubo. I mean, he's very clearly, I mean, if you're a conservative Republican, you know, just coming at it from, you know, that perspective. I mean, he was the main one that got some of the exemptions in for the abortion bill they passed again, significant need repeal against medical freedom, the boys and girls sports thing. I mean, he was the one that was, you know, saying it wasn't fair or necessary. And so if you're a conservative Republican,
- [22:57]
B
Yeah, his hang up there was, it had to, it was in the college. And basically he was like, well, it's kind of murky with NCAA and WVU and Marshall and stuff. So he kind of like walked a line. Not because I don't think he necessarily disagrees with it in general, but I think especially putting my, my feet in Republican shoes here. Yeah. Or just a pragmatic, like how the thing is actually going to work. If that's what if your end goal was to do this thing and you don't you want it to be as less messy as possible, then I understand that vote of his. But to the point you're making, you stepped in it because you, you know, you weren't full throttle with the rest of the Republicans on this red meat bill that now is, now it's an attack ad against you. And that's, that's, and to your point, you know, it's wild that West Virginia, we still have all these issues that we do on an economic front. We can't get Charleston out of, out of our wallets, out of our businesses and out of the way for us to grow. And we, they have 12 years now of a super majority and they, they, they brag about this major income tax repeal. It was still, we're trailing behind, cutting it compared to all the states around us and they're taking off 5% of it. Not going from like a 5% income tax to a zero like that kind of 5%, no 5% of what it is. And they're like patting themselves on the back over this stuff. And it's like to your comment earlier, this is one of the reasons, besides the war stuff, one of the reasons why I can't, can't be Republican anymore is just because I can't look at someone and say I believe that we need to cut certain taxes. And even at a pragmatic approach like put me in the Senate tomorrow, I would much rather trade, you know, get rid of things like the personal income tax, personal property tax, business inventory tax, taxes that reduce and prevent both business growth and transition or transitional and what's the word I'm looking for, hereditarial growth, passing down your wealth from family member, family member. Those taxes put a throttle on that type of growth. Put those taxes on a consumption basis, put them on sales tax, put them elsewhere. If we're going to just trade off, at the very least, obviously I want to cut government so that the bill that we have to pay every year is less and then we can just cut taxes. But let's make some trades. They don't really want to do anything creative along those lines. Hi. They just want to go down there again, campaign on certain talking points and do absolutely nothing but squabble over these quote unquote, red meat social issues.
- [25:39]
A
Yeah, yeah. And that's the, that's the easy stuff that they. And again, you know, and we've said this before, is that some of the bills that they passed, I mean, we don't necessarily even have a problem with them. We don't really think that they're, you know, you can be what you'd call a left leaning libertarian and say some of it's a little bit too far, but you know, I don't. It is what it is, but it's not the priority right now for what's ailing West Virginia boys and girls. Sports isn't what's, isn't what's ravaging our state with heroin addiction. It's the fact that they don't have jobs, decent education, and again that, that's slowly eroding the, the family and the moral state of this, of the state itself. And the population is just sick of it. And they, they keep on saying, you know, you need to get rid of the property tax. You need to get rid of the property tax. You need to get rid of the property tax. And they put out this, you know, suspicious, you know, half hearted attempt at getting rid of the property tax through an amendment and do little to nothing to promote it while the governor is saying it's horrible and we need to do an income tax cut. And that leads us into our next topic is if the state legislators had spent even a tenth of the time promoting that property tax amendment as they have data center promotion, we wouldn't have property taxes in this state anymore because they did nothing to promote that amendment to the people and explain why it was a good idea. But they're out, you know, just doing everything they can creating new Facebook pages, I mean, getting quotes from, you know, Woody Thrasher and making all kinds of graphics and going on radio shows and having town halls promoting data centers and, and that's kind of what I want to spend the rest of time of the show talking about is, you know, we talked a little bit about data centers before, but I think like a whole new perspective has opened up to me is that I saw a comment on Patrick Morrissey's Facebook page somebody had commented about, you know, it being, you know, I don't exactly remember what the comment was, but the governor's response or his Staff or whoever was basically, you know, it's going to be a huge boon for this state through tax revenue. Like just coming out and saying it, like, it's not about jobs. It's not about, you know, improving the condition of West Virginia as far as an employment perspective or improving the economy. It's going to generate revenue. And Taylor, I don't know if you've paid much attention to some of the comments, but even, even legislatures that I typically, you know, agree with on most things that they're basically saying, I think Jim Butler said it the best and, you know, he said it in a pragmatic way of if you want all these services that the counties and state provide, we don't have enough money to pay for what you want, and these data centers will pay enough in taxes to improve the status of those services. Just come right out and say it. This is about more money to the state to provide services. That's what this is about. It's not about anything other than that. So I don't know if you see any of those comments or not.
- [28:56]
B
Yeah, I mean, I've seen them. And, and I think obviously it's a. It would seem like an easy sell on that regard is, hey, especially since they're not going to be cutting any of our taxes anytime soon and they're, you know, fumbling over how to get certain, you know, limits passed and all the rest to do anything significant on that front. It does seem like a, and they use the baseball analogy a lot on Metronoon is a quote unquote home run that these data centers can come in and provide x millions of dollars in, you know, tax revenue. And, you know, we don't need the 600 that Virginia has. What if we had 10 or whatever, and that would still be like this massive boon. And I don't know what the exact numbers coming out of that are, but obviously they're significant. Obviously it's something to squabble over because the, basically the share of that revenue, like 30% going to the county and then the rest going out to the state to disperse to other counties or forget the, the algorithm or the, the equation of how that is supposed to work, but obviously it's significant enough because, you know, a lot of these counties are pretty upset about the fact that these data centers are coming in, but, you know, despite their drawbacks or whatever the feelings they have about them, that immediately one of the things you always hear is, oh, well, the rest of the state's getting a lot of this money and it's not even going to be impacting, you know, my backyard. So, yeah, I mean it. I don't want there to be kind of this expectation that anything's going to come in and be this silver bullet. But that's kind of how they're portraying it. And we know how this has played out, at least in the past, that, oh, we've got this big deal with China and they're going to come and invest, you know, billions of dollars in the state or, oh, we've got this, you know, power battery company coming in and it's going to bring in thousands of jobs and millions into the state. And a lot of these things fall flat. You know, data centers obviously seem to have a little bit more staying power thus far in our society and the need for them, obviously their energy draw would be a boon for the natural gas and coal industries in the state as well. And I know there's a lot built into how that plays in with the micro grids and everything. So, yeah, I mean, it seems like it might be a win. But at the same time, I think you do have some people who are very concerned about some of the finer details about these things. And just to say, oh, well, I'm going to have better roads and better schools. Is that the trade off that a lot of folks are wanting? And what's surprising is a lot of these small towns and areas, it seems like that's not willing to be the trade off they're willing to take.
- [31:40]
A
Yeah. And so I've got about four points on this because I've really thought about this quite a bit. And the main principle I want to say from the top is I don't know that there's a lot that the state or government in any level should really be doing to stop what's going to happen. But the one thing right at the top, this would be simply an ideological or, you know, basically a, A rhetoric discussion on what's coming. If the state legislature hadn't passed a bill that said local governments could not pass have any say in how these data centers are operated, whether they come or not. What the local governments are not allowed to make any rules for Danish centers. That's where they screwed up. And if you have a liberty mind whatsoever saying that a local government has no say and what comes into their government. Not everybody's libertarians, Taylor. We know this. Some people think that government should have a say in who comes to their community. So I'm not going to force my ideology on them. And the Republicans who. That's because that's who we're talking about. Even though a lot of Democrats voted for it as well. They have basically said your county and your city and your community does not get a say in this conversation whether data centers are coming to your community or not. You can have all the town halls you want that you don't get to
- [33:03]
B
say by code then to that, you know. Yeah. The Libertarian response is no, this is private property and they've sold it to this data center. The data center comes in. You know, we would say obviously there should be some checks on whether, you know, there's impact on the water and all that kind of stuff. Sure. But otherwise, someone has all these acres and they're willing to sell it or lease it to have a data center come in. That should be their right as a private property owner. Now, in the spectrum of, you know, political ideology spectrum here, the Republican conservative approach has always been, as I've understood it, maybe correct me if you think I'm wrong here, Tyler, but the Republican approach has always been best government is a government that governs the least or smallest, meaning at the, at the most, local level. That's the best government.
- [33:50]
A
That's what the Republican Party.
- [33:51]
B
Yeah, the Republican Party of West Virginia has done is said, actually, no, not when it comes to this thing. This is too big of a chance for, you know, us to allow you to mess up for us. So we're going to take away, we're going to abandon that principle and then basically force this on you. If we can get the data center to come into your, you know, county, town, whatever, and, you know, then it's tough luck. And so far that's what they've done. And I think it's definitely pissed off a lot of people. And, you know, we're maybe have an announcement after this Sunday's Libertarian and exec meeting about some things, but a lot of folks are really mad about these things being thrust upon them or thrust in their backyard.
- [34:34]
A
Yeah. And that's the, that's the problem is they, they, they are anticipating people not really paying attention and being uninformed about what they've done in the past is, you know, the big thing they're saying is, well, we didn't give them a tax break. That's what you all complain about, giving business, big business, a tax break. And to what we said before. Yeah, buddy, we know, because that's your goal. Right. You don't, don't try to act like we're idiots. We know what you're doing. You want the taxes on this one this one isn't about jobs. This one isn't about economy. This is about revenue for the state. And you know, my second point on that is, you know, these people, these legislators get up here who don't know. I mean, you've got, you know, teachers, you know, homemakers, you know, equipment operators, stuff like that. And I'm not belittling those in those careers whatsoever. I'm just saying they're coming out and belittling the people for having a problem with this, saying, well, you're just reading stuff on the Internet that's not true and you need to get all your facts before you make a comment and basically going, oh, you silly plebs. And while they're saying this, they're saying, oh, well, the people who are building these data centers, they've assured us that they don't. They're not going to make any noise. They're not going to poison the water. The people. The fox has ensured us he's not going to eat the chickens. He sees. He promised us he's not going to eat the chickens. He's fine. And then them saying, them saying every single one of them. Well, I'm not a data center expert, but this is what they've told us. Or, well, if you have a problem with water. Yeah, the EPA will make sure. The West Virginia DEP Will make sure that there's, there's plans in place to make sure water's not being polluted. I'm like, oh, okay. All of the sudden the Republicans trust the dep. That's what we're saying. You know, they hate the DEP for decades. You know, they're ruining the coal industry. And all of a sudden you're gonna, you're gonna say the words DEP and trustworthiness and ensuring safety. Oh, and the Department of Commerce is go make sure that they're going to, they're going to have to not violate property rights and the noise control, and they're going to make sure. I'm like the Department of Commerce. The people that brought them here are going to do anything to control what they're doing. So that's, that's point number two is just, just the complete condescension from these legislators talking to the people of, if you think that selling these data centers by saying you're an idiot, you don't know what you're talking about. If you think that's going to work, it's not because people don't want to hear that you think they're an idiot for not agreeing. You and, and. And that's the incredibly ironic part, is you're basically, you sat in a room with these people and Roger Hanshaw, for whatever your buddy TJ Meadow says that there's no conflict of interest. The fact that he's a lawyer representing one of the companies. And that's not a conflict of interest. I'm like, it's a technicality that the. The House Judiciary, the House rules say it's not a conflict of interest, but if it quacks like a duck and it walks like a duck and it eats seeds at the bottom of a pond, it's. And guess what? Roger Hanshaw is that duck. That conflict of interest duck is Roger Hanshaw. And when you hear the legislators talk, he was basically the data center lobbyist. The guy who. Oh, he got the job after. Right, okay, sure. The guy, you know, who's speaker of the House, making sure that data center bills get presented and passed, who just coincidentally gets hired as a lawyer for data centers. There's no conflict of interest there. And this is the guy you're saying has told you, oh, everything's gonna be fine. The fox isn't gonna eat the chickens.
- [38:09]
B
Yeah, well. And to go back a minute and talk on the stuff people are saying on the Internet, obviously, you know, a lot of stuff on the Internet is not true, and you can't trust everything and always do your own little bit of research and due diligence to fact check before you go spout off on things. But obviously, a lot of these concerns that people are having is because, like with everything else these have, this has been an emerging technology. It's not like the Google center that's coming into Putnam county is the same model that was built and utilized when the first one opened up. Wherever the first one opened up at, things have enhanced, progressed, and gotten better on a number of fronts because they came in, they built the thing, it was loud, it polluted water, it used up a lot of local water, it did X, Y, or Z. And the people around it got really pissed off. Whether it was because that state's DEP or. Or whoever came in and slapped their hands or whatever about it, or there was just a general uproar from the public and a grassroots, Grassroots sense about it, people reacted. A lot of those things actually happened. And because of that, when people are hearing about, oh, a data center is coming to my neck of the woods, going to be put in my backyard, they hear that. Now, that's not to say that since the first one, where all these. A lot of problems had and what some of the ones that we're getting now in West Virginia haven't, you know, drastically changed and have closed loop water systems and you know, have, are designed now with sound mitigation around them and buffer zones and all this kind of thing. Well, yeah, sure. Just like with everything else, the great thing about capitalism in the marketplace is it finds ways to improve based on how the market reacts to them. So I, I think again to your point, just dismissing people because you think they're stupid because they read some things on the Internet. Well, there's always a granular truth with a lot of the stuff you find on the Internet. You have to again, dig deep in and sometimes find that. But there's some valid concerns about how data centers operated or operate now in certain parts of the country because of their emergent technology. We didn't have these things 10 years ago. A lot has changed pretty quickly. But at the same time, going back to the whole point about the local control thing and the best government is that the, that governs smallest and more locally is that you're putting Putnam County, Berkeley county and the towns where these things going, their concerns in the hands of the folks in Charleston who again, you're skewing the revenue return on, on these taxes so that other counties are getting. Well, yeah, there's only, we're only going to have six or seven and they're scattered to the corners of the state. The other 48 counties or whatever the math comes out to end up being are gonna be like, yeah, we don't care how noisy they are or whatever they're doing. We need that tax revenue from Putnam county and Berkeley county and all the rest. Whereas I'm sure there'd be a lot different approach to monitoring and the oversight if it was, you know, being done by the county commissions and other local governing organizations and bodies instead. So, you know, I think the GOP has made their bed with this and I don't know that in and of itself will, you know, cause them to lose a super majority or have any significant impact on. But I think they definitely ruffled a lot of feathers and a lot of it's going to be determined on how some of these, these shoes fall, especially between Berkeley county and Putnam county, the two big ones coming up, probably soonest, to see how they actually operate and what they're actually doing to whether or not, you know, there's, they can have any credence or trustworthiness with voters moving forward on these kind of projects.
- [41:50]
A
Yeah. Okay, so point number three, we are really bad in West Virginia, as you just pointed out, at putting our, our, all of our eggs in one basket and then it failing. And sometimes it doesn't fail, but it usually is a short term thing that they, you know, violate a lot of property rights and freedoms and then they get a short, you know, amount of economic growth from it and then it goes away. Oil and gas being the most recent one. Well, here's the thing about data centers. And you know, what does everybody think data centers are? You know, AI basically is the big thing everybody says, and it's probably true. A lot of data centers are supporting a lot of this massive AI infrastructure and, but a lot of it is just processing stuff, you know, Facebook, YouTube, general data processing for everything you can think of on the Internet that requires some kind of data processing. Well, the, the big thing is, is AI. I don't know if anybody knows this. It is not generated one single dime of profit in its entire existence. Private equity has invested trillions, with a t trillions of dollars into AI advancement. And while it is a fantastic technology and it's growing and learning and becoming something that could potentially, key word, potentially create a lot of revenue in a lot of different industries, it has not turned a single dime of profit. It most of these companies are completely, utterly underwater as far as how much money they've spent and how much money they're bringing in. Your $20 subscription to chat GPT or whatever is not making them any money. It might be paying a couple employees at their office. It has not made any money whatsoever. So you're deciding you're going to create this entire, you know, economic plan based on what could possibly be the biggest bubble that has ever burst in the history of our economy, which could be a massive problem. And you know what happens when bubbles bursts in industries and the places that they were supposed to be operating? You get giant empty buildings. That's what you get. You get Punton County, Mason County, Berkeley County, Tucker County. You have a giant field with a giant building sitting empty. That's what happens. It turns into Weirton and you have giant rusting buildings sitting unoccupied. That's what you get. You're basing a huge revenue model based on something that hasn't proved itself whatsoever one iota. And you can check that yourself. Get on Chat GPT and ask Chat GPT if OpenAI has made any money whatsoever. It will tell you no if it's not lying to you, which it does. And this is the thing about these emergent technologies is what happened in the 90s, the.com bubble, these things happen because you have a lot of people in states like West Virginia that think they're super smart and they loved a central plan because they're the guys that know. We've talked to Ohio, we've talked to Virginia, and all the people that know say the data centers of the future, if they're not going to come somewhere else, if, I mean, if they're not going to come here, they're going to go somewhere else. So we've got to take, you know, we've got to take the first bite of the apple. Well, guess what? The apple might be hollow inside. You have no idea until you take that bite of the apple. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, you've sold thousands of acres of potential farmland or whatever and drain the aquifer potentially. And like you said, yeah, why would all these idiots on the Internet think that the data centers are a massive problem? It's just that all the states that have had data centers say they're a massive problem. I don't know why everybody's get where everybody's coming to this conclusion. So that's the big thing to me is that AI, while I think it's, you know, can be great for a lot of things, it's not proven itself. I mean, it just hasn't. And my fourth. Go ahead.
- [45:36]
B
Well, let me touch on that third point because I think you're right and that is one of my concerns. In a similar vein, how much money have we spent as a state and we've gotten from the federal government for our broadband expansion in this state and how long is it taking? Because it's so driven by the government and managed and mismanaged by the government, and we joked on this podcast before that by the time we say any of these haulers that are clamoring for it will actually get it, it'll probably be some, you know, leap in technology, like a Starling type of technology will come in and, and replace it. Right. I mean, that's just to your point about central planning and how government does things, they're always such a lag, such a delta behind in, in the technology that it's, it's. If it would be comical if it wasn't so sad, and it's so sad because so many millions and billions of dollars are invested in all of it and then by the time it, you get it stood up, or it's the point where you can, you know, pat yourself on the back, then the next thing is already coming down the pike. That you have to be ready for. And that's what I worry about. When you were talking about that, you know, the large building site, I was thinking about the, the, remember the running joke, you know, your, your parents would talk about. Oh, the first computer I ever used was this massive mainframe. And I had to go take punch cards too. And there was a whole building, one computer. And it's like, dude, what if that is exactly what these things are gonna be, is they need all this like physical space now because that's where our technology.
- [47:14]
A
Taylor, Taylor, I'm gonna stop you right there. It's already happening.
- [47:18]
B
I know.
- [47:19]
A
There are services.
- [47:20]
B
Not surprising.
- [47:21]
A
Okay? There are services right now where you can, you can rent time on, you know, it'll be like super, super AI data processing on Etsy or whatever. Like, I'm not kidding, it's just that localized. And it'll be some dude in Turkey that has a crazy alienware gaming computer with insane processors. And while he's not playing his video games, he's renting out time on his processor and his computer that's connected to the Internet to run data on AI calculations through, you know, creating websites or whatever. And these people are running all of these things through these people's private computers. The Mac Mini. Anybody look it up? Look up Mac Mini AI processing. The new Mac Minis that they've, that Apple is producing are basically tiny supercomputers and people are running these AI platforms through these computers and it's bypassing all of these data centers because they don't need the data center because the computer is doing it locally. You do the local processing and that is the future. That's the problem is when you, when you have centralized planning. That's not, this isn't a bad thing. This is a good thing because it means you don't need these giant data centers, but now you've got all these governments that are, that are making all this planning and spending all their time, even the time that they've spent time and money they've spent planning this stuff is a waste when you have these things happening in real time, Taylor, just like you said, is, is when you. My holler is the perfect example of what we're talking about. They've run all this tubing through up these haulers for the fiber and then they come back and run the fiber through it. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the people that are driving up this road, putting up these lines, every house they're passing has a Star, Starlink satellite on the roofer in the yard. They've already got the Internet. Why are they going to go to fiber when they've got Starlink? It's a little bit more expensive, but it never fails. It's fantastic service and it's already there. So it's just, this is the problem and this is the difference between somebody, you know, I don't. And like you said, Taylor, I don't know if they're like Winded Republic. That's kind of my point is when did Republicans shift from like their platform says free market capitalism, but they seem to like everything they do is just based on anything but free market principles, is the free market passes them by and then they just pretend like it's not happening and just keep on spending the money and the time.
- [49:47]
B
Yeah, they, they, they brag about, oh, I'm a free market capitalist, we're investing in this thing that the market has provided us in data centers. And it's like you're doing socialism with extra steps. But again, going back to what I was saying, that's my biggest concern is the rate of expansion of technology. And being the history nerd that I am and watching what happened in the Industrial revolution and how fast but still slow in our terms, in terms of
- [50:17]
A
understanding these typewriters are the wave of the future.
- [50:21]
B
Yeah. And they were four decades. Right. But now, now we have gone from, you know, keyboards and stuff to AI and everything else in the matter of 20 years. And that's in comparison, not just a jump that is like putting a rocket ship under your ass and lighting it kind of jump in terms of the progression in technology. So again, going back to my analogy of the old giant mainframe computers that took up whole floors of buildings. And now again, like you mentioned, the Mac Mini, a little supercomputer that, you know, fits between your knees and your hips that can do the same thing that we, you know, allegedly used to put a man on the moon back in the 60s. That's allegedly what we're talking about here. Right. And how long will it take for the need of these companies, the Googles, the, the metas, the OpenAI's that they need these 400 acre facilities to go down to a one acre facility. What is that timeline? I'm gonna guess it's probably going to be pretty quick. And what do you then do do your point? What most of these companies do is they're like, oh cool, hey we found a, a real cheap acre out in Nebraska. We're gonna go buy that and put our new data center there because it's cheaper than West Virginia. And we'll just, you guys having fun with this empty building. And now the taxpayers of West Virginia are on the hook for, you know, undoing and destroy whatever we're going to do with that 400 facility. Acre. 400 acre facility.
- [51:52]
A
Yeah. And the point number four, you got to put on your three piece tinfoil suit. But Mike Folk was on the Tom Roten show here a couple weeks ago and one thing he pointed out that you know you kind of think about but you don't really, you know it's, it's always in the back of your mind but you don't really think about this stuff, you know, as you know, real time. But you know, who needs a ton of data processing and something that we have been fearful of and warning of, you know, the Ron Paul's, Edward Snowden's have been warning us about a lot of three, three letter agencies need a lot of processing power for the things that they are doing and want to do. It's interesting if you ask any legislator or anybody involved in these data centers coming to West Virginia, go ahead and ask them who is going to be occupying these data centers. Because a lot of people don't know this, these data centers. The people that they're talking to are the people building the data centers. They're basically creating, it's like rent a center. I mean they're creating these facilities and they're going to put all the stuff in them. But who's going to be in that facility? What business, what, what agency is going to be in these buildings? And they won't tell you because they'll say they don't know. But it might also be the fact that they've created, they've put policies in place to make it hard to FOIA that information. Why would that be, Taylor? I mean we're really, we're pretty close to D.C. i mean if you're putting a data center in Berkeley County, West Virginia, what's that close to a lot of three letter agencies in D.C. so that's something that everybody needs to be considering as well is this might not be this, you know, economic, you know, free market principled thing that we think it is. It might, it could be basically putting the, the vipers right into our den here and creating, you know, new FBI centers, new CIA centers, NSA where they're more capable of spying because they've got these massive data centers that they're, they're renting and, and at on our dime basically. So that's something to consider as well.
- [53:59]
B
Well, and to that. Going back to the. There's the first pointer. Just a comment we made earlier about that local control. You know, you're more likely to find out about that kind of thing happening if it's managed in over and the oversight is with your county commission or some smaller form of government than a couple of, you know, political bigwigs down in Charleston.
- [54:20]
A
But yes, so go ahead.
- [54:24]
B
I was gonna say I've seen Chris Anders and a few folks really kind of railing about the, you know, the federal government use of spying. They're basically spy centers, all kinds of stuff. And again like you said, you know, jokingly about putting your, your tinfoil hat on and that. That was kind of where my first thought went to reading that. No, no, hate to, to Chris or anything because I think he's great on a lot of the civil liberties and was calling out Trump for the Pfizer warrants and stuff. But, but yeah, I mean it. Not a hard, hard stretch. I mean, you know one of the biggest companies right now that's got its tentacles in the federal government is Palantir and what are they but a giant, you know, data crunching machine.
- [55:04]
A
Terrifying. So yeah, yeah, that Ellison guy's recent con. Have you seen that the ella. What's his name something Ellison the guy. No, it's Ellison. The guy bought cbs. He's one of the ones that was. Yeah, he, he basically said that, you
- [55:19]
B
know, Peter Thiel something.
- [55:21]
A
Yeah, well Ellison said, you know, he basically came right out and said, I don't remember where he was saying this. He was giving a talk. But he said, you know, citizens are going to have to be on their best behavior because they're going to be. There's going to be constant surveillance basically. And that's where a lot of these people and everybody you know, cheered about the tech bros kind of supporting Trump. But a lot of people were warning about it but basically saying why are all these people that have been super liberal their whole lives, I mean, you know, basically half of them are, are gay dudes with husbands and they're suddenly supporting the, the Republican candidate. And it's, this is what it is. I mean this is the, the surveillance and as you said Palantir and, and the, the, the technology they've created for you know, basically the Israeli government and, and some of these things and, and Palantir has actually had a huge part in a lot of the conflicts that Israel has been persecuting here recently and being, you know, creating these AI managed strikes of missiles and stuff. It's pretty terrify it. And oh, man, I would hate to think that a giant building sitting in a field in Berkeley county was, you know, targeting, you know, missile strikes into Iran. But that seems to be what's happening in a lot of, a lot of the world. So it is something that people need to be seriously considering.
- [56:40]
B
And again, this is not a, necessarily a full wraparound tinfoil hat comment here, but you know, if you have studied anything at all about FISA warrants and what the government has done and the Snowden leaks and everything that we've learned from, you know, that kind of stuff, everyone, especially folks on the right, you know, you're uber conservative Boomer family members, uncles and dads and father in laws and all that. You know, they make the jokes about China and the social credit score that they have. Well, that's at least freaking public. Yeah, I mean, that's out in the open. They tell you like the Communist Party tells you, hey, here's what we're doing this and here's your credit score. Yeah, but we are likely, if we haven't already started doing it and just not telling folks like that shit is, is being run so that, you know, as soon as anything close to happening pop off. All we know, they know all this stuff. Every school shooting, every mass shooting within, you know, how long does it take for them to come out? They don't. Not very public about it, but somewhere, if you, if you watch wall to wall coverage, at some point they'll sneak in. Oh, Ty Ward was known to the FBI.
- [57:46]
A
Yep.
- [57:47]
B
They'll say that.
- [57:48]
A
Why don't you say my name?
- [57:50]
B
Because I'm sure we were actually, we're both probably going to do it. I guarantee there's a file just for this podcast alone. But I mean, it's because they do. And it's not that, you know, they are really good at tracking every, you know, all the, all the bad guys in the world. They're tracking everybody and everything. And they can just go, okay, the early reports say it was Taylor Richmond and boom, they've got a file. They know, you know, your seven degrees of Kevin Bacon and all the rest like that. And how are they doing that? Well, data centers and AI, boys and girls.
- [58:22]
A
Yeah. And, you know, and I brought him up earlier, but. And I'm not. And I'll just fold. Full transparency. I'm not defending this dude whatsoever, but Eric Swalwell, you know, Congressman running for governor of California, they're saying there's a huge problem with too many, you know, Democrat gubernatorial candidates running in California and They're gonna hand it to the Republicans. And then all of a sudden the front runner who is not very well liked by some of the people in California, in the Democrat establishment, suddenly all these photos start coming out of him doing illicit things with people that aren't his wife, potentially underage. And all of a sudden these photos come out of nowhere. So it's one of those things where, like you said, there's an FBI file on everybody and all these school shooters are known to the FBI and there's even cases open and they do absolutely nothing about it. But you know what? They do something about people that are political opponents. So this is the thing that sounds like sci fi. And you know, you.
- [59:18]
B
It's not sci fi, Ty, because I mean, J. Edgar Hoover was doing it back in the frickin, you know, 50s and 60s with far less technology than what we have now. Now we're just doing on such a fast and ridiculous scale that it's, it's mind boggling. I mean. Yeah, I don't know. I don't, I'm not, I don't know how to make the connection here, but. Did you read the stories about how they found that pilot over in Iran?
- [59:43]
A
Yeah, I think that's all nonsense. Well, I don't think that's real. I think that's a psyop.
- [59:49]
B
Well, maybe it is, but I mean, if anyone.
- [59:52]
A
Quantum magnetic processing.
- [59:56]
B
But here's the thing, my point of bringing that up is there are things that they have the capability to do.
- [60:03]
A
Yeah.
- [60:04]
B
That.
- [60:04]
A
Sure.
- [60:04]
B
We don't even know about. Oh, sure.
- [60:06]
A
And here, here's the thing, and that's the, that I'm glad you said that because almost every technology that we have, and I experienced it in the military, I mean, some of the GPS stuff that I saw when I was 18 years old in the, in the army. I mean, stuff that was kind of old that I was exposed to as far as the GPS and radio stuff. I was kind of a GPS geocache nerd when I was a teenager, preteen, you know, I enjoyed that stuff and some of the Garmin GPSs that you could buy, you know, in the civilian market. Some of the stuff that I saw like, was light years ahead and it was old technology for the military. So every technology that you see out here in the real world, the military or government somewhere has, has had that technology for probably a decade. And I know a lot of people, you know, preppers and stuff, say that stuff, but it's true. I mean, it just is because a lot of that stuff is developed with government money because that's the way it works. And then they deny us of this technology because, you know, they're special and they think we're all a bunch of idio and, and we don't need to have that tech. So, like, I agree with you. Who knows what, you know, what's going to happen. But, yeah, no, it is, it is kind of scary. But. But then also you, you look at some of the stuff that they do, like, you know, killing a bunch of schoolgirls in Iran. You go, you can detect somebody's heartbeat 40ft, 40 miles away, but you can't tell there's a bunch of girls in a school that you're bombing, so.
- [61:24]
B
Or you just miss that terribly or you don't care.
- [61:29]
A
That was the goal. So. Yeah, and that's, that is very good point, and that goes to AI as well, is there's lots of people that say that the, the government and the military is, is funding AI on its own level. And, and some of the fallout you've seen with some of these companies that had contracts with the government because they didn't want to, you know, let them have free range for using it for military operations. You wonder what kind of AI they actually have and what kind of horrible, you know, Skynet thing. They're, they're gonna screw up and release and, and destroy the whole world. So, yeah, it is, it is what they do with COVID Yeah, yeah, yeah. Except for the, you can't.
- [62:08]
B
Yeah.
- [62:08]
A
Except for a virus doesn't have a brain that can access the nuclear code. So.
- [62:13]
B
Yeah. So let me just, let me ask you a question because I was. And again, we'll probably have some more to talk about next week about this, but talking with a libertarian friend who is very upset about the situation, especially in Plenum county and with, with all that. But just from your perspective, I know you had your four points of concern, but what it, what would you say is the libertarian take and. Or response to the data center situation as it stands right now in West Virginia?
- [62:47]
A
Well, it's, it's kind of a gut check moment, and we talked about it on a previous episode is, you know, I kind of have a problem with them. You know, when, when you have issues about, you know, property rights, you know, the, the main ones for data centers, as we've said, you know, at nauseum, the, the water and the sound and, you know, harming people's property values, I think that local people should be able to have somewhat of a say in, in that and, and how their water is used because it is their water as well. And, and not that water is a right, but if it's something that they, everybody has agreed this is the public's water and everybody has access to it and then all of a sudden a data center comes and starts consuming it all, that's a problem. But it should have local, local oversight or at least local consideration, if not government oversight. But here's the thing is we kind of get a jail, get out, jail free card as libertarians because the, as I stated before, the state legislature has decided that it's going to say local governments can't have any control over any of it or any say whatsoever. So that's kind of the, it's not a get out of jail free card principle wise, but that's the, the pragmatic view. Obviously, you know, if you can't prove that they're not going to, that data centers aren't going to create some sort of imminent danger and damage. I don't think there's any real libertarian take that says the government should prevent them from opening up shop. I think it's just as simple as that. As much as I want to. There's plenty of things, you know, we've talked about it on here before. There's plenty of things I don't like and don't. I don't want a vape shop opening up in downtown Newton. I say downtown. There is no downtown. And Newton is, I mean, you. But you know what I mean. Like if a vape shop does decides to buy one or even one of those Internet cafes where they have gambling, I don't want that opening up down the road from us.
- [64:33]
B
They very well, Internet cafe was something I haven't heard of in probably about 15 years.
- [64:37]
A
Right? So, I mean, I don't want one of those opening up either. But I'm not going to say that they can't. It's just a. To me, that's just a, it's, it's a, it's a reflection on what's happening culturally and in your community. And I think you asked Brett Rogers up there and our friend Brett Rogers up there in Berke what all of the economic growth has done to his community is. He'll tell you it's basically torn. It's not even remotely resembling what he grew up in. And while that could be good and bad, in his view, most of it is negative. I mean, they've lost any cohesion they had. I mean, you've got a lot of vagrants Coming in, you've got a lot of people that are completely disconnected from the community, who are just transient, going to work and coming back because it's cheaper to live here. And you've got a lot of workers who, you know, the big, ugly, huge buildings that you know are an eyesore. And so, I mean, it is, as much as you want to say, I don't want that in my community. I mean, you really, it's not your place to tell people they can't, you know, take $26 million for their property. It's just not your say. I mean, it's not your business. And what do you want the state to do? Tell them? No, you want, if you, if you're a libertarian and you think the state should say, or the county or the city should, no, you cannot sell your property to a data center. We're not going to give permits to this company because they're a data center. That is not the libertarian take. I don't care who you are or how big a friend you are. To me, that is not libertarian. I'm sorry, I don't like it either, but that's not libertarian. Principles are principles.
- [66:13]
B
Yeah, I agree. My, you know, my general take is one in regards to data centers, that one, there should be some protection over personal property rights. Obviously this is happening yet, but the state should not be utilizing things like imminent domain to put data centers in anywhere.
- [66:31]
A
Of course not.
- [66:33]
B
But you know, again, I agree that the big thing is that you should have the right to, with your property, sell, lease, however you want it to. And the government, predominantly in the sense of, of the courts, should be the check after the fact. You shouldn't utilize government to try to prevent harm. You should utilize the government and especially civil liability in courts to recoup and repair losses caused by harm if it does happen. So if a data center comes in and does harm to the water, to the environment, to, you know, simply to property values and the like, that's the libertarian response, is that they should be held civilly liable for the that. And again, we can get into some deeper discussions and probably need Erica, you know, in here to provide some legal parameters on how that can be streamlined and made easier. Because obviously the major counter to that is that, well, the big company is going to have all the million, you know, all the, the lawyers to fight you and you, you lose as a small person anyways, I think we need to look into why that happens the way that it does. But that's the libertarian response, the pragmatic response. I Think to your, your, to your point, Ty, is that, yeah, there should be some more local control to keep an eye on. 1 Just what's happening in, in those neighborhoods, in those communities, in those counties. And if, you know they are okay with it being put somewhere within their county and they can get some revenue from it, great. But the fact of the matter is, the way it's currently set up, the, the, the share, the profit share, if you will, from these taxes, incentivizes Charleston and the legislature to railroad these, you know, through to wherever they can get them, and then, you know, pat themselves on the back when we can divvy up some tax money down the road. And I don't think that's the way to do because when you incentivize that type of behavior, then you bring in some corruption and things happening without the free market control or even the localized government control that provides more protections for people in their backyard. So I would do away with some of those protections provided by House Bill 2014 from a couple years ago and allowed more local control, but within that local control, not that the, the county or the zoning commission or whatever can say to, you know, ward Farm, hey, you can't sell your acreage to this data center because we don't want it in my backyard. You know, they can't have the NIMBY approach, but they should be able to be the ones that has more control and oversight if they're doing. If the data center comes in and dries up the aquifer, stills all the water, pollutes the streams and ground and everything else or whatever it does, they're the ones that are going to be more responsive to that type of harm and damage to the county, citizen, town citizens, than Charleston is going to be.
- [69:25]
A
Yeah, and that's the thing. I mean, the other, the other take is, is, you know, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna vote for or sponsor any bills to restrict data centers from, you know, setting up shop in West Virginia. But. But I can't stop you from doing it. So it's just a call out that you could kind of say, you know, your principles are what they are and mine are what they are, and I'm not going to vote for it. But I don't know, the state has done worse things than keeping data centers from the states. So that's the third rail, dirty little political games. But yeah, and that's the thing is why does the state have this kind of control? What did the state need to do to let data centers come here the fact that, fact that. And this is kind of a little bit, you know, off the rails, but bigger, you know, principle of why does the state have any laws that they would need to undo? You know what I mean? You understand what I'm saying? Like, sure.
- [70:22]
B
That's where I, you know, give them credit and I don't know all the history that led up to House Bill 2014 and the rest, but obviously, and we know that this exists, I think con law is the perfect example. Certificate of need law is a perfect example of this. Right. That we, there are things that are baked into our cake as a state that prevent economic growth and economic.
- [70:42]
A
But that's why you shouldn't give them credit because that's the problem is. This is the problem with, with economic planning is they, they pick and choose. They'll come out and say we're, well, you know, we're not taxing them. You should, you shouldn't be able to. Amy Grady on Tom Row. You shouldn't be able to tell a property owner, well, who they can sell their, who they can sell their property to. But you can tell them what. Who can pick up their trash cash, like, okay, then pick a lane.
- [71:08]
B
I'm not, I'm not patting them on the back for their economic planning. What I'm, what I'm saying are the kudos that I will be willing to share. And again, because there, there is some of this in, in these bills 2014 and I forget the, the most recent one this year, but there, there was some actual pull pulling back of regulations and things that made it easier for like the micro grids and things. Right.
- [71:28]
A
But just for that one industry. That's my point is it's just for that one industry. And that's why, that's why the kudos are hard to give because yeah, sure, we want all reg reduction is good, but when the general. It's just like getting you.
- [71:44]
B
Part of the issue though is a lot of those regulations are targeted in their intent and design from the beginning because of environmental impacts, et cetera, et cetera. So there are some regulations and some laws that are in place were in place that were targeting certain industries. And just to say, oh well, it's not across the board like eliminating the business inventory tax. That is an across the board thing that, you know, all boats will rise in the storm type of things. One of the first things will do as a state senator is put that resolution on the floor to be on the ballot come the next election cycle. That's a fantastic thing. We need to do that. But on the flip side of that coin though is that there are, there are things in our government, in our code that are targeted against or to your point in some cases for certain industries that disincentivize or make it difficult for others.
- [72:34]
A
Right.
- [72:34]
B
Con Law is the other example. So I'm giving the kudos that okay, yes, there were things that prevent. Prevented this one industry from moving forward and it was targeted just at that industry and they got rid of that. Yeah, it wasn't an across the board thing but it needed to happen to open the floodgate for this one industry to flourish somewhat or to. To have more of a fighting chance somewhat. And where those, those whack a moles exist, let's knock them down. But we can also look at bigger, broader things that are fair across the board. But I think you do have to hit some of these whack a moles too where they exist also. So kudos to the hitting the mold where they they were were and allowing some of this to move forward. I agree wholeheartedly. There are some bigger ones that are impacting all types of industries like and things like business inventory tax that can drastically help everybody. Let's get that as well. But there are some surgical things that can happen and they've gotten. That's when for the micro grids and data centers.
- [73:27]
A
Yeah. I don't equate it to surgery. I equate it to more. You're running across a field with your friend and the farm dog comes in is biting your leg and gets distracted for a second goes and bites your friend. So you can run about 100ft more down the field and then they come back and bite you again. It's. They got distracted and decided to go bite somebody else so that there could be a little bit of freedom for you to run a little bit and then. Oh I guarantee they'll come back and if. If something ha. That's the problem is they. It's one step forward, two steps back in West Virginia. And you know that's the thing I don't that the kudos I think could be given that I don't. I can't recall too many added regulations from this body. I mean I may be wrong and there may be some bills that we aren't aware of. But I mean that, that that would be a kudo is that they don't seem to be adding regulation. And I get your point. I'm just being difficult but sure.
- [74:20]
B
And you're right. Yeah. And they again, kudos again the past five Years when I've been really focused on, on state stuff compared to more national stuff. I can't think of any significant bills where I'm just, just like, man, they did this. This is really handicapping again. Most of our, our gripes about the, the state has been that they are, are playing central planning. They are picking winners and losers in the marketplace with, with certain industries and certain businesses. And they are dropping the ball on getting rid of things that would really help the state flourish, like repealing certificate of need law, eliminating personal property and income tax. This is inventory tax and the like. So yeah, I don't know. I can't top of my head think of anything that they've done where I'm like, oh man, that, that action has actually put the. Well, they didn't get it done, but they tried with that E VERIFY bill. That would have probably been one that we would. Had to have called out. But for the most part, no, they've not pulled us back in an insignificant sense. They've kind of throttled us where we are and maintain somewhat of a status quo by, by still meddling in the marketplace, which they accuse Democrats of doing and being socialists. But then they turn right around and do it. But just for industries that they actually like that fit under the GOP umbrella, like natural gas, coal, et cetera, et cetera.
- [75:43]
A
Yeah. And while we wrap up, I just wanted to point out there is no more perfect illustration of how Republicans view the government's relationship with economics is, is they created a entrepreneurship. You know, I don't remember what they called it, but they basically created an office that is going to help.
- [76:06]
B
It didn't get through.
- [76:08]
A
Yeah, it did the, the thing to create the entrepreneurship business office thing where the Secretary of State will have somebody that'll help people basically.
- [76:17]
B
Oh, that. Sorry, I'm thought you were talking about Team West Virginia or whatever.
- [76:22]
A
No, no, nothing, nothing like that. I mean it's. Granted this is way better than that, but basically they didn't cut any regulation to make it easier for a business to start in West Virginia. They just created more people to pay with tax money to help you navigate the regulations in government and how to start a business and manage the paperwork. That's how Republicans view the government's relationship with businesses. My lawn business and I'm a veteran, so they did. Again, kudos where they're due. They created in the law the first five years of your business. I don't know why it's five years. I don't know why it's life. First thing I do when I become a legislator is make it a life. The life of a veteran's business. I didn't have to pay the fee to start a business and I don't have to pay the renewal fee for five years. But you have to pay like 125 bucks to get a business license. And for a business, the majority of businesses like mine, lawn business. I get absolutely nothing from it. Nothing whatsoever other than the state has a law that says to get liability insurance I have to have a business license. So they've created the problem. I have to have a business license to get a insurance policy. I have to have a business license to get a bank account for my business based on state and federal law. So I have to get a business license just so I could deal with the government. What the government is the laws they've created.
- [77:48]
B
You have to deal with the government to be able to deal with the government.
- [77:51]
A
Yeah. That's the only reason I need a business license. They don't do anything for me. I don't have to take any tests. I don't have to do anything special. They just have to have a document that says I have this business and I get to pay a renewal fee. That's it. And so and, and for me to pay sales tax. But there's plenty of businesses that don't. Well, maybe not. I don't know. And that would be another thing is that lawn businesses.
- [78:16]
B
You mean remitting. Remitting their sales tax. That's only the Greenbrier.
- [78:19]
A
Yeah, dude. It drives me insane again. I tell Eric all the time I wish I was dumber so I can just accept this, like the fact that I have to charge sales tax like every single thing I do, everybody's already paid. I've already paid sales tax on everything. So I have to charge sales tax to be able to use the equipment. I paid sales tax on the gas. I paid sales tax on the weed eater string. I paid sales tax on the gloves. I paid sales tax on. I wear everything. I already paid sales tax and now I got to charge my customer sales tax. So this little old lady who I'm charging 60 bucks to mow her lawn now she has to pay $68 because. Because of whatever. I don't. It makes no sense. Anyway, rambling. So yeah, this. We're at like an. An hour and 20 minutes. So yeah, so yeah, West Virginia is doing great. But yeah, if you want hit us up a Mountain State Mount statelibertycast gmail.com Facebook either of us, hit us up on messenger, let us know what you think about data centers, what you think a libertarian take would be that we haven't talked about here or even what your opinion is. Some stuff maybe we haven't thought of. As far as data centers go, it's a hot button topic right now and sometimes with these things it's hard to be a libertarian because you don't have a lot of answers for people other than. I mean, you just stay informed. So yeah. Taylor, do you have anything before we close out?
- [79:46]
B
No, just you know, follow the party on Facebook, instagram and x lpwv.org's the website again. You know my website for my campaign, richmond4senate.com Follow along there. I also have a campaign Facebook profile. Maybe dabbling with some tick tock. We'll see. I got some ideas in a friend
- [80:09]
A
who might
- [80:12]
B
be helping me with that. So yeah, we'll see. But if you are interested, give the party a like and a follow. Obviously give the podcast like and a follow. Please give my Facebook campaign profile a like and a follow. You know, seeing numbers in support of my campaign gives credence to it and gets. Helps me get airtime on the on the radios and other things and causes the competition to shake a little bit in their boots, but also makes them take me more seriously. And any support financially you're willing to do, I greatly appreciate it. I'm trying to run a very lean campaign. All your donations will be used to the best ability to put the libertarian principles out there in the marketplace and give the Morgantown and Fairmont residents an option of liberty and small government and less taxes. So appreciate any support you'd be willing to provide.
- [81:11]
A
Hell yeah. Yeah, One more thing. I wanted to give everybody a homework assignment. Go and listen to the Tom Roton show, his podcast, listen to the Amy Grady episode and the Kathy has Kraus episode and just keep the keywords dodging the question in regard to data centers. It's very interesting. Pay attention. Keep that in your mind about questions that he asked them and the things that they say and don't say say they both are pretty good at dodgy questions. Evidently the state legislature has no idea why electricity rates are going up. So I'll leave that for another episode.
- [81:47]
B
Well, they do know. And Brian Helton will tell you it's because we're not running our coal power plants at 69%.
- [81:54]
A
According to Kathy, it's because we don't. Our population's dropping. I don't. Yep. I don't know. But okay, that's what she thinks anyway. Yeah. So thanks for listening, and until next time, don't hurt people and don't take their stuff.