A Horcruxy Road Ahead (HBP Chapter 30, 'The White Tomb')

Summary

MuggleCast Episode Summary

Episode Title: "A Horcruxy Road Ahead"

Theme: Tribute, Transition, and the End of Half-Blood Prince

(HBP Chapter 30: "The White Tomb")

Release Date: June 24, 2026
Host(s): Andrew, Eric, Micah, Laura
Guest: Sam (Patron Slug Club Member)

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Episode Overview

This week, the MuggleCast crew closes out their re-read of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince with an in-depth discussion of Chapter 30, “The White Tomb.” The episode is a heartful and humorous reflection on loss, legacy, and the "Horcruxy" road ahead for Harry, blended with fandom insights, character analyses, a look at Dumbledore’s funeral’s symbolism, and plenty of classic MuggleCast banter. Patron Sam joins the panel for this emotional send-off, as the hosts explore how the Wizarding World – and Harry himself – must move forward after Dumbledore’s death.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Fandom & Guest Spotlight

• [02:46] Sam introduces herself with classic fandom credentials: her favorite book and movie are both Prisoner of Azkaban, she’s a Hufflepuff, her Patronus is a grey squirrel, and her cats are (fandom-ly) named Dobby and Rupert.
  • "I am a Hufflepuff. My patronus is a gray squirrel, and my favorite cast character is Dobby... when we got him, he had these giant bat-like ears and yellow eyes. So, of course, he had to be Dobby." — Sam [02:51]

2. Rare Love for Book & Movie Azkaban

• [03:58]–[05:18] Sam is unusual in loving both the Prisoner of Azkaban book and the Alfonso Cuarón film. The hosts recognize this is rare due to stylistic and plot differences but appreciate Sam’s reasoning: “the vibes were right.”

3. Harry’s Grief & the Horcrux Mantra

• [09:22]–[10:57] The chapter opens with Harry repeating a Horcrux mantra to manage his grief, likened to Arya's kill list from Game of Thrones.
  • "Harry has developed a bit of a mantra as it relates to the Horcruxes. He's trying to channel some of his emotions towards figuring out exactly what it is he's supposed to do..." — Micah [09:22]
• The crew reminisces about mnemonic devices and memory tricks for handling overwhelming tasks at Harry’s age.

4. Symbolism in Harry’s Dreams

• [12:27]–[15:21] Analysis of Harry’s dream: a rope ladder from Dumbledore turns to snakes.
  • "It looks solid... but then when he reaches for it, turns, oh God, it's snakes." — Eric [13:08]
  • The symbolism is tied to betrayal, the Slytherin connection, Harry’s feeling of being on shaky ground, and subconscious frustration with Dumbledore’s secrets.
  • Sam points out the snakes may foreshadow Nagini’s role as a Horcrux.

5. The R.A.B. Mystery & Hermione's Research

• [16:01]–[17:46] Hermione’s detective work yields some comic relief (Rosalind Antigone Bungs and Rupert Axebanger Brookstan), but ultimately, the fandom and the hosts recognize R.A.B. is likely Regulus Black.
  • "If anybody should be making the connection here, it's Harry. But... Harry is going through a lot right now." — Andrew [16:17]
• Harry’s tunnel vision is highlighted: his grief keeps him unaware of key details.

6. The Parallel Between Snape and Voldemort

• [21:57]–[25:59] Harry draws comparisons between Snape and Voldemort — both with split magical/muggle parentage, both using intimidating new names.
  • "[Snape]'s just like Voldemort, pureblood mother, Muggle father, ashamed of his parentage, trying to make himself feared. Using the dark arts, he gave himself an impressive new name." — Harry (quoted by Andrew) [22:17]
• The hosts discuss Harry’s inability to see the nuance in Snape’s motives, focusing on Snape’s choice to honor his mother versus mere pride.

7. Harry’s Empathy for Draco

• [26:00]–[27:56] At Dumbledore’s funeral, Harry pities Draco, seeing his vulnerability and inability to kill Dumbledore. This foreshadows future shifts in their dynamic and sets up later developments in Deathly Hallows.
  • "Harry is able to then empathize and be like, well, what's Voldemort doing right now to Draco because Draco failed?" — Eric [27:56]

8. The End of Protection: Harry’s Loneliness

• [28:38]–[32:00] A poignant discussion of how Dumbledore’s death marks the end of Harry’s “protectors” and the beginning of adult responsibility.
  • "Harry saw... how people who cared about him had stood in front of him one by one: his mother, his father, his godfather, and finally Dumbledore... But now that was over." — Micah quoting the book [29:18]
• The hosts note Harry’s isolation and compare it to previous losses, but point out he still has caring allies.

9. Should Harry Accept Ministry Protection?

• [32:00]–[36:18] The group debates Scrimgeour’s offer of Auror protection. Eric argues it’s unwise to reject it, but Laura and Sam counter that the Ministry’s motivations are suspect, and secrecy is crucial.
  • "My disagreement stems from the reality that Scrymgeour isn't doing this for Harry's protection... he's concerned about good optics." — Laura [34:10]

10. Harry & Ginny’s Breakup: The Superhero Trope

• [41:15]–[43:51] The emotional split is compared to Peter Parker and Mary Jane. Ginny’s maturity in accepting Harry’s “noble reason” is praised. Sam and Eric note Ginny’s empathy and suitability for Harry, despite the clichéd scenario.
  • "It's the superhero cliche, 'I've got to break up with my girlfriend to save them, but if things work out, they're going to get back together.'" — Sam [42:50]

11. Ron & Hermione’s Resolve

• [43:53]–[45:40] The hosts question Harry’s assumption that Ron and Hermione wouldn’t accompany him. They note the strength of the trio, and that Harry’s logic is clouded by grief.

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Dumbledore’s Funeral: Unity and Symbolism

1. Funeral as Wizarding Unity

• [47:02]–[50:27] The hosts discuss how Dumbledore’s funeral gathers an unprecedented cross-section of the magical world, symbolizing the unity he sought — though bittersweet, as it arrives after his death.
  • "Their presence is a testament to the bridges that he was trying to build in the wizarding community." — Micah, re: merpeople and centaurs [49:22]

2. Funeral Attendees & Their Motives

• [50:31]–[54:04] The group analyzes notable funeral attendees (Umbridge, Fudge, Rita Skeeter, various barmen, even the trolley lady and Grawp). Umbridge and Fudge’s presence is linked to optics, closure, and, in Umbridge’s case, potential pettiness.
  • "She's not there because she cared about Dumbledore. She's there to make an appearance... there were definitely ulterior motives." — Andrew (about Umbridge) [52:12]

3. Absence of House Elves

• [57:35]–[58:49] The hosts note the mysterious exclusion of house-elves from the proceedings, critiquing the ongoing blind spots in wizard society and even Dumbledore’s legacy.
  • "I think it's probably likely that they just weren't considered... except for Hermione." — Laura [58:28]

4. Dumbledore’s White Tomb: Symbols & Myths

• [59:02]–[61:27] The significance of Dumbledore’s white tomb is explored: white as a symbol of purity/acceptance, direct mythological connections (Arthurian legend of Avalon), and contrast to Voldemort’s dread of death.
  • "White is a symbol of purity and transcendence... it stands in direct opposition to Voldemort whose entire life is defined by the fear of death." — Micah [60:02]
  • "Albus means white, and Dumbledore means bumblebee." — Eric [60:19]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

with Timestamps

• “Can you imagine being like 15 and calling yourself Lord Anything and then well into adulthood?”
  — Laura [03:53, repeated [25:15]]
• “Harry’s kind of got a one track mind... He’s busy doing his feeling right now and has to get through this.”
  — Eric [17:11]
• “This is as much about a transfer of responsibility as it is about paying tribute to Dumbledore.”
  — Micah [29:36]
• On Snape & Voldemort: “Snape did drop his high school edgelord pseudonym before he branched into adulthood, which is more than we can say about Voldemort.”
  — Laura [24:54]
• “Their presence [centaurs and merpeople] is a testament to the bridges that [Dumbledore] was trying to build in the wizarding community.”
  — Micah [49:22]
• “Harry doesn’t have all the answers, but I think he could have said something: ‘Hey guys, I know what I need to do. Hey guys, I’m working on it.’”
  — Andrew [37:40]
• “I will pay tribute to Dumbledore by embroiling everyone I know in a secret plot that will change their lives forever. But I won’t tell them…”
  — Eric [63:09]
• “I’d toast with a lemon drop shot as a nod to Dumbledore’s favorite Muggle candy.”
  — Sam [64:30]

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Timestamps for Critical Segments

• [02:46] Introductions, Sam’s Fandom Story
• [06:44] Start of Chapter by Chapter: "The White Tomb"
• [09:22] Harry’s Emotional Mantra and Grief
• [12:27] Symbolic Dream Analysis (Snakes/Ladder)
• [16:01] R.A.B. Mystery and Research Humor
• [21:57] Snape vs. Voldemort (Names/Parentage)
• [26:00] Harry Empathizes with Draco
• [28:38] The End of Parental/Protector Figure for Harry
• [32:00] Ministry of Magic Protection Debate
• [41:15] Harry and Ginny’s Breakup
• [47:02] Paying Tribute to Dumbledore & Funeral Unity
• [49:22] Non-Human Tributes (Centaurs, Merpeople)
• [52:12] Politicians at the Funeral—Motives & Optics
• [57:35] Absence of House Elves
• [59:02] Symbolism of the White Tomb & Arthurian Parallels
• [62:54] Host and Patron Tributes to Dumbledore (fun/heartfelt)

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Tone & Engagement

The tone is lively, heartfelt, and playful, blending serious literary analysis and emotional reflection with classic MuggleCast humor (and inside jokes about cheesy gordita crunches). The hosts stay true to their “we criticize because we care” mantra, offering both affectionate ribbing and thoughtful critiques.

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Memorable Moments

• Andrew singing the Blue’s Clues planets song [11:56]
• The send-off to MuggleCast’s “pensive” segment, with a shout-out to their Dumbledore voice actor [08:14]
• Cheeky comparisons of Harry & Ginny to comic book breakups [41:15]
• Recurring jokes about merchandise (“We criticize because we care” shirts, Laura’s ‘pants’ [06:21])
• The running tally of the oddest funeral attendees (Ernie, Trolley Lady, Grawp) [55:42]
• Playful fan tributes to Dumbledore (Phoenix Scholarship, “Dumbledore Day,” lemon drop shots) [64:30]

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Conclusion

In this milestone episode, the MuggleCast team captures the sense of both closure and anticipation at the end of Half-Blood Prince. The discussion is equal parts heartfelt and humorous — honoring Dumbledore, dissecting Harry’s emotional journey, and foreshadowing the journey ahead into Deathly Hallows. Above all, the episode is a testament to the enduring connection between the hosts, the books, and the passionate Harry Potter community.

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For those unable to listen, this summary captures the fun, depth, and spirit of this meaningful episode as MuggleCast faces "a Horcruxy road ahead."

Transcript

[Host/Announcer]

You guys know by now that we're loving Harry Potter the Official Film Podcast from HBO Max. If you haven't heard us talk about it, Harry Potter the Official Film Podcast takes a deep dive into every movie, starting at the beginning with the Philosopher's Stone. On every episode, you'll go behind the scenes, hear hot takes, hidden details and exclusive interviews with guests including Mike Newell, who directed the Goblet of Fire, special effects supervisor John Richardson, creature designer Nick Dudman, and many more of the brilliant minds who brought the wizarding world to life. We are so focused on the books here at michaelcast that Harry Potter the Official Film Podcast has been a perfect way to celebrate the movies, and this new show has reminded me just how

[Andrew]

much I love the films.

[Host/Announcer]

This podcast is a wonderful way to experience all the magic in a new light. Watch Harry Potter the Official Film Podcast on HBO Max or listen wherever you

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[Eric]

So good, so good, so good.

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[Laura]

Like, can you imagine being like 15 and calling yourself Lord Anything and then well into adulthood?

[Andrew]

Like, yeah, I'm still Major red flag

[Laura]

at 15, I'm still Lord Voldemort.

[Andrew]

Welcome to Mugglecast, your weekly ride into the world of Harry Potter.

[Eric]

I'm Andrew. I'm Eric.

[Micah]

I'm Micah.

[Laura]

And I'm Lara and we're your Harry

[Andrew]

Potter friends, gathering to talk about the books and the movies and the upcoming TV show. So. So follow us in your favorite podcast app and you'll never miss an episode. Every Wednesday and this week, we hope you can sing In Mermish or Fire and Arrow cleanly because we're paying tribute to Dumbledore and discussing chapter 30 of Half Blood, the White Tomb. Also the last chapter in Half Blood Prince. Another book gone. And helping us with today's discussion is Mugglecast patron Slug club member Sam. Welcome to the show, Sam.

[Sam]

Hi, thanks for having me. I'm happy to be here.

[Andrew]

Well, can we get your fandom id, please?

[Sam]

Yeah, for sure. So my favorite book is Prisoner of Azk fan. My favorite movie is also Prisoner of Azkian. I am a Hufflepuff. My patronus is a gray squirrel, and my favorite cast character is Dobby. And funny enough, we have a husband and I have three cats. And the middle cat, which is the black cat, is also called Dobby. And so when we got him, he was like the run to the litter and he had these like giant like bat like ears and then yellow eyes. So of course he had to be Dobby, as I have to mention all the other cats. So the first one is an orange cat and so we called him Rupert, which I like to say is an after Rupert, but my husband says it's actually for Rupert Giles from Buffy, which rit. And then of course we have a third cat, our little baby girl. Her name's Yui and she is named after a singer from one of our favorite animes.

[Andrew]

Okay, so lots of fandom connections, not just behind you, but also with your animals.

[Sam]

Oh, yeah, everything.

[Micah]

I feel as if it's not always that common for somebody's favorite book and favorite movie. If. If you like the Prisoner of Azkaban book as your favorite, you usually do not like the movie adaptation. So I'm curious, what is it about the movie adaptation that you really love?

[Sam]

I just really like the spin that Alfonso had on it. So I just thought it was really creative way to do the books. And like, I mean, I understand that's not totally accurate, but I think for Jaden. So Fiji choices that you chose. And so I understand the hate, but also I appreciate it.

[Laura]

Yeah, no, like the vibes were right. That's what it comes down to for that third movie. Yeah.

[Andrew]

But yeah, I think you're right. Micah Sam is a rare person who loves the book and the movie. Typically they either love one or the other, but not both.

[Eric]

And we come across that with book four a lot. I think recently too. Book four, movie four. Very kind of different vibes, but also some chaos. So. So it's always interesting.

[Micah]

I will say that the Prisoner of Azkaban movie has grown on me over the years. Very early on I was anti the adaptation and I know there's a lot of Plot missing. But as I watch the movie more and more, I've come to appreciate it more and more.

[Andrew]

Okay, that's good. Before we get into chapter by chapter, listeners, if you love mugglecast as much as the wizarding community loves Dumbledore, oh, that's gonna be proven today. Head over to patreon.com mugglecast and support us there. And to thank you, you'll receive bonus episodes of the show. You also get ad free episodes, early access to episodes, a monthly zoom hangout with the Mugglecasters, bonus episodes of the show, and a lot more. We can't do this without you, so thank you in advance and thanks to our newest patrons, including Bafflegab, Julia, Dylan, Nejwa, Melanie, Riley, Jaylen, Sarah, and Kylie. And listeners would also appreciate if you left us a review in your favorite podcast app or told a fellow Muggle about the show. And you can visit mugglecastmerch.com to buy official show gear. Like, I'm finally wearing the we criticize because we care T shirt. And we criticize because we. Oh, wow. Okay. Micah and Eric both have the 19 years later tee. Sam's wearing the muggle cast 15th anniversary tee. Beautiful.

[Laura]

Laura and I didn't get the memo, apparently, that we were coming on theme tonight.

[Eric]

Laura, you have an excuse every day. Just tell us you're wearing your pants.

[Andrew]

Bingo. Bingo.

[Laura]

That's true.

[Andrew]

We wouldn't ask you to prove it.

[Laura]

I hope not.

[Eric]

But Laura's pants are available on the website, so check that out.

[Sam]

They are.

[Andrew]

All right, so let's get to chapter by chapter. And this week we're discussing Half blood prince, chapter 30, the White Tomb.

[Eric]

You guys, this is the last pensive segment ever for Mugglecast, because we won't be doing it as we go into Deathly Hallows. The audio quality is just Too bad from 2007. But we last discussed this chapter on Mugglecast424, which was called Sad Woodstock. It aired on July 8th of 2019. And this segment, this clip is very Disney. What you're looking at are memories. This is the most important memory I've collected. It is from Magocast episode 424.

[Micah]

I thought it was a really nice tribute to have the centaurs, to have the merpeople come out and pay their respects in their own way. I think it speaks to Dumbledore's character and his reach just as a person.

[Eric]

I mean, this is interspecies tribute is how good it is. Like, these creatures would keep to themselves. Normally, the centaurs only care about what's in the sky. Except for Forens. The rest of the centaurs, they don't need to be there. And the fact that they are there shows that they know how significant this is.

[Andrew]

Well, now Dumbledore is in the sky too. Oh, man.

[Ad Reader]

Yeah.

[Eric]

I wonder if he is like, a star appeared the night.

[Host/Announcer]

Ding.

[Eric]

That was very Disney, right? Exactly. This memory is everything. So I think that sets the mood pretty greatly. And also one final shout out to Charlie Hopkinson, who has been our Michael Gambon Dumbledore the whole time during the Pensive segment. Check him out on TikTok. Charlie Hopkinson, he does a lot of cool voices over there. Just wanted to thank him again for his participation.

[Micah]

I will say that that Dumbledore voice is actually very sexy.

[Andrew]

Oh, yes.

[Micah]

I've been holding off saying that until the very end here. But as somebody who also carries a sexy voice, I figured I would pay tribute.

[Eric]

Yeah, it takes one to know one. Yeah, absolutely.

[Laura]

Micah, do we need to, like, arrange a meet? Cute for you, too.

[Eric]

I have his email.

[Andrew]

Micah's got something to say for Pride Month that I wasn't expecting.

[Eric]

Aw, we're gonna stand up and clap. All right, everybody. This is like the. There we go.

[Andrew]

Aww. Sam sitting there like, yay. Micah came out.

[Micah]

Speaking of going through emotions, that is what Harry is doing as we start this final chapter of Half Blood Prince. And Harry has developed a bit of a mantra as it relates to the Horcruxes. He's trying to channel some of his emotions towards figuring out exactly what it is he's supposed to do now that Dumbledore is gone and how to go about this impossible task that lays in front of him.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Harry's leaning forward at night. He's sitting by a fire and going, cersei, the Mount, the Hound, Joffrey.

[Laura]

That was the first thing I thought of, too.

[Eric]

Meryn Trant, Tywin, Ilyn Payne.

[Micah]

Yeah. Yeah, that was. That was pretty good recollection, actually.

[Eric]

I'm Google. I Googled it.

[Micah]

Oh, you did? Okay.

[Eric]

I'm such a fraud.

[Micah]

But it is. It is very reminiscent of Arya's list from Game of Thrones. That is also what came to mind for me. And I was curious, when we were growing up, did we have similar practices that we developed that helped us to remember things?

[Andrew]

I think so, yeah. I think in school you would have these certain memory tricks so you could ace them on tests, some sort of thinking like multiplication tables or acronyms to help you get to the answers that you're looking for. And I also think this mantra from Harry really foreshadows for the reader just how Horcrux focused the next book is going to be. Which I think, you know, in hindsight might be obvious, but that's basically just telling us that the book is going to be all Horcruxes all the time.

[Eric]

I liked it a lot. I definitely remember having, like, those little tricks or like mnemonics like every Good Boy Does Fine is the one that. The only one that comes to mind. But there were a lot of those for any particular subject to help with my recall during testing.

[Laura]

So, like, please excuse my dear Aunt Sally.

[Andrew]

Yes, that was a big one.

[Eric]

Was that the order of operations?

[Laura]

Yep.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Micah]

Isn't there one for the planets as well?

[Eric]

Oh.

[Laura]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. My very. I can't. My very educated mother. Just something I don't remember.

[Andrew]

A family member. Huh.

[Eric]

It sounds like seven word summary right now.

[Andrew]

You know what? And I won't be able to come up with this on the fly, but Blue's Clues did a solar system song and the planets are in order. Sam knows what I'm talking about. And I was gonna say.

[Sam]

Yeah, I don't remember, but I sing the song every time I need to.

[Andrew]

And Jupiter is bright, too. Earth's turn to me and you. Mars is the big one, Saturn's most wide. Super Uranus spins on the side. Neptune's really windy and Pluto's really small. You wanted to name the planets and now you've named them all.

[Eric]

Boom.

[Andrew]

It's like.

[Eric]

Meanwhile, our youngest listeners at home are going, what's Pluto and what's Blue's Clues? Yeah, well, there's. There is that.

[Micah]

Do we have to worry about copyright infringement for that rendition?

[Andrew]

You just. Singing was so bad that. No.

[Eric]

Yeah, I don't think it'll get flagged by Claude.

[Micah]

Yeah. So there is this quote from the book about the mantra specifically. And it's said that it seemed to pulse through Harry's mind as he fell asleep at night. And his dreams were thick with cups, lockets, and mysterious objects that he could not quite reach. Though Dumbledore helpfully offered Harry a rope ladder that turned to snakes the moment he began to climb. And we all know the importance of Harry's dreams in this series. And I wanted to spend a little bit of time trying to see if we could decipher what these snakes are all about. This ladder turning into snakes. Any thoughts?

[Eric]

I think that maybe, you know, it's like you think you're on firm footing, but. But it Turns out you're not. And so I think that it's very representative of how far, like, Harry sort of subconsciously feels like maybe he didn't get enough information or he, you know, has this mission from Dumbledore and it looks solid. It looks like it's going to be a good rope ladder to climb. But then when he reaches for it, turns, oh, God, it's snakes. He's not going to be able to climb that safely or without, you know, kind of harm coming to him. So I feel like maybe he gets an inkling. He's not yet at the point I think he gets to in Deathly Hallows where he's, like, frustrated with Dumbledore. But I think that the problem is he kind of realizes that there's a lot of information. He doesn't quite know how he's going to handle it. So I think he's feeling overwhelmed.

[Laura]

I agree with that. I think it just symbolizes Harry feeling like all of that setup he just got the entire year given to him by Dumbledore was actually a bunch of bs.

[Eric]

Because snakes, Laura, we're saying snakes instead of bs.

[Laura]

Yeah, exactly. But, like, I don't know. There's the symbolism, too, of, like, the perpetrator of murdering Dumbledore hails from Slytherin House, which, of course, like, their mascot is the Serpent. So, like, there are lots of different ties that we can make in here. But I think it says a lot more that the snake ladder is given to Harry by Dumbledore than it does that the latter actually turned into snakes, if that makes sense.

[Eric]

I like that a lot.

[Laura]

Yeah, he feels kind of, like, inadvertently betrayed, I think. And to your point, we see more of that come out in the next book.

[Eric]

Yeah, he's ages away from, like, consciously feeling that. But I love the idea that, like, the Seed is here for him to be subconsciously feeling that way.

[Micah]

What about you, Sam?

[Sam]

I just thought it was another reminder that Nagini is also a Horcrux. So don't forget about her.

[Eric]

Yeah, totally. So you get. You get cups and lockets and things out of reach and. Oh, my God, snake.

[Sam]

Yep.

[Micah]

So one of the other kind of big parts of this chapter before we get to Dumbledore's funeral surrounds two mysterious identities. The first being Rab and Hermione, actually comes across some really outlandish findings that, I mean, if they really want to spend some time digging deep into these people, go for it. But I don't think either of them are the person that Harry and company are looking for the first is Rosalind Antigone Bungs. The second is Rupert, Axe Banger, Brookstan.

[Andrew]

What are these names? Bungs, Brookstainer. It's interesting.

[Eric]

Well, keep in mind Hermione did all of this without Google. Google would not work at.

[Micah]

Very true and very fair.

[Eric]

So. Yeah, well.

[Andrew]

And in fairness, she does not know about Sirius's brother, at least his name, as far as I'm aware. If anybody should be making the connection here, it's Harry. But also Harry is going through a lot right now, so maybe you can understand why he's not making the connection. But I will just also add we were talking an episode or two ago about the fandom, how they felt about the Reb quote unquote mystery. Pretty much. There was a debate, but we, at least on Mugglecast, we knew it had to be Regulus. There was. It just made all the sense in the world.

[Laura]

I will also say I think it makes all the sense in the world that Harry wouldn't make the connection at this stage because he got to learn about Sirius's brother like once. Well over a year ago.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Laura]

Based on the family tree like that just doesn't seem like the kind of detail Harry's going to remember.

[Andrew]

True.

[Eric]

We also see in this chapter that Harry's kind of. He's kind of got a one track mind, which we'll talk about a little later. But he is putting the pieces together in the way that they fit. He's really only grown to hate Snape even more over the last sort of weeks in the beginning of the chapter. And there's not a lot of room for alternate theories or he's not doing his thinking right now. He's busy doing his feeling right now and has to sort of get through this. You getting something, Andrew?

[Andrew]

Oh, I'm just grabbing the book so I can toss it in the trash once we're done.

[Eric]

Oh yeah. I mean that's. Yeah, right.

[Micah]

That's what we do after every chapter by chapter.

[Andrew]

Right.

[Laura]

I throw it away.

[Andrew]

Famously precious, beloved original copy of Half

[Laura]

because we're never gonna open them again. This is it.

[Andrew]

I stick with the digital copy so that it's probably not wrong.

[Eric]

I opened my Goblet of Fire recently. Then I remembered that it's actually a hidden catch. There's like, it's hollowed out and there's like, I don't know, my passport from 20 years ago in there.

[Andrew]

You really have one that's a hidden.

[Eric]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got it in a. I think I was with either Micah or Andrew

[Andrew]

I thought it was this is ringing a bell now. Yeah, I remember this.

[Eric]

It was at a a street festival and Goblet of Fire. And I go to open it, I'm like oh, I wonder what the chapters are in Goblet of Fire and it's like inlaid with bejeweled and sp. I took the passport out that's going

[Andrew]

I was going to say you're not hiding valuables in there. It looks like so nobody rob Eric

[Eric]

and and go for that Goblet of Fire comes here. There's just going to be a little note in here. I'm going to write it tonight that's

[Andrew]

says made you look just like Regulus R A B oh yeah, yeah.

[Eric]

Oh no. It'll say to the Dark Lord, I have discovered your secret idiot.

[Andrew]

Ejs who's that?

[Host/Announcer]

You guys know by now that we're loving Harry Potter the Official Film Podcast from HBO Max. If you haven't heard us talk about it, Harry Potter the Official Film Podcast takes a deep dive into every movie, starting at the beginning with the Philosopher's Stone. On every episode, you'll go behind the scenes, hear hot takes, hidden details and exclusive interviews with guests including Mike Newell, who directed the Goblet of Fire, special effects supervisor John Richardson, creature designer Nick Dudman, and many more of the brilliant minds who brought the wizarding world to life. We are so focused on the books here at Megglecast that Harry Potter the Official Film Podcast has been a perfect way to celebrate the movies, and this new show has reminded me just how

[Andrew]

much I love the films.

[Host/Announcer]

This podcast is a wonderful way to experience all the magic in a new light. Watch Harry Potter the Official Film Podcast on HBO Max or listen wherever you

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[Micah]

Sometimes life rigs things in our favor like learning about your new favorite rom com voicemails for Isabel now playing only on Netflix. Well, Hermione is doing a bit of slow playing Harry here because, because the, the RAB names are really just a bit of a tease for the, the big reveal that she has for Harry and that she was right about Eileen Prince. No surprise that Hermione was on the right track. But if I'm Harry, I'm not sure I really want to hear this right now.

[Eric]

No, he, he really doesn't and it's, it's a shame because I, I think it's interesting how balanced it is of she. You know, nobody believes that R A B is this bung's person but it like softens the blow a little bit of. By the way though, I was actually spot on because she finds this prophet mention of Eileen Prince marrying Tobias Snape and that would have, if she had found that earlier in the year it would have 100% sealed the deal and changed the entire plot of the book.

[Micah]

One thing though that it does lead to is a bit of a conversation about Voldemort and Snape. And there's these comparisons that start to be drawn between the two of them. And to this Harry says about Snape and his mom. Yeah, that fits. He'd play up the pureblood side so he could get in with Lucius Malfoy and the rest of them. He's just like Voldemort, pureblood mother, Muggle father, ashamed of his parentage, trying to make himself feared. Using the dark arts, he gave himself an impressive new name, Lord Voldemort, the Half Blood Prince. How could Dumbledore have missed.

[Eric]

Yeah, this is an example of Harry's sort of tunnel vision I think here because like it's true that you could see the Half Blood Prince as some kind of self aggrandizing nickname, but I think what it really underscores and Harry will get this when he sees the memory from young Snape cowering in a corner while his dad yells at his mom. You know, it's a way of honoring his mother is what it comes down to. Like I don't think of the Half Blood Prince as something Snape did to Bragg. I think of it as a way of drumming up his, the mother connection that, that he loves. So the other aspect of this is that Snape being such a good chameleon double agent, it maybe was actually very useful for him to have a nickname kind of like Lord Voldemort does so that the Death Eaters would believe he was one of them because all the cool cats have it. So again, it might not be like he's adopted this name because he likes it the way that Harry so like close mindedly thinks that he does. There's just a lot more going on with Snape. Like Harry does not at all consider. We aren't shown that. He considers that Snape may have killed Dumbledore on purpose, on Dumbledore's orders. That Dumbledore was intending for it to happen exactly that way.

[Laura]

Totally. Harry is in complete confirmation bias mode here. It's like everything that he has believed about Snape for the last six years, he believes has been proven correct by what he just witnessed. Right. So to him it's like, it's very linear, you know, A, B, then C is my outcome. So yeah, he's just, he's not in a place to be thinking with any level of nuance about this or like to really be thinking about how strategic Dumbledore is now. He's just thinking of him as an old man who got fooled.

[Sam]

Yeah.

[Laura]

Honestly.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Who he had learned to trust.

[Micah]

Laura, you also had a nice call out here though for Snape.

[Laura]

Oh, in defense of Snape. Yeah. So I'll say this. At the very least, Snape dropped his high school edgelord pseudonym before he branched into adulthood, which is more than we can say about Voldemort.

[Host/Announcer]

Hey, I still think it's. I still think it's cool. Leave me alone.

[Laura]

Like, can you imagine being like 15 and calling yourself Lord Anything and then well into adulthood?

[Andrew]

Like, yeah, I'm still major red flag at 15.

[Laura]

I'm still Lord Voldemort.

[Eric]

Yeah. Well, the other component is you just have to strike fear into everyone that hears it.

[Laura]

Right.

[Micah]

Well, the chosen one lumps himself into the mix, noting that he went the other direction. I think this is actually an astute observation on the part of Harry.

[Laura]

Yeah, I definitely think so.

[Andrew]

Went the other direction as in he went to the good side. He didn't.

[Micah]

Yeah. He didn't fall into the same traps as Voldemort and Snape did.

[Eric]

Right.

[Micah]

Or as Snape allegedly did. We should still give him the benefit of the doubt despite what he did to Alby. One other thing that I thought was important to call out that throughout all this or this is actually at the funeral, I think Harry is reflecting on, on Draco in particular. And he, he really pities him. Like I. It's a situation. I think somebody has a note in here about that. I don't think Draco would have ever wanted Harry to bear witness to, but he does. And I think it is very revealing of Draco's true character that, you know, we see that he, he never would have had the ability to take out Dumbledore and, and Harry. I, I, I, I don't want to say that things are fully resolved between him and Draco, but there seems to be a part of him that, you know, no longer maybe looks at Draco the same way that he once did, 100%.

[Eric]

It's a big, big moment for Harry

[Andrew]

and I hate to call big character

[Laura]

development for both of them, honestly. Go ahead, Andrew.

[Andrew]

Well, and I don't know if foreshadow's the right term here, but this does hint at what is to come, that Harry and Draco will make amends and become friends.

[Eric]

Ish Frenemies co stars in the Cursed Child.

[Laura]

I mean, I think it's ultimately important to the setup that, you know, we have ahead of the encounter they have at Malfoy Manor in the next book where Draco, like, it's pretty clear Draco knows it's Harry, but he's hesitating to out Harry for who he is. Yeah, and I think Harry knows that Draco knows. You can extrapolate that further to talk about then what Narcissa does at the end of the book. Right. So it's just, yeah, it's very interesting.

[Eric]

And Malfoy never would have chosen for Harry to kind of witness his failing. Of course he wouldn't. But because he did, Harry is able to then empathize and be like, well, what's Voldemort doing right now to Draco because Draco failed? Is he taunting him like he's clearly in a situation well over his head. And that, you know, may in fact be a gift. The last gift that Dumbledore gave to Harry was this keen insight into his would be enemy, which has the effect of eventually making Harry understand that Draco is not ultimately his enemy.

[Micah]

Well, one of the other things that we're able to kind of take away, we're going to spend a lot of time honoring Dumbledore in the next part of the conversation. But as Harry is sitting there at Dumbledore's funeral, he really starts to recognize that things are forever changed. All of these people who have been his protectors for all of his life or for parts of his life are now gone. And the quote from the book is, and Harry saw very clearly as he sat there under the hot sun how people who cared about him had stood in front of him one by one, his Mother, his father, his godfather, his, and finally Dumbledore, all determined to protect him. But now that was over. And Eric, this might go a little bit to what you were just saying. Is it, is it fair to say that Dumbledore's funeral is as much about paying tribute to him as it is about a transfer of responsibility?

[Eric]

I think so. I think that Harry internally understands that no one is left who can shield him from the pain he's now feeling. And so I think he's feeling very vulnerable, both for the first time. But maybe he's like, oh, well, they were always not as sturdy as I thought they were. So he's just having to feel the full weight of his emotions. Even when Sirius died last year, even though he raged and raged at Dumbledore, he still had somebody in Dumbledore who understood how he felt about Sirius. And no one that Harry knows, none of his friends, including Ron and Hermione really quite understand the way that Harry felt about Dumbledore. And he's got to bear sort of the weight of his grief pretty much singularly even though this is the most well attended funeral like Harry will ever see.

[Andrew]

I think Harry's being a little too hard on himself though. He still has people looking out for him. Lupin's the first character that comes to mind. Um, but on the other hand, I think it's normal at this stage for Harry to wallow in this sorrow and be like, you know, oh, all my people are gone. It is true that the biggest people, a couple of the biggest people are gone, Dumbledore and Sirius, namely. But yeah, I, I just, I just think he's, he's beaten himself up a little too much. And maybe in time he comes to realize, especially when you get around to like the Seven, Seven Potters, all these people who are helping him. There's a lot of people who are still on his side and still care for him and still want to protect him and we'll do anything. We put their own lives in danger as we see in this chapter with Ginny, to, to, to protect him and do right by the Wizarding World.

[Laura]

I think that's part of what he has a problem with though is not wanting anyone else to die for him. And I think what you just brought up, Andrew, though, it kind of speaks to the level of isolation that Harry's feeling and we've gotten to see how Harry reacts to isolation before and that was pretty much the entirety of Order of the Phoenix. When he felt so alone in this struggle that nobody else could understand, he's in a similar place here. So I think that's why he's going full like catastrophizing and assuming that he really has no one left when that couldn't be further from the truth.

[Micah]

Well, one person that is more than happy to offer assistance to Harry Harry wants none of and that is the Minister for Magic, Rufus Scrimgeor. But he does make a pretty decent offer to give Harry or protection or assistance. And I'll be honest, is this the best moment for the Minister to be approaching Harry? Probably not. Is there a good moment? Probably not.

[Andrew]

Time is of the essence. I can see that's why the Ministry. The Minister wants to say something now.

[Micah]

But should Harry have at least taken a little bit of time to consider the offer?

[Eric]

Yes, yes.

[Andrew]

Jinx. Harry brings up the orders are not going to stop Voldemort. So I, I think that's a really good point.

[Eric]

They can slow him down a little bit, right? Like to refuse Auror protection because it's not 100% infallible is stupid.

[Andrew]

Your people suck.

[Eric]

Yeah, I mean, look, we know, especially hindsight being 2020 that Rufus Scrimgeour can't even protect his own life for very much longer. So yes, it's reasonable to assume that Harry has something right about oh, it's imperfect and, and your guys won't do a good job and what I'd be giving up is too much. Okay. But at this juncture, to Laura's point, Harry's convinced he's going it completely alone. He doesn't even think Ron and Hermione are going to join him because he's catastrophizing. He's like, I'm so alone. I'm so isolated. I'm going it alone. And if you're in that place where you're really fully preparing to go after four Horcruxes on your own and the Minister for Magic comes and offers you his best auras pretty much like he's not going to. Because here's the other thing. Scrimjour is not going to give Harry's protector like to job to bad Aurors. He's gonna probably choose his best people because they need Harry to be the poster boy, et cetera, et cetera. So they need Harry alive. If something bad happens to Harry and the Aurors were with him, that makes the Ministry look horrible.

[Andrew]

It's a great point. It's a great point.

[Laura]

See my. And this is where I disagree. I think my disagreement stems from the reality that Scrymgeour isn't doing this for Harry's protection. I don't even know that he personally gives a damn about Harry's protection. At the end of the day, what he's concerned about is good optics for the Ministry. So if they can do anything to sort of pass off the appearance of Harry Potter teaming up with the Ministry to fight Voldemort they get to ride Harry's coattails if he succeeds. And they get to spin the narrative about what happened in a way that is most advantageous to them if he fails. Plus, Ministry has been infiltrated. So I don't think there's any reason to trust any of these Aurors, especially ones that the current Minister for Magic believes to be trustworthy.

[Eric]

Well, it would be Kingsley, right? And Kingsley's in the order.

[Laura]

I mean, would it be.

[Eric]

Yeah, Kingsley and Dawlish. I mean, one would probably kill the other.

[Micah]

In fairness, Tonks was at Hogwarts for a portion of this year and the Death Eaters still infiltrated the school.

[Laura]

Right.

[Andrew]

That's just one.

[Eric]

Blame Tonks.

[Andrew]

That's a little unfair. And she was depressed.

[Micah]

Sam, I did see you nodding your head while Laura was talking. So I was curious if there was anything else you wanted to add there.

[Sam]

Yeah, I definitely Laura's head. It's kind of hard to trust anyone there. And also, like, I mean, what if they did side up, like, with Carry. What if that would change, like, the entire book seven. Like, what if, you know, Voldemort realized, you know, they're going after my. If you like, change everything and then. And then he'd be screwed because he wouldn't be where. Where they are. Where he figures out they are later. So, yeah, I feel like it was like a safety net to not involve them so that Voldemort isn't aware of what Harry Dumbles are new so that he would be none the wiser.

[Micah]

Yeah, it's too risky.

[Laura]

Yeah, they're a liability.

[Andrew]

How awesome would it have been if the author named the last book Harry Potter and the Ministry of Magic and then it, like, totally faked us out? Like, wait, is he gonna team up with the Ministry of Magic?

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What is this?

[Eric]

Oh, Harry Potter.

[Andrew]

And I would have just liked if we were all freaking out. Like, oh, no. How could he team up with the Ministry and then that is not the case.

[Eric]

That would be fun.

[Andrew]

But I do think there would have been some value in not saying the Minister Ministry is doing a great job but offering the wizarding community some sort of statement. There could have been something to make the community Feel a little bit more comfortable about the situation. Harry doesn't have all the answers, but I think he could have said something. Hey, guys, I know what I need to do. Hey, guys, I'm working on it.

[Host/Announcer]

I don't know, just something.

[Andrew]

He doesn't speak for the Ministry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He doesn't have to circle back next year.

[Eric]

Let's circle back.

[Andrew]

We're gonna put a pit in this. I'm gonna go on the road for a little while, see what's happening. In the meantime, sign up.

[Micah]

That's so ministry.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host/Announcer]

No, I just, I.

[Andrew]

He wouldn't be doing it for the Ministry. He's doing it for the wider wizarding public. That's what I think he should have done. I think there's something to come up with a statement.

[Eric]

Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. I think there's absolutely something to that. I think to dismiss any and all involvement between him and the Ministry right out the gate, right here at Dumbledore's funeral is premature and. Or not super well thought out. We know it works out. But, yeah, there's some value to that. I think. Also Harry's just very cynical or just so downtrodden and so upset right now that the idea of even planting false hope in a wizarding public is unbearable because he himself does not really have that much hope to begin with. So Harry himself is feeling helpless and he's having dreams about snake ladders and, you know, all this stuff. It's like, maybe if Harry were feeling a little bit more optimistic, his answer might have been a little different.

[Laura]

Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Like, I don't really think it's appropriate to say, well, our government isn't able to offer any kind of rallying sentiment to make people feel better. So let's ask this 16 year old to do it. I would also just observe, like, who all is present at this funeral. And I know we're going to chat about that a little more later, but, like, Umbridge is there and we know that she kind of gets, like, her own operation Shanghaied by the Locket Horcrux in the next book. Right. So she's vulnerable. And if Harry stands up in front of everyone and says, don't worry, guys, I have a plan that it isn't. It doesn't exactly, like, guarantee him the level of secrecy that he needs to be able to move forward because Rita Skeeter is there, too. So she's gonna be like, hey, Daily Prophet, Harry Potter has a plan. Don't worry. What might his plan Be you ask. Well, I'm gonna ask some of his schoolmates what they think it is.

[Micah]

Interesting too, from an awareness standpoint. You would think that if, if you were the ministry, the last thing that you would want is somebody like Umbridge to show up at Dumbledore's funeral. If you're trying to get Harry on your side. Oh, so clearly was not thought through very much on the part of the minister. But I agree there. And look, anybody should be able to pay tribute to Double Door. But I'm not quite sure that's why Umbridge was there at the end of the day. No, no, no. Same goes for Rita.

[Laura]

Yeah, yeah.

[Eric]

Well, Rita's taking notes. Rita's got a little quill and a notepad.

[Andrew]

I have a theory about that, but I'll save it for when we get through the funeral.

[Micah]

So the last thing I wanted to touch on before we talk about the funeral itself was the road ahead. And it's very emotional conversation between Harry and Ginny. And Harry feels very strongly that they need to part ways because he recognizes the importance of distancing himself from those that are closest to him. Though people would still know that he was in a relationship with Ginny. So I don't know that I really agree with this. At the end of the day, there's so many people out there that are close to Harry that would be targets. But for the purposes of the story, Harry and Ginny and the purposes of Eric's fan fiction.

[Eric]

Right, right. This is the sad ending that has to exist at the end of the book so that we can reflect on all the good that will yet to be written. No, I agree. I think that we in the past have compared it to like the ending of Spider Man 1 When Peter Parker tells Mary Jane they can't be together for reasons. And it's not a wrong sort of comparison. I. But what I appreciate most on this read through is the way that Ginny not only takes the news, she says it's for some sad, stupid, noble reason, isn't it? And it's like, oh, she understands like a hundred percent and she understands sort of more than Harry does kind of what it is that he wants or needs. There's two moments in this chapter where Ginny kind of wordlessly, Harry doesn't really have much of a focus and she like nudges him or points to like, oh, that, like, look at the lake. Something's happening in the lake. And he's like, huh, what? And looks at it and so I think that Ginny is doing Something very, very. That's very, very hard to do, that not a lot of other people could do, which is to anticipate Harry's needs and emotions right now. And I think that. But believe it or not, nobody's more surprised than me. There's actually some little bits in this chapter that I think solidify that they are actually really perfect for one another. Even though he's breaking up with her here.

[Andrew]

Well, speaking of superheroes, Sam, this reminded you of a superhero scenario as well?

[Sam]

Yeah, no, very tech floors right out of my mouth. I thought of Spider man as well and thought, you know, it's the superhero cliche of I got to wake up with my girlfriend, save them, but, you know, if things work out, they're going to get back together.

[Andrew]

It's kind of insulting to the partner, like, oh, you're doing this. Because I definitely can't survive this unless you break up with me. Yeah.

[Eric]

Although it's also hard for, For Ginny to be like, no, you're right. Because he says, what would happen if I lost you, too? Like, Harry right now is so, so, so hurt at losing Dumbledore. Ginny isn't selfish enough to say, like, no, you'll. You don't need to worry about losing me. Because she doesn't know. Right. And so she understands that he cares about her quite a lot. So I. I don't know. It's like what anybody would, Would, would react if, if they said this, if this, if you said the same thing to them or them to you. It's like, okay, I'll let you have this one for now.

[Micah]

What about Ron and Hermione?

[Eric]

They're holding hands. They're crying on each other. I think they're going places.

[Micah]

Yeah, well, you know, one breakup, one union, all happening at a funeral. But no. This surprised me, though, that Harry didn't think that Ron and Hermione would want to go with him.

[Andrew]

Yeah, of course.

[Host/Announcer]

I don't.

[Andrew]

Is this just like Harry in grieving mode, not thinking this through? Because, yeah, of course they're gonna go with him and somebody needs to go with him.

[Eric]

I mean, my goodness, he has to take Hermione.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Like, yeah.

[Andrew]

I don't know. Is he thinking he's gonna take somebody from, from the Order? That's the only other thing I can think, like, bring an adult with him. I don't know. But you can't do this by yourself. There's no way.

[Laura]

Yeah, I don't actually think he's thinking logically about it. This is an emotional response. And Again, I think it's the feelings of isolation.

[Andrew]

Well. And who can blame Harry for not wanting Ron and Hermione to go when he just lost another dear person in his life? Like how? Like he brings us up. How many more people can I put in harm's way? It is a tough situation.

[Laura]

Well, and he's a girlfriend too, you know.

[Eric]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andrew]

But if they're offering, then the fault is, you know, not his. Oh, well, you wanted to come. Sorry that you're dead, but you wanted to come.

[Micah]

They've always worked threesome, right? They've always been together. It the fact that he just doesn't think that they would come along with him. I don't know how you would expect to get anything done without them.

[Eric]

Honestly, he doesn't have a glimmer of hope. He's hopelessly outmatched and uninformed. But that's just it. You don't know how he would think. He's not thinking. He's not thinking right now.

[Andrew]

You need Hermione's giant bag. That is the key to all of

[Eric]

this, if nothing else.

[Andrew]

If nothing else, think of the bag.

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[Micah]

All right, it is time to pay tribute to Albus Dumbledore here on Mugglecast. Hopefully the TV show will pay tribute to him unlike the movie did. Because as we said, I think on the last episode, you can't have two funerals in one movie. No, you have to pay tribute to the big giant spider

[Andrew]

over Dumbledore himself.

[Micah]

That's true.

[Eric]

That spider's done a lot for the wizarding world.

[Micah]

But yeah, I appreciate the max that Andrew. This is something that absolutely needs to make it to the TV show. And it's very clear. And this was played in the pensive clip that Dumbledore is beloved by the wizarding community. And I was wondering, do we think that his funeral is a reflection of the unity he was working so desperately toward? And when I was thinking about it, I thought that it was this bittersweet element because the unity begins to arrive after his death. So while he was alive, people questioned him, they ignored him, they removed him from positions of authority and they often call him names.

[Andrew]

Yeah, they doubted what he was saying about Voldemort being back. He was absolutely right about that.

[Eric]

They wouldn't let him play in any of the Reindeer Games.

[Andrew]

Yeah, you're right, though, Micah. They didn't realize what they had until he was gone. It reminds me of when I order a cheesy gordita grunch at Taco Bell, I eat it and then only after I woof it down do I truly appreciate what that cheesy Gordita crunch did for me.

[Micah]

And what did it do for you?

[Andrew]

It brought me a lot of joy and happiness and it knew that Voldemort was back. But I was thinking like, the turnout for Dumbledore's funeral is impressive. And I was thinking, like, who could draw this amount of people? You know, the students, of course, will show up, but from outside of Hogwarts, this is a pretty impressive lineup. This is like a presidential level type of funeral, in my opinion. And it obviously speaks to just Dumbledore's influence and his accomplishments in the wizarding world.

[Eric]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Micah]

Absolutely. Yeah. Significant are both the Merpeople and the Centaurs. And we know that Dumbledore treated non human magical beings with respect, with dignity, when others did not. And I think their presence is a testament to the bridges that he was trying to build in the wizarding community. And I think the Centaurs in particular, because of how isolationist we know them to be, the fact that they would all come, that they would all show up and pay tribute to him is pretty extraordinary.

[Laura]

Agreed, Definitely. I think especially since we know that they don't entirely agree with Dumbledore. I'm thinking specifically about his decision making in Order of the Phoenix with making Forens the Divination Professor. Like, obviously we know they took that out on Forens more than anyone, but they definitely didn't agree with what Dumbledore was doing.

[Micah]

Some other notables, the house ghosts are all there.

[Eric]

Yeah, yeah. You can't quite see them, but they're there.

[Laura]

I mean, what else do they have

[Andrew]

too much of a surprise.

[Micah]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

This is like the most.

[Micah]

Where was Peeves, by the way?

[Andrew]

Probably causing trouble in the school. This is a perfect opportunity to cause some chaos. Nobody can yell at him.

[Micah]

He was probably cast in Sorcerer's Stone.

[Eric]

Peeves was flitting between the feet of every. Everyone at the funeral tying their shoes together. And we didn't see this part but as they stand up they just fall flat on their faces.

[Micah]

Now we, we alluded to this earlier but the, the ministry officials who are in attendance scrim JR we, we talked about. But Umbridge and Fudge are both there and I have questions about both of these individuals. For Umbridge, do you think she was forced to show up for Fudge, this is probably the most curious of any appearance for me because we know number one, he's no longer minister. Number two, he didn't have a great relationship with Dumbledore.

[Andrew]

So in terms of Umbridge, who would have forced her to go scrymgeour?

[Eric]

Maybe I think her role like I don't. I agree she was forced. I don't think it was by a person. I think her hand was forced. I think that given what she's hoping to accomplish, you know, at the ministry with a high ranking political whatever it is that she's going for, you can't not show up to quote, pay your respects to a dignitary like Dumbledore even though her presence is disrespect. Really. Yeah.

[Andrew]

She's not there because she cared about Dumbledore. She's there to make an appearance that she's there for work. She's there to show that she showed up like other ministry officials. Maybe she was also there to talk up some people. Like there were definitely ulterior motives that were not, oh, I loved Dumbledore so much and I'm paying my respects.

[Laura]

No, I think it's optics.

[Eric]

Again, her actions would have been noted.

[Laura]

Yeah. This is what it goes back to I think for Fudge and for Umbridge is how does it make them look

[Eric]

for Fudge, I see it a little differently because I feel like in his own way Fudge feels like he maybe had.

[Andrew]

Is responsible for his back.

[Eric]

No, no, no, no.

[Ad Reader]

For.

[Eric]

But that he respected the man. Like I think we know that no such thing happened that, you know, Fudge and Dumbledore were not friends. But I wonder or can't help but wonder if Fudge thinks that they were right. Like Fudge might think that that there was some level of mutual respect when in fact we would know it to Be more one sided. Does that make sense?

[Andrew]

Yeah, I could see him being delusional like that.

[Laura]

I mean he is kind of out of touch, so that tracks.

[Andrew]

But I really do think he, he could feel a little responsible for Dumbledore's death. He was denying the return of Voldemort that years wasted.

[Host/Announcer]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Sam, what do you think?

[Sam]

To go back to Umbridge? Do you think maybe she went just out of like some morbid pleasure of seeing Dumbledore dead? I mean she watched like, you know, so many students writing with their own blood and stuff like that and the whole Bubbleborn thing and you know, took away wise from witches and wizards that she think didn't deserve us.

[Andrew]

Like that's a great point. I wouldn't put that past her for sure.

[Laura]

No, it strikes me as like pretty accurate that her internal monologue at this funeral would be, you know, well, look where, look where you ended up, Albus. You're so much smarter than all of us and look where you are. Like she's petty. She would have that kind of dialogue running through her head.

[Micah]

Yeah, not, not trying to give Umbridge any sort of benefit of the doubt here, but is it also possible that Hogwarts professors were invited no matter if you were a current professor or former professor?

[Andrew]

Oh yeah, yeah, that would make sense too during Dumbledore's reign. Yeah, but still she wouldn't have, she wouldn't have to show up.

[Eric]

No, no, no, I would. I could easily see Minerva making sure that invitation in particular gets lost in the mail.

[Andrew]

Yeah, would Dumbledore1 umbridge there no doubt it.

[Eric]

Well, but that's the thing, isn't it? Is that I, I, what Harry is going through feels reminiscent. Not that I have a specific example of someone I know that attended somebody's funeral who they didn't get along with. But like this feels true to life, right? That in we convince ourselves or like funerals are an opportunity, maybe one of their main purposes is closure. Not for the dead person, but for anyone that knew them. And so this is several people who were more adversarial toward Dumbledore. This is several people's way of saying goodbye to that relationship. It's more for them than for him.

[Micah]

That's a good point. A few of the other random characters that make an appearance or are noted are Tom the barman from the leaky Cauldron, Ernie from the night Bus, the mysterious barman. There's a lot of barmen floating around. But it's Tumbledore's funeral, of course, from the Hogshead the trolley lady who we still don't have a name for. Grop. Rita Skeeter. So we're definitely going through the feels here from previous books.

[Host/Announcer]

Yeah, well, in terms of.

[Andrew]

It is cool to see this large roster of people come back to Hogwarts to pay their respects. In terms of Rita Skeeter, Eric, I think you mentioned she's there with a notebook. I'm guessing she's doing some reporting for her Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore book. At first glance, she might just be there to report for the profit, but she turns that book around in just a few months. She's actively working on it right now. If she wasn't even working on it before Dumbledore died.

[Eric]

Yeah, yeah, I've never seen that. Yeah, I've never put that together before reading it this time and yeah, it makes perfect sense.

[Andrew]

And there's so many people to talk to here for her for this book. I mean, it's an amazing opportunity.

[Eric]

In fact, there's somebody that gives a eulogy. It's gotta be Elphinstoge, doesn't it? Like, it's. But he's not named and he's not really described that well because Harry in particular is tuning out. But yeah, I agree that all the people that would have juicy scoops on Dumbledore are probably the ones at his wedding or at his funeral.

[Andrew]

Oh, wait a rubbish.

[Eric]

His wedding to Grindelwald was cut. It would have been in the fourth Fantastic Beasts film.

[Laura]

But well, no, not cut, just parked.

[Eric]

Parked, parked.

[Micah]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

That turnout is amazing. I can't think of a single other group of beings who should be there. That's a wonderful turnout.

[Micah]

It is, isn't it? But Andrew, noticeable by their absence are the house elves.

[Andrew]

Oh. Huh.

[Micah]

Where the hell are the house elves? Are they busy cooking lunch for everybody? Like, hey, Dobby Pastrami on rai, you know.

[Andrew]

Well, it is. It is strange because the centaurs and the merpeople are there.

[Micah]

So are they only allowed to run out of the kitchens once in the next book when, you know, creature comes running out with a frying pan?

[Eric]

Oh, I'm certainly glad that they do. No, I think that the stigma of house elves is so great that they were. They are prevented from showing up somebody higher up, maybe about half the school governors feel that it would be indecent for to have the help be so visible. That's my take on it anyway.

[Laura]

Yeah, well, and I think. I think it's probably likely that they just weren't considered that nobody thought to invite Them? Yeah, just like nobody really thinks about their well being in these books except for Hermione.

[Eric]

Also, what did Dumbledore do for them?

[Andrew]

Hey, yeah, that's what I was thinking. That's a whole other can of worms.

[Micah]

But like

[Andrew]

they're working for him at the school.

[Micah]

Legalized. Gillyweed said they're making some cheesy gordita crunches.

[Andrew]

Oh yeah.

[Eric]

I want that for reasons.

[Micah]

So I thought we could wrap up this chapter and this book just talking about the symbolism of where Dumbledore is buried inside of this white tomb. Because we love symbolism on this show. And I think as, as we all know, white is a symbol of purity and transcendence. And throughout the series, Dumbledore repeatedly teaches Harry that death is a natural part of life. And what's so cool about this is that it stands in direct opposition to Voldemort whose entire life is defined by the fear of death. And in Deathly Hallows, Dumbledore rests in this white tomb. And it's almost like this acceptance of death. Voldemort, as we'll read when we get to Deathly Hallows, violates this tomb because he cannot accept death. Right. He's going after the Elder Wand. And Dumbledore's body is left undisturbed despite the theft while Voldemort's obsession ultimately destroys him. So I don't think it's by accident that Dumbledore is buried in this white tomb.

[Eric]

Also, Albus means white white

[Micah]

and Dumbledore means bumblebee.

[Laura]

Yep.

[Eric]

Yeah, yeah. It's not mentioned in this chapter but there's actually a lot of bumblebees around the tomb.

[Micah]

And in doing other little bit of research on the tomb it's said to almost have this Arthurian quality to it because in King Arthur when he passes, he's taken across the water to Avalon, which is a sacred island where he rests after his final battle. And it was also noted that water often functions in mythology as a boundary between worlds. The realm of the living and the realm of the dead or the ordinary world in the sacred world. So again, a lot of symbolism at play here with, with where physically Dumbledore is resting. I think in the movie they move him to an island but I think in the books he's just kind of on the shores of, of the lake. Anything else before we, we put a bow on Half Blood Prince?

[Eric]

Oh, did you. I know we mentioned who else is there. Did we talk about Madame Maxime? Just that she's there and Hagrid is very, very happy to see her.

[Micah]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Good for them. Find some joy on the sad, sad day.

[Micah]

You think they would get into a throuple with Grop or. That's too much.

[Eric]

That's too much.

[Andrew]

Well, I think that's too much.

[Laura]

Prop is Hagrid's brother.

[Micah]

Half brother.

[Eric]

Half brother.

[Andrew]

Half brother. Excuse me.

[Laura]

Oh, yeah, sorry. So much better.

[Andrew]

That makes it okay. That's why Mike is asking, do we

[Micah]

have the DNA results to prove that?

[Andrew]

23.

[Eric]

I'd like to see you try and get them.

[Micah]

I don't want to even think about that. But you know what's interesting? When you said metamaxine, because I thought, oh, where's Karkaroff? And I'm like, oh, yeah.

[Eric]

Oh, he died.

[Micah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Andrew]

No, you know, like I said, another book gone. This. This one is kind of important in the history of Mugglecast, of course, because we had. The book had just come out when Mugglecast started and we were speculating about this book, and here we are, 21 years later, still talking about, you know, the details of this book. It's amazing.

[Eric]

Really love that.

[Micah]

Yeah. All right, well, over on our links line, we asked the question, how would you pay tribute to Dumbledore? And we'll get to the host answers first before we jump into the questions for. Or the answers from our patrons.

[Andrew]

Yeah, you know, gin came up in this book, actually. And I would just toast Dumbledore with the finest glass of gin I could find. Maybe Emma Watson's gin. I don't know if that's the finest glass, but I'll. I'll grab her gin for the Harry Potter connection.

[Eric]

I will pay tribute to Dumbledore by embroiling everyone I know in a secret plot that will change their lives forever. But I won't tell them then when they guess that this is happening, because so much is happening around them, I will never tell them when they are correct about it. And I will leave the only hope of them figuring out the answers with their most hated individual, my murderer, who himself will have to die before they ever get their secrets told and answers received.

[Andrew]

It'll still all get worked out in the end. So I guess it was a smart move after all.

[Eric]

We love a happy ending. So that was my idea.

[Micah]

I just went with a Phoenix Scholarship at Hogwarts. A nice way to honor the former headmaster.

[Andrew]

That's actually a good answer. Good job. That's really good.

[Laura]

I was just feeling kind of unhinged, so I said, I'll ask one of my co hosts to murder me.

[Micah]

Oh, my Gosh, Andrew, please.

[Laura]

That's exactly what I was thinking.

[Andrew]

You're like, I've been waiting for this.

[Eric]

I gotta have it. Hey, if you keep at it with the cheesy gordita crunches, eventually. Eventually.

[Andrew]

Yeah, it's true.

[Sam]

And I would toast with a lemon drop shot as a nod to Dumbledore's favorite Muggle candy.

[Eric]

Aw, I love that.

[Andrew]

I also like that because a couple weeks ago for my birthday, my friend bought the friend group around a lemon drop shots, and they were so good. That's a good crowd pleasing shot. I think they really like them.

[Sam]

They're really good.

[Andrew]

Over on Patreon, Matthew said if we were to do something that really exemplifies his legacy as Hogwarts headmaster, we'd have to remove every protective measure and spell. Come on. Like I said with Eric, it all worked out in the end. Okay,

[Eric]

well, John says I would leave one sock and a king chess piece. Forever the chess master.

[Micah]

I love that. Carly said I'd leave a sherbet lemon on his grave as an ode to his whimsy and love for Muggle sweets.

[Eric]

Oh, it's a great way to commemorate the last time that the password to the headmaster's office is going to be guessable.

[Laura]

Yeah, Rachel says I'd update his chocolate frog card to include his tenure at Hogwarts, his work bringing down Voldemort, and his love of socks.

[Andrew]

Amy said I would petition the school to have one day set aside as Dumbledore's Day. No classes, and everyone given the time to just be whimsical and kind to one another.

[Micah]

Cute.

[Eric]

I love that. And Zach says I would leave everyone on a vague and dangerous scavenger hunt with the intention of the winner sacrificing themselves at the end for the great good of the rest of the scavengers.

[Micah]

And Carly, who's listening live in the discord, said I didn't get to comment on the post in time, but I'd make up a new knitting pattern and name it after him.

[Laura]

That's sweet.

[Eric]

Yeah, that is really sweet. Very touching. I'm sure he'd love it.

[Andrew]

Thanks, everybody who participated [e-mail] mugglecast and if you have any feedback about today's episode, you can send an email or a voice memo that you record on your phone to mugglecastmail.com youm can also leave a comment on Spotify or YouTube or DM us on social. We love hearing from you, so please send in that feedback. You can visit mugglecast.com for links to our social media, our Patreon, our transcript, our favorite episodes, and much more. And now it's time for one last time in its current format. Oh, Quizzage.

[Eric]

We have a number of questions to give you the answers to here. Here's one. In this chapter, Harry discovers the locket that he and Dumbledore retrieved is a fake. Question is in the 1920s, what famous designer was known for wearing faux pearl necklaces? As a statement about fash being accessible to more than just the elite, the answer to that question was Coco Chanel. And 50% of people with the correct answer say they didn't look it up. And this week's winners might be one of my favorite batches of names of all time. Correct answers were submitted by Aberforth's Magical Goat Inn Adventure. Deborah Eden The Muggleborn established 2012's last Kwizzitch as a middle schooler.

[Micah]

Oh, congratulations.

[Andrew]

Congratulations.

[Eric]

Ginny Otterly. He's a fake. He's not Santa. Huffling and Pufflin and blowing your house down. I play Fluffy's harp. I wanna Cadaveria Ivy Lynn the Alamancer, Mrs. Ron Weasley Pat's Cookies for 2027 physical gift the Wily.

[Micah]

Oh, that came up in the Slug Club by the way.

[Eric]

Oh, I think I know who that is. And Volditort. Okay, and also here's the next question. In this chapter, Harry feels the healing power of Fox's song. In a 1984 study done by Roger Ulrich, he examined the healing properties of bird song in real life. Ulrich's research done between 1972 and 1981 took place in a hospital in which US state. The options were A, Massachusetts, B, Pennsylvania, C, Texas D, Washington. The correct answer was my home state Pennsylvania. And only 30% of people with the correct answer say they didn't look it up. Those answers were submitted by Aberforce, Magical Goat in Adventure, Connolly, Ryan, Troy, Mullet, Moran, Quigley and Lynch Eden the Muggleborn established 2012 Ivy the Ghost of Fox singing softly through the corridors of Hogwarts and the wily Warlock once again. And here for our final chapter discussion is the last quizzit question of this era. With an in person attendance of only 2,000 people, what funeral took place in the UK during the 90s and whose television audience is estimated to be 2.5 billion? Submit your answer to us on the Quizzage forum for one last time for good Measure. That'[e-mail] Quizzage Sam, thank you so much for joining us.

[Andrew]

Today and thank you for your [e-mail]

[Sam]

mugglecast yeah, thanks for having me. This was a lot of fun.

[Andrew]

Yeah, we'll see you at a future Slug Club hangout. I'm sure you're always at the Slug Club hangouts too. All right, well, thanks everybody for listening. I'm Andrew.

[Eric]

I'm Eric.

[Micah]

I'm Micah.

[Laura]

I'm Laura.

[Sam]

I'm Sam.

[Andrew]

Bye everyone.

[Laura]

Bye y'.

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[Sam]

Bye.

[Eric]

Bye.

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