Does Dumbledore Spy Through Chocolate Frog Cards?! and More Muggle Mail

Summary

MuggleCast: The Harry Potter Podcast
Episode: Does Dumbledore Spy Through Chocolate Frog Cards?! and More Muggle Mail
Release Date: January 28, 2025
Host/Author: Harry Potter

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Introduction and Guest Welcome

In the episode titled “Does Dumbledore Spy Through Chocolate Frog Cards?! and More Muggle Mail”, the MuggleCast hosts—Andrew, Eric, Micah, and Laura—kick off the discussion by welcoming Evelynda, one of their dedicated Slug Club patrons. Evelynda shares her fandom identity, revealing her favorite book as "A Footprint", her favorite movie as "Sorcerer's Stone", and proudly declaring her allegiance to Hufflepuff. She humorously notes her unique Patronus as an aardvark, sparking lighthearted banter among the hosts.

Evelynda [02:26]: "My patronus, oddly enough, is an aardvark."

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Deep Dive: Karkaroff’s True Motivations

The podcast delves into listener feedback, starting with Charlotte’s intriguing theory about Igor Karkaroff from "Goblet of Fire". Charlotte posits that Karkaroff may have deliberately selected less capable students to manipulate the Triwizard Tournament, ensuring Viktor Krum’s victory. This hypothesis leads to a robust discussion among the hosts about Karkaroff's possible ulterior motives and the broader implications for the tournament's integrity.

Charlotte [10:26]: "What if he rigged it? Bring his worst students to ensure Crum was selected."

Evelynda [12:23]: "Do you think that he was kind of using him in a way for his own glory inhibition?"

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Listener Theory: Dumbledore’s Chocolate Frog Cards as Spying Tools

Eden submits a creative theory questioning whether Dumbledore utilizes Chocolate Frog Cards to monitor events in the wizarding world. She suggests that the consciousness within the cards allows Dumbledore to receive updates, such as Harry’s arrival on the Hogwarts Express.

Eden [15:58]: "What if Dumbledore uses this as a way to check up on things?"

The hosts explore the feasibility of this theory, debating whether other individuals could employ their Chocolate Frog Cards similarly. The conversation touches on the magical properties of portraits and other enchanted objects within the series.

Andrew [17:03]: "Does this mean that every other person on a chocolate frog card can also spy on whoever is holding the card?"

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Casting Severus Snape: The Impact of Racial Diversity

Cal raises a pertinent question regarding the casting of Severus Snape in potential adaptations of the series. He expresses concern that portraying Snape as a person of color might alter the perception of his character dynamics, particularly the interactions with Harry and James Potter, and potentially introduce themes of racial bias.

Cal [20:02]: "I just don't want it to be seen as racial bias. Dumbledore, McGonagall, Sirius are characters that racial change wouldn't affect."

Evelynda responds thoughtfully, acknowledging that changing Snape’s race could add depth to his character and provide new layers of interpretation regarding his motivations and relationships.

Evelynda [20:07]: "Changing his race would add like, complexity to his character... It can be something worth exploring."

The hosts agree that incorporating diversity can enrich the narrative, reflecting contemporary cultural contexts and enhancing character development.

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Examining Petunia and Vernon Dursley’s Relationship

Kim’s email probes the tumultuous relationship between Petunia and Vernon Dursley, suggesting that Petunia may be enduring emotional or verbal abuse, leading to her fears and strict enforcement of household norms.

Kim [23:48]: "Vernon comes from bullies, as shown in Aunt March. It took a lot for Petunia to stand up to Vernon."

The discussion reveals the complexity of their domestic dynamics, highlighting Petunia’s possible internal struggles and the facade maintained to conform to Vernon’s expectations. Evelynda emphasizes the need for more context to fully understand their relationship.

Evelynda [25:17]: "I would have to know a little bit more if that makes sense of their relationship dynamic."

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Remus Lupin’s Condition: Symbolism and Interpretation

Vanessa poses a deep question about Remus Lupin’s self-harming behavior during his werewolf transformations, drawing parallels to the struggles faced during the AIDS epidemic. She wonders if these actions could symbolize declining mental health and coping mechanisms.

Vanessa [13:58]: "Could Remus Lupin scratching himself be a representation of declining mental health and self harm?"

Eric and Evelynda explore this interpretation, acknowledging that while Lupin’s actions could be animalistic responses to his condition, they also resonate with themes of emotional pain and societal stigma.

Eric [14:06]: "One reading is a good way to put it because I also do think werewolves, dogs, this is typical animal behavior."

Evelynda [14:54]: "Self harm in a way, not to speak on this lightly... I think there could be some hidden underlying undertones."

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Family Dynamics at Grimmauld Place

Katie’s feedback shifts the focus to the Black family dynamics, questioning why Sirius Black doesn’t reconnect more with his cousin Andromeda or the Tonks family at Grimmauld Place. She speculates that Dumbledore might be isolating Sirius instead of providing support.

Katie [36:28]: “Would Sirius not be allowed to go visit the Tonks family? Are they not a safe house yet?”

The hosts discuss potential reasons for this lack of interaction, considering Sirius’ traumatic past and the possible complexities within the Order of the Phoenix.

Andrew [38:07]: "Maybe Sirius didn't reach out to his favorite aunt because it was there was controversy."

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Listener Feedback: Critiquing Arthur Weasley

Marta shares her perspective on the hosts' previous critique of Arthur Weasley, arguing that the hosts were too harsh and failed to recognize Arthur’s reassuring nature during stressful events.

Marta [42:00]: "I actually reread the chapter and Arthur was giving really assuring, really reassuring vibes."

The hosts engage in a respectful debate, acknowledging Marta’s viewpoint while also defending their initial critique, fostering a balanced conversation about character interpretations.

Micah [45:35]: "It was a perfectly fair question... Harry needs those, his near death experiences to keep his heart pumping."

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Educational System at Hogwarts: Listener Insights

Rachel offers her observations on the Hogwarts education system, noting the lack of interactive teaching methods and corrective instruction. She contrasts this with her experiences in the UK education system, pondering whether Hogwarts’ approach is reflective of traditional British teaching styles.

Rachel [59:49]: "There is no I do, we do, you do. From what we can see, I assume that's a teacher thing."

The discussion highlights the differences between Muggle and magical educational methodologies, considering how Hogwarts’ system impacts student learning and engagement.

Eric [60:31]: "Maybe dry in the wrong hands. Nevertheless... teachers talking at you instead of to you."

---

Thematic Takeaways from Order of the Phoenix

Through the Links Line segment, listeners Emily and Jennifer share their key takeaways from chapters 6 through 12 of "Order of the Phoenix". Emily draws parallels between the Daily Prophet’s information control and real-world social media dynamics, while Jennifer emphasizes themes of friendship, the introduction of Dolores Umbridge, and the unjust trial of Harry Potter.

Emily [57:55]: "The Daily Prophet is seeking to control information... reminds me a lot of how the ministry was seeking to control the public."

Jennifer [62:11]: "Dolores Umbridge... one of the most polarizing characters introduced in the series."

The hosts reflect on these insights, appreciating how the series’ themes resonate with contemporary societal issues and personal growth.

Andrew [58:27]: "It's very interesting to see how it's very interesting to see the different messages that we get out of these books as we age and reread them."

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Conclusion and Ongoing Discussions

As the episode wraps up, the hosts express gratitude for the thoughtful listener contributions and emphasize the importance of ongoing dialogue within the fandom. They tease future discussions, including character analyses and explorations of new thematic elements in the Harry Potter series.

Andrew [65:54]: "Thank you for being a supporter of Mugglecast for many years now."

Laura [66:24]: "And I'm Evelynda."

---

This episode of MuggleCast offers a rich exploration of both canonical interpretations and fan-driven theories, fostering a deeper understanding of the Harry Potter universe. Through engaging discussions and diverse listener feedback, the hosts provide a comprehensive analysis that caters to both long-time fans and newcomers alike.

Transcript

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[Andrew]

Welcome to Mugglecast, your weekly ride into the wizarding world fandom. I'm Andrew.

[Eric]

I'm Eric.

[Micah]

I'm Micah.

[Laura]

I'm Laura.

[Andrew]

And this week, raising your hand totally fine and won't land your friends in detention because we are taking your questions on order of the Phoenix and some of our other recent discussions here on Mugglecast. And joining us for today's episode is one of our Slug Club patrons, Evelynda. Hey, Evelynda. Welcome.

[Evelynda]

H. Hello. Hello. I'm so excited to be here on this episode.

[Andrew]

We're excited to have you too. Thank you so much for joining us. And we've, we've known you for a few years now. We see you pop into the Slug Club hangouts, chat there from time to time and we see in the Discord too. So it's great to have you on. Can we get your fandom id?

[Evelynda]

Yes. Okay, so my favorite book is A Footprint. My favorite movie is Sorcerer's Stone. I am a very proud and loyal Hufflepuff. I Hufflepuff till I die. And my animal morning house is pugwetchy. My patronus, oddly enough, is an aardvark. And then my all time favorite chapter is secrets of riddle.

[Andrew]

Ooh, excellent.

[Laura]

Good choice.

[Evelynda]

Grown on Me, actually.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[Evelynda]

I don't know if you guys have found this, like, by doing the chapter by chapter, but, like, we've grown up with the books, so now that we're older, you kind of see it through a different lens. And with me being a clinician, the Secrets of Riddle has so much depth to it. And when I was in grad school, I had to do, like, a case study, and I chose Voldemort. So that was a very good, like, deep dive into, you know, how he became who he was.

[Andrew]

Yeah, no, that's a.

[Laura]

That's so cool.

[Andrew]

Yeah. You mentioned your Patronus is an aardvark. I'm kind of jealous of that because I used to love Arthur, the book series and TV show as a kid. Did you like Arthur, too?

[Evelynda]

I did love Arthur. It's also one of my favorite memes. The.

[Andrew]

Oh, the fist.

[Laura]

Yeah, the fist.

[Andrew]

The clenched fist. I think a lot of us are feeling that meme right now.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Evelynda]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

All right, well, we have a lot of great emails today, and we're looking forward to getting Evelynda's feedback on all of them as well. But first, a couple of announcements. We are in the thick of the colder months season, the winter season. So please check out the mugglecast Cozy Comfy Combo Pack to stay warm this winter. And to help you stay warm further, we are offering the Cozy Comfy Combo Pack at its lowest price yet. $20 for the beanie and the socks. And only 10 of these combo packs remain. We are down to the end here, so we would love to move them. You can purchase [e-mail] we'll have a link at the top of the show notes too, so you can easily access them. The beanie and the socks, both so comfortable. Eric passed along some socks recently to me. Some extra Mugglecast socks. Not just any old socks. Definitely check those out, listeners. It's a great way to support the show. And while you're there, check out other Mugglecast merch like signed album art, mugglecast 15th anniversary T shirts, or you can just purchase the socks. But the Cozy Comfy Combo Pack is the only way you can get the beanie right now because we're down to just a few beanies left.

[Eric]

So amazing. And this weather is no joke. I have a burst pipe in my apartment building.

[Andrew]

Oh, no.

[Eric]

The coldest weather. First time. Everything's okay. But it's important to stay warm. And you know what? Just buy some extra socks. Put them on.

[Micah]

The pipe kept those socks. Clearly.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Bags of socks. I want to be clear.

[Micah]

Slip in that box. Right.

[Eric]

I want to be clear. The socks they gave Andrew were also new also. They were all there. They have not been worn by me. I'm not passing along Muggle cast merch that I have worn. I'm sorry, if I did that, we would have to charge more.

[Andrew]

I was gonna say for some people it'd be a selling point.

[Eric]

Yeah, yeah. So anyway, well, and I'm wearing the.

[Andrew]

Beanie every day, multiple times a day. It's really cold right now. Yeah, it's very comfortable. So don't miss out on that. Merch purchases help support the show. And with us flying into a new decade of Mugglecast, we could really appreciate your [e-mail] mugglecast as well. Become a member today and enjoy instant access to lots of great benefits, including two bonus episodes of Mugglecast every month. Stickers, live streams, ad free episodes. You can become a Mugglecast co host one day like Evelynda is right now. And your support goes to running this independent podcast. It helps us spend less time in the boring, terrible Muggle world and more time talking and living in the wonderful wizarding world. So thanks everybody. And with that, it's time for our Muggle mail episode. And we are going to start today with some feedback about books three and four. And then we will get into order of the Phoenix feedback.

[Micah]

Yeah, you know, sometimes Andrew, you gotta clean out the bottom of, you know, New Year, new us, we gotta clean out the bottom of the Muggle mailbag.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Refresh everything. I agree.

[Eric]

Bottom. There's 50,000 emails in there.

[Micah]

Oh, there's so many emails.

[Andrew]

So we have one voicemail this week and here it is.

[Laura]

Hey y'all, my name is Kayla. I'm a Hufflepuff from Nebraska and I just wanted to send this in because it is something I've found kind of.

[Evelynda]

Interesting in the Goblet of Fire.

[Laura]

But I think it's pretty interesting how the author wrote for there to be a champion that hangs out with each of the houses. When Fleur first gets to Hogwarts, she sits with the Ravenclaws. When Krum gets to Hogwarts, he sits with the Slytherins. Harry is obviously in Gryffindor, so it only makes sense that the champion for Hogwarts would be Cedric in Hufflepuff because the author probably was thinking it would be a good idea to have a champion in each of the houses. And I just think that's pretty interesting and wanted to share it with Y'all, thanks for listening. Bye.

[Andrew]

Thanks, Kayla.

[Laura]

I love that.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Yeah, it is. So was it purposeful? It must have been then, to have a champion in each house.

[Evelynda]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Whether unconsciously or not, the pairing of the students when they first sit with a house at Hogwarts that's sort of been predetermined by the time they get there. I remember talking about this during that chapter. Definitely it helps when you have four of anyone competing if they have the most complimentary and different personalities, which is modeled after the same four personality types that are. That make up the Hogwarts houses. So it makes sense to me.

[Micah]

It's such a great play off of our house unity conversation from last week. Thinking too. Fleur takes Roger Davies to the Yule Ball, who is also in Ravenclaw.

[Eric]

So I wonder if Victor takes Hermione, who is from Slytherin, as we all know.

[Micah]

Because I was wondering, do the students from Beauxbaton spend time with the Ravenclaws? We don't really see it, but that kind of reinforces what Kayla was saying.

[Laura]

Yeah. I feel like I remember us talking about the similarities between Beauxbaton students and Ravenclaws and Durmstrang and Slytherin and, like, why they gravitated towards each other. So. Yeah, I think you're onto something there.

[Evelynda]

Yeah. I can see them kind of having like, mutual, I don't want to say agendas in a way. And I can see them kind of like getting along and I mean, that's the whole point of the Triwizard Tournament needs to kind of foster those connections.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Well, thank you, Kayla, for sending in that voicemail. And listeners, we love hearing you. So if you have any feedback about any episode, please load up the voice memo app that's on your phone already. Record. Record a voice message. Keep it around 60 to 90 seconds, ideally, and email that to mugglecastmail.com Again, we love hearing from you, so please send in those voicemails when you have something to say. Of course, most people email us. So for the rest of the episode we will be reading some emails we received. And thanks to everybody who submitted feedback over the last couple months. As always, we love getting this feedback. It's really awesome hearing what you all think about our discussions and the Harry Potter series.

[Laura]

Our first piece of Muggle mail comes from Charlotte, who's writing about Karkaroff's true motivations. Ahoy, y'all. I've been listening to y'all for about two years. Ish. But I've gotten very behind I was listening to your episode for the Love of Chicken Tendies and had a thought. This was about the chapter in Goblet where Kargarov insults Poliakov, calling him a disgusting boy. In this episode, you were talking about how these were the school's best students that they were putting forth. But it got me thinking. What if these weren't Durmstring's best students? We know Karkaroff favors Crumb and wants him to be the champion. So what if he rigged it? Bring his worst students to ensure Crumb was selected. Just a thought. You guys are amazing. And thank you for being my Harry Potter friends. P.S. this podcast is older than me.

[Eric]

Ooh.

[Laura]

All right, Charlotte.

[Eric]

This is a lot to take in.

[Andrew]

That was really complimentary and then made me cringe a little bit. Because of us, not because of you.

[Eric]

We do not need any postscripts on any Muggle mail. Don't need it.

[Andrew]

Can do without with peace and love. Peace and love.

[Eric]

Peace and love. I think this is wonderful. And it goes away to explaining how Karkaroff feels about a kid who supposedly may also have been a champion. That that solves a problem I didn't know we had.

[Andrew]

Yeah, it seems like a great way to rig it. Just bring a lot of bad people and then your favorite who's also really good and has a good chance.

[Evelynda]

Do you think that he was kind of using him in a way for, like, his own gory inhibition? Like, almost using him away? Like if he was rigging the competition, you know, kind of like when we're too old to be in the game, we kind of focus on, like, the younger generations and kind of like get glory from through them. Kind of living through them in a way.

[Andrew]

Right. Living vicariously. I was just gonna say absolutely.

[Eric]

The relationship between Karkaroff and Crumble feels that way. What else does this disgraced Death Eater, former Death Eater turned school headmaster, really have going for him? Otherwise?

[Micah]

That was gonna be. My point is, let's not forget his backstory. Let's not forget who he is, his ambition. The fact that he is a former Death Eater certainly, I think, lends itself to what you're saying, Evelyn, to that he would certainly come into this probably more so than any of the other headmasters that we see. More so than Dumbledore, more so than Maxime wanting to win this.

[Evelynda]

Yeah. Almost garnering a legacy in a way.

[Micah]

Yeah, that's a great point. Our next email comes from Vanessa, who wants to know about Remus Lupin's condition in Prisoner of Azkaban. When Remus Lupin describes how during his werewolf transformations he bit and scratched himself, could that be interpreted as a form of self harm? Especially looking at a story through a lens of the AIDS epidemic. I know many of those affected by that epidemic did not have the best support or acceptance from others, likely leading some to have suicidal ideologies and commit self harm. Do you all think Remus Lupin scratching himself could be a representation of declining mental health and self harm as a way to relieve that? It's a very loaded question, but I.

[Eric]

Think it is clear that that could be one reading of that story.

[Andrew]

One reading is a good way to put it because I also do think werewolves, dogs, this is typical animal behavior. They will bite themselves, they will scratch themselves. But Vanessa is also pointing out during the transformation, I would think when you are transforming or after you transform, you might be a little uncomfortable in this new form that you've just taken. So you might need to kind of scratch. It's kind of like putting on a new shirt. You have to adjust it a little bit so it's fitting. Right. So, but, but I agree this is a, this is a good reading of it too. And we know, we've discussed, if not here on this show, then definitely out online, that Remus's condition is symbolic of the AIDS epidemic. So I think it is a fair read.

[Evelynda]

Yeah, I mean, I definitely think that it could be a possible interpretation, you know, self harm in a way, not to speak on this lightly. For some people it's a way to kind of alleviate emotional pain and emotional suffering and I think in combination with, I guess like animal behavior. So I don't think it's a direct one to one correlation, but there could be some hidden underlying like undertones to that based off of like his experience.

[Eric]

That's an interesting. Yeah, because Remus did not have a lot of control during that whole situation.

[Micah]

Part of me wonders too, because it's described as him biting and scratching himself. Could it have been preventative? Or he was trying to prevent the transformation from happening. He was trying to not allow himself to go from human to werewolf. I think that's also a possibility.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Micah]

But let's move on to a much more light hearted email.

[Eric]

What could be more lighthearted than Dumbledore's chocolate frog card? This message comes from Eden. Hey all, this is Eden, your 14 year old Gryffindor. By the way, Mugglecast turns 20 this year and I have an interesting. Yeah, I have an interesting idea to share with you guys. So we know Dumbledore appears on many chocolate frog cards. And in the wizarding world, pictures have consciousness and can communicate. I was thinking, what if Dumbledore uses this as a way to check up on things? For example, when Harry was on his first train ride in Sorcerer's Stone and got the chocolate frog card with Dumbledore on it, Dumbledore winks and walks out of the frame. Presumably, he goes to tell the real Dumbledore that Harry Potter has arrived on the train. Maybe. Well, maybe while good old Albus is sipping a margarita on a beach in the Bahamas, he's using chocolate frog cards to spy on people. But then again, should we really give him that much credit? Thanks so much and I freaking love y'all, while we freaking love you too, Eden.

[Laura]

I love this.

[Eric]

Yeah, yeah, this is great.

[Laura]

Especially when you think about the fact in this book when he gets kicked off the Whizzingamo, he says he the only thing he cares about is that they don't kick him off the chocolate frog cards.

[Eric]

Oh, my God. That's his lifeline. That's the only way he stays connected. Oh, man, that's like being in prison but still having Internet access. Being grounded but still being able to have Internet access.

[Laura]

Honestly, there's enormous fanfiction potential here. I just want to say, if someone's looking for an idea that could be a really fun one, and I know.

[Eric]

We never quite see it in the wizarding world, but if wizards and witches could just, like, skidoo into paintings or become painting versions of themselves, then you could have the real Dumbledore there making the rounds on his chocolate frog cards.

[Andrew]

But then I think this begs the question, does this mean that every other person on a chocolate frog card can also spy on whoever is holding the card? Or did Dumbledore just, you know, he was Dumbledore and came up with his own idea?

[Eric]

Well, think about how Phineas Nigel is black. There's at least two portraits of him that we know. One is in the headmaster's office because he used to be a headmaster, and the other is at grim old place, which Harry, Ron and Hermione take with them in her bag. And so there's only really one subject and he goes back and forth.

[Andrew]

Maybe it was part of Albus's licensing agreement. Like, you can use my face, but I have to be able to spy.

[Eric]

Or it might just be a happenstance. I mean, the funniest thing about that is when, you know, Harry's like, he's gone. And Ron just says, you can't expect him to hang around all day. He's got other appointments. Dumbledore is one of the most photographed wizards of this century.

[Micah]

I will say, I do like how Eden realized the error of her ways at the very end. And asking, should we really give Dumbledore that much credit?

[Eric]

Spying on people, invading privacy, causing security issues.

[Micah]

Yes, it does kind of seem up his alley, to be honest with you.

[Evelynda]

Yeah, another security nightmare.

[Andrew]

Oh, we got an email about security nightmare.

[Eric]

Sounds like a personal security nightmare.

[Evelynda]

I don't know how I feel about that. That's so creepy.

[Andrew]

I mean, it is. It's a fun theory though.

[Evelynda]

It is fun. I would love to see where he pops into.

[Andrew]

Yeah. All right. This next email is from Cal on the casting of Severus Snape. Hey, Mugglecast. So I was listening to the last episode about the casting of Snape. I wonder what you may think of my concern. To me, if they were to cast someone of color, it may change how Harry and James are seen. Harry initially came to Hogwarts suspecting Snape without noticeable cause. And James bullied Snape when they were children. I just don't want it to be seen as racial bias. Dumbledore, McGonagall, Sirius are characters that racial change wouldn't affect. Just curious about your thoughts on how that could change the interpretation of the series. Thanks for everything you do.

[Eric]

That's an interesting one.

[Evelynda]

I love this question.

[Andrew]

What do you think, Evelyn?

[Evelynda]

Okay, so being a person of color, I actually think that changing his race would add like, complexity to his character. And I think it kind of begs the question, like, if we don't change his race, like, who are we protecting? Because I think that. Right, like, are we protecting James reputation or are we also protecting Snapes? Making him another race kind of adds a little bit of complexity, another sense of otherness. I know, definitely growing up as a Harry Potter fan, I too have felt that otherness. And I think that this is something that other people can relate to. And it's definitely a reality for a lot of people. So I can see how it can cause, like, race, some concerns. But I also think that it can be something worth exploring.

[Andrew]

And I think in the TV series they could explain why James was bullying Snape better than maybe we see in the book. And then there won't be potential assumptions about, oh, there's just racial bias going on.

[Evelynda]

Definitely, definitely. And I mean, we don't have to assume that that's why he's boring. It could also just be a hidden undertone. But I still think that it's something worth Exploring.

[Andrew]

Yeah. And worth opening up the series to a more diverse cast because I think what you were saying, Evelynda, was that the series is very white. The Harry Potter movies were very white. They started working on that in Fantastic Beasts. We definitely saw my. More diversity and, well, even Cursed Child, but also Hogwarts Legacy, they're finally putting in place a more diverse cast that J.K. rowling should have put together to begin with.

[Evelynda]

Yeah. Like, we've come a long way. We also have to consider, like, when these books were created and then where we are now. And I think it would be unfair not to consider current. I mean, current context and culture.

[Laura]

Right. Yeah. Honestly, it would make it feel kind of dated.

[Evelynda]

Yeah.

[Laura]

If I'm being real. Like, it would be like, when was this made?

[Andrew]

And what new does the TV series add if it isn't making some bolder changes? I was talking about this when we were talking about Snape. People were like, oh, why don't they cast Adam Driver? He'd be a perfect Snape. They just wanted a continuation of Alan Rickman's portrayal.

[Laura]

Right.

[Andrew]

Take some risks. Change it up a little bit.

[Evelynda]

Yeah. Like, don't. Don't back down from a challenge.

[Eric]

Oh, there's a good line.

[Evelynda]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andrew]

Foreign.

[Evelynda]

We're so done with New Year.

[Laura]

New you this year it's more youe on Bumble.

[Evelynda]

More of you shamelessly sending playlists, especially that one filled with show tunes.

[Laura]

More of you finding Geminis because you.

[Evelynda]

Know you always like them. More of you dating with intention because you know what you want and you know what, we love that for you.

[Laura]

Someone else will too.

[Evelynda]

Be more you this year and find them on Bumble. I think you're on mute. Workday starting to sound the same.

[Laura]

I think you're on mute.

[Eric]

Find something that sounds better for your career on LinkedIn.

[Evelynda]

With LinkedIn job collections, you can browse.

[Laura]

Curated collections by relevant industries and benefits.

[Andrew]

Like Flexpto or hybrid workplaces so you.

[Eric]

Can find the right job for you.

[Laura]

Get [e-mail] jobs finding where you fit.

[Andrew]

LinkedIn knows how.

[Evelynda]

Our next one comes from Kim regarding Petunia and Vernon's upbringing. Hi there, Mugglecast friends, I'm so glad I found you. I started listening when you were doing chapter by chapter for Goblet of Fire and have been listening ever since. I believe he recently talked about whether or not we should feel sorry for Petunia. I think, yes, we should feel sorry for her because I think there's a possibility that she is abused by Vernon or at least she Fears him. He's the one always yelling and dishing out the punishments and threats. Maybe she has to keep the house clean because that is what Vernon expects. Like in the movie Sleeping with the Enemy. Petunia comes from a kind family, seen in Lily. Vernon comes from bullies, as shown in Aunt March. It took a lot for Petunia to stand up to Vernon and allow Harry to stay in later books. I'm not saying she's innocent in her behavior to Harry, but maybe there is more to her story.

[Andrew]

I think this is a really good observation.

[Eric]

I will say there are times in the book when Vernon is fearful of Petunia and what Petunia's reaction to things might be. Um, the perfect read on how their relationship works and what it looks like probably doesn't exist, but it's definitely a very interesting pairing that I don't find myself often thinking about.

[Micah]

I'm curious what makes them tick, given your background, Evelynda, what you think of this dynamic, this relationship?

[Evelynda]

Yeah, I think that the clips that we see don't tell the whole story. So I think we would need to know more about. I mean, we know a little bit more about Petunia's motivation, but I see glimpses of perhaps maybe a little bit of emotional abuse. Perhaps. But I think that I would have to know a little bit more if that makes sense of their relationship dynamic. But I can definitely see it a little bit.

[Micah]

I think we've talked a lot about how Vernon really normalized Petunia's life after Lily going off and getting into Hogwarts and Petunia being rejected and then of course, everything that happened with Lily and James. But it doesn't mean that Vernon isn't abusive, as you were saying, verbally, emotionally towards her. Though it does seem like the abuse that he shells out is primarily directed in Harry's direction. And I think it's because he represents everything that Vernon stands against and was raised in a way we see it in his sister in Aunt Marge was raised very much the same way. You know, anything that doesn't fall in line with his point of view and his version of normal is considered to be less than. And he does everything in his power to ensure that. Harry has an extremely rough upbringing as a result.

[Laura]

Yeah, because he's resentful. Right. Like, it was very clear that he didn't want anything to do with that side of Petunia's family. And then having this kid dropped on his doorstep in the middle of the night after his parents were killed was like, I don't even know if that was an outcome that Vernon could have been paranoid about. Like, who thinks. Who thinks about that? Right?

[Micah]

So I think that he. There's probably a part of him that feels like he's going to get revealed to the rest of the world, because how much convincing did it likely take initially from Petunia that this world actually existed, that magic was a real thing? Because he seems like somebody that would never concede to that.

[Eric]

That's an image. That's an interesting question. I think maybe that's how they managed to bond over their dislike of, like, Harry. Vernon doesn't like the situation of having to raise this other kid. And Petunia's like, well, he's family, but also, we don't need to treat him as such because I hated my sister and resented her. And so there's this world. It's absolutely crazy. But I promise I'm not crazy. I don't like it. And you don't have to like it either. And then he's like, oh, this sounds good. You know, let's abuse this child.

[Laura]

How long do you think it took Petunia to tell Vernon about Lily and the Wizarding World? Like, I just don't see Petunia sharing that on a first date.

[Eric]

There was a fun question, like, how long were they dating? Because I think wasn't there. In assorted additional materials, the author wrote that Lily and James probably met Petunia and Vernon at least once. And the. It didn't go well. And the impression that Vernon got distinctly was that James was looking down at him and. Or made fun of him. I think that that was written somewhere that that happened. And. And that's always kind of been my head. Canon is like, oh, there's sort of an elitist kind of edge to this relationship where Vernon resents the fact that James. And, you know, James would kind of have an air of supremacy about the situation, especially if Lily, for instance, told him in advance, he, they don't really like wizardkind. James would see that as a challenge.

[Andrew]

So in writing on potternomore.com now, Harry Potter.com the author did write that Petunia and Vernon met James and the couples fell out. Vernon attempted to patronize James by suggesting that wizards live on unemployment benefits and grew angry when James told him of the solid gold his parents had in the wizarding bank. Green guts.

[Eric]

Yeah, because of all that shampoo, all that Slick Easy's hair potion.

[Evelynda]

You can definitely see how they align because it comes from a place of insecurity for both of Them. Right. Like I'm trying to outshine you because of my own deficiencies. And I think that's the one thing that Petunia and Vernon have in common. That's the one thing that kind of connects them.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Wow.

[Micah]

Yeah. Lunar Lichen in the Discord said something similar. Evelinda, they said, or Vernon loves Petunia very much. That when they met he knew how hurt Petunia is because of her sister. So he's become overprotective of her.

[Andrew]

It's such a fascinating dynamic.

[Eric]

Apparently there's many ways to read this relationship.

[Laura]

There's.

[Evelynda]

So that's why I said I would definitely need to know more because there's so many ways to interpret it. Like, I don't know if I necessarily see it as overprotection, as more so like, like sometimes in those type of relationships we fall in line and we dissociate and we try to put up false pretenses and we get so far into it you just kind of keep moving along with it. So I don't know. I would have to know more.

[Andrew]

Here's how the revelation went down. Laura. She confessed the truth during a tear stained date in Vernon's dark car as they sat overlooking the chip shop where Vernon had just bought them a post cinema snack. Vernon, as Petunia had expected, was deeply shocked. However, he told Petunia solemnly that he would never hold it against her that she had a freak for a sister. And Petunia threw herself upon him in such violent gratitude that he dropped his battered sausage.

[Eric]

I didn't know this was a whole damn chapter of a book.

[Micah]

In a totally different direction.

[Eric]

Did you say Harry Potter dot com, Andrew? So it's no longer Wizarding World.

[Andrew]

Yeah, we talked about this. It was Pottermore and then WizardingWorld.com and now it's Harry Potter.com.

[Laura]

You know, it's really sad about this. This almost makes me wonder if Petunia loves Vernon because he hates her sister and like he chooses Petunia over her sister. And Petunia kind of feels like she spent her entire upbringing being second best to Lily.

[Eric]

Like, oh, so she's settling because.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Eric]

Well that's interesting.

[Evelynda]

I, I can see that. Almost like a relationship of convenience. Yeah. And she tolerates him because he chose her. It's the one person in her life who makes her a priority in a way.

[Eric]

Now consider that they're basically Harry's parents, like you know, for intents and purposes, and Dudley's mom and dad and ask why that family is. Has had Issues.

[Laura]

All right, well, we are moving into Order of the Phoenix feedback now, starting with Iris, who wrote in about preparing for Harry's arrival at Grimald Place. Iris says, hi, y'all. I was just listening to episode 679, the Order of Phoenix. You were discussing why the adults didn't prepare for Harry's arrival and what to say to him about the status of it all. I was thinking maybe they did. And they've been bickering about it in their meetings for the last three days since they knew Harry would be joining them at Grim Old Place. But they couldn't come up with anything they could all agree on. This would explain some of the tension in the room and the way Molly and Sirius suddenly explode. Love the show. Thanks as always for the discussions, Iris from Germany, Hashtag Hufflepuff Pride.

[Andrew]

I love this theory because it's clearly a dysfunctional family at Grimwald Place. And yeah, they are unprepared because they couldn't all come to an agreement on how to handle Harry once he arrived. Makes sense to me.

[Eric]

They almost couldn't even come to an agreement to be civil to each other.

[Andrew]

Yeah, no, thanks, Iris.

[Eric]

Thank you.

[Micah]

We also heard from Ben, who had a question about Seamus Finnegan. He says, hey, Mugglecasters, based on the episode where you discussed chapter 11 of Order of the Phoenix, I'd just like to ask ye about Seamus Finnegan. In England, you go to secondary school at 11, but here in Ireland you go about 13 or around there. So if Seamus lives in Ireland, what was the excuse they gave to his primary school to say he was no longer going to attend? What do all Irish Hogwarts attendees do about this? Love to hear your thoughts on this, Ben.

[Andrew]

I'm wondering, sure, he's Irish, but I'm wondering if he moved to England with his family and thus, you know, was moving through school differently. I tried to look this up on his Wikipedia. I didn't really see any information about when he may have moved.

[Eric]

Yes, it's all on napkins somewhere. You gotta. You look at from the Elephant House.

[Laura]

Wasn't it confirmed that before kids go to Hogwarts, they're usually homeschooled?

[Eric]

I think. Well, maybe wizard children are.

[Laura]

Yeah, no, that's what I mean. Before they go to Hogwarts.

[Evelynda]

Yeah. So maybe there wasn't a backstory needed if he was homeschooled.

[Eric]

Well, it's interesting because to Laura's point, I think too, like, how do you just. Do you disappear from the community? Like, what if the parents are still active Members of the community, their kid is just not. I mean, their kid is very clearly not home. And then also not being taught in any of the schools nearby. Do they always say, like, oh, you know, my son went to boarding school somewhere?

[Laura]

Probably. I mean, that's kind of what the Dursleys do with Harry. They say they're sending him to Saint Brutus's Whatever.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Laura]

But also, like, I would think that wizard families and communities, I would imagine that they're not really invested in the local community that way. Like, they're not paying property taxes. Right. So, like, there wouldn't. There's not, like, child protective services looking for wizard children.

[Eric]

I just think they. They can fund the. The tax man every time he comes to the door to collect.

[Evelynda]

Although there should be CPS and some of these wizarding families. I'm just.

[Eric]

Shouldn't there be. Yes.

[Evelynda]

The amount of times I would have filed a report on the Dursleys. I mean, they're not wizarding. But the. The many reports I probably would have filed. I'm just saying.

[Eric]

Okay, well, now let's talk about some other definitely very functional families, namely that of the Blacks. This one's from Katie. Hey, Mugglecast. During the most recent chapter discussion, the most noble and Ancient House of Black, I thought about something that left me frustrated. Throughout the story. When we hear about extended family, they're almost always dead. The Potters, the Evans, etc. When looking at the tapestry, Sirius said that Andromeda was his favorite cousin. She's alive and well. Not only that, her only offspring is ever present in his home. Why isn't Sirius connecting more with this part of his family? Especially since his only remaining best friend is getting cozy. Is he not allowed to go visit the Tonks family? Are they not a safe house yet? Why couldn't Andromeda come to Grimmauld Place? Feels like another example of Dumbledore isolating a troubled person instead of helping provide the support they need. Would love your thoughts. Love the show, Katie. Would Dumbledore do that? Can we really, you know, suspect him of doing something like that?

[Laura]

Well.

[Eric]

Oh, really? I think so.

[Laura]

Oh, sorry. What I meant to say is, like, I can't see Dumbledore doing this. Like, he doesn't. He does not take that additional, like, half step to say, like, oh, what could I do to make this person more comfortable right now?

[Eric]

Oh, right. Yeah. What I thought of while reading this was that Sirius is still not the word of his being a good guy actually is not out yet. So maybe, like, in certain Circles it would be certainly among the order it would be. And we know Andromeda's in the order at least as of like later. But I wonder if maybe Sirius didn't reach out to his favorite aunt because it was there was controversy or maybe just because he's been so focused on getting Grim up place ready. But I agree. I'd love to have them hang out and have tea together, especially because Tonks see Sirius on a regular basis.

[Andrew]

I also think this could very well be something that is happening off page. It's something we would get on WizardingWorld.com and we also know Sirius wants to spend a lot of time with his godson. So I think there's a couple of different answers here, but yes, it does. It does seem like this should have been addressed, especially when, like Katie said, Sirius is telling Harry that Andromeda was his favorite cousin. So why don't you keep in touch, yo? Maybe they write to each other.

[Micah]

Yeah, I feel like given how isolated Sirius was, this would have been a nice way to make him feel a little bit better.

[Eric]

Definitely go see your cousin.

[Andrew]

Maybe Dumbledore was planning on giving him permission next book.

[Micah]

Oops.

[Laura]

You know, I can also see how maybe it's hard for Sirius to try and make those connections. We have to remember all these fond memories he has of very specific people in his family are from quite a while ago when he was a good bit younger. And he's been through a lot in that time. He's probably a completely different person now than he was before he went into Azkaban. So I could see it being really tough to like, pick up relationship with fam. Relationships with family members who were close to you before all of that happened to you.

[Andrew]

Yeah, that's true.

[Evelynda]

I mean, the outside world goes on without you. So I can only imagine, like the challenge it would be to reconnect, see how people are different. So many things change. I know, that's a sad thought left behind.

[Andrew]

A great point though.

[Eric]

Don't mind the sound of my breaking heart.

[Evelynda]

I mean, also too, like, I can't imagine all of the oversight of. There is so much in the air at Grimwald Place. So many unsaid things, so many feelings. So many people are going through different things. It's hard to keep track of everything. So kind of like what Laura was saying, like, I doubt someone is thinking of that or thinking of comforting him or what would make him feel better.

[Eric]

You know, here's an interesting addendum from Lunar Lycan who says Andromeda is not supposed to show her face before Harry sees Bellatrix, otherwise he will be conflicted. You remember this happens from the other direction when Harry finally meets Andromeda and she looks like Bellatrix and he's like wait, wait a minute. That face. But it's attached to a nice person.

[Andrew]

All right, well, we are going to regroup after discussing all these feelings and when we come back we're going to talk about our treatment of Arthur. We'll be right back. All right, so Marta has some thoughts on our feelings Feelings on Arthur in recent episodes hi Mugglecasters, I'm writing for the first time as I usually listen on the run and can't remember all the things I wanted to tell you. I'm now stuck at home with COVID and enjoy some quiet time when someone else tackles my class of 257 year olds. Well, glad you're getting a break, Marta. Even when, yeah, you're battling Covid. So what I wanted to share is that you have been much too harsh on Arthur in the last episode. I get it that it can help when you are prone to anxiety to have practice runs of things, but not everyone needs those practice runs. I couldn't even imagine having a wedding rehearsal. I hate rehearsing things. It stresses me out more. I actually reread the chapter and Arthur was giving really assuring, really reassuring vibes. Yes, he was checking the map a lot, but who isn't if they are traveling on public transport in a new place or rarely. Harry helping him with the money was surely a planned distraction so he would stop thinking about the hearing for a moment. They were at the Ministry super early and everything went really smoothly until the hearing got rescheduled of course. But that wasn't Arthur's fault. Maybe it's my age or my upbringing in an Eastern Europe block country in the 80s, but I often think you exaggerate the security issues of the magical world.

[Eric]

What?

[Andrew]

Being a wizard or a witch comes with risks. Just like being a Muggle teenager. You can't change this. You need your share of disappointments, worrying, stressing and taking risks. I speak as a teacher and a mom of two nearly teenagers. Hogwarts is actually quite well protected. Sure the security fails many times, but remember it is wartime or the years that directly precede the war and you can't protect everyone or predict every scenario in such times. Love listening to you guys and sometimes disagreeing quietly. I need to get my daughter, a huge Harry Potter fan too hooked. It would be good to exchange thoughts with her. Yes Marta, please tell Your daughter about us.

[Laura]

Oh, yeah. I like this.

[Andrew]

Everybody be nice. Marta has Covid right now.

[Eric]

Oh, right.

[Andrew]

We don't want to stress her out.

[Eric]

More 10 days from now. Right back again.

[Micah]

Well, this was the episode. Oh, God.

[Evelynda]

I was just gonna say she's in a covet haze. She doesn't know what she.

[Andrew]

Oh, no, no.

[Eric]

That's so forgiving.

[Andrew]

It's so brain fog.

[Eric]

I. I have serious respect. This is not a joke. I have serious respect for anyone that thinks we overstate something and tells it to us. So that's great.

[Micah]

Yeah. Well, and I was gonna say that this was the episode where mostly I criticized Arthur. So by now, hopefully Marta's Covid is long past. And I, I do love the fact that she says she loves listening but quietly disagreeing. I think that's kind of the whole point of doing what we do. And I just don't think it would have been fair to analyze that chapter and not criticize some of the things that Arthur was doing, given that he is the adult in the situation.

[Eric]

I think it was a perfectly fair question. I don't think we were too mean to him, you know, like, hey, couldn't there have been a little more prep? But I also see this perspective too, and maybe Harry needs those, his near death experiences to keep his heart pumping. Yeah, yeah.

[Laura]

Well, and at the end of the day, it's all a dialogue, right? Like, yeah, even. I mean, on this panel, we disagree with each other all the time. So.

[Eric]

No, we don't. Yeah, but, but that's, but, but to your point, Laura, like, that's what it is, a dialogue. And that's also why we do these Muggle mail episodes.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Micah]

So, yeah, these are a lot of good points.

[Eric]

It is just funny. It's funny to have a few points like that. Like, Hogwarts is not overly a security nightmare. Arthur Weasley was not lazy.

[Andrew]

And you need security nightmares to instill some fear in these kids and teach them some lessons. I actually kind of agree with that. It's like a kid doesn't know what pain is until he, you know, trips and falls or touches a knife or something.

[Eric]

You know, you got your bike before you.

[Andrew]

Right on the point about Arthur, I did see this, this theory brought up somewhere right after we had recorded this episode that Mart is referring to. And the theory was that the reason he's acting so floored by the Muggle world all the time is to make Harry feel more at home about joining the wizarding world. Like, they're both entering these new spaces and that helps Harry feel more at home. I thought that was really sweet.

[Evelynda]

Oh, I love that.

[Andrew]

Right.

[Evelynda]

Just trying new things.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Evelynda]

I mean.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Evelynda]

Oh, and I do agree with the resilience component. Right. Like, we do need to expose ourselves to like, challenges. However, Hogwarts is still a security nightmare.

[Eric]

Look, there's. Yeah, there's a little bit of risky behavior and then there's mortal danger and the kids are plunged into mortal danger a lot more often than you would think that they should be.

[Laura]

Yeah. And I will say what I appreciate about this email is the perspective that it offers too because I know when we're, when we're talking about security nightmare, a lot of that is very tongue in cheek. Like we're having fun with it and we're not like actually advocating for Hogwarts to be bulldozed and shut down and everything. But I feel like it is really reminiscent of the time in which we're discussing these books and these issues because we gotta remember these books were coming out in the 90s. We know the timeline took place, starts in the 80s with Lillian James and goes through the 90s with Harry and friends being at school. And we should just think about how much more dangerous things were when we were kids. Like think about the stuff we were allowed to get into. Like it was a lot more common for kids in our age group to be like autonomous during the day. Like especially in the summer. We would go out and we would hang with our friends and we would go wherever it was we wanted to go and it wasn't a big deal. No cell phones, but yeah, no cell phones. No means of contacting our parents.

[Andrew]

Like if we were out, we were gone.

[Evelynda]

Yeah. Until the street lights came on.

[Eric]

My dad talks about playing as a kid in a pile of like rubble from a factory. And there was mercury metal, which is like a heavy metal that's very toxic, just open like from broken thermometers or whatever. Like, you know. And he's playing with it. Like it honestly explains a lot. But yeah, I think there's also, there's a point where it's supposed to be comical. It's supposed to be a security nightmare because that's the joke and the humor of the series and the adventure is that. Oh no, Aries. So there is that element. But I think the, what we were going for, I think in the early days when this whole security nightmare thing was, was picking, gaining steam. Five or six years ago, we just heard that clip on the last time Turner. I think it was that as an adult now we See how much more danger there really was versus when we had the rose colored glasses of this is just a fun place to go to school. That said, none of us are parents. And so to have Marta write in and be like, you know, as a, as a mom of teens, you gotta let them have dangers. Like, that's the door swinging the other way going, maybe we're, maybe we are overreacting.

[Micah]

But I also think too that this email and then the Iris email, it shows that the adults in the series are also fallible. And I don't know that necessarily on a first read of this series and when we're first analyzing this, that that's something that you pick up on. Right? We're adults now, so as adults we can kind of see those same missteps that Arthur is making or that Molly and Sirius and the other members of the Order are making in not preparing for Harry to show up. But they're just as fallible as the rest of us.

[Evelynda]

That's a great point. And I definitely think maybe the kids can see that too. I mean, I do remember, like even in our own lives, when you come to a point, you realize your parents aren't perfect, right? Yeah, yeah, it's right around that age too.

[Andrew]

Well, we have another email now and we're asking Evelynda to read this one. It is a lengthy one, Evelynda, and.

[Micah]

If you thought the last one was critical, I know.

[Eric]

Oh my goodness, this is good. This is healthy for us. The blood is pounding.

[Evelynda]

Okay, all right, so this one comes from neasolady on episode 689. After listening to Mugglecast for ages, I was moved to write by several comments from the episode in parentheses. Sorry. On the topic of house unity, remember that many classes include students from multiple houses. If professors wanted to goose up their unity, they would force their students to partner up with members of a different house and their classes. Even if they didn't do that, spending time with those other House members several hours a week in class seems like a prime opportunity for people to connect, work together. Just an aside on this topic. I'm thinking of the best and worst matches of houses for class. The Slytherins often pair with Gryffindor, which makes total sense. I imagine pairing Slytherins with Hufflepuffs might lead to some very tense classroom situations. Unfortunately, I can't see Harry either objecting to the way Fred and George experiment on younger students, or telling Ron and Hermione about the money he gave Fred and George remember first under what circumstances he gave the money Harry won the Triwizard Tournament that both rigged for that was both rigged for him and led to the death of another student. He feels the money is tainted and he doesn't need it. Far from believing he's done a noble thing by giving his friends Steve money for their business, he's inoculating himself and the money against what it stands for. He's ashamed to have the money and glad to be rid of it. Telling Ron and Hermione seems out of character for Harry and also brings back all the houses surrounding how the money came to him in the first place. That's not somewhere Harry wants to go, especially at the beginning of the Order of the Phoenix. Also, the only way I can see it occurring to Harry to address the use of first years as test subjects would be for him to go directly to Fred and George. Hey mate, maybe go easy on the testing when you don't know the risk. Okay, what did Harry's character or past actions provide? Any evidence that he would, depending on your point of view, narc on his friends or seek counsel from say a teacher about anything? Finally, Ron the prefect. I agree that Dumbledore gave him the job to help him grow. However, with so much else at Hogwarts, there's no guidance on how to do the job and certainly none on how to get people your own age and younger to listen to what you have to say. Maybe every prefix should have. Should have a Prefect from the previous year as a buddy or a guide. No, that makes too much sense. Never mind.

[Laura]

Love the show.

[Andrew]

That's great. Yeah, like a mentor. I like that idea. Well and I love the point too that Harry won the Triwizard Tournament winnings but since it was rigged and it led to the death of Cedric, he feels that the money is tainted and that he doesn't need it. So that was a really good point there. All good points. Really appreciate the feedback.

[Eric]

Yeah, yeah.

[Andrew]

All right, well now we have some feedback we received on social media. Clara said hot take. There's a good case for Harry deserving prefect. Part of being a leader is not being afraid to be assertive and stand up for the little guy. Harry does that more than anyone starting in book one when he stands up for Neville versus Malfoy. Oh, real fish chai, something like that. Said I loved the coverage but find you treat serious very unfairly. He was unfairly in prison for 12 years without a trial, lost his best friends and then had to be on the run for a year and now is cooped up in listening to Snake teasing Him while being worried about Harry. He never had a proper chance at coping and healing. So Molly's treatment and comments were way out of line and awful. And now this interesting observation from Jennifer. I heard Hogwarts flying lessons described as equivalent to horse riding lessons at posh boarding schools. Making Quidditch like polo and only those who can afford brooms slash horses can compete. I like it.

[Eric]

This is recent that this idea like was brought to us about how sort of exclusive it is and really loving the discomfort that that brings thinking about it.

[Evelynda]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

It's so unfair that you can have an advantage in the game by having a better brew like we see Lucius by all the Slytherins. The brooms.

[Eric]

Yeah. This is like one of the newest emotions I felt about these books that I've read so many times. So I'm like really loving it. I'm like, oh, Quidditch is problematic.

[Andrew]

And finally, Jenna W. Said, have you discussed that the wizarding world only has a 5th grade math and reading education? Sure, they can fly a broom, but who balances the books?

[Eric]

What books just make more books. Do we need more goblins? Yeah. Oh, right, good point. Well, that's the math side books thing to other races.

[Andrew]

What about reading? Yeah, maybe there's some extended reading courses. What are those called?

[Eric]

Newspapers have picture books or pictures so they don't move. Yeah, they'll talk to you too.

[Andrew]

It'd be cool if you can point your wind at like a book or the Daily Prophet and be like, read this to me.

[Eric]

Oh yeah, like the cow says. And then you point your wine.

[Laura]

Yeah, I feel like something like that must exist.

[Evelynda]

Could you program it to play different voices as it reads?

[Andrew]

Oh, that would be cool.

[Laura]

Yeah, it'd be a good idea. I mean it feels like an accessibility thing. Like just.

[Eric]

Yeah, there's.

[Laura]

Yeah, I don't know why they wouldn't have it.

[Eric]

Audio bookicus or something.

[Laura]

All right, well now we are going to move into our links line which is our newest benefit on Patreon where we ask ask a question specifically for our slug club level patrons every week to feature their answers on the show. Thank you so much to everyone who supports [e-mail] Mugglecast for answering this week's question which is about Yalls biggest takeaways from chapters 6 through 12 of Order of the Phoenix. We want to know if you have any additional takeaways that maybe we haven't talked about on the show. Anything that you think we might have completely Mr. Glossed over. So I'm going to Go ahead and dive in with Emily's response here. Emily says my biggest takeaway has been the relevance to real life, in particular the way the Daily Prophet is seeking to control information. As silly as it may sound, TikTok is a major source of news and information for a lot of people. And the recent, although brief, ban reminds me a lot of how the ministry was seeking to control the public. Even More so when TikTok came back and a message was shown thanking a man who wasn't even president yet. On a separate note, owls and all the teachers warning kids about them definitely reminds me of preparing for state testing as a teacher. Great call outs there. Yeah. Yeah, the TikTok stuff feels. To be honest with you, the timing of Order of the Phoenix right now is just like Chef's Kiss.

[Eric]

I thought it was good last time we did this book. It's even better, worse now.

[Andrew]

And this is why I personally, I think I speak for everyone when I say this is why we enjoy doing chapter by chapter again, because we're talking about these books and how they relate to our present day lives as adults in this current world that we live in. So it's just very interesting to see how it's very interesting to see the different messages that we get out of these books as we age and reread them.

[Evelynda]

Honestly, it just sits too close to home, but it just shows how we can apply cultural context to how we interpret the books now. Just gives it a deeper meaning.

[Eric]

Yeah, it's the mark of a wide enough the world needed to be wide enough to begin with, or the books needed to be just deep enough to facilitate this type of thing. But they are and they have been. And so the fact that we go back to this and, you know, 20 years later and still are finding things speaks to the quality and the depth of the source material. Here is, Here is a message on our links line from Rachel, who says my biggest takeaway has to do with the Hogwarts education system and how we don't actually see much teaching. There is no I do, we do, you do. From what we can see, I assume that's a teacher thing. Nor is there corrective instruction. Maybe that's more Standard in the UK, especially in the early 2000s, for professors to talk at students rather than to them, but it doesn't seem like a healthy learning environment. We see McGonagall and Sprout model how to do things in Lupin, but that may be it. Loving the deep dive coverage and looking more forward to each new episode. So is that A teacher thing that I do. We do.

[Micah]

You do maybe in the UK it is.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Eric]

What strikes me is that I did my first year of college abroad in New Zealand which is like also a British style of education. And it was all lecture based. Like nearly all of it was go in this room, sit for an hour, you know, and if the teacher was good you would get notes that were you were going to be tested on. But it was a totally different style than what I'd had up to that point. And so I wonder if it isn't in fact, as Rachel is suggesting that Hogwarts and the more British style is a lot more of that. Maybe dry in the wrong hands. Nevertheless, like teachers talking at you instead of to you.

[Micah]

It feels like it builds a little bit off of what we were talking about last week too with Snape and his approach to teaching students. And I know I hit on him pretty hard saying that I didn't think that he was a very good teacher. So Rachel proves my point. Anyway, Jennifer is going to bring us home. She says my biggest takeaways from chapter 6 through 12 include the themes of friendship, the introduction of Dolores Umbridge and the unfairness of the entire trial of Harry. While Harry was rightfully angry and upset by the injustice of his expulsion and being left in the dark of what is happening in the wizarding world I feel that Dumbledore showed more confidence in Harry. Right after the Triwizard Tournament, Harry felt isolated from Ron and Hermione and was jealous of the time they had spent without him. The expulsion and the thought of losing his one true home loomed over him. It takes some time for him to overcome his feelings but Ron and Hermione stick by him now. Dolores Umbridge, what a character. She may be equally as evil as Lord Voldemort and she isn't even a Death Eater. She's the sneakiest wizard in the books. Definitely one of the most polarizing characters introduced in the series. The trial in front of the entire Wizengamo was so over the top as to be absurd. Why did the Ministry see fit to intimidate a 15 year old kid? It was underaged magic. Blowing up Aunt Marge had bigger implications than the Patronus. Dudley knew Harry was a wizard. Aunt Marge did not. Just wanted to say that. Your chapter by chapter coverage has been great. Thank you.

[Andrew]

Thanks, Jennifer.

[Eric]

Yeah, I loved hearing that. Similarly, the listener that wrote in and said that she started hearing us during our chapter by chapter of Goblet of Fire. That was so recently. Yeah, People are still finding us and they still find what we do warms.

[Andrew]

Our hearts after all this time. Yeah. And I think reading some of Jennifer's thoughts reminds me that, you know, getting back to a point I was making, when we get older, I think some of these things that Jennifer was bringing up outrage us a lot. As we get older, it's like, well, I'm an adult now. I can't imagine being this way to a child. Whereas when we were a child, maybe we could have expected it more simply because we didn't know what it was like to be an adult. So now we've kind of seen both, we've lived both sides of this experience as a reader at least. Right.

[Eric]

We're looking backwards at these adults in the books going, that's not how you adult.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Eric]

As if we know, but like we have more of a foothold on it than we used to.

[Andrew]

Right. And how we would, we like to think how we, we know how we would treat children. And it's better than how Harry and company are being treated in this book and other books like with Snape too.

[Micah]

But that does it for the feedback. Always enjoy these episodes.

[Andrew]

Yeah, it's fun to get everybody's feedback. And thanks, Micah, for rounding up the feedback. And thank you listeners for submitting so much great feedback. Even if we didn't read yours today on air, we do read it all behind the scenes. And like I said, we do love receiving and reading all of it. And don't forget concerning the links line, the little segment we just did there. You can participate in that benefit every week by becoming a [e-mail] mugglecast it's one of many perks on our Patreon and your support is a huge help. And if you have any feedback about today's discussions or any future chapter by chapter discussions, you can contact us by emailing or sending a voice memo recorded on your phone to mugglecastmail.com and next week we'll get back to chapter by chapter. We'll dive into order of The Phoenix Chapter 13 detention with Dolores Quizzage is taking a break this week. It'll be back next week. Check out our other weekly podcasts, what the Hype and Millennial, for more pop culture and real world talk from the four Mugglecasters coming soon. On what the Hype, we'll discuss the newest season of Outlander and talk about cozy video games. And over on Millennial, we're discussing the early moves by the Trump administration and discussing things we were told as kids that turned out to be Lies. Food pyramid. Anyone remember the classic food pyramid?

[Eric]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Laura]

Or being told that if you swallowed gum, it was going to stay in your stomach for seven years?

[Eric]

Yeah, I'm still waiting for that gum tree. Free gum, everybody.

[Andrew]

These shows are brought to you by Muggles like you. Listener support is the only reason we've been able to podcast for 20 years. And there's many great ways to help us out. I brough up a couple of them today. Mugglemillennial.etsy.com is where you can find the Mugglecast Beanie and Socks in a combo pack for their lowest price yet. Let us help you stay warm this winter and you'll also be helping the show. Apple Podcast subscribers can sign up for mugglecast Gold, which gets you instant access to ad free and early releases of Mugglecast every week, plus two bonus Mugglecast installments every month. And I've mentioned the Patreon a couple times, so I won't get into the details again. But Eva, Linda, thank you so much for being a supporter of Mugglecast for many years now. And thank you so much for all of your thoughtful analysis today.

[Evelynda]

Thank you guys for having me. This has been. This has truly been something special. So thank you.

[Andrew]

Thank you. Well, listeners, if you enjoy the show and think other Muggles would too, tell a friend about the show and we would appreciate a five star review in your favorite podcast app that helps us spread the word as well. Last but not least, visit michaelcast.com for transcripts, social media links, our full episode archive, our favorite episodes and more. All right, thanks everybody for listening. I'm Andrew.

[Eric]

I'm Eric.

[Micah]

I'm Micah.

[Laura]

I'm Laura.

[Evelynda]

And I'm Evelynda.

[Andrew]

Bye, everyone.

[Laura]

Bye, y'all.

[Micah]

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[Laura]

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[Micah]

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[Evelynda]

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[Evelynda]

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[Eric]

What if I once saw Bigfoot?

[Micah]

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[Evelynda]

Now that's what I'm talking about.

[Micah]

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[Andrew]

Must start and file an app by 218.