Severus, Please... Order Fries (HBP Chapter 27, 'The Lightning Struck Tower')

Summary

MuggleCast Episode Summary – "Severus, Please... Order Fries" (Half-Blood Prince, Chapter 27: 'The Lightning Struck Tower')

Episode Date: June 3, 2026
Podcast: MuggleCast – The Harry Potter Re-Read Podcast
Host Panel: Andrew, Eric, Micah, Laura
Chapter in Focus: Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, Chapter 27 – "The Lightning-Struck Tower"

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into one of the most pivotal and emotionally charged chapters in the Harry Potter series: the death of Albus Dumbledore atop the Astronomy Tower in Half-Blood Prince. The hosts examine Draco Malfoy's character arc and moral struggle, the masterstrokes and missteps of Albus Dumbledore, the symbolism of the Lightning-Struck Tower, and the chess-like precision—or chaos—of Dumbledore's death plan. The panel also explores the ramifications of these events for the saga's major players, engaging in thoughtful speculation, literary analysis, and trademark MuggleCast banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Draco Malfoy’s Moment of Truth

• Theme: Chapter 27 is a defining Draco chapter—the culmination of his "character development book."
• Laura: “He gets there and he can’t do it, despite the fact that killing Dumbledore...is what’s going to keep he and his family alive. And even then, he still can't do it.” (07:00)
• Eric likens Draco’s struggle to universal moments of reckoning: “There are moments in all of our lives where, you know, the rubber meets the road.” (07:32)
• Draco’s Motivation: He’s driven by a need to prove himself and impress his parents, but ultimately can’t commit murder.
• Andrew: “His heart is just not in it...reading it now, it feels like Draco is almost blaming Dumbledore for...this situation.” (07:38)
• Dumbledore’s Response: Surprising kindness, even as Draco threatens him. Laura points out how this “makes it so much harder for him that Dumbledore is being nice to him.” (08:33)

2. The Real Motive for Draco’s Task

• Micah: “It was never about him killing Dumbledore. Voldemort knew that the likelihood of this happening was so low. This was all about damaging Draco psychologically.” (11:31)
• The hosts concur that Voldemort's assignment is more about punishing Lucius via Draco’s psychological torment than real assassination.

3. Dumbledore’s Knowledge and Missteps

• Dumbledore’s tendency to let Draco rant—then reveal he'd known all along—emphasized his composure and control, but the hosts question his infallibility.
  • Eric: “There were some moments...still questionable how dangerous...Dumbledore is.” (13:11)
  • Laura critiques Dumbledore’s dismissiveness of Harry’s suspicions: “He misses critical information that actually ends up endangering the students of his school, which is what he says he'll never do.” (15:06)
• Vanishing Cabinet oversight: Missed follow-up investigations are a recurring Hogwarts failing; as Eric says: “The vanishing cabinet went right under Dumbledore’s twice-broken nose.” (16:15)

4. The Lightning-Struck Tower: Symbolism & Fate

• Micah discusses the Tarot card and symbolism: “It suggests that something tall, noble, and powerful is being suddenly destroyed by forces beyond its control...This tower reflects Dumbledore himself.” (21:49)
• Aftermath for Hogwarts: “Once Dumbledore falls, Hogwarts stops being...a safe place...it’s about to be real bad.” (22:40)

5. Draco’s Imitation and Infatuation with the ‘Good Side’

• Laura observes Draco appropriates DA’s coin communication (from Order of the Phoenix), despite claiming anti-Muggleborn beliefs. “He continues to lean on the expertise of people that he thinks are lesser than him.” (27:56)
• Andrew suggests this is “almost foreshadowing that he is going to end up on the good side. His heart is in the good side.” (26:34)
• Micah: “It’s all another reminder...the other side can do magic too.” (29:34)

6. The Reality of Draco’s Choices

• Draco finally breaks, feeling he has “no other options.” (30:26)
• Laura: “Dumbledore says Voldemort’s name and Malfoy winces. He can’t even bear to hear it.” (30:50)
• When did Draco’s doubts begin? The panel agrees very early—even “day one” (31:46).

7. What If?—Alternate Realities and Dumbledore’s Death

• Laura poses “what if Draco had taken Dumbledore up on his offer for protection?” Consensus: The plan, Snape’s Unbreakable Vow, and even the Elder Wand’s allegiance would’ve complicated or doomed any alternative. (38:30)
• Did Dumbledore want a large audience for his death? The hosts believe not, but Eric notes the Death Eaters’ presence makes Snape’s loyalty to Voldemort believable. (39:54)
• Faking Dumbledore’s death or alternative plans would undermine key plot threads: Harry’s development, the Elder Wand, and Snape’s position. (42:51)

8. Odds and Ends & Fan Speculations

• Astronomy Tower Recurrence: Multiple book references to falling/jumping from the tower—ironically foreshadowing Dumbledore’s fate.
  • Examples: Fred and George joke about falling (47:13), Draco’s ominous comment about preferring to “pitch myself off the Astronomy Tower” (47:27), Dobby pledging to do the same if he fails Harry (47:31).
• Patreon ‘Links Line’ Question (Dumbledore’s words to Snape in the afterlife):
  • Andrew: “You foolish vampire, if you had let me complete my sentence, I was going to say, Severus, please order me a double cheeseburger without fries.” (48:40)
  • Patreon listeners offer their own witty suggestions (49:21–50:54).
• Quizzage: Running gags and trivia relating to past and this week’s chapter (52:22).

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Draco’s Dilemma:
  • “You gotta bleep or get off the pot.” – Laura (07:32; friendly banter)
• On Dumbledore’s Last Act:
  • “One of the most devastating details is that Dumbledore’s last great act is trying to save Draco, not himself.” – Micah (35:49)
• On Dumbledore’s Authority:
  • “Dumbledore is only in danger because he wanted himself to be in danger, essentially, like, ever the chess master.” – Laura (21:07)
• On Fan Frustration with Dumbledore’s Plans:
  • “If you’re here to complain about the plan, please take a number; Sirius Black has been waiting for months.” – Micah, imagined Dumbledore in the afterlife (49:00)
• On Repeated Tower References:
  • “Harry was so surprised Dobby wasn’t sleeping when he said, ‘I want you to follow him around the clock.’ That’s pretty straightforward.” – Laura (48:01)
• On Dumbledore’s Plea:
  • “I would have loved to have seen how Dumbledore would have protected the Malfoys. That is something I wish we got to see play out, but oh well.” – Andrew (37:30)

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Important Timestamps

• [06:04]–[12:20]: Draco’s internal struggle and Dumbledore’s compassion
• [13:11]–[17:39]: Dumbledore’s strengths and failings; Vanishing Cabinet oversight
• [21:48]–[22:56]: Symbolism of the Lightning-Struck Tower and Hogwarts’ loss of innocence
• [26:34]–[30:26]: Draco’s appropriation of DA methods and his moral ambiguity
• [31:21]–[35:49]: When did Draco begin to doubt, and would he have accepted help?
• [38:30]–[44:15]: The mechanics and implications of Dumbledore's “plan,” including alternate outcomes and the Elder Wand’s allegiance
• [47:13]–[48:01]: Astronomy Tower references throughout the series
• [48:40]–[50:54]: Listener and host responses to Patreon Q on Dumbledore meeting Snape in the afterlife

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Overall Tone and Takeaways

The discussion is thoughtful, empathetic, and laced with signature MuggleCast wit. The hosts balance literary insight (exploring trauma, motivation, and destiny) with humor and Potter fandom nostalgia—making this episode both engaging for devoted fans and accessible to newcomers or casual readers. Their in-depth unpacking of Draco and Dumbledore’s fateful confrontation brings new nuance to one of the series’ most tragic and significant moments.

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For listeners who want to dig deeper:

• The full transcript, additional resources, Patreon links, and social media can be found at mugglecast.com.
• Next episode: Half-Blood Prince, Chapter 28 – "Flight of the Prince"

Transcript

[Andrew]

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[Laura]

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[Micah]

He recognizes the gravity of the moment.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Yeah. Well, the gravity is about to recognize him too. Ooh.

[Andrew]

Yikes.

[Laura]

Aw.

[Andrew]

Welcome to Mugglecast, your ride into the world of Harry. Hello, I'm Andrew.

[Eric]

I'm Eric.

[Micah]

I'm Micah.

[Laura]

And I'm Laura.

[Andrew]

And we're your Harry Potter friends, gathering to talk about the books and the movies and the TV show. So follow us in your podcast app and you'll never miss an episode. New episodes are released every Wednesday and this week it's time for me to remind Universal of my amazing ride idea for them because we're discussing chapter 27 of Half Blood, the lightning struck tower.

[Eric]

Why not just keep pushing it? They need to do it.

[Andrew]

I'm not quitting. Well, what, Bringing this up until it happens here.

[Micah]

Did you first introduce this idea?

[Andrew]

I don't know. Was it the last? Chapter by chapter? We'll have to check the transcripts. Justin. Justin,

[Eric]

listen. We could just. We could just.

[Andrew]

We're here anymore. It's so sad.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Laura]

Why do you think he stopped showing up? Because he's tired of playing.

[Eric]

You kept asking him to do admin stuff during recording while you look that up.

[Andrew]

Listeners, if you love Mugglecast as much as Fenrir Grayback loves visiting Hogwarts, head over to patreon.com mugglecast and support us today. And to thank you for your support, you'll receive bonus episodes of the show ad free episodes. You get to hang out with us every month on Zoom, and we'll give you an on air shout out. We can't do this without you. So thank you so much for your support. And thank you to recent patrons, including Dookie Shoes, Chris Kim, Stephen, Moesha, Kelly and Natalia.

[Eric]

I have an answer for you, Andrew. It was actually Mugglecast. This is far earlier than we ever thought. MogoCast177 was the first time. It was in conversation with Mikey B. And Matt and Laura. And it was. I mean, I could read the transcript, but yeah, it's in. It's in 177. You guys were discussing theme park ride ideas. And this is for July 31, 2009. So for 17 years, we have thought that this ride should be a thing,

[Andrew]

and they've built like two more Harry Potter parks since that time and they have yet to use this idea. The episode is also titled the Astronomy Tower of Terror.

[Eric]

Oh, well, there you go.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Eric]

So we like opening that up.

[Andrew]

Well, listeners, we'd also appreciate if you left us a review in your favorite podcast app or told a fellow Muggle about our show. And you can visit mugglecastmerch.com to buy official show gear like a choo choo shirt or a security nightmare hat. Also, at mugglecastmerch.com you'll find a link to the Overstock store where you can buy some of our Patreon gear from years past. All right, time for chapter by chapter. And as we all know, we're discussing Half blood prince chapter 27, the lightning struck Tower.

[Eric]

We last discussed this on episode 419, Snape loves Dumbledore. That one was called for June 3rd of 2019. Aww. And here's the clip. What you're looking at are memories.

[Andrew]

This is the most important memory I've collected.

[Laura]

It is from Mugglekast episode 419.

[Andrew]

Have you ever wondered if, because his heart not being in it, if Draco were to cast a spell, if it would work? Like, I remember back in book four when Fake Moody is like, all of you could say this at me right

[Micah]

now, and I would maybe get a nosebleed.

[Andrew]

Like, I wonder if his heart not being in it, if that. If he were to actually say the spell, if it would even do anything. Yeah, it's a good.

[Laura]

That's a really good point.

[Andrew]

It would have been like an off green spell and it would have only gone like 2ft.

[Eric]

Confetti would have come out of it.

[Laura]

Yeah, maybe it would have, like, knocked Dumbledore over, but not, you know, blasted him off the tower. Right. This memory is everything.

[Andrew]

I wasn't expecting to hear my boyfriend,

[Laura]

so I kind of wanna. I picked out two larger themes for us to focus on. First being how Half Blood Prince is really the Draco character development book in this series. This is really the point where he reaches that precipice of, like, he's finally getting to do or achieve the thing that he always claimed and boasted with such great bravado about wanting to do. And he gets there and he can't do it, despite the fact that killing Dumbledore will not only seal his oath of loyalty to Voldemort, which, again, you would think this is something he always wanted, but it's what's going to keep he and his family alive. And even then, he still can't do it.

[Eric]

Yeah, you never really. I guess you learn a lot about yourself when you have this type of moment. Right. And unfortunately, there's no amount of prep or. No, you really don't. You really don't know that much about yourself until you have a moment like this. And I'm sure none of us have ever been in a position where we've been told to kill somebody and a lot rides on it. But similarly, I think there are moments in all of our lives where, you know, you kind of gotta. The. The. The feet hit the pavement.

[Andrew]

Yeah. The rubber meets the road.

[Laura]

Right.

[Eric]

The rubber meets the road.

[Laura]

You know, you gotta. You gotta bleep or get off the pot.

[Eric]

Get off the.

[Laura]

Yep.

[Andrew]

But yeah, his heart is just not in it. And reading it now, it feels like Draco is almost blaming Dumbledore for, like, getting into this situation. Like, he almost. He wants to Say this is your fault. I'm in this position.

[Eric]

And how unique or unexpected, but also, like, very important and crucial it is that Draco is met with kindness right from Dumbledore. That this is Dumbledore's last hour of his life. And he, you know, everyone's on the same page about what's about to happen, kind of. But rather than being angry, Dumbledore at moments praises him. Like, confuses the hell out of Harry. But, like, is an open shoulder to cry on almost for Draco.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Laura]

Yeah. Well. And I think Draco resents him for it. Right?

[Eric]

Because at first. Yeah, at first. Yeah.

[Laura]

Because ultimately, to the point, Andrew, that you were bringing up earlier, Draco wants. I think he wants to want to do this. And it makes it so much harder for him that Dumbledore is being nice to him. And not only being nice and cordial and still treating him with respect, but literally saying, like, hey, I know you want to kill me, but actually, I'll help you.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Micah]

Yeah.

[Laura]

And I think it just. You see Draco really start to unravel throughout this. This is something. Actually, we had talked about this on a recent episode, but listening to the audiobooks really drives Draco's experience home for me as a reader. Because, of course, you can imagine it in your head as you're reading it, but hearing the voice actor literally struggling to say some of these things, I think drives it home for sure. And something that stuck out to me thematically about this whole exchange between Draco and Dumbledore is that Draco is seeking Dumbledore's praise throughout the exchange. Like, see how clever I am that I did this? Nobody thought I could do it on my own, but I did it. And everyone thought that Voldemort was handing me a suicide mission, but I did it. I figured it out, and I got you here now, and I'm gonna kill you. Except I'm not going to. Except I did.

[Eric]

Except there's some things went wrong. Like, I didn't really want Fenrir here. He kind of showed up on his own. And all these other little cracks in the facade where it's like, if you have to say how smart you are, you're not that way. If you have to say what a big, big, strong man you are, you're not that strong man. But this is where. I Mean, Draco's upbringing, his entire upbringing, like, how many times did he hear his dad, Lucius Malfoy, talk about how soft and awful Dumbledore is? And, you know, Draco, I think this Whole year has been really wanting to live up to his father's disdain for the man, too. And like, oh, I've been tasked with killing this guy that my father thinks is, you know, absolutely awful for the school. And as he gets closer to it and as he, as he bungles it, you know, he kind of realizes that that's not for him. And, and, and rightly, even though, even though Dumbledore is kind to Draco, there are a few moments where he's like, well, if you were going to kill me, you probably already would have done that. And I see that you kind of want some buddies here. You know, let's just talk this through because you're clearly not ready to do the thing. And so I feel like it's important to kind of challenge how Draco. It just completely upends how Draco thought this conversation was going to go. And I think it reveals the, the underbelly, the undercurrent of Draco really can't and doesn't want to do this.

[Micah]

It's. To me, though, it was never about him killing Dumbledore. Voldemort knew that the likelihood of this happening was so low. Yeah, this was all about damaging Draco psychologically. Voldemort puts him through this torment all year long. The stress, the pressure. Him constantly worrying about what would happen to his family. And I don't think that even if the moment were to arise that Dumbledore would allow Draco to kill him, if he had ever sensed for a moment that he was about to use the killing curse, Dumbledore would have acted with wandless magic. I don't think he would have allowed that guilt to be on Draco's conscience for eternity.

[Laura]

I agree. Yeah. And I would add, too, to your point, Micah. Like, I think Voldemort doing this, it's all about punishing Lucius for what happened last year. Yeah.

[Andrew]

Something I like, too, when Dumbledore and Draco are talking, is that Dumbledore does let Draco go off, you know, and brag, as we were just talking about. But then the tables do turn and Dumbledore says, yeah, I knew this whole plan. And. And then he even offers him an olive branch that he'll, Dumbledore says will protect your family, and Draco just has none of it. But it, it was just a good reminder of how masterful of a wizard Dumbledore is to just sit there and let Draco go off and then be like, you know what? I actually knew all of this and I'm the one in Control here. You are not. And also you're not going to kill me, bitch.

[Eric]

Well, there were a few things, right, that Dumbledore didn't know or didn't spot sooner. The Rose Meredith one is big for me. The Madame Rose Merida, because like Dumbledore has actually actively interacted with Rose Merida throughout the whole year and especially when he was, when they were going to Hogsmeade to go off to the cave and, and now back. It really wasn't until this conversation with Draco where it's confirmed that Draco put Madame Rosmerda under the imperious curse. Drago didn't or Dumbledore didn't spot it. And that to me shows that he's not infallible. Dumbledore is great in this chapter, but there were some moments where it's still questionable how dangerous like Dumbledore is. And when he offers to protect Draco, he's like, we can hide you and your family more completely than, than anyone. And I'm, I, I almost wanted somebody on that tower to be like, really like you hid Lillian James because his track record is really not perfect. So I appreciate the offer here, but it's, it's interesting because we already know that, that no side is perfect. And it's possible that if Draco had taken Dumbledore up on this and Dumbledore did not die in this chapter, that the Malfoys, something could have gone wrong, I guess, with the Malfoys. Because Dumbledore isn't perfect.

[Laura]

Yeah, for sure. And to that point, you know, I agree that Dumbledore obviously has known about Draco's mission at a high level. But clearly the Rose Merda example highlights for us that he didn't have a lot of like, on the ground knowledge of what was going on. And that's partly because Snape couldn't get Draco to open up about any of it. But I wanted to ask about the vanishing Cabinet, if Dumbledore.

[Eric]

What about it?

[Laura]

Yeah, I mean, if Dumbledore figured out that the necklace and the poison mead were part of Draco's plan. It does feel like a miss to me that he didn't have any interest in what Harry was trying to bring to him about Draco celebrating in the Room of Requirement. Yeah, you know, I feel like this is an area where Dumbledore misses. Right. Because he's so hyper focused on making sure that Harry only knows what Harry needs to know, that he misses critical information that actually ends up endangering the students of his school, which is what he says he'll never do. Right, yeah.

[Eric]

He takes a barrage with Harry's going like don't for a minute suggest I don't take the security of the students very seriously, Harry. But then these students are going around getting poisoned and nearly killed.

[Andrew]

And Dumbledore admits that it'd be impossible to get Death Eaters into the school. So he thought, yeah, yeah he can. You know, it's not even that Dumbledore knew and was letting it happen. He truly did not know that this was happening. So it seems.

[Eric]

Yeah. But listening to Harry would have, would have probably helped. Listening, you know, following the clues would have helped. I also think that the, the entire wizarding world or at least the administration at Hogwarts really needs to do better follow up inspections or investigations after any incident. Because if you think about it like going way back to Micah's mug of Sirius Black, you know, Sirius Black getting arrested, you know, for a crime that he really didn't do. He ended up not being the Potter's Secret Keeper at the end. And so a little bit of follow up conversation probably would have prevented him from rotting away in Azkaban for 12 years. A lot closer to the events of this chapter if they had followed up on Montague getting caught in the vanishing Cabinet last year. Whether Snape did an investigation, I think Snape would have been able to identify the danger of having that vanishing Cabinet even in partial working order. The fact that that is an unchecked passage and can maybe be mended. That should have been flagged either by Snape, the head of house whose student was disappeared in that thing for months, or by Dumbledore, the headmaster who's overseeing. And you know, you should have more papers on his desk about what happened with that one student who was gone for a few months because I have to answer to their parents. Apparently no investigation was done and so the vanishing Cabinet went right under Dumbledore's twice broken nose.

[Micah]

Yeah, I don't see a situation where Dumbledore would have knowingly allowed Death Eaters into Hogwarts. And so if he was in fact aware of the vanishing Cabinet, I do believe that he would have done something about it. Now that being said, I don't think he did his due diligence throughout the course of the year and he should have paid much closer attention to where Draco was disappearing to because was common knowledge at this point. Right. And Harry brought it up directly to him. So that's really where I feel like Dumbledore could have done a better job. But if we need evidence that he didn't know about this just look at the conversation between him and Fenrir Greyback at the end of this chapter. There is no Death Eater. I think that he would like less to be inside of Hogwarts than Fenrir Greyback. The others are probably easily manageable but Fenrir has a thirst for children's blood,

[Eric]

which is a loose cannon.

[Micah]

Disgusting.

[Eric]

One thing I had a question about regarding this chapter. In general, we always asked this question, do we remember back to when we were first reading it when whether we were, like, worried for Dumbledore or worried for Draco? Like, Dumbledore says to Draco, I'm more helpless than you ever could have dreamed of finding me. And he's in a really compromising position. So did we get the sense that this was it?

[Laura]

I remember feeling like Dumbledore was probably gonna die when we left for the cave. Like, when we departed Hogwarts to go to the cave, I was like, okay. Like, he's already not doing well and whatever is coming here is probably gonna take it out of him. And I think just from a narrative perspective, it made sense.

[Andrew]

From a storytelling perspective, there's always these types of scenes. Like, you know, I think I mentioned this a few weeks ago. Harry and Dumbledore getting one last journey together like that alone on his face is a sign that something is about to go very wrong or right for Dumbledore.

[Eric]

Right.

[Andrew]

In that it's all part of the plan. But I think, yeah, I think as a reader reading this chapter in particular when Dumbledore is urgently needing Snape and the Dark Mark is in the sky and Albus instructs Harry to talk to no one else but Snape, like things were getting really real.

[Micah]

I agree. I don't think any of us felt like Dumbledore was going to make it through all seven books. So there had to be a moment. And this one seemed the most likely. Though I do remember feeling very much that Dumbledore was in control the entire time. Especially when you look at the fact that he immobilizes Harry. And that in and of itself tells me that he had enough magic to do whatever he wanted to do in that moment.

[Eric]

That's a great point.

[Micah]

Those four Death Eaters that were on the Astronomy Tower with him were not much of a threat. And we'll get to it. But that's what always made me think that there was more to this than at the Eye.

[Laura]

Yeah, I agree. I like the idea that Dumbledore was only in danger because he wanted himself to be in danger, essentially, like ever the chess master.

[Micah]

Yeah. And I forget the exact line, but he says as much to Draco when Draco says something about it's like being at his mercy and he's like, no, dear boy, basically you're at my mercy here.

[Laura]

Yeah. And he's so right because he's literally saving Draco's soul in this moment. I mean, that is the end goal here. Before we move on, Micah, I know you put some notes in here about the symbolism of the lightning struck tower. Did you want to cover that for us?

[Andrew]

Sure.

[Micah]

And I know we did talk about the tarot card of the lightning struck tower, but there is a lot of symbolism, Right. Surrounding the lightning struck tower. In particular, it suggests that something tall, noble and powerful is being suddenly destroyed by forces beyond its control. And I think that this tower reflects Dumbledore himself. He's elevated above everybody else. He's the symbol of wisdom and protection that is struck down in a single catastrophic moment. And there's also a tie to Harry's scar because Harry's scar is in the shape of a lightning bolt. And this is really about the final collapse of Harry's protected school. Life gets real after this.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Micah]

And once Dumbledore falls, Hogwarts stops being. Well, I'll put a safe place in quotation marks because it's not really been safe for the last five and a

[Eric]

half years, but it's about to be real bad.

[Micah]

Yeah. I mean, it becomes part of the war. Right. We, we see that as the rest of this book plays itself out. And then of course, in Deathly Hallows.

[Eric]

Yeah. Two of the Death Eaters here on this tower are going to be teachers next year. Great.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

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[Micah]

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[Laura]

Well, moving on with Draco, I just I found this whole exchange so interesting because the things that Draco chooses to highlight to Dumbledore in this exchange, I don't feel like it's just happenstance. I think that this all really reflects the way that Draco truly feels. And something I thought was interesting was how he told Dumbledore about the inspiration that he got for having Rosemerta use coins to communicate with him. And he specifically calls out that he got the idea from Dumbledore's army and how they communicate communicated with coins last year in Order of the Phoenix. However, we know from Hermione she got that idea from the Death Eaters in their tattoos. We also know at this point Draco has been inducted, so he knows what the tattoos are, he knows how they function, and yet he he chooses to say that his inspiration for this method of communication came from people that he allegedly hates.

[Andrew]

So two things here. It's almost like foreshadowing that he is going to end up on the good side. His heart is in the good side.

[Eric]

Oh God.

[Andrew]

But on the other hand I do think if I'm playing devil's advocate here, he actually wanted to say, guess what? I brought these Death Eaters in because of Hermione. Kind of it's her fault as almost the implication.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Cause the Dumbledore's army coins or whatever were still, I want to say like the problem with the tattoos is they're a one way form of communication. The, the coins are a little bit different because couldn't like she set the meeting time. I mean it's still a one way form of communication. But I think that Draco very most recently was part of the Inquisitorial squad. And so he was probably painstakingly searching for how Dumbledore's army was kind of coordinating and when he eventually found it, when they eventually all got found out, that left a lasting impression on him. And so he thinks of the more recent use, I guess of that. Was it a Protean charm? But also what I like about it is it shows that he was probably as obsessed with figuring out how Dumbledore's army worked the previous year as Harry was with figuring out what he was up to this year. Possibly.

[Laura]

No, totally. Draco was absolutely obsessed with Harry in Order of the Phoenix. And we get to see, I mean that metaphorical coin flipped if you will here. So it is really interesting to see how these two are mirrors of each other between these two books. But again, I just kiss already and trust me, there are many, many fan fictions where they do. But it is just interesting to me that for someone who has espoused these particular ideologies over the last several books, that he continues to lean on the expertise of people that he thinks are lesser than him because he can't help but observe that they still have kind of good ideas that he wants to use. He does the same thing when talking about Hermione a little later. He says that he overheard Hermione talking to Harry and Ron in the library about how Filch wouldn't be able to recognize poisons. And that's good enough for Draco to work out his plan for how he's going to get the poisoned mead to Hogwarts. Right. So does he think that she's got dirty blood and that he's better than her because of the way he was raised? Yes. But at the same time he's perfectly willing to accept her word here in order to put together this plan that is a life or death plan for him. So I just find that really, really interesting.

[Micah]

It's all another reminder of that line from the first chapter of this book, that the other side can do magic too.

[Laura]

Yep.

[Micah]

And I think in particular with the communication that he has with Rosemerta, it's almost a means of perverting or tainting the da. Communication.

[Laura]

Absolutely.

[Micah]

And as you were alluding to as well, Laura, the, the way that he more or less puts this on Hermione, again, it's, it's putting the blame somewhere else. Well, I just overheard the fact that Filch wouldn't check potions. Well, thanks, Hermione. Yeah, I, I think it's a way of, of almost like putting a. A blemish on what was used last year for something that was very good.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Laura]

Well, in this exchange, of course we know Draco finally cracks and just proclaims that he has no other options because Dumbledore starts trying to talk to him about his options and Draco's like, what the hell are you talking about, man? I don't have any other options. I have to do this or else

[Andrew]

either I die or you die.

[Laura]

Yeah, exactly.

[Andrew]

Either both of us die or you just die are basically the options.

[Laura]

But what I also found interesting here is Dumbledore says Voldemort's name and Malfoy winces.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Laura]

When he says the name, he can't even bear to hear it. So I wanted to ask this group, because I don't know that there's not an official point that we know of in the text for us to know this, but when do we think that Draco first began having doubts about this whole Pipeline to Death Eater situation that he has found himself on?

[Andrew]

Doubts that he can kill Dumbledore?

[Laura]

Just doubts about wanting to be part of this.

[Eric]

I think in the beginning he probably wanted to avenge his dad's imprisonment. These were the people that he was raised to hate. So he had some hate. I bet he. There was probably like a day or two where he thought, oh, this is an easy job. This is going to be great.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Eric]

And then he realized, no, no, actually,

[Micah]

I'm gonna go with day one. I, I think that there's perhaps, I agree, some initial feeling of being the big man on campus. Right. I've been tasked with this really big responsibility to off Dumbledore. But this going back to what I said earlier, Voldemort's task is really about punishment. It's, it's not about honor in any way. He's basically said, fix your family's mistake or else.

[Eric]

Yeah, yeah. And it was apparent even to, like, Narcissa and to Snape in Spinner's end at the beginning of the year that this task was setting Draco up to fail. That was what. In fact, that alone is what made Draco's mom come seek Snape in the first place. It's very clearly a suicide mission. So if Draco himself couldn't see that on day one, he at least did very shortly after that. This is actually a really tall task. This is Dumbledore we're talking about here. An interesting point I want to bring up from our discord regarding the just the overall conversation between Dumbledore and Draco is a really, really excellent point from Becky who says I feel like Dumbledore is pointing out the flaws in what Draco thinks he values most being the best achievement, upholding pure blood supremacy. And Dumbledore's helping him recognize what's really most important to him underneath that all such as loyalty and to protection for his family. I really like this point because what Dumbledore is offering is what Draco is not asking for.

[Laura]

Yeah, but I'm sure it seems a little tempting and we're going to talk about that a little bit later in the discussion, but kind of to bring this part of the discussion to a close, just looking at Draco's journey here and his realization that he's flown a little too close to the sun, as it were, do we think if we're thinking about where Draco is at this point, obviously we know we get more character development next book. We obviously know there's Cursed Child where we actually see Draco teaming up with the trio, if you accept that as canon. But at this point, you know, Draco ultimately can't bring himself to kill Dumbledore. It's very clear from the flimsy attempts that he's made earlier in the book that he wants to be able to. He wants Dumbledore to die, but it's like he doesn't have the stomach to actually be the one who does it or be present when it happens. So do we think that if we remove Draco from this mission, he would still be gung ho pro Dumbledore death? Just as long as it's like a newspaper headline he gets to read.

[Andrew]

Certainly outwardly, yeah.

[Eric]

And without this, without the Catalyst, without it being him who's tasked with this mission, I bet that he wouldn't even have the self awareness to realize that this isn't in him. It's the fact that he's tasked with this and can't do it that makes Draco realize that he doesn't actually want what he thought he, he wants. But if he's not tasked with this and Dumbledore just dies, Draco probably looks at that headline in the Daily Prophet and goes, good, yeah, maybe Hogwarts will improve. And I think he means it.

[Andrew]

He might mean it now, but as he gets older, he'll probably be like, oh, wait, no, he, he shouldn't have died. What do you think, Micah?

[Micah]

Well, it, it, it makes me think about Dumbledore's plea to him, which we talked a little bit about earlier, about protecting him and Narcissa and Lucius. And I think this would be appealing to Draco under normal circumstances, but we'll never know because there was a bit of an interruption. Right. Just as Dumbledore is putting this all on the table for him, the Death Eaters break through. And I think one of the most devastating details is that Dumbledore's last great act is trying to save Draco, not himself. Right?

[Andrew]

This is why we love him. Where are my glasses?

[Eric]

Oh, man.

[Micah]

It, it's true, though. And if you think about it, because again, Harry's immobilized. Dumbledore's using magic in this moment. So even without his wand, Dumbledore is clearly capable of protecting Harry and I am sure protecting himself. So these Death Eaters would have been no contest for Dumbledore if he really wanted to step in and do something here. But he recognizes the gravity of the moment.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Yeah, well, the gravity is about to recognize him too.

[Andrew]

Ooh, yikes, I love that.

[Eric]

But I mean, how easy would it be, to your point, Micah? Of like, just like, okay, this is the books, it's not the movies. Death Eaters can't fly. No one can fly. It would be very easy for Dumbledore to just push them all off the tower, like with force, you know, they wouldn't be able to fix it. And in immobilizing Harry, not only does Dumbledore demonstrate that he has magic, which is what you're pointing, like he has command of his faculties and stuff, but he's refusing the help of an ally who would absolutely fight to the death for him. Harry would absolutely do everything in Harry's power to not let this happen. And so Dumbledore is clearly in control of everything because otherwise, if he didn't, in fact, if he wasn't in fact prepared to die in this moment, he would be seeking all the help he could get. He would call up Fox. However that works, he would allow Harry to fight, you know, but, but no, this is how this has to happen. Ever the Chess Grandmaster that he is.

[Laura]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andrew]

The olive branch that he does offer Draco to protect his family is so heartbreaking to read. And I. But I would have loved to have seen that plan go into place. I would have loved to have seen how Dumbledore would have protected the Malfoys. That's. Yeah, that is something I wish we got to see play out, but. Oh, well.

[Laura]

Yeah, well, to that point. And we can jump a little bit ahead because this was something that I wanted to ask about. I. Basically, the second part of this discussion is titled All According to Plan, question mark. Like, is this exactly how Dumbledore intended for this whole series of events to play out? And one of the questions I have is, like, what if Draco had taken Dumbledore up on his offer for protection? How could Dumbledore have protected Draco and put he and his family into hiding without, one, exposing Snape to Voldemort and two, getting Snape killed because of the Unbreakable Vow that he had made?

[Eric]

Yeah. How do you prevent that?

[Laura]

Yeah. Like, I think he still has to die. Like, I think in order for all of this to work, Dumbledore still has to die one way or another.

[Eric]

Yeah. And there's the curse, too, from destroying the Horcrux. The ring that was limited to his arm but presumably is getting worse and growing and will eventually claim Dumbledore's life.

[Micah]

He just needs to go to Voldemort. Voldemort gives out extra hands like nobody's business.

[Eric]

Oh, that's true, that's true, that's true.

[Laura]

Here's a hand and let me show you how to make a backup of your soul. You'll be fine.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Laura]

But I did want to ask, do we think Dumbledore intended for such a large audience to witness his death? I mean, certainly Snape and Draco needed to be there, but do we think Dumbledore wanted Harry and three other Death Eaters to be present?

[Andrew]

I don't think so, because this whole Death Eaters came into the school thing caught him off guard. So I think. I hate to say he wanted Harry to be there because that's like a traumatic thing to witness, but it seemed like it was a likely possibility given they were just together and Harry's been helping Dumbledore get back to the school and all that, but, no, not the Death Eater, certainly. I mean, that's kind of humiliating, I think, to give the Death Eaters the pleasure of. Of watching Dumbledore die. That ain't good.

[Eric]

I agree. It's not good. I Also agree he probably didn't plan for it, but I gotta say, the amount of people on this tower right now is almost exactly right. Because you need somebody that's not Snape or Draco to report to Voldemort what happened between Snape and Draco and Dumbledore. Right. So the fact that the Karrows and Fenrir witness Snape stepping up and killing Dumbledore really sets up everything Snape has to do with the rest of the book.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Eric]

And the rest of the book series. Yeah.

[Micah]

There's a fourth Death Eater there. Yeah.

[Eric]

Oh, Yaxley. I'm sorry, that was blatant Yaxley. Originally.

[Micah]

He's not named, but I think Harry recognizes him in Deathly Hallows as having been on the tower.

[Eric]

Yeah, I appreciate that.

[Laura]

Well. And they substitute him out with Bellatrix in the movie. Right. Which actually I. That is one book to screen change that I'm supportive of. I think having Bellatrix there makes a lot of sense.

[Micah]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Cause she seems like. And she was at Spinner's end. They didn't send Yaxley to Spinner's end.

[Laura]

He didn't witness the Unbreakable Vow. Yeah, exactly.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Micah]

I do think there is value in Death Eaters being there because it further legitimizes Snape's allegiance. And you have four Death Eaters who can vouch for the fact that Snape did in fact kill Dumbledore and has a strong allegiance to. To Voldemort. In terms of Harry, though, for Harry it's all about protection. Because, I mean, it could got real bad for him. Right. Like if Death Eaters had not only found Dumbledore in a weakened state, but found Harry right there, ripe for the taking. I think that it would have been. A lot of. It would have been a big problem for Harry.

[Laura]

Yeah. That's why I kind of tend to lean towards the idea that maybe Dumbledore didn't intend for Harry to be there to witness this. I do like how it ultimately works out by like, more strongly legitimizing Snape with the Death Eaters because we see that his fellow Death Eaters don't totally trust him, especially at the start of this book with Bellatrix.

[Micah]

But they're fearful of him. Right. There was that passage in the book that when he comes onto the Astronomy Tower, all the other Death Eaters that are there basically almost take a step back. So some of them must be somewhat fearful of him.

[Laura]

Oh, I think so. But I think part of it too is like they. There are rumors about him and I think this is the point where Snape finally gets the buy in from his fellow Death Eaters. Of like, okay, no, he really is on our side. And he was playing Dumbledore, not us.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Laura]

One last what if. What if Dumbledore had faked his death and gone underground earlier in the book?

[Micah]

The challenge with this, in my mind, there's a couple different pieces of it. Right. Dumbledore has been preparing Harry to lead throughout this entire book. He's been giving him glimpses into Voldemort's past. He's been providing him knowledge about Horcruxes. So Harry is being set up for Deathly Hallows. There's also the allegiance of the Elder Wand. Right. And that changing hands. And now Draco is the master of the Elder Wand. And the last part of it, which we actually talked a little bit about just before, is I think Snape's loyalty to Voldemort can be called into question a lot more easily if he's not the one who murders Dumbledore.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Micah]

So it kind of messes with everything, but it would have been cool if he was secretly alive this whole time.

[Laura]

I'm really glad you brought up the Elder Wand, because I have to think that particular piece was not part of Dumbledore's plan. I don't think he's.

[Andrew]

No.

[Micah]

There's no way.

[Laura]

Yeah. Like, maybe he intended for Snape to become the owner of the Elder Wand. I don't know. But definitely Draco was not part of the plan. But it ends up working out. It all works out.

[Micah]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

And I mean, I think, Matt, I imagine that Voldemort would have seeked proof of Dumbledore's death. And how would that go? What proof would Dumbledore offer? Dumbledore is a smart guy. I guess he could come up with something. But I'd be curious to know. A hand. Like you said, Micah, Voldemort likes handing out hands. So maybe he would like to collect a hand.

[Micah]

Maybe.

[Andrew]

Or his wand.

[Laura]

Yeah, the blackened one from wearing the Resurrection Stone.

[Andrew]

Ew. I don't want this.

[Laura]

Yeah, but that would be proof. Like this.

[Andrew]

Yep, it would be.

[Laura]

He was definitely becoming real decrepit.

[Eric]

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[Laura]

Well, great discussion, y'. All. We're gonna get into some odds and ends here quickly.

[Andrew]

Yeah, well, so like we said at the top of the show, I just wanna remind Universal if you're listening, I'm still waiting for the Wizarding World of Harry Potter. Dumbledore's magical lightning struck Tower of Terror Adventure at Universal's Epic Universe in which you freefall from a tower like you're doing it for the greater good. Let's make it happen in park number four.

[Eric]

It's time. In the year 2027. We are ready for this.

[Andrew]

It's time.

[Micah]

It's time. Well, I also wanted to include a couple of Astronomy Tower references throughout the series, and there's probably some that are missing here, but these are the ones that came to mind. And shout out to Meg for the last one, that which we'll get to in just a second. I can read the first one, but if others want to jump in and read the other two, that would be great. So the first one is from Prisoner of Azkaban. After Harry falls from his broom during a Quidditch match against Hufflepuff, he wakes up in the hospital wing. When Ron mentioned that Harry looks peaky, Fred comments on the 50 foot fall, to which George replies, yeah, come on, Ron, we'll walk you off the Astronomy Tower and see how you come out looking.

[Andrew]

In half Blood Prince Draco says, I might not even be back at Hogwarts next year. I might not even be here. I think I'd rather pitch myself off the Astronomy Tower if I thought I had to continue here for another two years.

[Eric]

I can't believe Draco says that.

[Andrew]

Wow.

[Eric]

And then also in this book, Harry tells Dobby, I want you to tell Draco Malfoy. I want to know where he's going, who he's meeting and what he's doing. I want you to follow him around the clock. Yes, Harry Potter, said Dobby at once, his great eyes shining with excitement, and if Dobby does it wrong, Dobby will throw himself off the Topmost tower. Harry Potter. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So there's some obsession about specifically the topmost tower and the Astronomy tower.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Laura]

It's kind of funny that Harry was so surprised Dobby wasn't sleeping when he said, I want you to follow him around the clock. That's a pretty straightforward, yeah.

[Eric]

What does Harry think that means? Yeah, that's pretty straightforward. That means, don't worry, sleep.

[Micah]

Harry Potter.

[Laura]

Right. All right, well, now we're going to get into our links line. We do this weekly question over on Patreon. You can sign up to participate as well. Patreon.com mugglecast and this week's question is. You're Dumbledore in the afterlife. When Snape gets there a year from now, what's the first thing you say to him? So we're going to go through Host Answers first and then we'll get to Patreon answers.

[Andrew]

I love this question, you foolish vampire. If you had let me complete my sentence, I was going to say, severus, please order me a double cheeseburger without fries.

[Eric]

Lily is here, but so is her husband. Sorry, buddy. No.

[Micah]

For the record, if you're here to complain about the plan, please take a number. Sirius Black has been waiting for months.

[Laura]

And I said, wow. Okay. I said kill me, not blast my corpse off a tower. Rude.

[Andrew]

All right. Over on Patreon, Susan said Petty Dumbledore would say, I believe someone would like a word, and moves aside for Lily.

[Eric]

Zachary makes a Potter puppet Pals reference. Albus says, harry will be joining us soon. And then Snape says that little Insert the Elder swear here.

[Micah]

Carly said, you did it, you son of a bitch. You really did it.

[Eric]

Perfect.

[Laura]

Ben says, severus, Ah, nuts. This whole plan is a total dumpster fire. First, you were supposed to tell Harry to kill himself and the Horcrux once Harry died. Moody was supposed to tell Neville that since you killed me, you're the master of the Elder Wand. So Neville should kill you and use the Elder Wand to kill Voldemort. Neville's actually the boy in the prophecy. When Moody showed up here before you or Harry, I knew this whole thing was screwed. So now who's the master of the Elder Wand? Voldemort. Well, at least you told Harry he has to die. You just left him some memories. Okay, I have one backup plan, but it depends on Lavender Brown. Is she alive?

[Andrew]

I also love how Dumb or Dumbledore would say, ah, nuts.

[Eric]

Not for the first time.

[Andrew]

Shannon said. Good news. The shampoo aisle here is extensive.

[Eric]

It would be in heaven. And Matthew says, you killed me. You actually killed me. I was joking.

[Andrew]

Oh, thanks. Everybody who participated and you know, we should acknowledge it. Dumbledore's dead. That's sad. That's sad.

[Laura]

Dumbledore.

[Eric]

Dumbledore is not dead dot com.

[Andrew]

Dumbom dot com. Oh yeah, a real website. Does that still exist? We looked it up only on the way back.

[Micah]

Dumbledead.com.

[Andrew]

oh, that's sad. Oh no, it's still up.

[Micah]

Redirect it to.

[Eric]

Who's still paying for that?

[Andrew]

Oh, I said I bought. Dumbledore is not gay dot com, I think, didn't I?

[Eric]

Just like, I love the era of. Let's just get a domain name and point it to Harry Potter Fan Zone or to the Mugglecast page.

[Andrew]

Gay Razor. That's not good listeners. If you have any feedback about today's discussion, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo that you record on your phone to mugglecastmail.com youm can also reach out via the YouTube comments below. That's what they the YouTubers do, right? The Spotify comments. I think that might be below.

[Eric]

And then you do the thing with the overlays and the video where we're like, like and subscribe.

[Andrew]

Like and subscribe. Today we probably should do one of those.

[Eric]

Yeah, with that we're going to use that footage.

[Andrew]

You can also slide into our DMs. And next week we'll discuss Chapter 28 of Half Blood Prince, Flight of the Prince. Visit mugglecast.com for links to our social media, our Patreon, our transcripts, our favorite episodes, and lots more. And now it's time for quizzage. It's back.

[Eric]

Yeah, keep your finger on that music button, Andrew, because we got two segments, two quizzes. Segments. The earlier question that we asked was for the seer overheard, what is the more common name of the ailment known as pertussis? Pertussis. The answer is whooping cough. And this is a reference because Draco was making a whoop whoop sound in the room of requirement. 80% of people with the correct answer who submitted to Kwizzitch say they didn't look it up. So that's a more commonly known fact. And the correct answers were submitted by a haunting rendition of his eyes are as green as a fresh pickled toad. A healthy breeze cheese shark who replies, I'm a nurse Draco's apple that was infested with whooping cough. Duddy's overworked therapist, Eden the Muggle is back established 2012. Oh, how ironic. I'm sick right now. Somebody else who replied hospitalized for it when I was 2. That's terrifying. I can't think of anything clever. I play Fluffy's harp. Liam the youngling Patronus Seeker, protect your wand. Rowena Griffin Claw Snuffles Supremacy Teacher of Muggles. The five legged creature in the room of Requirement. The Rogue Bludger. Volda Tort. And somebody whose very fitting reference to Game of Thrones is you know nothing. Gilderoy Lockhart. Here is the second quizzage question. All right. With a span of over 426 mapped miles made of limestone, where is the world's longest known cave system? And this was in reference to the chapter the Cave. The correct answer is Mammoth Caves. It's actually a state park in Kentucky of United States. 30% of people say they didn't look it up. Who got the correct answer and fewer submissions but they were correctly submitted by Duddy's overworked therapist is back. Eden the muggle born established 2012. A healthy breeze. Madeline the muggle established 2014. I love that people are putting their established dates as their usernames now. Voldemort's womb. That was a thing we discussed. Finty Patronus Seeker. I play Fluffy's harp. Voldy Tort, Teacher of Muggles. And somebody who identifies as the Rogue Bludger. Congrats to all of our winners. And here is this upcoming quiz. Its question. In regards to the lightning struck tower chapter. What is the fastest speed speed that a human has ever fallen in free fall? This is a multiple choice question. Is it a, 120 mph, b 300 mph, c 550 mph or d over 800 mph in free fall. And by the way, they survived this. Whatever. The answer is no way. Yep. And it's. And it's on video. Submit your answer to us on the quizzage form located on the mugglecast website. It's got everything good that Andrew was mentioning and check that out. Mogulcast.com quizzage thanks for playing everyone and

[Andrew]

thank you for listening to this week's episode. I'm Andrew.

[Eric]

I'm Eric.

[Micah]

I'm Micah.

[Laura]

And I'm Laura.

[Andrew]

See you next time. Bye bye bye.

[Laura]

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